Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #76 Why Your Professor Wants to Know You: A Guide to Making the Most of Office Hours

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#76 Why Your Professor Wants to Know You: A Guide to Making the Most of Office Hours · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

College Is Fine Podcast (00:11) Okay, great. All right, don't know what happened there. Okay, all right. All right, listeners. mean, I feel like I have full disclosure. I do need to talk about how we really were resilient in the face of a lot of technology issues getting here today. But here we are. And maybe it's like analogous to one of the biggest issues I work with predominantly college students in clinical practice. Sarah and I recently did. Danielle DeNigris (00:12) All right. College Is Fine Podcast (00:39) a talk for graduating seniors at a high school ⁓ and interviewed a lot of college students there. And one of their biggest regrets, they were juniors and seniors, was under utilizing professors, both the relationship with professors as well as utilizing them for support when they're struggling within a class. So who better to talk about demystifying ⁓ office hours and helping college students feel more confident in navigating their relationship with their professors than an actual professor. So we're really, really lucky to have our professor here today that I would love for them to introduce themselves. Danielle DeNigris (01:19) Sure, thank you guys for having me. ⁓ I am Dr. Danielle DeNegress. I am ⁓ an associate professor of psychology in the College of Psychology and Counseling at Fairleigh Dickinson University, which is in New Jersey. Predominantly, we have campuses on... other continents, other countries, but predominantly New Jersey, so I'm on our New Jersey campuses. ⁓ I teach primarily in undergrad. I teach everything from our intro psych course to our upper level courses. you know, I see the full gamut of four-year college students, including transfer students from a lot of our surrounding community colleges who are coming in, you know, kind of midway through that four-year degree. So I'm excited. excited to be here, love talking about how students can kind of get the most out of their college education, regardless of whether they go into psychology or my area or not, really just ensuring students are kind of getting set for the world after college and the rest of their lives, really. College Is Fine Podcast (02:24) Okay, love it. You're good person to have on. I mean, I think everyone takes a general psychology course probably at some point in their university experience, even if they're not a psych major, right? So, you know, a lot of college students hear about office hours, even just that term. And I think like when they walk onto campus, they're not even sure what it is. And it's like listed on a syllabus, right? And maybe the professor explains it, maybe they don't. So let's just kind of break it down really simply. What is the function of office hours? What's the purpose of it? And why should students utilize it? Danielle DeNigris (02:58) Yeah, and honestly I think that's a really important thing that I hadn't thought about when I started teaching. It was something I had gone straight into teaching right out of, you know, almost right out of undergrad because I started adjuncting as a grad student. And I just assumed everybody knows what office hours are, so you go through your syllabus and you say, are my office hours. And some students are like, ⁓ okay. And others are like, I don't know what that means, so I'm just not going to utilize that. unfortunate because office hours are really an opportunity for students to get any help that they need, but also get to know their professors a bit more, talk about future a bit more. And so basically what office hours are all instructors, professors are required to some extent to have a certain number of office hours. And these are not the hours that I do my own personal work ⁓ in the office, but rather hours that are specifically dedicated to meeting with students, right? And so this could be anything. from a student who has a question about course material or a student who wants to go over an exam or assignment that they've submitted or are going to be submitting or it can be a student who wants to talk about what courses they should take next semester or a student who doesn't know if they want to go to grad school or what they should do after you know life in college ⁓ and so really office hours are these sort of open times where students can really get assistance and get to meet with with their faculty get to know them a bit more. And so that your faculty get to know you, which is, I think, sometimes really important for any of the students listening who are at larger universities or places that have huge class sizes. I think that's really important. The first time I ever taught, this was in... College Is Fine Podcast (04:37) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (04:52) It was an undergraduate course at Hunter College and I was given a class size of like 150 students and I was scared because it was my first time teaching that large of a section. But you only get to know students by their names on your grade sheet. And so the students in large classes could really benefit from some FaceTime with their instructors. So they become more than John Smith. College Is Fine Podcast (05:15) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (05:21) you know, ID number or whatever. College Is Fine Podcast (05:24) Right, right, right. You know, I think that, and we'll get to, I think, the benefits of going to office hours, but first we have to think about what's getting in the way of people actually going. ⁓ So I'd love to go through some misconceptions that we have heard from actual either clients that we work with or students that we've interviewed that are in college and kind of looking back. Danielle DeNigris (05:36) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (05:48) One of, think, the biggest misconceptions, and I would love for you to share your opinion about it, is that you're bothering a professor. So, a student has that thought, what should they be thinking in response to the thought? Danielle DeNigris (06:01) So actually love that you use the word bother because now when recently when I go over office hours or when I tell students to email me, I actually say, please don't think that you are bothering me. ⁓ I am quite literally part of my job is office hours. I'm being paid to answer your emails if you can't physically make it into my space or to create a Zoom chat for us to chat. So you are not. bothering me. Those hours are for you. Now, if let's say you need to meet with your professor outside of office hours, you know, send an email to make sure that they have that time to meet with you. But if they say their office hour is, you know, Tuesday from 1 to, you know, 3 p.m. and you show up at 2 p.m., you're not bothering them. That is the time for you. And, you know... Some instructors may be nicer than others. They may be in the middle of a task and, you know, be understanding that they may have to wrap something up quickly, but this is the time for you. You aren't bothering them. They're supposed to be bothered by you during this time. College Is Fine Podcast (07:07) Right, right, right, right. I share sometimes with my patients that I was like, ⁓ I kept office hours as a TA for stats. And I was like, it wasn't the most demoralizing thing ever sitting there and nobody shows up. It's actually, it's more bothersome. It's like there's no reinforcement from the students that they're like, and now again, I'm empathetic to the reasons why maybe they're not there, but I actually felt like it was the opposite. Like when somebody would actually show up, I was like, my gosh, hallelujah. Somebody's actually coming. ⁓ Okay, I think another, I hear this a lot too. I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. Like I haven't fully defined what I need help with, and then therefore I'm not gonna go, right? So what would you say to like a student that's kind of confused about what they need help with or their questions that they have and how to get over that obstacle to coming to office hours? Danielle DeNigris (08:04) Yeah, I mean, that can definitely be a barrier, right? You're like, A, I already think I'm bothering them, and I also don't know exactly what I need help with, so I don't wanna go in there and be like, hi, I don't know what I need, and then think that you're bothering them. You're not, what I would recommend is, think of the general topic. So if, let's say, you're going in because you're like, I feel like I'm not getting the material, and you may not know exactly the specific thing that you're not getting, and that's okay, right? come in and let the instructor know that you are struggling with grasping material. they can, they're ideally professionals in their field, they understand what they want from their students to succeed. And so sometimes I'll have students coming in and be like, you know, I'm just not getting the material. And it could be because maybe they aren't taking notes efficiently and so we could talk about note taking. Or maybe it's because. College Is Fine Podcast (08:57) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (09:00) They missed a class and they genuinely just need some help catching up on the material they missed. That's very straightforward. It also might be a student who's like, I think I'm doing well and then I get to the test and I'm struggling and we can talk about study skills. It's some students who are like, I did really well in a similar course but now I'm struggling in this course and so maybe it's translating material from one content to another that can be talked about. ⁓ If students have specific questions, that's always... College Is Fine Podcast (09:19) Right. Danielle DeNigris (09:29) great and makes organizing office hours easy on my end. But even if you don't know exactly what it is you want to talk about, coming in with a general sort of, I need assistance in this area, whether it's I'm doing poorly on exams or assignments, or I'm unclear of what the assignment instructions are, or I'm sitting in class and it's just not sinking in. Even something as broad as that. College Is Fine Podcast (09:56) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (09:57) can help frame that discussion. And you're not going to be, I think the most important thing for students to remember, you're not the first one to have come in saying something vague, right? And so I assure you, you're not the first to ask a question that maybe isn't as strong of a question as you think it should be. There's someone else who has asked something even vaguer, and likely there's been at least 10 people before you saying that exact same thing. College Is Fine Podcast (10:05) Right, right, right, right. Right. Right, right. I love that idea that like, okay, even if there's a broad question that you have or something that's really vague, that like a reminder that your instructor is, this is not their first rodeo. They've been there before and likely putting two heads together to kind of even figure out and define the problem is better than you spinning your wheels in your dorm room and maybe feeling more helpless about the course that you're taking. ⁓ Okay, so lot of good questions and topics to bring up during office hours. Are there any topics that maybe, or things that maybe it's not the best use of your time when you come to office hours that ⁓ students should keep in mind to kind of some of the don'ts? Danielle DeNigris (11:08) Yeah, so I will say, so one of the first things is, especially if you're at a larger institution, I would send your professor an email, even if it's five minutes before you're gonna show up, just saying, hi, this is so and so from this class. I'm gonna pop into your office hours. I wanna talk about X, Y, or Z. And again, this could be that vague thing about how I'm doing in your class is fine enough for me. ⁓ That way it gives your instructor a little like prep time. So if, you know, I can pull up someone's grades in the class, I can have that like, you know, part of my LMS system open already so I could see how they're doing. Or I can, you know, pull out their physical exams if that's what they wanna do. So we're not sort of, we're hitting the ground running kind of when we're going. So a little heads up, especially if you're in a large class and your instructor may not know your face immediately, you know, I'm thinking of like my 150, 200 person classroom, I'm like, College Is Fine Podcast (12:01) Right, right. Danielle DeNigris (12:05) I recognize you from being in my classroom. I cannot put your face to your name. So that's helpful. I would also say another maybe like less optimal use of office hour ⁓ is, you know, if you miss a class and you want the instructor to go through the entire lecture that you missed, that would be, you know, that's not what office hours are. However, what office hours are, are for you to have gone through. College Is Fine Podcast (12:10) to her name, right? Right. Danielle DeNigris (12:34) either a classmate's notes or the textbook or the lecture slides, whatever you have, and then coming in with specific questions of, you know, I went through, I missed class, I went through this on my own, but I'm really confused about, you know, this topic. Would you mind going over that, giving some examples again? And that is a better way of getting at it than, hi, I missed class last week. Can you teach me the class? You know, there's likely not time to do that. College Is Fine Podcast (12:41) questions, right? Mm-hmm. way. Mm-hmm. to reteach it for them. totally get it. I'm glad you brought up email because this is, you know, I find there's like some ⁓ phobia of ⁓ a lot of students would rather send emails than going in person to office hours. And any guidelines or practical tips of like, what would be more appropriate to send via an email versus what would be more appropriate you think to come in person to office hours? Danielle DeNigris (13:28) Yeah, so I think email is great for very specific questions that have answers, right? Where it's like, I got question 10 wrong on this assignment and I'm not sure why, right? Or, you know, I am unclear about this specific topic. You know, the example that we talked about in class didn't make sense. Is there another example? Or, I was really interested in this topic. Do you have any other resources, you know, that I should look into? Those are ones that I can quickly send you a nice email. Other things like, I'm not sure. I think I'm thinking about grad school, and I want to apply to grad school. Those are not really email questions, because I'm going to have to send you thousands and thousands of back and forth. So I would say things that have a specific answer. I wanted to confirm that the exam is taking place next week, whatever it might be. Things that you know are going to have an answer. College Is Fine Podcast (14:11) question. Yeah, yeah. Danielle DeNigris (14:25) Right? These less open-ended conversations I think are great for email. And usually your instructor is going to have some sort of email policy on their syllabus. Mine says that if I don't answer you in 48 hours, resend your email because I opened it on my phone, forgot about it, and didn't answer you. So please don't think you're bothering me. Email me again. College Is Fine Podcast (14:28) questions. Yeah. Right, right. Right. OK. I find those practical tips are great. I think it really is like a reminder and hopefully some reassurance that ⁓ it is part of a professor's job to hold office hours. ⁓ They are interested in meeting with students, right? And that too broad or narrow, specific, whatever it is that you're kind of coming in with. I really think this idea that putting your heads together to kind of figure out what the problem is and hopefully problem solving some solutions is better than waiting to the point where you really feel like there's no salvaging your grade within a course. ⁓ Can we pivot a little bit to talk about the connections and relationships with professors? So, one of ⁓ the... Danielle DeNigris (15:33) Yes. College Is Fine Podcast (15:38) ⁓ female students that we kind of interviewed at the end of last year, she was saying like, she got to the end, she ⁓ had just graduated from college and she's like, I didn't have like one meaningful connection with a professor and now I'm in a position where I'm applying to jobs or to grad school and how, the difference between high school. right, where you see the same person every day, there's a level of accountability and familiarity. And, you know, this student was at a larger university and there was less intimacy, like between her and her professors. And she said she really regretted, you know, that she didn't work harder on forming, you know, stronger relationships and mentorships with professors. So maybe you could speak a little bit about like, Danielle DeNigris (16:03) Right. right. College Is Fine Podcast (16:29) how you view yourself as a professor and your role in that, and ⁓ why that might be important for freshmen students or even upperclassmen to kind of think about in their time on campus. Danielle DeNigris (16:43) Yeah, so you mentioned the idea of like, I'm applying to either grad school or to jobs and I need these like references and I have no one to put down. And I think that's a really important part of office hours where those can work to your advantage, right? Where you can chat with your faculty about your goals, your ideas. And this doesn't have to be something that you have to start. your freshman year, right? You're not expected when you come into college to know what you want to do with your life. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life until the end of my senior year. So it's okay to not know that and to be a little, you know, vague in your questions and things. But you can broach that subject with just, I'm interested in other classes in this discipline. And it doesn't even have to be, ideally it's in your major, right? But any faculty that you find interesting, if you're sitting in the classroom and you're like, this person is engaging, I like the way they teach, I'm interested in the topic. College Is Fine Podcast (17:41) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (17:49) Faculty love to hear that first off. And so starting those relationships are really important to then build on those. So you have someone who, even if you're not in their class, the next semester you can go to as a resource. ⁓ And so I think that that's also one of the misconceptions is that the office hours are only for class. College Is Fine Podcast (17:52) I Danielle DeNigris (18:12) Right? And once class is done, that professor is no longer obligated to meet with you to do it. Office hours are, I am... paid to be in my office to meet with any student that wants to come in to chat with me about anything during that time. And so that can be particularly helpful. And even just conversations of, know, hi, I'm a freshman, you know, this is my first semester in college, you know, I'm a little unclear about expectations. I'd love to pick your brain about some things that you think I should know about, I don't know, the philosophy major, the psychology major. ⁓ that can be helpful for me. And that's something that's gonna set you up for success, right? And it's also gonna start that relationship where now that person knows that you care, knows that you're concerned. You know, I always say this to students, come to me before, you know, College Is Fine Podcast (19:13) Mm. Danielle DeNigris (19:14) the water is up to your knees, right? Come to me when you start hearing the rain and things are, and you wanna get in at the ground level, right? And so I think that that's really helpful to form those connections because I think about when I have a student who didn't really... interact with me often either outside of class or even you know in the five minutes before or after class, right? And they asked for a letter of recommendation and the best I can write is this is how they performed on exams. This is how they performed, you know on assessments. They graduated with this GPA. They took these classes. That's not a meaningful recommendation, right? Whereas if I can say, you know, this person was really motivated to learn. They came in to office hours regularly. College Is Fine Podcast (19:40) Right. Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (20:04) to ask about topics, they were really critically thinking about course material. These are things that I can put into a letter that when you're applying to, I think about in terms of grad school, because I read grad school admission letters, those are the things that are meaningful. Because I'm like, okay, this is what's gonna set somebody apart from the same GPA person. know, theirs, that hey, this person built those relationships, their faculty say they're motivated, they care, they put in the extra time, you know, so I think even just that can be helpful. College Is Fine Podcast (20:42) Yeah, I think that's something that, you you are on this treadmill to like get to college, right? And it's like this like really fast paced thing and then you get there and you forget about a lot of things that you did likely that helped you be successful, let's say in high school. And one of those things I really think about just in terms of just wellness in general is this like community aspect and really integrating yourself within the community. Danielle DeNigris (20:49) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (21:10) And I think there's so much anxiety about making friends, right? That a lot of college students don't zoom out and see that there is a lot of people besides same age peers on a college campus that can really help your adjustment to school as well as make your time there meaningful. I'd love to hear like. Aside from helping, I'm assuming you're in this profession because you care about education, you care about what you're teaching, you like this age group, but what do you enjoy out of the one-on-one conversations as a professor when you're meeting with students? Danielle DeNigris (21:38) you Honestly, I like getting to know the students themselves. I think, to be honest, it helps me frame my lectures moving forward. It helps me, you know. know who to reach out, like, you if I get a student who comes into office hours, because they're like, you know, I'm struggling right now because I had to take on a second job to pay bills or something, or, you know, my mom's in the hospital, or things like this, which is also another great use of office hours, right, to talk about these things, you know, with your professors so that they know, you know, that you're going through something, so that they know to maybe reach out a bit more if you are forgetting to submit things, right? ⁓ So I like knowing that because then I know if John Smith, I'm going to keep saying John Smith I guess in the Pocahontas mindset, if this student keeps, they tell me that they had to take on a second job and I notice that they didn't submit an assignment on time, I know that it's not because... they just didn't care about the assignment, not that I assume that of my students anyway, but I can reach out and be like, hey John, notice that you didn't submit that assignment. Is there anything going on that maybe prevented you from doing this? Do you need an extension? Should I connect you with other resources? And I think that that could be helpful. I also think, now that I brought that up, ⁓ College Is Fine Podcast (22:54) Right. Danielle DeNigris (23:16) Another use of office hours is if you don't know who to go to get an answer to your question, right? Your faculty member, because at least you have that FaceTime with them in class, so maybe it's a little less frightening to go into office hours and say, hey, I am having issues with, I don't know, paying my bill and I don't know who to contact or where that office is located. Your faculty member will know that or will know how to get the answer to you. And so that could be a College Is Fine Podcast (23:21) Right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (23:46) use of office hours, know, do I need to connect you with this resource or this resource or hey, did you know we have, you know, I'm thinking with like SNAP benefits not being paid, you know, in a day or two, you know, did you know we have a food pantry on campus and that it's free for students and you can access it here and here's where it's located, you know, things like that that maybe students aren't aware of, faculty likely know about. College Is Fine Podcast (24:11) Yeah, I'm so happy that you're pointing that out that I think sometimes, and this is no shade to some of the departments on campus, but I'll even with a patient call something and nobody picks up, right? It goes to a voicemail. A lot of these places are really busy. And I think having a familiar face and somebody that alive in the moment, catching them after class, kind of remembering that like, you know, there are people on campus that maybe you wouldn't think to go ask and like your professor likely can kind of guide you in the direction or make a connection for you. ⁓ And that ultimately a lot of these things that you even just mentioned are going to affect your academic performance, right? So we want, and your attendance at class or et cetera. So ⁓ I wanted to kind of, you know, I was thinking a little bit about how ⁓ I have a patient currently who is the first in their family to go to college. And we were talking about going to office hours and I was thinking about how a lot of other clients that I have, their parents are often the ones like, have you met with your professor? Have you met with your professor? Right? Like anytime there's like some sort of struggle, they have like a million people, you know, their older sisters like, have you met with your professor? Your parents met with your professor, now their therapist is saying it. But this particular student, Danielle DeNigris (25:23) huh, huh. College Is Fine Podcast (25:37) really was like very confused by the concept and also ⁓ had a lot of these myths, right, about, you bothering, et cetera. And I was saying to them at the beginning of the semester, I was like, just go to, just introduce yourself. Like what, even without like a question, right? Like, how can you kind of just get familiar with this idea that ⁓ you can kind of pop in? ⁓ So I was thinking a little bit about if you could speak a little bit to maybe the student that's not really familiar with college life and doesn't have a lot of exposure to it or a lot of support within their community or their family, ⁓ what you would say to them as a freshman coming onto campus. Danielle DeNigris (26:21) Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually one of the things, so I teach an educational psychology class and one of the... TED Talks that I show them is from a Harvard professor who, you know, grew up in a, you know, marginalized community, low income in, I believe it's in Florida. And, but he was lucky in that he had gotten a scholarship to private schools for his, you know, education for high school. And so he was like, I can go into college knowing what office hours are and how I can use them to my advantage. He's like, but my peers from my neighborhood didn't, right? And if your parents didn't go to college, if neighborhood friends and folks aren't currently in college, you don't have older siblings who are in college, why would you know that office hours are important, right? It's just something that faculty kind of throw on a syllabus and say at you, right? And so I think it's one of these things that, you know. faculty teaching sort of like those like first semester courses need to be mindful of, but that students, know, if I'm a first generation student, this is, you I don't have assistance regardless of who you are. ⁓ I would approach office hours as simply, you know, start with the introduction, right, as you mentioned, you know. Hi, I'm Danielle DeNegres. I'm in your Gen Psych class. I just wanted to introduce myself. This is my first semester here and I'm really excited to learn about psychology. know, either because maybe you want to be a psychologist or you're a psych major or you're like, you know, I'm... College Is Fine Podcast (28:03) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (28:06) in the nursing program and you know I'm really excited to learn about psychology and how you know that might apply to nursing. Right? So I just wanted to even if it's just a five minute conversation of I just wanted to introduce myself put you know my face in your mind. Right? And as a professor I can tell you that is so helpful for me. Right? Because now I already know who you are. I'm not going to be struggling as much being like, okay, trying to memorize who's who, like people's names. And so you've already formed that relationship, right? That bond is there. And then now that you got that hard part of, hi, I'm in your class, over with, I think it becomes easier. College Is Fine Podcast (28:33) Right, right. Right. Danielle DeNigris (28:47) to then reach out and say, hey, I'm struggling or hey, I have a question, right? But again, maybe you're shy, maybe you're super introverted and you're like, there is a 0 % chance that I am walking into my professor's office and saying, hi, I'm so and so nice to meet you. I get it. That's fine. I was very shy as an undergrad, which is anybody that knows me now thinks that's insane, but I was very shy, very quiet as an undergrad. And so I get it. Send an email. College Is Fine Podcast (28:50) Yeah, yeah. You Danielle DeNigris (29:17) Talk to them before or after class, right? After that first class, hi, Dr. Negers, you know, it was great meeting with you. I'm really excited for this class. I'm so and so, I'm majoring in this, whatever. Already, okay, great. Thanks for letting me know, fantastic. You know, I think that's also helpful if you're like, I can't just go into office hours. Do it after class, you're already there. The professor's already expecting some students to like say something as they're leaving, like, bye, nice class, nice to meet you. Do it then. College Is Fine Podcast (29:35) Right, right, right. think that's a really good tip to ⁓ not wait till there's like a five alarm fire when you're already anxious to meet with them. that's also when you're introducing yourself to them. ⁓ And that who knows, like that you might be fine for the whole rest of the semester and like never need to go to office hours and really maybe don't feel like that's the professor that you want to kind of form a connection with, but at least you get this practice of. Danielle DeNigris (29:53) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (30:11) relationship building and initiation with a professor where I think this like authority student dynamic makes them very worried and nervous. Okay, well, yeah, we're gonna say, yeah, yeah. Danielle DeNigris (30:23) Yeah, and the, can I just add one more? Yeah. So I'm gonna pull in research just slightly. So the research on office hours is a little mixed just because obviously. College Is Fine Podcast (30:30) ⁓ love this. Danielle DeNigris (30:37) Colleges are different. Are you talking about a four-year or two-year, right? Regions are different. Disciplines are different. Sizes of schools are different, right? So it's a little hard to get like a general consensus of like office hours lead to X, Y, or Z. But where the research is actually pretty consistent across the board is with first-generation and minoritized students in that College Is Fine Podcast (30:46) Yeah. Danielle DeNigris (31:03) we see sort of better retention in college and better GPAs during those classes or in those semesters, right? And so for those students, I think it's helpful because you don't know this new life and you don't have somebody perhaps who's done it before you that you do feel comfortable going to, you know, at least until you make those friends with your peers and you can chit chat, right? But so having that person College Is Fine Podcast (31:27) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (31:31) and that relationship where you're like, okay, I feel comfortable enough going up to them. And you'll get a feel for that, right? You know, we all know the personalities that we kind of mesh with best. And you'll get a feel for that as the semester kind of goes on. So if you do that introduction day one of like, hi, I'm so and so, great to be in your class, really looking forward to the semester. And then you can be like, okay, definitely not this professor. I don't think this is gonna be the person I go to. Or like, you know what, this one, I love this class. I wanna chat with them, great. I'm a Latin American studies minor for the only reason because I had a professor my first semester of college that I loved and I went to him for guidance. I took a bunch of his classes as electives and I have a Latin American studies minor that I absolutely don't use. but had great relationships. He wrote me a letter of recommendation for grad school. You know, we still are in touch to this day. And so it doesn't have to be the person in your major that you think is gonna be the most helpful for that discipline. That person that you feel comfortable going to is gonna end up being the most helpful. College Is Fine Podcast (32:21) Right. Mm-hmm. Such great advice. And I would say anecdotally, side note, even if the research isn't showing it, I personally believe that students' emotional well-being and academic success, in my experience, particularly ⁓ those that are struggling with depression and anxiety, which are obviously rising significantly on college campuses, ⁓ that their outcomes tend to be better when they are going to... office hours or have a relationship with a professor. And just to the mindset, like I was talking to a patient the other day at NYU and she goes to the classes that she knows, the professor knows her because she's like, I feel like guilty or like I'm visible in some ways, right? So that kind of accountability, particularly if you're really struggling academically or with your mood or kind of getting to class, I think like introducing yourself and your professor, knowing your face and name. Danielle DeNigris (33:17) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (33:29) might be the contingency that some people kind of need when their motivation might be low with school. So, ⁓ well, I can totally understand why people are probably knocking on your door ⁓ for office hours because I could chat with you all day. And I'm so grateful that you're able to come on and help help listeners really understand how approachable most instructors are and really like Danielle DeNigris (33:36) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (33:59) you know, what are the guidelines and framework in which why office hours exist on campus for professors. So thank you so much. Danielle DeNigris (34:06) Yeah. Yeah, thank you. And there are great resources online, even if students just Google, you know, what should I go to office hours for? You know, think it's like UNC Chapel Hill has an entire, you know, page in their learning center dedicated to this that, you know, the listeners can can dive into to look through if they're like, this is great. I think I'm going to work myself up to do it, but I need that extra push. College Is Fine Podcast (34:15) You're right. Right. Push, right. And I need some specific ideas of how I'm going to frame things. OK, well, I'll include that in the show notes. But thank you so much. Danielle DeNigris (34:35) Yeah. Yeah, thank you. This is great. College Is Fine Podcast (34:42) Danielle, I'm gonna press stop. Just make sure when I press stop that on the right hand. Danielle DeNigris (34:44) Okay. I don't do any College Is Fine Podcast (00:11) Okay, great. All right, don't know what happened there. Okay, all right. All right, listeners. mean, I feel like I have full disclosure. I do need to talk about how we really were resilient in the face of a lot of technology issues getting here today. But here we are. And maybe it's like analogous to one of the biggest issues I work with predominantly college students in clinical practice. Sarah and I recently did. Danielle DeNigris (00:12) All right. College Is Fine Podcast (00:39) a talk for graduating seniors at a high school ⁓ and interviewed a lot of college students there. And one of their biggest regrets, they were juniors and seniors, was under utilizing professors, both the relationship with professors as well as utilizing them for support when they're struggling within a class. So who better to talk about demystifying ⁓ office hours and helping college students feel more confident in navigating their relationship with their professors than an actual professor. So we're really, really lucky to have our professor here today that I would love for them to introduce themselves. Danielle DeNigris (01:19) Sure, thank you guys for having me. ⁓ I am Dr. Danielle DeNegress. I am ⁓ an associate professor of psychology in the College of Psychology and Counseling at Fairleigh Dickinson University, which is in New Jersey. Predominantly, we have campuses on... other continents, other countries, but predominantly New Jersey, so I'm on our New Jersey campuses. ⁓ I teach primarily in undergrad. I teach everything from our intro psych course to our upper level courses. you know, I see the full gamut of four-year college students, including transfer students from a lot of our surrounding community colleges who are coming in, you know, kind of midway through that four-year degree. So I'm excited. excited to be here, love talking about how students can kind of get the most out of their college education, regardless of whether they go into psychology or my area or not, really just ensuring students are kind of getting set for the world after college and the rest of their lives, really. College Is Fine Podcast (02:24) Okay, love it. You're good person to have on. I mean, I think everyone takes a general psychology course probably at some point in their university experience, even if they're not a psych major, right? So, you know, a lot of college students hear about office hours, even just that term. And I think like when they walk onto campus, they're not even sure what it is. And it's like listed on a syllabus, right? And maybe the professor explains it, maybe they don't. So let's just kind of break it down really simply. What is the function of office hours? What's the purpose of it? And why should students utilize it? Danielle DeNigris (02:58) Yeah, and honestly I think that's a really important thing that I hadn't thought about when I started teaching. It was something I had gone straight into teaching right out of, you know, almost right out of undergrad because I started adjuncting as a grad student. And I just assumed everybody knows what office hours are, so you go through your syllabus and you say, are my office hours. And some students are like, ⁓ okay. And others are like, I don't know what that means, so I'm just not going to utilize that. unfortunate because office hours are really an opportunity for students to get any help that they need, but also get to know their professors a bit more, talk about future a bit more. And so basically what office hours are all instructors, professors are required to some extent to have a certain number of office hours. And these are not the hours that I do my own personal work ⁓ in the office, but rather hours that are specifically dedicated to meeting with students, right? And so this could be anything. from a student who has a question about course material or a student who wants to go over an exam or assignment that they've submitted or are going to be submitting or it can be a student who wants to talk about what courses they should take next semester or a student who doesn't know if they want to go to grad school or what they should do after you know life in college ⁓ and so really office hours are these sort of open times where students can really get assistance and get to meet with with their faculty get to know them a bit more. And so that your faculty get to know you, which is, I think, sometimes really important for any of the students listening who are at larger universities or places that have huge class sizes. I think that's really important. The first time I ever taught, this was in... College Is Fine Podcast (04:37) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (04:52) It was an undergraduate course at Hunter College and I was given a class size of like 150 students and I was scared because it was my first time teaching that large of a section. But you only get to know students by their names on your grade sheet. And so the students in large classes could really benefit from some FaceTime with their instructors. So they become more than John Smith. College Is Fine Podcast (05:15) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (05:21) you know, ID number or whatever. College Is Fine Podcast (05:24) Right, right, right. You know, I think that, and we'll get to, I think, the benefits of going to office hours, but first we have to think about what's getting in the way of people actually going. ⁓ So I'd love to go through some misconceptions that we have heard from actual either clients that we work with or students that we've interviewed that are in college and kind of looking back. Danielle DeNigris (05:36) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (05:48) One of, think, the biggest misconceptions, and I would love for you to share your opinion about it, is that you're bothering a professor. So, a student has that thought, what should they be thinking in response to the thought? Danielle DeNigris (06:01) So actually love that you use the word bother because now when recently when I go over office hours or when I tell students to email me, I actually say, please don't think that you are bothering me. ⁓ I am quite literally part of my job is office hours. I'm being paid to answer your emails if you can't physically make it into my space or to create a Zoom chat for us to chat. So you are not. bothering me. Those hours are for you. Now, if let's say you need to meet with your professor outside of office hours, you know, send an email to make sure that they have that time to meet with you. But if they say their office hour is, you know, Tuesday from 1 to, you know, 3 p.m. and you show up at 2 p.m., you're not bothering them. That is the time for you. And, you know... Some instructors may be nicer than others. They may be in the middle of a task and, you know, be understanding that they may have to wrap something up quickly, but this is the time for you. You aren't bothering them. They're supposed to be bothered by you during this time. College Is Fine Podcast (07:07) Right, right, right, right. I share sometimes with my patients that I was like, ⁓ I kept office hours as a TA for stats. And I was like, it wasn't the most demoralizing thing ever sitting there and nobody shows up. It's actually, it's more bothersome. It's like there's no reinforcement from the students that they're like, and now again, I'm empathetic to the reasons why maybe they're not there, but I actually felt like it was the opposite. Like when somebody would actually show up, I was like, my gosh, hallelujah. Somebody's actually coming. ⁓ Okay, I think another, I hear this a lot too. I don't know what I'm gonna talk about. Like I haven't fully defined what I need help with, and then therefore I'm not gonna go, right? So what would you say to like a student that's kind of confused about what they need help with or their questions that they have and how to get over that obstacle to coming to office hours? Danielle DeNigris (08:04) Yeah, I mean, that can definitely be a barrier, right? You're like, A, I already think I'm bothering them, and I also don't know exactly what I need help with, so I don't wanna go in there and be like, hi, I don't know what I need, and then think that you're bothering them. You're not, what I would recommend is, think of the general topic. So if, let's say, you're going in because you're like, I feel like I'm not getting the material, and you may not know exactly the specific thing that you're not getting, and that's okay, right? come in and let the instructor know that you are struggling with grasping material. they can, they're ideally professionals in their field, they understand what they want from their students to succeed. And so sometimes I'll have students coming in and be like, you know, I'm just not getting the material. And it could be because maybe they aren't taking notes efficiently and so we could talk about note taking. Or maybe it's because. College Is Fine Podcast (08:57) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (09:00) They missed a class and they genuinely just need some help catching up on the material they missed. That's very straightforward. It also might be a student who's like, I think I'm doing well and then I get to the test and I'm struggling and we can talk about study skills. It's some students who are like, I did really well in a similar course but now I'm struggling in this course and so maybe it's translating material from one content to another that can be talked about. ⁓ If students have specific questions, that's always... College Is Fine Podcast (09:19) Right. Danielle DeNigris (09:29) great and makes organizing office hours easy on my end. But even if you don't know exactly what it is you want to talk about, coming in with a general sort of, I need assistance in this area, whether it's I'm doing poorly on exams or assignments, or I'm unclear of what the assignment instructions are, or I'm sitting in class and it's just not sinking in. Even something as broad as that. College Is Fine Podcast (09:56) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (09:57) can help frame that discussion. And you're not going to be, I think the most important thing for students to remember, you're not the first one to have come in saying something vague, right? And so I assure you, you're not the first to ask a question that maybe isn't as strong of a question as you think it should be. There's someone else who has asked something even vaguer, and likely there's been at least 10 people before you saying that exact same thing. College Is Fine Podcast (10:05) Right, right, right, right. Right. Right, right. I love that idea that like, okay, even if there's a broad question that you have or something that's really vague, that like a reminder that your instructor is, this is not their first rodeo. They've been there before and likely putting two heads together to kind of even figure out and define the problem is better than you spinning your wheels in your dorm room and maybe feeling more helpless about the course that you're taking. ⁓ Okay, so lot of good questions and topics to bring up during office hours. Are there any topics that maybe, or things that maybe it's not the best use of your time when you come to office hours that ⁓ students should keep in mind to kind of some of the don'ts? Danielle DeNigris (11:08) Yeah, so I will say, so one of the first things is, especially if you're at a larger institution, I would send your professor an email, even if it's five minutes before you're gonna show up, just saying, hi, this is so and so from this class. I'm gonna pop into your office hours. I wanna talk about X, Y, or Z. And again, this could be that vague thing about how I'm doing in your class is fine enough for me. ⁓ That way it gives your instructor a little like prep time. So if, you know, I can pull up someone's grades in the class, I can have that like, you know, part of my LMS system open already so I could see how they're doing. Or I can, you know, pull out their physical exams if that's what they wanna do. So we're not sort of, we're hitting the ground running kind of when we're going. So a little heads up, especially if you're in a large class and your instructor may not know your face immediately, you know, I'm thinking of like my 150, 200 person classroom, I'm like, College Is Fine Podcast (12:01) Right, right. Danielle DeNigris (12:05) I recognize you from being in my classroom. I cannot put your face to your name. So that's helpful. I would also say another maybe like less optimal use of office hour ⁓ is, you know, if you miss a class and you want the instructor to go through the entire lecture that you missed, that would be, you know, that's not what office hours are. However, what office hours are, are for you to have gone through. College Is Fine Podcast (12:10) to her name, right? Right. Danielle DeNigris (12:34) either a classmate's notes or the textbook or the lecture slides, whatever you have, and then coming in with specific questions of, you know, I went through, I missed class, I went through this on my own, but I'm really confused about, you know, this topic. Would you mind going over that, giving some examples again? And that is a better way of getting at it than, hi, I missed class last week. Can you teach me the class? You know, there's likely not time to do that. College Is Fine Podcast (12:41) questions, right? Mm-hmm. way. Mm-hmm. to reteach it for them. totally get it. I'm glad you brought up email because this is, you know, I find there's like some ⁓ phobia of ⁓ a lot of students would rather send emails than going in person to office hours. And any guidelines or practical tips of like, what would be more appropriate to send via an email versus what would be more appropriate you think to come in person to office hours? Danielle DeNigris (13:28) Yeah, so I think email is great for very specific questions that have answers, right? Where it's like, I got question 10 wrong on this assignment and I'm not sure why, right? Or, you know, I am unclear about this specific topic. You know, the example that we talked about in class didn't make sense. Is there another example? Or, I was really interested in this topic. Do you have any other resources, you know, that I should look into? Those are ones that I can quickly send you a nice email. Other things like, I'm not sure. I think I'm thinking about grad school, and I want to apply to grad school. Those are not really email questions, because I'm going to have to send you thousands and thousands of back and forth. So I would say things that have a specific answer. I wanted to confirm that the exam is taking place next week, whatever it might be. Things that you know are going to have an answer. College Is Fine Podcast (14:11) question. Yeah, yeah. Danielle DeNigris (14:25) Right? These less open-ended conversations I think are great for email. And usually your instructor is going to have some sort of email policy on their syllabus. Mine says that if I don't answer you in 48 hours, resend your email because I opened it on my phone, forgot about it, and didn't answer you. So please don't think you're bothering me. Email me again. College Is Fine Podcast (14:28) questions. Yeah. Right, right. Right. OK. I find those practical tips are great. I think it really is like a reminder and hopefully some reassurance that ⁓ it is part of a professor's job to hold office hours. ⁓ They are interested in meeting with students, right? And that too broad or narrow, specific, whatever it is that you're kind of coming in with. I really think this idea that putting your heads together to kind of figure out what the problem is and hopefully problem solving some solutions is better than waiting to the point where you really feel like there's no salvaging your grade within a course. ⁓ Can we pivot a little bit to talk about the connections and relationships with professors? So, one of ⁓ the... Danielle DeNigris (15:33) Yes. College Is Fine Podcast (15:38) ⁓ female students that we kind of interviewed at the end of last year, she was saying like, she got to the end, she ⁓ had just graduated from college and she's like, I didn't have like one meaningful connection with a professor and now I'm in a position where I'm applying to jobs or to grad school and how, the difference between high school. right, where you see the same person every day, there's a level of accountability and familiarity. And, you know, this student was at a larger university and there was less intimacy, like between her and her professors. And she said she really regretted, you know, that she didn't work harder on forming, you know, stronger relationships and mentorships with professors. So maybe you could speak a little bit about like, Danielle DeNigris (16:03) Right. right. College Is Fine Podcast (16:29) how you view yourself as a professor and your role in that, and ⁓ why that might be important for freshmen students or even upperclassmen to kind of think about in their time on campus. Danielle DeNigris (16:43) Yeah, so you mentioned the idea of like, I'm applying to either grad school or to jobs and I need these like references and I have no one to put down. And I think that's a really important part of office hours where those can work to your advantage, right? Where you can chat with your faculty about your goals, your ideas. And this doesn't have to be something that you have to start. your freshman year, right? You're not expected when you come into college to know what you want to do with your life. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life until the end of my senior year. So it's okay to not know that and to be a little, you know, vague in your questions and things. But you can broach that subject with just, I'm interested in other classes in this discipline. And it doesn't even have to be, ideally it's in your major, right? But any faculty that you find interesting, if you're sitting in the classroom and you're like, this person is engaging, I like the way they teach, I'm interested in the topic. College Is Fine Podcast (17:41) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (17:49) Faculty love to hear that first off. And so starting those relationships are really important to then build on those. So you have someone who, even if you're not in their class, the next semester you can go to as a resource. ⁓ And so I think that that's also one of the misconceptions is that the office hours are only for class. College Is Fine Podcast (17:52) I Danielle DeNigris (18:12) Right? And once class is done, that professor is no longer obligated to meet with you to do it. Office hours are, I am... paid to be in my office to meet with any student that wants to come in to chat with me about anything during that time. And so that can be particularly helpful. And even just conversations of, know, hi, I'm a freshman, you know, this is my first semester in college, you know, I'm a little unclear about expectations. I'd love to pick your brain about some things that you think I should know about, I don't know, the philosophy major, the psychology major. ⁓ that can be helpful for me. And that's something that's gonna set you up for success, right? And it's also gonna start that relationship where now that person knows that you care, knows that you're concerned. You know, I always say this to students, come to me before, you know, College Is Fine Podcast (19:13) Mm. Danielle DeNigris (19:14) the water is up to your knees, right? Come to me when you start hearing the rain and things are, and you wanna get in at the ground level, right? And so I think that that's really helpful to form those connections because I think about when I have a student who didn't really... interact with me often either outside of class or even you know in the five minutes before or after class, right? And they asked for a letter of recommendation and the best I can write is this is how they performed on exams. This is how they performed, you know on assessments. They graduated with this GPA. They took these classes. That's not a meaningful recommendation, right? Whereas if I can say, you know, this person was really motivated to learn. They came in to office hours regularly. College Is Fine Podcast (19:40) Right. Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (20:04) to ask about topics, they were really critically thinking about course material. These are things that I can put into a letter that when you're applying to, I think about in terms of grad school, because I read grad school admission letters, those are the things that are meaningful. Because I'm like, okay, this is what's gonna set somebody apart from the same GPA person. know, theirs, that hey, this person built those relationships, their faculty say they're motivated, they care, they put in the extra time, you know, so I think even just that can be helpful. College Is Fine Podcast (20:42) Yeah, I think that's something that, you you are on this treadmill to like get to college, right? And it's like this like really fast paced thing and then you get there and you forget about a lot of things that you did likely that helped you be successful, let's say in high school. And one of those things I really think about just in terms of just wellness in general is this like community aspect and really integrating yourself within the community. Danielle DeNigris (20:49) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (21:10) And I think there's so much anxiety about making friends, right? That a lot of college students don't zoom out and see that there is a lot of people besides same age peers on a college campus that can really help your adjustment to school as well as make your time there meaningful. I'd love to hear like. Aside from helping, I'm assuming you're in this profession because you care about education, you care about what you're teaching, you like this age group, but what do you enjoy out of the one-on-one conversations as a professor when you're meeting with students? Danielle DeNigris (21:38) you Honestly, I like getting to know the students themselves. I think, to be honest, it helps me frame my lectures moving forward. It helps me, you know. know who to reach out, like, you if I get a student who comes into office hours, because they're like, you know, I'm struggling right now because I had to take on a second job to pay bills or something, or, you know, my mom's in the hospital, or things like this, which is also another great use of office hours, right, to talk about these things, you know, with your professors so that they know, you know, that you're going through something, so that they know to maybe reach out a bit more if you are forgetting to submit things, right? ⁓ So I like knowing that because then I know if John Smith, I'm going to keep saying John Smith I guess in the Pocahontas mindset, if this student keeps, they tell me that they had to take on a second job and I notice that they didn't submit an assignment on time, I know that it's not because... they just didn't care about the assignment, not that I assume that of my students anyway, but I can reach out and be like, hey John, notice that you didn't submit that assignment. Is there anything going on that maybe prevented you from doing this? Do you need an extension? Should I connect you with other resources? And I think that that could be helpful. I also think, now that I brought that up, ⁓ College Is Fine Podcast (22:54) Right. Danielle DeNigris (23:16) Another use of office hours is if you don't know who to go to get an answer to your question, right? Your faculty member, because at least you have that FaceTime with them in class, so maybe it's a little less frightening to go into office hours and say, hey, I am having issues with, I don't know, paying my bill and I don't know who to contact or where that office is located. Your faculty member will know that or will know how to get the answer to you. And so that could be a College Is Fine Podcast (23:21) Right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (23:46) use of office hours, know, do I need to connect you with this resource or this resource or hey, did you know we have, you know, I'm thinking with like SNAP benefits not being paid, you know, in a day or two, you know, did you know we have a food pantry on campus and that it's free for students and you can access it here and here's where it's located, you know, things like that that maybe students aren't aware of, faculty likely know about. College Is Fine Podcast (24:11) Yeah, I'm so happy that you're pointing that out that I think sometimes, and this is no shade to some of the departments on campus, but I'll even with a patient call something and nobody picks up, right? It goes to a voicemail. A lot of these places are really busy. And I think having a familiar face and somebody that alive in the moment, catching them after class, kind of remembering that like, you know, there are people on campus that maybe you wouldn't think to go ask and like your professor likely can kind of guide you in the direction or make a connection for you. ⁓ And that ultimately a lot of these things that you even just mentioned are going to affect your academic performance, right? So we want, and your attendance at class or et cetera. So ⁓ I wanted to kind of, you know, I was thinking a little bit about how ⁓ I have a patient currently who is the first in their family to go to college. And we were talking about going to office hours and I was thinking about how a lot of other clients that I have, their parents are often the ones like, have you met with your professor? Have you met with your professor? Right? Like anytime there's like some sort of struggle, they have like a million people, you know, their older sisters like, have you met with your professor? Your parents met with your professor, now their therapist is saying it. But this particular student, Danielle DeNigris (25:23) huh, huh. College Is Fine Podcast (25:37) really was like very confused by the concept and also ⁓ had a lot of these myths, right, about, you bothering, et cetera. And I was saying to them at the beginning of the semester, I was like, just go to, just introduce yourself. Like what, even without like a question, right? Like, how can you kind of just get familiar with this idea that ⁓ you can kind of pop in? ⁓ So I was thinking a little bit about if you could speak a little bit to maybe the student that's not really familiar with college life and doesn't have a lot of exposure to it or a lot of support within their community or their family, ⁓ what you would say to them as a freshman coming onto campus. Danielle DeNigris (26:21) Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually one of the things, so I teach an educational psychology class and one of the... TED Talks that I show them is from a Harvard professor who, you know, grew up in a, you know, marginalized community, low income in, I believe it's in Florida. And, but he was lucky in that he had gotten a scholarship to private schools for his, you know, education for high school. And so he was like, I can go into college knowing what office hours are and how I can use them to my advantage. He's like, but my peers from my neighborhood didn't, right? And if your parents didn't go to college, if neighborhood friends and folks aren't currently in college, you don't have older siblings who are in college, why would you know that office hours are important, right? It's just something that faculty kind of throw on a syllabus and say at you, right? And so I think it's one of these things that, you know. faculty teaching sort of like those like first semester courses need to be mindful of, but that students, know, if I'm a first generation student, this is, you I don't have assistance regardless of who you are. ⁓ I would approach office hours as simply, you know, start with the introduction, right, as you mentioned, you know. Hi, I'm Danielle DeNegres. I'm in your Gen Psych class. I just wanted to introduce myself. This is my first semester here and I'm really excited to learn about psychology. know, either because maybe you want to be a psychologist or you're a psych major or you're like, you know, I'm... College Is Fine Podcast (28:03) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (28:06) in the nursing program and you know I'm really excited to learn about psychology and how you know that might apply to nursing. Right? So I just wanted to even if it's just a five minute conversation of I just wanted to introduce myself put you know my face in your mind. Right? And as a professor I can tell you that is so helpful for me. Right? Because now I already know who you are. I'm not going to be struggling as much being like, okay, trying to memorize who's who, like people's names. And so you've already formed that relationship, right? That bond is there. And then now that you got that hard part of, hi, I'm in your class, over with, I think it becomes easier. College Is Fine Podcast (28:33) Right, right. Right. Danielle DeNigris (28:47) to then reach out and say, hey, I'm struggling or hey, I have a question, right? But again, maybe you're shy, maybe you're super introverted and you're like, there is a 0 % chance that I am walking into my professor's office and saying, hi, I'm so and so nice to meet you. I get it. That's fine. I was very shy as an undergrad, which is anybody that knows me now thinks that's insane, but I was very shy, very quiet as an undergrad. And so I get it. Send an email. College Is Fine Podcast (28:50) Yeah, yeah. You Danielle DeNigris (29:17) Talk to them before or after class, right? After that first class, hi, Dr. Negers, you know, it was great meeting with you. I'm really excited for this class. I'm so and so, I'm majoring in this, whatever. Already, okay, great. Thanks for letting me know, fantastic. You know, I think that's also helpful if you're like, I can't just go into office hours. Do it after class, you're already there. The professor's already expecting some students to like say something as they're leaving, like, bye, nice class, nice to meet you. Do it then. College Is Fine Podcast (29:35) Right, right, right. think that's a really good tip to ⁓ not wait till there's like a five alarm fire when you're already anxious to meet with them. that's also when you're introducing yourself to them. ⁓ And that who knows, like that you might be fine for the whole rest of the semester and like never need to go to office hours and really maybe don't feel like that's the professor that you want to kind of form a connection with, but at least you get this practice of. Danielle DeNigris (29:53) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (30:11) relationship building and initiation with a professor where I think this like authority student dynamic makes them very worried and nervous. Okay, well, yeah, we're gonna say, yeah, yeah. Danielle DeNigris (30:23) Yeah, and the, can I just add one more? Yeah. So I'm gonna pull in research just slightly. So the research on office hours is a little mixed just because obviously. College Is Fine Podcast (30:30) ⁓ love this. Danielle DeNigris (30:37) Colleges are different. Are you talking about a four-year or two-year, right? Regions are different. Disciplines are different. Sizes of schools are different, right? So it's a little hard to get like a general consensus of like office hours lead to X, Y, or Z. But where the research is actually pretty consistent across the board is with first-generation and minoritized students in that College Is Fine Podcast (30:46) Yeah. Danielle DeNigris (31:03) we see sort of better retention in college and better GPAs during those classes or in those semesters, right? And so for those students, I think it's helpful because you don't know this new life and you don't have somebody perhaps who's done it before you that you do feel comfortable going to, you know, at least until you make those friends with your peers and you can chit chat, right? But so having that person College Is Fine Podcast (31:27) Mm-hmm. Danielle DeNigris (31:31) and that relationship where you're like, okay, I feel comfortable enough going up to them. And you'll get a feel for that, right? You know, we all know the personalities that we kind of mesh with best. And you'll get a feel for that as the semester kind of goes on. So if you do that introduction day one of like, hi, I'm so and so, great to be in your class, really looking forward to the semester. And then you can be like, okay, definitely not this professor. I don't think this is gonna be the person I go to. Or like, you know what, this one, I love this class. I wanna chat with them, great. I'm a Latin American studies minor for the only reason because I had a professor my first semester of college that I loved and I went to him for guidance. I took a bunch of his classes as electives and I have a Latin American studies minor that I absolutely don't use. but had great relationships. He wrote me a letter of recommendation for grad school. You know, we still are in touch to this day. And so it doesn't have to be the person in your major that you think is gonna be the most helpful for that discipline. That person that you feel comfortable going to is gonna end up being the most helpful. College Is Fine Podcast (32:21) Right. Mm-hmm. Such great advice. And I would say anecdotally, side note, even if the research isn't showing it, I personally believe that students' emotional well-being and academic success, in my experience, particularly ⁓ those that are struggling with depression and anxiety, which are obviously rising significantly on college campuses, ⁓ that their outcomes tend to be better when they are going to... office hours or have a relationship with a professor. And just to the mindset, like I was talking to a patient the other day at NYU and she goes to the classes that she knows, the professor knows her because she's like, I feel like guilty or like I'm visible in some ways, right? So that kind of accountability, particularly if you're really struggling academically or with your mood or kind of getting to class, I think like introducing yourself and your professor, knowing your face and name. Danielle DeNigris (33:17) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (33:29) might be the contingency that some people kind of need when their motivation might be low with school. So, ⁓ well, I can totally understand why people are probably knocking on your door ⁓ for office hours because I could chat with you all day. And I'm so grateful that you're able to come on and help help listeners really understand how approachable most instructors are and really like Danielle DeNigris (33:36) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (33:59) you know, what are the guidelines and framework in which why office hours exist on campus for professors. So thank you so much. Danielle DeNigris (34:06) Yeah. Yeah, thank you. And there are great resources online, even if students just Google, you know, what should I go to office hours for? You know, think it's like UNC Chapel Hill has an entire, you know, page in their learning center dedicated to this that, you know, the listeners can can dive into to look through if they're like, this is great. I think I'm going to work myself up to do it, but I need that extra push. College Is Fine Podcast (34:15) You're right. Right. Push, right. And I need some specific ideas of how I'm going to frame things. OK, well, I'll include that in the show notes. But thank you so much. Danielle DeNigris (34:35) Yeah. Yeah, thank you. This is great. College Is Fine Podcast (34:42) Danielle, I'm gonna press stop. Just make sure when I press stop that on the right hand. Danielle DeNigris (34:44) Okay. I don't do any