Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 140. Freedom In Finding A Church - Part 2 - Church Membership

Transcript

140. Freedom In Finding A Church - Part 2 - Church Membership · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:04
Welcome back to the For Freedom podcast.
0:06
We are excited to have you here today.
0:08
And Brett, man, it's crazy to think that we are 140 episodes
0:14
in today. 140 is the number for today, which is crazy to think
0:21
that we are that far. Man, we have been recording for
0:26
many years now and recently had you jump on the podcast with us
0:31
and man, it's been, it's been great.
0:33
How many how many episodes have you been on?
0:35
Let me let me look back here as we're talking.
0:38
You came on in episode 115. 1:15.
0:46
So 115 is when you came on and now we're in episode 140.
0:51
So what's that? 2025 episodes, is that right?
0:53
Sounds right to me. Yeah, 25 episodes in the
0:57
recording in the hot seat. And man, it's been great.
1:01
At the time of this recording, we are, when it comes out, we're
1:05
going to be in Nicaragua and we're going to be there with Mr.
1:10
Lee and our two teams from our churches.
1:12
And man, I'm pumped about it. I can't wait, can't wait to be
1:16
there. And I will be giving some
1:18
updates after the trip about some things on the podcast about
1:22
what Lord's been working with us on.
1:23
And but man, we are pumped about going.
1:26
This will be my 123456 times out of the country.
1:34
So man, I am excited. I know this is your first time
1:37
on a mission trip out of the country.
1:38
You've been to Israel, but this will be your first time out of
1:42
the country. So man, talk to me about what
1:45
you're exciting and what you're feeling.
1:47
I'll tell you what, it's been a crazy, crazy week trying to get
1:50
everything together to get ready to go out of the country.
1:55
You know, you got to go to the bank and you got to get fresh
1:57
bills and you got. Some You got me some fresh
2:00
bills. Oh yeah, I got you.
2:02
I figured. I figured, man.
2:03
You big time senior pastor. And then I got to go.
2:06
I got to go buy some new luggage because I tell you what, when I
2:09
went to Israel, I carried that duffel bag and I ain't doing
2:12
that no more. So we're going to luggage with
2:15
some wheels on it and man, I'm looking forward to it.
2:18
It almost seems like the trip would never get here.
2:21
We've been planning for so long and I know you've been planning
2:24
this trip a lot longer than I have.
2:27
You've been waiting for many years to go on this trip and so
2:31
we're excited about it. We had a little meeting last
2:34
night at the church with our group.
2:36
We're just doing some last minute planning, getting our
2:40
hotels for the airport and figuring out who's driving,
2:44
who's staying with who and you know, all the little details you
2:48
got to get worked out to do this stuff.
2:50
So we're excited about it. We can't wait.
2:53
We're looking forward to it. And this time next week, we're
2:56
going to be sipping that Nicaraguan coffee, I guess,
3:00
down. Oh man, I can't wait.
3:01
It's going to be so good. And yeah I've been planning this
3:04
trip since pre COVID. Right after COVID we were trying
3:07
to plan it and then didn't work out.
3:10
It fell through and then church transitions.
3:12
And so now it's it's finally coming around me and me and Lee
3:16
come a funny story about Lee Brett.
3:18
He he came to our church to meet our mission team.
3:22
And he calls me and he goes, hey, man, I'm at your church,
3:27
but I don't see you anywhere. And I'm like, OK, like I'm, I'm
3:32
here. I see like where you at?
3:33
He's like I'm in the sanctuary. So I walk in the sanctuary.
3:36
I couldn't find him. I said, Lee, where where are you
3:38
at? He said, I'm at Sulphur Springs
3:40
Baptist Church in Rutherfordton. He was in like 14 counties over
3:46
and he was like an hour and a half away.
3:48
He was at a different church an hour and a half away, same name.
3:51
And he was like, dude, I should have asked like what town you're
3:54
from? I just typed in Sulphur Springs
3:56
Baptist Church and the first one that came up is when I went to
3:58
and I'm like, well, I service, he shows up at the end of the
4:03
service to meet our team and we're like right in the middle
4:06
of eating pizza and he comes in and I'm like, hey, welcome to
4:09
church. That was our, our first, first
4:13
initial meeting of each other and we had a great time.
4:16
And we are so pumped about going and being down there.
4:20
And I know you are as well. And then we'll be having our,
4:25
our meet up coming up here soon. Got the big news from, from JC
4:30
about they're moving into a new building.
4:33
I'm assuming that the meet up will be in that new building at
4:36
Catoosa or Chattanooga or Ringgold, wherever.
4:40
So hey, so now you don't have to try to pronounce Fort Oglethorpe
4:43
anymore. Yeah, I don't have to try to
4:45
pronounce Fordo anymore. And I can just say Ringgold, and
4:48
that's going to be good. It's exciting for him.
4:51
You know, anytime a church can go and, and this will be a topic
4:55
we're going to talk about at the end of this series from 2
4:58
services to one just to create more unity, I believe is better.
5:03
And, and so I'm excited about him being able to do that,
5:06
having more room for his children's ministry.
5:09
And so man, we are pumped about seeing that going on and Lord's
5:12
just blessing over there. And I love being able to just
5:15
defend the flame and excited about what God's doing with him.
5:19
Amen. Yeah, I'm excited about it.
5:21
I saw that post on Facebook and went and look and, you know, as
5:25
soon as I seen it, I went and I got the address and I went and
5:28
Google Earthed it. That's what I like to do, Google
5:31
Street View. And so I Google Earthed his, you
5:34
know, his new building. And man, it looks big.
5:38
It's gonna have plenty of room and I'm so happy for him.
5:41
Yeah, me too. Me too.
5:43
And then as of right now, we're still planning on our Israel
5:46
trip coming up in the February March of next year.
5:50
And so that's right around the corner.
5:51
If you're interested in that, that information's on our
5:53
website and you can find out more information about that.
5:59
Brett, anything else, anything exciting going on in your life?
6:01
You're, you're back in school, man.
6:03
You're, you're. Yeah, I guess this is my second
6:06
week of classes, going to New Orleans Baptist Theological
6:10
Seminary, working on my master's.
6:12
And so we are, you know, I got ChatGPT right in my essays and
6:18
my hey. Man.
6:19
So you know, using technology to my advantage and so no is.
6:24
That is that allowed? Can you do ChatGPT directory
6:26
essays? That's a negatory.
6:29
Well, here's the thing you it, it all needs to be original
6:34
work. But you can use chat and they
6:37
told me this. You can use chat BT ChatGPT like
6:41
check your grammar, check your punctuation.
6:44
You know that is extremely helpful.
6:47
That's good. I don't know.
6:49
But you can. But you know, you, you write it
6:51
all original yourself. And you can use ChatGPT to, you
6:54
know, double check all your punctuation because I'm always
6:57
unsure of where to put the commas and that always gets me.
7:02
Well, and for me, you know, I'm horrible at that as well.
7:06
And I used ChatGPT the other day for something that I needed.
7:10
I couldn't figure out something. And so I just put in like what
7:13
my what my thought was and it came up with it.
7:15
I thought it was really cool. But my website guy for our
7:18
church website, pgbcronda.com, he built our website with
7:24
ChatGPT and he uses AI and ChatGPT every single day of his
7:28
life because he's a coder and an engineer and for website design
7:33
and IT, and he said it cuts his time in half of having to find a
7:38
code and having to put something in.
7:40
He said he has it up and he'll type in, I need this code for
7:44
this scenario and it'll pop it up and he'll put it in the
7:47
website design. But when you go to our website,
7:51
although I went to him, I was like, dude, you're like a
7:53
wordsmith. Your, your, your verbiage on our
7:56
website is incredible. And he said, well, what I did
8:00
was he said, I created a ChatGPT flow for the website and I put
8:05
in like some words that we would want to use nestled into the
8:09
community, you know, some, some really cool verbiage.
8:12
And so every time I would go to a new page, I would just say, I
8:15
need a intro for the pastors page.
8:17
And he put my, my stuff in my, my gist of what it was.
8:21
And then it reworked my info with this new verbiage.
8:25
Dude, it was incredible to be able to watch and to see how he
8:28
was doing it, but I was so impressed.
8:31
It was awesome. Oh, yeah, it's, it really is a,
8:34
it really is a good tool. And like that, you know, I was a
8:37
Professor Hawk the other day and he said, listen, you, you can't
8:42
use ChatGPT to write your reports and, and, and write
8:46
your, you know, your essays and your research papers.
8:50
But if you don't use, but if you don't use ChatGPT at all, you're
8:54
going to get left behind. If you need to use it for
8:57
research, if you need to find resources, if you need to use it
9:01
to check your grammar, your punctuation, do it because you
9:05
know the way the world is now. If you don't use it at all,
9:09
you're going to get left in the dust.
9:10
Yeah, that's great. That's great.
9:13
Well, excited about that. Been praying for you for that
9:16
and excited about you getting your doctorate.
9:18
Is that right or Master's? Master.
9:20
'S master's been praying for that and.
9:22
After that, we'll talk to Marcus Merritt about the doctor.
9:25
That's right, that's right. Get it from old Luther Rice.
9:28
Luther Rice. So hey man, excited about that?
9:30
Well, let's get this show started.
9:34
I do not mean to be mean. I do mean to be mad.
9:39
Those that criticize this kind of preaching.
9:41
They don't like a thorn. If you ain't got the King James,
9:45
you ain't got, hey, you don't have a King James, you don't
9:48
have a Bible. I'll be surprised, son.
9:53
Don't go to sleep while I'm talking.
9:55
Hey, hey, hey. Don't, don't.
9:56
Don't You lay your head back. I'm.
9:58
I'm important. I'm somebody.
10:00
I love you. You know I love you.
10:02
And I convinced you I love you. Yeah.
10:04
You better. You better nod your head.
10:05
Yeah. Sorry.
10:06
Come on, pull it out there. All right?
10:08
You stay awake and you listen to me.
10:13
I still believe if you're cold in hell.
10:15
You bragging my family for a woman.
10:16
I'm a preacher. When you got dressed today, you
10:30
dressed deity. This is the Four Freedom
10:36
Podcast, a podcast that is part of the RFP Network that seeks to
10:41
bring freedom in Christ from the spiritual abuse of legalism.
10:53
And so fundamentalism is designed to unpack the idea of
10:57
authority from Scripture. The problem with that is that
10:59
that's not the defining principle in Scripture.
11:02
It is a part of Scripture. But the defining principle in
11:04
Scripture is love. I found my freedom.
11:37
I found a joy I can't lose. And thank God it's true.
11:43
You wrapped your arms around me and heaven broke through from
11:48
the moment she found me. I found my freedom in it.
11:55
Welcome to the Four Freedom Podcast.
11:57
This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for
12:01
everyday Christians with everyday issues.
12:04
Now here are your hosts, James Seyfried and Brett Moore.
12:11
Welcome back to everyone. We are excited to have you here
12:15
very much enjoy that mashup intro.
12:17
We're still tweaking it a little bit and trying to make it the
12:20
best we can and excited about this series that we're in right
12:24
now. Freedom on how to find a church.
12:28
Oftentimes when we begin to start over and we begin to
12:32
figure out life, part of this is just trying to figure out what
12:37
we do and how we can find a church.
12:39
And so last week we we started out with just what is the
12:43
church? And we began that as our part
12:45
one. Today we're going to look at
12:47
membership and, and how do we define church membership?
12:50
And Bret's going to give us an opening story.
12:52
But before we do that, we're going to play a couple of sermon
12:55
clips that we've pulled off to help us define what maybe we
12:59
have heard in the past about membership.
13:05
But with all prepare me also a lodging.
13:09
I wrote down this. I said the refreshing servant is
13:15
a generous servant. He's caring for his pastors
13:18
physical needs. He's generous.
13:21
Nothing encourages me more, and I'm I'm not saying this to be
13:24
self-serving or dropping hints because I want.
13:27
This. But it's so encouraging when I
13:30
will show up somewhere and somebody has just gotten there
13:33
with a Starbucks. That's always encouraging to me.
13:37
I, I, I don't know if they think they're getting brownie points,
13:40
but they are. They are if if they're doing it
13:47
because they love their pastor, that's that's refreshing and
13:50
nothing's. Listen, if if you're wise people
13:55
that are going to sit back and be bitter all the time and be
13:58
mad because this kind of sermons preach and you got convicted and
14:02
and listen, it's not going to surprise you.
14:03
You're not going to ever want to do anything for your pastor.
14:06
You're not going to want to do anything for him.
14:08
It's not going to be something like in the middle of the day,
14:10
you think I'm going to go get my pastor a sweet tea or a or, or
14:13
I'm just going to stop in and see him or I'm going to I'm
14:16
going to do something encourage him physically.
14:18
I'm going to I'm going to go by and see if his lawn needs mowed.
14:22
Thank you. Mowed my lawn today.
14:27
I know what you're thinking. Oh, man, what's he thinking?
14:29
This guy's a slave. That's exactly how finally even
14:32
thought when he got the letter from Paul was he's got that kind
14:34
of a slave. No, Paul just said, hey, I'm
14:41
coming. Take care of me.
14:44
Just just just take care of me. That's refreshing.
14:48
And I'm preaching this from the standpoint of trying to help you
14:51
to be the best Christian, the best church member.
14:56
Do you want to just sit like a bump on the log and not be
14:59
productive? Or would you like, would you
15:01
like to be part of something that's exciting?
15:05
Does it to say that you had your hands on it, that you were part
15:07
of it? When listen, when Philemon left
15:12
this world and went to heaven, I guarantee you God said, Hey,
15:15
Onessimus is really doing something for me.
15:18
And if it if you wouldn't have taken him in, he would have
15:21
never done anything. Brett, give us your thoughts,
15:26
man, Dude. Talk about toot your own horn.
15:31
Just nonsense bro. Just no scripture, no Jesus
15:37
self-serve and put me on a pedestal.
15:41
You know ministry is is getting the pastor Starbucks.
15:45
You know this is just not what ministry is.
15:49
This is what not what church membership is.
15:52
It's not what being a part of a church means is to serve the
15:56
pastor. And I don't know what passage
15:58
he's preaching from. He's not preaching from any
16:01
passage. It's just a bunch of like
16:04
self-serving nonsense to me. And though I don't know.
16:08
Oh, Bill Reed for the win there. Yeah, you know, this is do I do
16:14
I as a pastor, enjoy when someone buys me a coffee or
16:20
gives me a gift card on pastor appreciation, Man, it's it's
16:23
great. It's a blessing.
16:23
It's a blessing to our family. I tell them often I'd rather you
16:27
do something for my kids that they they bear the brunt and my
16:30
wife, they bear the brunt of, of ministry more than I do.
16:34
Like they they miss their dad and things they miss their their
16:37
husband and things because he's doing ministry.
16:40
And so I'd really spoil them than me.
16:42
But I had a pastor once and he would walk into, he was a former
16:47
pastor of church. He was never my pastor, but we
16:49
spent a lot of time together, mentored me and help me.
16:52
But there was a story that he would walk into a restaurant and
16:56
he'd look around and say, all right, who's buying the pastor's
16:59
meal today? And that was his attitude when
17:02
he walked in like I shouldn't be buying my meal today.
17:06
And I always thought it was the worst thing.
17:07
I always, and even when like I'm at a restaurant and, and the
17:12
waiter will come up and I'll say, Hey, I need the bill and
17:14
they'll say, well, someone's already took care of it.
17:16
I'm humbled And I'm, I want to know who did it because I want
17:20
to thank them. I want to properly, you know,
17:21
give them appreciation. But oftentimes that'll happen.
17:25
And, and, and I feel like I'm just so unworthy for that to
17:28
happen. Like it's not like I go in
17:30
expecting it. And this is man, it's, it's, I'm
17:34
your pastor, man, come on. I expect this.
17:36
I'm somebody, as our eclipse says, I'm somebody.
17:40
I'm somebody like, I expect this.
17:42
And that is not what church membership is.
17:44
That's not what a pastor is, this mentality.
17:48
Now I have a philosophy and I've had it for a long time that
17:53
because I used to try to refuse gifts, people try to give me
17:56
something and I would deny it and, and somebody told me one
18:01
time you shouldn't do that because you're denying that
18:03
person a blessing. And I agree with that.
18:07
And so if somebody tries to give me something, I might say
18:10
something to the effect of, oh, you didn't have to do that or
18:13
whatnot, but I will accept it. But I don't expect just because
18:18
I'm a pastor that I'm going to do that all the time.
18:21
Yes, I'll go into restaurants and people will, you know, pay
18:26
for our meals, but then I'll turn around and I'll pay for
18:29
somebody else's meal too, and not just expect to, you know, be
18:33
catered to the time. And it's, it's, you know, it's
18:39
not that we're all supposed to help and care for each other and
18:43
not just stand up behind a pulpit and preach, you know, you
18:46
need to buy the buy the pastor's Starbucks all the time, you
18:50
know? Yeah, absolutely.
18:53
I agree with that. I agree with that 100%.
18:55
Well, let's listen to what the great Bob Gray has to say about
18:59
this. I would no more believe an ex
19:02
fundamentalist than I would an ex church member, an ex staff
19:05
member or an ex-wife. You can, you can you kind of
19:09
cope with all these new fame dangled truths and, and nobody's
19:12
ever heard of before us because they're not truth.
19:16
Don't feel like you've got to be something new that nobody's ever
19:19
heard of before you get yourself in trouble.
19:23
Bob Gray, Senior There you go. There you have it.
19:26
Ex-wife F Church member, ex fundamentalist so.
19:30
It's just a scorched earth type mentality.
19:34
You oh, if you leave my church, if you go somewhere else, you're
19:39
automatically out of the will of God.
19:41
You're automatically a reprobate if you if you're an ex church
19:46
member, if you leave my church and go somewhere else.
19:48
Just a scorched earth type mentality that I don't buy into
19:53
it all. Look, God, God moves people, you
19:56
know, and just because somebody leaves your church and goes to
19:59
another church doesn't mean that they're on a different team and
20:03
they're or they're against you. You know, there might be
20:05
something that caused it, but God might have just moved them.
20:08
I had a family the other day that.
20:10
That that moved their membership and there was no hard feelings.
20:15
It was just God's will. You know you.
20:17
Didn't excommunicate them. No, I, I, you know, they, they,
20:21
they, they bought me a Starbucks.
20:22
And so I didn't, I didn't have to do that.
20:25
So that's right. But but yeah, so this scorched
20:28
earth, you know, mentality, if you leave, we're going to have
20:31
to throw you under the bus. We're going to have to talk bad
20:34
about you. And you know, I just don't buy
20:37
into it. Yeah, I've got a someone that
20:39
actually teaches with my wife and she was in we would call it
20:45
a cult. They didn't call themselves a
20:47
cult. I know exactly the church they
20:48
went to. Everyone was was homeschooled,
20:52
nothing against homeschooled, but if you weren't homeschooled,
20:55
you were against you were living for the devil.
20:57
Whether it was even a Christian School, you you couldn't do
21:00
that. She was in this isolated
21:02
mentality where she, man, she couldn't do anything outside of
21:08
this community and it was very much oppressive.
21:11
And so she got a job at the Christian School where kids are
21:14
going to the Christian School. And she told my wife, she said,
21:17
I feel like there's just a breath of fresh air.
21:19
She said, But the sad part is I went to that church for eight or
21:22
ten years and she said, I'll see those people in Walmart and I'll
21:26
go to say hey to them because they were my friends that we, we
21:29
ministered together, we did things together.
21:31
And she said they'll turn their face toward me, away from me and
21:35
go in the opposite direction and won't even talk to me because I
21:38
left the church. And I'm thinking, you know, how
21:41
sad of a Christian do you have to be that you won't even talk
21:44
to someone in public because they they're not part of your
21:46
church anymore. Like I'll go through Walmart
21:50
still. My Fridays are my Walmart day
21:52
when I go and get stuff and I'll see old church members and man,
21:55
I'll stop and hang out and talk to them, give them hugs.
21:57
They'll tell me how much they love me.
21:59
Like if, if that's not what loving one another is, then
22:05
this, this whole mentality of if you're not part of our flock,
22:07
you're done. You're, you're dead to me.
22:09
The the Mr. Wonderful mentality is got to got to change
22:14
drastically. You know it's not, and it's not
22:17
just IFB that's guilty of this, but if if anybody's ever
22:21
listened to the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, part of Mark
22:24
Driscoll's philosophy of ministry was scorched Earth.
22:30
If. You left the church if you were
22:32
a staff member, you couldn't just quit and go get another
22:36
job. You couldn't quit that.
22:38
You couldn't quit the job working at the church and then
22:42
stay a member without people shunning you without right,
22:47
without signing Ndas and non compete clauses.
22:50
And and you know, you can't start a church in this city for
22:54
a year after you leave here and just just turning, turning
22:58
people, turning their backs on people.
23:00
And so, yeah, I, I just don't buy into that at all.
23:05
Even if we're not part of the same local church, we're all
23:09
part of the same universal church.
23:13
And so we're all part, we're all part of the pride of Christ.
23:17
Yeah, fun thing, Brett. I went back into what's called
23:19
the Wayback Machine and I pulled out the original Rise and Fall
23:24
intro with Mark Driscoll's statements in there with the
23:27
King Kaleidoscope Sticks and Stones, because they scrubbed it
23:31
from all their podcast episodes and they took out him speaking
23:35
inside of there. So if you listen, yeah, King
23:39
Kaleidoscope was was a little upset that they used Mark
23:42
Driscoll in the song and they've sort of became identified.
23:45
Even though they came out of Mark Driscoll, they didn't hold
23:47
episode on it about how they didn't want it on there.
23:49
So they went back and they took it out.
23:51
So I had to go back in the Wayback Machine and pull out one
23:55
of those old original episodes that was still on the Internet.
23:59
Just goes to prove you can't get rid of anything on the Internet.
24:02
And I pulled it out and I've got the original intro.
24:05
Do you mean to play it for you real quick, just for old times?
24:07
Good do it. Let's play it real quick.
24:10
Heavy day. Why are we not looking at the
24:18
deep seated reasons for this? Mark just came and said if you
24:25
plant a church, he's going to tear it down brick by brick.
24:31
We have a. Culture of church members who
24:33
would prefer a narcissist. Leading a church?
24:35
How dare you? Who in the hell do you think you
24:43
are? There's very real chronic trauma
24:48
that comes from serving within systems like this.
24:53
There's a few guys, but if I wasn't going to end up on Cnni
24:56
would go Old Testament on them. You know a lot of pastors get
25:02
fired. Driscoll got fired for being an
25:04
asshole. Who do you think you are from
25:16
Christianity Today? This is Mike Kosper, and you're
25:19
listening to The Rise and Fall of Marceau.
25:21
It's the story of one church that grew from a handful of
25:24
people to a movement and then collapsed almost overnight.
25:29
It's a story about power, fame, and spiritual trauma problems
25:33
faced across the spectrum of churches in America.
25:37
And yet it's also a story about the mystery of God working in
25:41
broken places. Listen, I can listen to Mike
25:45
Cosper speak for hours and hours.
25:48
Dude, I love his voice. I've listened to several of his
25:51
other episodes he does on Christianity Today.
25:54
It's a great thing, but. Hear what he's sitting there, he
25:57
said. If you plant a church, we'll
25:59
tear it down brick by brick. Because it was all about what
26:02
his church was doing. And that is the mentality of
26:06
today. That's the mentality of what
26:08
we're living in and what we're producing and the culture of
26:11
church people that we are producing in this mega church
26:16
movement that we're going to talk about a little bit next
26:18
week or next time we we next episode.
26:20
We do, but we want to play one more clip by Bill Reeves.
26:23
The great Bill Reeves here on membership.
26:26
This is probably my favorite one of all of them that you sent me,
26:29
Brett. I watched some of my church
26:31
members on the parade route. They're sitting on the side and
26:35
the way they were dressed, I couldn't tell.
26:37
There's no way anybody would have known they were church
26:39
members here, so that's not important.
26:43
If they can't tell you're a church member here, they did
26:45
sure can't tell you're a Christian there.
26:48
Amen. One good sign that you're a
26:51
Christian is you don't dress like the world, you don't talk
26:53
like the world, you don't walk like the world, you don't act
26:55
like the world, you don't listen to the world's kind of music.
26:58
That's a good that pretty much sticks out, doesn't it?
27:05
I guarantee you it's harder for them to tell that you're
27:08
different if you're just just like them.
27:11
If you got the same dress standards 30 years ago, the men
27:16
of the church would have been standing up, raising their
27:19
Bible, saying glory to God. We got a preacher of the word of
27:23
God. He's willing to take a stand
27:25
against the sin of this world. And today I sit in the church
27:28
that I pastor and I'm looking at people under conviction because
27:32
they know they've gone to a place in their life where they
27:35
say that's that's enough, That's not loving, that's not kind.
27:37
And I'm here to tell your friend that is a lie that is not true.
27:46
Well, there you have it. If you don't look like a church
27:49
member, then you're not a church member.
27:52
You got to look right. You got to talk right.
27:53
You got to act right. Even heard it today.
27:56
I was at the middle school and we were joking around and one of
28:00
the guys who was a Christian, he had tattoos all down his arm.
28:02
Brett, he had the Jerusalem cross tattoo that he got an
28:05
Elkin. He didn't even have to go to
28:07
Israel. I'm like, dude, I may have to go
28:08
down to Elkin and get it. But he got to talking and he
28:12
said, one of the, one of the church members was, was saying
28:16
something and she was joking. And he goes, look at this, you
28:19
got one of your church members over here lying.
28:20
And I said, well, you know, what can I do with them?
28:22
He said, all we can do is catch them and let the Lord clean them
28:25
up and walked away. But I thought it was so good
28:29
because I knew what we were talking about today.
28:31
And I thought, man, that's, that's so good.
28:32
It's, it's not our job to, to convict.
28:35
It's not our job to change. It's our job just to catch them
28:38
and let the Lord take care of the rest and let the Lord
28:41
convict them how He sees fit. You know, when I say this all
28:45
the time, when we're to be when the Bible says we're to be
28:49
separate from the world, it means we're to be separate from
28:52
the world sin. You know, I, I, I want to read a
28:55
passage of Scripture right now and I wonder if Bill Reeves how
28:59
this passage fits into that philosophy that he just that he
29:02
has. First Corinthians 9 verse 19
29:06
says, though I am free and belong to no one, I've made
29:10
myself a slave to everyone to win as many as possible to the
29:15
Jews, I became like a Jew to win the Jews to those under the law.
29:20
I became like one under the law, though I myself am not under the
29:24
law, so as to win those under the law to those not having the
29:29
law. I became like one not having the
29:32
law, though I am not free from God's law, but am under Christ's
29:37
law so as to win those not having the law to the weak.
29:41
I became weak to win the week. I became all things to all
29:47
people so that by all means I might save some.
29:50
I do this for the sake of the gospel that I that I may share
29:55
in its blessings. You listen, you want to reach
29:58
people, you've got to talk. I'm not talking about like
30:02
filthy language, but you got to talk with them.
30:05
You got to dress like them. You want to reach farmers, you
30:08
got to dress like a farmer. You want to reach businessmen,
30:11
You got to dress like a businessman have to whoever
30:14
you're trying to reach, you have to culturally identify with that
30:20
person without sinning. So you're to be separate from
30:25
the world sin. And so it's just something that,
30:29
you know, that that really gets under my skin.
30:32
Yeah. And you know, Brett, by saying
30:34
that it reminded me of a of a illustration that Paul Chappell
30:38
said a couple years ago, Like him or not, he's a pastor out in
30:41
California, does a lot of good things, does a lot of bad
30:45
things, has had some different things in the church.
30:48
But he made this illustration. I was at a pastors leadership
30:50
conference and he said that he was knocking on a guy's door
30:56
really hard elder in the community, not a part of the
31:00
church or anything. And he went to the door and his,
31:03
you know, slacks and polo. However, he dressed for his
31:05
visitation and someone said so and so you need to go down and
31:09
talk to so. And so he's, you know, we need,
31:11
he should be in church. You know, he should.
31:13
He's hard. He's he's against all religion.
31:15
And he said, I went down there and I began talking to him and
31:18
he said, listen, man, I don't have the time to talk to you at
31:21
all. He said, I'm working on my
31:23
garden and I'm working my garden.
31:26
And he said, well, do you need any help?
31:28
And he said, I mean, if you want to, but you're dressed all nice.
31:31
You got your suit pants on and you got your dress shoes on.
31:34
And he said, Paul Chapel said, I went down into his garden with
31:36
him and I helped plow his garden for 30 minutes with him.
31:40
And he said the guy stopped and looked at me and said, are you
31:42
hungry? He said, I mean, a little bit.
31:45
And he said he reached over and pulled an onion off of the
31:48
branch there and just started gnawing on the onion and just
31:51
eating it and tossed him one. I was like, here you go, pastor,
31:55
here's your lunch. Thanks for helping me.
31:58
And he said, I realized at that point, I'm not a big onion guy,
32:01
but if I don't eat this onion, he's not going to talk to me one
32:04
bit anymore. He said, so I peeled the the
32:07
skin off and I took a big bite of it.
32:09
It was a sweet by Del Young. It wasn't bad at all.
32:12
And got to sitting there and just chewing and talking.
32:14
And he said, well, he said, why'd you come out here today?
32:17
He said, I shared the gospel with him and now he's one of my
32:19
deacons in my church. He said, all because I got down
32:22
in the mud with him and I plowed his garden a little bit and I
32:26
got off my high horse and began serving him.
32:29
And I said, so often that's where we need to be.
32:31
We need to be willing to serve others so that they can come to
32:34
hear the gospel and not just be on our high horse and say, well,
32:37
bless God, you're going to do this for me.
32:39
And I think this is where we get to the side of bearing one
32:44
another's burdens, loving one another, being all things to all
32:47
men, that I might reach some. We get this mixed up massively.
32:53
Now, James, I want to switch gears for just a minute if I
32:56
could, because listen, I want to talk about inventions.
33:00
There have been many great inventions over the years.
33:04
I mean, you look back, you can look back at the wheel, the
33:07
light bulb, radio, television, you know, fast food started with
33:11
the invention of McDonald's. But probably the greatest
33:15
invention known to man. And I don't know if you know
33:17
this or not, it's Sam's Club. Sam's Club, the greatest
33:21
invention. I don't care what anybody says,
33:23
Sam's Club is the only place in the world where you can get your
33:27
tires rotated, your eyes checked, buy a swimming pool,
33:31
and then buy a VAT of sour cream big enough to feel said swimming
33:37
pool. Listen, when I go into a store,
33:40
I don't want one that one pack of Mac and cheese.
33:42
I don't want 3 packs of Mac and cheese.
33:44
I want a big box of 18 of them jokers.
33:48
I want a bottle of ketchup bigger than my dog.
33:51
And the only place you can get that is Sam's Club.
33:55
I mean, God Bless America. I mean, when you pull up into
33:58
the parking lot of a Sam's Club, you can hear the Eagles
34:02
screeching. They're playing the national
34:04
anthem off in the distance. I mean, there truly is nothing
34:08
more American. But here's the thing.
34:11
In order to go to Sam's Club, you have to be a member.
34:15
You have to have a membership card.
34:18
Look, Sam's Club is a beautiful, glorious, wondrous thing, OK?
34:24
If the Lord tarries, one day in the future, archaeologists and
34:27
anthropologists will study the phenomenon that was Sam's Club.
34:32
But if you're not a member, you can't go now.
34:35
As great as being a member of Sam's Club is, being a member of
34:39
a church is not like being a member of Sam's Club.
34:43
And though it's not OK at first, I have, we have Verizon for our
34:47
phones. Couple of months ago, all the
34:50
AT&T customers, they all went down.
34:53
We still had service on our phones because we were because
34:57
we had Verizon. So we have a subscription with
35:00
them for phone service. So is being a member of a church
35:04
like subscribing to Verizon? No, because the church is not a
35:09
club, nor is the church a spiritual service provider.
35:14
But too many Christians today treat it like it is, but it's
35:18
not. A lot of Christians today don't
35:20
think that church membership is important either because, number
35:24
one, they don't go that often or #2 they're not a member of the
35:27
church they're attending. But so it's not important to
35:31
them. But church membership is
35:35
important. And we're going to talk a few
35:38
minutes today about church membership.
35:40
Absolutely. And if you were here last week
35:42
and you tuned in, if not Paul's, listen, last week we discussed
35:46
defining the church and what the church look like.
35:50
That needs to be the starting point because as you know,
35:53
before you build anything in a construction, you must have a
35:55
good foundation. And so if we don't understand
35:58
the foundation of the church and what it's designed for, then
36:02
everything else will fall apart. And so one of the things we
36:04
noticed from this biblical narrative is that God had
36:07
intended to have a created people for himself that would
36:11
display his glory. We noted last week from
36:14
Ephesians 310 that the church is not an option, but it's the
36:18
central part of the plan to display God's glory.
36:23
So the question we have to ask today, what happens and what is
36:27
the biblical definition of narrative of church membership?
36:31
Because how do we understand from Scripture what church
36:34
membership is and how do we understand when we begin to
36:38
represent his name in an in just way?
36:42
And so First Corinthians 5 is where we'll look at today.
36:44
First Corinthians five, one through 7, and it says this.
36:47
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among
36:51
you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among the pagans.
36:55
For a man has his father's wife. Are you arrogant?
36:59
Ought not to rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be
37:02
removed from among you. For though absent in the body, I
37:06
am present with you in spirit, and as if I'm present, I have
37:09
already pronounced judgement on the one who did such a thing.
37:14
When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus, and my
37:16
spirit is present with the power of our Lord, you are delivered
37:20
from this man to Satan for his destruction of the flesh, so
37:24
that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
37:27
Your boasting is not good. And do you not know that a
37:31
little leaven leavens the whole lump?
37:32
Cleanse out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump as
37:37
you already, as you are really are unleavened for Christ.
37:41
Our Passover lamb has been sacrificed.
37:44
So, Brett, what's going on in this passage here?
37:47
What? What's the process of what's
37:48
happening here? So what we have here is we have
37:52
a man is sleeping with his father's wife and the
37:55
congregation is actually tolerating it.
37:59
They're they're looking the other way.
38:00
They're putting it in the corner.
38:02
They're sweeping it under the rug.
38:05
So Paul calls from the church to remove it and to hand him over
38:09
to Satan, not for the ultimate goal of his destruction, but for
38:15
his restoration. Which brings up one of my things
38:18
that I've always said is, is I actually don't like calling it
38:22
church discipline, even though that's what it is.
38:26
You know, because the goal, the end goal of the process is not
38:30
to discipline the person. And that be the end of it.
38:33
The end goal of it is to restore the person.
38:37
So instead of calling it church discipline, one of the things I
38:39
like to say is we call it church restoration because the end goal
38:44
is we want to restore that person.
38:47
But the the question still comes up and it's so the situation
38:51
happens. So it begs the question, remove
38:55
him from what? OK, what are we?
38:58
What are we removing him from? Well, that's what we need to
39:02
clarify. I mean, the answer I think we'll
39:05
find is church membership. That's what we're removing him
39:10
from. But again, we need to listen to
39:13
what Scripture teaches on this rather than the ideas of man.
39:19
So the church represents heaven. So we look at Matthew 16.
39:24
In the first part of the chapter we find Jesus warning the
39:29
apostles not to trust the teaching of Israel's leaders.
39:34
They were self-righteous and so missed Jesus.
39:38
Their proud self-reliance blinded them from seeing Jesus
39:43
for who he really is. So Jesus then turns to Peter and
39:48
says in Matthew 1615, Who do you say that I am?
39:52
Simon Peter answers, You are the Christ, the Son of the living
39:57
God. And Jesus affirms Peter's answer
40:00
and then says, And I tell you, you are Peter.
40:05
On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell
40:09
shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the
40:13
Kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall
40:16
be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be
40:20
loosed in heaven. OK, so this is the first of two
40:24
times. That Jesus talks about the
40:27
church and the Gospels and notice he he connects the church
40:32
to the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
40:35
Now last week we talked about the Kingdom of heaven or the
40:38
Kingdom of God is God's people and God's place under God's
40:43
rule. So what's the connection between
40:45
the Kingdom of heaven that Jesus talks about verse 19 and the
40:50
church in verse 18? Well, the church is meant to
40:54
display on earth who he is and who isn't in the Kingdom of
41:01
heaven. Specifically, when Jesus talks
41:04
to Peter, he's interested in what in a who and what is right
41:11
confession and who is a right confessor.
41:15
OK. What do you think about it,
41:17
James? Yeah, absolutely.
41:18
And this is the the mindset of all of a sudden we have Jesus is
41:22
teaching on the church here. Jesus is saying, hey, the Old
41:26
Testament is here for the guide to show you what is going to be.
41:30
And Jesus is coming in. He's setting up this Kingdom of
41:33
God. Jesus exercises and begins to
41:36
give this authority toward Peter.
41:38
And then he goes a step further and he says Jesus begins to give
41:41
Peter and the apostles the same authority, the authority to
41:45
stand in front of the confessor and hear his or her confession
41:50
and then announce official judgment on heaven's behalf.
41:54
And so that is and isn't a right confession and it also is and
41:59
isn't a true confession. We have to understand that
42:01
whoever is holding the keys to the Kingdom of heaven has
42:05
heaven's authority, not to make Christians, but to declare what
42:11
or who is a Christian. And, and we do this through two
42:14
different ways. We do this through baptism, and
42:17
we do this through the Lord's Supper.
42:18
And so in Matthew 16, the apostles are holding the keys,
42:23
and then all of a sudden in Matthew 18, Jesus begins to put
42:26
the keys of heaven into the hands of the local church.
42:30
So look at Matthew chapter 18, verse 15.
42:32
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault
42:35
between you and him alone. And if he listens, you've gained
42:38
a brother. But if it does not listen, take
42:40
two or three along with you. And that everyone charged may be
42:43
established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
42:46
And if he refuses to listen to them, tell to it to the church.
42:50
And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be as to
42:54
unto you, like a Gentile and a tax collector.
42:56
Truly I say unto you, whatever you bind here on earth shall be
43:00
bound in heaven, and whatever you loose here on earth shall be
43:02
loosed in heaven. So when a man's confronted with
43:05
a couple of times over his sins, we see here in verse 17 it says
43:09
tell it to who? Who's he telling it to?
43:12
The church? He doesn't go to the pastor,
43:14
he's not going to a committee, he's not going to the apostles,
43:18
he's not going to a presbytery. He is going to the church.
43:22
And the final Court of Appeal is to the church.
43:25
The local church has been given the authority under heaven to
43:30
guard what has been given to the gospel.
43:33
Who and what on earth represents heaven.
43:36
They hold the keys to it, they unlock the doors to heaven, and
43:40
other words they bind and they loose in verse 18 what it says
43:43
there. So Jesus has authorized the
43:45
local church to stand in front of the confessor and to consider
43:49
the confessor's confession, to consider his or her life and
43:53
announce an official judgment on heaven's behalf.
43:57
This is the right confession. It's the true confession, just
44:00
like Jesus did to Peter exercise through baptism and the Lord's
44:04
Supper, when we exercise this in these two ways.
44:08
And so he begins to go through this spiritual symbolism of the
44:12
baptism. The baptism is a picture of the
44:15
union with Christ in both his death and resurrection.
44:19
But baptism not only symbolizes our union with Christ, but it's
44:22
the Christian way of associating him or herself with God's
44:25
people. We're baptized into the body of
44:28
Christ and then we get to the Lord's Supper.
44:32
Baptism is done one time. You don't get baptized every
44:35
single week. You don't get baptized every
44:37
day. You get baptized one time, which
44:39
brings you into this a symbol of bringing you into the family.
44:42
And then the Lord's Supper is done regularly.
44:45
It's done in in a way of displaying God's grace and says
44:49
it's, it's done in a way of reminding us what Christ has
44:52
done for us through his shed blood and through his crucified
44:55
body so that we can become part of the body of Christ again.
45:00
We can be remembered in this through the Lord's Supper.
45:03
It can be tough to remember this.
45:05
It can be tough to to always examine ourselves, to be able to
45:08
ask ourselves what is right and what is wrong.
45:11
But the glory of God is supremely important, and it's
45:14
important for the individuals because they're telling each
45:17
other the truth about our state before God rather than deceiving
45:20
or flattering. I don't have to get up and say
45:23
you should be wearing this or wearing that or doing this or
45:25
doing that. The Lord's Supper is what does
45:27
that. The Lord's Supper is what
45:29
convicts us and, and, and turns our heart back toward him.
45:33
And so baptism and the Lord's Supper are oaths of signs which
45:36
we take to one another. We profess Christ and we affirm
45:40
one another as Christian members of another church, and it's
45:44
through the baptism and Lord's Supper that we are as individual
45:48
Christians working together to constitute a local church and
45:52
its membership. And Jesus authorizes the
45:55
Christian to do this by giving us the keys.
45:59
You know this conversation. Of keys in the Word of God is
46:03
very interesting because when keys are giving, when keys are
46:07
given in the Bible, keys represent power and authority.
46:12
Jesus was given the keys to death and hell, meaning he has
46:16
power and authority over death and hell.
46:20
But here we see Jesus give the keys to Peter and when he does
46:25
that, I believe he's given the keys by extension to all the
46:29
apostles. Because the church, the early
46:32
1st century church before they had the New Testament, was built
46:36
on the apostles. So they were the foundation.
46:39
Peter didn't get the keys because he was the first Pope.
46:43
He got the keys because he was an apostle.
46:45
And by extension, all the apostles got the keys.
46:48
Those keys gave the apostles spiritual authority.
46:52
OK, the apostles were given the right to start and rule the
46:56
church, but the apostles aren't going to be with us forever.
47:00
So Jesus also gives that authority to the church also.
47:05
So the church has the church has the right to rule itself within
47:09
the confines of the local congregation.
47:13
Now you remember the definition of the local church that we
47:17
talked about last week. A local church is a group of
47:20
Christians who regularly gather in Christ's name because, you
47:25
know, the church is a fundamentally a, a gathering, a
47:29
people, not just a building to officially affirm and oversee
47:34
one another's membership in Jesus Christ in his Kingdom
47:40
through gospel preaching and gospel ordinances.
47:44
I put a Facebook on today that said, you know, fundamentally,
47:50
you know, the, the building is not the church.
47:54
The people are the church. So we don't go to church, we go
47:58
to worship because we are the church.
48:02
Now a few things are coming into a greater focus as we talk
48:06
through this. It's official because only the
48:10
church has been granted authority for the keys, not an
48:14
individual or subcommittee. It's a gathering.
48:18
But that gathering is further defined with the purpose of
48:22
affirming and overseeing each other's membership in Christ in
48:26
his Kingdom. It's through the gospel because
48:29
that's how God makes Christians, and the ordinances because
48:34
that's the church's instrument to exercise the keys.
48:39
OK, so let's ask the question, who is church membership for
48:44
now? All this talk about keys and
48:46
binding and losing it raises an important question.
48:50
What's the biblical criteria for getting in?
48:54
That's important question because what we're talking about
48:57
is more than just sitting in it's, it's a matter of eternity.
49:00
It's eternal significance. So, so it's like a Country Club
49:06
where you need to know the right people or you need to drive a
49:09
certain type of car. Is, is it, is it like that or is
49:13
it like the military where you need to be able to do a certain
49:17
number of push ups and pull ups? You know, of course I would meet
49:21
those requirements. I can do 100 pull ups with one
49:24
hand so to answer. That Let's turn.
49:28
Our attention back to the Gospel of Matthew.
49:31
Who in Matthew does Jesus make a heavenly citizen, which is to
49:35
say a member of the church? Matthew 5.
49:38
Three. Blessed are the poor in spirit,
49:41
for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.
49:43
Matthew 721. Not everyone who says to me,
49:47
Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but the one
49:50
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
49:53
Matthew 1032 everyone who acknowledges me before man men,
49:59
I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven.
50:03
Matthew 18 four, whoever humbles himself like this child is the
50:09
greatest in the Kingdom of heaven.
50:11
So these are the people whom the church is to receive, the poor
50:14
in spirit, those who follow God's will, those who
50:18
acknowledge Christ, those who humble themselves like a little
50:22
child. And, and, and we kind of see a
50:25
pattern here, OK, Christianity and therefore church membership.
50:32
It's not for the strong. It's not for those who have
50:36
their acts together. It's for broken people and who
50:39
are determined. These people are determined to
50:43
follow their own wills. They and, and do it their way.
50:47
It's for those who have tried and failed.
50:50
They tried to do it their own way, but they failed miserably
50:54
at it. So who's it for?
50:56
It's for the teenagers who had certain moral ideas, went off to
51:01
college, fell into sin. It's for mothers who've tried
51:05
really hard to be the perfect mothers and disappointed
51:08
themselves. It's for the retirees who have
51:11
reached the end of their careers and looked back and realized it
51:15
was all about me and my selfish ambitions.
51:19
And now what do I have? What?
51:21
What, what do you think about that?
51:24
Yeah, I think it's so interesting because.
51:26
One of the things you just said was they they tried, they went
51:30
off to college and they failed and realized they needed Christ.
51:33
I've got a lady that is going on our mission trip and I don't
51:35
think she'd mind me sharing this, she said.
51:38
In my teenage years, I wanted to share the love of Christ, but I
51:41
feared that pride often stood in their way.
51:43
I found myself hanging out in the wrong crowd.
51:45
I didn't stand up for my beliefs.
51:47
My family attended church all throughout my my life and in my
51:50
youth and she said I started to go to college.
51:54
I became busy with unimportant things and often made excuses
51:57
about not attending church. I grew further and further away
52:01
from Christ and when I was 22 I became an unwed mother.
52:05
Through my pregnancy, I became closer to Jesus than ever
52:07
before. I began to surround myself with
52:10
Him and walk daily with Him. My relationship with Him changed
52:14
from knowing Him and knowing about him from truly walking
52:17
every day with him. And since then, I've went
52:20
through many trials and temptations throughout my steps
52:23
following Jesus. And I think that's where it's
52:25
at. It's, it's we began to go
52:27
through this life where we think we've got it all together.
52:30
And because we were raised in church and we're pastors, kids,
52:33
or whatever it may be, we, we have this thing figured out.
52:35
But it's about those who have struggled and those who need
52:39
redemption. Christianity and and church
52:41
membership is for people who have reached the end of
52:44
themselves that that's why Matthew 912 says those who are
52:48
well need no need of a physician, but those who are
52:51
sick. I've come to call the righteous
52:54
not sinners, but sinners. I've come not to call the
52:57
righteous but but to call him the sinners, the heavenly
53:00
Father. He chose an unbelievably
53:03
humbling way to represent himself here on earth, not with
53:07
a morally perfect, but a morally broken a group of people that
53:11
were sinners that hates the facts.
53:13
They're sinners and they turn from their sin and put their
53:17
faith in the righteousness of Christ.
53:19
That's who he chose to represent him here on earth.
53:23
And we're we're here. We're created for for good.
53:26
We did bad. Christ lived humble, meek and
53:29
perfect life that we should have lived.
53:31
He died on the cross that sacrificed to pay the penalty
53:34
that we deserved for doing bad. And now he calls every single
53:38
one of us who are poor in spirit, who hungers and thirst
53:41
after righteousness, to turn away from their sin and follow
53:44
him as their savior. There's a, a diagram that we
53:49
came across. It's called the membership
53:51
triangle. And that we're going to define
53:53
this triangle. We'll, we'll put it in our show
53:55
notes if it'll let us put an image there.
53:57
But, but the triangle goes like this.
53:58
At the top of the triangle, there's elders and pastors.
54:02
And at the bottom of the triangle, there's ourselves and
54:04
the congregation. So you personally on the
54:07
congregation and so we begin to look at this.
54:10
One of the helpful ways we can relate to this is how we're
54:12
relatable to one another. The the Bible says we should
54:16
love one another. Romans 15 one, we who are strong
54:19
have obligation to bear the follings of the weak and not to
54:23
please ourselves. Romans 12/13 and 15 and 16
54:26
contrite to the needs of the Saints and show hospitality.
54:30
Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep for those who weep.
54:32
Live in harmony with one another.
54:34
We should encourage one another, we should guard one another, and
54:37
we should obey the leaders that have been placed in front of us.
54:40
And so the elders are responsible for oversight to
54:44
each individual person. And they're also, they're also
54:49
commanded to equip and shepherd the congregation.
54:52
So the elders have a responsibility, but we
54:55
ourselves, if we're looking at just us, have the opportunity to
54:59
have obedience to the elders, but then we're accountable to
55:03
the congregation. The congregation is accountable
55:06
to ourselves, but they're also there to recognize the elders
55:10
and say, Hey, we've placed these people in in authority over us.
55:14
And so the the New Testament calls us to relate to each other
55:18
within the church in a specific role in a manner.
55:21
And so Brett, what's your thoughts on on that as as we
55:24
begin to to wrap this thing up a little bit today?
55:27
I mean, I'll tell you. That I love being a member of a
55:32
church and you know, I have had some bad experience.
55:36
I've had good experiences, but my word to people would be
55:42
listen, if you've been hurt by a church, like say, so I know
55:46
people who've been hurt by a church.
55:48
So they leave that church and they find another church and
55:52
then they get hurt at that church too.
55:54
But I would encourage not to give up because one of the
55:58
greatest things about church is when you find the right church
56:04
and you're where God wants you to be.
56:06
It is a great thing because not only do we as a church members
56:11
do we love one another like you just mentioned, but we encourage
56:15
one another. Hebrews 10/24/25.
56:19
Consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
56:22
not neglecting to meet together as is the habit of some, but
56:27
encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day
56:31
drawing near. And then you know, we guard one
56:35
another. And so all these things we love
56:39
and courage and listen, I am just so thankful to be a part of
56:44
a church. Even if I wasn't a pastor, I
56:46
still love church. And I think it's one of the
56:50
greatest things that that Jesus left for us here.
56:56
I also think that the closest thing we have to what heaven's
57:02
actually going to be like is the church.
57:06
I think when you're in the church, that is the closest
57:09
thing on this planet that is, is going to be what heaven.
57:14
It's a little taste of heaven on earth.
57:17
And so I'm all for it. And I think that church
57:21
membership is a great thing. And if you're not a member of a
57:23
church, you need to find a church.
57:26
If you're going to a church, you've been going there for a
57:29
while because we have this too, by people that go to a church
57:33
and they've been there for years and they haven't joined, they
57:36
haven't become a member because, you know, memberships just not
57:40
that important. It really is important.
57:43
It's important that where you're at, where you're being fed, you
57:48
make that commitment. I am going to be a part of this
57:51
family. I'm going to partake with them.
57:55
I'm going to throw in with them. I'm going to commit with them.
57:59
And I think it's just church membership is is very important.
58:03
Even though it's not explicitly stated in Scripture, we see it.
58:07
The Trinity is not in Scripture, and we believe the Trinity.
58:10
Or just because the word church membership's not in the Bible
58:14
doesn't mean that membership's not there.
58:16
It is there. And we definitely need to be a
58:18
part of a local church. Yeah.
58:21
And the last thing we'll bring? Up is 'cause this is a hard one
58:23
to talk about is obeying our leaders.
58:25
Hebrews 1317 says obey your leaders and submit to them, for
58:30
they are keeping watch over your soul.
58:32
And those who have to give an account, let them do this with
58:35
joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage of
58:39
to you. And so the question we have to
58:40
ask ourselves is if there is no such thing as church membership,
58:44
which elders are we supposed to to submit ourselves to?
58:47
Every elder that we see in the community, Which congregation
58:51
are we just submit ourselves to? Every congregation in the
58:53
community, Who's going to give us church discipline?
58:56
Every single Christian in the community that we see.
59:00
There is this type of individualism that we begin to
59:03
see here in church membership. And membership is Simply put,
59:07
like this. It's a self-conscious commitment
59:10
to other Christians to love, guard, and encourage a
59:14
submission to their authority as the congregation and submitting
59:18
to the elders in that congregation to give oversight
59:21
to you. And that's what Christ has
59:23
called us to do. He's called us to submit
59:25
ourselves into authority under the elders, but then to be
59:29
accountable with the congregation as well.
59:31
And this is what true membership looks like.
59:33
This is where we're able to guard one another and and look
59:37
out for one another and and a love one another and to
59:39
encourage one another because we're together in a community.
59:44
Exactly. You know, we are to obey our
59:49
leaders, submit to them in the church.
59:51
And I take that as the church, the pastor of the church does
59:56
have a certain amount of authority.
59:58
There is an inherent authority that comes from.
1:00:03
That comes as in in the pastoral, but at the same time
1:00:08
the Bible tempers what that authority can do.
1:00:12
You can't stand up behind a pulpit and guilt your
1:00:18
congregation into giving you Starbucks and mowing your grass.
1:00:22
OK. In fact, first Peter chapter 5
1:00:25
says, therefore, I exhort the elders among you as your fellow
1:00:29
elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ and
1:00:32
Partaker also the glory that is to be revealed.
1:00:36
Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not
1:00:41
under compulsion, but voluntary according to the will of God and
1:00:45
not for sordid gain, but with eagerness nor yet as lording it
1:00:50
over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be an
1:00:54
example to the flock. I think old Bill Reeves, you
1:00:59
know, he's he's our poster child for this episode, but this, this
1:01:03
passage of scripture is just a polar opposite of what he
1:01:06
preaches in his church. Yes, the we the pastor has
1:01:11
authority, but he's not to abuse that authority.
1:01:14
He's not a dictator. He's a servant leader because
1:01:18
that's what that's what Christ was and he's our example.
1:01:23
Absolutely love it. Love this series, I can't wait
1:01:26
to be in Nicaragua with you. I hope you've enjoyed this.
1:01:29
If you ever have any questions or comments, reach out to us.
1:01:31
Brett, I have had more people in the last two weeks reach out to
1:01:35
me. It's been an encouragement to me
1:01:37
to know that people are listening, we're encouraging one
1:01:40
another, we're lifting up one another, and that people are
1:01:42
being helped by our episodes. And so I appreciate you reaching
1:01:45
out to us. I appreciate you coming and and
1:01:48
talking to us. If you want to direct message
1:01:50
us, one guy messaged me on my phone and I've just been talking
1:01:54
with him and it's been great. And so anything we can do to
1:01:57
help, it's been be a good thing. If you're looking for a church
1:02:00
in the area, man who hook us up, you may be be an area where me
1:02:04
and Brett both maybe know someone in that area.
1:02:07
It was crazy, a story where I was at an association meeting
1:02:10
and the pastor was talking about his mom, how she was needing
1:02:13
help in Mississippi. And I said, we're at
1:02:15
Mississippi. Come to find out, she's
1:02:17
literally in Brett's back door. And people in their church knew
1:02:21
that. And they were members of Brett's
1:02:22
church and years and years ago, and Brett and his community were
1:02:27
able to go out and help them. But if if we didn't, if we
1:02:31
didn't talk about it, if we didn't communicate and we didn't
1:02:34
know these things and we wouldn't be able to help each
1:02:36
other. And so we're here to help each
1:02:38
other in a mighty way. And we just thank you guys for
1:02:41
tuning in. And if there's anything you can
1:02:43
ever do for us, let us know. And we, we look forward to
1:02:47
continuing these talks. But until next time, to God, not
1:02:51
the pastor. Be the glory.
1:02:53
Amen, found my new. Name found that good grace found
1:03:00
that healing and the tears fell down my face when I found my
1:03:05
beginning. It has no ending.
1:03:07
I found that second chance, found my best friend, found my.
1:03:26
Thanks for listening to the Four Freedom Podcast.
1:03:29
If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking,
1:03:32
subscribing, or sharing our podcast on whichever podcast
1:03:36
platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for
1:03:40
The Four Freedom Podcast.