Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When Your Adult Child Refuses to Launch

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When Your Adult Child Refuses to Launch · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. The challenge with
0:09
Speaker 1: young men continues, and in the lead up to the
0:11
Speaker 1: launch of my book on June sixteenth, Boys Building Strong
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Speaker 1: young Men from the Inside Out, We're going to be
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Speaker 1: answering a lot more questions about raising young men. Today
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Speaker 1: on the podcast, a tricky question from a mum with
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Speaker 1: a twenty year old who doesn't seem to know how
0:27
Speaker 1: to spread his wings, leave the nest and launch well.
0:32
Speaker 1: Unpack how to prepare our children to be ready for
0:36
Speaker 1: that momentous occasion and also what we can do when
0:38
Speaker 1: it's not working. Next on the Happy Families podcast, Stay
0:41
Speaker 1: with Us. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where
0:46
Speaker 1: you get real parenting solutions every single day. This is
0:50
Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Colson.
0:53
Speaker 1: We're so grateful to have you joining us on a
0:55
Speaker 1: pod today as we unpack another tricky question. If you
0:59
Speaker 1: have a tricky question, we'd love to hear from you.
1:02
Speaker 1: It's really easy. Just go to Happy Families dot com
1:04
Speaker 1: dot a. You've scrolled out of a bit where it
1:06
Speaker 1: says podcasts, press the record button then start talking, or
1:09
Speaker 1: you can send us a voice note to podcasts at
1:12
Speaker 1: Happy Families dot com dot au. Here's today's tricky question.
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Speaker 2: This is Karen from Melbourne. My almost twenty year old
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Speaker 2: has just quit his apprenticeship after six months. He has
1:23
Speaker 2: no plans and is using up his savings. We're happy
1:26
Speaker 2: to support him while he figures out his next move. However,
1:29
Speaker 2: he refuses to contribute in any way to the household.
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Speaker 2: He has in the past sometimes agreed to clean the
1:35
Speaker 2: bathroom once a week and clean his room. This really
1:38
Speaker 2: gets done. He leaves his dirty dishes in his room,
1:40
Speaker 2: the takeaway containers in his room, leaves the front door
1:43
Speaker 2: unlocked overnight. His sense of entitlement is really getting to us,
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Speaker 2: and we do not know what to do. Well.
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Speaker 3: I've got lots of things to say, but I am
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Speaker 3: curious since you have spent so much time delving into
1:55
Speaker 3: boys and boy behavior over the last few years, as
1:58
Speaker 3: you've researched and prepared and written a book all about them,
2:03
Speaker 3: so I'm curious to hear what you have to say.
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Speaker 1: I only have one thing to say. Ah, I mean
2:11
Speaker 1: it like ah, it so infuriating. Let's step into a
2:17
Speaker 1: couple of things that I really want to get off
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Speaker 1: my chest. Before we get too far into this. First off,
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Speaker 1: I want to talk about young men not in employment,
2:25
Speaker 1: education or training. This is called neat okayneet. Not in employment,
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Speaker 1: education or training, And this one actually requires a bit
2:33
Speaker 1: of nuance. Historically, young women have been more likely to
2:36
Speaker 1: be not in employment, education, or training because they get
2:39
Speaker 1: into relationships, often have children, and withdraw themselves from the
2:42
Speaker 1: workforce or from education and training. But what there has
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Speaker 1: been in the last I'm going to say fifteen years
2:48
Speaker 1: or thereabouts, as demography has changed, is that more and
2:53
Speaker 1: more girls, because child wearing has been pushed back into
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Speaker 1: late twenties early thirties, more and more girls are now
3:00
Speaker 1: entering the university system, they're entering education and training opportunities,
3:03
Speaker 1: they're entering the workforce, and the gap is widening, and
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Speaker 1: young men are not. Young men are not entering education,
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Speaker 1: employment and training so much so that where once the
3:17
Speaker 1: girls out number the boys, now it is the other
3:20
Speaker 1: way around. The smartphone theory of everything would predict that
3:25
Speaker 1: or suggest hypothesize that it's all because of phones and screens.
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Speaker 1: Clearly that's happening, at least a little bit. In Karen's
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Speaker 1: case with her twenty year old son. I think there's
3:32
Speaker 1: more to it than that. I also really want to
3:35
Speaker 1: talk about university and trades just while we're on this,
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Speaker 1: because this is something that I really spent time looking
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Speaker 1: at for my book. I'll start with trades. At the moment,
3:44
Speaker 1: we have a trade shortage in Australia. If you are
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Speaker 1: going to get your children into a trade, they'll probably
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Speaker 1: do better than lawyers and maybe even some doctors because
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Speaker 1: we just have so much of a shortage. Get this.
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Speaker 1: Today Australia has eighty thousand male In twenty eleven we
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Speaker 1: had almost one hundred and sixty thousand, almost double. So
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Speaker 1: in the last fifteen years, young men have dropped off.
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Speaker 1: We lose about fifty five percent of apprentices in their
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Speaker 1: first couple of years of the apprenticeship. Like they start
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Speaker 1: and then they bail. Often it's because it's smaller medium
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Speaker 1: and enterprises, and so the quality of leadership may sometimes
4:23
Speaker 1: be lacking. Sometimes these kids just get given a really
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Speaker 1: hard time. There's all sorts of hazing and bad things
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Speaker 1: happening on work sites. But other times kids just they
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Speaker 1: don't want to show up, they don't want to do
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Speaker 1: the work. You talk to a lot of brickies and
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Speaker 1: carpenters and builders and you name it, plumbers, electricians, and
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Speaker 1: they'll just say, yeah, I've tried with apprentices and I
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Speaker 1: just can't get them through the four years. They won't
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Speaker 1: show up and keep on showing up and do the work.
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Speaker 1: It's hard work, It's really hard.
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Speaker 3: It's actually hard work. Just this week, our fifteen year
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Speaker 3: old has been signed up as an apprentice working with horses,
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Speaker 3: doing stable handwork. And as I was talking to their
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Speaker 3: sensitive from.
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Speaker 1: This Prince the Apprenticeship Center and.
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Speaker 3: Training center, he actually acknowledged that their numbers have doubled
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Speaker 3: in sign ups.
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Speaker 1: So this is a school based apprenticeship, school.
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Speaker 3: Based apprenticeships, and just the acknowledgment that there has been
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Speaker 3: such a massive boom with building lately and trades have
5:21
Speaker 3: just gone through the roof with apprenticeships. But when we
5:26
Speaker 3: were I was talking to our daughter's employer, he acknowledged
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Speaker 3: that he has two other girls who are on traineeships
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Speaker 3: with him, and our daughter is the standout by far.
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Speaker 3: She's the one who's willing to get up at three
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Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning, be there on time, work hard
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Speaker 3: until her ship's done, and repeat. It's on repeat. It's
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Speaker 3: not I can do it for a day and then
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Speaker 3: I'm off for three days. It's every day. I'm up
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Speaker 3: at three o'clock, i get in the car at three
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Speaker 3: point thirty, I'm there by four, and she does it
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Speaker 3: every single day. That's hard to come by, Like I'm
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Speaker 3: surprised that our daughter is doing it, Like I am surprised.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, A lot of employers are just saying we
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Speaker 1: can't get the kids to shop consistently on the apprenticeship,
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Speaker 1: so really big challenging. Let's step into university just quickly
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Speaker 1: as well. These numbers will blow you away, and I
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Speaker 1: think this is where the data is the most clear.
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Speaker 1: As well, of one hundred and forty ish thousand domestic
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Speaker 1: bachelor degree completions in twenty twenty two, which is the
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Speaker 1: last starter I can find. So let's say there's nearly
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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty thousand bachelor's degrees conferred in twenty
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Speaker 1: twenty two in Australia. Sixty percent were women, forty percent
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Speaker 1: were men. Actually it's a little bit worse, sixty one
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Speaker 1: thirty nine. I've rounded it. Sixty one percent of women,
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Speaker 1: thirty nine percent of men, meaning fifty six percent more
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Speaker 1: women than men are completing bachelor degrees.
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Speaker 3: So here's the crazy thing when I think about that,
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Speaker 3: when I look at my high school experience, and we're
6:51
Speaker 3: going back a lot of years, but we've watched it
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Speaker 3: with each of our children. It's not that the boys
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Speaker 3: are not smart. Like we have this conversation around intelligence.
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Speaker 3: It's not a given gift. Anybody can do things if
7:07
Speaker 3: they're willing to apply themselves. But it seems that the
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Speaker 3: girls are the ones who are willing to apply themselves
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Speaker 3: and work hard, while the boys aren't. And that doesn't
7:17
Speaker 3: it make sense to me because they have got the
7:20
Speaker 3: same capacity.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so resilience is the keyword here, and it seems
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Speaker 1: that boys just this is what the smartphone theory of
7:27
Speaker 1: everything actually may be true. Like it's really hard to
7:31
Speaker 1: get up and do hard work. It's hard to get
7:33
Speaker 1: up early, it's hard to show up on time. In
7:34
Speaker 1: My Boy's Book, which is coming out on June sixteen,
7:37
Speaker 1: you can pre order it right now from book toopia
7:39
Speaker 1: dot com. Do you will link to it in the
7:40
Speaker 1: show notes in the book, I highlight if you want
7:42
Speaker 1: your child to succeed, if you want them to launch.
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Speaker 1: We just have so many young men who are not thriving,
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Speaker 1: so many non thriving young men. If you want your
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Speaker 1: son to do well, the bar is actually surprisingly low.
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Speaker 1: Show up, smile, be kind to people, do the work,
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Speaker 1: be on time. You do those things and you're going
8:00
Speaker 1: to look like a person of character. And if I
8:03
Speaker 1: go back to Karen's question, twenty years old, he's just
8:07
Speaker 1: quit his apprenticeship after six months, so he's just joined
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Speaker 1: the ranks of the other people who fill in these
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Speaker 1: statistics here, hasn't got any plans, doesn't know where he's going.
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Speaker 1: And Karen is so generous here she says, we're happy.
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Speaker 2: To support him while he figures out his next.
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Speaker 1: Move, which I think is really important. But I will
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Speaker 1: also add, it's not your job supporting while he lays
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Speaker 1: around on his bed, staring at his phone or staring
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Speaker 1: at his navel, saying, Oh, I'm just trying to work
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Speaker 1: myself out. I'm just floating what I want to do. No,
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Speaker 1: get off your backside and be productive. Like I don't
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Speaker 1: have a problem with the parent saying politely but really clearly,
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Speaker 1: if you want to live here, we'll support you, but
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Speaker 1: you've got to have a crack. We will not support
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Speaker 1: you while you do nothing. So after the break, let's
8:52
Speaker 1: talk about how to have the conversation. Because he's not contributing,
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Speaker 1: he's making commitments and not fulfilling them. He's leaving the
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Speaker 1: front door locked overnight. For goodness sakes, how hard is
9:01
Speaker 1: it to just push the button, turn the switch. We
9:04
Speaker 1: need to talk about how to have this conversation. That's
9:07
Speaker 1: next on The Happy Family's podcast. Stay with us, we'll back.
9:18
Speaker 1: This is The Happy Family's Podcast, Tackling Your Tricky Questions. Kylie,
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Speaker 1: I've gone with a bit of a rant talking about
9:27
Speaker 1: the challenges that young men are facing, but there are
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Speaker 1: some distinct and clear parenting conversations that need to happen here.
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Speaker 1: We have three children over the age of twenty now
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Speaker 1: and an eighteen year old as well four adults in
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Speaker 1: the home. What are your initial thoughts on moving this
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Speaker 1: conversation to a productive place.
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Speaker 3: My three take homes would be having a conversation exploring
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Speaker 3: your three ease. So we're going to explore, we're going
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Speaker 3: to explain, and we're going to empower our kids. My
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Speaker 3: second one would be gentle reminders and the third one
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Speaker 3: would be hold them accountable.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's break this down one at a time.
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Speaker 1: We've done a lot of podcasts about the three is
10:10
Speaker 1: of effective discipline. I've written about the three is in
10:12
Speaker 1: pretty much all of my books. Explore what's going on? Hey, buddy,
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Speaker 1: I know it's really hard. You've dropped out of the apprenticeship.
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Speaker 1: You weren't enjoying it, it felt like a grind. You
10:20
Speaker 1: didn't like your boss, the hours were horrible. You don't
10:23
Speaker 1: feel like you're cut out for that. We totally get it.
10:26
Speaker 1: We don't necessarily agree with the decision, but we get it.
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Speaker 1: What else is going on for you right now? What
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Speaker 1: else are you thinking? What are you struggling with? Lots
10:34
Speaker 1: and lots of exploration with no expectation that there'll be
10:37
Speaker 1: strong answers, but at least or that there will be
10:39
Speaker 1: an outcome or even an outcome. That's right, not at
10:42
Speaker 1: this point? Next explain, explain is here are our hopes,
10:47
Speaker 1: our dreams, and even just some basic expectations. And then
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Speaker 1: in power, based on where you are and based on
10:54
Speaker 1: what we're asking, what do you see is a productive
10:57
Speaker 1: way for us to move forward about employment? And let's
11:01
Speaker 1: talk about your contribution at home and if we can
11:03
Speaker 1: get a couple of things nailed down right here, we
11:07
Speaker 1: can work this out. It'll be okay. I haven't asked permission,
11:11
Speaker 1: but I don't think our son in law would mind
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Speaker 1: us sharing this. When he was dating our daughter and
11:17
Speaker 1: even in the early stages of their marriage, he tried
11:21
Speaker 1: a couple of courses. He had a number of different jobs,
11:24
Speaker 1: didn't like any of them, and for a while things
11:26
Speaker 1: were looking decidedly dicey, and then finally he just said,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to do this apprenticeship. My dad helped me
11:34
Speaker 1: to find an electrical apprenticeship, and I'm just going to
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Speaker 1: get it done. And then halfway through it all blew up.
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Speaker 1: Things weren't working out. He tried a couple of other things,
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Speaker 1: and then he again sat down and said, I need
11:44
Speaker 1: to finish the apprenticeship. I've got a wife now and
11:46
Speaker 1: we're trying to save up for a house. And there's
11:49
Speaker 1: something about maybe being in a marriage, being in a
11:52
Speaker 1: relationship like that, where you kind of do feel a
11:54
Speaker 1: higher level of obligation to get stuff done. But he
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Speaker 1: grew through those hard times, got the fprenticeship, and is
12:00
Speaker 1: now wonderfully in demand and extremely productive, really doing a
12:05
Speaker 1: great job in terms of how he provides for his family.
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Speaker 1: Explore explaining power ongoingly is part of the process to
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Speaker 1: get him there.
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Speaker 3: I think too often our kids just give up right
12:18
Speaker 3: when we hit a speed bump in the road. It
12:21
Speaker 3: just feels too hard. And helping them to navigate that
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Speaker 3: uncomfortable space and having conversations before they actually get to
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Speaker 3: a point of complete and utter failure is really important.
12:40
Speaker 3: I don't think you can underestimate the power as a
12:46
Speaker 3: parent to be a sounding board for your kids.
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Speaker 1: As you were saying that, I was just thinking, it's
12:51
Speaker 1: so important that you don't dive in and say here's
12:53
Speaker 1: the expectation, here's what you need to do, and here's
12:55
Speaker 1: my advice, go and do it. We have found it's
12:58
Speaker 1: really helpful when we're talking about our adult children to
13:00
Speaker 1: said them, I have a couple of ideas and I'd
13:03
Speaker 1: love to share them with you if you're open to it.
13:05
Speaker 1: But if you're not, there's no problem. You're an adult
13:07
Speaker 1: now and you get to make your own choices. But
13:09
Speaker 1: let us know because there's a couple of things that
13:11
Speaker 1: are just simmering away in the background that we think
13:12
Speaker 1: we could be helpful with. And I would say nine
13:15
Speaker 1: times out of ten they say, yeah, well, what's on
13:17
Speaker 1: your mind, like, what are you thinking? I need some
13:20
Speaker 1: guidance here.
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Speaker 3: And I would say nine times out of ten they
13:22
Speaker 3: don't listen to a word that you say and they
13:24
Speaker 3: go off and do something else for the time. But
13:26
Speaker 3: more times than not they come back to it. Yeah,
13:29
Speaker 3: they do come back to it. And it's like, you're
13:31
Speaker 3: planting a seed right now. This is hard. They don't
13:35
Speaker 3: want to hear what you've got to say. But you've
13:37
Speaker 3: planted a seed, and with the right environment, the right
13:41
Speaker 3: amount of sun and love and support and lots of
13:44
Speaker 3: water for nourishment, you're going to see the results of
13:48
Speaker 3: that over time. But they have to feel like it's
13:51
Speaker 3: their choice.
13:52
Speaker 1: Let's talk about gentle reminders.
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Speaker 3: I love this one. It's so easy because you've had
13:56
Speaker 3: this conversation and you've determined together there are a couple
13:59
Speaker 3: of things that are going to take place moving forward.
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Speaker 3: So a gentle reminder is just that it's literally, hey buddy,
14:05
Speaker 3: the dishes, yep, hey buddy, the takeaway containers in your room,
14:10
Speaker 3: it's washing day. They're just simple. You don't get caught
14:13
Speaker 3: up in those stressful conversations which never end well and
14:17
Speaker 3: which more times than not, is that force creates resistance.
14:21
Speaker 3: They're being pushed to do something so that I still
14:23
Speaker 3: want to do it.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard me saying this to
14:25
Speaker 1: our youngest lately. She has a habit of leaving her
14:28
Speaker 1: bedroom light on lately, and I just say to her, hey,
14:33
Speaker 1: m I noticed you're not in your bedroom. Are you
14:35
Speaker 1: still using your light because it's on? And every single
14:38
Speaker 1: time she's like, oh, sorry, Dad, and she just goes
14:40
Speaker 1: and turns it off every single time. A gentle reminder,
14:44
Speaker 1: A quick question, he kiddo, the front door, the dog,
14:51
Speaker 1: has the dog been fed? Just those quick questions. Set
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Speaker 1: it up ahead of time so that you can say
14:55
Speaker 1: to your child, I'm going to drop these little hints,
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Speaker 1: and I need you to to not get defensive and
15:01
Speaker 1: not get angry when I mentioned it. Just hear it
15:03
Speaker 1: for what it is. It's a reminder. It's a gentle
15:05
Speaker 1: reminder that the thing that you said would be done
15:07
Speaker 1: has not been done. And then ask for a commitment.
15:10
Speaker 1: What will you do when you get that reminder? And
15:13
Speaker 1: the last thing we need to highlight is accountability.
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Speaker 3: I love this one as well for a few reasons.
15:19
Speaker 3: We have one of our daughters at the moment who
15:21
Speaker 3: feels like she's just gone through a bit of a
15:22
Speaker 3: hard spot in her life, and she came to us
15:24
Speaker 3: and she actually said, Mom and Dad, I need a
15:27
Speaker 3: weekly accountability check There are things that i want to
15:30
Speaker 3: achieve in my life, but I'm just really struggling to
15:32
Speaker 3: kind of move the needle in a positive direction, and
15:35
Speaker 3: I just need someone to check in with me and
15:37
Speaker 3: ask me how I'm going. And the power in that
15:41
Speaker 3: accountability check is showing your children that you are invested
15:46
Speaker 3: in their progress. So once you've had that conversation, you've
15:50
Speaker 3: gone through the three e's, you've empowered your child, then
15:54
Speaker 3: a regular accountability check in gives them an opportunity to
15:59
Speaker 3: recognize progress.
16:01
Speaker 1: Let's just highlight an accountability to check in. Isn't mum
16:03
Speaker 1: and dad evaluating their child and saying, hey, you told
16:06
Speaker 1: us you do this and you haven't been doing it.
16:08
Speaker 1: It goes like this, what's worked this week, what hasn't
16:10
Speaker 1: worked this week? How can we support you for the
16:12
Speaker 1: upcoming week? They're the three questions. That's all you talk about.
16:15
Speaker 1: What has been working, what hasn't been working? How can
16:17
Speaker 1: we support you in the direction of your goals and
16:19
Speaker 1: dreams in the next week? You know what, There's one
16:21
Speaker 1: more thing I really need to highlight as we wrap, Kylie,
16:24
Speaker 1: we're talking about a twenty year old boy here, twenty
16:27
Speaker 1: year old young man, and he's in so many ways
16:31
Speaker 1: he's not actually supposed to know exactly what he wants
16:33
Speaker 1: to do right now.
16:34
Speaker 3: He doesn't need to.
16:35
Speaker 1: And that's what I was going to say. The goal
16:37
Speaker 1: is not that he locks in and follows the path.
16:40
Speaker 1: The goal is that he commits to being productive. Well,
16:44
Speaker 1: he too exploring.
16:46
Speaker 3: It's about keep trying. So you tried building, it didn't work. Yep,
16:50
Speaker 3: what can we try next?
16:51
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Can we continue to try that
16:54
Speaker 1: but with a different employer? Like? Are there other pathways
16:58
Speaker 1: to get to the goal? Because look at what you've
17:00
Speaker 1: learned in six months. Here's where you were, here's where
17:02
Speaker 1: you are. This is amazing.
17:04
Speaker 3: I think there's an important life skill in recognizing that
17:07
Speaker 3: you're climbing the wrong ladder, right, so that there is
17:10
Speaker 3: an importance in that, But equally so is the opportunity
17:14
Speaker 3: to stick at a hard task, and so finding the
17:18
Speaker 3: nuance between the two to enable your child to succeed
17:24
Speaker 3: can be tricky at times, but totally doable.
17:27
Speaker 1: He's in the right place at the right time, and
17:29
Speaker 1: he needs supportive parents who help him to be accountable
17:33
Speaker 1: as he works it all out. So we really really
17:35
Speaker 1: hope caring that that's a useful response for you and
17:37
Speaker 1: anyone else who's going through it right now. Thanks for
17:39
Speaker 1: your tricky question Tricky questions via Happy families dot com
17:43
Speaker 1: dot a U scroll down, press the record button, start talking.
17:45
Speaker 1: It's our super simple system, or send us an email
17:48
Speaker 1: of podcasts at happy families dot com dot au. The
17:51
Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhlin from Bridge Medium.
17:54
Speaker 1: Mimhammonds provides our additional support. If you'd like to know
17:56
Speaker 1: more about helping boys to launch well, check out my
17:59
Speaker 1: brand new book. It's called Boys Boys Building Strong young
18:02
Speaker 1: Men from the inside Out, available now for pre order
18:04
Speaker 1: from book toopia dot com dot au. We love getting
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Speaker 1: those pre orders come through. That's what kind of determines
18:10
Speaker 1: the success or failure of a book. So if you've
18:13
Speaker 1: got a boy who's in his tweens or teens, please
18:15
Speaker 1: get on there, Please push the button, please pre order.
18:18
Speaker 1: It will make a difference in your family and and
18:20
Speaker 1: other people finding out about the book. Have a great
18:23
Speaker 1: day and We'll be back with more on the Happy
18:25
Speaker 1: Families podcast tomorrow