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Effective Communication and Overcoming Subconscious Barriers of Your Teen or Employee with Ashley Ikeda · Speak In Flow

0:02
Melinda Lee: Hello Today, my guess is Ashley, Ikeda. She's a
0:06
licenced Marriage and Family Therapist and counsellor. I
0:10
brought her on because as you all know, we have lots of
0:13
communication breakdowns and families, it can be quite
0:17
stressful. And so I wanted to hear from her expertise, what
0:21
are some communication strategies to be able to
0:24
overcome some of these breakdowns and build more solid
0:28
relationships. And we're talking specifically around the
0:31
communication between parent and child. I find it fascinating
0:36
that even in the workplace, as a manager, the dynamic between
0:41
parent and child is very similar between a manager and an
0:44
employee. And so we're going to learn from Ashley, what are the
0:48
specific strategies that can build people up, motivate them,
0:52
or cause them to break down, and most of them, were actually not
0:56
aware of what we're doing what we're saying to break people
1:00
down. So if you have an authority over somebody, this is
1:04
the best episode for you to learn how to use appropriate
1:08
language in a powerful, effective way. I hope you enjoy
1:12
it. Hi, Ashley, so glad you're here.
1:21
Ashley Ikeda: Hi Melinda, thank you so much for inviting me
1:24
Melinda Lee: Oh my God, you have so much experience and knowledge
1:26
in this area. So I just want to dive right in terms of all the
1:31
families that you've been supporting and helping. There's
1:35
got to be a lot of different good communication and also in
1:40
effective communication, ways of talking to each other. And so
1:44
when you think about communication, what do you think
1:48
about off the bat? And in terms of communicating with family?
1:52
Ashley Ikeda: Yes. So in my position, I've been a licenced
1:56
therapist for about six years. And so I've seen communication
2:02
in in all sorts of forms, right. And I think the first thing that
2:05
comes to mind is ineffective or unhelpful communication. And I,
2:13
in my experience, I think there are both conscious, mostly
2:19
unconscious biases that affect not only our way of
2:25
communicating but affect our ability to listen and really
2:30
hear what the other person is saying.
2:34
Melinda Lee: So it's clowns, like because it's unconscious,
2:37
we're not aware of it. And we all have them. And this type of
2:42
unconscious lens, we all have it, and it prevents us from
2:46
really hearing the other person.
2:50
Ashley Ikeda: Right, so in my position, I work a lot with
2:54
families, parents and teens especially.
2:58
Melinda Lee: Yeah, There is a lot going on there a lot of
3:03
baggage and different lenses. We don't want to hear somebody.
3:04
Ashley Ikeda: Oh, yes, right. Not only is there the family
3:07
history, but there might be trauma history. There's also
3:10
cultural and generational differences that affect the way
3:14
that we communicate. And the unconscious biases that I was
3:18
referring to, we call them cognitive distortions. So
3:23
they're thoughts that not only distort your perception, but it
3:28
also affects the way that you see yourself how you see others
3:32
how you see the world. And it also influences your emotions.
3:37
Melinda Lee: So can you speak about that from the parents
3:39
perspective? So what is happening with the parent, when
3:43
they have these cognitive distortions? And what is the
3:46
lens that they are speaking from?
3:50
Ashley Ikeda: I think one of the most common ones are all or
3:54
nothing thinking or black or white thinking. And also should
3:59
statements.
4:00
Melinda Lee: Wow, yeah. So what does that sound like?
4:04
Ashley Ikeda: So I think typically, we label things as
4:09
good or bad. Right? So I think of a teen is coming to the to
4:14
their parent with an issue. Sometimes it's really hard for
4:19
the parent to see the shades of grey that the teen might be
4:24
experiencing, like, let's say, for example, teen is coming to
4:27
their parents sharing that they recently use substances. Right?
4:33
And instead of apparent coming from a place of curiosity, I
4:37
think it automatically goes to a place of judgement. Oh, this is
4:40
bad. Yeah. My team should not be doing this. Yeah. And instantly,
4:48
there's a blocking communication.
4:50
Melinda Lee: yeah I'm surprised actually, I would think that by
4:54
now. But I'm just assuming by now that most parents are
4:59
starting To be more open, or are you seeing seeing the is still a
5:03
lot of black and white thinking you're bad, or you're good?
5:08
Ashley Ikeda: I'm I'm definitely seeing more of a shift towards
5:14
understanding and realising that not everything is good or bad.
5:22
But I still don't think that there's enough education that's
5:27
provided generally, unless you've seen a therapist, you
5:32
wouldn't know about cognitive distortions. And we have a lot
5:36
of parents who come to us who have a general understanding of
5:43
mental health, but I think there's still a lot to be
5:46
learned. Yeah, yeah, I think the pandemic or the the, the
5:50
pandemic has really, I think, normalised therapy, but I think
5:54
the problem is, is that a lot of the teams are coming to us for
5:59
therapy, but I know that in order for the team to change,
6:02
the whole family needs to change.
6:04
Melinda Lee: Right, right. Right. And so when the parent is
6:08
speaking from probably, and so tell me a little bit more about
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how that usually the communication, how it comes
6:16
across, like you say, they start to blame or shirt or, or label
6:20
the child as your bad. They might start using words as like
6:24
blaming words. So how can you do that? You're, you're you're
6:29
you're wrong. What did you do and blame the child? And not
6:35
necessarily take as much responsibility even though they
6:38
might feel it? Yeah.
6:43
Ashley Ikeda: So we learn how to communicate through our parents.
6:48
Right? Socially culturally.
6:51
Melinda Lee: Yeah.
6:51
Ashley Ikeda: So if if you if you were taught to in that way,
6:57
using blaming statements are, these are some of the common
7:05
unhealthy, okay, communication strategies that parents use. And
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this is that sounds like blaming and accusing, like, Oh, you did
7:14
it again? What's wrong with you? Like, let's say, like, a team
7:19
puts a youth trying to cook something, and he puts his pan
7:23
on the on the stove and starts to like, it starts to burn,
7:27
right? So the parent may instantly blame and accused say,
7:30
Oh, you did it again. You put oil in the pan, and you just
7:34
left the room? What's wrong with you? You could have started a
7:36
fire. Yeah, but that might sound like blaming and accusing.
7:41
There's also name calling me and this could sound like how could
7:45
you forget to walk your bike? Right? That was stupid. No
7:49
wonder it got stolen. I can't believe you're solely
7:51
responsible.
7:53
Melinda Lee: That brings back memories. I wouldn't my dad used
7:56
to say you're stupid. You're never gonna graduate. You don't
8:00
know what you're doing. And his in his mind. He thinks that he's
8:04
helping me. I mean, that was his upbringing. And that's probably
8:07
how he was taught. Right. And so for him, for him to do that to
8:11
me. I think he thinks that I mean, did you experience
8:13
something like that? Definitely. It's a criticism, and they feel
8:18
like that's how I'm going to help this person.
8:22
Ashley Ikeda: Yes, it took me a long time to understand the
8:25
difference between intent versus impact. Right, I received the
8:29
same kind of upbringing. And while I believe that my parents
8:35
had good intentions, right, she was trying to raise me to be a
8:38
respectful person. But at the same time, the impact it had on
8:43
me, I think, was damaging, right? Because I started to
8:47
believe that everything I did reflected me as a person, the
8:51
grades that I got the, the job that I had. And so I think it
8:57
becomes really detrimental to a person's self esteem when
9:02
they're being told you're stupid. You're dumb for doing
9:07
these things, and then we internalise that belief. Gosh, I
9:11
Melinda Lee: thought I was stupid for the longest time.
9:14
That's why I went to GGU with you, when I saw you getting my
9:17
masters. I was like, I'm gonna prove them wrong. So pardon him.
9:20
It did work a little bit, because I wanted to prove him
9:23
wrong. But at the same time, I know that was slow, like having
9:27
me steady flow for a long time. One of the benefits of
9:33
capitalising on someone's strengths or values, I think
9:36
they just have a much better easier time and more flow and
9:40
growth and expansion, versus a push or a pull or approving. I
9:45
don't know what I mean. What are your thoughts around that? Like?
9:49
Yeah
9:50
Ashley Ikeda: Well I think guilt has been used as, as a tool,
9:57
right to keep people in the pack. Right, so we're ancestors
10:01
of hunter gatherers, right? So we lived in tribes. And in order
10:06
to keep a person in tribe, you, a person would have to use shame
10:10
or guilt to keep them in. Yeah, yeah, I think there's that
10:14
unconscious bias. But also, we have a negativity bias built
10:20
into their brain, right. So it's much easier to point out the
10:23
things that a person is doing wrong than it is to point than
10:28
it is to point out when someone is doing something, right. And
10:33
then also, I think we live in a very fear based mindset. Where,
10:40
you know, a lot of our actions come out of fear. And I think a
10:44
lot of parents have fears for their children. And I think we
10:49
try to use like you're seeing with the flow mindset, right?
10:52
Like, we use a growth based mindset, and wow, the person's
10:55
strengths. Because I think that goes a long way. Because let's
11:00
just say, you know, a team gets a bad grade on a test. And the
11:05
parent is like, oh, what's wrong with you? How could you get that
11:08
up? You're so stupid, that team will most likely never want to
11:12
be a part of that classic. Right? Versus the parents, and
11:16
hey, that's okay. Right? Mistakes happen. This is how you
11:19
learn. This is how you grow. We can work on this. Yeah, I don't
11:23
probably feel more motivating for the team to want to do more
11:26
of that.
11:27
Melinda Lee: Right? Right. So same thing with managers, right?
11:29
So manager, you're talking about a parent and teen dynamic, where
11:34
a parent will reprimand the teen and then the team doesn't want
11:38
to do the activity or the homework and, and so similar
11:42
dynamic with a manager and also an employee? Correct, right? It
11:47
says a power you have to do you do have authority over this
11:50
person. And so how you use your words, in terms of how to
11:54
motivate that person is so important, right? If you're
11:57
reprimanding the person, they're just in fear. And is that really
12:01
what you want? Is that really going to create the outcome from
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a fear based mode versus someone that is free to, to because they
12:12
feel confident because they feel they're not afraid of messing
12:17
up? Right? Because if they're afraid of messing up, I found
12:20
that is when people start to contract, and then it becomes
12:22
worse. So if they're, if you're open as a manager, to allowing
12:24
them to just mess up, as long as it's a safe area safe place,
12:33
then they're going to be more open and experiment and get
12:36
creative. And then they end up succeeding and doing things that
12:41
are even, you know, beyond what you probably would have thought
12:44
because they had the freedom to
12:46
Ashley Ikeda: Right. Yeah, I think that's the
12:50
Melinda Lee: growth mindset. Go ahead.
12:51
Ashley Ikeda: Yeah. I just wanted to kind of piggyback off
12:55
of what you were saying, right, in terms of managers and parents
12:58
using punitive and harsh and critical ways of maybe improving
13:06
their team, right, we talked about the the difference between
13:09
intent versus impact. But I think the consequence of that
13:13
strategy is that it damages the relationship. Yeah, right. This
13:17
person will no longer wants to come to you when they are
13:21
experiencing a problem. Right. And then now maybe they're
13:24
they're, they're hiding their work or hiding the things that
13:28
they're doing.
13:30
Melinda Lee: Right. And parents, their wives, my daughter or my
13:33
son in the room all the time. Yeah. Right. So
13:36
Ashley Ikeda: I talked about keeping the lines of
13:38
communication open. And in order for that to happen, there needs
13:42
to be trust. And trust goes both ways. Right? I think trust has
13:48
to be earned.
13:50
Melinda Lee: So let's say what a parent has, there's some open
13:54
line of communication, there's some trust there, what are some
13:58
ways like and if I'm a parent, and I want to, I want to what
14:03
does that call out a certain behaviour that I think that can
14:07
be improved? Or that they can change? Like, what are some
14:10
statements or suggestions that you have?
14:14
Ashley Ikeda: So I think the first I think the first skill
14:19
that needs to be taught in practice is active listening.
14:22
And I think a lot of people think active listening is much
14:26
harder than it actually is. Right? And yes, it is. It is
14:30
complicated, because you do have to be aware of of your
14:39
unconscious biases and also be aware of your thoughts and
14:42
feelings that might come up if this a teen or an employee is
14:47
coming to you in a place of distress. So you're kind of
14:51
you're you're paying attention to both how you're, what you're
14:54
thinking and how you're feeling and also trying to understand
14:57
what another person is thinking and feeling Right. But in terms
15:02
of active listening, the use of I statements is really
15:07
important. Because so an if statement to sound like I think,
15:12
or I feel, or I observed, I think a lot of people start off
15:17
the sense with the word you, which can make a person feel
15:20
defensive, and then they'll shut down and there is no longer that
15:25
open line of communicating. The person has gone into that fight
15:30
flight or freeze state.
15:32
Melinda Lee: Right, right. Right. I love that. All right,
15:35
right. So first, knowing where you're coming in with the
15:39
unconscious bias or certain assumptions, beliefs, and then
15:45
knowing that the other person also has them too. And so you
15:49
know, how, like being aware of them as much as we can, and then
15:54
moving more into active listening, trying to be present
15:58
with the person actively listening to where they're at.
16:04
And then using I statements, I language, so that I hear this.
16:08
So let me understand. I had you know, if I get the straight, I
16:12
hear this, I'm noticing this. And so then that way, it's sends
16:18
this message that I am trying to listen, I'm trying to be here
16:22
for you, versus trying to blame you for something. Right?
16:27
Ashley Ikeda: Yeah, I think in my work with parents, they
16:33
instantly jump into solution mode. Yeah. Right. Right. And
16:37
they're they're trying to fix the problem, instead of just
16:41
listening. Which is some, maybe something that all the person
16:46
needs, maybe they don't need a solution, maybe they just need
16:50
someone to listen. Right. And I think people really feel like
16:54
they have to come up with the perfect response. But I shared
16:58
this video often with parents, it's a video by Brene Brown,
17:03
who's an amazing psychologist who talks about the difference
17:08
between empathy and sympathy. Right? So empathy is really
17:13
stepping into another person's shoes and being with them. And
17:18
sympathy. It's a really cute little video where there's like,
17:21
an animal down in the hole. And sympathy is kind of going into
17:27
that hole with them and being with them. And sympathy is kind
17:30
of this animal that's looking down into the hole, right and
17:35
saying, oh, yeah, it really sucks down there. Yeah, yeah.
17:39
And then they say the words, but at least right? Well, at least
17:42
you have this and at least you have that.
17:44
Melinda Lee: Yeah, all parents do that because they're trying
17:47
to come like, they don't want the child to be hurting. So
17:52
they'll just reframe it and say, at least it's not that bad. At
17:56
least you have this, oh, I'm sorry, you're down there, and
17:59
you're hurting. But at least there's this because we want we
18:02
want to bring them the solution. And like you said, sometimes
18:05
they just want you to be with them. Maybe the sadness with
18:09
them or the disappointment. You know, they didn't get you know,
18:13
when when rolled into they didn't get selected for the
18:15
sports team. Well, whatever that is, right. Yeah, yeah. So tell
18:20
me again, I mean, I'm so I love this stuff. I really love this
18:24
stuff. Because I really I know that so many parents, managers
18:28
are out there out there and just not having the right statements
18:31
communication way to communicate with them. And I think this is
18:34
so powerful and effective.
18:38
And I don't know if we went back into what are those if I didn't
18:42
need to correct or give them feedback about a specific
18:47
behaviour, the eye language, there are certain statements
18:52
like, we want to be direct, like how do we be direct and also
18:55
empathetic at the same time without causing defensiveness?
18:59
Do you have some tools for that?
19:01
Ashley Ikeda: Yeah, so I think the first thing is maybe to
19:06
externalise what a person might be feeling in order to create
19:11
empathy. Right? So let's just say a team gets a bad grade on a
19:17
test, right? Okay. Um,
19:20
Melinda Lee: and they haven't studied, right? So let's just
19:22
say, it's not only about the grade, but it's like, Hey, I
19:25
noticed that you're out playing football or out watching TV, and
19:29
then and then you get the bad grades. So we're noticing that
19:32
the behaviour that led up to the bad grades that we want to call
19:35
out how do we say that in an empathetic way?
19:40
Ashley Ikeda: So there's a scene of psychology we say name it's
19:43
attainment, okay, right, because emotions really do influence our
19:47
thoughts and our behaviours, right? So most likely, this teen
19:51
is already feeling guilty and bad about getting this bad
19:55
grade. And if you instantly go into that solution Problem
20:00
Solving now this you're not really empathising or validating
20:04
this team's feelings. So first, they might say, hey, you know, I
20:08
noticed that you're feeling really upset. Right? Is there?
20:12
Is there anything that happened today? So you want to just kind
20:16
of pose a question, right? And use that
20:19
Melinda Lee: naming it and naming the feeling,
20:21
Ashley Ikeda: naming that feeling first. And you can also
20:25
use yourself as an example, right? Like, oh, gosh, I'd be
20:28
really frustrated or sad. If I got an F on my math on my math
20:33
test.
20:34
Melinda Lee: Right, right. Okay. Right. So we're naming it and
20:37
then to tame it. So I'm frustrated and naming that
20:40
feeling or that emotion. i Yeah, that's frustrating. You got that
20:45
F? Or that's yeah, I'd be frustrated too. Like that. Okay.
20:50
Yeah.
20:51
Ashley Ikeda: And then you want to really, you want to
20:55
externalise the problem, and have them understand that
20:58
they're not the problem that but that this problem is here. Yes,
21:03
that we are both as a team tackling the same side, we're
21:09
not we're not against each other. But we need to figure out
21:14
a solution to this problem. Yes, sometimes a person may not be
21:19
ready for it yet. Right. So I always like to ask first, what
21:23
do you need in this moment? Right, maybe, maybe this person
21:28
just needs some space? Then when they're ready, when they're
21:33
feeling more regulated? Because we can't You can't. You can't
21:39
think rationally. While you're feeling stressed, or anxious or
21:45
overwhelmed. Yeah.
21:47
Melinda Lee: So many times, parents, managers, okay, let's
21:49
come up with a solution. What are we going to do to fix this?
21:51
How are we going to fix this? So you're saying like to ask for
21:54
permission? Right? Like ask for permission? What do you need
21:57
right now?
21:59
Ashley Ikeda: Meeting a person where they're at? Yeah, yeah.
22:02
Right. Right, instead of trying to rush the process, right?
22:05
Because again, if if they're in that fight, fight or free state,
22:09
you're not going to get a logical rational response. Yeah.
22:14
Melinda Lee: Right. Right. Love it. So and then once they are
22:19
feeling okay, they're ready, then what do we say to them? I
22:22
love the and then also that the problem is outside? How do you
22:28
do that? What are some statements? How do you
22:30
communicate that to allow them to let them know that this is
22:33
not you? There's so many times we can say you didn't do this
22:37
right? And so then that means I'm the problem. How do you
22:41
communicate and make it clear that there's a problem outside?
22:45
Not you? You're not You're not the problem?
22:48
Ashley Ikeda: Again, coming from a place of curiosity, right? And
22:51
you have every right to express your observations using those if
22:56
statements. Yeah, right. Like in, let's go back to the team
23:00
who wasn't studying. And you could say, oh, you know, I
23:08
noticed that last Wednesday, that kind of, after you got home
23:13
from school, you just use you seemed really tired. And I
23:18
noticed that that you you didn't study. Or maybe you didn't have
23:27
enough time to study. So just coming at it from a place of
23:33
curiosity, and most people know what they need. But you know,
23:43
it's not about how smart you are, it's just about having
23:48
effective strategies to be successful. Naming that, right.
23:54
Like, again, same, you know, again, like I, it has nothing to
23:59
do with you as a person, but there is this problem, right?
24:04
And if the problem is not studying, and I think helping
24:10
one understand the reasons for why they're not studying, right,
24:14
because I think avoidance, it's another form of dealing it's
24:19
it's a form of anxiety, right people avoid, because there is
24:24
something threatening or something scary. Yeah, that is
24:29
like a test. Yeah,
24:31
Melinda Lee: you're bringing patients a lot of time with
24:33
presentations. For exactly the same thing with a child and
24:39
maybe they're just threatened. That's so true. Yeah, yeah,
24:44
Ashley Ikeda: that was a way to cope. I'm going to avoid or I'm
24:47
going to procrastinate, right. And so normalising that
24:52
Melinda Lee: yeah, I love that. I love that. Wow, that is so
24:57
good. That was so good. That was really how For
25:01
Ashley Ikeda: think Well, I mean, this is one of the most
25:06
common issues. Right. But yeah, I think there's that lack of
25:13
understanding that I think a lot of what we do does come from
25:20
that anxiety or fear, which I think is so ingrained in us.
25:26
Right. And I think that's really I think, it starts in the ways
25:32
that we communicate with each other. Right? Because, you know,
25:36
I think the words that we say to each other are impactful, but
25:44
also the words that we say to ourselves. Yeah. Right. And I
25:48
think we are all so harsh and critical of ourselves. And I
25:54
think we automatically just behave out of fear. Mm hmm.
26:02
Because we're not growing or learning from in that place.
26:05
Yeah.
26:06
Melinda Lee: Right. Because we're afraid that we're not good
26:08
enough. Now, we're afraid that other people are experiencing,
26:12
they're not good enough. And so we start to speak from fear.
26:17
Love that. And so what is one piece of advice or a couple of
26:21
statements that you want to leave? Parents?
26:30
Ashley Ikeda: One, one thing that I learned from one of my
26:36
professors in grad school is when he was teaching us active
26:40
listening, he said, it's really simple. You just basically have
26:44
to repeat the last that last sentence that the person said,
26:48
yeah, right. Right. Right. But the way that you say it could
26:56
create an opportunity for more conversation, right. So maybe we
27:03
could try practising this maybe. Melinda, do you mind just saying
27:06
anything that comes to mind?
27:09
Melinda Lee: I am passionate about leadership. Hmm.
27:15
Ashley Ikeda: You're passionate about leadership?
27:18
Melinda Lee: yeah, It's just that I think we need really
27:23
great leaders, and we need to be able to lift each up as leaders
27:33
Ashley Ikeda: So we need great leaders, right. And we need
27:36
great leaders to lift each other up. So in the first, the first
27:41
sense, right, I just kind of reflected back what you said,
27:44
but in the form of a question.
27:48
Melinda Lee: Yeah. Right. And so it's, it's more about, like, how
27:52
we say it. More about, yeah, the connections, you gave me a
27:57
connection, you connected with me and how you said it, not just
28:01
like your professor said, which he had good intent, but the
28:04
impact was missing. All right, yeah. Good intent in terms of,
28:08
yes, the words are right, you did what he said. But then the
28:12
impact is, you want to, we want to include the connection part.
28:16
And don't forget that as parents, as managers, as leaders
28:21
with authority over others, we want you know, and you have good
28:25
intentions. Just be aware that just because you have good
28:29
intentions doesn't mean that you're making the impact. And so
28:33
just being more aware and intentional with your own
28:37
biases, and be able to say things that so that the other
28:41
person receives it.
28:43
Ashley Ikeda: Right. And that requires your full presence.
28:47
Yeah. Yeah. And attention. I agree. Yeah. With them, going
28:55
into a hole with them. Yeah. And the other thing that I wanted to
28:59
mention with that, as I was starting as a therapist, I had
29:05
kind of like a young client, tell me something quite
29:09
traumatic. And, you know, I was just beginning of the therapist.
29:12
So I didn't know what to say I was just I was, I was like, I
29:18
didn't have I didn't know what to say. And I said nothing. And
29:22
then I actually started to cry. And we were just crying
29:26
together. And in my supervision, I was telling my supervisor, I
29:30
was like, Oh, my gosh, I failed as a therapist, like I didn't
29:33
have anything to say we were just crying. And all she said
29:37
was she just said you did what you need. You did what needed to
29:40
happen. Like, okay, and then a year later, I get a note from
29:48
this client. And she writes, she writes thank you for not knowing
29:53
what to say. So sometimes that can be the point perfect
30:00
response.
30:01
Melinda Lee: Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's beautiful.
30:06
Ashley Ikeda: Yeah. So I think as long as it's coming from a
30:09
place of presence and authenticity, you don't have to
30:14
worry about coming up with the perfect response. Because again,
30:17
like that connection piece, I think that connection is so
30:21
important. And that's what's most meaningful, that we all
30:25
have a need to feel heard, and to feel understood. That really
30:32
makes a big difference.
30:35
Melinda Lee: And that is effective communication. Thank
30:40
you, Ashley. That was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing
30:44
your expertise and knowledge. I trust that people out there
30:49
leaders out there are hearing this and receiving this and
30:53
using it to become better leaders.
30:56
Ashley Ikeda: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Melinda. This is
30:59
actually a great experience. This is my first podcast. So I
31:03
honoured that you had been on here and it was lovely speaking
31:06
with you.
31:07
Melinda Lee: Yes, yes, it was super fun and so impactful.
31:11
Thank you, Ashley. Take care. Bye bye all