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What I've Learnt - Don Henry · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, finally, the Prime Minister has confirmed he'll attend the Glasgow Climate Summit, where 200 leaders from across the globe will meet on climate change.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not a new site that is ignoring this pivotal meeting taking place in three weeks' time.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone everywhere is talking about climate change as we edge closer to the climate summit in Glasgow, leading up to one of the world's most critical summits in Paris, the COP26 Conference.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So what's all this about?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's confusing and overwhelming for many.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: With groups like Mission Zero, a humble Australian non-profit that few everyday punders have heard of, expecting an eye-watering$40 trillion from all over the world, they, like many, are banking on a net zero economy, with the number of businesses backing sustainable investments tripling in the past five years.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even most AFL players have signed on to the cool-down climate change grid in support of zero emissions.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this week a daunting report suggested the Sydney's Opera House and the Australian Centre for Contemporary Art in Melbourne could become virtual islands if sea levels continue to rise.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one person at the absolute forefront of the climate change debate and revolution is Don Henry A.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: M., the Enterprise Professor of Environmentalism at the Melbourne Sustainable Society, Melbourne University.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: He spent a lifetime dedicated to the protection of our planet.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's as former head of the Australian Conservation Foundation or in his current pivotal roles as Professor of Environmentalism or as an international board member of the Climate Reality Project chaired by the Honore Al Gore, former Vice President of the United States, Don is at the forefront.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Concern about climate change is at record high levels with 75% of Australians worried.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the highest level of concern since Climate of the Nation began tracking.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Don and his team's global mission is spearheading the critical drive to zero emissions by 2050.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as a trained climate reality leader myself, the Climate Reality Project is an initiative that helps equip and educate people to inform others about the threat of climate change.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So Don's current engagement programme is to support the implementation of the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, negotiated by the global community in December 2015.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's working with researchers, government, civil society, global institutions, and businesses to provide leadership in the fields of environmental policy development, reform, climate change and sustainability.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So as our world rests on this precipice of an inexplicable climate reality, educating, informing and engaging are key to catapulting change and elevating Australia's position on the global stage in the desperate fight to protect our planet.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: The government's long-term emissions reduction strategy, the centrepiece of Australia's climate offerings ahead of the COP26 summit, will support traditional export sectors with a focus on low emissions technologies, international partnerships, developing clean hydrogen and ammonia export industries, no new taxes, supporting electric vehicle uptake and delivering reliable and cheap energy and limiting intervention in market and consumer choices.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it seems the changes are coming slowly but surely as the world wakes up to an irrefutable, powerful and terrifying reality that there is no longer a choice but to embrace 2050 zero emission.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it seems clear Mother Nature has been seriously disturbed and we need to urgently repair, renew, rejuvenate, and recalibrate.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: We need to heal her.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Don, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thrilled to have you on board.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Deborah, great to be here with you.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, Don, can I start?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much to unpack here because there is literally not a news day that we don't have some sort of update on what's happening.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, can you give me some insight?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, thanks in part to pressure from your Road to Paris supporters and climate activists worldwide, 195 countries signed the Paris Agreement, creating the first truly international framework for concerted action to stop climate change.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: But now our work continues to ensure leaders live up to their commitments and make the promise of the Paris Agreement a reality.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, simply, what are the five most important steps to get Australia to Paris?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, um, Deborah, I thought I might mention one thing first, because you're right, these are tough, big issues.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Why is the issue an international issue and why is the urgency there?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So very simply, I mean, the air we breathe is the same air all around the planet.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So pollution, greenhouse pollution from Australia or the US or China affects bushfire risk in Australia, affects the future of the Great Barrier Reef.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, in plain terms, we need uh global action.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the Paris Agreement back in 2015 was historic because for the first time, all governments around the world said basically, we've got to avoid dangerous climate change, and they set some targets for how much warming we should uh deal with.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: In essence, how do we cap the pollution we're putting up?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this Glasgow international negotiation that's coming up next month, it's all about okay, we agreed these global goals.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's every country going to do to put them into place?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's the old story.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: A talk is cheap, we actually need to act.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the great imperative in Australia and worldwide is to get our greenhouse pollution down because it's affecting our climate today, and it'll affect it much more tomorrow.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting to me because when you read, I've never seen so much climate discussion in the newspaper and on the media as there is at the moment.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, there's just this complete influx, and you've got all the different elements pulling into their own direction to try and actually, you know, it's a big issue for many, many, many industries and businesses.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I noticed the nationals have withheld support for a net zero plan after their meeting yesterday, um, making a better deal for the regions, trying to, you know, trying to make sure that they are accounted for and there's a lot of resistance there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think Barnaby Joyce told the Australian after the meeting that national MPs were not at this stage convinced that Scott Morrison's plan for a net zero by 2050 emissions target could be achieved without negatively affecting the regions.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, it's pushing things uphill.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got people who are super on board and investing, and as we mentioned in my intro, investing, you know, millions and millions of dollars because they back it and they believe in it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, part of our mission is to talk to those that don't get it or don't understand it or are concerned about.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think if you bring it down to Australia and what we can do, and by the way, there's two outcomes, two things, in fact, three, that the world will be looking for from Australia out of Glasgow.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: One is net zero by 2050, but actually, more importantly, the world will be looking for us to make commitments that we're gonna act now, not put it off till 2050.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So our 2030 targets, and we'll be expected to join with the US, with Europe, all other developed countries in committing to halve our emissions by 2030.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's the real serious debate that's gonna happen there.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also have to be prepared to help with finance to the developing world so that they can make the change to low-carbon economies and uh stimulate development in clean economies.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right in the questions you asked me about regional Australia.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Deborah, could I just make perhaps two points here?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are real issues.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, transition in economies is never easy, and that happens in regions and it happens in cities.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's two things to remember in the climate debate that we're not really talking about enough.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And one is our regions are being hurt right now because of the lack of action on climate change.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: You look at the impacts of the bushfires in Southeast Australia to a lot of important regions.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: You look at the impact on tourism because of the threats to the Great Barrier Reef across regional Queensland.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, there's more jobs in tourism associated with the Great Barrier Reef and recreation than there is in mining in Queensland.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the second point: some of the solutions to climate change, such as renewable energy, hold great promise for regional job growth.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not as though we're facing jobs or no jobs.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually facing a choice.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do we maintain economies that are increasingly at risk because the fossil fuel economies are being rewound back around the world?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And do we invest in regions and assist regions with clean economies that help tackle climate change and generate the new jobs that are going to be needed?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that makes a lot of sense.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so just on that note, which I think is a very important one, Australia's richest woman, Gina Reinhardt, is warning that rushing to reduce greenhouse emissions without proper costings could imperil family farmers and cost taxpayers billions in subsidies.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So what you've just outlined is very important because you're saying, well, there will there's an offset.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's obviously going to have her own vested interests, of course, but um I suppose it's the naysayers that we need to change the lens on.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: We need to get them to see things in a different and more positive way, which you've just reflected on briefly.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: How are you tackling people like this who have a lot of power, a lot of money, and a lot of connections?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts around that?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Deborah, look, I'm I'm respectful there's different views.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also respectful, you know, if someone's heavily invested in coal, they're going to be speaking to, you know, maintaining that asset.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the truth is we need to change for the for the sake of our children, but also for a healthy economy.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really important that we recognize there are tremendous economic opportunities for Australia in a cleaner economy because it's going to be based substantially on renewable power.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we're the renewable superpower of the world because of the amount of sunshine we get here.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we're actually really fortunate that we're probably in the best position in the world to shift to clean economies.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we can still have electricity.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we can electrify our transport sector.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Renewable energy is now cheaper than new fossil fuel builds.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we can also bring the price down and we can avoid the terrible human costs and the economic costs of climate change if we act.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: From your perspective, do you see, first of all, you've been doing this a long, long time, many, many years?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: You've been very invested in educating and informing.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, this continues, particularly at the moment leading up to Paris.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a few things.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you see that there's you know some sort of climate reality fatigue?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we ensure that it's not a replay reel, that we continue to keep it in the foreground with fresh and vibrant and engaged discussion, which is what you know you and I know is is critical, as especially from the climate reality project perspective.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's three things here, Deborah, that are quite important.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: One is the science is increasingly showing us how urgent it is to act.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very, very clear now.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But here's two other things, and they both give me a lot of hope.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: One is you look at younger Australians, uh, younger people saying this issue is really important.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get acting.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And whether they're school kids or early adults, that momentum from people seeing a new cleaner future and wanting it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: We need to listen to that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: The third thing that I think is highly significant, and it's different to 10 years ago, it's now in our economic advantage to act.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've even got the Business Council of Australia, the Industry Group of Australia.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: We've got the main business sectors of the Australian economy saying, hey, it's in our competitive advantage as a nation.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: It will generate jobs if we move quickly to a low-carbon economy.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're sort of over the hump now where renewable energy is cheap enough to drive a vibrant but clean economy.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you sound hopeful and confident, which is great for people to hear because I mean there's a definite shift.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you look at five years ago, the shift to people's awareness, understanding, and preparedness to, as you say, the science just gets clearer and clearer.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Have you, what have you learned on this journey about how people are responding to the climate change challenge?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: For all of us who care about this issue, it's been frustrating how slow we've been to act in Australia.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also respectful.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: We've got almost like a split economy where half of our economy is a modern economy and the other half is still dependent, if you like, on the old dirty fuels.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm respectful these discussions are never going to be easy.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm actually now very hopeful that we've turned an economic corner, that the vast majority of people are aware of how important it is that we can act.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've just got to get on with the job of being strong and putting solutions in place quickly.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't, I mean the rest of the world is moving now.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: If we don't, we're gonna have border taxes imposed on us, and we're gonna be sitting there seeing the Great Barrier Reef damaged, uh, seeing people's health be really affected by smoke from increasing extreme bushfires, for example, coming into our major capital cities of Melbourne, Sydney, and Canberra.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the choice of not acting is one that has a lot of cost to it as well.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those two things, we've got real opportunity in front of us, but not acting has a very heavy cost, and they should drive us to move quickly now.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So has the pandemic shifted the focus or awakened humanity to the fact that we are mere mortals spinning around a vast globe?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're really like little ants in the universal scheme of things.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's been quite shell-shocking for a lot of people to realize that we're not as in control as we think we are.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, we're not a control at all, actually.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you think that that in a in a strange, even though it's an aberration, in a strange way, it it sort of triggered people to go, wait, we need to have a much more universal global perspective, and we are not in control of everything.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that helps the climate change cause?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Deborah, I think you're right, by the way.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's showing, I know personally, you know, I'm sitting here in Melbourne waiting to get out of lockdown, but really well, but I'm really respectful.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've acted together as a community to protect the vulnerable sections of our population.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's the truth.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we've locked down and we've acted together to make sure, as a community, the majority of us can be vaccinated to stave off overloading our hospital systems.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it actually sends a powerful message of what we can do together when we need to.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And climate change action requires the same level of awareness that we're all in this together.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: We need to act together, but we can.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you like, we've already got the vaccines for climate change.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: We know what the solutions are: renewable energy, uh, electric vehicles, energy efficiency, uh, more modern efficient agriculture, stop the loss of our forests worldwide, get on top of all of those, and we're on top of this issue.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a wonderful analogy, actually, because it's something that's quite digestible for people.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because with all the nuances, people get completely saturated and then they get overwhelmed and they can't, they just go, oh, it's all too big.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly the young people.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I like that, you know, the way that you referred to that is quite effective in that it's a much more um accessible concept.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, on that front, you know, the role of social impact investment seems to be growing exponentially with climate top of the list for many corporates.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and certainly most corporates have some sort of climate policy or philosophy.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's a huge change from even five years ago.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, uh, Deborah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a big economic opportunity.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for instance, in the run into this Glasgow negotiations next month, there's been over$30 trillion of investment held by investment companies that's now committed to invest in net zero by 2050.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: There are huge opportunities in this space.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: We need this to happen.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, there's a lot of entrepreneurs around Australia and a lot of investors in Australia saying, hey, this is a really big opportunity and a big growth opportunity for Australia.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even arguably Australia's uh well, Australia's wealthiest man.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed Twiggy Forrest is out there investing billions of dollars in a green hydrogen economy and renewable energy and other initiatives.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um, it's a great opportunity for Australia.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge, I think, for us is to grab it quickly and get going.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right as well, it doesn't just rely on governments.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's put our money to work and build this new clean economy together and reap the benefits of it.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll have a healthier planet to live on.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: With that in mind, you know, how do we stay focused on the key issues?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of voices, there's a lot of noise, and we need to keep clear on our vision and our mission.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And certainly uniting is absolutely critical, as you've outlined.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of really staying focused.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: How effective, or I suppose, how challenging do you think some of these the negative elements, like in the Labour Party or in the nationals, like what's happened recently, do you think that's actually gonna put some brakes on, or do you think that it's just got it's already got the momentum and it's flying and we're gonna get there?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna have to keep pushing our elected representatives strongly, no matter which political party they're from.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: They all need to push, by the way, is my view as a humble environmentalist.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, right now I'd be toddling down to my local representative, who I pay to represent me in the Australian Parliament.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be toddling down to them and say, hey, come on, let's make sure we cut our greenhouse pollution in half by 2030.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And come on, let's invest in this clean economy and jobs for Australia in a cleaner world.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting because, like, um, I don't know if Billy Eile, she's obviously, you know, a global music sensation, at her recent concert, she sort of jumped up and said, okay, you know, zero emissions, let's do it.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she got the whole audience really, you know, chanting towards Paris and the whole climate conference and the whole thing, yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was really impressive.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've seen the video, but that's interesting because what we're seeing is also a lot of really powerful voices in across all sectors, not just the business community, but the arts community, also really effective at saying to young people, this is your future, so you need to own it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing that transition quite a lot?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think it's fantastic that young people, uh, the arts sector, uh, the sports sector, the business sector, the investment sector, they're all out there now adding their voices in their own effective, different ways that we need to act, we can act, and let's just do it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: We need it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And Tommy, you've worked with our Gore quite a lot over time.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, you know, he's been in a huge incentive and really what he's created globally with the climate reality project, which is obviously the main focus, but all of the videos and the incredible films he's made.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: What have you learned from him?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: What has he taught you about how to get through, I suppose, the mud, excuse the environmental pun, but you know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Look, um, Al Gore says himself, you've got to balance your hope budget, you've got to keep your hope budget up, and you've also got to, you know, have a real sense of urgency about what you do.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he's an inspiration because he's maintained that over many years consistently, and because of that, he's inspired, encouraged, and helped other people to act.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you and me, Deborah, we've done his wonderful three day training where you not only learn you learn about the science, but you learn about the solutions, but you gain inspiration and effectiveness.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: By working together with others.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's also a little thing behind his message because he encourages people to reach out into their own networks and talk about it and do things together.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, by the way, that can be big things like, you know, urging our politicians to act.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It can be what you do with your investment, but it can also be, hey, let's try and make sure we just buy renewable energy or get solar panels on our ruse.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing he talks about is doing this together.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So don't feel alone.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Reach out to friends or your own network at work and take some simple positive steps together.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good point too, because when I did do the program with my brother, it was really inspiring to be in that room with all of those people and to learn.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: It had a really great energy.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the big group photo at the end where you all just go, we're on a mission together.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: It made you feel very connected and not so alone and not, and it's really important, I think, for young people to realize that there's a huge collective and that they can jump on board and be part of something, whether it's climate reality or whether it's through, as you mentioned, through other mediums, it's important that it's not a solo tour, it's a very important, united, connected movement.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a revolution, would you think?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of change we're already seeing in a short pace of time, for instance, the change to renewable energy is amazing, actually.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now we need it to be amazing, and we actually need it to speed up, but it is a revolution that's occurring.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone's sort of, you know, it can be a very daunting issue.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I worry about it.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: It keeps me up at night.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: But talk, but you know, talk to your friends, do some simple steps that are positive.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a way of keeping your own hope budget up.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And together, we can be really, really effective.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting you say that because I was going to ask you that exact question, actually, which is how do you manage your own anxiety when you're so immersed and you know, on a daily grind and have been doing for a long time, immersed in a pretty overwhelmingly powerful issue?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: How do you manage your own mental health and and your own, as you I mean, you've you've talked about the hope um budget, which I really like, but in terms of your personal toil, it does keep you up at night at times.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So have you sort of tapped resources to help you with that, or what is your internal um barometer, I suppose?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Deborah, it's lovely to ask uh that question.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I do have my moments.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, I love the Great Barrier Reef, and and so I have times of real sadness when I see the coral bleaching and the impacts on the reef, and I know how serious it is, but I get inspiration when I'm talking and working with other people, and when I'm seeing all the positive things people are doing.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And when the going's tough, I try and focus on the next step.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't solve really big issues all at once.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do one thing tangible, celebrate it, and move on and do the next.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of what I do with myself.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then at times, bushwalking, uh, nature soothes my soul, or music uh to make it fly.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh all of us, we have our moments, so I'm not pretending to be perfect.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh personally, it's two steps forward, one back on this, but I reckon that's okay.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would have to totally agree with you.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And on that note, I'd like to thank you so much for sharing your words of wisdom and for your time on this really important issue.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute pleasure having you on.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope and I know that our listeners will have learnt a lot just listening to you.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Deborah, great uh treat.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, and lovely to have a yarn to a fellow uh climate reality leader.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure and enjoy that greenery that I can see behind you.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't our parks wonderful even when we're locked out?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Love deck.