Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Reimagining Medical Education with Dr. Sharmila Makhija

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Reimagining Medical Education with Dr. Sharmila Makhija · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  This is Scott Becker with the Beckers HealthCare
• 0:03
  podcast.
• 0:03
  I'm thrilled today to be joined by an
• 0:05
  extraordinary leader.
• 0:07
  But to me, more than being an extraordinary
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  leader,
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  we're we're joined today by doctor Sharmila Makeeja.
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  And doctor Makeeja is not just a great
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  leader, she is a great person.
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  She's got this fasting role currently,
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  is being the founding dean
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  of the Alice
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  Walton School of Medicine, an amazing journey. Doctor
• 0:28
  Makeeja, can you take a moment and introduce
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  yourself
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  and tell us about the Ellis Walton School
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  of Medicine?
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  Well, thank you so much, Scott. Really appreciate
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  you inviting me, and,
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  it's just been a pleasure to get to
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  know you over the past couple of years.
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  I'm just a big fan, a great admirer
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  of all your the work you've done. So
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  thank you. Thank you.
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  So as you said, I I am the
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  founding dean and CEO of the Alice Walton
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  School of Medicine. We affectionately call it awesome.
• 0:57
  In fact, Alice, the the family is very
• 1:00
  careful and very humble. Don't want their name
• 1:02
  on things. But when she saw that the
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  acronym
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  became awesome, she immediately was sold on that.
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  So,
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  we're we call ourselves awesome. It it's a
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  new four year,
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  med program, and we're based in Bentonville, Arkansas.
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  We I joined in '23.
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  It was founded
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  in '21, and we were gone through the
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  first sets of accreditation
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  so that we welcomed our first class in
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  July '25. And,
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  really, we were created with a clear purpose
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  to reimagine
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  medical education by integrating rigorous clinical training with
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  the arts, the humanities,
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  and whole health principles.
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  Thank you. And and what's Yeah. There's so
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  many different routes to go down, but let
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  me start with this.
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  Your personal journey to becoming founding dean and
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  CEO
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  of a medical school Mhmm. What sort of
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  led you to this spot? How did this
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  come together?
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  So I I can't say that I was
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  looking for this. I mean, I don't think
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  you get this kind of opportunity very often,
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  but, you know, I knew a lot of
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  the teams on the search committee that asked
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  advice about who to recruit and and, you
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  know, how when they were forming the school
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  to get some input.
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  And then at one point, they said, well,
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  why don't you look at the school? And,
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  because I gave them names of some of
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  my
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  colleagues that I thought would be interested. And
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  as I started to learn more,
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  I saw a a really unique opportunity
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  to,
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  not only start a new medical school, but
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  you have
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  you know, it could be scary if you
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  thought about it too hard, but, you know,
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  there's no university attached and no health system,
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  and you were going to be sitting on
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  the campus of a world class museum. And
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  I thought, you know, over the years of
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  of being a department chair and having,
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  you know, students
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  that start residency
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  programs in your program or residents that sign
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  up to do their first job, we had
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  to do a lot of retraining and understanding
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  of how do you actually practice medicine in
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  in in this day and age, and how
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  do you keep up with it? And we'd
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  always say to ourselves on on our teams,
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  if we could just go back and and
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  and shift how we teach
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  medical education
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  to better prepare a student
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  to to face the issues in the world
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  of being a physician,
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  this is what we would do. And so
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  when this opportunity came, I thought, well,
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  now it's now or never to try to
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  see if we can actually
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  make that change. And, you know, meeting Alice
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  and the team, it it was very clear
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  that mission and vision aligned with my own
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  values and principles.
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  And so it really it just clicked for
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  us. And, because we had to be able
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  to work on it together,
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  to to create this vision
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  that could be implemented. And now we're on
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  that mission of how do we replicate
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  our successes so that we can create this
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  education
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  that other schools could potentially use as well.
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  And
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  let me ask you this question, doctor Makeda.
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  This this issue of right now, people go
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  to four years of college, four years of
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  medical school, three to four years of residency,
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  and and often a fellowship.
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  So we end up in a spot where
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  people aren't out yet practicing till 31, 32
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  in many places.
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  We've got this tremendous shortage of doctors. We've
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  got a tremendous
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  aging population that has lots of health needs.
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  There are other nations, and we're the huge
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  beneficiary of this, where they're able to get
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  people out and practicing a couple years o
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  earlier than that. And thank god for those
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  people immigrating to to this country Mhmm. Or
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  or we'd be even more short, but that's
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  not necessarily a win because it's it's somewhat
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  a zero sum game because we're
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  those doctors are leaving those countries with less
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  doctors per capita. But is there a way
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  to shorten the medical education process?
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  We are so short specialists in so many
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  places. I don't even like to talk about
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  primary care anymore because they say we're, you
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  know, a couple 100,000 short only produce 10,000
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  primary care doctors a year. So it's almost
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  we're never gonna catch up there, but on
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  specialties,
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  hard and hard to access. Is there a
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  way to
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  accelerate medical education
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  at all? And did you did you look
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  at some of those issues as you're starting
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  a brand new medical school and and not
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  stuck with all the doctrine or challenges that
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  people have had at at existing schools?
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  Yes. I I mean, I think that's an
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  ongoing
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  review, and I think some schools are starting
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  to look at shortening,
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  you know, perhaps to three years instead of
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  four years.
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  You know,
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  we're not there yet for us because we
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  are a new school, and we really
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  we we took the approach of putting in
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  back into education
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  the essentials that I feel were not
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  being focused on. And if you look at
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  how the world evolves, and right now, everybody's
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  talking about AI, right, and technology. And yet
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  if you if you were to survey students
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  to understand
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  their
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  understanding of the of technology,
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  over 50% will say they're overwhelmed.
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  So we're trying to put in
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  the pieces that we feel are the gaps
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  that we see even when you do produce
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  the doctors and they're out there. And and
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  even if you have, you know, a shortage,
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  what we feel strongly is that we're not
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  educating them in the right way to handle
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  the the adversities.
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  So I think part of that is the
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  burnout that we see that doctors aren't staying
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  as long in the field as we once
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  saw them stay in. So we're we're trying
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  to address the gaps that we see. So
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  we're we're addressing whole person care, whole health
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  care that's being put back into the curriculum,
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  but we're starting with even their own self
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  care and how do they take care of
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  themselves to take care better care of others.
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  And we're hoping to be able to bridge
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  that gap of the burnout, the resiliency
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  that needs to be in there so they
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  are staying in the field longer,
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  and happier and healthier for themselves that better
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  serves the communities that they're in.
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  No. And and I love that. And let
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  me take you to that question. You're you're
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  in Arkansas, which is a somewhat rural state.
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  Yes. How you talked about people staying in
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  the communities they're in.
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  Is there a way to address some of
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  the big gaps that we have in rural
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  health care,
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  and that seem to be
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  accelerating as more and more people move to
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  the 50 largest metro areas? How do we
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  are there thoughts on that? Yeah. So we,
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  you know, we
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  we also look at the students that we're
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  recruiting
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  and, you know, many schools are offering free
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  tuition. We we are giving free tuition for
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  the first five cohorts through the generosity of
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  Alice,
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  Walton, and
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  we wanna take it another step further. We
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  we know that when other schools have given
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  free tuition and they say, please go back
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  into primary care
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  because we've now taken that burden off of
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  you, the financial burden, we're not really seeing
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  that they are going into primary care, much
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  less going into the rural areas.
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  So we wanted to start with students that
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  come from a rural background that may not
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  have the opportunity to go to medical school.
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  But if they are coming from rural background,
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  they're more likely to go back into the
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  rural areas because that's more of a home
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  connection to them.
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  So, nationally, if you look
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  at how many students have a,
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  background in of coming from a rural area,
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  it's less than 5%.
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  Our first class is 15%,
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  and we're
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  continuing to build up on that. Because the
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  thought is
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  coming from that background, they're gonna understand the
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  needs even more so and have that that
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  direct connection of wanting to go back and
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  serve in that community.
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  But we know that that's not the only
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  way. Like, that that's a good foundation.
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  But we are looking at as we build
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  out the
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  health care system that we've we we are
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  partnering with Mercy as a health system, as
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  an educational partner,
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  but Alice's foundation is also building out, we
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  we haven't come up with the name yet,
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  but right now we're calling it the Bentonville
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  Healthcare Campus,
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  where we are going to use that virtual
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  technology that Mercy is very good at,
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  with their virtual platform of how do we
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  bridge the rural communities
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  back centrally even if they're not part of
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  Mercy Health System.
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  How do we support patients getting the care
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  they need through this virtual network with maybe
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  you know, you might be able to produce
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  a few doctors that go out to the
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  area.
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  But even more so, how do you support
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  those doctors that are in a rural community
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  so they're not feeling like they're on their
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  own,
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  connecting them back centrally to us to this
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  health care campus virtually
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  to offer support, second opinions, whatever it needs
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  to keep the patient there with them, keeping
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  that rural doctor,
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  the doctor practicing in a rural area,
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  feeling safer and secure about having a support
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  system. So we're looking at that whole picture
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  as a system to better support the physicians
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  and patients in in in our rural communities.
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  And so let me ask you a question
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  about how you manage
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  yourself in your leadership capacities.
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  You're you're one of these people that seems
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  incredibly able to do
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  everything and do it really well and with
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  great grace. I I know I remember personally
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  talking to one of our daughters who went
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  to medical school years ago to give her
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  a little bit of advice on how she
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  should look at things and think about things,
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  and it and it was really incredibly
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  impactful for her. But but you seem to
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  find the time
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  to do so many things, and you've got
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  such a huge set of responsibilities.
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  How do you think about managing
• 10:42
  your time and setting priorities
• 10:45
  and sort of making sure you could be
• 10:47
  as effective as you actually are, which is
• 10:49
  incredible?
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  Oh, well, that's very kind of you, but
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  I don't know if I have it have
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  it all together or have the answers. But
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  I I will say that I I think
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  I give credit to my parents for always
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  being that support for me, but, and I
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  might have shared with you at some point
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  that growing up, we would you know, there's
• 11:05
  three of us kids, and we were
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  at the dinner table. Not only did we
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  have to talk about
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  not have to, but we would be asked,
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  what what did you learn today? But it
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  evolved more into how have you made someone
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  else's day better? How have you given back?
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  And, you know, at first, we start off
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  trying to ask each other, well, what are
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  you gonna say? And then it evolved in
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  just a natural conversation
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  as we got older, and we try to
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  do that at the school as much as
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  we can to help support.
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  I was very fortunate
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  also to have great mentors that made time
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  for me. And even if I went to
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  call them a formal mentor and formal time
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  together,
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  I knew that I could call and ask
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  their insights or input or they would notice
• 11:49
  things. So I always felt like
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  I I was always in an atmosphere of
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  giving back or giving out. And I think
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  when you do that and have that mindset,
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  you you end up receiving even more
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  support and more help
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  just when you don't think you're gonna get
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  it. And I think I I think that's
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  just
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  in our nature at the school and and
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  how I was raised. And so,
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  I think it's I think it's very important
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  to give back. And I am we're trying
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  to foster that type of culture at the
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  school and for our students, for our faculty
• 12:23
  and staff. Are we perfect at it? No.
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  You know, we can always do better, but
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  I think it's just in our culture to
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  to support
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  everybody. Yeah. Well, I think that's just as
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  a wonderful, wonderful
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  perspective.
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  I love that dinner table question. What have
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  you done today for somebody else? What have
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  you done to give back today? You know,
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  I I I I'm happy today is one
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  of those things where I can answer that
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  question well. But I don't know that every
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  day I can, and I just love that
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  focus. I think it's just as magnificent.
• 12:52
  Yeah. Talk a little bit about
• 12:54
  as you look at this year, I mean,
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  obviously, you've just got your first class now
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  in '25, so into their second year.
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  And so it but what are you most
• 13:03
  focused on and excited about this year?
• 13:06
  Well, you know, so they they finished their
• 13:09
  first semester. They're,
• 13:11
  they're started their second semester. We're almost done
• 13:13
  recruiting our second class, so that should be
• 13:16
  done pretty soon. So we're really excited about
• 13:18
  having the second class on board.
• 13:21
  You know, I think, you know, we and
• 13:24
  we've also just,
• 13:26
  finished off our, designing our strategic plan to
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  go through
• 13:31
  2030
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  because we're evolving. Right? And I think
• 13:35
  what we really get excited about is
• 13:39
  we can be in our offices, we can
• 13:40
  be talking about things, but when we're with
• 13:42
  the students and we you know, sometimes I
• 13:44
  do coffee with them or we just do
• 13:46
  a a little impromptu town hall,
• 13:49
  you know, I'm just amazed. I think back
• 13:51
  when I was a student,
• 13:53
  I don't think I thought as deeply as
• 13:55
  they do. And so they're really
• 13:57
  they really invigorate us. They they really help
• 13:59
  us to think about other things,
• 14:03
  that we may not be thinking about. They
• 14:05
  are so
• 14:06
  poised
• 14:07
  and respectful,
• 14:09
  yet very determined,
• 14:11
  insightful. And so I I'm just amazed
• 14:15
  at
• 14:16
  you know, we we can't we don't say
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  kids, but the students,
• 14:19
  at what
• 14:20
  what they're thinking about.
• 14:22
  And they just give us a lot of
• 14:24
  energy. And it's just when when when it
• 14:26
  was winter break and they weren't around, we
• 14:28
  we felt it. We missed them. And so
• 14:32
  I would say the fact that we're getting
• 14:33
  a second class that comes on board,
• 14:36
  it it's gonna even be double that. And,
• 14:39
  so we're really,
• 14:40
  really just excited about that. And
• 14:42
  they're also so happy to be here. They've
• 14:46
  been also asking us, well, hey. Do you
• 14:48
  think you can start building up more GME
• 14:50
  programs? Because we wanna stay here and train
• 14:54
  and
• 14:55
  stay here to work as we build out
• 14:57
  our health care campus, and they're seeing that
• 14:59
  vision come to light. And that just really
• 15:02
  touches our heart that that that means that
• 15:04
  we probably are building the right culture, which,
• 15:07
  again, not perfect, but we're trying our best
• 15:10
  that they want to stay here and they
• 15:12
  want to be a part of this community.
• 15:14
  So
• 15:15
  we're just happy about that. And and I
• 15:17
  think being on the campus of a museum,
• 15:20
  with our other sister institutions, it's fun to
• 15:22
  just be able to walk on a trail
• 15:24
  and go,
• 15:25
  and go look at art or, you know,
• 15:29
  walk past our garden and where we have
• 15:31
  the the trails team
• 15:33
  that have created a whole nature guide on
• 15:36
  getting out and and helping you with wellness
• 15:39
  to our fruit trees that, you know, internally,
• 15:42
  they joke because I grew up going to
• 15:43
  my backyard and plucking
• 15:45
  fruit from a tree, and we're not allowed
• 15:46
  to pluck. But I'm about to go plant
• 15:48
  our own trees that we can pluck anytime
• 15:51
  we want. But, you know, it's just things
• 15:52
  like that that
• 15:54
  seem very simple, but it's just a nice
• 15:57
  atmosphere from the students to our surroundings.
• 16:00
  It's just really it's just really
• 16:02
  fun. Just a lot of fun. Oh, I
• 16:04
  mean, it's really remarkable what you're doing and
• 16:07
  what you're accomplishing.
• 16:09
  Take a second on lifelong education
• 16:12
  because I talked about earlier fellowships. You went
• 16:14
  back into the fellowship in gynecological
• 16:16
  oncology.
• 16:18
  You went back later to do an MBA
• 16:20
  at Emory.
• 16:21
  Yeah. The commitment to lifelong intelligence and to
• 16:24
  keep on learning, could you just give us
• 16:25
  a moment on that and and maybe any
• 16:28
  other advice for emerging leaders too? Yeah. So,
• 16:31
  you know, I think, again, having parents that
• 16:33
  are both educators, my dad was a high
• 16:35
  school, I'm sorry. My dad was a college
• 16:37
  chemistry professor. Mom was a high school biology
• 16:40
  teacher. So education was always very highly valued
• 16:44
  in our family. You know?
• 16:46
  My brother was a doctor. My sister was
• 16:48
  a dentist.
• 16:50
  So it's always been
• 16:52
  ingrained in me. And so I think that,
• 16:56
  anytime I see a challenge and may maybe
• 16:58
  I've done a formal education with an MBA,
• 17:01
  but I started off
• 17:02
  wanting to do that because I didn't understand
• 17:05
  finance
• 17:06
  and accounting
• 17:08
  to be able to talk and communicate with,
• 17:11
  you know, our our
• 17:12
  internal finance teams.
• 17:15
  And but I it quickly changed to organizational
• 17:18
  behavior that I really
• 17:20
  learned and understood better in business school
• 17:23
  and really helped us form the teams that
• 17:26
  we have.
• 17:28
  And I think it's it's always wanting to
• 17:30
  be curious
• 17:31
  and understanding
• 17:33
  the why
• 17:34
  that drives me to keep learning, listening to
• 17:37
  certain podcasts, listening to you, you know, like,
• 17:40
  getting wisdom from other
• 17:43
  facets
• 17:44
  of of industries,
• 17:46
  it's just fascinating to me. And I you
• 17:48
  know, I at one point in my career,
• 17:50
  I was a translational
• 17:51
  researcher, so that meant I had to translate
• 17:53
  what the basic scientists were studying in the
• 17:56
  lab
• 17:57
  with to the clinicians. How do you integrate
• 18:00
  that to make something really impactful for a
• 18:02
  patient? I think it's no different when you're
• 18:05
  trying to learn a different industry
• 18:08
  and trying to glean some some pieces where
• 18:11
  you can bring it to your own
• 18:13
  place of work.
• 18:16
  It's all education, but I think it starts
• 18:18
  with curiosity of of wanting to understand why
• 18:21
  and how do you connect it. How do
• 18:23
  you can connect it to what you're working
• 18:26
  on to make it even better? And so,
• 18:28
  you know, my advice is that you're never
• 18:30
  gonna know
• 18:31
  all the answers. I I think I have
• 18:33
  great teams that are a lot smarter than
• 18:36
  me, a lot more hardworking,
• 18:38
  and they bring it to the table so
• 18:40
  we can all learn. Doesn't mean we agree
• 18:42
  on everything, but I think that's the beauty
• 18:44
  of it is that
• 18:45
  we we disagree respectfully and let
• 18:48
  in order to really learn and get to
• 18:50
  a better place.
• 18:52
  And so my advice is always try to
• 18:54
  do that as much as you can. It's
• 18:56
  not easy sometimes. Sometimes you just want an
• 18:58
  easy yes and just keep
• 19:00
  moving. But I think the most powerful
• 19:03
  solutions come from
• 19:05
  deliberating,
• 19:05
  thinking through,
• 19:08
  being comfortable with arguing out a point,
• 19:11
  but even more comfortable listening and
• 19:14
  learning and understanding
• 19:16
  to get to a better place.
• 19:18
  I think it's a remarkable perspective. I I
• 19:21
  feel like in some ways that perspective
• 19:23
  of
• 19:24
  even even though you can't see it on
• 19:26
  the cable TV shows,
• 19:28
  the perspective
• 19:29
  of respectfully
• 19:30
  disagreeing,
• 19:31
  there's a part of society that seems to
• 19:33
  be bringing that back, and it's so needed
• 19:36
  Yeah. In a time of such extremes
• 19:38
  that that are that that have for so
• 19:40
  many strange reasons. But this,
• 19:42
  this concept of of coming back to this
• 19:45
  respectful disagreeing, I think, is just a beautiful
• 19:47
  concept. I'm gonna ask you one more question.
• 19:49
  Yeah. The percentage of students that are from
• 19:52
  Arkansas
• 19:53
  versus the rest of the country to start
• 19:54
  with, and and what can you tell me
• 19:57
  there? So we have our first class is
• 19:59
  about, 30%
• 20:01
  are from Arkansas. And then if you include
• 20:03
  the Heartland States, which are about 20 plus
• 20:07
  states, maybe 20 to 22 depending on what
• 20:09
  which diagram you look at, which are in
• 20:12
  the heart of The United States, that's called
• 20:14
  the Heartland Region. If you include students from
• 20:17
  there, we have about 55%.
• 20:19
  So a little over half our class
• 20:21
  are from that Heartland area.
• 20:23
  This next year's class is probably gonna be
• 20:25
  even higher than that.
• 20:27
  And and, again,
• 20:29
  our our we we take students from all
• 20:31
  over the country,
• 20:33
  but, again, our mission is really how do
• 20:35
  we align with the needs of the Heartland
• 20:38
  states, the rural communities,
• 20:40
  by getting
• 20:41
  those students from those areas to come and
• 20:44
  be educated here
• 20:46
  and go back into the Heartland community. Because
• 20:48
  if we can amplify
• 20:50
  the work we're
• 20:51
  doing and they go into communities to amplify
• 20:54
  it even further,
• 20:55
  I think that's really a win, on our
• 20:58
  part. That's what we'll consider as as being
• 21:00
  successful.
• 21:02
  No. I think that's just as absolutely fantastic.
• 21:05
  Yes.
• 21:06
  Love that. And that's exactly right. If they
• 21:08
  if they come there, they're likely to go
• 21:10
  back. If they don't come there, they're more
• 21:11
  likely to end up in the coast, and
• 21:12
  you end up losing them or or in
• 21:14
  all metro areas and and so forth. So
• 21:16
  just a fantastic.
• 21:18
  Yeah. Doctor Makeeha, we we we just are
• 21:20
  the biggest fan. We love what you're doing.
• 21:22
  We we really are. It's I get a
• 21:24
  chance to visit with another leader that I
• 21:26
  think of similarly as to what they're doing
• 21:28
  for their state, what their area they're doing,
• 21:30
  and I just I just love what you
• 21:31
  do. I love what they do.
• 21:33
  Thank you so much for taking the time
• 21:35
  with us and the Becker's health care podcast,
• 21:36
  and continue good luck. We continue to watch
• 21:39
  the, the success of the Alice Walton School
• 21:42
  of Medicine,
• 21:43
  and we love watching you and all you
• 21:45
  do. So thank you very, very much for
• 21:47
  joining us. Oh, well, thank you so much,
• 21:48
  Scott. And, you know, I'm a it's a
• 21:50
  mutual admiration society between us because I'm I'm
• 21:53
  a big fan of yours and continually will
• 21:56
  support you. And thank you so much for
• 21:57
  this opportunity. Really appreciate you.
• 22:00
  Thank you. Thank you.