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What Is a Recovery Coach? Inside the Growing Wellness Movement · Building the Best You

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: A recovery coach is someone who has lived experience plus professional training, to support an individual who is either curious or struggling with substances.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Curious about their relationship, maybe wanting to make a change in their relationship.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe, you know, we've heard sober curious.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We've heard about people who are choosing to be alcohol free.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: But the coach acts as the bridge to help a person get from where they are to where they want to be, which I love how you define that for me, because I had no idea I'd never even heard of a recovery coach.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: You reached out.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like what is a recovery coach?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I don't really understand.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: The House of Germar is a lifestyle brand, empowering women to live all in through interior design and personal wellness.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: We are a destination for women ready to reimagine what is possible in their homes and lives and then create it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: We are honored to have you join us on our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I am your host, jean Collins, and I invite you to become inspired by this week's guest.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where wellness starts within.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, jean Collins, and today's guest.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: We are going to talk about recovery.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: September is National Recovery Month, so we are going to talk about recovery and I met our guest, stephanie Hazard.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: She lives in my town.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: We met for coffee and I personally will say I didn't even really understand what a recovery coach was and what she did, and I was so fascinated when I got to meet her about what she does, how she helps people.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Her own personal story is so inspiring and she has a mission to really help people not only find recovery, maintain recovery, but also holistic wellness, and I love that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So, stephanie, welcome to the show.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you, oh, it's so good to have you.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love that.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: We're neighbors and we get to do this.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: This is fantastic here.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: This is right in our own hometown of New Canaan.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It's great, but yet we also have the privilege of touching people all over the world, which is a really special gift and hopefully I got that right.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: September is National Recovery Month.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Did I say that correctly?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right, yes, All right, so let's start off with a little bit about your story and your journey, about how you got to where you are, because we also have connections as single moms.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: There's a lot that we have in common, so if you wouldn't mind sharing with people what your journey was to get to become the professional that you are in the recovery space.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: That's.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's been a long journey, but it's been the most worthwhile and the most wonderful experience that I can say, Next to actually having my son, the actual birth of my child, my experience, my recovery journey truly has been the biggest gift.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: So I got sober, although I didn't even call it sobriety.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: I was only willing to take a break from drinking alcohol 25 years ago.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Congratulations.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Let's just stop for one second.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Congratulations, that is huge.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Congratulations.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: That is huge Thank you.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And it ties into being a single mom because I got sober when Jack, my son, was eight and he's now 34.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: So actually, when I think about my sobriety in those terms, it sounds like a lot of time.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So I would also say that, because I was a single mom, I think that sort of raised my awareness.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I had another person who was depending upon me and I think we talk about you may have heard the term like you have to hit bottom, or did the person have a high bottom or low bottom?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I think that raised the bottom for me because there were certain things that I had to do as a single mom that I was noticing I was having a hard time doing and that really got my attention.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Specifically, I could wake up in the morning with a brutal hangover, still get Jack on the bus, but then, like, literally crawl my way back into bed and call in to work sick.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: That was a sign that my life was becoming unmanageable, right, and then there were many other signs.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: As I say, I started moving the goalposts on what was acceptable and what was unacceptable.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So I got to a place where I actually felt sort of frightened.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I was frightened about what I was doing.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I was frightened that I had cravings for alcohol.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I began.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I'm writing a book about recovery and recovery coaching and I talk about the undertow the undertow of this disease.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: So I didn't know if I was an alcoholic or not, but I can tell you I was scared that I was becoming one.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Alcoholism runs on both sides of my family.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: My grandmother died of alcoholism and my grandfather on my dad's side had severe physical symptoms from alcohol consumption, as did my own father.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: In any event, just because it's in the genes, does that mean I'm going to become an alcoholic?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: No, it's in the genes.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Does that mean I'm going to become an alcoholic?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: No, but am I maybe predisposed?
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, so I had the willingness to take a break and so the journey began with that and I had a wonderful therapist who also said to me hey, listen, I'm happy to meet with you, but the auntie is no drinking or drugging.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: And I was like very offended by that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was what me?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: I live in a cute little house in Greenwich, connecticut.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I go to book club, I played tennis, I'm volunteer, I'm a good girl, I don't drink or drug and, truth be told, there was a lot of drinking, a lot of drinking than I was doing alone as well, not in public.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So in any event, she encouraged me to check out some 12-step meetings.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I had heard of Alcoholics Anonymous, I had heard of Al-Anon, and I have to say that when I started going to 12-step meetings and I began to hear sort of meet myself through other people and I began to hear my story from out of the words, out of the mouths of complete strangers I mean, I'm identifying with people and what they're doing.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Long story short, I decided to stay and you know, I did what I was asked to do.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit of a people pleaser, certainly in recovery from people pleasing, but it served me in a good way because I wanted to, you know, to do the next right thing, get a sponsor, follow her guidance, and I wanted gold stars.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I think my self-esteem was so low at the time that I came in, but anyway, that was how the break turned into a longer break and a longer break and, like I said, now it's been 25 years that is amazing.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: When in that journey did you decide I want to leave my corporate America job and move into actually recovery as a job?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So thank you for the question.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I started volunteering for Silver Hill Hospital and I served on the board of another nonprofit that's based in Connecticut that helps people with substance use disorders it's called Liberation Programs.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So I started working or volunteering helping other people outside of my advertising and marketing biz dev jobs and I don't know exactly when it was, but that the idea of booking a new client and receiving a commission and doing it it just began to ring very hollow.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, working on behalf of a company selling something to somebody else, just lost its appeal.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I was, I just I did not feel fulfilled.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: But I did feel very fulfilled when I was volunteering and helping other people and actually feeling as the CEO of that company has a men's house, it's sober living, and I actually had a meeting with him and I was talking about the idea of potentially opening up a women's house and I was kind of giving him a hard time like you've got the guy thing all figured out.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: But what about you know, hello, what are you doing for you know, women?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: And he was great.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: He said hey, you know, this is something in our strategic plan, but we're not quite there yet to have a sober residence for women.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So he said but staff, I'd love for your involvement and to include you, but in the meantime I think you would make a great coach.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Truly, he planted the seed and he said there's a training.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It's totally different from 12-step work.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: And I took the bait and I was a little skeptical because I had never heard of the term coaching.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I thought it sounded sort of like paid sponsorship.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: And what I just want to say, jean, is, back then, seven years ago, almost eight years ago, I had never heard of the term recovery coach.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Years ago I had never heard of the term recovery coach.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And when I went for the training and I did the training through the Connecticut Community for Addiction Recovery, it opened up my eyes to this non-clinical support role.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And that is what a recovery coach is.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: A recovery coach is someone who has lived experience plus professional training to support an individual who is either curious or struggling with substances, curious about their relationship, maybe wanting to make a change in their relationship, maybe, you know, we've heard sober curious, we've heard about people who are choosing to be alcohol free.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But the coach acts as the bridge to help a person get from where they are to where they want to be.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Which I love how you define that for me, because I had no idea.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I'd never even heard of a recovery coach.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: You reached out.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I'm never even heard of a recovery coach, you reached out.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like what is a recovery coach?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I don't really understand.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Can you explain the role that you play as it relates to connecting the dots with some of the others?
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: So if someone is in AA, for example, or someone is in Silver Hill, which is a hospital near us that helps with this, where do you come in in connecting the dots between the other programs that people are involved in and the ways that you help people?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Well, the coach can enter the picture at any point on the continuum of care.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: That's what we'll refer to it as.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So there could be someone who is at Silver Hill or another treatment center and they're getting ready to discharge home.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: The discharge planner, which is, or the therapist that they are working with the individual in treatment, might suggest adding a recovery coach to the discharge treatment plan.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: So I might get a call which I often do from Silver Hill and I'm asked to come over and meet with the client, meet with the therapist and discuss the role of coach so that when that person discharges home and they're about to re-engage with their life, their family, maybe even their job.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I am part of the football team, right, I'm on the team, right, and so we I like to refer to that as the care team, right?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: So it's an integrated care team and I'm working maybe with that person's, as I said, therapist person's, as I said, therapist.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: If they start going to 12-step meetings, I might have a conversation with the sponsor.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: That's not mandatory, none of it's mandatory, but I'm there as a support.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Beam is that individual's ally and advocate, and I would say a best practice is when we're all singing from the same song sheet.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: But maybe there's somebody who hasn't gone to treatment, right, and so how does that person find a coach?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Their physician might recommend a coach, their therapist might recommend a coach.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: The coaches typically.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You know, we're meeting with individuals at least twice a week and having daily check-ins.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So we are in this person's life like we are shoulder to shoulder with them.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: So a lot of folks I mean, if you were to say walk into Recovery Community Center, if you were to say walk into Recovery Community Center, say you're up in Bridgeport or Hartford and you don't have a lot of resources recovery coaches are actually there on the premises of recovery community organizations, so you can find a coach there.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: But coaches are in prisons or in emergency rooms.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: You can find them, but they typically, like I said, they can come into the equation at any point in time.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: How long do you typically work with your clients?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So I'm certified for substance use disorder and also eating disorders.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So the length of engagement for substance use disorder and what does that even mean?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Somebody who is struggling with a substance so it could be alcohol, it could be a recreational drug, it could be a prescription medication but it's at least three to six months.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think so, but it's at least three to six months.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think so.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And then, as a certified eating disorder coach, that engagement is typically longer.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: That's at least six months to a year.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: You know, we could do a separate podcast on the difference, with the similarities between coaching somebody who suffers with an eating disorder and somebody with substance use disorder, sufferers with an eating disorder and somebody with substance use disorder.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: My job and this is what I will say until the end of time my job as a coach is to put myself out of the job.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so really truly, that's to help, it's strength-based.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm helping the individual build their internal recovery capital and their external recovery capital so they can go out onto the high seas of life navigating for themselves.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: word is for this, but is there a specific process or tool set, toolkit that you kind of walk people through to educate them as part of the coaching process?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Such a great question.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you, because we don't.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I mean sure I think sometimes I'm shooting from the hip and I'm seeing what comes up in the moment, but there is a methodology.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, I in my professional training have been given specific tools to use with clients.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, and the book that I'm writing spells is a stand-in for me as a coach and takes the individual through that my process.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: But it's not, it's not mine because I, it's an amalgamation, it's like it's.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: This pulls from so many different trainings that I've had and also pulls from things um, tools and strategies that I used personally that worked for me.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So it's I take individuals in the book, I take them through that methodology or through that process.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So there are lots of actionable assignments and a lot I mean listen, everybody's unique.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: But having a roadmap and some guardrails to provide some structure to help people say, okay, how do I get from where I am to where I want to be, is helpful.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: It's helpful versus how am I ever going to get there?
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: The mountain seems too high.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, is it possible for you to give us an example, just to make it really practical for people, of what might be part of the initial step, what might be something that you actually help someone do or identify or figure out as part of the first step when they are working with you?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So the very first step is actually having the individual share with me what's been working, what's not been working and what recovery, and if the word recovery is like a bridge too far, what does wellness look like for them?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: It's not my wellness, it's theirs, and I'm not here to dictate or mandate.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: That's not what coaching is.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So the very first step is what does recovery or wellness look like for you?
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: And then the next question is and how can I help with that recovery today?
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And so, after we have a discussion and I hear from them maybe they want to talk about something in the past, but my focus as a coach is not it's not that I won't go there with a client, but my focus is very much present day with an eye toward the future.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: We will then sit and use a tool called the Recovery Capital or Wellness Capital Scale.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I actually ask them about 15 or 20 questions we do it together that are designed to illustrate or illuminate how much internal and external capital they have, meaning, what resources do they know about or they don't know about?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: What have they tried?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: What haven't they tried Some people like.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: One of the questions is do you spend time with people who are actively engaged in recovery and wellness and some people are going to score that as a five, like I would score that as a five because I spend a lot of time with those people, and then you would have somebody who would score one because they're like I don't know any of those people.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, but I don't know.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: We actually take the lowest scores.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Those are the ones that I am most interested in.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: That's where we start turning the dial first Right and that's where we start making some adjustments and start making some changes and where I might start making some suggestions.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Actually pause and actually, you know, do go through this so that they can see for themselves where they might want to, like I said sort of turn the dial first and make some adjustments, yeah, and I would think that your clients can really appreciate the journey that you personally have been on.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Right, that makes the best coach.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: The best coach is someone who has been in their shoes.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Not exactly the same.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: It's never the same because, as you said, everyone's unique.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: However, wherever they are in their journey, you've been there.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Unless they've been sober for 30 years, you haven't gotten there yet, but otherwise you've been in their place.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, or I've had somebody else who's, or I have a very similar experience, right.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Here's what I love about coaching and I share.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I will share my experience when it's appropriate.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I don't share my story just to, oh my God, well, let me tell you about.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You know, that's really not benefiting the individual and so I quote, self-disclose what I think is going to help the individual right, and when it pertains to something that they might be struggling with.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of female clients who may not have full-blown eating disorders, but there's some disordered eating.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing a huge spike in women who are using GLP-1s to help lose weight, so I might share about the struggle I had with an eating disorder.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I have other clients who have had sexual trauma and talk about that and that might come up and, as a trauma informed coach and from somebody with lived experience, that might come up but it's not always appropriate.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I mean I had one male client who was a cardiologist and my talking about sexual abuse and surviving that trauma.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: That's not, it doesn't relate, it doesn't.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: No, it's what would be appropriate.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: But he was a single dad, Right, and my lived experience and being sober as a single mom was like so helpful.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, you find the ways that you can connect.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I do yeah, yeah.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: What sort of trends are you seeing in terms of people wanting to be sober, curious, alcohol free?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: What trends are you seeing in terms of people coming to you with that curiosity?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: So the trend is more and more people are coming right.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, it used to be on a menu in a restaurant you would see non-alcoholic beverages.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Menu in a restaurant, you would see non-alcoholic beverages.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: It was called non-alcoholic beverages.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Then it became, like I don't know, mocktails, alcohol-free.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And then I was recently in California and they described drinks that don't have alcohol spirit-free.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my God.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: So why I bring that up is simply as an illustration that the idea of not drinking and being alcohol-free has expanded, has grown exponentially.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I think there are so many articles that are being written about it and it's across the globe.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So, and I would also say that the WHO coming out last year or the year before with the report that the World Health Organization that there is no safe amount of alcohol to drink right, and all of the health information that is coming more far forward.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: In fact, the country of Ireland starting in 2026, is going to put cancer warning labels on all alcoholic beverages because alcohol is a personage.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think the US is ready for that yet, but the point being that more and more people have come to me they wouldn't identify as an alcoholic or an addict or someone who has severe substance use disorder.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, they're sober, curious.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: And the work that we do together is really the work that where I spend the bulk of my time, which is not just symptom management but it's on growing wellness, and that is what really supports an individual in sustainable results Right, building a broader and stronger foundation of wellness.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: That is where we begin to really see that person thrive.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And I could see how that also.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You're building a way of life, and with that way of life comes the confidence and the tools that someone needs as they navigate in the world that is not necessarily alcohol-free, because I would imagine that is one of the largest challenges for people who are sober, curious or want to be alcohol-free is how do you live in a world that is not necessarily like that?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: That's right, beautiful, you just said it right, because that's a challenge.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: But I will say I personally know and I was out to dinner the other day with a friend of mine who's a few years older than me, but approximately my age, and she said it is unbelievable how many people she knows now in their 50s and early 60s that don't drink anymore and that it's becoming more and more common for a wide variety of reasons, but overall health happens to be one of them.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's health and wellness and longevity.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: We're talking about wellness and talking about and this is in the book as well and how I was trained but to look at the eight dimensions of their lives and their health and their wellness.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I would say also that the beverage companies are doing a great job of making you know alcohol-free beverages and a lifestyle look fun.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people still are worried or think my God, if I stop drinking, all the fun's going to stop.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big one.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I totally hear.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: And especially during the summer months.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is like to everybody.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: You know, oh my God, it's like summer, everybody wants to have a drink.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: You know, frozen rosé, whatever, but they're great.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Non-alcoholic rosés, they're great.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Non-alcoholic beers, they're great mocktails, they're great non-alcoholic beers, they're great mocktails.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody's having a lot of fun experimenting.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: So it's no longer.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, o'doul's, but it's no longer.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: If I want to have a non-alcoholic, I have to drink an O'Doul's, which just tastes terrible.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you a question about mindset, and I don't know the answer to this.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm curious, right, because I focus a lot on mindset and what I do.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Do you help people with their mindset as part of this recovery?
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: And I ask this because I think I'm like very many people right, I love wine I drink a lot less wine now than I did before, for sure but it's like oh, I had a great day, let's celebrate and have a glass of wine.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I had a shit day, let's have a glass of wine, and so it's like the wine, but it's this mindset and it's like you can justify it, no matter what.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: And so I am sure I am speaking and there are many people that can relate, which is why I'm bringing up the question Do you help people with how to reframe that thought?
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Because, in that way of thinking, the wine is like the answer no matter what.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with the thinking right.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I've had a hard day, I want to relax, I want to take the edge off, or I've had a fantastic, something really exciting happened and I want to celebrate.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: There's nothing that's so natural and human.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: So the question really is what do you celebrate with?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Alcohol is or at least for me, I realized was a way to self-soothe, realized was a way to self-soothe versus a coping skill or something that I would use for self-care.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So there's a little distinction there.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Eating a pint of ice cream is self-soothing.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Eating a portion of ice cream is self-care.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: If I feel like having that as a treat, oh, I like that Right.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm making the distinction.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: So what I would work on, say with you as a client, is to ask you what other things or activities do you do, or could you try that help relax your nervous system or bring you peace, or take the edge off and come up with four or five, and then to celebrate what things ring your chimes, what things make you feel like you're celebrating right, and ask you not to take away that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: We never want to take something away without replacing it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: So the mindset is okay, it's just what is the thing or the activity, and that's where the coaching would come in.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: That's where we would start trying some other things on for size.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very interesting because I also think so much of what we do we do out of natural behavior, and so I'll use alcohol again as an example.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Right, I grew up with a household that drank wine while they cooked, and so it was.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: You know, that's part of that process, that's part of that activity, that's part of that enjoyment of cooking was the drinking the wine while you cook.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: That is a habit I'll say for myself that I've managed to break, and, and a lot of that is, is repeatedly doing something different than that, and you know so I'll make you know, cocktails with juice or whatever.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll put it in a, you know, in a Cosmo glass or whatever, a glass of wine.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: But I found, if I can get myself personally out past that habit stage of it, yes, then the desire or the craving or the interest in that substance does go down.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Just like if I'm used to having chocolate as dessert after dinner, every single day I crave chocolate and it takes a while to break that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: You are highlighting something so essential, right?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: So some of this is habitual, right.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: And then practicing new behaviors or developing.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I had a client, for instance and that was so part of her routine to pour the first glass of wine while she was cooking and the classical music went on and the whole thing.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: It was like a setting, so what we worked on together, because that was a period of time where she just felt quote like the alcohol was calling to her.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: She had her partner take over dinner prep and she went and practiced playing the piano.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Ah, I like that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So it she had, she we didn't, you know it what she would didn't just sit alone in a room and, you know, have a difficult time not being able to prep dinner.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: But that was the change that we made.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And instead, practicing the piano, which was something that she loved in the time went by like that.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: So, developing, working with a coach and I think sometimes it's so hard when we're on our own because just having that ally, that advocate, that buddy, that's going to help you.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: You know they're your partner with that, your accountability partner.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, if you tell your coach, work on with your coach, okay.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: So tonight, instead of doing X, I'm going to do Y.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so tonight, instead of doing X, I'm going to do Y, and then you're texting with the coach after you did Y.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: That keeps you accountable.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can totally see that.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And also I think sometimes it's hard to be brutally honest with the people that are in our lives and I find sometimes for myself it is I tell my coach things that I don't necessarily like run right off and tell my partner immediately.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: It's like the first, like really getting it out there about my fear or struggle.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of times it actually starts with someone else that it just feels safer and a coach can play that role.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I know for me it does.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And then after there's I found for me it's interesting after I've then done it it's like it takes the stigma off of saying it so I then can go to the people who are closer to me and be like you know, I am so fearful, I have this imposter syndrome, I have whatever, like all these things that are going on because I've already expressed it and verbalized it to someone else.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: It's a weird thing, it's a weird dynamic, but I think a coach can play that really important role in someone's life and in their journey because you can sometimes share first and that person normally you've hired them as a coach because they can relate to where you are in life.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: And there's no judgment right.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: No, but it's a privilege.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: You know, jean, it's a privilege to be a coach, it's a privilege to be in a person's life and to be that confidant, to be that ally.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: They may not have the language yet or they may be worried how something's going to go over or how somebody might receive something.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe they have a therapist, maybe they don't have a therapist Right, maybe they don't really have somebody yet that they feel a family member or whatever that they can run things by.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: So, as I said, I feel as though it's a great privilege and we get to practice things together, we get to talk about issues or challenges together, and I think that whenever we share something that we struggle with we say it in the rooms of AA that a problem shared is a problem halved.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: So you're cutting it in half, right, it's just getting it out and into the light.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is really powerful.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: So I have a couple more questions and then I know we have to go because I'm taking so much of your time.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So one thing I'm curious about is the age range of people who come to you.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, my yeah, Well, it's pretty.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: It's from 17 years old to 72.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: That's what I thought, and that's my current range.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Right now, my 17-year-old is entering college and is in eating disorder recovery, okay.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And my 72-year-old just completed treatment and she's just transitioned inpatient treatment for alcohol use disorder and she's just coming home.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's the gamut.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And so, of course, what's so important, Jean, is that it's the right fit, and even it's got to be a chemistry thing.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: You don't have to match cards on every front, but it does have to be a good fit, and typically I meet people either in person or via Zoom so that we both can feel what that feels like Right.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Sure, of course, yes, yeah, not everybody lives in Connecticut that you help correct Right.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: No, I work all over the world.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I thought.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, I just wanted to make sure, because I know in some professions you can only do it in certain states and there are laws about that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So, sarah, in the clinical world, right?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: So therapists have to be licensed in certain states.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I, as a recovery coach, my certification is just that, but it does not preclude me from working in any state.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: So I work both in person and I also work virtually.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I also work as not just a coach but also as a companion.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: So I have a woman who struggles with compulsive overeating and she lives in Wichita, kansas.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to Wichita for a week in August and rotating with another coach living in with her to help model and practice the, if you will, recovery steps of a wellness plan and also a meal plan to help recalibrate what she's doing.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: So the companion work is quite intense.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: That's 24-7, typically living in with the client.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: That's a lot.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: What do you do for yourself so that you are not absorbing any negativity or stress from your clients, Because they're all struggling right.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: They wouldn't need a recovery wellness coach if they weren't in a place of some form of struggle, growth, development.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: So what do you do for yourself to keep you in your wellness zone?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, you're right.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: As my trauma supervisor, lou Labent, says, we are the scaffolding for our clients' nervous systems.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's a lot scaffolding for our clients.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Nervous systems yeah, it's a lot.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: And so with that means comes certainly not just an important responsibility, but I'm also the shock absorber for some of their struggle and what they're going through.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: So I do a couple of things, several things actually.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So I have a supervisor, right.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: So if I am feeling activated or dysregulated or if I am feeling depleted as a result of work I may be doing with a client, right, I'm just a person in recovery.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not bulletproof yeah, now I'm going to bring it to my supervisor.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: But I also have a therapist and I also go to recovery support meetings.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: But the fun stuff well, that's not that it's not fun.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: But the other stuff is walking, my dogs, I swim, I love to play tennis, I pray, I meditate.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Walking is a big outlet for me yeah, me too and also writing.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: So my self-care practice has increased and developed over the years as a result of being a recovery coach.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I'm all in on self-care.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: I have to be, you have to be, I love it, which is why you and I connect on so many levels.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: In that sense, yes, it's so important and it's so important.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I have to be, you have to be, I love it, which is why you and I connect on so many levels.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: In that sense, yes, it's so important and it's so important.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I have to just emphasize this to everybody who's listening.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: It is so important, no matter what you're doing in life or what your job is or what your role is, that you have to take the time to fill your cup and take care of you, and everything you're doing is to help people with their overall wellness, and part of that is helping them recognize the ways in which they need to fill themselves and care for themselves and also have a confidence that that's okay and that that's not being selfish, that it's a requirement to being your best self and to living your best life is to have a practice of the ways that you take care of you.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing that.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure you've heard the analogy within.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: It's a little scary, but you know, your mom, the plane is going down, your two children are sitting next to you.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Your impulse is to put the oxygen masks.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: No, the first place you put the oxygen mask is on yourself, so that you're going to stay, as you said, that my cup is full, that's rest, that's sleep, that's nutrition, that's self-care in all the departments, so I can show up and be able to have ample resources and a lot of patience and you know, and an ability to be that listener and to be that co-regulator with somebody else.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big job.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you for doing it.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, so before we run out of time, we're going to talk about books for a minute.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: You have a book coming out and this is like a real book with a real publisher.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like I was publisher.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that is so impressive.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: 6, 2026.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping that we might be able to go get it to have it be published in September, but that's up to the powers that be.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I'd love to sync it up with National Recovery Month.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: If that's meant to happen, it'll happen of next year.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: But I really have to say I've always wanted to write a book, but I credit my son with prompting me, because he was the one who said you know, mom, you really should write a book about some of this stuff, because, as I was sharing with him about being a recovery coach and some of the experiences I was having and people who've been in the most destitute of circumstances to now be living their lives in this beautiful, wonderful way I don't take credit for that that's their recovery.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So the process started about five years ago and I was on the beach in Nantucket with my son, my family, other family members and we were hashing out what would it be like to write a book about being a recovery coach, how would I even start the process, what would it even look like?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: What could the chapters be like?
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: So we were having this very spirited conversation and it was COVID, so we were really.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: I think that just added to the intensity of us being together because we hadn over.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I see him walking over and this is actually the preface of the book and I thought, oh my God, it's the beach police.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: He's coming to say we're not six feet apart, I'm not.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: So this gentleman, this complete stranger, comes over and he says I couldn't help it over here and please forgive me, I don't mean to eavesdrop, I couldn't help but overhear.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: And please forgive me, I don't mean to eavesdrop, but whatever you do, please, please write this book.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: And he said my son, zachary, died of a heroin overdose last summer and had he had a recovery coach, he might I still get goosebumps, he might still be here, wow.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: And I looked at him and we all were moved to tears and I invited him to tell us a little bit more about his son.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: And he did, and he opened up and the tears came and he told us that he had a period of recovery and then he got engaged and to celebrate the engagement he picked up and he didn't make it.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: He overdosed accidentally.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: And so I got my marching orders from a complete stranger and I turned to a friend of mine who's a literary agent she's a dear friend from the school I went to in New York City and I said, jane, do you think this has legs?
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think this has any?
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Do you think I could move forward with this in a meaningful way?
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Move forward with this in a meaningful way.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: And she was my ally and she said keep going, keep going, keep going.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: And after three and a half years of working on the book proposal, she signed me.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I love it, and she pitched it to multiple publishers and we were offered a book deal, february this year, that's amazing Congratulations.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: That is Thanks.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I have to say it's been a labor of luck.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: It is not for the faint of heart.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: It is not.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: No, and you've written a book, yes it's not.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: It's not for the faint of heart, but it's a powerful thing to be able to do it.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: And yours really has the power to help a lot of people.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so before we go, obviously we will talk about your book.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Your book will be linked in the show notes when it comes out.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: We'll link that.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: It's coming all of that in the show notes so that everyone will know.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: But I also like to ask my guests to recommend a book that has impacted them personally or professionally that they think the listeners should read.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: So what book would you like to recommend?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Well, this is a book that was recommended to me when I was struggling with something and when I say struggling, it was a relationship, and I was very in a lot of emotional pain about sort of the state of the relationship.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: And the book that was recommended to me was and I have it here the four agreements, and it's an it's.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I want to say it's an easy read, it's not heavy, it's not, but it was so enlightening.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And so the author is don miguel ruiz and I loved this book and especially the second agreement, which is don't take anything personally so powerful, right, and you know you talk about internal wellness.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: It used to be for me that I would be happy.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: I think that my happiness was sort of dependent upon the exterior.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: It used to be yeah, you know, used to sort of be dependent upon external relationships or external, and this shifted that barge, so that I would like to say that it's helped me become a safe harbor for myself and the arbiter of my own peace.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's powerful, my inner wellness doesn't depend on others.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: But this book, the Four Agreements, I could read it once a year and I oftentimes will just pick it up and just quick jump into any old chapter and it's just beautiful wisdom?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I agree it is, and every time I read it I take away something different because, depending on where you are, there are lessons and things you can take away from it anytime you read it.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: So I love that suggestion.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, stephanie.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: You are doing such incredibly powerful work and I thank you.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: I learned.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot, and I'm sure our listeners learned a lot, and we will put how everyone can reach out to you if people are interested in working with you.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: We'll put all that in the show notes.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: So I thank you for taking the time.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: I thank you for the work that you do.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: It's truly from the heart and it's really impactful, and it so aligns with my mission of just wanting to empower people to live better lives because it is possible, you're living proof and you're there to help.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much for being a guest.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate the time and so appreciate the conversation.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Jean, you're such a light and I really just thank you.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: You are very welcome.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: I hope you have a beautiful day.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us for another episode of the House of Jermar podcast, where wellness starts within.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you being a part of our community and hope you felt inspired and motivated by our guest.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, please write us a review and share it with friends.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Building our reach on YouTube and Apple Podcasts will help us get closer to our mission to empower 1 million women to live all in.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: You can also follow us on Instagram at House of Jermar and sign up to be a part of our monthly inspiration newsletter through our website, houseofjermarcom.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: If you or someone you know would be a good guest on the show, please reach out to us at podcast at houseofgermarcom.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: This has been a House of Germar production with your host, Jean Collins.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining our house.