Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Next Step | a conversation with Sarah Wells

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The Next Step | a conversation with Sarah Wells · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: It means so much to have you choose to take our conversation along with you today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide simple plans for life's most creative endeavors.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: The culture around us lulls us to mediocracy.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Half a week to our purpose, and more often than not, seems as if everyone around us is celebrating half-heartedness.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: But we believe there is more to your story.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Awaken your heart with extraordinary tales of the ordinary.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Find encouragement as you discover your creative purpose and be empowered to create your unique masterpiece in life, family, and community.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: I am continuing to enjoy changing things up this season of the podcast.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: So today, Katie and I are going to intro my conversation with Sarah Wells with the conversation recapping Just Say No January.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you listened to my birthday episode number 79 back in December, Katie shared her philosophy behind Just Say No January, and now we'll give an update on our experience.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: We've loved getting the feedback from you all and would love continue to hear more ways you've decided to just say no, and what is going to continue to stay a no in February, and then maybe what you realize you miss and you want to pick up again.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Saying no is really hard for me.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: And there are some no's you might grieve, and others you might find bring a ton of joy.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: And in doing our three weeks to new year, we say no to jumping right into a pace we can't sustain.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: We say no so we can pause and discover our best intention for the year ahead, and get clarity for our best yes.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot happens when you say just no.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of feelings, there are a lot of things that rise to the surface, things you discover about yourself.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really important to take a moment to reflect and examine those before we just charge forward into February.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: What do you call February again?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: What's February for you?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, forget it February.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Forget it February.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's there's one for every month in case you need to continue or um if you're starting then.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I like that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's really good.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: We have a a mutual new friend that I know through Instagram.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: You introduced us.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: She shared a hashtag today called Begin.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I I kind of think adopting that in a in a way.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: So so you and I have done just say no January.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's January 31st.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking at February.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: February for me has a lot to begin.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: To begin again, to begin new.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of curious.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to tell specific things that you, you know, decided to say no to, but you had a couple of things that you were going to say yes to, and probably some things you were going to say no to.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: But just take us, share us a little bit with us what that's looked like, what you've learned.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So some of them I've catalogued on Instagram, you know, saying no to excuses, saying no to anxiety, um, saying no to decisions that are just dictated by what's going on around you instead of actually owning the decision, but realizing you have a say in it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think really one of the biggest things that several folks who reached out to me from our podcast in December, some of whom got to it this week, oh awesome.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Send me the link again.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the gals was like, Man, I I'm so glad I heard that because I've been beating myself up for feeling guilty because I said no to things and that I knew I was making a conscious choice, and I just said no.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I don't feel bad anymore.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Because I was doing that, I was drawing really stark boundary lines.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then another one shared how she um had said yes to something that she felt obligated to do.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: She felt like because she worked from home, which classified her then as a stay-at-home mom, even though she was at home, um, she felt like that she needed to say yes to something at her kids' school.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she it just it was just really hard.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I don't love it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I never felt the freedom to say no.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes it's that permission that we give ourselves.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: But also for me, I think it's a really good habit of setting aside time to look at where my yeses are, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And to see if that always makes sense.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had this fascinating conversation with a girlfriend this weekend because we talk about I talk about being me and the my circles and doing it consistently.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she pointed out that some of my yeses had basically blown my other boundaries.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: They sort of like that take took advantage.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really interesting to talk through, yeah, you know, I said yes to that, but that doesn't mean that they get car blanched to go all the time.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was good to think about um just constantly reevaluating where we're giving where I'm giving my time.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also realizing that sometimes a yes is gonna take more time than I thought.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had a project that I thought was gonna be done by Thursday.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, it's not gonna be done on Thursday.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's there needs to be a lot of grace because I like my boxes checked.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I write a list, I'll even add something to a list so that I can cross it off.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I did that just yesterday, in fact.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, but suffice it to say, I like my lists and I like to check marks, but just because I didn't finish something, yeah, doesn't mean I failed.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having to reevaluate that the time that that project requires, and I gave my yes to it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm gonna finish it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the repercussions of that means that I don't have as much time for other things.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think that's a really healthy place to be, you know?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved Courtney's post today because she said, you know, when we can when any of us consider the the entire list of everything we have to do, she's any we freeze by the weight of it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes at the beginning of January or the end of January, we look down this entire year of what we think we're gonna do all year long, or what we're gonna accomplish by spring break or by the end of the school year.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that the weight of all of that almost seems unbearable.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like oh my gosh, what do I even do?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And her piece pointed to break it down into smaller projects and do one at a time because each step of beginning builds on itself.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's so good.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you covered a couple things there for you.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: The just say no January, you had a big project, so there was a lot of no's that you're gonna have to give, but there were things that came to the top of the pile that be were urgent and they took precedence.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so that project extends a little bit longer, which also means your forget it February is in full swing because you have to give some no's in order to finish well and complete it.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you send I I think you touched on something really important too, and I wrote a little bit about this yesterday or earlier this week on Instagram, just that idea of failure is not completing it when you thought you needed to complete it a failure.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: Not necessarily.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Was I trying?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Was I being proactive towards the goal?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and sometimes, and I know personally, I know what this project is, I know what your schedule has looked like because I've been holding your, you know, holding you accountable, and it was fascinating to watch whether it was the enemy or life or God's grace and his timing because there's something more to come to the surface in you or in this project.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: For me, even a month ago, I would say about six weeks ago, before I had some of my revolutionary conversations and insight and things that kind of bubbled to the surface, where I was living in this thing, this whirl of emotion, every time something would maybe not go as planned, or I didn't get as much done as I thought, or I didn't meet a goal, I took it as I I personally failed and I was doing something wrong, and I had to catch up.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Instead, today, using the grace frame of reference and some of the the freedom that I found before Christmas, I went, you know what?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I did the most important thing, and therefore there's gonna be enough time to do all the other things, and it wasn't time to do those things.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of this for me, the shifting for the overachiever who can, you know, I'm not talking about I went and Netflix spinged and therefore I didn't get things done.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, I know you weren't like it's not it's not licensed to be lazy, exactly, it's it's just acknowledging that sometimes we stretch, sometimes we reach, and yeah, when we don't make it, we haven't failed.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, exactly.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so in your just say no, January, is there anything that you're you feel now, hey, I'm gonna keep saying no, this is right, this is good, and and what are maybe are there some things that you said no to in January, but you're really excited to add back in?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I get to add a whole lot back in right now.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of it was this this year, it was perspective shift.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was realizing some.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if the first year was saying no to external asks, um, someone wants me to do this or that, I've gotten a lot more comfortable saying, I'm sorry I can't.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I would really say this month has really been about realizing um some internal no's that I need I need to actually keep because I thought I thought I said, I thought I was saying yes to something because I believe in it, because I am supportive of it, and therefore I should say yes.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what I really realized is that I can believe in something, support something, wholeheartedly cheer for something or someone, but that doesn't mean I should take it on.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's probably gonna be an ongoing wrestle for me.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um my girlfriend this weekend, um, she was talking about something and she goes, This doesn't really sound nice, but sometimes in my head I say, that's a them problem, not a you problem.
• 11:38
  unknown: Right.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, this is good.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, that's how she coaches herself, and she's like, that's a them problem, not a you problem.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and really what that made me think as she left was not only is it not a me problem, God has ordained a specific, if it's a burden that I'm supposed to carry, he's gonna give me the grace to carry it and he's gonna provide for it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's someone else's, if I step in just because I could, right, do I rob them of what they really need?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's kind of a squishy thing to talk through and think about, and and it's it's a learning process of of really praying through circumstances or relationships, and I'm not gonna get it right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for the for I like to be right in the middle of uh yes, this is the right answer.
• 12:39
  unknown: Right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a there's some that's gonna take a lot of faith.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, lots of prayerful consideration because it's not a blanket easy thing.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: What you're talking about is a sort of in essence boundaries.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's tough.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was just talking to some other friends about that, you know, boundaries and relationships.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: No one wants to be limited on their freedom, especially when it's the other person who feels like their freedom's being limited when approaching you.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it takes some finesse and it and it takes it takes a lot of grace to to walk it out well.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but what you know, I think especially when we're talking again to other women who who like to help, who want to be a part of fixing it, to provide a solution, to utilize their gifts and talents and know they can.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's when we are weighing, we need to weigh in the season, we need to weigh in, and for for you know, you and I have talked about this, weigh in what is it that I actually want to do?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that's very valid because again, with the boundaries and everyone's gonna ask, and most of us are very able to do a lot of things, but it doesn't mean that we always should.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's the biggest, it's one of the biggest takeaways every time I I do a season of just say no, January or extend it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's this concept of dumping the shoulds.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, anytime my vocabulary I should this or I should that, that's probably a good time to stop.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Pause.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um or you know, I think we talked about in December, the qualifiers.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime we can say we say always or never.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think really one of the biggest too is realizing that there's there's fun to be had in saying no.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not like, well, yeah, sort of, because it's it's my mindset, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I started saying hashtag just say no to sugar, hashtag just say no to laundry.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wait, I can't.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh shoot.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Not my season.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but I think when we stop trying to do all the things and try to be more or try harder or jump through every who I start to do what matters.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I concentrate on being me instead of her, my life isn't gonna look like yours any more than yours is gonna look like mine.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so why am I judging my life by your to-do list or your successes or failures or accomplishments?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to be me.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then do my best.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I for myself wrote, like, if I'm not gonna jump through every hoop, I'm gonna hula hoop.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not like we should be enjoying our life.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because God's given us an abundant life and He prepares us and equips us and goes with us.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So surely He He desires for us to enjoy it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I agree.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is and and oftentimes it takes to getting to the other side.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know, you know, I kind of knew there were some things that I was gonna have to wrestle with and figure out how do I say no, do I really say no?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And what it was what is it that I really want in the process.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, what I wanted and what I knew was the right thing to do outweighed what I thought I wanted and what it is at one time I knew I wanted to do.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: It does that make sense, and so now on the other side of of saying no and walking through it, and and even honestly, there's some no's that I had to grieve, and that that in there too, for me, the permission to grieve and the freedom to do that, that's real, you have to walk that out, and and then you you can grow through it and figure out what it was that was hard and what you know why you felt the way you did, but then but then also if you can give yourself the grace to walk through that grieving process, then there's a lot of joy to be had on the other side when there's peace that follows and freedom that follows, and what rises to the surface, you know, is what matters most, and you have some more time for that, and you don't feel so crunched to give the important things the importance that it needs.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I know one of those places you get said no, and um I think it resonates with some of the conversations I had with folks who listen to our December piece where they um they said, Man, I I felt like I should do this and I'm doing it, and I just I don't think I'm gonna say yes again.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like as much as you want to be the one, like you want to be the mom who's in your kid's classroom.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Being honest with yourself about that is okay.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um because it's not it's not a bad thing, especially if it opens the space to see how God was wiring you.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, especially or doing something else, like he he has a different plan in mind.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: We get in our own way of that if we're continuing to do all the things we think we should do without seeking the Lord.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I I think a perfect specific example would be the work from home mom, who not maybe not everyone understands what they do and that they have to put in a full eight hours, saying no to the kids, you know, going help with reading lab or the PTA, you know, project or whatever.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: If they can then, when their kids are at school, be fully focused on work, needing to get done so they can be fully focused and present when their kids get home.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I think in the end that's the win, and that's the more important thing than showing up to something that you're not really passionate about.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's someone else who could probably do it for you, and then takes away from the evening that you have with the whole entire family because of what you gave for an hour at school earlier that day.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: So the payoff there is a lot better.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's it's all good things, and yes, your kid would appreciate it, and yes, your teacher would appreciate it, and yes, it makes good looks good, and yes, you might even enjoy it a little bit, but in the end, does it take away from the most important things in this season of life?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and even if it's not an eight-hour day, I think um, you know, this idea that we work from home, it's so nuanced, but right, um, but a lot of women do.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a lot of women work part-time from home, and the the trick that we're all trying to figure out how to do well is to do the that work um in a way or a time period where it doesn't take away from our kids and so that we can be present with them.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we're gonna talk a little bit more about that next week with Jessica Turner in Stretch Too Thin.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited for that conversation.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: But um, before we start the conversation with Sarah Wells, I wanted to hear how it went uh with the family devotional Bible that you gave your family was under the Christmas tree this last Christmas.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it was on one of the giveaways, and she was so sweet.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I really enjoyed getting to talk with her, and so I'm excited to share just kind of her process of creativity and um thought behind it.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was really well thought out, but I would love to hear firsthand experience of what you've thought so far.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, let's be real honest.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I went honest.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just say no January included starting new things.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we um I consciously decided um to talk about it and kind of build it up, and it's been around where we've talked about it as a family.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yeah, we're gonna start that in February.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I've looked at um some of the chapters and the stories, and I love that they're familiar stories because what that does is that allows us to um it's familiar, I think, to any family, regardless of whether they've done something like that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Mark and I both come from different places of what kind of Bible stories were heard in church growing up.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my kids have moved, Amelia's moved five times, Abs has moved three.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So every church we've been to is a little different about kids' church.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, but the same thing is true is that there's a few stories that kind of rise to the surface.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I'm excited about digging into those in a way that is really meaningful.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it allows us as parents to read, uh kind of read ahead.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's how I'm gonna do it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right, know what I'm getting myself into.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's Because I'm a planner.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I kind of like to be prepared for the conversations and be thinking about it a little bit.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where we are.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have not actually dived in.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't I I think we shared this maybe on the with the with the giveaway, but I love that some of the beginning is tips to keeping kids engaged.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that is good.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually used some of those already for our some of our other family times.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um the girls got um write the word journals.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we've we've done that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've been drawing pictures and writing out verses, and just calling that journaling.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you can do that with any age.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited about um adding to that with this devotional study by Sarah Wells.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it'll be fun to see if we can make that even just like a weekly thing we do as a family on like a Sunday night.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's great.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, it looks gonna be maybe more of a weekly thing than a daily thing where some of us have that pressure.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um weekly is a good goal for me.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it is too.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then if they ask for more, then that's a huge win.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which I'd rather do.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think there probably will come a time where just for momentum, it might be something we do a couple times a week.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but the reality between dance and homework and you know, work events, school events, I'm playing outside.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there's a reason we are doing one activity.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's kind of antithetical to most families that I'm like, we get to do one thing because I want you to have time to play outside and be kids.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Be free.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's that's really good and and honest.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just excited to think about the families getting in the word more and what you said, where she pairs you know the activity with a lot of different ideas and suggestions of how to keep the kids engaged and and all of that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, I can't wait to hear, I can't hear wait to hear your chat.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you'll really like her.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: This will be fun.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna queue up that next here, and I'm gonna talk to you uh next week and we're gonna chat about Jessica Turner.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be fun.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whoop, her book is her ebook is on sale.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, the ebook is on sale through this month for uh either$1.99 or$2.99.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um January 31st, if you're listening to this when this drops, or if you subscribe, it uploads on Wednesday night.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: FYI.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you subscribe to, well, because of how iTunes works and all the different socials, if you're subscribed to the podcast on any of the like Spotify, iTunes, iHeartRadio, then as soon as it uploads, which is by eight o'clock on Wednesday night, it'll upload to your phone.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes it can take 24 hours if you're not subscribed for it to be able to show up.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a benefit to being a subscriber.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's great.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: The more subscribers, the better.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: We love getting the word out about all this good stuff.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us kind of what your life and your world looks like.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I have three children and I'm married, and we um our lives all revolve in a little small town in um Ashland, Ohio, is where I'm in.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I lived in Ohio for well, I can't remember how many years, but until I was 18 and uh in Akron, Ohio.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: So Okay.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's my husband's from Akron.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_04: So we're we lived up in Akron for uh probably four or five years.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, fun, awesome.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Small world.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is, it is.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: So for you, um, writing, where where did you find that you discover that you love to write and has led you to all this, you know, kind of really the side career?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I have always loved to write.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: I've written like from the time that I could actually put pen to paper, I was fiddling with stories.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: So from a really young age, I just have always loved to read, I've always loved to write.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I didn't realize that I could actually do anything with that until like getting into college and then finding out I have probably the most impractical or one of the most impractical degrees in creative writing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, but you got a degree.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: Not many people will pay you to write a poem.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: So true, very true.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's given me, you know, in I've made opportunities out of that.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, I I just adore storytelling.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've always dabbled with writing ever since college, or well, ever since I was really young, but the especially in college, and then after college, um, I would write blogs from time to time and send out a newsletter to family and friends with my thoughts in them, and uh just gradually have um had other opportunities to write other things and grow in that way.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's just always been, I guess, just a part of me.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's um probably I feel like it's my most for me, it's the most impactful spiritual practice that I have too.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um now what why do you say that?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's a pretty, you know, big leap.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: I feel similarly, but I'm kind of curious to know your experience and that connection for you.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um I don't I think it's just the way that I'm wired, but um I feel like writing is a a type of prayer for me.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's a a place that I feel like I can really connect, um, where my my mental and emotional uh place, I could go to the page and have an idea about what I want to say.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: But almost always the Holy Spirit meets me there and he's like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is what I actually want to show you about what you're trying to think through or experience.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: And that is has been you know the most powerful and humbling experience of trying to write anything.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: Especially when you have like, I know exactly what I'm going to say about this, and then you start to write and you're kind of irritable, and you're like, and then somewhere in the middle, the Holy Spirit's like, no, this is you are wrong.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Wait a minute.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to write this.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, actually, what this is all about.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: And let me show you what what's going on here.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: And isn't that the best thing?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because then you know your words aren't yours, and they actually there's way more weight behind them and importance and exactly what needed to be said.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: So when you went, um, when you were thinking about writing this family devotional Bible type thing, is that actually what you intended to do or what you set out to do, or what was the process behind the book?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I never really thought that I would write a devotional book.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's not it's not something that I had practiced or even really considered, but I had um, you know, looking back now, I can see from the time that I became a Christian, I was writing about spiritual things and trying to process those things and trying to um understand uh who I am in relationship to the God of the universe and who is this God of the universe anyway, and how do all of these things connect?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: So um I've always been a spiritual writer, but I've never um set out to instruct as much or try to guide people into the process.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: So um I was approached about this project to see if I'd be interested in it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: First, I really balked because I'm like, oh, I don't use devotionals usually.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like really intimidated about this idea.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then as I was talking with the publisher about the opportunity, they said, you know, I we want you to write a devotional that you would actually use.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so important, right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta test it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: So that got me very excited about the project and about um writing.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I really wanted people to or families to be able to get into the word with their kids without um without me interpreting the word for them.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's I wanted, yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: I really wanted, especially as I was trying to get my kids uh into scripture.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: I went through a season where we weren't going to church regularly and trying to find a home church was really challenging.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: We had just moved and uh we just took a break for a couple of months, but I had this guilt like, oh my gosh, God, you know, I I don't know if my kids don't know anything right now, they don't know any Bible stories, we're not talking about this right now.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I had all this guilt that was hanging over me.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I like I mentioned to my husband um that I would love to uh I was thinking about starting to read the Bible with our kids, and he's like, Oh, that's a great idea.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: And as soon as it came out of my mouth, I'm like, what am I getting myself into?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: What I just say, darn it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: There's so many crazy things that happened in the Bible, and I've got all of this theological baggage that I don't want to unload on my kids, and what happens when they ask me a question I don't know the answer to?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, all of these things, all these doubts started pouring in.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but when I did actually sit down and start reading the Bible with my kids, they had the most beautiful questions and thoughts and excitement about stories that I didn't expect, and they also happened to not have the same theological baggage that I did.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: So isn't that such a gift?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you're like, oh yeah, the simple theological understanding.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus loves me.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: This I know, and that's what I tell everybody else.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 32:29
  unknown: Oh, that's awesome.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what ages are your kids?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: I have a 12-year-old, 11-year-old, and a seven-year-old.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so fun.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're like right there.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: My last one's eight.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, great, yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Girls, boys.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: What do you got?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: The oldest is a girl, and the others are the other two are boys.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's a really fun age.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_04: Although I've really loved pretty much every stage my kids have been in.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't that's awesome.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, this is fun though, because Lydia, my oldest, is really um well just developing her own thoughts and opinions about everything.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so she has amazing questions when it comes to talking about scripture and God and what some people believe and what other people believe.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, it's challenging, but it's also awesome.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I'm finding it to be a really great age, and I I feel that too, where we hit that sweet spot, that stride, because I think the first part of motherhood, you're just trying to figure out who you are, what kind of mom you want to be, you're dealing with your own.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you have like mom baggage, you're dealing with that, and and then you kind of come up for air, I think, and you you start like your purpose starts, you know, surfacing, and then um they start going to school or you know, different rhythms that help you, or more independent too, where then you're like, Oh, well, I can I can actually do some things I love to do and do motherhood the way I really want to, not just dictated by my children.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's a real sweet, fun time, just you know, right before we get to teenage head, and I'm sure we'll call it another season, but yeah, right.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: We'll see how much I love the next season.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure, yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of lots of prayer, right?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: All the way through.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, how would you say you involved them in the process of it?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Were they, you know, giving you ideas and stuff, or was it more like, hey, you know, let's do this together, and then you see if it works.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: I learned quickly when I started to try some of the devotionals I was working on at the early entries, that I was writing way too long and their attention span was not long enough for what I was trying to accomplish.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that helped a lot.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they they've been, we've been practicing, we're still practicing some of the devotions together, and they've been sometimes they're super engaged, you know, and other times they're like every kid, and they're like, Yeah, mom, this sounds great.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: We're done.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: You know, move on to dessert.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right, exactly.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: On to things.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna ask you, what what's kind of your structure?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: When do you find the time to actually incorporate this in your day?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_04: We do them over dinner.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: So when we're all gathered around the table together, we'll um, especially my youngest is the slowest eater on the planet, so it gives us a lot of time to do some talking while he's finishing his meal.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're just pairing strategically, right?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and it works really well for us to have our um all three of the children participate in reading different exercises and passages of scripture because that gets them really excited and engaged with the stories, and they like to show off that they can read.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, totally, yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, I was just talking, um, well, we had Laura Ritchie on for our Advent Season podcast, and she just came out with you know 25 stories for the Advent season.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: And what I loved was not only were they short and clear and really understandable, and the illustrations were sweet, but they're short enough that my kids can read them too without us all going bonkers.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: That is the goal.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we've had plenty of that.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: I used to homeschool my kids, and so you know, the taking turns, reading aloud is a very important process, I've come to realize.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I have to say, the more manageable the book, the better.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because for everyone's engagement.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: What how did you decide and what did you decide to use as far as I mean, the Bible's pretty big.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So what did you end up incorporating in the book and why did you decide to incorporate that story?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the devotional is 52 entries long.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: So if somebody was really structured and wanted to do it, you know, a devotional a week for a year, you totally could do that.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: And they're amazing.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: And kudos to you.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm like, well, it's been a couple weeks.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: How about we talk about God again?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's awesome.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that the truth?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: But that's great because you can you don't have to like if you miss a week, it's not like you're missing a week.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: You just go back to where you left off, which is great.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: And my feeling too with my kids, I've tried to give myself the freedom and the um the realization that they're each on their own journeys with God.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: And whether we miss a devotional this week or do four in a row isn't going to make or break their faith, and their journeys are going to be unique.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_04: And we need to have that kind of grace for ourselves as parents too.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, we're there to give them that guidance and help them along the way, but they're each going to have their own journeys too.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I think sometimes we really overburden ourselves with the responsibility.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that I love it.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in the process too of writing something for families with the idea that it's really like, you know, five to ten minutes.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not always a Bible study, it's thoughtful conversations, it's phones to the side or away.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just we overcomplicate it and make it over so structured that then we don't do it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: What I really wanted to do with the devotional is that I remember when I came to the Bible, I was really uh so I didn't grow up in the church, and we um um I started dating a guy when I was 15 who was Lutheran, and we're still good friends today, but he um he was like evangelical dating big time, and he's like if we're ever going to get married, you need to become a Christian.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, what?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's precious.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was it's pretty funny.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I really wrestled a lot with scripture, but when I first started to try to read the Bible, I started it like most people would start books and tried to read from the beginning.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, you get one book into the Bible and you start going, what the heck?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I wanted this devotional to help give some context to some of the old testament stories.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um so the uh table of contents goes back and forth between Old Testament stories and then stories about Jesus.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: And the stories, um, I try to position the stories about Jesus alongside stories from the Old Testament that he was referencing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: So that um, you know, when we read the Old Testament, things are weird.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's a culture that existed thousands of years ago, it's so different from what we know.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: And even Jesus's time was really different from what we know.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: But if we could at least be able to see, like, oh, when Jesus talks about the Passover, he's talking about what happened in this story in Exodus.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's so good.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I thought that's been really fun to work through with my kids on on the occasion when we do actually have a couple of devotional nights in a row, and I can say to them, Hey, you remember how we talked about this last night?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, here's what Jesus is talking about tonight.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: So that's so good.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think as adults need that because the way the Bible reads is their limitations back then to write down events and story and everything was so limited, so you know, like prehistoric basically that you know, we don't have the full picture and the full understanding.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so what was kept and what was passed on, yeah, it has a limited scope.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I think, you know, as even as adults, as we're reading the word, we are usually just reading a book at a time and we don't always take the opportunity, even if we're reading the words of Jesus, to go back, oh, what was the story that he was referencing to?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: We have to rely on memory, and I think it's really brilliant um to incorporate it that way, just to gain because it's the whole God story, you know.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, what's yes?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Why did we need Jesus?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: It was because of this.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, that was an amazing conversation I just had with my eight-year-old of like, you know, why did we have to why did Jesus have to come again?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: And why did he have to die on the cross?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was just so great to unpack what God had set up originally, you know, the process of that, but mostly of oh yeah, that was so sweet that he thought of like, well, why did he have to come?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because this way wasn't working, and we need the whole assessment to remind us it didn't work.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: We named Jesus.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love it when the light bulbs go off.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: And oh, it's so special when they say those kinds of things.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: I know my anytime my kids that it just seems to come out of the blue, too, don't you think?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was totally out of the blue.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: I did it, you know, like teeing up with something.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you'd be in the car driving to school, and like, uh, you know, it's like asking the most deep question, like, why do why is there suffering in the world?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: My favorite is at bedtime when they've already stalled past 30 minutes and you know, and you're like, I'm so tired.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, why must you ask this to me right now?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know it's important because that's what the experts say.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you try to dial in, but right, right, right.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, oh, could you just get me in the morning?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it'd be so much easier.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: So, do you incorporate questions?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get ideas as you were talking with your kids?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of question prompts to send us our way and put in the book?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the so the structure of the book is that there's a little bit of an introduction to each of the passages, and then families read the scripture passage together, and then it's immediately followed by three or four or five questions or so to try to get some conversation about what actually happened in the story and what did they think about what just happened in the story.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then I always try to have in the devotional an opportunity to for the kids to ask their own questions.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think in my um, in my experience, um, you know, I since I wasn't raised in a uh church going home, I didn't encounter this, but I know a lot of other of my peers felt like they weren't empowered to ask questions necessarily about the Bible and about God.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um I know I really wanted to be able to encourage families to let your children ask those questions that they have and um to follow them along and see where it leads them.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_04: So that's in there.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, because you know, uh for me, I remember asking my mom in junior high whether or not she believed in God, because I had a a girlfriend who was very evangelical and she was Know their family would pray together at dinner and I'd sit there and I'd like close my eyes and open my eyes and look around.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, wow, everybody's doing something really interesting right now.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what this is, but it's happening.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember asking my mom, you know, do you do you believe in God?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: And she said, I don't know.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: And it was such a gift for me to have my mom admit that she didn't know something.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that she was also on her own journey, even though that's a really basic for us, you know, as a as um moms who have uh you know a Christian faith and are trying to raise our families in a particular way and do believe solidly already in a God, um, to just to have that uh freedom and permission to keep exploring something and know that not everybody has all the answers, you know.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: It was a real gift for me.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: I remember looking back, like, oh, my mom doesn't know the answer to this.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: She's not adamantly opposed, and she's not like hitting me over the head with it.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: She's opening up an opportunity for me to think about this myself.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's such a great way to frame it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm curious now.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Then how do you how did you come to know the Lord?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then how about your mom?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I had a couple of people God placed in my life along the way, I think, uh, that were really influential.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_04: So that girlfriend who was, she actually had condemned me to hell in seventh grade because I didn't know Jesus.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: So we weren't friends for a little while.
• 45:31
  unknown: Some kind of gal.
• 45:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um she's one of my very best friends now.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: I we've been best friends forever.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: But um so there were people who, you know, partnered with me along my along my early journey, you know, in junior high and high school.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then in college, um, I uh I was dating a guy who wasn't a Christian, and I was really like hardcore pursuing faith and God and trying to understand what this all was and why did it matter.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: And so I had these kind of two parallel or not parallel, two departing roads, the the boyfriend who didn't want anything to do with God, and then my relationship with God.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: And uh that was a really instrumental season for me to see um to understand why I needed Jesus in my life, what I needed uh to do in order to get out of that relationship and to move on in my faith.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then I so I accepted Christ into my life in my freshman year of college.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was actually afraid that I was pregnant at the time.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it was the like first realization that I was a a screw up and that I wasn't in control of my life, and that you know I needed God's grace, and it was the first time I understood grace in a way that before that I had this idea about how you could be perfect, and I should be able to achieve this status with God or you know, earn my love and uh earn God's love.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: And wow, it was a real uh awakening for me of like, oh crap.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: I really can't do this on my own.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in Yes, yes, I'm in I'm going to be in big trouble.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: This is a disaster.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and I felt really in that moment, I really did feel rescued.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, even in the not knowing of what my future was going to hold in that moment, I really did feel um like God rescued me from myself, and it was a real awakening uh season for me.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: He also really opened up his word to me during that time, which was really special for me.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh suddenly the things that I had wrestled with became very clear, and I felt this uh like hunger to know more and to read more, and I would the same roommate or the same um friend who had condemned me to hell in seventh grade was now my college roommate.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no kidding.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: And at the time I remember I would read her like passages of scripture at night and be like, listen to this, this is amazing.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: And she'd be like, Yeah, yeah, I've been a Christian my whole life.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_04: I totally already know about all of this.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: So yesterday's news.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, but for you, it was passionate and alive and healing and freedom and hope.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's beautiful.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: What a great story.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for indulging.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: I just was curious because you know, it's just great to share our testimony, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: To encourage others in that and just be reminded.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think it does something in our own spirit to be like, oh yeah, my first it's like telling what our story of falling in love, right?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just like, oh yeah, that's right.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: That was so fun, that was so great.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, even if that's a mundane.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: So you you asked about my mom, and uh I joke about like from the moment I accepted Christ, I'm I was like ecstatic about the Bible.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so everyone in my family got Bibles for Christmas that year.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: And like looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was the worst, like how awful to be on the receiving end of, you know.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: But you had good news to share.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: You just wanted to get it into the right hands.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was totally sincere and excited and thrilled.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: But like I can just picture my at the time, like 14-year-old brother opening up his Christmas present and being like, oh, oh, a Bible?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love it.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so did your mom read hers?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: Was she in change?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so we were super my mom and I are very, very close.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so she's gone on her own journey of faith and exploration, and she's you know, she I think a year and a half or two years after I accepted Christ, my whole family got baptized, which was really that is beautiful.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: What an amazing story.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: So they're they all have their you know different journeys that they've been on and at different places in their faith, but um all share faith now.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's so encouraging, and it just is a reminder because for you, there was lots of people along the path, even your Lutheran boyfriend who really felt the need to convert you.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was just planting those seeds along the way that bore really great fruit.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's awesome.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in this new year, uh, as we're kind of looking ahead and we want to incorporate books like yours in our rhythm and you know, just get our kids in the word more, get ourselves in the word more.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for you, what what has worked for you in years past and what are you excited to incorporate for this coming year that comes to managing your time and incorporating more soul care for yourself and your family?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, for myself, I dedicate an hour or so before everybody else gets up to what I just tell them is my time.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so important.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I got actually got in trouble with my husband the other day for it because he woke up early and he came out to the living room and he's like trying to have a conversation with me, and I'm like, shh, no way! I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm writing, I'm you know, I'm reading.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_04: This is my space right now.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_04: This is it.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's funny.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_04: So whether I'm writing or reading scripture, reading somebody, you know, uh right now I'm reading um, well, they're not the original writings, but the translations of Julian of Norwich.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um her she's like a you know, there's so few women in our you know that would have been writing during, you know, that era.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so that's been really interesting.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I pick that up every morning or every other morning, and then do some writing or just try to carve out a little bit of space for my own thoughts and reflection and prayer and time to um just be by myself and with God, you know.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's so good.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and now that writing is this side job for you, but also part of your day job.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is that feel something still that fuels your soul cup, or um have you kind of discovered something else along the way that you need to incorporate to feel recharged?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, writing is definitely the uh the primary place that I feel that um the type of writing I do for work is very different than the type of writing I feel like I do uh for my creative life.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: Which is which I'm grateful for because the day job doesn't drain that uh energy for me.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but other besides writing though, I love just getting out into the woods or taking a walk and and separating myself from all the technology for a little while.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: And um uh I tried to with my kids in particular too, they're really good at noticing things.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_04: I've noticed, you know, we'll be walking and they they noticed the toad where I would have just kept walking and saw the you know end of the path ahead of us.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: So trying to take their lead on those kinds of things and and take time to pause and notice things and just look around at the world and reflect on it, that's really recharging for me as well.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: Some wonder, right?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: Adding wonder to our life.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for you, what's kind of been like, do you have a set rhythm that you follow on a regular basis to keep all those things, you know, all the balls juggled?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of what's your secret?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's a lot.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's not easy for anybody, but there is a there's so many women um out there doing that right now.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think you know, I try to remind myself, especially in the season that I'm in with my kids right now, they are they're up later, yeah, they're up earlier, yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: They need more conversation time and energy than they've ever needed before.
• 54:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so I have not been writing hardly at all.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I what I try to do is give myself that uh the same kind of grace that I give with their journeys and their spiritual journey to know there are places that I'm needed right now that take priority over some of the things that I might have been doing all of the time before.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so in my general routine, you know, I always wake up at this about the same time every morning and have that hour or so to myself.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: But sometimes it's not writing, sometimes it's reading, and sometimes it's taking care of my email that I've been neglecting or whatever, but it's still carved out.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then um after like the general workday routine, um, I love to cook.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: I find a lot of pleasure in doing those kinds of things that are the hands-on instant gratification, don't require a lot of my brain, you know, do it right.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes, um, yes.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I think, you know, I've found in the season that I'm in right now, having just that uh appreciation for study, rhythm, and habits that um hopefully is life-giving.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if I'm if I'm hanging out too long on my phone or flipping through Facebook and stuff, that's not very life-giving for me, and I should shut it down.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um not to say I don't actually indulge, because seriously, who's I know, right.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: We're all we all do it.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, sometimes we have to for work, so there's that.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_04: I work for a digital marketing agency.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm on Facebook.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, come on, there you go.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's great.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like you've really, you know, purpose to be focused and fully present when you know where you're at.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I try to.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's uh like probably everybody else.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_04: I like I don't one of my great fears like with writing this devotional and talking about it is like I am not super Christian.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: Or like there, I'm not walking around with everything put together.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_04: I am most of the time, you know, frayed at the edges, you know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you're still figuring it out, which is why you wrote something so you could incorporate it into exactly so good.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I'm aspiring to balance and peace and hoping that that happens, but some days things fall apart.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, yeah.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's so good.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: I love your disclaimer.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think we all all need to give it because that is the truth.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: And we just are blessed to get to share some cool things like this along the way and create stuff that benefits others.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really grateful that your book will be benefiting others and um encouraging families to begin the new year in the Word and together and you know, the great thing about the about reading, whether it's this devotional or reading scripture or some other books or whatever, is that you're having conversations with your children about faith and about God.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um I found that you know sometimes our kind our devotional time is so like, yeah, yeah, let's hurry up and get through this and entertain mom because she wrote this book and we should like pay attention to what she wants to do.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_04: And which I totally get.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's like I'm grateful that they're you know entertaining me.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_04: And like, okay, but the next day or five days later, those little small moments we talked about where something is churning away in their brains, and they say or ask a question that they wouldn't have been thinking about if you hadn't taken the time to show them that small thing that's right, sure seemed like a chore in the moment because they didn't want to be sitting at the table anymore.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: But their little minds are still going and they're still, you know, they're looking at the world through a different lens for those reasons.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: So whether it's a finished devotional or it's never finished and you only read five things, who cares?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: You have a conversation.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now, hopefully you leave this conversation with a little bit more clarity as you give your brave yeses and your no's for this next month of February.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: I sure loved beginning this year at a slower pace, taking time to reflect on the power of how word, worship, and write can help me orient myself in all the different things that I want to do, or maybe that I'm afraid of doing, for the year ahead.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_03: I also really enjoyed my conversation with Sarah, and I hope you did too.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you're looking for a resource to help lead your kids better in studying the Bible, again, Katie shared that she and her family are just gonna do it once a week for a season, and maybe as they want more and have capacity for more, they'll they'll do it a couple times a week.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Bite-sized pieces, right?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: A little bit at a time.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're looking for just a way where you and your kids are talking more about the word of God together in a real natural, organic way, I think the Family Devotional Bible is a great resource to begin those conversations.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: 52 options to read through the Word of God and just understand the bigger God story that helped all of our lives and give us perspective, whether we're little people or we're big people.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to say again, I'm so grateful for each person who tunes in.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: It means a lot when you continue to share episodes with your friends and family, because that is how the word gets out about this podcast.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know about you, but there are a lot of podcast options out there, and I only tune into the ones that I hear about from others.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks so much again for sharing and giving us the opportunity to have a lot of fun sharing great stories on the podcast.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: So next week we've kind of queued you up.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: Jessica Turner is gonna be on the podcast, as well as Katie and I having a little bit more conversation about what it looks like to be stretched too thin.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_03: We'll share some of our own perspective and stories, what we think the Word of God has to offer on helping us not be stretched too thin, and then several great practical plans that you could put in action right away.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: So join us next week for that conversation, and until then, be sure to join us on the socials as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.