Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Breaking the Silence: Mind-Body Support for Your Fertility Journey with Liz Bancroft

Transcript

Breaking the Silence: Mind-Body Support for Your Fertility Journey with Liz Bancroft · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  Liz Walton: Welcome to the home of fertility, a space for real conversations and expert insights about fertility, healing and creating family.
• 0:14
  Liz Walton: I'm Liz Walton.
• 0:17
  Helen Zee: And I'm Helen Z.
• 0:18
  Helen Zee: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey emotionally, physically and spiritually.
• 0:28
  Liz Walton: We talk about it all fertility, treatments, holistic support, relationships, mindset and the emotional highs and lows.
• 0:38
  Helen Zee: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  Liz Walton: We are so glad you are here, let's dive in.
• 0:53
  Liz Walton: Hello.
• 0:57
  Liz Walton: Hello, and it's absolutely lovely to have on my podcast today the wonderful and amazing Liz Bancroft, and Liz is an amazing woman who has really supported me in helping some tech issues out this morning.
• 1:16
  Liz Walton: So we can have a bit of a giggle here whenever we listen to this podcast, because I've been having some tech issues.
• 1:23
  Liz Walton: So, liz, how are you today?
• 1:25
  Liz Bancroft: I'm good, I'm good.
• 1:27
  Liz Bancroft: Liz, how are you feeling?
• 1:30
  Liz Walton: I'm good, a little bit frustrated and rustled, but you know what?
• 1:34
  Liz Walton: I am just absolutely excited that I get to speak to you and we get to talk about some extremely exciting and great information.
• 1:43
  Liz Walton: So first of all, liz, I want to be able to share a bio and just share who you are.
• 1:49
  Liz Walton: So this is Liz Bancroft and I want to share.
• 1:53
  Liz Walton: She's a registered psychologist, the founder of Hope Affirm Thrive, where she provides an evidence-based psychological support for individuals that are navigating fertility and fertility treatment.
• 2:08
  Liz Walton: Her practice integrates trauma-informed care with EMDR therapy awesome therapy recognizing that fertility journeys often activate past experiences and require psychological preparation.
• 2:25
  Liz Walton: Indeed, that definitely happened a lot with me Through my research, through Liz's research, should I say, and clinical work.
• 2:33
  Liz Walton: She's developed innovative approaches that include universal screening for neurodivergent traits Awesome, this day and age, as many women discover unrecognized adhd or autism during the stress of ivf.
• 2:49
  Liz Walton: Ah, that's so interesting.
• 2:51
  Liz Walton: I'm passionate or should I say liz is passionate about moving fertility psychological support from reactive crisis intervention to proactive pre-preparation and skill building that serves all patients.
• 3:09
  Liz Walton: Wow, liz, I really love that bio.
• 3:12
  Liz Walton: What an amazing woman you are.
• 3:16
  Liz Bancroft: Thank you.
• 3:17
  Liz Bancroft: It's my life's work.
• 3:18
  Liz Bancroft: I think everything I've experienced has brought me to this point, and we're really at a precipice right now.
• 3:25
  Liz Walton: We really are at a precipice, absolutely, and I know that you have just come back from the Fertility Society conference, and how was that for you?
• 3:34
  Liz Bancroft: Yes, it was interesting because obviously I'm very new to the industry, obviously just transitioning from being a patient myself into a professional in this space, and it's interesting because, whilst there was some great colleagues that I met with, my work was really well received.
• 3:57
  Liz Bancroft: The overall feeling that I got is that the industry still very much doesn't value the psychosocial aspect of fertility treatment and that was even evident by the fact that the conference itself was scheduled over Father's Day, which is not a very inclusive act when we're talking about making people fathers for the first time.
• 4:20
  Liz Bancroft: Interesting, yeah, and the fact that the psychosocial presentations were put up at the very back of the conference space in the smallest room and I saw very few, if any, doctors or much of the medical professionals come and attend some of those presentations that day.
• 4:40
  Liz Bancroft: So, yes, and the feeling from a lot of the nurses and the psychologists and the counsellors and the staff that were there was that psychological support is still very much undervalued by the industry.
• 4:58
  Liz Walton: Yeah, yes, and that's really interesting to hear, because that's I'm not a counsellor, you know.
• 5:04
  Liz Walton: I'm more of a coach.
• 5:06
  Liz Walton: I work so much with patterns and whatnot, and I so agree there, and that was a lot of my journey too.
• 5:12
  Liz Walton: So for me, it's just wonderful having someone like you saying these things, and I love what you stand for.
• 5:21
  Liz Walton: So thank you for being in this space.
• 5:25
  Liz Bancroft: Thank you for having me.
• 5:28
  Liz Walton: So I know one thing we were chatting about earlier on and some statistics here.
• 5:34
  Liz Walton: You know the shocking reality that behind IVF there's discontinuation and like 50% of patients stop treatment early.
• 5:42
  Liz Walton: And you know the statistic you showed here was 47.5.
• 5:48
  Liz Walton: Report about being just too stressed to continue.
• 5:51
  Liz Walton: I so understand that.
• 5:53
  Liz Walton: So, liz, please share about your thoughts, your experience here.
• 6:00
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, I mean, it's a kicker that statistic, isn't it?
• 6:03
  Liz Bancroft: Because you would assume that the primary reason would be, you know, financial barriers or medical complications, but the fact that you know it's psychological burden that is stopping people half people, you know continuing their treatment.
• 6:19
  Liz Bancroft: And we know that you know, statistically, on average you need three rounds of IVF in order to be somewhat successful.
• 6:26
  Liz Bancroft: And so if people can't even reach that, you know it really, it's really scary.
• 6:33
  Liz Bancroft: So that statistic has come out of.
• 6:39
  Liz Bancroft: There's quite a few studies now that was a latest research.
• 6:42
  Liz Bancroft: It was one done in, I think, a Scandinavian country.
• 6:46
  Liz Bancroft: It was quite a large study as well, and so it tells us that this isn't about people who can't afford treatment or have poor medical prognoses.
• 6:57
  Liz Bancroft: You know these are people whose emotional distress becomes so overwhelming that they walk away from their dreams of parenthood.
• 7:05
  Liz Bancroft: And if we think about what this means, you know, in Australia, where we have Medicare support partially for IVF, the psychological load is literally heavier than that.
• 7:17
  Liz Bancroft: And we know we're seeing 76% of women experiencing anxiety symptoms during treatment, 56 percent experiencing depressive symptoms at clinical levels.
• 7:27
  Liz Bancroft: And it just makes me angry, because this crisis is largely preventable.
• 7:34
  Liz Bancroft: You know, we know from the research that early psychological intervention dramatically reduces discontinuation rates.
• 7:41
  Liz Bancroft: Yet most fertility clinics still treat mental health support as an optional add-on rather than essential medical care.
• 7:51
  Liz Walton: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I absolutely so agree.
• 7:55
  Liz Walton: And I know, over my 10-year journey I definitely had to stop several times emotionally, mentally, for my own mental health and stress before I could continue and kind of re, you know, like debrief myself and come back to myself before I could start again.
• 8:14
  Liz Walton: It's so, it's so stressful and a lot of my clients are, you know, in high, high stress situations situations.
• 8:23
  Liz Walton: So another thing that happens, of course, was people being told and myself and I used to tell it to myself as well just relax, just relax.
• 8:34
  Liz Walton: And I know it's meant.
• 8:36
  Liz Walton: Well, you know there's wellness and love going in that, but it's not always that easy, isn't?
• 8:43
  Liz Bancroft: it.
• 8:43
  Liz Bancroft: I mean, yeah, you hear lots of that toxic positivity that you know, just relax, think positive, trust the process.
• 8:52
  Liz Bancroft: And this advice isn't just unhelpful, it's actually harmful, because it places the burden on patients to manage what is inherently an abnormal level of stress, what is inherently an abnormal level of stress.
• 9:09
  Liz Bancroft: And here's the thing you just can't just relax when your nervous system is in fight or flight mode.
• 9:11
  Liz Bancroft: You know, when someone tells you to relax while you're having a panic attack about your next appointment, it's like telling someone to sleep while the fire alarms are going off and your body needs specific tools to turn off those internal alarms first.
• 9:26
  Liz Bancroft: So that's where this program comes in is, you know the research is clear on what actually works?
• 9:33
  Liz Bancroft: You know group interventions are actually looking more effective than individual counseling for fertility populations, because isolation is one of the biggest problems.
• 9:45
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, and then skills-based approaches consistently outperform traditional talk therapy, because you don't need years of analysis, you just need concrete tools for managing anxiety and communicating with your medical teams.
• 10:00
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, and so they've, you know, recently done.
• 10:04
  Liz Bancroft: Um studied emdr specifically for fertility context and it shows significant reductions in anxiety, depression and ptsd symptoms.
• 10:14
  Liz Bancroft: You know there was a randomized control trial in turkey with 90 infertile women who showed EMDR had significant improvements comparable to CBT, and EMDR is that type of therapy that's going to really help your brain process stuck memories through bilateral stimulation so that they stop being so triggering in the here and now, and so for fertility patients, this might mean processing previous losses or traumatic procedures so that they don't derail your current treatment, and then, most importantly, early intervention prevents that treatment discontinuation as well.
• 10:55
  Liz Bancroft: So when we support Before the crisis develops, people stay engaged with the treatment and they cope better with the treatment.
• 11:04
  Liz Bancroft: And when we use just generic wellness approaches that tell you to meditate or to practice gratitude, it really misses the mark entirely because they don't address the specific psychological challenges of fertility treatment.
• 11:20
  Liz Walton: Yeah, yeah, and mark emdr is such an amazing um modality.
• 11:27
  Liz Walton: I, I love it.
• 11:28
  Liz Walton: I've got one.
• 11:28
  Liz Walton: I uh have so many different modalities to my kit bag and I so agree with you.
• 11:34
  Liz Walton: There's if we can really get access to that unconscious mind to support those change.
• 11:39
  Liz Walton: And you know again, it's all those, you know things that happen, the trauma histories you know and what has happened in our past and how we see it.
• 11:47
  Liz Walton: And also you know, for me as well, going back into that, that room every time, realizing I've failed again, I failed again.
• 11:54
  Liz Walton: You know it.
• 11:55
  Liz Walton: It.
• 11:55
  Liz Walton: It can be so triggering, isn't it?
• 11:58
  Liz Walton: and also, what I loved hearing, um is there's a whole new area, neurodivergent aspect to ourselves, you know, and that creates a whole new way of thinking, feeling and recognising information, isn't it?
• 12:15
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, exactly, and there's intersectionality between those two factors as well.
• 12:21
  Liz Bancroft: You know, putting the likelihood of neurodivergence or not aside, you know, trauma is a huge part of this process.
• 12:35
  Liz Bancroft: You know, one of the most important things that I want people to understand is why some people sail through IVF while others find it unbearable.
• 12:43
  Liz Bancroft: And it's not about being strong or being weak, it's about recognizing the hidden factors that make fertility treatment particularly triggering for some.
• 12:54
  Liz Bancroft: And so the first is the trauma history.
• 12:57
  Liz Bancroft: When you've got the World Health Organization saying that 70% of the world population have encountered trauma at some point in their lives, it means that people are entering fertility treatment carrying pre-existing trauma that gets activated by medical procedures, and it doesn't have to be big T trauma like abuse.
• 13:19
  Liz Bancroft: You know this includes medical trauma from painful procedures, childhood experiences of feeling powerless or even previous pregnancy losses.
• 13:32
  Liz Bancroft: And then there's the neurodivergence, which is where my research gets really interesting, because the pilot program that I've just run over the last 18 months, I found that approximately 90% of my fertility patients who identified as neurotypical actually showed elevated scores on neurodivergent trait measures.
• 13:55
  Liz Bancroft: And so these might be women who've never been diagnosed with autism or ADHD but have some, you know, subtle presentations that become overwhelming under IVF stress.
• 14:08
  Liz Bancroft: And then you've got you know the research that shows that autistic women have double the rates of PCOS and higher rates of endometriosis, which means that they're over-represented in fertility populations.
• 14:23
  Liz Bancroft: But here's the problem is female presentations of autism and ADHD are often missed or misunderstood.
• 14:31
  Liz Bancroft: You know, I've worked with patients who seem difficult when they're actually autistic and they're experiencing sensory overwhelm from clinic environments.
• 14:40
  Liz Bancroft: Or you know they seem non-compliant when they've had ADHD and they're struggling with the complex medication protocols.
• 14:48
  Liz Bancroft: So the fertility journey not only activates past trauma but it also creates trauma itself.
• 14:56
  Liz Bancroft: You know, every failed cycle, every miscarriage, every invasive procedure can create medical trauma that compounds over time.
• 15:05
  Liz Bancroft: And when we identify these patterns early and provide targeted support, we can prevent them from derailing treatment yeah, absolutely, and and it's not always the treatment as well.
• 15:19
  Liz Walton: I mean that can be part of it, but then it's how we psychologically turn inwards and attack the self as well.
• 15:22
  Liz Walton: I mean that can be part of it, but then it's how we psychologically turn inwards and attack the self as well, isn't it?
• 15:26
  Liz Walton: There's just all these different components, and I suppose that's the mind-body connection.
• 15:32
  Liz Walton: What's wrong with me?
• 15:33
  Liz Walton: Why can't I have a baby?
• 15:35
  Liz Walton: And I know that was a lot of my self attack.
• 15:40
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, and that stuff and I use schema a lot in my IVF program as well because that inner critic, those negative beliefs that you form about yourself over time, they generally start pretty early on.
• 15:56
  Liz Bancroft: You know they're things that we've been told by somebody else or we think are relevant to us based on our observations of others, and so you know all of that is being activated.
• 16:08
  Liz Bancroft: It's that small t trauma stuff from very early on.
• 16:11
  Liz Bancroft: The really subtle things, like you know, the bullying in school, or maybe you had parents that you know didn't quite meet your needs, they weren't abusive or anything like that, but you know maybe weren't great your needs, they weren't abusive or anything like that, but you know maybe weren't great at connecting emotionally or saying that they were proud of you or you know, whatever it is.
• 16:30
  Liz Bancroft: And these are the threads that can be really really subtle and people don't know they're there until they're activated, until you know it's somewhat too late until they're activated until, you know, it's somewhat too late.
• 16:44
  Liz Walton: And, of course, if we're creating, if we're being in stress, then all those stressful situations from the past start to connect to it.
• 16:54
  Liz Walton: And, yeah, it can create a lot of discomfort, can't it?
• 16:58
  Liz Walton: Yeah?
• 16:59
  Liz Walton: Yeah, so the mind-body connection for fertility, I mean, there's chronic stress.
• 17:27
  Liz Walton: It just impacts the outcomes.
• 17:27
  Liz Walton: And so tell me about, you know, when we've got the different stages of the IVF, you know, and the retrieval and getting the eggs, you, it's, it's quite a process that I remember going through.
• 17:29
  Liz Walton: And so I'm surely all this mind-body connection with how we deal with it and stress it must impact it massively yeah, and?
• 17:38
  Liz Bancroft: and the mind-body connection isn't fertility or infertility, isn't new age thinking right, it's measurable science that directly affects treatment outcomes.
• 17:49
  Liz Bancroft: So Dr Alice Doma, who was one of the keynote speakers, she's awesome.
• 17:55
  Liz Bancroft: She's awesome at the Fertility Conference this year.
• 17:57
  Liz Bancroft: You know her groundbreaking research over the last 34 years has demonstrated.
• 18:03
  Liz Bancroft: You know her groundbreaking research over the last 34 years has demonstrated that, while infertility definitely causes significant psychological distress, mind-body interventions can dramatically improve both emotional well-being and pregnancy outcomes.
• 18:15
  Liz Bancroft: You know she had that landmark study where it consistently showed that women who completed her 10-week mind-body program for infertility and at the time it combined CBT and relaxation, training and stress management and social support they achieved pregnancy rates of 52 to 55 percent, compared to just 20 percent in the control groups who didn't receive the intervention.
• 18:40
  Liz Bancroft: So that represents nearly a tripling of pregnancy rates, and you know.
• 18:46
  Liz Bancroft: And then there's her 2011 IVF study that showed that the benefits only emerged after participants completed at least five sessions, indicating that that real skill development in stress management is crucial rather than just like a placebo effect.
• 19:05
  Liz Bancroft: Management is crucial rather than just like a placebo effect.
• 19:06
  Liz Bancroft: And so you know this really just connects directly to what I've seen in my private practice for years is that chronic stress disrupts your HPA access.
• 19:14
  Liz Bancroft: You know your body's main stress response system and when it's dysregulated it affects your hormone profiles, which affects how you respond to fertility medications.
• 19:26
  Liz Bancroft: Elevated cortisol levels can impact egg quality and implantation success, and we're seeing higher inflammation markers in highly distressed patients, and inflammation interferes with reproductive processes as well.
• 19:40
  Liz Bancroft: And then I don't know if you're aware, liz, of that systematic review published in 2024, the Zanatula study, where they tracked stress levels throughout IVF cycles and they found something really crucial that chronic stress has its most significant impact at the oocyte retrieval stage.
• 20:01
  Liz Bancroft: So egg collection and women with lower stress levels before egg collection had significantly higher pregnancy rates.
• 20:10
  Liz Bancroft: And so when you look at that and Domar's research establishing that addressing psychological impact of infertility isn't just about emotional support, it's about evidence-based interventions that can meaningfully improve conception outcomes, you know, with one meta-analysis confirming these findings, you know we've got one study showing that participants were 4.47 times more likely to conceive when they received proper psychological support.
• 20:40
  Liz Bancroft: But here's where it's frustrating is that instead of providing proactive psychological support, most clinics just wait until people are in crisis.
• 20:51
  Liz Walton: Do not yeah.
• 20:52
  Liz Bancroft: It's more like just, you know, waiting until somebody has a heart attack to talk about cardiovascular health.
• 20:58
  Liz Bancroft: You know, we know for a lot of conditions that early intervention works, yet we're still treating mental health as an afterthought rather than an essential component of fertility care.
• 21:12
  Liz Walton: Absolutely, and this is why we're creating the Fertility Expo is about come and learn and educate and grow and have an understanding.
• 21:22
  Liz Walton: And, yeah, I'm so passionate and I just love what I'm hearing from you and I didn't know about that piece of paper that came out, but I did.
• 21:32
  Liz Walton: You know I was going through IVF from 2006 onwards, for sort of 10 years, and Dr Alice's, domar's books I read with enthusiasm and passion and love.
• 21:46
  Liz Walton: I just loved her work so I'm very excited she was speaking there and I learned so much and you know, for me the journey, the fertility journey, was a really big time of coming home and healing myself yeah yeah and some people wait until it's too late to do that after the fertility journeys, once they're already pregnant or grieving.
• 22:05
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah absolutely so.
• 22:08
  Liz Walton: let's talk about some green flags versus red flags.
• 22:12
  Liz Walton: Yeah, there's some really wonderful practical framework and I know, with the work you're doing, your pilot program there's.
• 22:20
  Liz Walton: Yes, share with me.
• 22:22
  Liz Bancroft: Yes, pilot program yes, share with me.
• 22:27
  Liz Bancroft: Yes.
• 22:27
  Liz Bancroft: So I wanted to give your listeners practical ways to assess their emotional readiness for IBF, because self-awareness is the first step to getting appropriate support.
• 22:33
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, so I would say to anyone listening, the green flags, the signs that you're emotionally prepared, would be things like you know, am I able to advocate for myself with my medical teams?
• 22:46
  Liz Bancroft: You know, can you ask questions?
• 22:48
  Liz Bancroft: Can you say I need you to explain that again?
• 22:51
  Liz Bancroft: Or you know, this procedure is painful for me, can we modify it?
• 22:56
  Liz Bancroft: You know, do you have those stress management strategies that actually work for you?
• 23:01
  Liz Bancroft: Not just you know I should meditate, but tools that you actually use for you.
• 23:02
  Liz Bancroft: Not just you know I should meditate, but tools that you actually use when you're overwhelmed, things that are tried and tested.
• 23:11
  Liz Bancroft: Other green flags are things like you know, can you tolerate uncertainty while staying hopeful, because IVF involves so much waiting and so much not knowing?
• 23:22
  Liz Bancroft: And you, you know, can you recover reasonably well from setbacks as well?
• 23:27
  Liz Bancroft: Maybe not immediately, but within days or weeks, rather than, you know, taking months to recover.
• 23:34
  Liz Bancroft: So if you can do all that, then I'd say that, yeah, you're pretty emotionally ready for IVF and you're going to be able to keep your acute and hopefully chronic stress levels at bay as you go through some of these processes and procedures.
• 23:50
  Liz Bancroft: But the red flags maybe some signs that you might need additional support are going to include, you know, do you suffer from panic attacks or you know anxiety about appointments?
• 24:03
  Liz Bancroft: Do you avoid or cancel medical procedures because they are unbearable?
• 24:08
  Liz Bancroft: Do you feel hopeless and defective or broken?
• 24:12
  Liz Bancroft: Is your relationship under strain due to the treatment stress?
• 24:18
  Liz Bancroft: And do you have past trauma that could potentially be triggered by some of these procedures?
• 24:26
  Liz Bancroft: Because you know, here's what's crucial is, if you're recognizing red flags, that doesn't mean you're not ready for treatment, and that's what often women are really afraid of is, if I tell somebody how much I'm struggling, then they're going to not let me do it Right, and so it doesn't mean that you're not ready for treatment.
• 24:48
  Liz Bancroft: It just means that you're ready for support.
• 24:49
  Liz Bancroft: You know, because some of these responses are completely normal and treatable, but we need to be able to address them directly rather than ignoring or minimizing them.
• 25:01
  Liz Walton: Absolutely, and we don't know what we don't know, and it's always good to learn new tools and techniques to support the mind and the body to move forward.
• 25:09
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, and that's what I'll be doing at the expo is I'll be teaching really specific techniques for each of these challenges and tools that you can use immediately when you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious or triggered by the treatment.
• 25:23
  Liz Walton: That is just so awesome.
• 25:24
  Liz Walton: So thank you for those words, and it really is about how can we set ourselves up for success, isn't it?
• 25:36
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:38
  Liz Walton: Yeah, and so yeah, carry on.
• 25:39
  Liz Bancroft: No, no, go ahead, yeah.
• 25:40
  Liz Bancroft: And so yeah, carry on no no go ahead.
• 26:00
  Liz Walton: And so the more we can set ourselves up for success, the more we can walk that path of IVF fertility treatment, whatever it is for the individual, in the best frame and mindset possible, because it is a bumpy ride, you know, no matter, we can't take out the bumpy ride, it is a bumpy ride.
• 26:06
  Liz Walton: You know, no matter, we can't take out the bumpy ride, it is a bumpy ride.
• 26:08
  Liz Walton: So what actually works?
• 26:09
  Liz Walton: You know what are your research back?
• 26:10
  Liz Bancroft: techniques.
• 26:10
  Liz Bancroft: So the research is absolutely clear on what works for fertility populations and it's not what most people are getting.
• 26:18
  Liz Bancroft: So I mean Alice Doma's research proves that skills-based interventions consistently outperform the traditional talk therapy, that concrete tools and managing anxiety and communicating medical teams are what you need.
• 26:35
  Liz Bancroft: And her studies show that the group interventions, as we said, are more effective than individual counselling, because isolation is one of those biggest problems, and that trauma-informed care addresses root causes rather than just managing symptoms.
• 26:51
  Liz Bancroft: So instead of just relax, we're identifying what's actually driving the overwhelm and addressing it directly.
• 26:59
  Liz Bancroft: And so this means assuming a trauma history rather than waiting for people to disclose it, and creating safety through predictability and through choice.
• 27:11
  Liz Bancroft: And so Doma's research shows us that early intervention prevents treatment.
• 27:19
  Liz Bancroft: Discontinuation prevents treatment discontinuation.
• 27:27
  Liz Bancroft: You know, when support happens before crisis, people stay engaged, and that's why this 50% discontinuation rate I mentioned earlier is largely preventable.
• 27:49
  Liz Bancroft: So at the expo I'll be teaching four specific techniques that I use religiously through my private practice as a way of regulating the nervous system.
• 27:54
  Liz Bancroft: But here's what's the big difference is that that will help with acute stress.
• 27:57
  Liz Bancroft: But if there is any chance that you have unresolved trauma history and a lot of my clients come to me with, you know, depression, anxiety and stress, and they'll sit there and they'll say, liz, but I don't have trauma.
• 28:11
  Liz Bancroft: And you know well, we know statistically that's unlikely.
• 28:15
  Liz Bancroft: And people say, yeah, but I can talk about my trauma and it doesn't impact me.
• 28:19
  Liz Bancroft: And again, that may be true, but it also means that you just might have some really well-developed dissociative responses that are happening when you do talk about that trauma.
• 28:30
  Liz Bancroft: And so if we look at it from a trauma point of view and trauma work really sets you up for long-term stability across time as well- yeah, it's a life skill.
• 28:43
  Liz Walton: Once you've got it, you can use it for all different things that come up in life.
• 28:47
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, but it clears out the neural network of things that have been activated so that when you're encountering stressful situations in future, you are only responding to the stuff that is happening in the here and now.
• 29:00
  Liz Bancroft: It is not the reaction to that, plus the history that it's connected to as well.
• 29:04
  Liz Bancroft: And so this is why I say that this is really an important process of breaking into generational cycles, because if you treat your trauma before IVF, you'll go through IVF, hopefully complete it, hopefully be successful, and then your pregnancy is easier to bear because, again, trauma has not been activated, and then you're less likely to have birth trauma, and then you're less likely to have birth trauma and you are then going to have stronger mother-infant attachment because your old attachment wounds aren't being activated once your first child comes along, and then your child is going to have better mental health from having safe, nurturing, attuned parents who are regulated and emotionally intelligent and insightful, and then so on and so forth, you know, and the cycle just flows from there.
• 30:03
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, so this is really setting you up for the rest of your life.
• 30:10
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, and I can't stress how amazing the results are when people invest and do this work.
• 30:17
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:20
  Liz Walton: I feel like you've just talked about my journey, you know, from being quite a broken individual and the fertility journey really, you know, helped me change my whole life.
• 30:31
  Liz Walton: Yeah, and because I was so thirsty to learn was already a therapist but I didn't know that much but it like accelerated my thirst and need to learn more and just adding all of these modalities for me.
• 30:44
  Liz Walton: I know I'm not a counselor, psychologist, but I added so many others of nlp training and just kept adding and adding and learning because I was so thirsty and, you know, basically it gave me all these tools that helped heal me.
• 30:56
  Liz Walton: You know, and you know all of those things that you said, I'm just like, oh yeah, that helped me and that's how I feel I became.
• 31:04
  Liz Walton: I became a much better individual, woman, wife, mother.
• 31:10
  Liz Walton: You know all of these things and it's that's why, as well, for the Fertility Expo, we're starting from preconception.
• 31:16
  Liz Walton: You know, when you're thinking of getting pregnant, you know, come and look at these tools, look at all of these ways we can support ourselves to be the best version of ourselves, because then there may be fertility issues and pregnancy and postpartum, and by healing them from the beginning, you know, the rest may flow much easier.
• 31:35
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, 100%, and I've had that same lived experience as well, liz, and I don't get any of my clients to do anything that I haven't been willing to do or haven't done myself, and so, yeah, I can really attest to that.
• 31:49
  Liz Bancroft: You know, lifelong change that we see when we address the real underlying issues that we see when we address the real underlying issues.
• 31:59
  Liz Walton: It's just so beautiful and so powerful and you know, women like yourself are so needed on this journey and when we've had that personal experience it kind of heightens, I suppose, our deep compassion of wanting to support everybody else.
• 32:14
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, and you see the things that you know other professionals in this space haven't necessarily seen themselves when you're coming from a lived experience space.
• 32:29
  Liz Walton: Oh, I love you, Liz, and I haven't even met you properly.
• 32:32
  Liz Walton: I can't wait to meet you at the Expo.
• 32:34
  Liz Walton: So I know you have a message, a mantra, and please share that with everybody here.
• 32:43
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah.
• 32:43
  Liz Bancroft: So what I want every listener to remember is that that 50% discontinuation rate is largely preventable with the right support at the right time.
• 32:55
  Liz Bancroft: So don't let psychological distress be the reason that you stop treatment.
• 33:00
  Liz Bancroft: So if you're planning IVF or you're currently in treatment either way, please assess your emotional readiness honestly using that green flag red flag framework, and if you're seeing red flags, that's valuable information.
• 33:16
  Liz Bancroft: It's not a character flaw.
• 33:18
  Liz Bancroft: And, most importantly, you deserve support that actually works for fertility populations, not generic approaches that miss the mark.
• 33:27
  Liz Bancroft: And so you'll get a taste of those at the Expo, where I'll demonstrate some of those evidence-based tools so you can experience them firsthand and take them home with you.
• 33:38
  Liz Bancroft: And the more that we normalize psychological support as essential healthcare rather than optional self-care, the more people can complete their fertility journey feeling empowered instead of traumatized by it, and that is what drives everything that I do, yeah.
• 33:58
  Liz Walton: Yeah, I hear you, I hear you and that's it.
• 34:02
  Liz Walton: It's about being able to learn tools that allow us to be the best version of ourselves, and it's okay if we don't know them, if we were never taught and um, it doesn't mean that we failed.
• 34:16
  Liz Walton: It means that we get the opportunity to become more, in a way yeah exactly.
• 34:24
  Liz Walton: Yeah, well, I am so grateful to have had this really deep and like juicy conversation um with you, and the fact that you're going to be at the fertility expo um to share.
• 34:36
  Liz Walton: She's going to um.
• 34:37
  Liz Walton: Liz're going to be at the Fertility Expo to share.
• 34:39
  Liz Walton: Liz is going to be doing this amazing workshop and sharing these evidence-based tools.
• 34:44
  Liz Walton: I will be there.
• 34:45
  Liz Walton: I'm going to make sure I'm there too, because, for me, I love to learn anything that can allow me to better me as well as, then, to share tools.
• 34:57
  Liz Walton: So I'm so grateful that you're here and, and you know, the more we can talk about this, the more the stigma can just disappear, you know, and we don't need to walk this path alone.
• 35:10
  Liz Walton: We can have community and we can learn and we can grow and and yeah, it's kind of like you're worth it kind of thing, isn't it?
• 35:21
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah, and I just wish that the system would also see the value and believe that we're worth it too.
• 35:30
  Liz Bancroft: And so you know, for any of your listeners listening, you know if they can attend the expo and see me, you know my 30-minute talk or the 45-minute workshop where they can hands-on practice those techniques, then great, anyone who can attend.
• 35:52
  Liz Bancroft: Or if you're in Melbourne where you can travel there, I'd really encourage that they do, because you'll not only learn these tools but you'll connect with others who understand what you're going through, and that peer support is incredibly healing it is.
• 36:07
  Liz Bancroft: And for anyone that we won't get to see, you know, if you're contemplating support yourself right now, the only way to get support is to either hope that your fertility clinic has offered you the free counselling that is meant to be embedded in the Medicare rebates for your IVF treatments.
• 36:37
  Liz Bancroft: For your IVF treatments, some clinics are really inconsistent with how much they offer or they restrict it to just one session, which tends to be very psychoeducational at best.
• 36:42
  Liz Bancroft: Or you get a GP mental health care plan and you'll get 10 sessions under that per calendar year.
• 36:52
  Liz Bancroft: But in my experience with trauma work in particular, you need at least 15 sessions on average to get meaningful change, and so right now I am advocating and lobbying the government to honour what the Fertility Society guidelines last year published was that psychological health and mental health care needs to be very much funded by the government as a core part of this process, and so I do have a changeorg petition for anyone who sees this vision and would like to support the cause as well.
• 37:37
  Liz Walton: I love that.
• 37:37
  Liz Walton: Send that to me and let me see what we can do with that, and I'll have a word with Helen Z as well.
• 37:44
  Liz Walton: So thank you for sharing that.
• 37:45
  Liz Walton: Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
• 37:47
  Liz Walton: Oh, my pleasure.
• 37:49
  Liz Walton: Now, beautiful Liz, where can people find you?
• 37:53
  Liz Walton: I will obviously have this on the show notes, too, but where can people find you?
• 37:56
  Liz Walton: So, you obviously have this on the show notes too, but where can people find you?
• 37:57
  Liz Bancroft: So you can find all the details about my program at wwwhopeaffirmthrivecomau.
• 38:07
  Liz Bancroft: So for those who can't make it to the Expo, I offer that same evidence-based support through my online program, which is designed specifically for fertility populations.
• 38:19
  Liz Bancroft: It is similar to Alice Doma's program.
• 38:23
  Liz Bancroft: It is an eight-week program that runs through psychoeducation, nervous system regulation, emdr techniques as part of a group to process the acute stress of fertility, and then also we have our full day emdr workshop where we will help you process all your past trauma that may contribute to a chronic stress response during the process as well, and all of it is online.
• 38:55
  Liz Bancroft: All of it is double blind, so you don't have to tell anyone anything about what you're working on.
• 39:00
  Liz Bancroft: It is very private and it is designed to work around your IVF and your work schedules, not against it, because we know women lose 28 hours of work a month just to go through one IVF cycle, and so I've purposely set this up so that it's accessible for everyone.
• 39:20
  Liz Bancroft: So your EMDR workshop the full day is on a Sunday, doesn't clash with any appointments or any work for most people, and all of our group Q&A sessions online are done either on weekends or late evenings, after everyone's back from work as well.
• 39:40
  Liz Walton: Oh wow, Liz, that is just beautiful that you've thought of all of that, so it takes away less time.
• 39:46
  Liz Walton: Oh my goodness, you're amazing.
• 39:50
  Liz Bancroft: Thank you.
• 39:51
  Liz Bancroft: I just need people to see the value in it, though.
• 39:55
  Liz Bancroft: Unfortunately, selling preventative care to the public has been hard.
• 40:00
  Liz Bancroft: So far it's challenging.
• 40:02
  Liz Walton: And again this is yeah, it's challenging.
• 40:05
  Liz Walton: This is why we're doing the expo.
• 40:07
  Liz Walton: It's about let's bring everybody up so we can shout all these amazing people like yourself that are doing this deep work and especially when we've walked the path ourselves about.
• 40:18
  Liz Walton: We can support you, we can help you, and here I am.
• 40:22
  Liz Walton: So I'm really honoured that we can showcase you and, you know, shout out about the work that you're doing because, as you say, it's about making this preventable.
• 40:33
  Liz Bancroft: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:34
  Liz Bancroft: And my dream at the end of the day is, you know, that a program like this should be embedded as a chosen add-on in every IVF clinic in the country.
• 40:46
  Liz Bancroft: Would be my vision, but we'll see Well let's work towards it, Liz.
• 40:53
  Liz Walton: I think this is a beautiful, a beautiful, you know thing to keep in mind and to create.
• 40:59
  Liz Walton: Oh, Liz, that's awesome.
• 41:00
  Liz Walton: Is there anything else you would like to share before we finish off, or have we covered everything we can do?
• 41:10
  Liz Bancroft: No, I think we've covered everything, covered everything I guess I just want to mention.
• 41:22
  Liz Bancroft: I know that for a lot of people the idea of potentially identifying neurodivergence can be a confronting process, particularly if you're not expecting it, and so I would say that anyone who's contemplating looking at my program or doing individual work with a therapist of their own is to not be afraid of that, because you know it is a social disability and we are getting better at being more affirming and more accepting of the diversity that is in the human neurotype.
• 42:01
  Liz Bancroft: You know this is the same as the diversity we see in age and now gender, sexuality, race, religion.
• 42:11
  Liz Bancroft: You know it doesn't make it is not something wrong with you, it is just it gives you a different lens to see yourself through, and when you do that, it really means that you can shape your life to fit in a way that supports you moving forward, and I can't stress how empowering that can be, and I can't stress how empowering that can be, Difficult at first, yes, but empowering once you get to that point of acceptance and pride about it as well.
• 42:54
  Liz Bancroft: You know, as you pointed out, I wouldn't have been the mother, the psychologist, the wife, the friend that I am today, had I not found out about my autism and now I'm suspecting ADHD as well, because it's reframed how I see myself and how I fit into the world and how I show up and how I care for myself and how I parent my son and how I parent my son, who's also autistic.
• 43:22
  Liz Bancroft: So, yeah, I'd say for anyone who is worried about that aspect that I've touched on today, you know, please don't let that be the thing that stops you, because if you think about it now, it will come out at some point.
• 43:35
  Liz Bancroft: If you don't address it now, it always does.
• 43:38
  Liz Bancroft: The amount of times I get women who are showing up with postnatal depression or anxiety which it's not that, it's actually that their coping strategies have now fallen short, entering into parenthood and it's the neurodivergence revealing itself or women who had been diagnosed in perimenopause once those hormones shift, you know it will come up, whether you realise it or not, and so the earlier we look into it, the better it is for your mental health moving forward.
• 44:16
  Liz Walton: Absolutely, and this is what I say.
• 44:18
  Liz Walton: The fertility journey, believe it or not, is such a gift because you get to find yourself, and then you have the tools to support the next generation.
• 44:29
  Liz Walton: Liz, it's been an absolute honour to talk to you.
• 44:32
  Liz Walton: Thank you so much for the work that you do in this world.
• 44:34
  Liz Walton: I am really, really looking forward to and excited to meeting you in person for the melbourne fertility expo, which is happening on the 8th of november.
• 44:44
  Liz Walton: It's a beautiful, long day and liz will be there and she'll be sharing all of these tools that she's been talking about while she's doing some an evidence-based tools workshop and um.
• 44:56
  Liz Walton: I'm just so grateful that you've taken your time out of your busy time, your busy day, to talk to me.
• 45:02
  Liz Walton: So thank you so much.
• 45:04
  Liz Bancroft: Thank you for having me, Liz.
• 45:05
  Liz Walton: It's a pleasure, all right, and with that I shall bid thee goodbye, and just remembering to everybody is to know that you are worth it, and when life feels like it's stopping you, take a breath and let's see what are the green flags and the red flags and let's look for support.
• 45:26
  Liz Walton: Thank you so much.
• 45:30
  Helen Zee: Thanks for joining us at the Home of Fertility.
• 45:32
  Helen Zee: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort and connection.
• 45:39
  Helen Zee: If this podcast resonated.
• 45:41
  Liz Walton: Please share it, leave a review or subscribe.
• 45:44
  Liz Walton: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 45:49
  Helen Zee: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook.
• 45:54
  Helen Zee: At Australian Fertility Summit.
• 45:58
  Liz Walton: Remember, the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom or something new just made for you.
• 46:06
  Liz Walton: Take care and we'll see you next time.