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Janet Xuccoa: The basics of trusts · The SME Stream

0:00
Speaker 1: And welcome back to the show. I'm Tim Beverage. This
0:03
Speaker 1: is the Weekend Collector. By the way, if you missed her.
0:05
Speaker 1: The conversation with Greg Pain about gadget's quite fascinating actually
0:09
Speaker 1: because I thought that the purest form of exercise without
0:13
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0:14
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0:17
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0:21
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0:27
Speaker 1: But now it has time for smart money and we've
0:29
Speaker 1: been sort of looking at doing this for a while.
0:32
Speaker 1: But the issue of trusts often they've come up, and
0:35
Speaker 1: I've sort of tried to rely on my very distant
0:37
Speaker 1: memory on trust law, which is pretty pretty pathetic. So
0:41
Speaker 1: if you've got any questions on trusts, this is the
0:45
Speaker 1: hour to give us a call. And joining me is
0:48
Speaker 1: She is the managing director of the New Zealand Family
0:50
Speaker 1: Trust Services and I've been trying to pronounce her name
0:53
Speaker 1: in all sorts of exotic ways and I got close.
0:56
Speaker 1: But Janet Zukoa. Hello, how are you there? Yes, it's
1:01
Speaker 1: because it's your name is spelled z u c CooA
1:04
Speaker 1: and I was sure it had to be a shower
1:08
Speaker 1: or something in there. But anyway, So you're managing director
1:11
Speaker 1: of New Zealand Family Trust Services. What is that organization?
1:15
Speaker 2: A Well, that organization is really New Zealand as Trustee
1:19
Speaker 2: of Choice, so it acts as an independent trustee for
1:22
Speaker 2: many trusts in New Zealand and it carries out all
1:25
Speaker 2: of the administration compliance work that we have to do
1:27
Speaker 2: now for trusts.
1:28
Speaker 1: And how did you, Okay, I'm guessing being the managing director,
1:33
Speaker 1: you've been at the game a little while. How did
1:36
Speaker 1: you get into trust work in the first place?
1:38
Speaker 2: Well, if I if I tell you how many years
1:40
Speaker 2: I've been at we made away.
1:41
Speaker 1: But we won't be doing that but definitely.
1:44
Speaker 2: Definitely for for several decades.
1:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what made you get interested in the trust
1:51
Speaker 1: side of things?
1:51
Speaker 2: Well, I was a little like you. I liked equity
1:54
Speaker 2: at law school. I enjoyed equity and I do believe
1:57
Speaker 2: in really protecting wealth and not just for the sake
2:02
Speaker 2: of building up assets. But when you have assets, you
2:05
Speaker 2: have choices and options, and when you satisfied your base
2:10
Speaker 2: level of living. You can help others if you've got assets.
2:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. And actually, when you mean protecting wealth, it's not
2:16
Speaker 1: about protecting huge wealth necessarily. It's just anything you've accumulated.
2:20
Speaker 3: Is it.
2:21
Speaker 2: Well, that's right. People think that you've got to be
2:23
Speaker 2: ultra wealthy to have trust, but that's not the case
2:26
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. Our spurt of entrepreneurship is well and
2:29
Speaker 2: surely alive. I mean New Zealand has made up of
2:31
Speaker 2: small and medium sized companies. They dot our landscape. And
2:35
Speaker 2: when you're in business, that comes with a risk. And
2:38
Speaker 2: so people that have built just to simply fail in
2:41
Speaker 2: the home, they don't want to put that on the line,
2:44
Speaker 2: and putting it in a trust can help protect.
2:46
Speaker 1: That because there are people who would see if you
2:51
Speaker 1: are hired. Not hiding, of course, But is there an
2:54
Speaker 1: ethical dimension to trusts? Because there will always be a
2:57
Speaker 1: headline somewhere where someone has done some dodgy dealings, but
3:01
Speaker 1: most of their wealth has tied up in a family trust,
3:03
Speaker 1: which means that people who maybe have felt they've been
3:06
Speaker 1: hard done by can't get at it. Is there. I
3:09
Speaker 1: guess it doesn't mean matter.
3:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, deep devious dishonest. There's all the words that come
3:15
Speaker 2: to mind, aren't they with when you're looking at trus
3:17
Speaker 2: And I think that's care of the likes of TV
3:19
Speaker 2: and books and Panama papers. But in New Zealand, in
3:23
Speaker 2: your zeal It in general, in thal It in general,
3:27
Speaker 2: we have honest, hard working Kiwis that are just trying
3:31
Speaker 2: to get ahead and protect what, protect what they've built up,
3:34
Speaker 2: and trust to use as a great device for that
3:37
Speaker 2: in relation to assets, but not just just against creditor claims,
3:41
Speaker 2: You've got relationship claims too. Oh.
3:44
Speaker 1: Actually, of course people if you are well. He's an
3:47
Speaker 1: example I guess would be if you were in another relationship.
3:51
Speaker 1: You've got children from your previous relationship and you don't
3:54
Speaker 1: want to form a relationship where you find that suddenly
3:56
Speaker 1: half your assets are gone to this new and you
3:58
Speaker 1: want to protect the assets for your kids.
4:00
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people are entering into even first
4:03
Speaker 2: relationships later on in life and they've built their careers
4:07
Speaker 2: and they've got some wealth behind them. Then you've got
4:10
Speaker 2: the second second types of relationships where they've been through
4:13
Speaker 2: a divorce or or a split on a de facto
4:16
Speaker 2: and they want to bring you know, they're going to
4:18
Speaker 2: bring assets with them to that relationship, and they're happy
4:21
Speaker 2: to share what they've built up with that new person,
4:25
Speaker 2: but they want to ring fence the assets that they
4:28
Speaker 2: bring into the relationship for themselves and their and their children,
4:31
Speaker 2: and trust along with a good property relationship agreement and
4:34
Speaker 2: helps that.
4:35
Speaker 1: Do you actually do you need both? When you so,
4:37
Speaker 1: if you had if you if you had a family,
4:40
Speaker 1: if you had a trust to protect your assets you're
4:42
Speaker 1: in a new relationship, do you need the property agreement
4:44
Speaker 1: or does your trust do all that for you?
4:46
Speaker 3: Well?
4:46
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't necessarily think that a trust solely
4:50
Speaker 2: will do the job. Because we've got New Zealand courts
4:53
Speaker 2: can see through trusts and they can you know that
4:55
Speaker 2: they can make judgments to break trusts if they if
4:58
Speaker 2: they think that that's necessary.
5:00
Speaker 1: When when you say see through, the common understanding is
5:03
Speaker 1: see through as they as I know what you're doing here.
5:05
Speaker 1: But when you say c through, you mean like look
5:07
Speaker 1: through in terms of they can say I don't care
5:10
Speaker 1: what wall you've set up here, I'm knocking it down.
5:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm knocking down. I'm going to come through and
5:14
Speaker 2: take the assets and I'm going to divide the assets
5:17
Speaker 2: in an appropriate way that they that they feel is
5:20
Speaker 2: just so property relationship agreements. I think every every every
5:24
Speaker 2: lawyer would say properly relationship agreement as a keystone to
5:27
Speaker 2: protecting health in the first instance, and then a trust
5:31
Speaker 2: or two helps.
5:32
Speaker 1: Yeah so who so who needs No I'm trying to put,
5:39
Speaker 1: at what stage do you think people should consider having
5:42
Speaker 1: a trust? Because and how many trusts are there actually
5:45
Speaker 1: in New Zealand we consider we've got a population of
5:47
Speaker 1: five million people.
5:48
Speaker 2: We don't actually have a register of trusts in New Zealand.
5:51
Speaker 2: We do, of course when the government does you know,
5:53
Speaker 2: statistics every sort of is it three years, that is statistics?
5:57
Speaker 1: The census is every five is five years?
5:58
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, maybe every five years.
6:00
Speaker 1: In Yeah, I have to google that.
6:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, whenever they do that. Whenever they do that that activity,
6:06
Speaker 2: trusts do come up there. Yeah, but they and so
6:10
Speaker 2: so you do see trusts and numbers like three hundred thousand,
6:14
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand all banded around. But we don't actually
6:17
Speaker 2: have a register in New Zealand of trusts. It's been
6:20
Speaker 2: mooted every now and again. You hear some grumbles about it,
6:23
Speaker 2: but hasn't come out yet, so we don't know the
6:25
Speaker 2: exact number.
6:26
Speaker 1: Are the what are the biggest mistakes? By the way,
6:29
Speaker 1: it is every five years the census, My producers, just right,
6:32
Speaker 1: what are the Can you set up your own trust?
6:35
Speaker 1: Can you?
6:36
Speaker 2: Literally it would be very difficult to set up your
6:39
Speaker 2: own trusts and unwise Yeah, and definitely imprudent. Yeah, you
6:43
Speaker 2: want to want a lawyer to set up a trust,
6:46
Speaker 2: someone who actually understands the law and knows what they're doing.
6:48
Speaker 2: Because trust have longevity, I mean under around you and
6:52
Speaker 2: you act the trusts at twenty nineteen, they're one hundred
6:55
Speaker 2: and twenty five years those trusts live now. Of course
6:57
Speaker 2: you can bring them for which invest them early than that,
7:00
Speaker 2: But trusts are for a long duration. They're not just
7:03
Speaker 2: for today and next year.
7:05
Speaker 1: So how is there a limit to how long a
7:06
Speaker 1: trust can last?
7:07
Speaker 2: It used to be eighty years, Now it's one hundred
7:09
Speaker 2: and twenty five.
7:11
Speaker 1: How do they come up with that number?
7:12
Speaker 2: Don't know. You'd have to ask the Low Commission that.
7:14
Speaker 2: But if you think it through, it does make sense
7:17
Speaker 2: because you would have this generation the parents say, and
7:21
Speaker 2: then the children, yeah, and then maybe the grand children
7:23
Speaker 2: and then the grand children's.
7:24
Speaker 1: Depending on how late they have.
7:25
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so you can see that a trust could be
7:28
Speaker 2: for three or more generations, and that would that's I
7:32
Speaker 2: suppose what they were thinking about in the back of
7:34
Speaker 2: their minds when they chose one hundred and twenty five years.
7:36
Speaker 1: So legally, when you set up a trust, the assets
7:42
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember everything and I'll get it wrong,
7:44
Speaker 1: but they belong the trustees actually become the legal owners
7:48
Speaker 1: of whatever you put in the trust.
7:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, so have we have some positions in the trust
7:53
Speaker 2: and well, so first off, the people that set up
7:55
Speaker 2: the trust, they're called the settlers, and then you have
7:59
Speaker 2: people that are point trustees and the tire trustees and
8:03
Speaker 2: they're called the appointurs. And then we have the trustees.
8:07
Speaker 2: They're the people the charge was managing the assets for
8:10
Speaker 2: the benefit of the beneficiaries, and they're the people that
8:13
Speaker 2: benefit from the trust. So I always I liken it
8:17
Speaker 2: in my mind too. I don't know a bit like
8:19
Speaker 2: a cargo ship. You've got you've got the captain of
8:22
Speaker 2: the ship, yeah okay, and then you've got all the passengers,
8:25
Speaker 2: and then you've got all the assets. The cargo is
8:27
Speaker 2: sitting in the cargo Holt.
8:28
Speaker 1: So I think, what's the rules around who can be
8:31
Speaker 1: a trust? And if you are trying to protect your
8:34
Speaker 1: own assets for you and your family, how does it
8:37
Speaker 1: work with you establishing a trust where you are the beneficiary.
8:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wear all those hats, aren't you. You're like
8:43
Speaker 2: the settler, you're setting it up. You're the appointerur who
8:46
Speaker 2: has the ability to hire and fire trustees. You're the
8:49
Speaker 2: trustee who's meant to be looking after the assets, and
8:51
Speaker 2: then you're one of the beneficiaries. And that doesn't look
8:54
Speaker 2: right it does it? Yeah? I know, and it is possible,
8:57
Speaker 2: and in fact it does happen that that is how
8:59
Speaker 2: most of our questiony family trust to set up in
9:01
Speaker 2: New Zealand. And then we're run into all sorts of
9:03
Speaker 2: complications there because there are rules about self benefiting and
9:08
Speaker 2: being put in and making the right decisions for the beneficiaries.
9:11
Speaker 2: And I suppose if you're challenged, it's quite hard to say, well,
9:14
Speaker 2: I've made a complete independent decision and I haven't thought
9:17
Speaker 2: about haven't thought about myself at all when you're in
9:20
Speaker 2: that position where you're holding all of the roles, And
9:23
Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why independent trustees are put
9:27
Speaker 2: into a trust arrangement because they bring some independence to
9:30
Speaker 2: some decision making.
9:31
Speaker 1: Does that mean if you are a trustee and a
9:33
Speaker 1: beneficiary that they are also a couple of independent trustees.
9:37
Speaker 1: Does that mean you might not be part of that
9:39
Speaker 1: decision or you would still just say, look, I've been
9:41
Speaker 1: part of a decision, but I'd supported by my independent
9:44
Speaker 1: trustees or something.
9:45
Speaker 2: Well, at lawd decision making is unanimous unless the trustees
9:49
Speaker 2: says otherwise, so they would always be part of the
9:52
Speaker 2: decision making. But you would like to think that the
9:54
Speaker 2: independent trustee is well qualified and able to be smart
9:59
Speaker 2: enough to know what's best for the beneficiaries. So that's what.
10:03
Speaker 1: You guys do. Is that New Zealand Family Trust Services,
10:07
Speaker 1: So you provide trustees.
10:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, first off, we will be an independent trustee for
10:13
Speaker 2: people's trusts. And you know under the under the New
10:16
Speaker 2: Trust Act and and different pieces of legislation like for example,
10:21
Speaker 2: the amendments to the Tax Administration Act and the Income
10:25
Speaker 2: Tax Act. Trust trustees can really be held too high
10:29
Speaker 2: high standards of behavior. They can be really liable. It
10:33
Speaker 2: can be real liable if.
10:34
Speaker 1: You're a trust trust that has not followed its obligations
10:37
Speaker 1: through then Bengo, you're in the gun, aren't you.
10:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely real liability and that your assets could be
10:43
Speaker 2: on the line. So independent trustees they're harder to find
10:49
Speaker 2: these days, and we have we've taken the position where
10:52
Speaker 2: we want to be independent trustees of clients trusts. However,
10:56
Speaker 2: we do do the job right, we will make the trust,
11:00
Speaker 2: we'll ensure that it will be compliant. We know what
11:03
Speaker 2: I call setless centric behavior where setlers just want to
11:06
Speaker 2: do whatever they want to do and and you know
11:08
Speaker 2: they're just going to have their way.
11:10
Speaker 1: Well that's I mean, that's ideally what you'd want anyway,
11:13
Speaker 1: if you're if you're if you are a bona fide
11:15
Speaker 1: a news person who's got some wealth that you want
11:18
Speaker 1: to protect and you want to look after it for
11:21
Speaker 1: your descendants. You don't want to be left to your
11:24
Speaker 1: own devices. You want someone like you, guys, because otherwise
11:28
Speaker 1: the courts are going to look through your trust before
11:30
Speaker 1: you know it and puffit's all gone.
11:31
Speaker 2: Well they are music to my years. But it's what's It's.
11:35
Speaker 1: What I just said, yeah exactly.
11:36
Speaker 2: Because it's quite surprising. It's quite clients are comments like, no,
11:39
Speaker 2: they're my assets some under us it's like, well, actually,
11:41
Speaker 2: hang on a minute, they belong to the trust, they're
11:43
Speaker 2: not your assets.
11:44
Speaker 1: In fact, hell is that quite common that people think
11:47
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a trust and they come in
11:49
Speaker 1: and you're sitting there going, oh, we're going to have
11:52
Speaker 1: to have one of those conversations, because this is not
11:54
Speaker 1: about hiding stuff away and just doing what you want
11:57
Speaker 1: and avoid it. Yeah.
11:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called centric behavior. And there's been a lot
12:03
Speaker 2: of it that's gone on. And of course that's happened
12:06
Speaker 2: in the past because there hasn't really been a lot
12:08
Speaker 2: of scrutiny on trustees. But now under that new piece
12:11
Speaker 2: of act, that new piece of legislation, trustees are subject
12:15
Speaker 2: to high levels of scrutiny. Beneficiaries can hold them to
12:18
Speaker 2: account much more easily than what they've ever done before.
12:21
Speaker 2: And so you'll find a lot of independent trustees who
12:24
Speaker 2: have been fairly passive, who haven't been who haven't wanted
12:29
Speaker 2: to or haven't demanded to look at balance sheets every
12:31
Speaker 2: year and sit down and hold annual trustee meetings. So
12:34
Speaker 2: haven't been doing all of that. They want to actually
12:36
Speaker 2: get out of the job, out of the role, and
12:38
Speaker 2: so trust to look around for an independent trustee. And
12:42
Speaker 2: I guess that's where we come in, our company comes in.
12:44
Speaker 1: Because obviously, if you've got let's say you've got a
12:47
Speaker 1: significant level of wealth, like many millions of dollars, then
12:50
Speaker 1: that level of that level of asset sort of wealth,
12:55
Speaker 1: you'd be able to have trustees where you obviously there's
12:59
Speaker 1: times and you could have a more complex trust where
13:03
Speaker 1: you would expect the trustees in your role to be
13:08
Speaker 1: hands on a lot of the time, whereas for many
13:10
Speaker 1: people they would just want a fairly simple arrangement where
13:13
Speaker 1: the trustee I mean, where am I going? Where am
13:16
Speaker 1: I going with? Yes?
13:17
Speaker 2: Where you're going with that is like, well, if it's
13:19
Speaker 2: just if the if the trust just holds the home
13:22
Speaker 2: and maybe a family batch, Yeah, and then they have
13:25
Speaker 2: an independent trustee sitting alongside them. Mister and missus Smith
13:28
Speaker 2: are the independent trustee sitting alongside them. That's going to
13:30
Speaker 2: involve lots of costs. That's probably where you're going, mate.
13:33
Speaker 1: I'm asking how you can avoid it being something where
13:36
Speaker 1: it's you've got someone who's on the on the clock,
13:38
Speaker 1: you know, several months of the year.
13:41
Speaker 2: Well it would be it'd be every bother of the year.
13:43
Speaker 2: Because of independent trustees. Trustees. It's there all the time,
13:47
Speaker 2: but they only they probably only access them in a
13:50
Speaker 2: situation where there's passivest it's like the family home and
13:52
Speaker 2: a batch. It probably only access them a couple of
13:54
Speaker 2: times of the year. And I don't think there is
13:57
Speaker 2: any way to avoid the cost good professional trust charged.
14:01
Speaker 1: No. I guess what I mean is there would be
14:02
Speaker 1: trusts where the job of the trustee is going to
14:04
Speaker 1: be more complex and more expensive. Whereas if you've got
14:07
Speaker 1: a family batch and the family home and you're shoven
14:09
Speaker 1: in a trust. Yes, intuitively that tells me that you're
14:12
Speaker 1: not really going to have a huge amount of trust expenses.
14:16
Speaker 1: Would you, I don't know how well you would.
14:18
Speaker 2: You still need to pay for the independent trustee to
14:20
Speaker 2: be there, and we do take we take insurance policies
14:23
Speaker 2: that air whack. We still need to spend time meeting
14:27
Speaker 2: the trustees and considering the beneficiaries and reviewing the assets.
14:31
Speaker 2: So you still got to have an annual trustee meeting.
14:35
Speaker 2: You know, you still got to have your eye over
14:37
Speaker 2: those trust assets. The law doesn't distinguish between assets that
14:41
Speaker 2: are only worth I don't know, half a million tore
14:43
Speaker 2: assets worth gazillions of dombers. It's the law, is the law?
14:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay. Look, if you've got any questions on
14:50
Speaker 1: trusts and you're or you're thinking, maybe do I need one?
14:55
Speaker 1: Now you're listening to this and you're thinking, you've got
14:56
Speaker 1: a small business and with the way things are, maybe
14:59
Speaker 1: you need to protect some assets. Any questions you've got,
15:02
Speaker 1: will have a crack at it. Well, I won't have
15:03
Speaker 1: a crack at answering them, Janet will. And by the way,
15:07
Speaker 1: you have you've given me a copy of the You've
15:10
Speaker 1: written a book which actually is not out yet, Janet,
15:12
Speaker 1: Is that right?
15:13
Speaker 2: No, Well, it's nationwide book distributors. They have got that
15:17
Speaker 2: book now and they will be visiting. I would think
15:20
Speaker 2: most of the bookshops in New Zealand in the next
15:23
Speaker 2: in the next month or so. I did have a
15:25
Speaker 2: call from from a chain of bookshops last week who'd
15:28
Speaker 2: heard that the book was available, and I just pushed
15:30
Speaker 2: them to nationwide book distributors, who will good on movies.
15:34
Speaker 1: And it's called trusts one two three. But you can't
15:37
Speaker 1: quite get it yet, but soon, okay. I eight hundred
15:40
Speaker 1: eighty ten and eighty will take your texts as well.
15:42
Speaker 1: But what any questions you've got around protecting your assets
15:45
Speaker 1: and trusts, then we'd love to hear from you on
15:47
Speaker 1: I eight one hundred eighty ten and eighty text nine
15:49
Speaker 1: two nine two. It's twenty three past five News Talk
15:52
Speaker 1: zed Ble's welcome back to the show. This is the
15:55
Speaker 1: weekend collective Smart Money and we're doing a bit of
15:57
Speaker 1: a special talking about trust. If you've got any questions,
16:00
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from you on eight hundred eighty
16:01
Speaker 1: ten and eighty even if you are the beneficiary of
16:04
Speaker 1: a trust or you want to know if there's some
16:06
Speaker 1: way you can actually get your hands on. Actually my
16:10
Speaker 1: guest is Janet Zukoa and she is the managing director
16:14
Speaker 1: of New Zealand Family Trust Services. Janet, if you are
16:19
Speaker 1: a trustee, say there's a couple of you and you
16:22
Speaker 1: are beneficiaries of a trust, you can you if you
16:25
Speaker 1: both agree, you can just get you can can you
16:29
Speaker 1: dissolve the trust? If you are the only beneficiaries? How
16:33
Speaker 1: on the second Sorr, I'll just set your microphone there,
16:35
Speaker 1: Sorry about.
16:35
Speaker 2: That first, or if you would have to be a beneficiary,
16:38
Speaker 2: so that's really important and the beneficiaries have to be
16:41
Speaker 2: certain everybody. We have to know who all the beneficiaries are.
16:46
Speaker 2: So if it was certain that it was just the
16:48
Speaker 2: two of you as beneficiary.
16:50
Speaker 1: Or three or four but whoever, Well.
16:52
Speaker 2: If it's really certain who the beneficiaries are and the
16:55
Speaker 2: classes are closed, it's just them, it's not future future
16:58
Speaker 2: children or grandchildren sort of thing, then yes, they can
17:02
Speaker 2: all mind together and they can agree to w the
17:04
Speaker 2: trust to a end.
17:05
Speaker 1: Because the example would be, I guess and your parents
17:08
Speaker 1: or your grandparents have set up a trust and there's
17:10
Speaker 1: a maybe there's just there's three or four grandchildren, and
17:15
Speaker 1: everyone would think that you have to sort of just
17:18
Speaker 1: receive and come from the trust according to the terms
17:21
Speaker 1: of it. But if you're all together and you go,
17:23
Speaker 1: hang on a minute, do we all want to just
17:25
Speaker 1: get hold of the assets and sell it and split
17:27
Speaker 1: them up? You can as long as you all agree.
17:30
Speaker 2: You've got to all agree. But a lot of the
17:32
Speaker 2: time when a trust is brought to an end, the
17:35
Speaker 2: assets move from trust to trust. So let's say it's
17:39
Speaker 2: two beneficiaries and the parents have died, and the two
17:43
Speaker 2: beneficiaries now want the assets. The assets can be divided
17:47
Speaker 2: equally and then to a new trust set up, and
17:50
Speaker 2: then they move from trust to trust for the beneficiaries.
17:53
Speaker 2: And you might do that because the beneficiaries have risks
17:55
Speaker 2: of their own, so.
17:56
Speaker 1: They just want to have their own They want to
17:58
Speaker 1: split it up, but they're like, look, I still want
18:00
Speaker 1: to protect my assets absolutely, And so is that quite common.
18:04
Speaker 2: Very common, And so they may have business with themselves.
18:07
Speaker 2: They have a relationship risk.
18:10
Speaker 1: How would it work, say, actually, I'm just coming out
18:12
Speaker 1: with some scenarios here to if say someone set up
18:16
Speaker 1: a trust and let's say grandma and granddad and grandma
18:20
Speaker 1: and granddad have passed on, and the trust is for
18:25
Speaker 1: the kids, and ultimately when those kids are gone, their grandchildren.
18:32
Speaker 1: If for the time being the trust is just in
18:36
Speaker 1: the favor of the first generation, do they do all
18:41
Speaker 1: the grandchildren have to agree at all? Or can the
18:43
Speaker 1: you know, I forget you know how things get passed
18:45
Speaker 1: down through the generation. So those once those potential beneficiaries
18:49
Speaker 1: are alive, they all have to agree. Whether they be
18:51
Speaker 1: the first generation or the second generation or the third
18:54
Speaker 1: they've all got.
18:54
Speaker 2: To agree absolutely. And they could also be unborn beneficiaries.
18:58
Speaker 2: And so that's where it gets early.
19:00
Speaker 1: What if someone's pregnant, you mean or just imaginary.
19:03
Speaker 2: But they haven't they don't exist yet. Okay, So it
19:05
Speaker 2: might be for for it might be like a bloodline trust,
19:09
Speaker 2: and so there might be unborn beneficiaries that haven't haven't
19:12
Speaker 2: been born yet.
19:13
Speaker 1: So you can't get rid of that trust.
19:14
Speaker 2: Well, at that point you can result to the courts,
19:17
Speaker 2: because there is sections in the new Trust Act which
19:19
Speaker 2: allow the courts to to have a look at that
19:21
Speaker 2: sort of thing and bring the trust to an end.
19:24
Speaker 2: But it is a result back to the court.
19:26
Speaker 1: What's fascinating this area of law because the thing about law,
19:29
Speaker 1: this area of law, and we have talked about it
19:30
Speaker 1: in the break, is while there is legislation now that
19:33
Speaker 1: the government has drafted and passed, the law of trust
19:36
Speaker 1: goes back. I mean how many how far people think.
19:40
Speaker 2: That it goes back to the Crusades times, but an
19:43
Speaker 2: actual factor goes much further back. By the late by
19:47
Speaker 2: the late Roman Republic period, we had trusts that we're
19:51
Speaker 2: operating well, at least that a trust type of arrangement
19:54
Speaker 2: that was reflected in the laws of succession. So trusts
20:00
Speaker 2: thousands of years old and I can't see them. Every
20:03
Speaker 2: now and again you're get a murmur or maybe they're
20:05
Speaker 2: going to get rid of trust.
20:06
Speaker 1: How much they check how much has the nature of
20:08
Speaker 1: trust changed? But with the legislation, are they still essentially
20:12
Speaker 1: the same?
20:12
Speaker 2: Well, I think at their base level they are the same.
20:16
Speaker 2: But trust, that's one of the wonderful reasons of trust,
20:19
Speaker 2: one of the how why trusts have endured for so long,
20:22
Speaker 2: because they respond to our varying in different socio economic
20:27
Speaker 2: conditions and are norms and our values.
20:29
Speaker 1: I can hear cynical people who listen to talk about
20:31
Speaker 1: going that's because it's a great way to hide. Well,
20:34
Speaker 1: you know, I'll protect or protect wealth, depending which way
20:36
Speaker 1: you want to look at it. Let's take some calls Colin,
20:38
Speaker 1: good afternoon, Yeah.
20:41
Speaker 4: Good afternoon. Just regarding I guess tax and I understand
20:48
Speaker 4: that the tax rate's going to be up to thirty
20:50
Speaker 4: nine percent for all trusts. So would that mean basically,
20:55
Speaker 4: you're going to be greater burden of tax putting your
21:01
Speaker 4: assets into a trust compared to if you didn't, for example.
21:06
Speaker 2: Well, that that is true the trust the new trustee
21:09
Speaker 2: tax aight is thirty nine percent, and that that changed
21:12
Speaker 2: on the first of April twenty twenty four. Prior to that,
21:15
Speaker 2: worth thirty three percent. And of course, because our individual
21:19
Speaker 2: highest marginal tax rate was thirty nine percent, you did
21:22
Speaker 2: see money moving from companies, for example, at twenty eight
21:26
Speaker 2: percent into you know, moving around, so that you've got
21:30
Speaker 2: good benefits of a tax. The benefits are still there
21:33
Speaker 2: now despite the alignment with the individual top marginal tax rate.
21:38
Speaker 2: And I'll give you an example. Let's say that a
21:40
Speaker 2: trust does receive dividend income from a company and the
21:44
Speaker 2: trustees they decide that they're not going to retain that income,
21:48
Speaker 2: they're going to actually pay it out to beneficiaries. Well,
21:51
Speaker 2: when the beneficiaries receive the income they've got, they've got
21:54
Speaker 2: declared that of course in their personal tax return, and
21:56
Speaker 2: then they pay tax at their personal marginal TAXI and
22:00
Speaker 2: that could indeed be lower than thirty nine percent. So
22:03
Speaker 2: there are some benefits there, possibly, possibly, But nobody would
22:07
Speaker 2: set up a trust these days for a tax benefit. First,
22:10
Speaker 2: it would be illegal anyway, The tax benefits are merely incidental, okay.
22:15
Speaker 2: And then really, the costs of running a trust. You
22:18
Speaker 2: we've did mention that before on the on the cost
22:22
Speaker 2: of running a trust. You know, they don't they don't
22:24
Speaker 2: have to be exorbitant but that is going to cost
22:27
Speaker 2: you something, So people don't run around trying to save
22:31
Speaker 2: three or four cents when they've got onco the costs.
22:35
Speaker 1: Any follow up there, Colin? Are you looking at getting
22:38
Speaker 1: a trust or you've got one?
22:40
Speaker 4: I've had one for a few years, and yeah, so
22:45
Speaker 4: I just I probably need to talk to my accountant
22:47
Speaker 4: a bit more about it as well. But you know,
22:50
Speaker 4: I'm currently paying on my normal Saturday thirty nine percent
22:55
Speaker 4: top rights.
22:56
Speaker 2: But with.
22:59
Speaker 4: The I'm not earning them will I'll be paying thirty
23:03
Speaker 4: nine percent on the trust income to myself, even though
23:08
Speaker 4: it might not be.
23:09
Speaker 3: That much money.
23:11
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think good account at this experience
23:13
Speaker 2: with trusts, and maybe companies they can they can often
23:19
Speaker 2: help you with that.
23:21
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, thanks Colin? Does that get my head around this?
23:25
Speaker 1: If you've got assets, so if you it's not really
23:28
Speaker 1: a part of it. Is it really that relevant what
23:31
Speaker 1: the tax top tax rate is? If your personal tax
23:33
Speaker 1: rates thirty nine percent, if you keep those assets in
23:36
Speaker 1: their awny income, you're going to be paying thirty nine
23:38
Speaker 1: percent anyway, So who cares if you're sticking in a trust?
23:41
Speaker 1: Have I got that right?
23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah? That would be true. But Trusts are often used
23:46
Speaker 2: in conjunction with companies. So companies pay dividends and they
23:50
Speaker 2: may pay a dividend through to a trust. And so
23:52
Speaker 2: of course at that point you're paying twenty eight percent
23:56
Speaker 2: company tax frate to pay a dividend out you've got
24:00
Speaker 2: you've got to pay that at thirty three percent. So
24:02
Speaker 2: there's got to be you know, you've got to pay
24:04
Speaker 2: an extra top upper tax. I suppose a five percent,
24:06
Speaker 2: and then it moves into the trust and you would think,
24:10
Speaker 2: do we have to do we now have to top
24:12
Speaker 2: it up again to the thirty nine percent. But that
24:15
Speaker 2: depends on whether the trust is retained the income or not.
24:17
Speaker 2: It depends on whether the recipient's got high tax rate
24:21
Speaker 2: as well. It might have low tax rates.
24:23
Speaker 1: So okay, we've got lots of text. Let's see how
24:26
Speaker 1: we can get into these questions. What's the difference between
24:28
Speaker 1: a trust and a will?
24:30
Speaker 2: Ah, Well, wills deal with personal assets of individuals like
24:35
Speaker 2: I don't know, jewelry and cars, and trusts tend to
24:39
Speaker 2: they still hold assets. But really, when you're looking at
24:43
Speaker 2: a trust, it's a device for holding assets for a
24:46
Speaker 2: long time. The will doesn't really come near it. Usually
24:50
Speaker 2: you have what's called a memorandum of bushes rather than
24:52
Speaker 2: a will, which sets out what needs to happen when
24:54
Speaker 2: the person dies.
24:55
Speaker 1: Can a will establish a trust?
24:57
Speaker 2: Yes it can, Yeah, you can. You can to trusts
25:00
Speaker 2: via a will.
25:01
Speaker 1: But in general, and the person who actually administers the well,
25:04
Speaker 1: I'm accompany with the executive. The executives. They are acting
25:07
Speaker 1: in a sort of position as a trustee for the
25:09
Speaker 1: time temporarily.
25:10
Speaker 2: Well, they are there. They're overseeing the personal distribution of
25:14
Speaker 2: the assets and accordance with the will instructions.
25:17
Speaker 1: How do you say, set up a trust as parents
25:19
Speaker 1: who want their children to benefit from it, but not
25:21
Speaker 1: any partners of children if their relationships break down.
25:24
Speaker 2: You just make sure that the children are named as specifically, yes, efectly. Yeah.
25:29
Speaker 2: And also when you do pay out the assets to
25:33
Speaker 2: the children, you would, you know, you would make sure
25:36
Speaker 2: you've got the right documentation around that. You might also
25:40
Speaker 2: do that via a trust as well. A lot of
25:42
Speaker 2: parents these days pay deposits, you know, for children, to
25:45
Speaker 2: get them into houses and that sort of thing. You
25:47
Speaker 2: need to make sure that there's plenty of documentation around
25:50
Speaker 2: that if it's coming via the trust.
25:52
Speaker 1: Okay, we've got the calls rolling, and now I knew
25:55
Speaker 1: it would happen. Since we get into these texts, one
25:57
Speaker 1: more text, then we'll get into the cause. I think
25:59
Speaker 1: almost can answer. Have a crack at answering this myself,
26:01
Speaker 1: but I'll hand it to you. Here we go. Hi, guys,
26:03
Speaker 1: I'm looking at I'm looking at going through a divorce.
26:06
Speaker 1: I'm looking at going through a divorce. You're anticipating a divorce. Okay,
26:10
Speaker 1: I have moved most of my assets into a trust.
26:13
Speaker 1: Will this protect them for the divorce? I had these
26:16
Speaker 1: assets before meeting my wife, but I don't have a prenup.
26:19
Speaker 1: I would say that he's in trouble.
26:22
Speaker 2: That's from being I would say they definitely go go
26:24
Speaker 2: talk to a lawyer. That's for sure. Moving assets into
26:27
Speaker 2: a trust to try and avoid sharing them on a
26:31
Speaker 2: relationship that's probably not going to.
26:33
Speaker 1: The court's going to look through.
26:34
Speaker 2: That doesn't beggar. Yeah, And even if the assets are
26:38
Speaker 2: and trust, if a person's done significant work on an
26:42
Speaker 2: asset then that's held in the trust, then the courts
26:45
Speaker 2: would likely still award some benefit to that person.
26:49
Speaker 1: Actually, probably the answer is in matrimonial property law, really
26:52
Speaker 1: isn't it, Because if you have kept those assets completely
26:55
Speaker 1: separate and they've had nothing to do with the relationship.
26:57
Speaker 1: Then talk to a lawyer and may be able to
26:59
Speaker 1: just that's part of them the argument. But it's not
27:02
Speaker 1: going to be argument free, is it.
27:03
Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to be argument free. So I'll
27:05
Speaker 2: give you an example. Let's say that the trust owned
27:07
Speaker 2: the house well before this gentleman met his newest and dearest,
27:11
Speaker 2: and then the newest and dewest moves into the house
27:14
Speaker 2: and she does substantial work on the house, maybe puts
27:17
Speaker 2: money into the house into renovations. Then I don't think
27:21
Speaker 2: on the dissolution he's going to be able to say
27:25
Speaker 2: it's all mine. Okay, I think I think somewhere along.
27:28
Speaker 1: The line it's intermingled, isn't it.
27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's inter mingled. And a lawyer and a
27:32
Speaker 2: judge is going to say, you know, Purney up in
27:36
Speaker 2: saying that I'm not I'm not giving I'm certainly not giving.
27:40
Speaker 1: No, No, that's important we do that. Do that have
27:43
Speaker 1: that disclammer. There's no specific advice, but where you know
27:45
Speaker 1: you've Yeah, you need to get some good advice on that.
27:48
Speaker 1: But it's easy. I can just remember from my legal
27:50
Speaker 1: days that if you keep your assets separate, If you've
27:53
Speaker 1: got a separate bank account never used by the relationship
27:56
Speaker 1: and it sits there separately, you've got to be at
27:59
Speaker 1: a chance that you're going to keep it. Probably should
28:02
Speaker 1: have set up the trust before the relationship though.
28:04
Speaker 2: That's helpful.
28:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's helpful.
28:06
Speaker 3: Right.
28:06
Speaker 1: We're going to take some calls in just a moment.
28:08
Speaker 1: It is twenty two minutes to six News Talks. Here'd be.
28:11
Speaker 1: My guest is Janet Zuchoa. She is the managing director
28:15
Speaker 1: of New Zealand Family Trust Services. Answering your questions, give
28:19
Speaker 1: us a call back in the mow and welcome back
28:24
Speaker 1: to News Talks. Be gosh, time flies when you're talking
28:26
Speaker 1: about the stuff. We're talking about trusts. My guest is
28:29
Speaker 1: Janet Zucchoa. She's Managing director of New Zealand Family Trust Services.
28:33
Speaker 1: And let's get into the calls now. We're going to
28:35
Speaker 1: have to move as quickly as we can because time
28:37
Speaker 1: is upon us.
28:38
Speaker 5: Ron.
28:38
Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, here it doing good things. What's good?
28:42
Speaker 5: Couple of couple of quick questions. A lot of these
28:45
Speaker 5: older family trusts have been set up where the trustees
28:50
Speaker 5: have full discretion of how the trust is managed and
28:54
Speaker 5: all the rest of it. Let's they view of beneficiary
28:58
Speaker 5: to be a discretionary benefit. Are they able to withhold
29:02
Speaker 5: information about the trust and not provide it to that
29:05
Speaker 5: beneficiary upon request?
29:07
Speaker 2: Ah, you're moving now into the disclosure obligations under the
29:10
Speaker 2: New Trust Act. So that's an interesting point in itself.
29:16
Speaker 2: It used to be under the old Act that used
29:18
Speaker 2: to be that, you know, people didn't actually necessarily know
29:20
Speaker 2: that they were beneficiaries. So there's a duty where you know,
29:23
Speaker 2: you can hold trustees to account, but to hold a
29:26
Speaker 2: trustee to an account, you've got to at least know
29:27
Speaker 2: that you're beneficiary, haven't you in the first instance?
29:29
Speaker 4: Yes?
29:30
Speaker 2: Yes, And so now under the new Trust Act there's
29:34
Speaker 2: sections there which layout that disclosure to be made to
29:38
Speaker 2: beneficiaries and factors to be taken into accounts. So I
29:43
Speaker 2: think that most trustees that I see do in detail
29:46
Speaker 2: the tell people that they are beneficiaries. But there are
29:48
Speaker 2: provisions also under that act not to not to disclose
29:53
Speaker 2: to beneficiaries that they are indeed beneficiaries and not to
29:56
Speaker 2: disclose information.
29:58
Speaker 5: What about the boats information that they're required to you know,
30:01
Speaker 5: how they're mandated by that new Act.
30:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, it's not necessarily strict mandate. There are
30:08
Speaker 2: there is a provision under the Act where you can
30:10
Speaker 2: you can hold information and not disclose. So as long
30:15
Speaker 2: as that long as the Act provisions are followed, then
30:17
Speaker 2: I guess.
30:18
Speaker 1: Hey, did you mention the expression of discretionary beneficiary?
30:21
Speaker 2: Run?
30:22
Speaker 1: Is that what's a discretionary beneficiary.
30:25
Speaker 2: Discrestionary beneficiaries is where where they are indeed beneficiary, but
30:29
Speaker 2: they are not entitled to anything as of right, so
30:32
Speaker 2: the trustees and trustees have to consider them. Okay, that's
30:36
Speaker 2: what they are entitled to be is considered, but benefiting
30:40
Speaker 2: is discretionary and at the discretion of the trustees.
30:43
Speaker 1: It sounds like a family trust where dads set up
30:45
Speaker 1: a trust and dad's trustee and decides whether that's what
30:49
Speaker 1: he's going to give.
30:49
Speaker 2: Each child absolutely, whereas fixed beneficiaries, fixed beneficiaries are actually
30:54
Speaker 2: in the trustee depending upon terms of the trustee, of course,
30:58
Speaker 2: but fixed manifactories will be entire or to capital and income,
31:01
Speaker 2: and that's that's usually stated for kids.
31:04
Speaker 1: It can be so complicated. I love the idea of
31:06
Speaker 1: secret trust, where you can have a secret trust that
31:08
Speaker 1: none of the beneficiaries know that they're and it's like that.
31:12
Speaker 2: Was that was the old time with it not now
31:15
Speaker 2: old days.
31:16
Speaker 1: Okay, hey, thanks for call Ron Lance.
31:18
Speaker 3: Hello, yeah, hi, So my question is I'm thirty five
31:24
Speaker 3: years old and I'm going to a free freehold house.
31:28
Speaker 3: And if I was to ever get in a relationship,
31:30
Speaker 3: it's not currently in a trust, but would it be
31:32
Speaker 3: worth putting in a trust purely for the purposes of
31:35
Speaker 3: protecting it in any possible future relationships?
31:38
Speaker 2: Definitely, So you don't really want to You don't want
31:41
Speaker 2: the nearest indist to come in and it's all fine
31:44
Speaker 2: while we're playing in the sandpit happily, but when that done,
31:47
Speaker 2: when you know, when we're starting to fight over the
31:49
Speaker 2: bucket and spade, then that's where things can get kind nasty.
31:53
Speaker 2: So trust work with them, plenty of time behind them.
31:57
Speaker 2: So you if you're going to protect or try to
32:00
Speaker 2: touch home, you want to do that well in advance
32:03
Speaker 2: of a relationship. So yes, indeed, talk to a lawyer
32:07
Speaker 2: put that. I would recommend that it would be put
32:09
Speaker 2: into a trust. But at the same time, when you
32:12
Speaker 2: are entering into a serious relationship, you do need to
32:15
Speaker 2: think about a properly relationship agreement and a good lawyer
32:19
Speaker 2: will be able to guide you on that.
32:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, Yeah, because during the ownership, I think, like
32:25
Speaker 3: I joined income would be paying for rates and insurance
32:27
Speaker 3: and some some of the ongoing expenses holding the house,
32:31
Speaker 3: even though and.
32:32
Speaker 2: So's and so. That's where you where you get into
32:34
Speaker 2: murky territory, which is why the property relationship is the
32:38
Speaker 2: agreement is really important.
32:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of things there. Yeah. Actually, it's the
32:43
Speaker 1: purpose of setting up the trust. There is quite a
32:45
Speaker 1: relevant one to whether the court's going to look through it,
32:47
Speaker 1: isn't it. So what's what's an example of a legitimate purpose.
32:50
Speaker 1: It's that a legitimate purpose. I'm about to get into
32:52
Speaker 1: a new relationship. We're going to bang my house and
32:53
Speaker 1: a trust so if it doesn't work out, they can't
32:56
Speaker 1: get their hands on it.
32:57
Speaker 2: That's not quite a legitimate I mean, that's that's illegitimate
33:01
Speaker 2: or No, No, that would be quite legitimate, because you're
33:04
Speaker 2: wanting to try try and protect protect the house.
33:07
Speaker 1: As opposed to I'm setting up a new business and
33:10
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into debt a lot and I'm
33:12
Speaker 1: going to save the family house. That sounds dodgier.
33:15
Speaker 2: No, while you're trying to protect the house there. But
33:18
Speaker 2: what wouldn't what probably wouldn't be tolerated, is you've been
33:22
Speaker 2: in a relationship for five years with your nearest and
33:25
Speaker 2: dearest and as that last last gentleman said, you know,
33:29
Speaker 2: joint income is going towards the outgoings of the house,
33:32
Speaker 2: the mortgage, the rates, the insurance, is that sort of thing,
33:35
Speaker 2: and you decide, oh, well, I think that I'll put
33:37
Speaker 2: this into a trust so that when I when I
33:41
Speaker 2: leave my wife or my wife lives at the husband,
33:44
Speaker 2: then it's all going to be mine. I mean, you're
33:46
Speaker 2: in the relationship and that's not going to be tolerated,
33:49
Speaker 2: I doubt by the courts.
33:51
Speaker 1: Okay, right, let's take another call Bill. Hello, Hello, I'm.
33:56
Speaker 6: A quick question.
33:57
Speaker 7: For a discretionary trust, the trustees decide to use the
34:04
Speaker 7: well the assets of their trust or the money in
34:06
Speaker 7: their trust a charity that doesn't benefit the beneficiaries.
34:12
Speaker 2: It would depend upon the terms of the trusteed. So
34:15
Speaker 2: you would need to look there.
34:17
Speaker 1: So that how and you're talking about there's a trust,
34:20
Speaker 1: there are some discretionary beneficiaries, but the person who set
34:23
Speaker 1: up the trust or the trustees also want to give
34:25
Speaker 1: some money to a charity. Which gives no benefit to anyone,
34:27
Speaker 1: but that charity beneficiaries. That God gets complicated, doesn't it.
34:31
Speaker 2: Well, the settler wanted the settler might have wanted that
34:35
Speaker 2: to happen, and so and the deed of trust he
34:38
Speaker 2: may actually provide for the trustees to have that power
34:41
Speaker 2: to put money into charities.
34:43
Speaker 1: Which tells me that a trust is much more flexible
34:46
Speaker 1: than people might imagine. Then, depending on the terms.
34:48
Speaker 2: Of it, very flexible device. That's one of the reasons
34:50
Speaker 2: why they've endured for so long.
34:53
Speaker 1: Any other follow up there.
34:54
Speaker 6: There, Yes, it's for some context, it's a wide ranging Indeed,
34:59
Speaker 6: it does have the word charity in it. The main
35:02
Speaker 6: trustee has passed away, the leftover trustees have got They
35:08
Speaker 6: say a verbal that this person wants to set up
35:11
Speaker 6: a trust, set up a charity at some stage. I
35:17
Speaker 6: think it doesn't necessarily mean family trust good set up
35:22
Speaker 6: a charity, but maybe personal So the end of end
35:25
Speaker 6: of trustees have decided that they will.
35:28
Speaker 2: Use Okay, so sounds like some good advices needed via
35:34
Speaker 2: lawyer on that gosh.
35:37
Speaker 1: So if you can set up so people basically can
35:40
Speaker 1: set up a trust where they can still sort of
35:42
Speaker 1: enjoy the assets et cetera. There are some discretionary beneficiaries,
35:47
Speaker 1: but you can still sort of do whatever you want
35:50
Speaker 1: with the assets and the trust up to a point
35:52
Speaker 1: if you journ.
35:53
Speaker 2: It up, well, trustees have to use the assets for
35:56
Speaker 2: the benefit of the beneficiaries. And also that well, that one, well, yes,
36:02
Speaker 2: that's actually not using it for that. It sounds like
36:05
Speaker 2: it's not using the money for the benefit of the beneficiaries.
36:08
Speaker 2: But the settler may also have wanted the trustees to
36:12
Speaker 2: be able to use money for charitable purposes.
36:14
Speaker 1: To okay, are is there a limit to other purposes
36:18
Speaker 1: that are not in favor of the beneficiaries? So, for instance,
36:22
Speaker 1: that sounds like all charitable purpose sounds like something their
36:24
Speaker 1: trustees might be able to do. But can they do
36:26
Speaker 1: other things that are not in favor of the beneficiaries?
36:31
Speaker 2: Deep question.
36:33
Speaker 1: That's a deep question with about two minutes to answer it,
36:37
Speaker 1: So about that. We'll come back with some more texts
36:40
Speaker 1: in just a moment. It's ten to Sex News Talk.
36:43
Speaker 1: Sa'd be and welcome back to the show. This is
36:46
Speaker 1: the weekend collector Smart Money. My guest is Janet Zuccoa.
36:49
Speaker 1: That's x u c coo A just for because it
36:53
Speaker 1: is a it's a new one for me. Janet, Look,
36:55
Speaker 1: we've got one. I've selected one text because we've only
36:58
Speaker 1: had a couple of minutes. Just a quick question, A
37:01
Speaker 1: trust house now for sale as one of two beneficiaries.
37:04
Speaker 1: Can the trust be dissolved if you're not happy with
37:07
Speaker 1: how trustees are dividing the sale all?
37:11
Speaker 2: Well? Again, for a question like that, there's lots of
37:15
Speaker 2: angles on that. I would urge in the first instance
37:18
Speaker 2: to sit down and have a sensible conversation with the
37:23
Speaker 2: trustees and with the other beneficiaries. Couldn't be dissolved? I
37:26
Speaker 2: doubt very much. It could be dissolved just on one
37:28
Speaker 2: beneficiary say so.
37:31
Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe one's getting more than the other one.
37:34
Speaker 2: Say not without the course to the courts. But if
37:38
Speaker 2: it's discretionary, well, trustees may may have the discretion on
37:42
Speaker 2: how they deal with those cell proceeds. Well, I wouldn't.
37:46
Speaker 2: If I was a beneficiar and I was missing out
37:48
Speaker 2: now on something like that, then I'd definitely get a
37:51
Speaker 2: little bit of advice and see what I could do
37:53
Speaker 2: for even up scales.
37:54
Speaker 1: In terms of finding a legal advice for this sort
37:56
Speaker 1: of stuff. You are there specific I mean you guys.
38:00
Speaker 1: You guys are trustees more than.
38:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so I would I would recommend that you
38:05
Speaker 2: would go to a good lawyer that understands trust law.
38:08
Speaker 2: Not all lawyers, you know, work in the space. So
38:11
Speaker 2: I definitely find a decent lawyer that works in the
38:14
Speaker 2: sphere of trust law if you and.
38:16
Speaker 1: If people are looking at setting if people are looking
38:18
Speaker 1: at setting up a trust, I mean, would they start?
38:21
Speaker 1: Could they start with the New Zealand Family Trust Services?
38:23
Speaker 2: You guys, yeah, before, and we don't everybody that crosses
38:26
Speaker 2: our pathway. We don't say yes absolutely you should set
38:29
Speaker 2: up a trust. We want to know the reasons why,
38:31
Speaker 2: and we want to want to see that that's a
38:33
Speaker 2: sensible course of action for an individual to do, because,
38:36
Speaker 2: as I said before, it's not a five minute exercise
38:39
Speaker 2: and you do it. Once it's set up, you do
38:41
Speaker 2: have to actually keep the compliance up. So I want
38:43
Speaker 2: to make sure that it's going to serve the person
38:46
Speaker 2: for why it's being set up. It's being set up.
38:49
Speaker 1: Gosh, we've only scratched the surface, really now I realized.
38:51
Speaker 1: But of course your book's going to be out at
38:53
Speaker 1: some later on this year or early next year. Trusts
38:56
Speaker 1: one two, three.
38:57
Speaker 2: It'll be in the bookshop, so I think in the
38:58
Speaker 2: next couple of weeks.
38:59
Speaker 1: Next time the week A couple of week week go
39:01
Speaker 1: trusts one, two, three, Hey Janets, thanks so much for
39:04
Speaker 1: your time. Time flies when you're having fun, doesn't it.
39:06
Speaker 2: Oh yes, thank you for having me.
39:08
Speaker 1: We're welcome and we'll be back same time next week.
39:11
Speaker 1: You can check out the podcast look for the Weekend
39:14
Speaker 1: Collective on the News Talks website or podcast. Thanks my producer,
39:18
Speaker 1: Tyra Roberts, and I'll look forward to your company again,
39:21
Speaker 1: same time next week. Sunday at six is next Evergrade
39:24
Speaker 1: Evening