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Trump Is Too Afraid to Debate Harris Again · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump says no more debates as
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: even Republicans are saying that he lost on Tuesday night. Meanwhile,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the Harris campaign is doing everything they can to keep
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the momentum going with new ads, big rallies, and more interviews.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: And later, as if they didn't already have enough to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: whine about, MAGA World melts down over Taylor Swift's endorsement
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: of Kamala Harris. But first, more than 67 million people
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: watched Tuesday night's debate. About 15 million more. Then watch
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the Biden-Trump debate in June. And the more data we get,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: the more clear it is that Kamala Harris won the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: debate decisively. In addition to the first post-debate poll from
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: CNN that showed Harris winning 63 to 37 percent, a
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: YouGov poll found her winning 54 percent to 31 percent.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: And both Reuters and Morning Consult now show Harris with
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: a five-point lead over Trump, which is her gaining a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: few points since before the debate. So we won't get
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a full picture of post-debate polling until probably the end
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of next week or the week after. But until then,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: we also have some great feedback from swing state voters
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: who haven't made up their minds yet. Our pal Sarah
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Longwell at the Bulwark offered a glowing report from her
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: nine-person panel where the most common word to describe Kamala's
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: performance was presidential. That kind of take seems to be
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: shared by a lot of the undecided voters who spoke
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to reporters at CNN, MSNBC, And elsewhere after the debate,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: let's listen.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: So that's Trump, the bully.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And I think Kamala Harris came out showing some decorum,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: some presidential nature about her.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: So I think the door's a little bit open.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: But it also sounds like this debate's cemented for you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that you will never vote for former President Trump, at
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: least again.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that people want to separate
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: policy from character, and I just don't see how you
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: can do that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Robert, I know we started off the evening where you
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: said you're not sure.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: Who you may support.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Did this debate change your mind in any way?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: It kind of did make me sway a little bit
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: toward Kamala Harris.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: What did you think?
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: As to who I would vote for in this election,
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: I strongly felt Kamala was more optimistic, more respectful. I
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: thought she had plans that she.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Tried to describe in the minutes worth of time that
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: she had.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: All right. So, uh, we're still working on the pronunciation
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: with some folks, but that is a super cut. I
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: could listen to over and over again. Just great stuff.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: What a fun guy.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: My friends in the focus groups, you know, I just,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I love focus group. I love an undecided voter with
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: all the caveats. First impression, still early, lots of voters
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: who haven't watched or maybe even seen a clip of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the debate. Um, What are your thoughts on how this
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: debate is landing with people?
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: It's landing great.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: She clearly won. She moved the ball forward on a
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: whole host of measures. She looked strong. She looked presidential.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: She got a chance to introduce herself to the country.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Huge viewership, which is a huge win, right? I think
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: there were some initial numbers that made it seem like
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: only a slight increase over Biden. The fact that it's
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: this big, I think, is very good for her. And
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: because of Trump's behavior, it became sort of a cultural moment.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So you're seeing a lot. There are a lot of
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: the clips. It may not be the clips that and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: we'll get into some other polling later, but they may
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: not be the clips that are exactly perfect for Kamala
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Harris in terms of the exact focus group message, but
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: it shows her looking good and him looking bad, and
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: that is great. But the biggest takeaway here is there's
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: a lot more work to do. In the CNN poll,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: 82% of people said that their vote was not changed,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: which no one should be surprised by that. Basically, 80%
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to 85% of voters have been pretty locked in their
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: position for a long time. In that poll, 14% said
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: the debate made them reconsider who they were supporting. I
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: imagine most of those are Trump supporters. And then 4%
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: said they'd actually changed their mind. And I think it's
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: important that we think about this debate differently than any
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: other presidential debate we've ever had. Because usually the debate
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: is the closing pitch. It's where you try to close
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the deal. Because the candidates have been campaigning for well
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: over a year.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: They've been running ads.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: They are well known to the voters in that moment.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, for most people, just like popped up two
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: months ago. They still didn't know her. So this is
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: not her closing pitch. This is her in front of
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a giant audience making the initial sale to try to
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: get people to be open to her. And the fact
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: that 14% of people have moved, and most of those
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: probably at least are now openly considering her, that's a win,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: but there's a lot more work to do.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we have to look at people's decision
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: about who to vote for, not as like an on
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and off switch, where- They see the debate and suddenly
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: they change their minds overnight. Like this is sort of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: a journey for a lot of voters, undecided voters. And
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's clear that for most undecided voters, at
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: least what we're seeing in the data, what we're hearing
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: in the focus groups, they came away with a more
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: favorable impression of Kamala Harris and they learned more about
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris that they liked. If they haven't changed their
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: mind yet, it sounds like it's because they haven't heard
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: enough from her yet. They want to know more. They
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: want more details. They want to see more of her.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They probably want to see her, you know, doing interviews,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: talking to people in other settings.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, we've talked for over a year
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: now about sort of originally Biden and now Kamala Harris
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: wanting to force a choice. Right. To say, here's Donald Trump.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Here's me. And let's make people decide who maybe haven't
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: been paying attention. And I do think, you know, unlike
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: either of the conventions, Democratic or Republican, the debate was
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the first time voters got to see the two candidates vote.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: who were running against each other for president, one of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: whom will be president, on stage together next to each
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: other for 90 minutes. And they came away thinking that
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris did much better. Our friends at the center-left
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: blueprint polling also asked voters which lines and messages made
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: them more likely to vote for Kamala Harris and against
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I thought this was probably more useful than
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: any top-line number about who might have changed their minds.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Anything stand out to you from that poll or others
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: we've seen so far, like other data points that actually
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: would help with the campaign's message and all of us
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: as volunteers as we're going out trying to convince people?
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: So two things.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: One, essentially the best testing message in the entire poll
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: from that debate was Kamala Harris's line that she's not
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, she's certainly not Donald Trump, but she offers
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: a new generation of leadership. And that fits with what
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I think has been probably both of our theory of
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: this race, which is her ability to represent something different,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: to turn the page on the Trump era is really
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: the key to victory here. Because in that Times poll,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: voters wanted change and most voters thought that she represented
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: more of the same. And so if she can change
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: that and reframe this race and the fact where she
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: is turning the page on Trump and sort of what
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: we've been going through for the last many years here,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: that's a huge positive for her. The other thing, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I think this is really interesting and it's interesting for
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: people in the conversations they're going to have with the
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: voters in their lives and also for how we think
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: about the campaign strategy going forward is all the best
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: messages were the positive ones. The ones that were about
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and her values. And it really wasn't about Trump.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: And I think when you look at that CNN poll
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: to try to merge these two polls together, people's opinions
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: of Donald Trump did not change. They did not think
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: worse of him after that debate. Like his unfavorability rating
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: did not really go up.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: It didn't really move.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And so when people are trying to make their decision
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: on that journey that you're talking about, they already know
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: what they need to know about Trump.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: And so they're going to.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Cross the line, cross the Rubicon to vote for Kamala
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Harris based on what they learn about her over these
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: next 50 some days. And I think that's just really
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: important as we think about how we're going to, what
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: we are posting on social, what we're sharing with in
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: our friends and families, group chats, et cetera, is that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: what they really want is they want to know about
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, who she is, her plans, et cetera, more
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: than they need one more clip of Trump acting like
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: a nutcase.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Well, and we heard one of the women we heard
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: from in that clip, said, you know, people think that
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you can separate character from policy and I don't know
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: how you can do that. The voters who still haven't
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: made up their minds yet about who to vote for
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: or whether they're going to vote at all, most of
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: them don't like Donald Trump and they don't think he
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: has a great character. They have already decided that. They
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: are still considering him because they haven't separated character from
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: policy yet. And they're still thinking, yeah, maybe she has
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: a better character and she's more honest and in a
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: fresh face, stuff like that. But I'm still, I don't
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: know if her policies are better, if she's going to
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: be a better president than him, even though he's kind
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: of an asshole. That's the voter that we're talking about here.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: And that can frustrate all of you, as it does us.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But it's something to keep in mind. And to your point,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: first of all, I am not Joe Biden, and I'm
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: certainly not Donald Trump. What I do is offer a
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: new generation of leadership for the country. We hadn't even
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: seen the blueprint polling yet, but when she said that
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: line in the debate, there were cheers from our office.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Because we just knew. We knew that from all the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: data that we had seen that that would work well,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and sure enough, it did. The other best testing lines,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the true measure of a leader is who actually understands
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that strength is not beating people down, it's lifting people up, right?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Which again, I'm sure a lot of us political, hardened,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: cynical political junkies would think that that's maybe too gauzy
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: and positive. And, you know, that's voters like that. We
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: don't want this kind of approach that's just constantly trying
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: to divide us, especially by race. We don't want a
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: leader who is constantly trying to have Americans point their
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: fingers at each other. That was another top testing line.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And then on issues, no surprise here, right around those
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: lines that I just mentioned, restoring Roe v. Wade, strengthening
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act and bringing down drug costs. Kamala
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: saying Trump has no plan for you. And then the
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: only negative message about Trump that tested in that top
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: range was her talking about the Trump sales tax, the
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: 20% tax on everyday goods. That's $ 4, 000 more a year
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: for families. This is how she described the tariffs, which
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was great because she didn't even have to describe what
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a tariff is or define it. She didn't use the word,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: which I appreciate. No, she just called it a Trump
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: sales tax. And it turns out it was maybe the
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: strongest negative message against Trump. The only other thing I'll
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: point out is I saw the New York Times has
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: been talking to undecided voters not the random story about
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: how that they ran about how that some of you
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: may have seen about how for some undecided voters, she
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: didn't close the deal, but there's like a panel of
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: undecided voters that they've been following around. That's actually, um,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the right, uh, sample scientifically and not just like random
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: people that they talked to in a diner. And Patrick
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Healy of the New York times said he was talking
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to some of these younger undecided voters after the debate.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: And he has a comment from a 24 year old
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: undecided voter who, that he said reflected the sentiments of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of people in the group after the debate
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: about Trump. And he said, he doesn't necessarily scare me.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I think he's incompetent. What scares me is the people
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: he surrounded himself with and how they can use him.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Laura Loomer was on the plane with him. The Heritage
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Foundation and all the plans they have. It just seems
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: like he's a vessel for other people who are way
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: more competent and have way more plans to do stuff
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that I personally don't agree with. I feel like they're
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: going to use him and get policies enacted that I
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: personally don't agree with. I loved that comment because I
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: think it gets at a truth of how people see Trump.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about how some voters don't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: see him as that extreme on abortion, even though they
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: know that it was his Supreme Court justices that overturned
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Roe and they don't trust him. But people are starting
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to understand that Project 2025, you know, fucking Laura Loomer
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: on the plane. For those who don't know, she said
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: she's a proud Islamophobe. She's already tweeting horribly racist things
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris. All you have to know about her
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: is she's in a fight with Marjorie Taylor Greene right now,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: where Marjorie Taylor Greene says she's too extreme and racist
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: for the MAGA movement.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: She's the one person Marjorie Taylor Greene would fight with
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: where you'd think about rooting for Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how bad. That's all you have to know
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: about Laura Loomer. And she's been on the plane with Trump.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: She was his debate guest. She's his buddy now.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: She's a 9-11 truther, and she went to the 9-11
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: memorial with him.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, I forgot. That was a big one.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Because if I didn't say that, Tommy was going to
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: bust through into the studio like a Kool-Aid man.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: He's so mad about it.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I know. But that 24-year-old from California who is undecided,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I think that is the more effective argument about Trump
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: for people who think maybe he's a little different or
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: maybe he's not that bad or he's like bullshit, but
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: he's actually not that extreme or conservative. It's that he has,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: as Kamala Harris said in the debate, he is easily
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: duped He is easily manipulated and he's going to have
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: a bunch of extreme, extreme far right people around him,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: more so than he ever has before, that if he
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: gets back to the White House are going to do
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: whatever the fuck they want because Donald Trump doesn't really
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: care because he's easily manipulated. And I think that is
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: a very effective argument for undecided swing voters. One person
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: who begs to differ on the outcome of the debate,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, whose kink is saying that he won things
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: he actually lost. Not all of his usual pals are
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: buying the spin this time, though. Here's Brit Hume and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Neil Cavuto of Fox News, MAGA, MAHA surrogate RFK Jr.,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and Republican pollster Frank Luntz.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Make no mistake about it, Trump had a bad night.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: He decisively lost.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Vice President Harris clearly won the debate. I've spoken to
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: people on his team and members of his family. They
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: feel like the same way that I do.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, there were some lost opportunities.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump lost. This is not the worst debate performance
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: I've seen in my career, but it's very close to it.
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: It was a pretty negative performance, pretty pessimistic, cynical. And
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: I think that this will cost him. Yes, I'm I'm
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: trying to decide if I want to go on record.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: And the answer is yes. I think that he loses
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: because of this debate performance. Wow.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: That was fun to listen to also.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: That's what I would listen to over and over again.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: More than the undecided voters.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, I like them too, but this is more enjoyable.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Hearing Frank Luntz just bring himself to say on Piers Morgan, oh,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he lost. I think the debate lost it for him.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: We almost, by the way, Reid didn't want to put
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this clip in because he didn't want to jinx it,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: which was a good thought on Reid's behalf. And I
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: thought about that, too. But so we're not saying again,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: we're not saying so much more work to do. He
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: could easily win. And, you know, Frank Luntz, maybe you
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: don't take his prediction seriously. You know, we're just having fun.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: We take our superstitions politically very seriously here. And I
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: went through an entire calculus on this when Reid brought
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: it up. And us saying it would be possibly a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: karma violation. Frank Luntz saying it does not have anything
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: to do with karma for us, so it's okay.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not telling you to believe anything Frank Luntz says.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr., great surrogate, by the way. How helpful is he?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I'm shocked he's not better at this. Just truly shocked.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, have you known him before the brain worm?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: He was great then, but now I don't know.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: This is his big week. The guy who's been... He's
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: had a lot of roadkill animal stuff.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Was the whale thing this week?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying it's a big week for him because
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: of the Springfield Ohio stuff.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, I see.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: You know, but he's been, I guess he's been, you'd
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: think he'd want to sit back because he's had some
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: pet issues himself.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that's why.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So all this is, of course, driving Trump nuts. He
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: posted on Truth Social that Neil Cavuto is one of
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the worst on television. He said he'd rather go with
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the losers at MSDNC. And then, yeah, that's tough. And
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: then in much bigger news, Trump made it clear on
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Thursday that he is too afraid to face Kamala Harris again.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: Because we've done two debates and because they were successful,
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: there will be no third debate.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: That's it. No third debate. I guess that's that, huh?
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Are you surprised he already threw in the towel? The
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: day after or two days after? I don't know.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know that he.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: We have just been talking about this debate nonstop for
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: 72 hours now. I.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure he threw in the towel.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: You think he might reconsider if the polls go badly?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: He backed out of the debate we just had like
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: three different times. So I think it's possible. Oftentimes with Trump,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: this sort of thing is the beginning of a negotiating ploy.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is how he pushes for Fox.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know that there's a real plan here. But
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I can definitely see him possibly being goaded into doing
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: another one. He's not someone super well acquainted with his
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: own best interests. So maybe he will do another debate.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting that you said it could be the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: opening of a negotiating ploy. If you're the Harris campaign,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: do you fight for another debate at this point? 100%.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Because I mean, I know we said that it was
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: in her interest to do it, which is why they said,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: we'll see you at the next debate. Now that he
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: said no, I'm wondering how hard they push it. But
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I still think you want another big audience.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: She needs another debate. She absolutely does.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: If you, one of the things that CNN, Paul, not
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: to keep going back to it, is Trump exits that
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: debate with a 12 point advantage on the economy. And
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: this is through no fault of hers. It's just that
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: the way that debate went is the first two questions
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: from the economy, Trump answered one of those questions about immigration,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: and we were off to the races onto mythically missing cats.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And that is the biggest thing she needs to do.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: That was her biggest audience to do it. She did
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: not get an opportunity. She came back through a middle-class
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: background at several points, but the debate did not allow
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: for a huge, big conversation on the economy. And that's
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: what she has to fix. And so having another opportunity
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: in front of another incredibly large audience to do that
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: is I think incredibly important if she can get it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: She can win without it, obviously, but there is so
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: much more work to do here and a debate would
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: be very helpful to be back on that stage for
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: that reason.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, for all the hundreds of millions of
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: dollars that she has raised and the ads she'll run
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and the campaigning she and the rest of the ticket
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and spouses and everyone else is doing all over the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: swing states, you're still not going to get an audience
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: as big as a debate audience to deliver your message,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: which is why that's really valuable.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: And even a debate audience, like even that audience of
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: 67 million people is less than half of the 2020 electorate.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: And we know that the vote.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: 160 million?
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: 160 million.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, 158 maybe.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: But we know, what we do know is that the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: voters who are most persuadable, most undecided, most swingy are
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the ones least likely to watch the debate. Least likely
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: to watch, to consume at least traditional media coverage of
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: the debate.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: So then you may ask the question, why do a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: second debate? It's because you need another moment where obviously
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: people will hear about this through osmosis or maybe closer
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: to the end, they will tune in if it's in October,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: as it would likely be.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: So what do you make of the outbreak of honesty
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: among some of these Republican media types?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I would just say that Donald Trump's debate performance was
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: so bad that the people who deny climate change couldn't
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: deny this.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: It's just.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Suddenly they found shame crept back into their mind. They
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: couldn't bring themselves to do it.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously the most obsequious megatypes are shilling for
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Trump here, but it's impossible to defend. It's absolutely impossible.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: He knew he was losing from the look on his
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: face from about 35 minutes into that debate. You couldn't
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: really say otherwise.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: they will say he did poorly, but then we won't
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: talk about this pivot and blame other factors for why
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: he did so poorly. But there was no, if you
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: were a person who at least pretends half the time
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: to be somewhat to the journalistic center of Sean Hannity,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: like Brit Hume does, then you kind of had to
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: say this.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think those people probably realize that Most
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: people who watched the debate had working eyes and ears
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and they could see it with their, with see themselves.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And you can't really bullshit people on that. So the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Trump campaign has been telling reporters on background that Trump
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: supposedly had detailed plans and talking points for the debate
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: that would have helped him avoid taking the bait from
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and pivot back to his core message. Do
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you think any of these people have ever met Donald
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Trump prior to the debate?
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: It's so funny because there's a great bulwark story from
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Marco Pudo about this. And in it, they talk about
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: how he had these very detailed strategic plans. And the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: one they cite is how he was going to pivot
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: off the cat story that he himself brings up. So
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: it's like they had decided that this very serious policy,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: happy warrior Trump, could not be convinced to not bring
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: up the fake cat story. But they prepared him for
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: how to get to the cat story and then pivot
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: to the larger Biden administration, immigration record, whatever else. I mean,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: they did debate prep with Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And he just couldn't execute. He just couldn't execute the play.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: What a surprise. Let Trump be Trump.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, put aside the idea that he ever
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: had detailed plans or a concept of a plan for
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: how to do this debate or whatever you want to say.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: He obviously, and they've been clear in the report on this,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he had a strategic objective. They announced it in a
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: conference call with this collection of morons who did debate
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: prep that what they were going to do is they
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: were going to tie her to the Biden administration record
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: on inflation and immigration. And he could not do that.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: He could not execute because he's an addled old man
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: who's obsessed with himself.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Like he just could not execute it.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: And by the way, her pointing that out is not
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: just fan service for all of us who already known that.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: It is showing people, and I think it has shown people,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and I just have words like, this man, imagine him
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: in the Oval Office. Like, he can't follow a plan.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: He has no discipline. He can't control himself. And that
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: can be funny or politically fruitful, if you're Kamala Harris,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: in the context of a debate. But when you're leading
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the free world, it might be problematic. It might be
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a riskier choice to send him back to the White House.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: The reason why that's important is in that New York
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Times-Siena poll, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump were tied in
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: terms of who is a riskier choice.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yep. So not all of Trump's sycophants have given up
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: on making excuses for his bad debate. Most of them
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: are blaming ABC News and the moderators. Ben Shapiro said
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the network, quote, put a stake through the heart of
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: presidential debates. And Charlie Kirk likened it to a show
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: trial where ABC News was the executioner. MAGA kooks are
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: also calling moderator Lindsay Davis and Kamala Harris sorority sisters
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: because they were part of the same historically black sorority,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: even though they graduated from different colleges several years apart.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: And the sorority has three hundred and sixty thousand members.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: So that's yeah, they're they're they're buddies. Trump himself is
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: calling is calling the moderators all kinds of names, saying
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that ABC News should lose its broadcast license. Sean Davis
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: over at The Federalist, the guy who runs The Federalist,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: he said that they should be arrested, the moderators, should
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: be arrested and charged with campaign interference.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Is that a law?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that's a law.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: It's not a law. It's not a law, Dan. Trump
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: also had more to say about his performance at a
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: rally in Tucson on Thursday.
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: As everyone saw two nights ago, we had a Monumental
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: victory over.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Comrade Kamala Harris in the presidential debate.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Two low-life anchors. They're low-lives.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna watch him.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: Because he's not legit, what he did.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna watch him.
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: And his hair's not as good as it used to be,
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: you know?
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And she was nasty. She looked at me with hatred
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: in her eyes. People said that I was angry at
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: the debate.
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: Angry.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I was angry.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: And yes, I am angry because he allowed 21 million
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: illegal aliens invading our communities.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Many of them are criminals.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Many are criminals. I'm angry.
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: So that was a little bit about David Muir's hair,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: a little bit about Lindsay Davis' hate in her eyes.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: He's angry. We don't have this part of the clip,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: but at one point he talked about the situation in
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Springfield and said... All these Haitian immigrants are coming into Springfield.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Who knows where they're from?
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Who could venture a guess?
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sure all of the complaining about the moderators and ABC,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's landing with Trump supporters. Do you think
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that kind of whining is going to land with anyone else?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think most people are hearing it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: It's fan service.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: It's just to make your MAGA base feel better about
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: the disaster they watched. And there's just a truism in
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: politics that the side complaining about the moderators is the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: side that lost the debate.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: That is always true.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It was true when Democrats were complaining about the CNN
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: moderators after the Biden-Trump debate.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: That is always the case.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: To the extent anyone hears it, it just sounds like
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: more fucking whining about something involving himself. And you can
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: see the seeds of the campaign in trying to manage
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Trump here, which is– I'm angry, but I'm not angry.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: What he was trying to execute there quite poorly, I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: would say, was– allow him to blather on about the debate,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: and then he's going to say he's angry, but he's
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: angry on behalf of you for immigration or whatever else,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: but he can't do it. And the part where he's
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: talking about himself, he has passion and vigor, and the
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: part where he's talking about everyone else, he's reading a script.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: And that is Donald Trump to a T.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Which is what Kamala Harris said.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: She said, go to one of his rallies, and the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: one thing he won't hear is anything about you because
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: he has no plans for you because he doesn't care
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: about anyone but himself, which, by the way, also... He
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: announced in a video today that in a couple days,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: he's coming out with his own crypto. I mean, what?
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Like, that does not get enough attention.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: 50-something days before the election? Crypto?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: He's doing it at Twitter Spaces on September 16th?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I hope.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: That's right, at Twitter Spaces, yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: That's a Monday, I think?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he's.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Going to do. It's a money-making fucking scheme. That's it.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: The idea that he is doing this 58th before the
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: election and it's not one of the biggest stories is
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: just sort of wild. There's a lot of big stories,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: so I don't want to play that game, but it
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: is a truly insane thing to do. It's crazier than
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: selling the Bibles with Lee Greenwood. It's crazier than that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Well, before we move on to Kamala Harris, we should
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: note that the other message MAGA World is driving post-debate
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: has to do with the issue that most voters are
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: focused on, which is whether or not immigrants in Springfield,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Ohio are eating people's pets. On update, they're still not,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: but thanks to Trump and J.D. Vance repeating this deranged
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: conspiracy to millions of people, the Springfield News Sun reports
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that multiple city, county, and school buildings were closed on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Thursday due to a bomb threat, while Haitian immigrants are
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: saying that they're scared for their families' lives. Meanwhile, a
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Trump advisor told the Bulwark, quote, if anyone thinks we're
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: scared to talk about Haitians eating pets, they're wrong. Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: no shit. You don't seem scared to do that. Here,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I'm reminded of Kamala Harris's convention speech line that Trump
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: is an unserious man whose second term as president would
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: come with extremely serious consequences. What do you think? Is
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: this a storyline to be mocked, feared, both?
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: Both.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Trump should be mocked for this because it's absurd. It's embarrassing.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It's unpresidential. It just shows, as Kamala Harris would say,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: an unserious person.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: But this is.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Yet another in a long line of incidents where over
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the last nine years of American politics, where Donald Trump
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: and the far-right media and the Republican Party as a
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: whole have said things, spread conspiracy theories, and those conspiracy
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: theories have led to real-world consequences, including violence. Do we
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: remember when, in 2016, a gunman showed up at Comet
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Pizza in Washington, D.C. because of all the Pizzagate conspiracies?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: That person showed up there to try to rescue children
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: from a pizza place because of what was spreading around
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the internet, being pushed by Trump allies. We've seen these
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: mass shootings that have been where the shooters have talked
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: about great replacement theory, something that is being pushed by
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson and a bunch of other people in the
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: far right. There is a history here, and it is
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: deeply dangerous. And so, yes, we should make fun of Trump,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: but we should understand, as Kamala Harris would say, that
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: there are very serious consequences for his unserious behavior.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And I think the bulwark was also interviewing some folks
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: in Springfield, and what they're finding is a lot of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the residents in Springfield are now saying, They've heard about
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: the rumors from Trump and J.D. Vance or something that
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: they saw on the Internet, not something that they've seen
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: in their community. Of course. And in fact, like, so, yes,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the background here for Springfield is. And there were all
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: these job opportunities in Springfield. So they came now because
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: there's so many new people in Springfield. It has put
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: like some strain on social services and there've been some issues.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: But when you talk to people in Springfield and when
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: they ask people, so many of them were saying, well,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: these Haitian immigrants are some of the best workers we
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: have in our factories. And it's actually not that big
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: of a deal. And it's getting blown up by the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: national press. And so you see how this happens where
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: maybe there's some tension with newcomers in a town in Ohio.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and then the right-wing crazies get involved, and the larger
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the platform, by the time it gets to J.D. Vance,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and then it gets to Donald Trump on a debate
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: stage in front of 67 million people, suddenly conspiracies are
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: floating around that are really going to put people in
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: danger who live in the town, both the Haitian immigrants
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and the residents of Springfield, because now there's just crazies
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: all over the place. It's insane. It is so insane.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: It is so insane. But it also should be mocked.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: And right now on TikTok, by the way, People are
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: remixing the Donald Trump saying they're eating cats and dogs.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: And it's just, it's fire. Some of those remixes are fire.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Did you just say it's fire?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: It's fire, yeah. And it's hard to say this because, again, horrible.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Are you speaking in emoji now? Like, what is happening?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I don't even know you.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You go on TikTok for six minutes and you start saying,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: it's fire.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: My brain has been pickled.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: God, that's fast.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: It's great.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, come on. But it's insane. And I can't
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: tell now if they're going to stop it because they're
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: just going to get bored with it or they're going
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to keep riding this one now. They're just going to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: keep talking about Springfield, Ohio. I can't imagine that they
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: find that you think the latter. They're just going to
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: keep doing this.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, for a while until they find a new
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: absurd thing. We had an entire episode explainer on gas
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: stove confiscation a couple of years ago. They take these
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: things for a long, pretty far away.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you something before we move on to this.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: It seems like the two best issues for Trump are
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the economy, inflation, and immigration. It seems very much like
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: he does not want to talk about his best issue,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: which according to the polls is inflation and the economy,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: and only wants to talk about immigration. Do you think
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that that could ultimately be a mistake for him?
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: For sure. It seems like he just can't, he has
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: no interest in driving an economic contrast or an economic message.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: The same reason that Donald Trump doesn't like to talk
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: about the economy is the same reason why the press
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: rarely writes about the economy. It doesn't drive engagement. When
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: you go to a rally and he starts talking about
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: the cost of living, people don't go nuts. You spew
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: some conspiracy theory about immigrants eating cats, the crowd goes crazy.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And he is just very Pavlovian when it comes to applause.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: And so this is like that North Carolina rally from
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: a few weeks ago where he got there, started reading
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: the economic parts of the speech. No one applauded, so
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: he just went down all the rabbit holes. So yeah,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's hard for them to do. Now the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: campaign is advertising on the economy, right? They have a
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: new ad up which has quotes of Kamala Harris saying
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Bidenomics is working. Like they are hammering that.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about Kamala Harris. Her team has
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: their foot in the gas after their big win Tuesday night. Apparently,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: they brought in $ 47 million from 600,000 donors within the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: first 24 hours after the debate. On Thursday, they released
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: two new ads that incorporate debate footage. You can always
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: tell which campaign thinks they won the debate because they
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: put out ads that didn't have the debate footage in them.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Trump did not do that. Kamala Harris did. One ad
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: does the future versus past, optimism versus pessimism contrast. It
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: includes the great Harris line where she said she offers
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the new generation of leadership. The other ad is a
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: cut down of the debate exchange over abortion. Politico also
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: has a story saying the Harris campaign is going to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: be stepping up the pace of their events and interviews,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: including interviews with less traditional outlets, something Trump has been.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Doing a lot of.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And the campaign launched their post-debate battleground tour on Thursday,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: starting with two Kamala Harris events in North Carolina. Here
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: she is in Charlotte talking about the debate.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Two nights ago, Donald Trump and I had our first debate. Yeah!
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And I believe we owe it to the voters to
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: have another debate.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: Because this election and what is at stake could not
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: be more important.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Now, she sounded like she was having a good time
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: at that event. How long do you think she keeps
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: needling him about the debate? And anything else she can
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: do to just keep this in the news a couple
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: more days?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I think needle him out the debate for a few
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: more days, keep aggressively pushing publicly for another debate, call
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: him out for being afraid to debate again. That's the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: next turn of the wheel, I think, is there.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, calling him a chicken. Plouffe was on Twitter calling
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: him a chicken. He's excited. It's good to have Plouffe
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: back in the mix. What'd you think of the two
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: new ads? They're good.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, like so much of this campaign, they are
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: very data-driven, and the things they put out are the
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: things that the polls say work. The abortion ad is
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: very powerful and it's the sort of the exact contrast.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's the, when we're talking about like what
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: ads should you send to the people and the voters
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: in your life who are curious, and particularly the ones
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: who are deciding between voting and not voting, not necessarily
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: voting between Harris and Trump. And I think the abortion
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: ad is a very powerful one. Like that is a
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: great one to send around to people.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think you brought this up on our
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: last pod that Plouffe tweeted during the debate that how
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: undecided voters reacted to both of their answers on abortion
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was like the biggest split he's ever seen.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: It was a 40-point swing.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Dial testing. 40-point swing, yeah. So that's probably why they
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: went with that one. On the Politico story about Harris
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: doing more interviews with non-traditional outlets, do you have any
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: advice for the campaign on that aside from go on
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I've been pitching them directly to some polar co-star. Just
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a dig in the data.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: You and Elijah got them behind the paywall.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: It's a good way to reach undecided political poll junkies.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think this is to be very interesting
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: what happens next year. I think they've had a very
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: good set of reasons for why they have been pretty
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: reticent in the sort of media appearances she's been doing, right?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: They had, they you know, as we said before, she
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: woke up in the morning, the vice president by brunch,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: she was the democratic nominee. She had to pick a
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: vice president, get ready for a convention, prepare for a debate,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: hire a staff, do all these things. And so, but
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: now here we are, we're in the final stretch of
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: 50 days. And I think her media strategy has to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: be what I sometimes call it's like everything, everywhere, all
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: at once.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: She's got to do everything.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: She's got to, she's been doing to her credit. She
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: has been doing local radio almost every morning. Um, When
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: she was in debate camp, getting ready for the debate,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: keep doing that. She's going to have to sit down
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: and do local TV interviews. But I think the bulk
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: of where the energy has to be is in non-traditional
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: stuff because the voters that you need to reach are
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: just impossible to reach through all the traditional tools of
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: a campaign, including advertising on linear television. It is just
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: so hard to reach particularly young people because they have
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: cut the cord. They are on TikTok where there's no
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: paid advertising. They are on Netflix where there's no political advertising.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: They are on other platforms where there's no political advertising.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: So they're just, other than like major events, like really
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: football games, it is very hard to reach them with ads.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And so you're going to have to just be everywhere.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, have Kamala Harris go on Hot Ones,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: do Call Her Daddy, have Tim Walls do every sports
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: podcast you possibly can around football season, have him do
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: local sports radio before high school games as a former
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: high school coach. Just be everywhere, do lots of things.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: take big swings, take big risks. You have to do it.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And by the way, we should say like this, that
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: strategy probably will not satisfy a lot of reporters from
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: traditional outlets who will say she's avoiding tough questions instead
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: of she's avoiding the press because they'll think that, you know,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the argument is they're more softball questions and non-traditional outlets.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: But it's less about the type of question for the
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Harris campaign than it is about the audience. Because like
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: you said, it's just, a lot of voters that they
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: need to reach are just not tuning into traditional media
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: outlets and not getting their news from them.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: It would be great. She should take questions from the press.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: When she gets off the plane or gets on the
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: plane after an event, take questions, do that, just be
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: out there. But there was this bargain that existed since
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: the invention of media where candidates would take questions from
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: the press. And oftentimes those questions were, tough, but they're
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: really often process-oriented. They weren't the questions of the campaign.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: They weren't the campaign's message. But you took those questions.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: You suffered through that because you needed the reach of
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the media to reach the public. You still need some
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: of that for sure, but just that relationship between journalism
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: and reaching voters has been severed somewhat.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Do some of that stuff.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: The CNN interview got 6.6 million viewers, which is good,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: but that's because it was sort of an event. The
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: next one's not going to get that. Yeah, maybe– one
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: way to sort of– I think you can sort of
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: square the circle on this is to do like a
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: network town hall where– because that serves two purposes. One,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: you are taking questions from reporter and voters.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Voters.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: It's traditional media, but it's also usually covered by the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: rest of the press as an event. And so it's not,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you know, because you just do a CNN interview, generally
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: it's just going to be on CNN and no one
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: else is going to really care.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: But lean into the non-traditional stuff, take risks and be
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: incredibly aggressive because she's really good. And she's really, really
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: good when she is just being... a human talking about
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: her life. And there's this great one, this great clip
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: that's been going.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Around on TikTok. Maybe it's fire. I don't know.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Sorry, you've never heard that before.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Never heard it from me. I've heard it, just not
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: from you.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: My Gen X co-host.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: You may be a millennial, but you have the soul
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: of a silent generation member.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Look, I haven't gone as far as Tommy talking about
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Riz this and that. We're not there yet.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: But there's this great, I wish I remember what it
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: was called, but it's a show where they ask you,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: they play a little music and you have to guess
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: the artist and then talk about your relationship with it,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: which talks about Stevie Wonder and Miles Davis.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: And it is awesome. And like there's, we've talked before
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: about the Mindy.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Kaling cooking video from 2019, like that sort of stuff,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: more and more of that.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: And by the way, there's a lot of these non-traditional
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: outlets where you can talk substantively about your plans and
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: policies for voters who want to know more about what
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you're going to do. Like it doesn't have to all
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: be sort of like human interest, cultural lighter stuff, right?
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Like it can be a mix of that and like
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: letting people know what you're going to do as president,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: which is what a lot of like some of the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: low info, less engaged, more cynical voters are going to
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: want to know. So before we go, the other big
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: news from Tuesday night, of course, was Taylor Swift's endorsement
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: of Kamala Harris. CNN has reported that in the 24-hour
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: period after Swift posted, more than 405,000 people had clicked
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the link she shared to vote.gov. Most days, traffic is
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: about 30,000 people. She also encouraged people to register at
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the VMAs on Wednesday night when she spoke and won
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a VMA. And even though MagoWorld has plenty of to
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: be angry about between Trump's debate performance and the spate
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: of pet napping and cat eating in Springfield, they've still
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: saved some outrage for the world's biggest pop star, Let's listen.
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: We admire Taylor Swift's music, but I don't think most Americans,
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: whether they like her music or fans of hers or not,
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: problems of most Americans.
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: I was not a Taylor Swift fan, and she'll probably
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: pay a price for it in the marketplace.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: But the other thing about all this is what makes
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: you think that the way you think should influence other people?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: You sing for a living. Just deal with that.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: I'm allowed to criticize Taylor Swift, and I don't give
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: a shit who gets upset.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: This is disgusting. F you, Taylor Swift. Megyn Kelly. Megyn
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Kelly is going through something.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: She is, yeah.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Ever since she's gotten, even the last couple of months,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it's just gotten steadily weirder and more extreme. She's so angry.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: She thinks it's disgusting because Taylor, in her post, said
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: she's particularly happy that Kamala chose Tim Walz. And she,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and she said that, you know, Tim Walls in Minnesota
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: has stood up for LGBT people. And, you know, he,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: remember the best, he sort of was the head of
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the Gay-Straight Alliance at the high school, right?
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: All those stories.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But she takes it as like, I don't know. She
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: went down this whole conspiracy with Tim Walls and it's,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's, who knows? What do you think about
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: all this? Like what, what? I, I, I continue to
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: think that going hard negative on the most popular recording
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: artist in the world is, is not a good strategy.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: No, it is not a good strategy. It makes you
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: look fucking ridiculous. Which, first point.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Two, J.D.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Vance is, I know he went to Yale Law, but
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: he is adult.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: If only we could- Saying who's going to listen to
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: a billionaire disconnect. The Harris campaign should put that in
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: an ad and then put a picture of Donald Trump
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: after he says the line. There.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: A billionaire celebrity made J.D. Vance abandon everything he stood for.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: But the reason Judge Jeanine Pirro and Megyn Kelly are
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: doing this is because they're not trying to win an election.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: They are trying to get engagement. And talking about Taylor Swift,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: being angry about Taylor Swift, loving Taylor Swift will get
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: people on the internet to pay attention to you. There's
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: that real anger. She is a naturally angry human being.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I believe that. But Megyn Kelly did that little performance
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: so that we would talk about her, she'd go viral,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: more people would pay attention to her, remember that She
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: was once on a network television show and now she
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: does whatever she does. It's just the whole people, they're ridiculous.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: They're a ridiculous group of people. It's a crazy thing
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: to be bad about.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Also Donald Trump saying, I think she's going to pay
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: a price in the marketplace. We'll see, pal. We'll see.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: And then like Elon Musk's weird, creepy tweet about it.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't even see this.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Hold on. Hold on.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Pull it up right here. Let's do this live. I'm
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: going to pull it up.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pull it up. We can cut out
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: some of the space here. Here we go. Okay, so
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk tweeted, fine, Taylor, you win. I will give
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you a child and guard your cats with my life.
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: Ugh.
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: Ugh.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are just so, the weird thing, the
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: weird thing is really, it's, you know what? Even if you,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: for some reason, haven't followed Elon Musk's trip down the
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole over the last several years, Like, you see
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: him talking about, like, I will give you a child,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. What the fuck is wrong with this person?
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Weird. You're right. Weird, weird, weird.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Megyn Kelly saying, fuck you, Taylor. What is going on
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: with these people?
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Like, how dare... Calm down. How dare someone.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: How dare a celebrity get involved in politics?
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Why would that be so offensive? I can imagine why
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: these Republicans are so offended by it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Anyway, what a great week.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Great, great week.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: You know what? There's going to be tough weeks ahead.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: It's a close race. Who knows what's going to happen
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: right now? We're having a good time.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: That debate was great. Watching Donald Trump meltdown is great.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Watching the Megyn Kelly meltdown about Taylor Swift is great.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: It's all great.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's fantastic. All right. You know what would
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: be even better? If you went to votesaveamerica.com and signed
• 45:51
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• 45:54
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• 45:57
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• 46:00
  Speaker 1: signed up yet, what are you waiting for? The race
• 46:03
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• 46:06
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• 46:11
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• 46:13
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• 46:22
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• 46:30
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  Speaker 1: That is our show for today. Everyone have a great weekend.
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  Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
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  Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is David Toledo.
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