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Competence, Credibility, Clarity, Connectivity with Oudi Abouchacra and Punit Bhatia in the FIT4PRIVACY Podcast E154 S07 · The FIT4Privacy Podcast | Exploring ISO Standards AI Privacy | Grow Skills Store

• 0:00
  Competence, credibility, clarity and connectivity are the 4C's
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  based on which we as humans decide to work with someone or
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  not. These are the 4C's which lead us
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  to enhanced or inspired performance.
• 0:14
  Now in the world of AI, do these 4C's hold true?
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  Because if you are not competent, you're not credible,
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  you're not clear, and you don't connect, can you be effective in
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  the AI world? This is an interesting question
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  and we are going to have this conversation with the person who
• 0:31
  helps people with inspired results.
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  And I'm talking about Doctor Audi Abu Chakra, who is a coach,
• 0:38
  who's a speaker and he helps people achieve peak performance.
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  So we're going to have a discussion with him on the four
• 0:44
  CS, which are his four books and also on if these four CS are
• 0:50
  applicable in the AI world. So let's go and talk to him and
• 0:54
  as we do that, do visit Grow Skills dot store and take
• 0:57
  advantage of the ISO courses and improve your credibility.
• 1:01
  Thank you so much. Welcome to the Fit for Privacy
• 1:05
  podcast, where your host Puneet Bhatia discusses the latest
• 1:08
  trends, challenges and opportunities in privacy,
• 1:11
  artificial intelligence, sourcing, and related fields
• 1:14
  with industry leaders and experts.
• 1:16
  Whether you're a professional business leader or just
• 1:18
  passionate about topics like AI and privacy, this is your go to
• 1:22
  place for insightful conversations and practical
• 1:24
  advice. The Fit for Privacy podcast is
• 1:27
  brought to you by Fit for Privacy, your trusted partner in
• 1:30
  AI, privacy and sourcing matters and gross skill Store.
• 1:33
  Your go to destination for top tier training on ISO standards
• 1:37
  and key EU regulations. Remember that opinions expressed
• 1:40
  in this podcast are not legal advice.
• 1:42
  Now it's time to dive in today's episode.
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  So here we are with Audi. Audi, welcome to the Fit for
• 1:51
  Privacy podcast. Thanks for being here.
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  Thank you for having me. So it's a fascinating world that
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  we are in. I was talking about AI and then
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  I heard about you and you talk about these four CS.
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  And let's start with the the concept that we were discussing
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  a few weeks back when we met around the four CS because you
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  believe and I agree with your belief that these are the basic
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  fundamentals of living or living a high performance life.
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  Let's talk about what are these four CS And also you release
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  your book recently. So let's talk about those.
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  Yes, the four books are behind me here and the four CS this the
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  started just to give you a little background with my father
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  walking into my brand new clinic.
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  I was a chiropractor, 27 years old, few months in and he's, and
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  he, he walked in the centre and he said, son, I really like what
• 2:46
  you've done with the place, but it's missing one thing.
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  And I was like, what's that dad? And he said, patience, this
• 2:54
  place is empty. You know, customers, there's no
• 2:57
  customers here. And I said, well, dad, you got
• 3:01
  to wait for people to find out about me.
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  You know, I'm the new kid in town, a new, the new
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  chiropractor on the, on the block.
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  And he said, well, son, that's your first mistake.
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  You don't actually wait for people to find you.
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  You get out there and you network.
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  And so at that time, I was not only a terrible public speaker
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  and a terrible networker, but I was terrified.
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  And so the idea of going, getting out there and networking
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  and meeting people was daunting to say the least.
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  But these 4 qualities are so important.
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  Regardless of what industry you're in, whether you're a
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  corporate professional or whether you're an entrepreneur,
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  these are the essential fundamental qualities that you
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  need to signal in order to perform at a high level.
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  So whether you're in sales or marketing or it doesn't matter
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  the the field that you're in, it's important that people
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  understand that you possess the four CS because when they do,
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  they're more likely going to want to rub shoulders with you,
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  refer business to you, and maybe even do business with you
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  themselves, right? So the four CS in a nutshell are
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  this are the following. Number one, this the first C
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  that will I'll share with you is competence.
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  Now you would agree that people aren't going to choose you as a
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  professional if they don't perceive you to be competent or
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  to perceive you to cross a certain threshold of competence.
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  There's a saying that says competence gets your foot in the
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  door because it truly is. If I say, hey, go see Punit, you
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  know, he's an expert in privacy, etcetera there, that speaks
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  highly of what you're capable of delivering for people.
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  But it's not enough because credibility is important too,
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  right? If confidence is trusting you on
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  a professional level, credibility is trusting you on a
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  personal or human level, right? So there's this.
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  As I said, confidence may get your foot in the door, but
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  credibility keeps you in the room, keeps you in the
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  conversation. So those are the first two CS,
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  but put it, you probably met people who possessed the 1st
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  2C's right? Many.
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  Right. But you may have found that some
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  of them have a deficiency, if you will, in the third, which is
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  clarity, clarity of communication.
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  You know, like you know that they're competent at their job.
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  You trust them on a human level. You trust them with your wallet,
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  with your passwords, with your to babysit your kids, all that
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  human stuff. But if they lack clarity of
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  communication, it's really hard for you to connect and help help
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  them connect with other people, understand what they do, that
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  kind of thing. So that's the first, yeah.
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  So the 4th C and then it'll open it up to, to you, the 4th CS
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  connectivity. And that refers to the quality
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  and quantity of your connections.
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  So when someone's in sales or when someone's going about
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  networking and they perceive that individual to be well
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  connected either in the room or in the community, right, they're
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  more likely going to want to rub elbows with this person.
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  So these four CS, when they combine right, they not only
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  help you and bring confidence to you as the deliverer of them and
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  as the as the signaler of them, but it helps other people
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  understand the level at which you're playing.
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  Makes sense. Makes sense.
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  So what you're saying is if someone has competence,
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  credibility, clarity and connectivity, that is the
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  network, then they are likely to be more a magnet to whom people
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  want to talk, want to work with, and then they can have a
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  lifestyle that they're looking for.
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  Yes, because they will become in the eyes of others, in the minds
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  of others, the go to expert in that area.
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  OK, that's it. That's that's that's quite true.
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  I think I fully agree with you. Competence, credibility, clarity
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  and of course connectivity. Sometimes clarity we also
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  associate with communication, the ability to communicate, but
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  it's one of the same things saying, being able to
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  articulate, being able to be eloquent in saying what you want
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  to say and in the way that the other person doesn't feel hurt
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  is not the right word. But the other person can
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  connect, other person can associate.
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  That's that's very important. But these are the competences or
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  capabilities or qualities we are looking at in people, human
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  aspect when we talk about human being intelligent.
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  But these days we are also in the world of what we call
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  artificial intelligence, where this intelligence is being
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  replicated through computers and machines.
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  And what is your thought? Can these 4C's be applied to the
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  world of artificial intelligence?
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  I will also share my view later, but first I'm keen on sharing
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  understanding your view. Yeah, absolutely.
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  I, I don't profess at all to be an AI expert, just so you know,
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  but my limited understanding of AI and and my interactions with
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  AI. So for example, my four books
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  that that are now up on Amazon, we also have audio book versions
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  and the audio books are five to six hours each of, you know, not
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  my voice, but my AI clone voice, right.
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  So the question now is how, when you're, when you're looking from
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  the outside in at a human being, you're assessing these four CS,
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  right? And you're also doing the same
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  thing with your chat box, your chat bot, your your chat GP TS
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  and equivalents. So you, you want to make sure
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  that again, they signal those, these machines signal these CS,
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  right? I mean, think about it is, is
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  the AI bot that you're interacting with competent?
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  Well, after a few interactions, you understand that, Hey, edit
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  this for me, do this for me. What are your thoughts on this?
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  Give me some information and they, and they give it to you
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  enough times and it's accurate when you validate it, right?
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  Then you tick that box, there's there's a level of competency
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  here, right? When you stick, you know, some
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  numbers into a large language model, maybe it it doesn't
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  really compute because it's more of a language, you know, expert.
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  So clearly it will signal to you that I don't have competence in
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  this area, right? So that's the competence box.
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  Let me go over to the clarity. Clarity of communication is
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  exactly what I'm talking about, by the way.
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  I'm not talking about clarity of thought, clarity of vision.
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  When I speak about the four CS, I'm actually talking to
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  someone's ability, as you said, to articulate, articulate
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  eloquently, being concise, precise, but most importantly,
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  speaking in a way that people understand, right?
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  That's what it's all about. Communication is about making
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  sure the other person gets you, making sure your message lands
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  right. So clarity with again, a chat
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  bot using ChatGPT, when I communicate, it comes back very
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  clear. In fact, sometimes I actually
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  put in a message and I say, please edit for clarity because
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  I want to make sure that I'm communicating as clearly as
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  possible. And sometimes, more often than
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  not, it communicates in a way that's more clear than the way I
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  would have put it. I may have used 57 words to
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  communicate and it's probably used sometimes half right,
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  Sometimes it goes longer than needed as well.
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  So, so, but there is, there is the ability and quality of
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  clarity communication, the ability to communicate clearly.
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  It has OK, now let's go to connectivity.
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  Well, connectivity is a no brainer because you know that
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  when you are asking for information that it, it is
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  connected to the web, It's connected to all the great
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  minds, it's connected to incredible vast resources.
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  So it comes back with the answer you're looking for because of
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  its level of connectivity. When you ask a friend, hey, what
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  are the, you know, tax regulations in, in, I don't
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  know, Vietnam, he's going to be like, I don't know because his
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  connectivity doesn't reach that far.
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  But now that brings us to the final sea of credibility, right?
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  Because credibility is being able to trust somebody on a
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  human level, to trust that they have your best interests at
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  heart, your best, you know they care about you and they're
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  playing fair. Now, what's interesting about my
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  interactions with AI is it sometimes has customer service
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  and this ability to care and serve you built in.
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  Because when you say, you know, you ask a question or what are
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  the, the tax implications for Vietnam, it gives you an answer.
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  It'll say, would you like me to help you with any other areas in
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  that region or perhaps around the world?
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  So that's going like the extra mile, right?
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  Whereas if you asked a friend what are the tax implications of
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  Vietnam, they either give you an answer or say, I don't know, or
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  say, let me find out for you. And they come back with that
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  answer only. And they're very, it's very
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  unlikely they're going to say, is there anything else I could
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  help you with? Of course, they're not your, you
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  know, they're they're, they're not there to serve you in whole
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  just in part because that's what you asked for.
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  So, but I think it does speak to the human beings ability to be
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  stretched in that regard, right, where we can, you know, serve
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  our customers to the NTH degree instead of just giving them the
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  bare minimum that they ask for. The only thing though that
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  there's a question mark about is does AII should say, does future
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  AI have our best interests at heart?
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  Right. Yeah, but I think from your
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  response a shift my understanding.
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  Normally I would have said the four CS do apply to AI but they
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  apply in 2 dimensions. 1 is they can be my AI can be my
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  assistant. As you mentioned.
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  You ask your GPT to bring more clarity, you ask a church GPT to
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  bring more nuances, references to my pitch, and then I can
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  bring more credibility. So I can use ChatGPT or AI to
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  make my make me more, bring me more of the four CS in my pitch,
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  in my conversation, in my writing, in my interactions to
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  others. So that's being an assistant.
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  But the second one which I had before this explanation that you
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  gave me is end of the day, artificial intelligence is also
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  intelligence. So when we apply these two human
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  intelligence, artificial intelligence also needs to be
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  credible for me to use it. Artificial intelligence also
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  needs to be competent for me to use it.
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  Artificial intelligence also needs to be clear and be
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  communicative to me if I want to use it.
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  And connectivity, of course, if it has to have the credibility,
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  if it has to have the connectivity clarity and it has
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  to have the common, what is it, the competence?
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  It needs to go through a network on the web to extract that
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  information. Because intelligence is all
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  about synthesising and aggregating different parts of
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  information. Because once I was talking to
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  Brian Tracy, who's also your mentor.
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  I believe he. Actually wrote the foreword for
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  the Clarity book. Nice.
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  So and he was talking about see, there's a lot of information and
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  knowledge in the world. What I do is I go out, I read
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  those books, I put, put them, package them in a way and make
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  it clear for people. So essentially ability to
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  connect, collect, synthesise and simplify that information.
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  If AI can do that, then AI would be credible.
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  So AI, the four CS apply both ways in terms of what AI does
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  and also in terms of how it can assist us and when it assist us
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  as human beings. And we use AI, which is applying
• 15:11
  the four CS, we together become stronger because you mentioned
• 15:16
  you use Jack GPT to enhance the clarity, to increase the
• 15:20
  clarity. And then the collective
• 15:22
  intelligence of you and me or any other human being combined
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  with the artificial intelligence, we are able to
• 15:28
  serve better. And of course, we have the fear
• 15:30
  factor around what will happen to the privacy?
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  What will happen to AI? Would it override humans?
• 15:37
  Would it be singular with humans?
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  But that's the fear factor. And but closing on AI in itself
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  will apply these four CS and these four CS do integrate.
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  So I think we are in synchronicity on that one.
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  But I do want to mention though that there is there's a
• 15:53
  difference as well between human interaction and artificial
• 15:57
  interaction with AI in that, in that, you know, there's times
• 16:01
  when I ask Chachi PT something and it just gives me an answer,
• 16:08
  but it's nowhere near a real answer.
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  Example, I was travelling to the US to actually visit Brian
• 16:14
  Tracy, Doctor Ivan and Doctor John Di Martini who wrote the
• 16:18
  forwards for my books, three out of the four books and are also
• 16:22
  in an upcoming film that I'm of documentary that I'm working on.
• 16:25
  And I wanted to see is there US clearance in Abu Dhabi airport?
• 16:30
  Because someone that said to me, there is someone someone said no
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  there isn't. I remember that it was the case
• 16:36
  the last time I travelled the USI was wondering if it was
• 16:38
  changed. So I went in and asked and it
• 16:40
  said no, there are no clear US clearance from from it, from Abu
• 16:45
  Dhabi airport, which means you got to you do your US clearance
• 16:48
  when you enter the United States.
• 16:50
  And all I said was Are you sure? And it said, my mistake,
• 16:55
  actually you can't do pre clearance in the US, in Abu
• 16:58
  Dhabi for the US. See what I mean?
• 17:00
  So there's times when it will just give you an answer, but
• 17:02
  it's just, it's not the right answer.
• 17:04
  There's times when it won't, it won't admit that it doesn't know
• 17:09
  something and it keeps trying. It says, I'll provide you the
• 17:12
  Excel sheet in, you know, 20 minutes.
• 17:14
  And I'm like, it's been a day. And you know, you seem to keep
• 17:20
  suggesting you're going to deliver this and you don't, you
• 17:24
  know, I'm actually not sure if you have the level of competence
• 17:28
  here that you say you do. You've broken your word several
• 17:32
  times. There's a whole interaction with
• 17:33
  with me and AI on this and I have this, you know, documented
• 17:36
  and it was just completely breaking it's word over and over
• 17:39
  and over again because it didn't, it wasn't able to to
• 17:42
  actually. And this was a paid version, it
• 17:44
  wasn't actually able to deliver. Yeah, I think the way the AI
• 17:52
  works is just like humans. You hire an assistant, a
• 17:55
  colleague, a staff member. Sometimes the person is good and
• 17:58
  sometimes it's not good. So between the Chachi PT, the
• 18:01
  cloud cloud and the Gemini and everybody, some are good, some
• 18:06
  are basic and some are good for even one purpose and not for the
• 18:09
  other purpose. That's one.
• 18:10
  And 2nd is like if you hire a staff member, over time they
• 18:14
  learn and understand your behaviour, your pattern and
• 18:16
  everything and then they become accustomed to what you ask.
• 18:19
  And even when you worked with somebody for 10 years, sometimes
• 18:22
  you have to ask a clarification question to get the right
• 18:24
  answer. So that does not be placed since
• 18:27
  you asked artificial intelligence first time, right
• 18:29
  option. You need to follow up, you need
• 18:31
  to probe, you need to nudge, and you need to get to the direction
• 18:34
  and you need to also validate, just not because that GPT or
• 18:38
  perplexity says it. You believe it.
• 18:40
  So the human element or the intelligence element doesn't go
• 18:43
  away. It's about having an assistant,
• 18:45
  which is, yeah, OK, Having artificial intelligence, but
• 18:48
  using it in the right way, that's my.
• 18:50
  Opinion. And you're right because I could
• 18:52
  have asked two friends, hey is there a clearance?
• 18:55
  One friend says yes. One friend says 100% sure, but
• 18:58
  they're wrong. And if I ask Are you sure, they
• 19:01
  might say yes, but they're in fact not true.
• 19:03
  They're not. Exactly they.
• 19:04
  Don't know, and that that is exactly true, but what I was
• 19:07
  alluding to and I maybe wouldn't express it in the clearest
• 19:11
  possible ways. I'm just saying that human
• 19:15
  beings have the potential to signal credibility to a greater
• 19:19
  degree than AI at the moment. Because I can care for you more
• 19:23
  than an AI can at the moment, because I can, I can understand
• 19:28
  what you value most in life. I can figure out a way to create
• 19:31
  a win win with you right now. AI still trying to understand
• 19:34
  you, figure you out still in its infancy really.
• 19:39
  But it, it does have incredible potential.
• 19:41
  But like you said, it can it, it, it's going to replicate
• 19:45
  human intelligence. After all, we're the ones
• 19:46
  programming it. Yeah.
• 19:48
  Normally we talk about, I mean in technical terms about 7
• 19:52
  stages of AI and we are at end of in the stage 3, which is
• 19:58
  about doing some simple easy tasks or being able to be bit
• 20:02
  more intelligent, learning by itself, but then having the
• 20:05
  emotional intelligence or the salience of human beings.
• 20:09
  Because if you're you would have heard the word salience in the
• 20:12
  psychology or psychiatry terms. And that salience aspect is
• 20:18
  still missing. It will, it is, there is an
• 20:20
  expectation that it will come, but nobody knows it will come or
• 20:24
  not. And of course then when the
• 20:27
  salience come, then the they will become more intelligent or
• 20:30
  probably as intelligent as us and then eventually more
• 20:33
  intelligent because then they have the processing power and
• 20:37
  ability to grasp. Because I sitting here don't
• 20:40
  search Google and everywhere all the web, that machine would have
• 20:44
  that capability and probably it will be smarter than us.
• 20:47
  And then eventually it becomes singular, meaning we are not
• 20:50
  able to identify that human is it AI and then even surpassing
• 20:54
  him. So those stages are in my
• 20:56
  opinion more of predicted or fascinated or saying this will
• 21:03
  happen. So stage 4567 has not happened
• 21:06
  it we are in stage 3 and we are in Nacency, as you said and in
• 21:09
  the beginning of the world. But this is so powerful already
• 21:15
  to assist us in doing our work better.
• 21:17
  And if we use the collective intelligence of human but human
• 21:20
  remaining intelligent and asking questions, prodding, clarifying
• 21:24
  and confirming more important, yeah, then the artificial
• 21:28
  intelligence is of real use and it helps us do things better.
• 21:31
  Now, we were talking a bit about the unknown and the fear factor.
• 21:36
  There's a bit of concern when we talk about AI because we as
• 21:42
  humans want to be competent, performance and all that.
• 21:44
  And then we heard about AI. And then we also hear, well, the
• 21:49
  privacy would be dead. We would not have any privacy.
• 21:54
  And what is your view? Because you're not a privacy
• 21:56
  expert, you are more human performance, human behaviour
• 22:00
  psychology expert or helping people have better do better in
• 22:04
  life. And how do you see this privacy
• 22:07
  outside as an outsider concern of privacy, I mean to say
• 22:12
  especially in AI world? Yeah.
• 22:15
  So really when we talk about privacy, when we talk about
• 22:18
  potential AI, AI threating threats and threatening humanity
• 22:22
  and all that kind of stuff, it, it's really rooted in, in the
• 22:27
  fear that most people carry with them in life.
• 22:29
  And that's the, what's called the fear of the unknown, right?
• 22:33
  So, for example, you talked about AI, you know, being at, at
• 22:37
  stage 3, etcetera. I, I don't know if AI can ever
• 22:40
  get to the, to the stage that we are at as human beings because
• 22:44
  there's one particular thing they're missing and that's the
• 22:48
  body, because we have a, we have Physiology, right?
• 22:54
  And so when I'm speaking with you and I'm making a decision, I
• 22:58
  can base, I can get a gut feeling about whether there's
• 23:02
  danger or not. I can get an intuition about
• 23:06
  things. I can feel something in my
• 23:08
  heart, in my head and in my gut in other parts of my body.
• 23:11
  I can pick up how you communicate and how you signal
• 23:16
  physiologically to tell if you're up to something, to tell
• 23:19
  if I can, if you can be trusted on a human or personal level.
• 23:24
  And and that is what drives a lot of human interactions.
• 23:28
  We have feelings that we get intuitions that we get,
• 23:31
  instincts that we feel that help us navigate life.
• 23:36
  So I'm sceptical as to whether it will ever be able to, you
• 23:40
  know, be salient, tap into emotional intelligence, tap into
• 23:45
  its intuition, if it can, even if it's even capable of
• 23:48
  generating it, if it's able to experience emotions, if it's
• 23:52
  able to feel something in its gut guiding it.
• 23:57
  And I think this speaks to the fact that we as human beings
• 24:02
  have the ability and potential to connect with one another at a
• 24:05
  deep, a really deep level. You're not at an artificial
• 24:10
  level, at a superficial level. And I'm not knocking AI.
• 24:13
  I'm saying you're right. It it can serve as an assistant,
• 24:16
  it can serve us in many ways. It can fill many gaps.
• 24:20
  Yeah. And yes, it will take many it
• 24:22
  could potentially threaten people's jobs because, you know,
• 24:25
  I just came back from Los Angeles.
• 24:26
  There was many car, you know, what do they call them self
• 24:30
  driving vehicles? That was first time I've ever
• 24:33
  seen one in my life. I'm in a traffic light.
• 24:35
  I turn left and I'm like, what an interesting vehicle.
• 24:37
  And I I move a little closer and I look and I'm like there's
• 24:39
  nobody in the front seat, nobody in the back seat.
• 24:42
  It's a taxi, this Waymo thing, I think it's called.
• 24:44
  But so, yeah, it's, it's definitely going to shift and,
• 24:50
  and disrupt industry. There's no doubt about that.
• 24:53
  Sectors, no, no doubt about that.
• 24:56
  Every possible job. I'm not sure about that.
• 24:59
  So fear, so the, the fundamental human fear, according to most
• 25:04
  psychologists, is called fear of the unknown, right?
• 25:08
  Which doesn't exist. You believe it or not, you can't
• 25:12
  fear something you don't know. See, there are two parts for
• 25:16
  those of us who are more self aware, who are more
• 25:20
  understanding psychology, there is No Fear of unknown.
• 25:24
  We understand that. But for a average human being on
• 25:28
  this planet, there is a fear of unknown.
• 25:33
  And that's where there needs to be guidance.
• 25:35
  There needs to be help to manage this fear.
• 25:39
  And even now I don't want to get into the business of religion,
• 25:43
  but religion also feeds on the fear.
• 25:46
  Fear, fear of unknown. It says OK, leave your fear of
• 25:50
  unknown to a specific entity. But anyways, I think I agree
• 25:55
  with you on the fact that we don't know.
• 25:58
  It's speculative and it's expected that AI will have
• 26:02
  stallions, AI will have emotions, AI will have feel,
• 26:05
  touch and everything. But we don't know and till we
• 26:08
  have seen it, people like you and me will say let's wait.
• 26:11
  But those are who are scientists and who are making predictions.
• 26:15
  They are saying it will be there in X number of years.
• 26:17
  Let's see when it's there, we will experience it, we will have
• 26:21
  fun with it and we will enjoy it also.
• 26:23
  Like we are enjoying the current AI and we are taking advantage
• 26:26
  of it to make our world or make our work better.
• 26:29
  But tell me more about what do you do on regular basis and how
• 26:34
  can people? Well, what?
• 26:36
  What do you How do you serve people?
• 26:38
  Oh, well, hold on a second. There's no way we're going there
• 26:40
  yet. Put it.
• 26:43
  Hold on a second. You, you said something about,
• 26:46
  you know, there's a percentage of people who are not afraid of
• 26:50
  the unknown because they have some certain level of
• 26:52
  understanding. No, all I'm saying to you is
• 26:55
  anyone who thinks they have a fear of the unknown actually is
• 26:58
  just living in some illusion because they're not actually
• 27:00
  afraid of the unknown. Because here's the deal, right?
• 27:03
  I have my my favourite phrase in this area, this is based on my
• 27:07
  book that I wrote called Fear Forward, is that we don't fear
• 27:10
  the mystery of tomorrow. We fear the history of
• 27:14
  yesterday. Do.
• 27:16
  You understand that a bit? Yeah, we fear running into
• 27:19
  yesterday tomorrow. OK.
• 27:22
  So with AI, we're not if I say to someone, Oh my God,
• 27:26
  artificial intelligence is going to do 123, I say, OK, what is
• 27:30
  one? Well, one, is this going to
• 27:33
  replace my job or, or I'm going to get fired?
• 27:36
  Right. OK, great.
• 27:37
  So if you have that fear of being fired or laid off from
• 27:40
  your job, that can't come from some unknown place.
• 27:44
  It comes from one very known place and that is here.
• 27:50
  That known place is you had a job yesterday.
• 27:53
  You were fired or you know, that your father was dedicated to
• 27:56
  some company for many years and they laid him off, you know,
• 28:01
  unjustifiably or something. You understand that's where it
• 28:03
  comes from. They're afraid of repeating
• 28:05
  their history. Yeah.
• 28:06
  So it's kind of like the tail is wagging the dog, if you will.
• 28:09
  You know, like it's the past, our past events that are
• 28:13
  actually active in our mind now that projects into the future
• 28:19
  what we're afraid of. I would if you allow me rephrase
• 28:24
  that a bit, saying it's either the fear stemming from your past
• 28:30
  or the stories you have heard because sometimes you're not
• 28:34
  experienced it but you're fearful that it will happen to
• 28:36
  you because it happened to somebody else or you've heard it
• 28:40
  happens. Yes, yes, that's what I
• 28:42
  mentioned is that it was either you were laid off or your father
• 28:45
  was laid off or you read about it, you watched the video, heard
• 28:48
  about it somehow, but that's still an experience, right?
• 28:51
  We call them. Your past does not mean your
• 28:54
  experience. Past means a known story, known
• 28:57
  experience of somebody else or you which you have.
• 29:00
  I call them. I make a distinction between
• 29:04
  direct experiences you had personally and indirect
• 29:08
  experience that you are experiencing through a story,
• 29:12
  through a video, or through someone else.
• 29:14
  Yeah, these are called direct and indirect fears.
• 29:17
  That makes it more clear. So we are on the same page.
• 29:21
  So, so that's, that's very an interesting way in which you
• 29:26
  articulate. I like it and I'm in full
• 29:28
  agreement with you. But talking about you, then what
• 29:32
  do you do and how do you serve people?
• 29:35
  Yes. So I'm basically a performance
• 29:38
  coach and speaker. What I, if I was to tell you
• 29:42
  what I'm doing right now, I actually have this new way of
• 29:44
  phrasing and I call myself a spriter like the drink Sprite,
• 29:49
  but it has nothing to do with it.
• 29:50
  It's a spriter is a speaker writer.
• 29:53
  So that's basically all I do these days is I write books and
• 29:56
  I speak. So I travel the world, sharing
• 29:59
  my paradigms and, you know, different ways of looking at
• 30:02
  things so that people can get the most out of life, the most
• 30:06
  out of their, their job, the most out of their network.
• 30:11
  And yeah, my latest books are the four CS, but I've written
• 30:14
  that these are this, it'd be a total of now 7 books.
• 30:17
  And so I coach individuals and I also work with corporations and
• 30:22
  companies to help and organisations to help them Max
• 30:26
  their ROI by signalling the four CS, by overcoming their fears,
• 30:30
  etcetera. That's good because they're
• 30:32
  doing wonderful job. How can people get in touch with
• 30:35
  you then? Yeah, I think the easiest way
• 30:38
  would be my website and that's Doctor OD, just like my first
• 30:42
  name. So DROU di.com.
• 30:46
  OK, that's good to know. So I mean, I'm fascinated at the
• 30:50
  conversation we had at the time just fly by.
• 30:53
  And it was a very wonderful conversation and grateful to you
• 30:58
  for sharing your wisdom and thank you for your time as well.
• 31:01
  And yours it was. It was awesome being here.
• 31:03
  Appreciate it. Thank you.
• 31:04
  Thanks. Thank you for joining us on the
• 31:07
  Fit for Privacy podcast. We hope you found today's
• 31:10
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• 31:12
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