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Katie Woolf spoke with ACU (Australian Catholic University) Professor Herb Marsh regarding the Principals survey · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Three sixteen with Katie Wolf Thanks to Joyce Main Dowen
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  Speaker 1: Homes own Stuart Highway, Beerrimer. It is just on twenty
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  Speaker 1: six minutes away from ten o'clock. Now we know that
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  Speaker 1: a survey of Australia's principles has found that well, a
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  Speaker 1: number of factors last year, including COVID nineteen the global pandemic,
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  Speaker 1: have had an immense impact on the stress and workload
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  Speaker 1: of our school's leaders. Now joining me on the line
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  Speaker 1: to talk more about the situation and about this survey
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  Speaker 1: which has been conducted from the Australian Catholic University Professor
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  Speaker 1: Herb Marsh, Good morning to you, Herb.
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  Speaker 2: Hello Katie, thanks.
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  Speaker 1: So much for your time this morning. Talk us through
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  Speaker 1: this survey and exactly what it's found.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this is a survey that we run every year.
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  Speaker 2: We have over two thousand school principles, close to half
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  Speaker 2: the school principals and all of Australia that are responding
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  Speaker 2: to the survey. The focus of the survey is on
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  Speaker 2: the health and well being of principles and how that's
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  Speaker 2: changing over time in wonder some of the considerations. It's
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  Speaker 2: a large scale study funded by the Australian Research Council.
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  Speaker 1: And did it look into the sort of the well
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  Speaker 1: being and the way in which some of our school
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  Speaker 1: principles in the Northern Territory of feeling as well. I
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  Speaker 1: know that it obviously included Australia wide principles and school
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  Speaker 1: leaders from around Australia.
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  Speaker 2: Surely we've looked. The focus isn't on any one state.
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  Speaker 2: The focuses on national but we do have data for
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  Speaker 2: the individual state. That's not a major focus of it.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, let me start off by saying that principles
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  Speaker 2: are very passionate about their job, but it's a very
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  Speaker 2: demanding and stressful job. Almost all principles work long hours.
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  Speaker 2: More than seventy percent work more than fifty six hours
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  Speaker 2: a week and twenty five hours a week and during
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  Speaker 2: the holidays, three out of ten participants received what we
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  Speaker 2: call a red flag email suggesting that they may need
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  Speaker 2: to seek some support local support services because of issues
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  Speaker 2: of quality of life and occupational health. So it's a
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  Speaker 2: wide ranging survey and it's had quite a bit of impact.
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  Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest concerns that our school
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  Speaker 1: principles are facing at the moment, You know, have we
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  Speaker 1: got a situation in some places where our principles are
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  Speaker 1: quite unsafe.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly. One of the very surprising aspects of
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  Speaker 2: the survey was the number of principals who reported being
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  Speaker 2: exposed to threats of violence or being a victim of
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  Speaker 2: physical violence. For principles, this is up to nine times
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  Speaker 2: greater than the general population. Let's over the last decade
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  Speaker 2: that we've been doing the survey, the numbers have gone up,
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  Speaker 2: So that certainly is a worrying situation.
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  Speaker 1: It really is. What are some of the other concerns
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  Speaker 1: that our principles have got.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the COVID situation has been quite an interesting one.
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  Speaker 2: On the one hand, it's created a lot more stress
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  Speaker 2: because principals are having to do lots of different things
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  Speaker 2: that they haven't done before. So they're having to create
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  Speaker 2: a COVID safe environment for the students and as well
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  Speaker 2: as the staff and for that matter, parents as well.
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  Speaker 2: They've had to organize on simultaneously having online and face
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  Speaker 2: to face learning. They keep getting different instructions from the
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  Speaker 2: government because they want to try and keep it open,
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  Speaker 2: but they try and want to try to keep things safe,
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  Speaker 2: and so a lot of the instructions are a lot
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  Speaker 2: of the feedback they've been getting has been from social
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  Speaker 2: media and the newspapers, so it's a very stressful time
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  Speaker 2: for principles, but there's also positive aspects of COVID nineteen.
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  Speaker 2: In particular, I think that people across the country have
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  Speaker 2: realized that schools are very important and the job of
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  Speaker 2: the school principle is incredibly important, so I think that
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  Speaker 2: they've gotten some greater recognition. One of the aspects that
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  Speaker 2: was interesting was that, perhaps not surprisingly, there has been
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  Speaker 2: a decrease in the offensive behavior that principles have been
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  Speaker 2: subject to, particularly threats of violence and physical violence. Now,
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  Speaker 2: undoubtedly this is because there hasn't been as much face
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  Speaker 2: to face content, so that has possibly explained part of it.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things that we're suggesting in our reports
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  Speaker 2: was that maybe that aspect should be continued, so maybe
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  Speaker 2: more of the contact between principles and parents should be
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  Speaker 2: via social media. That would be a win for parents
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  Speaker 2: because it would be easier to schedule, they wouldn't have
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  Speaker 2: to take a day off of work and so forth,
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  Speaker 2: but it would also be beneficial for principles in terms
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  Speaker 2: of maintaining quality control and things like that.
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  Speaker 1: When you talk about those those threats of violence or
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  Speaker 1: even you know, some of those some of the different
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  Speaker 1: sort of you know, unpleasant to put it very nicely,
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  Speaker 1: behavior that teachers experience. Is it mostly like, are you
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  Speaker 1: finding that it's mostly from students or is it also parents?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, who's sort of treating our wonderful principles in
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  Speaker 1: that way?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on upon the different behaviors to who
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  Speaker 2: who it is, but certainly a lot of it is
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  Speaker 2: coming from parents, and that was really quite a surprise.
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  Speaker 2: So that if we're looking at bullying behavior that's mostly
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  Speaker 2: from parents, not from students. If we're looking at threats
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  Speaker 2: of violence, that's from both parents and students. So a
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  Speaker 2: lot of it is from parents as well as from students.
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  Speaker 2: Those are the two men.
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  Speaker 1: We are going to have to wrap up her. But
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  Speaker 1: just very quickly. I know that with those key findings,
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  Speaker 1: there are some recommendations. You know, do you put this
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  Speaker 1: research to the government federally and let them know exactly
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  Speaker 1: what's going on in some of our states and territories
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  Speaker 1: so that hopefully we can sort of find a way
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  Speaker 1: to move forward and make sure this type of thing
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  Speaker 1: isn't happening as prevalently.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, we do. Our oponal report is broadly available to
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  Speaker 2: principal associations and state departments of Education. We do individual
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  Speaker 2: meetings with many of the state ministers of education with
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  Speaker 2: some of the with some of the states we follow up.
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  Speaker 2: For example, Northern Territory is in the process of planning
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  Speaker 2: to do an introduction to an initiative to improve the
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  Speaker 2: health and wellbeing of principals and teachers with us. That's
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  Speaker 2: still on the planning stages. Victoria has done this a
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  Speaker 2: couple of years ago and has shown some positive results
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  Speaker 2: as a consequence of it.
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  Speaker 1: I'm pleased to hear that. Well. I really appreciate your
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  Speaker 1: time this morning, Professor Herb Marsh. It's been great speaking
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  Speaker 1: with you. Thanks so much for talking us through that survey.
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  Speaker 2: Great, thank you veryan.
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  Speaker 1: That was Professor Herb Marsh there from the ACU, the
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  Speaker 1: Australian Catholic University. And I tell you what pretty concerning stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Some of those numbers and some of those different issues
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  Speaker 1: that have been raised, and the threats towards our school
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  Speaker 1: principles and school leaders. It's certainly not good enough. I
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  Speaker 1: know that sometimes we can get frustrated with the way
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  Speaker 1: in which things are managed within our schools. But I'll
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  Speaker 1: tell you what, it's not a good example to set
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  Speaker 1: for our child if we're threatening our children's teachers, that
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  Speaker 1: is for sure.