Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 1-4) (6/12/26)

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Mega Edition: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 1-4) (6/12/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're cracking open the Epstein
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files once again, and we're going to begin taking a
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look at the OIG interview with the warden from MCC
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who was overseeing things when Jeffrey Epstein met his demise.
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And like usual, when I say question that's coming from
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the investigators and answer, that means that the warden is
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answering the question. And the warden's name is Lemine and Jay.
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So we're going to start with the swearing in question,
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do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but
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the truth during this interview? Answer? I do. Question, Thank
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you sir? What's your current home address? Gives them the
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address and gives them his date of birth. Question is
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it correct that you were interviewed regarding the Epstein matter
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on August nineteenth, twenty nineteen. Answer yes, question or in
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audit of twenty nineteen. Question I know it was some
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time in August. Question correct? Okay, how long have you
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worked for the BOP? Answer thirty years and August September
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October November thirty years and three months. Question all right,
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and what's your current position with the bop answer on
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the warden at FCI for Dix. Question Okay, you are
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the warden, you said, answer yes. Question were you previously
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a regional director? Answer? I was deputy regional director in Philadelphia.
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Question and how long have you been the warden at
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Fort Dix? Answer about two to three weeks? Question it's
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a brand new position. Answer it just got there. Yeah.
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Question okay, how long were you the deputy regional director? Answer?
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I got it in February. Question okay, and as the
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deputy regional director? What were your duties? And respond? Answer?
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Monitoring the activities of the twenty institutions in the region
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and you know, managing the administratives within the Northeast region
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and you know, showing that institutions were running in an
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orderly fashion. Question now, did you supervise the various wardens
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at those institutions? Answer? Yes, I was over there. I
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was the rating official on some of the evaluations. Question
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and were you a warden prior to that position? Answer? Yes,
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I was. Question where were you a warden? Answer in
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New York MCC the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York.
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Question and how long were you a warden there? Answer?
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I came from May of seventeen eighteen May of eighteen
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until I forget the date. In twenty twenty, I forget
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what it was. Question okay, so May twenty eighteen sometime
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to twenty twenty when you became the regional director. Answer no,
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The position prior to that I was given was a
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liaison to the regional director, and then I went into
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the deputy position. Question okay, sounds good. And August of
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twenty nineteen, though you were a warden at MCC New York.
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Answer yes, I was. Question thank you, sir. And are
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you familiar with the inmate, Jeffrey Epstein, who was housed
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within the MCC in July and August of twenty nineteen.
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Answer yes. Question yes, okay, great. What I have here
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is an after action report that was written by the BOP.
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Have you seen this? Answer I have not seen it.
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Question all right, so this is not something that you're
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actually familiar with. Answer no, I'm not. Question No one
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discussed any findings or anything like that with you. Answer
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no one. Question all right, I'm going to set this
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aside just in case we need to, you know, reference it.
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So no role in the after action report. Answer nothing.
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I wasn't interviewed. I wasn't spoken to. Question all right,
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do you know of anybody interviewed other or I mean
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talk to and at least about like providing the information
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that they utilized to this report. Answer no, question, No, okay,
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fair enough. After the incident occurred, What was your role
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with determining what happened and what didn't happen after Epstein
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was found on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Answer, While I
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responded to the institution at the time. When I got there,
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he was at the hospital. So I didn't go up
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to the unit as far as because it was a
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crime scene. And I've always been trained if it's a
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crime scene, if you weren't particularly there, the least amount
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of people that you know that go through the crime
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scene just don't go into it. So I didn't go
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into it. But you know, basically gathering information on what happened,
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notifying the region, notifying the FBI, the IG. Now his lawyer,
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the war lawyer, pipes up indiscernible. He's already got that
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phone call Hayes. Who's the lawyer? Oh yeah, you know
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what I mean, Jeffrey Epstein, Like, fuck it, I'm going
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to sell. Oh, okay, yeah, that's why we do it.
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For the next six months, the warden. So there was
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a lot of notification on what happened, trying to find
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things out of the status of inmate Epstein and things
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more along those lines. Question Now, did you help with
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gathering information up until a certain point and then were
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you told not to anymore? Or did you continue to
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gather he gets cut off by the warden. No, Like
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my boss was calling me, the regional director. They needed information,
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you know, starting a timeline on what happened. So I
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had my executive assistant there and you know, we would
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just gather any information and just you know, making sure
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that you know, things that were requested were being provided
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to them. Any information questioned And who was regional director
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at the time? Answer it was redacted at the time?
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Question okay, and then who are your executive assistants? Answer redacted?
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Redacted and redacted. Question Now, as part of our investigation,
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we have to review everyone's emails with regard to the incident.
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Answer right. Question, So you mentioned that you provided mister
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redacted with timelines and things like that. So these are
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just some timelines from again, mister Epstein. I believe was
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found around six thirty three am in the special housing unit.
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This is a timeline starting with it looks like August tenth,
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twenty nineteen, at eleven o four am, so a few
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hours after the fact. It just says see below just
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to ensure you know what's being relayed to the DOJ now.
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And then what I have behind it is these are
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different timelines that are all updated throughout the day. Here's
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one that was at two twenty one pm same day,
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and then the next one at three forty two pm,
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and the next one August twelfth, and then the final
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one we have is the August thirteenth. So these did
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these look like the timelines that you would have been
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gathering information and providing to mister redacted? Answer? Okay, it
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looks like it. Question now, where were you actually obtaining
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this information from? You said that redacted was obtaining it
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for you. Answer, he was the exec We recall in
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that I'm not too familiar on the specifics of how
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we got it because there was so much going on that,
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you know, I don't recall if it was from the
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log books or you know, calling around and trying to
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find out, so I don't really recall all the specifics question.
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All right, Well, rather than get into each one of these,
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because it'll take too long, I'll just do the very
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first one. It says seven twenty three, twenty nineteen, at
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one twenty seven am Epstein found in feudal position and
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so breathe, but would not acknowledge staff initially. So that's
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referring to the first initial attempt that Epstein may have
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had on his life. Answer, let me see which one
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are you talking the day of No, this is he
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gets cut off. This is July. This would be we
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would have probably got this from sis question. Okay, answer
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from that, I thought you were referring to the actual
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suicide question. No, what I meant was just the information
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that was all put in there. As far as he
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gets cut off by mister Hayes, this was all his
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first attempt. The warden picks up after that, Well, it's everything. So,
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so it starts July twenty third, The next one is
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July twenty ninth, and it goes August ninth, twenty nineteen,
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and then until so it's only there is only a
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few That's why I was going to read it, just
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because there is only like three paragraphs four or five,
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four or five paragraphs. So this looks to me like
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we sent the information to the regional director and what
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he did was compile this information to send to the DOJ. Answer, Oh, okay,
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you're right question. So this is just compiled off of
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several different documents which he condensed and he sent to you.
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I'm sorry I read that incorrectly. So looking at this,
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then let's just review it and make each point just
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make sure that it's what you understand, it says. On
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July twenty three, twenty nineteen, Epstein was found in a
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feudal position in cell breathing, but would not acknowledge staff
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initially answer right question. After removed, he interacted with the
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staff speaking to staff. Neck was read placed on suicide
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watch and medical evaluation. Epstein received Deli psychological evaluations while
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on suicide watch. Was that your recollection to answer? Yeah,
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that is what it is in the report, But I
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want to clarify that we went you know when I
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when you first read it to me, I thought you
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meant the day of question. Well we have that too,
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answer right question. That one is here and this one
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is from you, and this is what I thought it
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was starting with as well answer right question because it's
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said timeline on it from you to mister redacted. This
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initial one actually talks about Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen.
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It starts with eight am inmate Reyes registration number eight
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five nine nine three zero five to four departs for
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court wab us MS SDN Y Reyes is Epstein cell mate.
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So just starting with that, then I do have We're
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going to get into that later. But what does that
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tell you if it says in Reyes is departing for court,
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but it also says wab us ms SDN Y answer,
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so that would be with all belongings question, So that
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means he's not returning correct answer, yes question, All right,
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So at eight am, Efren Reyes is actually leaving, not
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coming back to the mcc answer. Yes, all right, folks.
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We're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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we left off. All the information that goes with this
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episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
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and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
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this episode, we're gonna dive right back in to the
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interview with the warden from MCC. Question all right, so
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at eight am, Efrin Reyes is actually leaving, not coming
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back to the MCC answer, yeah, question all right, great,
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and then it just goes on from there what happens
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throughout the day, and we're going to get into these
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things in more detail. So I don't want to go
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through each thing because we're going to have to get
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into it later. But so this information is stuff that
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you guys were compiling and you were providing to mister redacted.
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Answer that would probably be information that we sent up
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to him. Question okay, great, And then this is all
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the updates that occurred afterwards. Let's see why is that highlighted?
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So here is something why do they why do you
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know in this one it would be updated. This one
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is seven pm, seven pm, and then seven thirty two am,
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PIO notified of incident by the warden. Is that just
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put that in the wrong place or something? And it
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says in mat reyis released from court answer indiscernible. Question indiscernible,
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Just in the wrong spot. It was made for August tenth. Question. Yeah, okay,
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So the next one that is a big discrepancy here,
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It just shows the next update you have that under
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August or Saturday August tenth. Answer this can't be. This
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doesn't make I don't know, because it says PIO notified
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of incident by the warden. I was off that day
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on Friday. I wasn't at work. Question yeah, so that's
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why I think that day. So the next one I'm
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looking at shows that the point is now under Saturday,
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August tenth. Answer yeah, I don't know why it would
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be under Friday because I wasn't I wasn't working. Question
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So you were actually off on August ninth? Answer yes,
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question all right? You and everyone else? Answer huh? Question
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everybody was off that day? Question yeah, I didn't come
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back to work until when I got called there was
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a suicide at the indiscernible question. Okay, so all of
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this if I can have that back, if you don't mind,
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So all of this all right? Is it safe to
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assume that as this went on, and specifically the last
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one that we have is Tuesday, August thirteenth, twenty nineteen,
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the Tuesday thirteenth of August? Would that be the most
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accurate timeline? Answer? It should be, but I don't want
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to attest to it. Question. I'm just saying, based, is
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there any reason for you to believe that the timeline
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that were provided or in any way it was determined that,
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you know, we should add a point that actually didn't occur,
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or is it safe to assume that the last one
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that was sent would be the most accurate one answer.
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That's how it typically works, you know, but I can't
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I can't attest to it of whether it was accurate.
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But typically the last one that you send usually, you know,
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if you have to make corrections, you make the corrections,
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add information. If you have to question, sure, okay, great,
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when I show you things, it's not attesting to it.
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But I'm going to ask you just to initial en date.
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And that's just to say specifically that this is the
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document we looked at and we spoke. It's absolutely not
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attesting to it. It's not saying that this stuff is accurate. Answer,
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and so I write this date and put reviewed on
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it or question Nope, just your initial date. I'm going
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to do this last one, just the top of it.
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I'm not going to have you do every single one.
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And I'm going to put this in the pile, back
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in the paper clip, and I'm going to hand it
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to my friend over here. Answer, what's the date the
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eighteenth question? Twenty seventh? Thank you sir for initially and
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dating that. All right, I'm going to just actually, because
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it's the timeline, I'm going to keep it in front
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of me because we might have to reference it. Mister
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Hayes jumps in the lawyer. I can tell that this
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is going to be a long ass interview. Question. It's
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going to be pretty long. That's where I was trying
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to you know, all right, So July twenty third incident
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that was Do you recall what happened on July twenty
15:52
third within Matar Taglioni and mister Epstein. Do you recall answer?
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I recall the investigation that couldn't determine if they had
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an altercation or I believe if it was an attempt
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at suicide. Question all right, So something happened on July
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twenty third where mister Epstein was found with like with
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like a noose around his neck. Answer, It wasn't determined
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it was you know that he was lying in his cell.
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But I don't recall the specifics of the report, but
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I know it went back and forth where there was
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a suicide attempt or an issue with an inmate. Question
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TARTAGLIONI answer yeah with TARTAGLIONI question all right. So these
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are emails that were reviewed in regards to that incident.
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So this one is specifically from It says redacted was
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the your AW Answer that is AW question? Did he
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send it to you? Answer? Right? Question? And this is
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a memo from it says mister redacted is the operation's lieutenant.
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Answer yeah, lieutenant, she's a female. Question right. This is
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where I wanted to ask you if you knew about this.
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It specifically says, so it was originally, I guess sent
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from Captain redacted to AW skipper from redacted to you,
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and her note to you says from the memo attached,
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the information I received is not what I was told happened.
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Answer right. Question. So what I wanted to know is,
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and I guess, would you like me just to refresh
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your memory to really quickly read what she said happened
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so we can figure out what it is that didn't happen.
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Answer okay, yeah, question all right? So this is subject
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possible suicide attempt again July twenty third, twenty nineteen. It says,
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on July, let me just sit back so you can
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just kind of read along with me. Would you mind
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if I sit next to you? Answer no problem question.
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I'm vaccinated, just so you know it, says. On July
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twenty third, twenty nineteen, at approximately one twenty seven am,
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a call for assistance on the special housing unit was
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announced by the control center. Upon my arrival, I was
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informed that an inmate had attempted suicide and proceeded to
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sell Z zero five one two four LAD. I observed
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inmate Jeffrey Epstein number seven six three one eight dashed
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zero five four lying in the feudal position on the
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floor of his cell, wearing a T shirt and boxers.
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He was breathing heavily and was snoring. I called out
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to inmate Epstein and observed them flicker his eyes and
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continue snoring. His neck was red with no abrasions. I
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observed no further injuries to his person. An attempt was
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made to get the inmate to get the inmate to
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stand on his own, with negative results. The inmate was
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placed in hand restraints and the staff was directed to
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retrieve the stretcher. As inmate Epstein was being placed on
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the stretcher by irresponding staff. He would open his eyes
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observe staff, and when staff made I contact with him,
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he would hurrily shut his eyes. The inmate was taken
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to HA unit. Was it that the healthcare answer? Yeah,
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health services question, dressed in a suicide smock and placed
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on suicide watch. While awaiting the arrival of an inmate companion.
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Inmate Epstein sat on the redacted of the bed and
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began moving forward as if he was attempting to fall
19:23
over head first. When I looked away, he straightened up,
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and as I turned and looked at him again, he
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attempted the same act. I laid him down on the
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bed and directed him to cease his action, where he'd
19:34
be placed in restraints for his safety. At that moment,
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he stated, okay, I won't do it again and gave
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the thumbs up. Because of his unpredictable behavior, the decision
19:44
was made to have the staff member observe inmate Epstein.
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I had left the HA unit in order to make
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staff notifications. Moments later, I spoke with Officer redacted, who
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stated that inmate Epstein was alert and had indicated that
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his cellmate Tartaglione number seve even eight five one four
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dashed zero five four had attempted to kill him and
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had been harassing him. He stated that the inmate had
20:07
indicated that he had informed his attorney of this matter.
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I photographed and spoke with in may Tartaglioni, who stated
20:16
that he was asleep with his headphones on when he
20:18
felt something hit his leg and said redacted, what are
20:22
you doing? He didn't answer, so he got up, turned
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on the light or so yeah. He got up, turned
20:27
on the light and saw him with a string around
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his neck. He stated that he then called the guards
20:32
and they ran down. Upon further questioning, in may Tartaglioni
20:36
stated that he sleeps on the bottom bunk, but gave
20:39
it to inmate Epstein because he's old. He stated that
20:42
he sleeps on the floor on a mattress. He stated
20:45
when he got up, he couldn't remember if he sat
20:48
up or stood up to check on Epstein. He stated
20:51
that Epstein was sitting on the floor, leaning to one
20:54
side with his eyes opened, but wasn't responding. He stated
20:58
that the last time he saw him, he was snoring
21:00
really loud. Inmate Epstein stated that he comes in from
21:04
legal visit at approximately eight PM, and staff handed him
21:07
a copy of the Daily News. Nick was on the
21:10
floor reading the Daily News. He stated that he had
21:13
given it to him. He stated that Tartaglioni mentioned that
21:16
he had been in court all day in Westchester and
21:18
was carrying on at that point in Tartaglioni paused as
21:23
if he was making the story up as he went along,
21:26
and stated that Tartaglioni stated these effin and words, this
21:31
place is in Humaine. I wish I could report it,
21:35
redacted officer, that n word hobbit, motherfucker. He then turned
21:40
to a page in the Daily News that had his
21:42
picture on it and stated that Epstein was worth seventy
21:45
seven million dollars. Epstein then stated that he took his picture,
21:49
balled it up, threw it in the garbage. I asked
21:52
Epstein what happened prior to the staff arrival. He stated
21:56
that approximately at one am, he had gotten up to
21:58
get a drink of water, as he gets up every
22:00
thirty minutes. He remembered walking back to his bunk, and
22:04
walking back to his bunk and waking up with staff
22:07
there in his cell. I asked if he had waken
22:10
up and seen staff Why didn't he respond when we
22:13
were calling out to him? He stated that he only
22:16
remembered hearing himself making a noise like snoring. When asked
22:19
about the allegation against the cell mate, he stated that
22:22
he was told if he heard him, staff wouldn't care.
22:25
Duty medical redacted, how do you pronounce that name? Answer redacted? Questioned,
22:31
redacted was notified and briefed. It was determined that no
22:34
further medical attention was needed. A medical assessment was not
22:37
conducted at the time of the incident due to the
22:40
fact that there was no medical staff available after ten pm.
22:45
Upon their arrival of medical staff in made Epstein was
22:47
examined and treated by redacted, and he was treated for
22:51
a circular line of arrhythmia at the base of his neck,
22:56
one section on the front with marx of friction, and
22:58
a small one on his left. Me So sorry that
23:01
was so lengthy, But so again, the question would be
23:04
in this is this does anything in here strike you
23:07
as inaccurate? Answer? No question. So when redacted says that
23:14
in the attached memo, the information I received is not
23:16
what I was told happened, do you know what she's
23:18
referring to? Answer? I think she if. I recall that
23:23
she told that she said that it was an attempt
23:26
at suicide, but then she got additional information that it
23:30
might have been Epstein and Tartaglione having an issue in
23:33
his cell. Question and what and my understanding is that
23:38
SIS came up with the inconclusive findings answer in the
23:42
investigation question what's your belief that happened? Answer? I can't speculate.
23:49
I don't want I mean, I don't know, you know,
23:51
with the injuries on the neck, I don't know if
23:53
it was a suicide. And I don't know based on
23:55
Epstein's statement that was something done to him, So couldn't
23:59
prove what it was. Question okay, and is it is
24:02
there any reason for us to know or believe that
24:04
it was one or the other. I know you're trying
24:07
to not to speculate, but answer, I mean, I would
24:11
you know? You have there to be medical departments who
24:14
did an assessment, and you know, typically you could say
24:17
you come to a conclusion from injuries from physical injuries,
24:21
but we weren't even able to do that. Question so
24:24
according to the medical assessment, your understanding is it that
24:27
they weren't able to tell of someone he gets cut
24:30
off by the warden. That from what I if I can
24:33
and I don't, I read it, but I don't know.
24:36
I remember on the report they were unable to conclude.
24:39
What would you know? What did he attempt suicide or
24:42
was he assaulted? Question? And were you satisfied with that
24:46
response or did you think that they missed something? Answer?
24:50
I think they looked into it, and I think it
24:52
was you know, you couldn't look into it any further
24:56
it was a suicide or it was assault. So we
24:58
separated them. Question okay, but there is so it didn't
25:03
say like keep digging or warrant he gets cut off
25:06
by the warden. I mean they interviewed them, They asked
25:08
the questions you had the medical assessment conclusions could have
25:13
been drawn from it. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap
25:15
up right here, and in the next episode dealing with
25:18
the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
25:21
All the information that goes with this episode can be
25:23
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
25:27
to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
25:31
we're gonna dive right back in to the warden's interview
25:34
from mcc with the OIG investigators question, and what happened
25:40
within made Epstein after July twenty third or on July
25:44
twenty third answer, I don't specifically remember what happened. I
25:48
know he separated the both of them, he wasn't and
25:51
then I know he was on suicide watch. They placed
25:54
him on watch and then had psychology talk to him. Question. Okay,
25:59
So just so that is just so you know, if
26:02
you don't mind just initially and dating that one that
26:05
we just read. Okay. This next one is from redacted
26:09
to redacted answer, she's a psychologist question okay. And then
26:17
with the UCC answer right question it says sw chronological
26:23
log Epstein, it says COO Thomas was assigned to staff watch. However,
26:28
the wrong book was used. I am companion log in
26:32
lieu of staff suicide watch log. Was that something normal?
26:36
Was that an easy mistake? Answer? Yeah, I could see
26:39
it happening because we have a log that the inmate.
26:42
You have an inmate companion that watch inmates, so they
26:45
use the log, and then you have if staff are
26:48
going to sit on someone, then they use a certain log.
26:52
But the fact that you know the documentation took place
26:56
is was just you know it was just an error,
27:00
but they did document it. Question now, Coo Thomas, is
27:04
this Michael Thomas that you? Are you aware? Answer? I
27:09
had to Thomas's I don't know which one it is? Question? Okay,
27:13
so if I tell you it was he gets cut
27:16
off by the warden. No, no, it had to be
27:19
Officer Thomas because if it was co Thomas, he would
27:22
have been his title is material handler? Question? Okay? So
27:27
you don't believe it was actually Michael Thomas? Answer? No,
27:30
I think it was the officer. Question it was mister
27:33
Michael Thomas, just from our records and from speaking with
27:37
mister Thomas. Answer, can I see the log? How we
27:41
open the log? Question? That is correct? Right? Answer? Where
27:47
does it show that he started his shift? Because usually
27:49
when you come on shift, you right, he gets cut off?
27:53
This is what was attached to the email. Answer? Yeah,
27:57
typically when you start your shift, you start off. You know,
28:00
you're putting your name if you were relieved or if
28:03
you assume suicide. Watch question, so here is the next email,
28:08
So you might be able to show me an example
28:11
of what you were referring to in this email? Is
28:14
it the same thing that you were c seed? And
28:16
this is like maybe this is the real log that
28:19
maybe he should have been using, but here it shows
28:22
all the other logs. Answer. So this is see, this
28:27
is what I meant by when someone comes on duty,
28:30
but this is when they leave, they mix the book up.
28:34
But they must have wrote it in the suicide log.
28:37
But typically when you come in, let's say the shift
28:39
starts at eight, you'll state your full name as assuming
28:44
the duties question okay, answer, and you typically say who
28:49
you relieved on there? Question all right, So it looks
28:52
like they maybe didn't fill it out correctly. Answer. They
28:56
didn't fill it out correctly. Question. And so our investigation
29:00
shows that it was Michael Thomas that was on him
29:02
on the twenty third, and that wasn't an I gotcha whatsoever.
29:07
My question was actually Michael Thomas is the one who
29:11
actually found them on August tenth correct answer. Yes, question
29:15
And is that suspicious at all to you that he
29:18
was the one watching him on suicide watch and then
29:21
that he is the one that found him on the
29:23
tenth Answer No. I mean, typically we have so much
29:27
overtime in the institution that we go by when you
29:30
sign up for it. So there is a program that
29:33
you sign up for And I don't know how the
29:34
lieutenant did. They might have called them and he signed
29:38
up for it, so I don't know. I can't say
29:40
if it was suspicious or not. Question sure. And then
29:44
all these documents that we were reviewing right here on
29:47
these two emails, what are they answer which one question?
29:50
Both of them answer the suicide watchlog question yeah, so
29:55
is this suicide watchlog as well as this answer? Yeah,
29:58
the suicide observation. And this is appears to be the
30:02
cover of the logbook for Suicide Watch. Question perfect. All right?
30:07
Do you mind just initially and dating this? And again,
30:10
these aren't trick questions. I just don't want to like
30:13
put answers. If I think it's something but maybe it's not,
30:17
you might be able to tell me what it actually is.
30:20
Answer this one too, question yeah, please, thank you, sir.
30:23
And this is this says psychops. So this is another
30:26
one of those emails. This one is from redacted to you,
30:31
also dated August tenth, twenty nineteen, and it says Psychops
30:35
is discontinued on seven thirty, twenty eighteen. I think she
30:39
means twenty nineteen. Correct. At eight fifteen am, So is
30:44
this also part of the suicide watch log. Answer that
30:48
is a log you would also use. Question okay, great?
30:52
And does it say in there I guess right here
30:54
eight fifteen am, psychobservation is being discontinued. Answer yes, yes, okay, awesome.
31:01
Do you mind if you just initial U, date this
31:04
and redacted? As I'm giving these to you, can you
31:06
try to keep these in order with regard? He gets
31:10
cut off. I've just been sacking them. Question making a note.
31:14
Don't stack them on tip, keep them like bundled together.
31:19
So we know this is psych This is like the
31:21
psych observation logbook. So if you can keep them and
31:25
then write a note on them. Answer okay. Question so
31:30
that when after this thing is transcribed, we can keep
31:34
things in order. This one's regarding the first attempt and
31:38
the one we read from redacted. And can you tell me,
31:42
sir what this is? This is July thirtieth, So is
31:45
that the same date that came off of What am
31:47
I looking at here? Answer? So this date, name, signature,
31:51
inmate name, REDG number this is? Is this an entrance
31:56
log to the special housing unit? Question I'm not sure
32:02
that's what I'm saying. Answer, I'm just I don't know
32:05
it might be an entrance log. This is seven thirty. Question.
32:09
These are all dates, but at least up until seven
32:12
thirty that he was in special housing unit. But this
32:15
says Jay Epstein, So I don't know if you would
32:17
sign himself in answer? No, No, I don't know. It
32:22
might be the entrance, It might be attorney visits. Let
32:26
me see seven thirty g tall phonetic spelling signature and
32:30
may name. This might be an attorney log name fall signature. Yeah,
32:35
this might This is probably an attorney log into the
32:38
attorney room. I think that's probably it. Question. Here is
32:43
Epstein again, It shows seven thirty, seven thirty, seven thirty.
32:48
Answer the different attorneys he You know, he could have
32:51
had one attorney that comes in early in the meeting,
32:54
and then any time a new one comes in they
32:57
have to sign in saying who they came to see
33:00
question Okay, answer, So he had multiple attorneys and this
33:07
is an attorney log. He usually had multiple attorneys. Question.
33:12
So it wasn't Epstein signing his name saying they were
33:15
visiting this person. Answer. Whoever comes and visits has to
33:20
put who they're visiting. Question. So the visitor logs were
33:24
for attorneys. Answer attorneys. Yeah. Question all right, you mind
33:28
just initially and dating that and again redacted if you
33:31
want to write on that. Answer, okay, Question that logbook
33:37
visit so again so that we can keep track of
33:39
that and what these things are? Now? Is this the
33:43
same thing that we just looked at? This looks like again?
33:45
It says in May Companion assume duties from staff on
33:49
seven twenty three, nineteen at seven until seven twenty four,
33:52
nineteen at eight forty five am. Epstein was transferred to
33:57
psych observation on seven twenty four, two thousand and nine
34:00
at eight forty five until seven thirty twenty nineteen at
34:04
eight fifteen AM in May Companion was utilized. Question so,
34:09
this one says July twenty third and twenty fourth, and
34:12
this one again Suicide Watch chronological log in May Companion logs.
34:18
Does this tell you anything more about Michael Thomas or
34:21
anything different? What is this? This one is the PP
34:25
thirty seven. What does that tell us that he's just
34:29
on there? Answer? Yeah, it just says, you know, indiscernible,
34:33
let me see you got category. I don't know what
34:36
the MDS is, but typically it's an assignment like I
34:39
could put in and do a pp. Thirty seven and
34:42
say where he was housed aat so I could put quarters.
34:46
So this must be a medical term concerning his medical status.
34:50
Question okay, great. And then this is the first page
34:54
it looks like of the logbook. Does this tell you
34:58
anything different than what we looked at before? Or is
35:01
this the same thing? Answer? It's the same thing. It's
35:04
an inmate suicide watch log. Question So it doesn't say
35:08
Michael Thomas on it he gets cut off by the warden. No,
35:11
it says inmate companion was watching him. Question Okay, you
35:15
said inmate, So this is an inmate companion instead of
35:19
the actual Okay, I got you. So whatever does it
35:24
tell us which who the inmate was that was his companion? Answer?
35:30
Inmate companion Esteban phonetic spelling, and it has his number
35:35
right here. Question okay, great answer, assume responsibility for inmate Epstein.
35:42
Question perfect answer. So that's why I was telling you
35:46
the staff should be the one to read. Just like
35:48
that too. Question all right, so this one from seven
35:52
to twenty three is the actual inmate that was Epstein's
35:56
companion on seven to twenty three until seven twenty four?
35:59
Do you mind initially and dating that answer, and this
36:03
is right after the incident, the first incident, right question,
36:07
This is so July twenty third or the twenty fourth. Yes,
36:11
this is when he was on suicide watch, not on observation.
36:16
And this is that it looks like this is one again,
36:20
it's from you to mister redacted. It says psychops suicide watch,
36:25
and it looks like it's a difference between the two
36:29
in Layman's terms. What's the difference between suicide watch and
36:32
psychological observation at MCC during this time period when Epstein
36:37
was on it? Answer, So, suicide watch is when you
36:41
have determined or there is a possibility through what an
36:44
individual is saying, what they might cause self harm to themselves.
36:48
Psychops is that person might not admit it, and we
36:52
might not have anything to say to put them on
36:54
suicide watch, so we just put them on what we
36:57
call psychological observation. Question and now it's my understanding, it's
37:05
basically the same thing, aside from the inmate is allowed
37:08
to have such as clothes. Answer that too. Question Okay,
37:14
so is it the same unit, same room, same procedure.
37:18
Answer yes, question okay. The one thing that I've learned
37:21
more recently is though during psychological observation or I guess
37:25
I should ask for them during suicide watch as well
37:29
as psychological observation, is the inmate allowed to have attorney visits? Answer?
37:35
If they are on that watch? No question? What about
37:38
during psychological observation? Answer? I think it would be the
37:42
same thing that they're not allowed to have. And I'm
37:45
not sure. Don't quote me on it, because typically when
37:48
they are on that we don't have it. All right, folks,
37:50
We're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
37:52
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
37:55
we left off. All the information that goes with this
37:58
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
38:03
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
38:06
this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
38:08
off with the warden from MCC and his interview with
38:13
the OIG investigators. Question. Okay, the one thing that I've
38:17
learned more recently is though during psychological observation or I
38:21
guess I should ask for them during suicide watch as
38:24
well as psychological observation, is he inmate allowed to have
38:27
attorney visits? Answer? If they're on that watch? Then no. Question.
38:33
What about during psychological observation? Answer? I think it would
38:37
be the same thing that they're not allowed to have,
38:40
and I'm not sure. Don't quote me on it, because
38:43
typically when they're on that, we don't have it. Question Okay,
38:47
do you recall if either yourself or anyone at the
38:49
institution was contacted by anyone, such as a judge or
38:53
Epstein's attorneys, asking that he be removed from either psychological
38:57
observation or suicide watch so that he for any reason.
39:02
Answer they will always call. I mean they would. They're
39:05
always a number subject, whether it was to place him
39:07
in general population. So I don't know, you know, recall
39:12
he gets cut off by the investigator. Do you remember
39:14
ever being called by a judge? Answer no, I don't.
39:17
I don't recall. Question okay, answer speaking with a judge?
39:22
Question all right, because that was the rumor that we heard,
39:26
was that a judge contacted you and said they wanted
39:28
them removed from one or the other. Answer no, Judges
39:32
wouldn't typically call for that question, but the attorneys frequently
39:35
would answer yeah. Frequently, they would, you know, call our
39:39
legal department saying, you know, why can't he go to
39:41
general population? Why is he, you know, being housed here
39:45
and just not him If there was any type of
39:49
equipment that was requested, those are the type of request
39:52
you get from the attorney. Question Okay, and do you
39:55
know if those attorneys were made though when he was
39:58
on eithers who was sidewatch or a psychological observation? Answer?
40:04
I don't recall that question you don't recall? Answer? No question, Sure,
40:09
that's fine. Do you know I know you said that
40:12
and you didn't think that the inmates typically could. But
40:15
do you know if mister Epstein visited with his attorneys
40:18
during that time between the twenty third and the thirtieth?
40:22
He gets cut off by the warden Answer? If he
40:25
was on status, then he would not have been he
40:29
gets cut off now by the investigator. You don't believe so,
40:32
answer I don't believe so. Question Okay, answer no, I
40:36
don't believe so. Question, No problem. All right. So this
40:41
this one again, Oh do you mind if you initial
40:43
undate that? Okay, you can file that accordingly. This one
40:47
just goes back to the first initial timeline that looked
40:50
like it may have been a little messed up. The
40:53
initial email from you. It looks like it's a psychop.
40:56
The logbook shows he was released on July thirtieth, He
40:59
had an attorney visit starting at a twenty He was
41:03
there all day, and I'll send the attorney log next.
41:06
And then mister Adakta's response was the timeline sent DOJ
41:10
says seven to twenty nine? Where did we get that date?
41:14
So are we confident that he stayed until the thirtieth? Answer?
41:18
He stayed until the thirtieth question? Okay, so was this
41:21
just an incorrect he gets cut off by the warden.
41:25
I think that was a typo question. Okay? Oh, sorry,
41:28
do you mind to initial nun dating answer? Well, this
41:33
answers your previous question. Question what's that answer about him
41:37
being on psychops and seeing an attorney? He didn't go
41:40
until after he got off. Question. Well, it says that
41:44
he had an attorney visit starting at eight twenty am,
41:47
but it doesn't say if he had any prior to
41:49
that time. Answer? Right, oh, because he was released on
41:53
July thirtieth. Question right, question starting at eight twenty am,
41:59
But it doesn't say if he had any prior to
42:01
that answer? Right, oh, because he was released on the
42:04
thirtieth question? Right answer? Okay, question, so just saying like, yeah,
42:10
he was released, he was visiting with his attorneys, and
42:14
that's something that we've had a little bit of conflicting information.
42:18
Answer uh huh question. We've heard that actually he did
42:23
have attorney visits during that time, and we've heard that
42:26
he didn't. So that's why I was wondering if you
42:28
would be able to clear that up at all. But
42:31
you're not to your recollection, he wouldn't have answer. Yeah,
42:36
typically if you're on that you're not going to have
42:39
an attorney visit. Question, and just talking to psychology, they
42:43
would They said that, no, we always try to afford
42:46
an inmate they have a right to an attorney visit.
42:49
So he tried to afford that right. But do you
42:51
think that maybe they were mistaken answer, I'm just going
42:55
from my experience, like any other of the inmates that
42:59
we've had on SUICI, i'd watch have not gone to
43:01
an attorney visit. Question. Okay, now this speaking of psychology,
43:06
that's the next point. Let me make sure that all
43:09
the information is on that incident. So as far as Tartaglioni, however,
43:14
it is okay, So did you have any involvement with
43:17
selecting Tartaglioni as Epstein cell mate. Answer we did. Question okay,
43:22
and how is that selection made? Answer? So we weren't
43:26
able to get a whole lot of people, you know,
43:28
think that how we could house them to be safe.
43:30
Tartaglioni was a white male, another high profile case, so
43:35
he is not you know, there is this misconception that
43:38
he's a big, hulking bodyguard, but he lost over one
43:40
hundred pounds, so he was smaller in stature and frame.
43:44
So we said that would have been an appropriate cell
43:47
mate for him. Question and who made the decision answer
43:51
to put him together? Question? Uh huh? Answer I did.
43:56
Question okay, was it in coordination with both the captain
43:59
as is mister adacted? Answer? Everyone, Yeah, would discuss it
44:03
like you know, I obviously I sent it up the
44:06
chain to say, look who we're going to make him
44:09
his cellmate? And that was the reasoning question. So in
44:13
talking with the captain, his recollection was that he brought
44:16
you three names. You discussed it with mister adacted. He
44:19
was present for that discussion, and mister adacted is the
44:22
only one who said I want TARTAGLIONI put him with TARTAGLIONI,
44:27
do you recall it being that way or do you
44:29
recall it? He gets cut off by the warden. Well
44:32
are we talking about TARTAGLIONI question, Oh, did that happen
44:36
with mister Reis? Answer? Well, Reyis and what do you
44:39
call it? Reyes? And there were two names, So I
44:42
talked to my boss about it. They wanted to see
44:44
the names, so I don't know who they talked to
44:46
at Main Justice. So I sent the email and stuff
44:49
with all the breakdown of the two inmates to the
44:51
director's office redacted and because he was the chief of
44:55
staff at the time, and I sent it up. You know,
44:58
I put my input in about as far as we
45:00
had to choose between who was going to get it
45:03
was that what was it? The Spanish? The older gentleman
45:06
who left. He gets cut off by the investigator Ephyn Reyus.
45:11
Answer Reyes. That Reyus would be the most appropriate because
45:15
we couldn't find anybody. Question okay, So he gets cut
45:19
off by the warden and then they went up and
45:22
then I got word back that they're gonna go with reys.
45:25
Question okay, so Reys was then, So your superiors actually
45:29
made the selection, but for he gets cut off by
45:32
the warden. TARTAGLIONI. Question, Tartaglioni, that was you answer. I
45:39
mean it was in conjunction. I sent it up and told,
45:43
you know, the powers that be that this is who
45:46
we're going to be, and it came back and said,
45:48
you know, we're good for that question. Okay, do you
45:52
know what Tartaglioni was in for. Answer? I know. It
45:56
was a big drug case involving drug dealers and stuff
45:58
like that. So and yeah, his lawyer, mister Hayes, pipes
46:03
in some kinds of narcotics. Question some kinds of narcotics.
46:08
So he and then I don't and I recall there
46:10
was murder involved too, Hayes. Yeah, answer by the warden.
46:15
But he was a high profile case. I had gentlemen
46:18
in there that were trying to get in there, but
46:20
you know, they would have probably harmed them. I had
46:23
another pedophile in there, and everybody in the unit they
46:26
know who's in the unit. I'm not talking about him
46:28
as a cell mate, you know, So we can't just
46:30
arbitrarily force another inmate into the cell upon them. So
46:34
it Tartaglione, you know the best, Hayes interjects, the other
46:39
inmates would not accept Epstein, nor would they accept a pedophile. Well,
46:43
they accepted the other one, though, right, none of the
46:46
story makes sense. I'm sorry, guys, I don't believe any
46:49
of it. Answer. They weren't going to They just weren't
46:55
going to stab Epstein. I don't know the reasons, but
46:57
I mean, I can't make the decision and say, all right,
47:00
I'm willing to force you to take this, and then
47:02
something happens to him. He gets cut off by the investigator.
47:06
So someone actually spoke with Tartaglioni and he said he
47:09
was willing to do it. Answer, And I'm not sure
47:13
I'm there who spoke to him, But I don't know.
47:16
Question okay, answer it might have been. But I know
47:19
that we said we're going to put him in and
47:21
this is this is what and he didn't have any issues.
47:24
Question okay. And if someone did speak with him, who
47:27
would that have been? Would that have been a captain? Answer?
47:31
It might have been the captain Shoot indiscernible, but it
47:33
probably would have been the captain. You know, typically, you know,
47:36
we're going to make a move and we're putting somebody
47:39
in there. We're going to, you know, sit down and
47:41
consult with an inmate, if that's okay with you. We
47:44
just have to feel the unit that who is appropriate
47:47
to go in there. Okay, I'm not going to put
47:49
a drug dealer in there with him, so you know,
47:51
typically another high profile inmate would be appropriate. Well, you
47:55
literally just put Tartaglioni in there with him, and he
47:58
was a drug dealer. Question Okay, Now, do you have
48:02
any reason to believe that Tartaglioni in fact tried to
48:05
harm Epstein on July twenty third? Answer again, I can't
48:10
speculate on that question, sure, just because it would be
48:14
pure speculation. If you did answer yeah, it would be
48:17
it would be speculating on that question, and you just
48:21
prefer not to do that. Answer Yeah, I don't want
48:24
to speculate, bro, but you'll speculate to say he killed himself. Huh.
48:30
Question okay. Now, so our assessment from other people has
48:33
been that Tartaglioni was trying to beat his case and
48:37
that he had every reason in the world not to
48:39
try to harm Epstein, and that Tartaglioni was actually the
48:42
person who notified the guards that Epstein was in need
48:45
of help. Is that a correct assessment? Hayes, Tartaglioni wasn't
48:50
in the cell at the time. Question on July twenty
48:55
thirty was answer by the warden. He was, So he
49:00
warden gets cut off by Hayes. He was again cut
49:04
off by the warden. Yeah, So there's how I'm going
49:06
to put this. As far as Tartaglioni, we and his
49:10
behavior in the institution, he wasn't a model prisoner. I mean,
49:14
we caught him, you know, with a cell phone, you know,
49:16
making calls, you know, and circumventing his case and whatever.
49:19
But so I don't I can't speculate on you know,
49:21
whether he would do something or he wouldn't do something.
49:25
So that was you know, my dealing with Tartaglioni when
49:28
I was aware of him. Plus you know his case
49:31
and the request from his attorneys. All right, folks, we're
49:34
gonna wrap up right there, and in the next episode
49:36
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
49:38
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
49:41
can be found in the description box.