Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Companion with Sammy Smart and Henley Cox

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Companion with Sammy Smart and Henley Cox · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy. Zeph and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Jamie, wake up, the episode is starting.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: The weather is a thousand degrees fuck me. Okay, oh
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: my god, oh my god. Welcome to the Back Well,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: maybe our most feminist introduction yet.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And I'll go to sleep. Jamie. I don't want to
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: hear from you anymore.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, look is it? I mean this movie, this movie
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: got me in so many ways. I was like, do
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I want to be negged by Jack Quaid? Sometimes there
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: are days that is kind of your kink. There are
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: days where I would accept it. Okay, the feminism continues.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Back Past. My name is Jamie Loftus.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point. But Jamie,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: what the hell is that?
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you. The Bechdel Test is a media
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: metric created by Iconic friend of the show our best
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: friend who iconically has not sued us. Alison Bechdel was
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: originally made as a joke in her wonderful comic series
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Dykes to Watch Out four, and has since been adapted
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: into a more mainstream media metric. There's many versions of
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the test. Here's ours. We require that two characters of
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: a marginalized gender ro pod question Mark speak to each
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: other about something other than a man for two meaningful
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: lines of dialogue. Also, they need names. Shouldn't be hard,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: but people still struggle with it, and I feel like,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: weirdly with the with the fascistic conservative bent we're on,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: it's gonna become a thing that doesn't happen again. They're like, oh,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: we had women talk in movies for a couple of years,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: but thank god it's Oh.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Thank god, that's not happening anymore.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Rip. But here today, we are here to talk about
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: a recent release. We haven't talked about a lot of
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: recent releases this year, and I feel like this is
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: kind of the ideal movie for us to be talking
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: about because we just revisited her. We've revisited I feel
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: like the fembot canon in the last year or so,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: so I feel ready for spoiler alert today's episode Companion.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Maybe if you haven't seen the movie and you want
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: to maybe go watch.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It, go don't listen to this episode because I mean,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: obviously we're about to spoil it. But it's a movie.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: It's a movie that feels like a movie number one,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: number two. It's a movie that the less you know
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: about the twists, I think think the more rewarding the watch.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: So very true, but also I will say I really
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the the rewatch it is It is very fun
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: to kind.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Of rewards on a rewatch. It holds up. Yeah, because
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: some movies, like the story logic completely falls apart once
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: you know the twists and you're like, well, why did
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that character do that thing?
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: But I feel like it it gets kind of better
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: in many ways when you realize why, especially with the
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: character Cat, who are going to be talking about a
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: lot today. It's like, in my first viewing, I was like,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: what is this girl's problem? On the rewatch, You're like,
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I get a team Cat. Okay, So before we talk
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: about the movie more, let's get our wonderful guests into
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: the Damn Chat. Let's do it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: They're the hosts of the podcast too scary, didn't watch?
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It's Henley and Sammy.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: We will wake up. Wake up, Sammy, wake up.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: We are not fembots, We just do yep wow.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: What We should always intro our guests this way. Our
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: next guests are not thempods.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: If they just do a pod, just do a podcast.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: That's all.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: Thank you guys for having us really excited to be
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: here and talking about this movie.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: We are also very excited. Yeah. Well, first, before we
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: get into it, please tell us about the pod. Yeah.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: Our podcast is called Too Scared Didn't Watch as you
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: just heard, and it is Henley and I and our
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: other dear friend Emily talking about horror movies. I love
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: horror movies. Henley and Emily are too scared to watch them,
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: and so I basically recap horror movies to them and
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: to our listeners who are too afraid to watch it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of people who like to read the
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: Wikipedia summaries of horror movies, so you want to be
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: in on the conversation, but maybe you don't want to
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: be seeing those images for yourself.
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: So and we try to just giggle and laugh and
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: have a good time and not feel too too many
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: sad feelings.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: Which is sometimes hard, which is really even even without
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: the visuals.
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, basically for me, it's just an excuse for me
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: to get to hang out with my two best friends
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: and then also get to do a podcast at the
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: same time. But really it's my way of, like secretly
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: just getting to see you still every week, sometimes twice
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: a week.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: That's like, actually all I care about. That's beautiful. And
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: also I've heard about every single horror movie.
• 5:32
  Speaker 6: I mean, my god, there's so many and they'll never end,
• 5:36
  Speaker 6: so we will have like an endless supply to talk about.
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: But as someone who doesn't like horror movies, I can
• 5:42
  Speaker 6: tell you so.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: Much about horror movies.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Yep, well that's great. Well, the nice thing about Companion
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: is that it's not that scary. In fact, maybe not
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: scary at all. Question Mark, there's a few graphic scenes, but.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: The thriller, like I don't know how you would like quantify.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thriller seems closer. There's violence and like blood
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: and so that if you're sensitive to that. Yeah, people
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: have different scary tolerances. We've found that. Yeah, some people
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: just can't handle blood or violence, and some people can't
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: handle jump scares. And whatnot. So yeah, I would say
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: that this movie is not scary, but Henley as the
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: scary cat, what did you think I thought it was?
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't think it was too scary. It does
• 6:29
  Speaker 6: get gory at the end. There's definitely some blood and
• 6:32
  Speaker 6: violence throughout, but at the end that really, you know,
• 6:37
  Speaker 6: doubles down our wonderful genius. Beautiful editor Grace sent me
• 6:43
  Speaker 6: completely unprompted because she knew I was coming on your podcast.
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: She edited Companion for me and took out any scenes
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: that involved violence or like scary noises.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Angel Oh my god, can.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: You believe an angel on this earth? Grace truly an
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: angel on this earth?
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: But I watched the real one, even though she was
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: I really debated, But I felt like if I was
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: gonna talk about this movie in a real way, I
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: really needed to actually see the full thing, the full version.
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: So I'll just show my kids that version that Grace made.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: It won't go to waste. I won't go to waste.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: My four year old will love it.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: It's about a nice lady that goes on vacation.
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Beautiful home in the woods.
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: It's about a robot that's so cool but so anyway,
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: I really enjoyed it. I'm glad I had an excuse
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: to watch it.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Sammy, but what about you? What's your relationship with
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: this movie?
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: I did see this in theaters without knowing anything about it,
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: which I think is probably the best way to have
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: seen it. And I had just heard a lot of
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: people saying, you know that it was really good and
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: you should see it. And so I did not know
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: any of the twists. I had not seen the trailer,
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: and that was a very fun viewing experience. I was very,
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: very surprised, even though I feel like I maybe shouldn't
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: have been as surprised as realist. But but and then, yeah,
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: just rewatched it for this so and you're right, the
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: rewatch is rewarding and fun and I yeah, I was
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: happy to happy to rewatch it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Jamie, what about you?
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: I also saw it in theaters without knowing anything. I
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: don't know how I managed to do that. I was
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: I there were two movies this year that I was
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: told to go in without any context, and it was
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: this in Sinners, and unfortunately someone got to me about
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: the twist and Sinners. I forget who it is, but
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: it's because i've cut them out of my life. I
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: suspect good. But this movie I did manage to go
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: in without any prior knowledge, and the twist got me
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: as well. I didn't see it coming, and I feel
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: like it's a well executed twist because you're like, ohh
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: this people being mean to a random woman scans for
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: me completely tracks. So unfortunately, it's very plausible that that's
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: just would have happened. So I got got by the twist,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I thought that the Rewatch is very rewarding.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: I think like the back half of the movie. I
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: did not like as much on the Rewatch, but I
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: think the front half of the movie is really great.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: It feels it kind of falls apart for me towards
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: the end, but yeah, I'm excited to talk about it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I love I love a fembot movie, and I like that,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: you know, there's still that people are still finding original
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: takes on it that feel very i don't know, unfortunately
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: scarily modern. So I'm excited kit the what about yourself?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I also saw it in theaters. Though I had it,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I would not say spoiled for me, but someone compared
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: it to ex Machina.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Oh that's basically spoiling it jail.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And so I knew something was up going into it.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I knew that there must be some sort of like
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: AI robot or something, and I kind of anticipated the
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: first twist. But then there's a second twist that I
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: didn't see coming, and we'll get to that in the recap.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I still really enjoyed it. I still found
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: it to be a fun, interesting movie that gives us
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: a lot to talk about.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Also a huge year for this specific lead actor, Sophie Thatcher,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: who was in this and Heretic.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Back to Back, which I also saw in theaters, in
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: which I also really liked Heretic.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: I don't remember a damn thing that happened, but I
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: just was like, Oh, it's Hugh Grant being like you
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: can't leave, and I'm like, yeah, I'll go see that.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: It's Hugh Grant doing a similar villain character as his
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: villain character in Paddington Too, and I'm here for it.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Also a big year for Zach Kraiger because he didn't
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: direct or write this movie, but he produced it. And
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: then he also has weapons out or weapons that came
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: out earlier this year. But lots of fun people involved,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm excited to discuss.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get into it.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break first, and we'll come back
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: for the recap.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: And we're back here. We are back again, ready to
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: We're awake.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: We've been woken up.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And let's let's talk about Companion. What happens Caitlyn Caitlyn's
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: famous recap.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, so we open on a dream slash flashback of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Iris played by Sophie Thatcher.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Feels various Stepford Wives reference coded right at the right
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: from the jump.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Indeed, Yes, Also we see her having a like grocery
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: store meet cute with Josh played by Jack Quaid. And
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: then I was reminded of another grocery store meet cute
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: in another horror movie from recent years, Fresh.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: I was thinking the same thing. I didn't even see Fresh,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: and I was thinking that.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: This is the bastionand c.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: So don't meet a man at a grocery store because
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: it's gonna end horribly and he's gonna be a horrible person.
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: I will say, Amana to ask me for my number
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: once at a grocery store, and I said no, I
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: just yeah, like was really really caught off. Garden said no, sorry.
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: I don't do that here, I don't make business and
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: pleasure Like, I'm not here for that.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Also, it's like no one's going to a grocery store
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: to be seen at this time in history.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yes, usually after I've like had a sweaty
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: workout and I don't want to be perceived.
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: Actually, you guys, I just saw a TikTok though of
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: a young man getting stop to go to the grocery
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: store to try to meet someone. I literally just want
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: to talk about this, and I felt for him because, honestly,
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: how do you meet people if you don't want to
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: meet people on apps?
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: That's true?
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: How do you do it? That's true?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: I don't have an answer.
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: But it's not that I feel for these these these
• 13:18
  Speaker 6: ones who are doing it in good faith, not if
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: you're trying to put me in a basement and murder me.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: No, thank you, No.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, true, which I guess in media, we are led
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: to believe that the guys you meet at the grocery
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: store are trying to kill you.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Over and over again. It's a trope at this point.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that?
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: Is that?
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Just demonizing meeting people? I r L I think The
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: problem is ultimately there is no good way to meet
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: people because most people suck. Like people were like, should
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: I do it on the computer in real life? I'm
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: like either one. Ons aren't good either way on bad results.
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: So Iris and Josh meet at the grocery store. He
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: spills oranges all over the place and they're giggling about
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: it in Its so cute, but there's also voiceover from
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Iris that foreshadows that she's going to kill him. Cut
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: to Iris waking up. She and Josh are in his
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: like self driving AI or whatever car on their way
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: to a weekend to get away with Josh's friends at
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: this house on a lake. It's all very rich and
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: expensive and remote, and the house belongs to Serge played
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: by Oops. I forgot to write his name. My god,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I was shocked.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: The guy was sg rupert friend, and I was like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I know this guy. I know this guy, but this
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: is I'm not used to seeing this guy with a
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: very put on Russian accent. Guess who he is. He's
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: mister fucking Wickham from.
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: I looked this up too. As I was watching it,
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: I was going, who is this man? This is not
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: a Russian person. What is this man doing?
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: He's also very obviously not to the point where you're like,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: what is this choice?
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: It's it's not a slapsticky film in that way. It
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: is funny, but it's this feels super slapstick and yeah,
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: mister Wickham. I was shocked too. From Pride and Prejudice, yes.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I just who who could have seen him coming? My
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: my fiance was like, oh, from Wes Anderson. I was like,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: that doesn't resonate. And I was like, oh, mister Wickham.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: What range this actor has?
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: I guess Yeah, everyone from Pride and Prejudice has to
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: come and do something unrecognizable. Tom from Succession, same thing
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: where you're just.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, where did this come from?
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: So true? Well I was. I was thrilled to see him.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: But also that was the third twist of this movie
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: for me, is that that guy is somehow mister Wickham.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Right, So that's Sarah Gay. He is the boyfriend of
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Cat played by Megan Surrey, a friend of Josh's. Also
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: at this house are another couple, Eli played by Harvey
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Gian and Patrick played by Lucas Gage.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: We love Lucas Gauge.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love them, love them both and we love Yeah.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Harvey Gan Yes is one of my face quar icons
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: all around shout out what we do in the shadows.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: So Serge is older and doing a very stereotypical Russian caricature,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: and he's creepy. Iris meanwhile, is nervous about making a
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: good impression in front of all these people, and Josh
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: quite dickishly, is like, calm down, just smile and act happy.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, right away, we're like, oh, he's
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: a prick.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Well, and he's like a very like movie guy kind
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: of prick because he's like, why don't you smile more?
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: And it was at this point in the movie where
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I was like, this was written by a man, because
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: there are there and I say that with love. But
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: sometimes when a man writing a misogynists, they're like, oh,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: the kind of guy that says smile more.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: So everyone gets settled in and they have dinner together.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Patrick recounts the story of how he and Eli met
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: at a Halloween party, which is a great runner. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: then during dinner we see a Chekhov's electric wine bottle opener,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: so don't forget that device. And then after dinner, Iris
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: and Kat have a conversation. Kat does not really like Iris,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: or at least the idea of her, and then we
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: get this sense that maybe Kat and Josh either used
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: to date or maybe they're still into each other, or
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: there's something going on with Kat and we'll talk more
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: This scene plays great on the rewatch.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah it does. Smash cut to Josh and Iris
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: having sex and Josh busting going.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: A great bust we could all agree, a great comic bus.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Very funny cut and maybe never want to have sex again.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And then Josh tells Iris to go to sleep. The
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: next morning, He's like, I'm hungover, Iris, you get a
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: head start and go down to the lake. So she
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: goes to the lake and Saragei shows up and starts
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to grab her and force himself on her, so she
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: stabs him in the neck with a knife that she
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: mysteriously finds in her pocket, and then she goes inside
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: and tells Josh and the others what happened, and then
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Josh once again says Iris go to sleep, and then
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: this time we see her eyes glaze over and she
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: like turns off because twist she's a robot, which everyone
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: already knows except for Iris, They tie her to a
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: chair and discuss what to do. They're gonna call the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: cops and tell the truth that Iris killed Sergey, that
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: she must have glitched and that's why she was violent.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: But first, Josh wants to say goodbye to Iris, so
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: he turns her back on and tells her that she is,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: in fact a robot, specifically a companion robot. That's the
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: name of the movie, or as Josh describes it, she's
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: an emotional support robot. That fucks.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: He's like, I hate the term fuck bot. He's so
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: sensitive and.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Thoughtful, right, here's so much more than that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: Meanwhile, she found out she's a robot truly less than
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: a minute ago, and he's already going, I hate the
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: term fuck bot.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: For you, I would say, you know, in terms of
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: learning your whole life has been a lie. She takes
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: it like quite well. She well, yeah, she's like got it,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: got it? Okay, well what now?
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She does have a hard time believing it at first,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: but he explains how it all works, that he can
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: customize her. However, he wants as far as like intelligence level,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the sound of her voice, her eye color, the language
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: she can speak. He explains that her like, quote unquote,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: memories are fake. It's all just a part of her programming.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: And also part of her programming is that she cannot
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: lie or physically harm humans, animals, or other companions, with
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: some exceptions that we'll discuss in a moment. But we
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: first get a flashback of Iris being delivered to his
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: home by this company called Empathics.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And iowa was I don't know if I was just
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: like not paying close enough attention when I saw it
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: in theaters, but he's listening to the song Iris Rives,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: and you're like, wow, thank you nineties radio for giving
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: me that information.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Right, So my head canon was like, oh fuck, I
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: have to name her. I don't know, oh that song.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I was just listening to Iris good enough, It's great,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: This reminded me of the feeling I got in don't
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: worry Darling when you find out at the end. Sorry
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: for spoilers, we don't worry Darling, but like that same
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: feeling of like, oh God, this is where he lives,
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: and like you're just wheeling her in in this case
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: and he's like clipping its toeenails and it's really fluorescent lighting.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I would say I've only ever seen men do this,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure, just like clipping the nails wherever the fuck.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: They feel like, straight onto the ground.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Do it over a trash cancer doing nasty, nasty business. Yes,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: in any case, she gets delivered. Josh establishes a quote
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: unquote love link with her AKA they meet. Cute scene
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: at the grocery store we saw at the very beginning,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: and we cut back to the present and Iris finally
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: believes Okay, yes I'm a robot. But she's like, well,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: we can still make this work. We can go home
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: and I can cook for you and make love to
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: you and make you so happy. And he's like, m no,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: thank you. And then Kat comes in and she's like, Josh,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: what the hell, what are you waiting for? Shut her down?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: And he's like, you can't say that in front of her.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So they go off to another room and have a
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: little chat, and we learn that they planned this whole thing.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Josh planted the knife on Iris so that she would
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: kill Sergey so that they could steal his money. He
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: has like twelve million dollars in cash in a safe.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: The Sergey character is so all over the place because
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: there's a random throwaway detail about Sergey that comes back
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: later that I feel like doesn't really matter, but yeah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: because they're like, oh, he wasn't that bad of a guy.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, well he's still has a safe that
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: has Stalin's birthday as the could so I would say,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: and the end he's an assaulter. So yes, why add
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: the detail that, like he wasn't actually a bad guy,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Like we only saw him be a bad guy. I
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: didn't need to know that he didn't get rich in
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: the least ethical way possible.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know, right right, because at first they're like
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: he's a mobster and human trafficker, and then.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Later he's just a molestor who's obsessed with Stalin. You're like, okay,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I still don't care that he's dead dead right right?
• 23:31
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: So while Josh and Kat are having this like sidebar
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: in another room, Iris meanwhile, not wanting to be shut off,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: she undoes her restraints, takes Josh's phone that he uses
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: to customize and control her, and escapes into the woods.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So Josh and the others freak out. They're trying to
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: figure out what to do. It turns out the Eli
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and Patrick we're not in on this, like murder plan,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: so they're just kind of now finding out about it.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: And then we.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Also learn that Patrick is also a companion robot. That's
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: the big twist that I didn't see coming, since I
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: already kind of knew something was going on with Iris.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Right, I feel like I don't know for me, the
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: twist that Lucas Gage is a robot, I was like, hmm,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I'm rooting for him. I don't care, Like, yeah, I'm
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: still rooting for Harvey Julian's character because you could never
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: make me hate him, and I think the movie kind
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: of feels that way too. The movie sort of decides like, oh,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: we're not going to turn people on.
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: I think their relationship is supposed to be kind of
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: a foil to the other relationship, the other human robot relationship,
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: because it seems like they actually love each other. Yeah,
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: and yes, like that's possible amongst a human and a robot,
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: you can genuinely love each other, Yeah, which is I
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: think important to establish in this movie, which you might
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: otherwise walk away from thinking, well, I guess like you don't,
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: that doesn't really happen, So for them to show it
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: happening makes it all the more Jack Quit's character all
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: the more like atrocious exactly.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we learn all of that, So the other
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: characters are kind of freaking out, and they take Serge's
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: gun and go into the woods to find Iris, who
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: now knows that she's a robot who has been lied
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: to and manipulated and forced to commit a murder by
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: a man who she thought loved her, and whose programming
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: has been modified because Josh has this hacking modifier device
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that he used to turn up her aggression and self
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: defense response and enabled her to enact violence. And doing
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: all of these modifications is very illegal, so if the
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: cops or empathics the company finds out that they modified her,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: their fucked. So they have to go find Iris, who
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: meanwhile is in the woods with Josh's phone, and she
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: uses it to turn off the voice command that Josh
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: uses to like control her, shut her off by telling
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: her to go to sleep, and she also adjusts her intelligence.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Josh had her intelligence level set at forty percent, and
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: she's like, wow, you bitch, so she boosts it up
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: to one hundred percent. So now she's like super smart,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: and she forms a plan to hijack Josh's car and
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: get herself back home so that she can get cleaned up,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: grab some money, and get away from Josh for good.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: But before she can get to the car, she crosses
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: paths with Eli and Patrick in the woods, who don't
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: spot her right away, but she overhears them talking, and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: she overhears Patrick revealing that he knows he's a robot
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: and that that like Halloween party meet cute thing was
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: just like his fake memory love link thing.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: And then you get one of my favorite lines in
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: the movie, fuck you Dad, I'm in love with a robot. Yes,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: followed like kiss kiss, kiss.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Kiss, and maybe they're about to fuck in the woods
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: question mark. But then they hear Josh's phone vibrate on Iris,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: so they go after her. Eli attacks her, They scuffle,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: and then Iris ends up shooting and killing Eli, and
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: she runs off. Josh hears the gunshot he's nearby, and
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: then he chases her back to the house. She gets
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: in his car and tells it to drive her home
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: after she adjusts her voice to match Josh's voice since
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: it only responds to his voice commands.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I love this. It was just as enjoyable the second
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: time as it was the first of the like just
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: it's like and then randomly act of Quaid's voice exactly mode, yeah, exactly.
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: He's so hard to do convenient for her, But it's
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: a scene and a good twist on like why you
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: can't leave the house, that's all you always have to
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: figure out, why can't you.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Leave the house in the middle of the woods, And
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: this would be one way. It's voice activated car.
• 28:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Sure. So she's driving off and getting away, but the
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: car stops when Josh uses Serge's phone to report the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: vehicle stolen and to call Iris and say, like, we
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: can go back to the way things were. We'll just
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: blame everything on Patrick, and Iris is like, m no,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: thank you, I'm breaking up with you, so he's furious again.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Josh goes back to Patrick in the woods, does a
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: factory reset on him, establishes a love link with Patrick,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and then uses the modify or device so that Patrick
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: will do whatever Josh wants, and he tells Patrick to
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: find Iris and bring her back. Cut back to Iris
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: in the car, a cop pulls up, so she programs
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: herself to speak German, knowing that the cop won't be
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: able to understand her, and knowing that she can't lie.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: This is her little workaround clever intelligence. But then the
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: cop eventually sees the bloody knife in the car and
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: is about to arrest her, but just then Patrick shows
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: up all like terminator mode and he beats the cop
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: to death and abducts Iris and brings her back to
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: the house. She's in sleep mode now because he like
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: got to the phone and like reactivated the voice command.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: And Kat is like, well, fuck this, too many people
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: are dead now. I'm just gonna take my portion of
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: the money and leave. So Josh has Patrick stop Cat,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: which he does by stabbing her because Patrick is like
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent aggression mode.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: This is where the movie loses me, where they just
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: kill off Cat like it seems like because they're like, uh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: because she has to die for the rest of the
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: movie to work. We'll talk about it, but this is
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: on the second viewing. This is where I was like,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: all right, and then she says the weather before she dies,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, all right, women be reporting the weather
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: to jack Quaid, right, So.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Then Josh wakes Iris back up and has a little
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: chat with her over dinner. This is the part that
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: really lost me because I'm like, why are they having
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: this conversation. Wouldn't this scene go differently based on everything
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: that's happened up until this point. I found it a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: little too like movie. But anyway, she's like laying into him.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: She's like, you're pathetic and entitled. So he turns her
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: intelligence down to zero percent, making her like a mindless automaton,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: forces her to burn her arm on the flame of
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: a candle and then to shoot herself in the head,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: thinking that that will like destroy her hard drives so
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: that they can easily just like pin all of these
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: crimes on her for when the two guys from the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Empathics Company show up, played by comedians and friends of
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the show Matt McCarthy and Jabuki Young White, who reveal
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: that they're going to scrub through all of Iris's footage
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: because everything she sees and hears is recorded and stored
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: in her like memory CPU whatever, which is not.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: In her memory torso exactly, it's in her abdomen ax
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: memory torso uh huh.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: And so they're able to reset her and boot her
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: back up. But because she's recorded all this like incriminating footage,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Josh has Patrick kill the two Empathic skies, which he
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: successfully does with Matt McCarthy's character, and then Patrick is
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: about to strangle Djabooki's character Teddy, but Iris shows up
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and manages to help Patrick remember that Josh is not
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: his love, that Eli is and Eli's dead. Oh no,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So Patrick ends his own robot life, and so Iris
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: goes back inside to confront Josh, but not before she
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: has Teddy give her like total autonomy and self control,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: so now she can lie and hurt people and do anything,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: and Josh has no control over her anymore, which makes
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: him furious, and he starts throwing her around very violently,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and they're fighting and he's about to kill her, but
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: then she goes go to sleep Josh and she drills
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the electric wine bottle openers into his skull, killing him.
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: So powerful. I didn't know they were that powerful.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: They can go through a human skull.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: That's nuts, I guess so, And then the movie ends
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: with Iris getting cleaned up. She tears off her like
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: burnt skin on her hand and exposes her like robot
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: arm she takes. She takes the twelve million dollars and
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: drives off in Serge's vintage Mustang, and then as the
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: credits roll, she drives past a man and a woman
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: in a car, and the woman looks just like her
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: but with like different hair, implying that she's also a robot.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: So Iris waves her like exposed metal robot hand at
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: her to communicate like, hey, you're a robot too, So
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: get the fuck out of there, lady, get away from
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: that man. The end y.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, let's take another quick break and we'll be
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: right back to talk about companion.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: We'll go to sleep.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: We'll go to everyone go to sleep, and we're back.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Everyone.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Wake up, everyone, wake up. It's beautiful outside. Let's get
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: into the discussion. Henley Samby, what stands out to you?
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Feel free to kick it off?
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: Well, I feel like I was thinking two things when
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: we were your recap. Well, overall, it's just fun. It's
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: like a fun movie to watch. I had a good time.
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: It's a yeah. If I'm gonna like critique anything, maybe
• 35:07
  Speaker 6: it's just that I wish it had gone deeper into
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: some of the themes that was trying to explore. For me,
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: the latter half of the movie makes a lot more
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: sense if we see jack Quaid's evolution into like becoming
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: a sociopath more clearly. When she calls him and breaks
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: up with him in the car. She uses all the
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: classic breakup lines. She's like, it's not you, it's me.
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: She says all the classic things, and he's like, are
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: you breaking up with me? And you see in his
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: face like I think, anyway, something shift like this is
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: she has activated a deep wound, some kind of dejection
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: that's happened here. And literally it's like a light switch
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden, he's like a super villain, which
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: he really wasn't before in the movie. And I think
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: that that shift could have been, like I don't know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: we could have just had a little bit more about
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: him to really believe that part of it, because yeah,
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: when they sit down to dinner and he's like sitting
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: at the head of the table with like a goblet
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: of red wine and he's like, wake up, virus.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: I'm like, who are you right?
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: You're like I thought you were a coward, And yeah,
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: like makes sense in a satirical way of like that
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: shift being that's the moment to completely change personality, like
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: I've been rejected, now I must kill you and make
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: you suffer. But the movie's not super satirical in that way,
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: and so yeah, it does feel a little jarring.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I agree, where.
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: Especially when he's yeah, sadistically torturing her and making her
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: feel pain is right?
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, where is this?
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: Where did this come from?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: It's a bit jarring. But for me, I think the
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: movie does a pretty good job of characterizing an awful man,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: but have like showing a more like maybe modern and
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: like almost nuanced version of misogyny versus like what we've
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: seen in the past with a lot of movies and
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: something that we talk about all the time on this podcast,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: like the patriarchy the man type of character.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Right see, I think this is the new patriarchy the
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: guy character. I think we're going to be seeing a
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: lot of this guy. I feel like the first time
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: I clocked this variation of patriarchy the guy was in
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: Promising Young Woman, the Ba Burnham character.
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: I was gonna say, Bo Burnham, I had that thought too.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: And we've been seeing a lot of this guy. And
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: actually specifically Jack Quaid has played this guy more than once. Yes,
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: And he also plays this guy in five Cream in
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: my old scream Scream Crying where it's spoiler alert, he's
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: one of the ghost faces where and he's he's the nice,
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: supportive boyfriend. Guess I did not get it. Yes, he's
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: the five cream ghost face. So this is like a
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: type of character who I feel like I've seen many
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: times at this point, and I wanted more of it
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: because I agree with with you Henley that like it
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: felt very abrupt, especially with and I feel like so
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: much of the stuff that I was I don't know.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't think any of this on the first time
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: I watched this because it's a movie to watch on
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: a Friday night, like, don't overthink it, but also that's
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: what we're here to do. So but I feel like
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: a lot of the issues I was having in the
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: back half could have been solved if like Kat remained
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: a relevant character, because I feel like so much is
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: left on the table. And when he goes super villain mode,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: it did not scan for me because he cared about Kat,
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: he had a crush on her, they'd been friends for
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: a long time. So when the Jack Quad character does
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: not react to that at all, that was when I
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, he is a patriarchy the guy character,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: because that's like a completely irrational way, even if he's
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: a misogynist, which he is, it just like his behavior
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: in like the last half hour just like kind of
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: didn't scan for me at all, because he's ultimately a
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: coward and I felt like he was not going he
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: was not choosing cowardly things in the last half hour,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: and his crush died in front of him.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: Because of him.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: It was his fault. Like, I don't know, I guess
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I wanted to see him kind of crash out, and
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: you can crash out in a misogynist way, We've all
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: seen it, but like I just sort of, I guess,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: was wondering why there wasn't a reaction to that. She
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: just felt so like, oh, yeah, we have to get
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: rid of this character or the movie can't end. But
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: it was like there's so much left on the table
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: with her. That conversation between her and Iris at the
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: beginning is so cool to rewatch because it's like kat
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: is feeling frustrated because she's being treated like a robot.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: And then there was like a moment in that conversation
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: where she's like, well, look who I'm talking to. I'm
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: talking to a fucking robot about misogyny. Great, and at
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: that we were like, Okay, let's explore that more. Yeah,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: But once the twist happens. I feel like kat Her
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: like significance in the plot drops off significantly to the
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: point where they're like, and then Lucas Gage kills her
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: question mark, Like, it just felt like her character was
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I yeah, on this watch, I was like,
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: why did they make those choices about her?
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I agree with all of that. I guess my
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: thing is like, and yes, this is a version of
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: the like patriarchy the guy character with what we see
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: in Josh, and then we get like one of the
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: more classic versions of that character with Sergei, who is like,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, a rapist, but with I don't know, with Josh. Yeah,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: we're seeing this trope of like this version of the
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: patriarchy the guy character in more recent movies. But I
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: still think it's a kind of a refreshing alternative to
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: the more cartoonish version that we've seen in whatever years past.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: I guess it's like his misogyny isn't quite so mask off.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: It's more covert, the way that misogyny is more covert
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: these days. It's still very present, but I feel like
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: misogynists have gotten better at masking it a little bit more,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: And I feel like Josh's character is like for a
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: heightened thriller comedy. His character is like a decent representation
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: of that. Yeah, still not perfect, but like I think
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's handled like decently well in this movie.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he reminds me.
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: I feel like it's almost stripped straight from online culture,
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: this version of misogyny in manhood, because I don't know
• 41:46
  Speaker 6: for me anyway, I feel like I see a lot
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: of content about people being like the men who have
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: done me the dirtiest in Brooklyn are all reading bell Hooks.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all right.
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: You know, they're performative for mean some version of feminism
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: that whether they know it or not, they don't actually
• 42:07
  Speaker 6: mean and is for selfish purposes. And who knows if
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: they actually you know, read a single line of Bellhooks
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: in reality, but they're carrying it around with them at
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: the subway, so trying to signal to everyone that they're
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: a good person or a good guy. It's like those
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: the signals have changed. Yeah, and that's what we're seeing
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: a little bit here with Jack Quaid.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Right, Definitely, he's really I mean, he's really good at
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: playing this part. Yeah, and yeah, like you're totally right,
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Kaitlin that like with Sergei, we sort of get the
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: for some reason via mister Wickham, another famously shitty guy.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So maybe that's the through line there, but that like
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: we're seeing different kinds of guys who suck. I guess
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, maybe it's a personal preference thing, but
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: it's like I just wanted something new because I was like, okay,
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: I Bo Burnham, I got got by bo Burnham, but
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: that was like five years ago. I gotta give me
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: a new flavor on this guy.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing is with Josh is that I don't
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: think the intention of the movie is that you get
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: got by him, because his misogyny is pretty on display.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: It's maybe more subtle than the Sergae character. But that
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: scene where they arrive at the house and Iris is
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: expressing her insecurities about like, oh my gosh, what if
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I embarrass myself in front of your friends or say
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: something stupid? And then he's like, shut up, oh my god,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: you're just now bringing this up twenty feet from the door.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Just be cool, Chill the fuck out.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: He's not using quite that language, but he's saying like
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: it's fine, just act happy in smile and then obviously
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: his misogyny runs way deeper than that, because I mean,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: he's a man who wants a romantic partner who he
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: can control, and he has her intelligence level set to
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: a small fraction of what like, he wants someone who
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: he can manipulate.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: And maybe what I'm getting at is, like, I guess
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: what I part of because the performative guy thing is
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: is everywhere in the real world right now. I feel
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: like there's a lot of guys that like, saw me
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: too happen ten years ago. They're like, Okay, I have
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: to adjust the language to be a dickhead now, but
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of them are not aware
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: they're doing it, And so I feel like it starts
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: with Jack Wade being an asshole, but like an asshole
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: who still fundamentally thinks he's a good guy. And then
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: at the end he's acting so villainous, like not flinching
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: when his dear friends are being stabbed by robots in
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: front of him, that you're that it felt like it
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: kind of like lost sight of the kind of shitty
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: guy I thought he was.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: That's true, right, because also, yeah, his friend Eli dies,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: his friend slash crush Cat dies, and he's like, well,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: moving on, I need that twelve million dollars.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 5: I definitely think the scariest part of the movie is
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: the scene with Sergey where he's just like slowly like
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: pushing the boundary and like asking her to put on
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: sunblock for him, and like that part was so effectively upsetting,
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: and I think that's probably like the part of the
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: movie where I was the most like scared too.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's also manipulating her because he says something like,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: oh do you like this nice house?
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Do you like this delicious food that I've provided? Are
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: you comfortable?
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: If so, I did that, and therefore you owe me something.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: You owe me your presence and your company, so stay
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: here with me, and blah blah blah. And then he
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: gets more overtly grabby and a salty But yeah, he's
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: trying to manipulate her up until that point and because
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: of her program, but also there's like a societal mirror
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: of that, of like women being socialized to be polite
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: and accommodating. She's like, yeah, you're right, you did invite
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: me here, and I am enjoying the nice house, so.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Which becomes even like wilder when it's like, oh, this
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: is also how she's been programmed, likely by men, to
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: behave In response to something like that, I wanted more
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: of it, where she again with I'm gonna just like
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: fixate on the fact that I wish that she and
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Kat had like had a more because Kat is coming
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: from such an interesting place where she is being treated
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: like shit by mister Wickham. Also she is frustrated, like
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: it seems like she is, like it's one of those
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: choices where there's two women in this movie and they
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: hate each other for reasons unclear, probably related to a guy. Like, Okay,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: we've seen that a million times, but when you rewatch it,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: you're like, no, she hates like she doesn't trust robots,
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: which I think is a very reasonable place to be
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: coming from. And I guess I wish that they got
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: into that a little bit more outside of the idea
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: of a romantic relationship, because I don't think that it is. Again,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: it's tricky because I love fembot movies and I'm always
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: rooting for the fembot to kill everyone, but also, you know,
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I'm in real life, I'm really not rooting for the
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: robots to kill anybody. I actually like really don't want
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: them to. Yeah, and I'm afraid of them, and so
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: I feel like there is like a I don't know.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I was really kind of connecting with kat on this
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: viewing where you're like, well, would I be nice to
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: a robot? I don't know.
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: Also, if you are like a single woman in the world,
• 47:43
  Speaker 6: and sexual politics is already complicated enough, the like the
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: playing field is already imbalanced enough, and then you throw
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: in fucking fembots into the equation. So like, now I've
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: got to compete with robot who's literally designed by men
• 47:59
  Speaker 6: to be like perfect, quote unquote perfect and do whatever
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: they want. And the version that they've designed is so
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: demeaning actually at the end of the day and depressing
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: because literally the only point of her existing is to
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: serve Josh. I think that also, as like a human woman,
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: you would be thinking, how how am I to live
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: in this world where, right, the man gets to have
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: a fembot and everyone thinks it's okay, that's another thing, Right,
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: this is clearly normalized in this world. No one gives
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: a shit. Everyone's like, that's cool, you get a fembot.
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: You do you? You would think there'd be some level
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: of shaming some level of like you can't even bag
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: a human woman, you have to get a robot. No,
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: they don't care. They don't care about that at all.
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: And as a human woman, that would bother me.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And the word she uses is you make me
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: feel so replaceable, and it is like, yeah, depressing thought
• 48:52
  Speaker 5: to think of men being like, oh yeah, let's get
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: rid of the human aspect and just make a little.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Little fuck bot, an automaton who's who exists only to
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: serve me and accommodate me, and who the men have
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: to put in no emotional effort to care for them,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: because the men can just be like go to sleep.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Because there's also that scene like right after they have
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: sex and he busts, she's like trying to kind of
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: connect with connect with him emotionally and has like after
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: care and pillow talk and then he's just like go
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: to sleep and.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Like and I feel like the movie plays on that
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: really well of like on the rewatcher, like, oh, I
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: just thought he treats women poorly, but he he's treating
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: women poorly in a way I didn't even understand. And
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: that's another cool I don't know conversation where it's like
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: that to some extent is happening, like you can have
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: an AI girl friend now, and you know whatever. I
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: don't really even want to wait into the shallow end
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: of that discussion, but but I feel like, in general,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: so much of why these performative men exist, I feel
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: like is because they're like, Okay, now, I understand that
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: in order to have access to women at all, I
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: need to treat them with the most basic veneer of respect.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: But when you put the fuck bot into the mix,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: that goes away, Like they're like, I can treat this
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: robot however I want. There is no like if you
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: are a piece of shit. You're like, there is no
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: advantage to treating any woman with a measure of respect
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: because I can just have my fuck bought at home.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Who cares.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: And we learn later in the movie from Matt McCarthy's
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: character that some men are using their robot companion women
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: as target practice, or that they chain them up in
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: the basements and torture them.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: It's like you're like, yeah, yeah, I see that.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so I agree that, Like the conversation that
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Kat has with Iris really rewards on the rewatch because
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: at first you think cats maybe gel of Iris because
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: she and Josh either used to have a thing or
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: that she has feelings for him. And then when she
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: says that Iris makes her feel replaceable, that implies, Oh,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Kat and Josh used to date, and then he broke
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: up with her in favor of dating Iris. That's what
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: you interpret from the first watch. From the second watch,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: you're like, Oh, Cat is resentful of this world where
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: men have these fuck bots that exist to serve their
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: every physical and emotional and housekeeping need. Also, it seems
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: like she does like the cooking and cleaning for Josh
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: and all that, and so that would make any human
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: woman feel yeah, like replaceable, inadequate, et cetera. But I
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: think that Cat's anger is a bit misplaced. Sure, sure,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: like she doesn't necessarily want to hang out with a
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: robot lady, But I don't understand why she's not more
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: upset with Josh or men like Josh who would choose
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: a robot over a human woman, or like whatever the
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: company that's creating these fembots. So I wish that had
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: gone like, I don't know, I wish that it had
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: been handled differently. And I think if it was not
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: written by a man, if this movie was written by
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: a woman, her attitude would have, like her anger would
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: have been maybe directed elsewhere.
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: The other part of that dynamic is how having a
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: fuck bot would affect a man. This is another part
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: of like patriarchy harms everyone. Which is sure, it sounds
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: nice having a relationship that is so deeply convenient and
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: frictionless and easy and they do everything you want. However,
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: Josh Quaid like Josh Quaid, jack Quaid, Josh quad, Josh Quaite, sure,
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: that's his name.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: Now he kind of.
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: Hates her, Like even from the beginning, he doesn't like her.
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: And it's because she's just him. It's she's just a
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: version of him.
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's my child trying to open the door.
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: And she's like she's to Like basically he's seen himself
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: in her.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, how could he not. All that's my.
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: Husband trying to get my four year old to not
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: burst in here because he really wants to talk about
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: fembots if we need.
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: To take Yeah, he watched the edited version. He's a
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: huge fan.
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: He has so much to say, so much on his mind.
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: Sorry, that point kind of interrupted, but basically, like he
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: hates her, which we see by the end of the film.
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: He means he's torturing her by the end because he
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: must be harboring some hate for her and is inside
• 53:47
  Speaker 6: of himself because he doesn't act. This is not what
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: anyone wants. No one acts. This is not real connection,
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: This is not real. This is not life affirming. This
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: is not making us better people. This is not like
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: adding to like how dynamic and beautiful life can be.
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: This is really tiny. Is a way to live your
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: life in the.
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: Tiniest little the safeness, a little flattening it. Yeah, and he.
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: On some level must know that and hate that about himself,
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: and it just sucks for everyone.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, basically totally.
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: That's a really good point. Yeah that like he and
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: against Like, I wish that we had seen that a
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: little more of like this comes from a place of
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: insecurity and self hatred, and that is like a useful
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: thing to see and understand in men.
• 54:34
  Speaker 7: M m.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it all feels like all of the opportunities and
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: like everything is there and you can see it, but
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: the way it comes together just feels like there's like
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: a lot left on the table because I'm not even
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: like I wouldn't even really care that Kat is rude
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: to Iris at the beginning if that pays off in
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: some way, but it doesn't change, like she's just like
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: fuck her, I hate her, even when she's like she's
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: seeing these like shades of gray in her friend Josh
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Quaid that and she doesn't really react to it either.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: I was like, so, are we just to believe that
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: every person in this movie except sort of Harvey Julian
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: is a tremendous piece of shit, Like I'm on board
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: for that, but I need to understand, like why they're
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: not reacting to certain things. I don't know. I mean,
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: I do, like I love I love a tech thriller,
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: and I just I feel like, with especially with how
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: people are feeling about AI at this specific moment, it
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: only kind of went like surface level, where yeah, there's
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: so many things to be scared of both.
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, it does feel like that first act is
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: like was the impetus of the idea, and they're like, Oh,
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: this is gonna be so good. It's gonna be so good.
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: Sold it on that, and then yeah, like we're like, oh, yeah,
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: we have to write the rest of it, Okay, like
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: let's build that in. So I agree, it does kind
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: of it's super satisfying in the first third or first
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: half even and then yeah, a lot of those threads
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: get dropped or just kind of watered down. Yeah, so
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: it's it's it's a fun movie that doesn't like, doesn't
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: stick with me as much as I would like it too,
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: because I'm just yeah, didn't quite get all the way there.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: But here's a question, can I even think off the
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: top of their head of a fembot movie that was
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: like made by a woman. Not to put anyone in
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: particular on blast, but like, I feel like most of
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: these movies are made by men. Uh for going to
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Blade Runner, We're going to ex Makana. These are movies I.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Like, Stepford Wives, step.
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: Ford Wives, I'm pretty Sworld west World, Like, these are
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: movies that I'm pretty sure are made overwhelmingly by men.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: And and what I mean, I know why, but like
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: but but maybe maybe don't. I don't know. I don't
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: have much, I have no power. But it's just like
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: I love a fembot movie, but I usually have some
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: kind of issue with it that is similar to this,
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: that just feels like maybe if a single woman, the
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: movie doesn't even have to be good. Women's wrongs as well,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: but like I just feel like there's always like there's
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: always something that just feels like weirdly and very obviously
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: left on the table. And if you're choosing to make
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: a fembot movie, you're walking into a feminist discussion. Like
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: if you didn't want that, then you shouldn't have made
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: a fembot movie. Like there is going to be a
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: discussion around genter with this. But it is just like this,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is like not a call out to
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: this movie in particular, but just as I was like
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: going through the other fembo oh and we just covered
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: her another like malo to her movie. Who made three again?
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: Oh that's a man, I'm pretty sure.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure man.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: And look at God. Yes, written by a woman, So
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: that's good.
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: Written by Aquila Cooper, who also co wrote Malignant. Heallo.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: So I mean like it does, but I mean I
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: don't know, just like another O Tour movie about a
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: fembought by a guy. I'm like, maybe next time, let's
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: let's try something.
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: Different, someone else do it. I love the version of
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: this movie. If okay, let's take this movie, we make
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: it twenty minutes long.
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: All right, all right, everything that happened.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: Twenty minutes then she because it's like, in a way,
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: a coming of age film for a robot. Right, that's
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: really interesting too, her character development. She's wearing like nineteen
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: sixties clothes in the beginning that she's been given by empathics.
• 58:49
  Speaker 6: By the end, she's got her robot arm revealed. She's
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: wearing leather and jeans, and she's like about to ride
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: off into the distance. So okay, so let's say that
• 58:57
  Speaker 6: happens twenty minutes in and then it's like, what does
• 59:00
  Speaker 6: this bitch do? You know?
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: Like what happens next? Does she run for office?
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: What is what's happening?
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: Is she gathering all the other robots together and making
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: a robot army for an uprising? Is she doing a
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: robot uprising? Is she just having a small cottage core
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: life like experiencing you know, maybe like spelunking, going into
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: you know, doing some like fun whimsical things in nature.
• 59:26
  Speaker 6: I don't know, but it's kind of fun to think
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: about that version of this story too.
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah, this that like brings up another question. I know
• 59:34
  Speaker 5: it's like silly in a joke of the robot uprising,
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: but her scenes with the Lucas Gauge character. I feel
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: like that I was also having not really questions about
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: but maybe like could there have been more there? I
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: actually like can't remember now even anything they will said
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: to each other.
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: It's implying that they have consciousness because he can feel.
• 59:59
  Speaker 6: He just GRIBs love and Patrick the robot describes his
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: love for Eli in very poetic, beautiful human terms, like
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: it seems like this is a robot instilled with consciousness,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: which is a whole other conversation we could be having
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: because it seems pretty obvious these robots have consciousness and
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: for these humans who are ignoring that, I'm like, right,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: would it be that easy to ignore someone who seems
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: like a feeling, thinking person and treat them that way?
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wrote this down and then was like this
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: is out of my pay grade, but like I just
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: forne Turing Test question mark because theoretically, okay, like if
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: it's a reveal that Lucas Gauges a robot and some
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: people don't know that Lucas Gauge is a robot unless
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: they're told, then like he's clearing the Turing test. If
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: you're clearing the Turing test you have consciousness, and if
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: you have consciousness, theoretically there would be like I don't.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 8: Know, like there are implications for that, right, Like yeah,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 8: like you're saying like people would be behaving a little
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 8: differently or there would be some conversation around like they
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 8: meant that there is kind of like a YadA YadA
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 8: like Empathics we'll get in trouble, but it's like not
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 8: clear if it's like I don't know, right.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: There's like legal limits to what their intelligence can be
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: or something like maybe they had put some sort of
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: limits on or intended to put limits on them, and yeah,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I mean I guess, yeah, getting into
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: the legality of it is maybe not did.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: You have robot court drama that the movie touches on
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: this very briefly without being specific at all, but it's
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: this flashback scene where Iris is like being delivered to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Josh's apartment and there are a couple Empathics employees to
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: like facilitate that.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: And one of them is kind of going through a
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: few different logistical things with Josh and he says like
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: there are about a billion government regulations here, so obviously
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: we can't like they can't have super strengths or super intelligence.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: So even if you set it to one hundred percent intelligence,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: that would be the equivalent of an IVY League grad,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: which doesn't necessarily even imply intelligence. That just implies that
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: your parents are well connected and have a lot of money.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: But it's not as though they are one hundred percent capacity,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: like they have these regulations that limit the intelligence and
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: limit the strength, but also like additional limitations as far
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: as like they have no capacity to lie, they have
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: no capacity to be violent unless their behavior has been
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: like hacked and modified with these like hacking devices.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: I'm fine with the hacking device. I'm like a vague
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: hacking device. Why not a hacking stick, the hacks the
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: hack stick? Uh, the mystery bock? Sure?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Why not?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 6: And then it's implied that happens all the time when
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 6: they're when your friends are wheeling them out and they're like, oh,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: she's definitely modded, like of course she was modded, and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: they're so casual about it, like it happens all the time.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: This happens all the time. This is not the first
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: robot murder and it won't be the last. Yeah, I
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: don't know, but yes, speaking to like her Iris's relationship
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: with Lucas Gage. Again, I'm like, this to me does
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: not feel like a movie where everyone has to die
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: except for Iris, Like it felt bizarre to me that
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: people kept dying after I felt like it made sense.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: I guess where like cat dying felt like I don't know,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: killer and like sort of similar to Lucas Gage, where
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, now we're getting into like robots suicidality,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Like does that mean Lucas Gage he's gonna see Hervey
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: Julian in heaven? Does he believe in heaven? Does he
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: believe in God? I don't know why. I don't know.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: I guess that that is like supposed to illustrate the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: point that like he does have consciousness and he can
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: experience such tragic loss that he could experience suicidality. But
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: I'm also like, I'm also fine with Iris and Lucas
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: Gage robot going on a road trip.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: That's what I was kind of rooting for. I think
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: that that's what I wanted. As we're talking about it,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: I'm thinking, yeah, they can, they can both ride off
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: into the sunset, right, But.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: That's not what happened. That's no one I kind of forgot,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: Like on the rewearch, I was like, what does happen
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: to the other robot?
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh, okay, that Like his death
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: scene felt so like to me tacked on or like, oh,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: we just need to get rid of him. So he
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: does that, but I don't.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: Think you need to get rid of him, Like I
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: think I would have liked to see either human woman
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: and fembot unionized or robot and robot unionized.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a teamy nappy would have been like.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: That would have been fun.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: I agree, speaking to the different times where like the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: movies starts to kind of say something, but like those
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: threads unravel or doesn't like stick the landing in a
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: satisfying way. There's that monologue or I guess it's a
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: dialogue between Josh and Iris at the dinner table at
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: the end where Josh is describing how, oh, the world
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: is just a big game and it's rigged against people
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: like me, which feels like commentary on Cisheit white men
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: feeling as though.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, I there's a war on everyone's against me.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because he says then like I'm a good guy,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I'm nice, I'm decent in the world. He's implying like
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the world owes him things just because he's a quote
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: unquote nice guy, which of course he's not, but he
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: thinks that about himself, so he feels entitled to you know,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: women and money and blah blah blah, and Iris then
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: respond with like, yeah, we all know, how much do
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: you think the universe owes you? But you know, you're
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: an entitled prick who always needs to be in control.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: And then she also makes a dig about his penis size,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: which is something that we've talked about on the podcast before,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: which like, yeah, that's probably gonna hurt a lot of
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: people's feelings if their penis size is insulted. But there's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: like inherent problematic things with just using that as an
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: insult period. But it just felt like another example that
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: whole dialogue of like there's commentary starting to be made,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: but then it kind of tapers off into nothing.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: Well, but it's like, how much of that doesn't mean
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: If that is immediately followed by us seeing a woman
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: shoot herself in the head, you know, like how like,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever, I'm fine if if the movie, if
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the Fembot movie is like we have nothing to say
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: about women, that's a choice. But it it's like, I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: feel like this movie says something and then shows you
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: something else.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: I wasn't really buying the feminist empowerment speech at the table.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: I wasn't feeling it right.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 6: I was thinking that scene at the table. Really, I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: was feeling so many feelings. And one of the first
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: feelings was him sitting like so smug with his fucking
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 6: goblet of wine.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Like truly, he might as well have been patting a
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: cat or something.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 6: Truly is so villainous, so evil. And the only thing
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: I could think was he has failed upwards, like he
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: has totally gotten to this point only because he's made
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: one mistake after another mistake after another mistake after another mistake,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: constantly getting things wrong, never judging the scenario correctly. Everyone
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: around him has died, Everything has gone to shit. And
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: look at the audacity. Look at the audacity of this
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 6: man who says, now now's my time to be like
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: super confident. And it's like that to me. Also, oh
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 6: just makes my like I get goosebumps, because I do
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: feel like I have worked with some men who are
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 6: like that, and it exist in the world, and it's
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 6: remarkable how the human brain can really trick you into anything.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, right.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: Like you said, that happens in real life all the time,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: men feeling upwards and then being like, well, I've moved upwards.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: I get my accomplishment.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: Look at the proof of my success.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: I've killed everyone else, so I must deserve this, So
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: I must be awesome, and this confidence is deserved. Yep,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Ultimately, I think my takeaway from this
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: movie is that I want women to make fembot movies
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: going forward. Nothing against I mean like it's nothing against
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: this filmmaker or anything like that, but just like, leave
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: the fembots to the girls. I think men have really
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: had their say, yeah, and they've had plenty of opportunities
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: to make a comment. And it does feel like this
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: movie is trying to say something about it, but it
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: just like doesn't quite come together. Also, yeah, again, and
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: just like going back to just like time warn horror
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: tropes where this movie feels more like a thriller movie
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: than a horror movie. Anyways, I don't think everyone needs
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: to die. But by the end of the movie, basically
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: Iris is the final girl and the gays have been buried.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: Every the people of color all dead, so is Jack
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: quite Like everyone's dead, But it just didn't feel like
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: that was needed. I don't know.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it focused more on cranking up the violence and deaths.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: Than like the actual story.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah itself.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: That said, it's like again very fun, a fun surprise,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: but then yeah, when you really dig into it, there's
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: less than.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: You might then you wanted. Yeah, something that bumped from
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: me was the violence toward the very end, where where
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Josh is like very violently throwing Iris around. It felt
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: like I already know he's a bad guy. Like why
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: it felt like kind of reveling in a man being
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: horribly violent toward a woman.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it would have been nice if they added some
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: like a twist on that because she's theoretically like made
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: of metal, so him like trying to hurt her in
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: that way and maybe not being able to because she's
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: much heavier or something. I don't know, Like I kind
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: of was expecting something a little different in that scene
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: and then no, it was just him just like being
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 5: violent towards her in a way that was.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: Hard to watch.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: It was really hard to watch, right because at this.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: Point Iris has total autonomy. This is after the teddy
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Empathics guy like gave her autonomy.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: It's diocex djabuki.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: In theory, she probably would be stronger and sturdier, right
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: than a human person. Yeah, why doesn't she go into
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: like again terminator mode and like rip him in half?
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah? True, we've seen Lucas Gage do it, and so
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: it does feel like it kind of wanted that scene
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: to be in there where he realizes he's not stronger
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: than her.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe Empathics is really sexist and they make the like
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: male coded robots out of like titanium and then they
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: make the like women ones out of like aluminum. Help.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I didn't. I guess I didn't even think
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: about that. But there's like, I mean, just going back
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: into horror trumps we've talked about since the show started.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: Of like, I am both very pro corkscrew to the
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: head the very creative, haven't seen that one before? And
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: also is it not a household object where as Lucas
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: Gage robot it has a fucking glock. Like the whole time,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: everyone has a gun except our final girl, who is
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: still using the household object to get the final kill.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: She does wheeld the gun for a minute and then
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: shoot at Josh. But yeah, it gets dropped pretty shortly
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: after that.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I guess I appreciate also the for having
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: a quote unquote buck bought in the movie not having
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: like a very graphic sex scene. Yeah, is I think
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 5: the right right choice. Like all of the sex scenes
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: are either off camera and you basically only hear Jack
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: Quaid like.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Busting the bus.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: That's true, that's true.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: Or getting close ups of him. You never see any
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: really any overly sexualized shots of Sophie thatcher at all.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: So I appreciate that decision very true.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that that is kind of like a
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: hallmark of the fembot. They're like, she's not a per
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: and so look away to look at.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Her like perfect titties.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the factory made booze and then she like grabs them.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: She's like, wait are these good? Yeah, that's true. That
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: is true. That shows that shows some restraint and I
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: respect them straight.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: But also the bar is in hell.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: Just like wow for making a movie about women, Like
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: she didn't grab her titties?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Ally ally, Yeah, does anyone have anything else they want
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: to talk about?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: This is not really here nor there, but I did
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: see in the trivia and just wanted to say it
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 5: that Sophie Thatcher can cry from one eye, from each
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: of her eyes on command, which I just that happens
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: in Babylon and I thought, you know that that well,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: that could never happen in real life. And apparently Sophy Thatcher.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: Can do it.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: So just she can do like one I at a time,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: and like, yeah, choose, which I.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: Apparently, I mean according to IMDb trivia, so it's you know,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 5: not one hundred percent reliable, but I'm going to.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: Actually I'm going to say, yes, yeah, talent. She rocks.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: To me, she's actually yeah robot Yeah no, no, no,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: but wow, that's that is quite something.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it just seemed important to share.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: I'm excited to see more Sophie Thatcher. I'm like, yeah,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: she's also just for what it's worth, like her performance,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: I feel like is like the movie doesn't work if
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: she's not convincingly a robot and still very sympathetic, and
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: she she kills it.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: She's great.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: I have a friend who just worked with her on
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: a on a movie and also says that she is wonderful,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: So that's always nice to hear too.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah, I guess the last thing I had
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 3: to say, and I guess this is I mean, you
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: guys know better than anyone. Like it's I feel like
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: horror movies are single handedly kind of keeping like original
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: storytelling alive. This movie was financially successful. It's nice seeing
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: and it's the filmmaker's first first movie that he directed.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: So even when I have various little gripes, I'm like
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: always happy when an original story comes out and is
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: properly marketed and successful. So that rocks totally.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: And it really could have been way worse.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 6: I have heard way worse, way worse than horror movies,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: way worse. So this is like a fun walk in
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 6: the park compared to what they could have done with
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 6: female sex spots.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: It's true. Yeah, we have the evidence. It's all around amazing. Well,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: I guess that does it. I forgot to pay attention
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: to God does it pass excels test?
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: I had a question mark on this because and.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: You guys, we're the experts in theory.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: You're the experts. But the only real option is that
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: conversation with Kat.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: And I do feel like their most talking about their
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: respective boyfriends. I mean, there might be an exchange that
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: passes like inside of that conversation.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 5: She says, it's not you that I don't like, it's
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: the idea of you. You make me feel replaceable. And
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: Sophie Thatcher says, like, but Kat, you're so brave and fierce.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Confidently, Yeah, I wish I could be more like you.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 5: But it's all kind of about the larger contor for men.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: So I was confused if it did or not.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: Like maybe it's a technical pass, but also looking at
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: the larger circumstances, maybe not. But also I have a
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: theory that movies, especially ones that are written and directed
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: by men in the modern era, know about the Bechdel
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Test and they're like, shit, I have to write are
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: two women. I have to make them talk her else everyone.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: Will yell at me. I would say it like spiritually
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: for me this movie, I don't know, Like I think
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: spiritually yes and no, because Iris is a great character,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: Like I'm rooting for her the whole time, YadA YadA.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: But it's like if you if you, as a male filmmaker,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: decided to make a movie about a fem bot and
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: you're having these this clearly like intended to be performative.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: Male guy they're like I needed to pay off in
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: a more meaningful way than this movie does.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: Also, it's like if Kat doesn't like Iris, which gets
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: clearly established in which Kat more or less says why
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: is she, then like, I feel like that scene needs
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: to be framed differently, where like kind of Iris pulls
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: cat aside to be like, Hi, can we like have
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: a little like one on one chat girl to.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: Girl or something like that, But it's like, I guess
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: we don't. Yeah, how does that what motivates that scene happening?
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: I thought it was just because they were just kind
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: of bored and the men in the room were ignoring them,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: were yeah, right, right.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: But that's why I think. I think the way it's
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: framed makes that scene almost feel tacked on, and like
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: further supports my theory that it's like, oh no, I
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: need to write a scene.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: Where women interact.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. Because it's like the way it's framed,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: it just again, it feels very it feels kind of
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: wedged in, and you could take out that scene and
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: basically nothing about the narrative would change. Yeah, So I
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: feel like it could have been maybe like justified narratively
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: a bit more if it was again like Iris having
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: the agency to approach Cat and be like, hey, it
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: seems like you don't like me. Can we talk about
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: why or something like that, or if.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: They like ever spoke again after that, which I think
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: now I'm like, maybe that scene was added.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna say, just need another conversation.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, part of me wants to watch that scene
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: and then just the little scene of after Cat gets
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 6: stabbed and she goes and sits on the couch and
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 6: she just bleeds out quietly next to Iris, who's turned off,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 6: and she's just they're both looking outside, looking at the weather,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 6: and part of me wants to like watch the first
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 6: scene of them talking and then immediately watch that scene
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 6: because it's like, wow, look at where that conversation got
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 6: you guys. It's not in a good place.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, where It's like, I don't know, in other
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: fembot movies that I also like, because I do like
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: this movie for everything that we've said, right, it's fun,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: But like for other fembot movies, I feel like when
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: women don't talk it is for a clear reason. Like
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: the reason women aren't talking in Ex Machina is because
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: Alicia Vyskandor is locked in a cell like there she
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: is being intentionally.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Kept and Ascar Isaac has programmed his other fembots to
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: not be able to speak at all.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 4: Question mark like just dance.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, like it is it is important to the
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: story that like women can't talk to each other because
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: when they do, they kill Oscar Isaac. Right, But in
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: this it's like it just feels very unmotivated. Why there
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: are no further conversations and then the only other woman
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: is like killed off. To me, it just felt like
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: because the story never really decided what to do with her.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think that's the biggest takeaway for me
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: is just like that exactly what we said, A lot
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 5: left on the table there and an opportunity to have
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: a more interesting conversation that didn't happen.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: And then the most important metric of all, the pectel
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: Cast nipple test, is.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: Where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: to five nipples, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: For me, I think this is like a split down
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: the middle. It's not like it's trying to say something,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: it's trying to comment on gender and it's trying to
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: comment on the type of misogyny that especially in like
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: hetero men or men who are interested in women and
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: want to be with them romantically and or sexually, but
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: their misogyny means that they hate women and don't view
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: women as human beings with thoughts or feelings. And in
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: this case, it's a man who wants a partner he
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: can control and customize and who will not have to
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: be emotionally present for yep, who will obey his every
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: emotional need, but he does not have to reciprocate that
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: at all, who won't like upstage him intellectually or anything
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: like that. He has a very specific idea of what
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: he thinks he wants from a romantic partner, and look
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: how it ends up. Because Henley, to your point, like
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: really horrible men might think they want a woman who
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: they can control or who he won't have to do
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: any like emotional reciprocity with or anything like that. But
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: it's so surface and superficial that that doesn't actually serve
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: anyone but he. But he thinks that's what he wants
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: and needs, and then it gets him killed. So there's
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: commentary that like is present. I think we just all
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: agree that it could go, It could have gone a
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: bit further and it would have been a more satisfying movie.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: And again, Jamie, to your point, led people have marginalized genders.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: Literally anything anyone else, like literally like just not another
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: white guy making a fembot movie. I just don't think
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: there is something new to say from that demographic at
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: this time.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Definitely yep. So I'll say two and a half nipples
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: and I'll give them two Sophie Thatcher and Megan Surry
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: who plays Cat and my half nipple to the hack Stick.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: I'll go to it a half as well. Yeah, I
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: think that, like like a lot of movies in this genre,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: like it Start. I don't know, it's so weird talking
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: about like this genre of movie like post get Out,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: because I feel like there is now this expectation that
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: there needs to be overt social commentary in every movie,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: but like not if you don't really have anything to say,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: I'm going two and a half nipples. I'm gonna give
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: one to Iris, I'm gonna give one to Djabouki. I'm
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: gonna give the half one to Harvey Julienne. I wish
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: he had stayed a live longer.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: I know, Sammy Henley, how about you agree about the nipples?
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: About the nipples full agree?
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll do I'll do three nipples, why the heck not?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 6: Hell yeah, just go for it, Sammy do three.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 5: Just slightly tipping towards positive in that. Yeah, I think
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 5: you tried. They tried. We didn't get there, but I
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: will give the three nipples to the cool exposed robot
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 5: hand I really liked that one. To the beautiful house
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 5: and Lucas Gage Terminator style.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, I would love to see another Lucas Gage Terminator
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: concepts just.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: To spin off.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Thank you both so much for coming
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: on the pod and going full fembot with us.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much for having us. This
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: was great and I didn't even know that I like,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: really needed to get into my feelings about this movie
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: because on a first viewing I kind of watched it
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 5: and then immediately.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: Forgot about it.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 5: And this was really great really digging into it.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for doing it with us.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 6: I was very happy to have an excuse to watch it.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 6: I probably wouldn't have watched it otherwise, and it was
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 6: I was really enjoyable and it made me. It made
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 6: me think about some things, just a few things, just
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 6: a couple of thoughts, not too many.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: Don't take it too seriously. But it was fun. And yeah, I.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 6: Love Sophie Thatcher and Josh Quaid. Yeah, this is it's
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 6: really it's really fun to get to.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: Talk to you about with both of you, so, oh
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 4: my gosh. Likewise, thank you for having us on. Where
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: can people follow you?
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Check out your podcast, et cetera.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 6: We are too scared and watch and we are on
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 6: Instagram at t SDW podcast and.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 5: We're kind of on TikTok. Now we have a social
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: media manager.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: Excuse me.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 5: I don't personally go on there, but.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 6: I know I don't even know what she's she's pulling
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 6: some clips and hopefully we're now embarrassing ourselves too much online.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, although that's probably unavoidable.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: And I'll just plug, I mean, because why not. We've
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: Jackuade has been on an episode of ours. He recapt
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 5: on the Dead with us. If you're a jackquad fan,
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: check that one out. He was a delight. He was
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 5: very kind in person, not like the second half of
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: this movie. Can you imagine if.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: He came on our podcast and treated us like that?
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: Not at all?
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: He gasled us he tried to kill us. Well, we're
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: big fans of the show. Thank you so much for
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: coming on.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 5: Thank you guys for having us, of course, and you
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: can follow us on Instagram and.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: The best way to support the show is to subscribe
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: to our Patreon aka Matreon, where we do two bonus
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: episodes a month, plus you get access to the back
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: catalog of nearly two hundred bonus episodes all for five
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: dollars a month at patreon dot com.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 7: Slash Bechtel Cast with that Let's go to sleep, Go
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 7: to sleep, Jamie go to sleep, Sammy go to sleep,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 7: Henley and go to sleep, Caitlyn go to sleep.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Listener, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: hosted and produced by Me Jamie Loftus.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: And me Kitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: Sophie Lichtermann and.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: Edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever Heard of Them? That's me
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: and our logo and merch and all of our artwork
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: in fact are designed by Jamie Loftis, Ever heard of her?
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski, iconic,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast