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CLASSIC: The Night Witches: How an All-female Soviet Bomb Squad Terrorized Nazi Germany · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning with this week's classic
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: episode as we are moving to the best time of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the calendar year. We wanted to talk about witches.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a little early.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: But not so early that it's egregious. I'm okay with
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: the Halloween decorations and candies rolling out a month ahead.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: But this is a fun episode that was released originally
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: in July of 2019. Not very Halloween-y at all. So
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: we're doing a better job this time around. And it
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: also turns out that it's not actually about witches at all.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cool, it's a spiffy name. We're really
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: talking about the 588th Night Bomber. They didn't have the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: best equipment. They did not have the best planes. You
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: could call them a little bit ragtag.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And what set them apart from some of their cohorts
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: was the fact that this was an all-female bomber regiment
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: where they lacked in equipment. They made up for in
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: moxie strategy, ambition.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And they terrified German soldiers so much that the 588th
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: gained a street name can you do it in German
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: for us?
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Thank you. I want it
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: to so bad. Denach Texan.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: The Night Witches. Let's roll it. Ridiculous History is a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. My name is Ben.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: My name is Noel.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: And today we are joined, as always, with our super producer,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Casey Labouche-Pagram. Give it up for him, folks.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I just did a weird thing, Ben. I said my
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: name the way I say it on our other show,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, because you didn't
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: start off with a pithy little scene like you usually do.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: It threw me.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Ah, yes, well, it's... It's a different recording time for us.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: We've been doing a lot of weird scheduling shuffling, and
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not in my afternoon bin yet.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: You're not in your history zone?
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Not quite, not quite, but we're in a bit of
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a spooky zone, and we're talking about an adventure. I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: do have something that does relate slightly. Today's show concerns
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a pivotal role of women in aviation, and I don't
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: know if I ever mentioned this to you, But my grandmother,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: one of my grandmothers, was actually a pilot or trained
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: as one in World War II.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I did not know that then.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It's a true story, Noel. It's a true story. She
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: was a teacher. And in the part of the world
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: where she resided, one of the local programs that the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: government was supporting was to train teachers, some teachers, to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: be pilots in World War II. I don't think she
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: ever passed. shot anyone out of the sky.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: No, that's, that's okay. I mean, she's, you can still
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: be a badass and not have any kills under your belt.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, being a pilot in any kind of war
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: situation is gotta be absolutely harrowing.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, even comparing world war two
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to the modern day, the planes are just so much
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: more dangerous and a dog fight is kind of like
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a knife fight. You know, I don't know if you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: guys have ever Casey, have you ever been in a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: knife fight that you'd be willing to talk about on air?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: None that I'm willing to disclose on air. That's, yeah.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Not even in your private life as LaBouche?
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, that I'm willing to disclose on air.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: So you can think what you want to think.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: You know what they say, though, you guys? They say
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: never bring a knife to a dog fight.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: That is true.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Or a dog to a knife fight, because that would
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: just be cruel.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's no good.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: No, it's definitely no good. Casey on the case. Speaking
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: of which, I am absolutely thrilled to be wearing... One
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: of our patented Casey on the Case t-shirts right now
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: featuring a delightful photo of young Casey Pegram in his
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Macy's catalog modeling days.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like Macy's or JCPenney.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: One of those.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: One of those, yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: You can get one for yourself by going to tpublic.com
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: slash ridiculous history where we have an assortment of fine
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: garments or mouse pads or what have you available.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Perhaps an Upton's ad, if anybody remembers Upton's.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Upton's?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I remember Upton's. It's a department store similar to Dillard's
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: or Macy's.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just another one of those anchor stores at
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the mall, but I think they went away.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Also, for anyone who's thinking, oh, man, I would love
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: a shirt like that. Why don't I have one right now?
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Don't worry, folks. I'm thinking the same thing. I got
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a little snaked, so I'm going to have to find
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: one for myself. I'm right there with you. Today's story,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the protagonist of today's story, deserve T-shirts all their own
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: at the very least. Our story does take place in
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: World War II. It does not take place in the U.S.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It takes place in the Nazi-occupied Soviet Union where German
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: soldiers had a very real and very profound fear of witches,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: but maybe not the kind of witches you might automatically imagine, right?
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Well, no, maybe not, but it certainly was maybe tying
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: into kind of a cultural fear. you know, witches loomed
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: large in German culture, right? Hansel and Gretel, surely others,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Germans are notoriously afraid of witches. Everybody knows that,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: but you're right. They were afraid of a very particular
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: type of witches who were members of the all-female night
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: bomber regiment, which was part of the Soviet air forces.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: And these women flew over 30,000 missions over the course
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: of three years, dropped 23,000 tons of bombs on the Nazis.
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  Speaker 3: And they did all of their flights under the cover
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  Speaker 3: of night, earning them the nickname the Night Witches.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: And this name did not arrive entirely because of the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: time during which they chose to make these bomb runs.
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  Speaker 1: It also came about because of their approach. They were
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: very difficult to detect because they used a very dangerous strategy.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Their planes were made of plywood and canvas. And the best...
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: way that the German soldiers could know there was a
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  Speaker 1: night witch in the area or scouting them out was
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: they would hear the soft whoosh of a plywood and
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: canvas plane. So it's literally like someone silently flying and
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: then hearing a whoosh followed by a cavalcade of explosions.
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  Speaker 1: So each of these planes had a pilot and a navigator,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: all female. Let's talk a little bit about how they
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: came to be. So June of 2019 marks the 77th
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: anniversary of the beginning of the Night Witches. And there's
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of context that pours into this because in
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: June of 1941, Axis powers pushed into the USSR using
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the largest invading force in the history of war, Not
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the history of Russian war, not the history of European war,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: the history of human war.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: That's like saying the history of the world.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. For example, the infamous Operation Barbarossa saw about
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: 4 million troops invade Russia from the West. And because
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: of this operation, Russian leaders began to worry that Moscow
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: itself might be overtaken.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true. And this was, in fact, one of
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  Speaker 3: the most... Bloody and violent, terrible military actions considered atrocities,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: known for its atrocities in World War II. These atrocities
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: were perpetrated against the Russians by the Nazis. And the soldiers,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: the male soldiers of the Soviet Union were heading up
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: the front lines when the forces from the Axis powers
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  Speaker 3: invaded and overtook the capital of Russia. Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: related causes were about 27 million people. And that's a
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: ballpark estimate counting civilian and military.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, they were essentially treated like cannon fodder, right?
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  Speaker 3: They were treated as utterly expendable by the Allied forces, right?
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: So the USSR had several big things going for it
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: in World War II. One, the terrain is notoriously damaged.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: notoriously dangerous and inhospitable. And second, they had a lot
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: of manpower. So the idea was maybe they could overwhelm
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: opponents through the sheer force of numbers alone. But this really,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: this is where we get into things like scorched earth strategies,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the kind of mentality that says, I will, I, like,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: it's sort of like what's similar to the people in
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Fukushima or Chernobyl who, killed themselves, committed suicide to save
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  Speaker 1: the greater population. As people are fighting for what they
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: see as the greater good, everyone is involved. No one
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: is not at war in Russia at this time. And
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning of the USSR involvement in the war,
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  Speaker 1: there is already an active female Soviet pilot. You may
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: have heard her called the Russian Amelia Earhart. Her name
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  Speaker 1: is Colonel Marina Raskova. And while she was an active pilot,
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  Speaker 1: she started receiving letters from women all across Russia who said, look,
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  Speaker 1: I want to join the war. I want to help
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  Speaker 1: any way I can. Let's fight these Nazis. Let's get
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  Speaker 1: these Germans off our land. And many of them would say,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: you know, I work as in a support role, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like I work at a factory making armaments or I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: work at a hospital or something, but I want to
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  Speaker 1: be on the front lines.
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  Speaker 3: They didn't end up being quite on the front lines
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  Speaker 3: because those male Soviet soldiers we talked about who were
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: on the front lines were getting creamed. So the Red
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Army commanders were absolutely... desperate and needed something to help
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  Speaker 3: turn the tide of battle. So in October of 1941,
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  Speaker 3: Stalin himself posted Raskova to head up an all-female squadron,
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  Speaker 3: air squadron to be specific. And this is a historical
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  Speaker 3: thing because this was the only air squadron that was,
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  Speaker 3: according to records, all-female. And it was the 588th Night
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  Speaker 3: Bomber regiment.
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  Speaker 1: And the pilots weren't the only women in the regiment.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone in the 588th was female, from the pilots to
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  Speaker 1: the commanders to the mechanics.
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  Speaker 3: That's right. So this team began to assemble in 1942.
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  Speaker 3: Their ages ranged from 17 to 26 years old, and
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  Speaker 3: they took up residence in a small village by the
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  Speaker 3: name of Ingalls, where they started training. Roscova personally headed
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  Speaker 3: up this training. And she did not take any crap
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: from anybody. She was a very hard-nosed instructor and commander.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yes. There's a great article about this called The Little
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Known Story of the Night Witches, an all-female force in
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: World War II, published in Vanity Fair as well as
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Atlas Obscura by author Eric Grundhauser. And in this, he
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: depicts the way that Raskova immediately immersed her trainees into
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  Speaker 1: the program. They had to shave their heads, right? They
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: had to wear size 42 boots. Supply chain issues were
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: already in full effect at this time in Russia's military history.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: So they didn't have custom uniforms. They had to wear
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: these bulky, ill-fitting uniforms that were made for dude soldiers.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And one of the pilots said it was kind of
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a rough landing for her on the first day. She said,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: we didn't recognize ourselves in the mirror. We saw boys there.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And the problems with adjusting to the pre-existing supplies didn't
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: stop with the uniforms, unfortunately. It continued on to the planes.
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  Speaker 1: They were flying these planes called Polikarpov PO-2s. These are
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: two-seated open cockpit biplanes. These are the plywood ones I
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: was mentioning earlier with the canvas stretched over them. They
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: have absolutely no armor. They're already obsolete by the 40s.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: These are the kind of things that really incentivize you
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  Speaker 1: to fly quietly and in a sneaky way because one
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: shot and boom, you're gone. Kind of like my old
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Saturn SC car I had.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Wrap that one around a tree.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Are you okay?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's fair. These are probably unrelated, though, right?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: These are unrelated. This had nothing to do with World
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: War II.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: That's fair. Now, Ben, remember the Red Baron? Yes. Was
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: he exclusively a Peanuts character, or was that actually a
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: historical fighter pilot? Guy makes great pizza. That's also true.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: But seriously, I really don't know.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, no, I do not. I mean, there's pepperoni.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: No, the Red Baron. He was a Prussian fighter pilot.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: The idea of a plane being made of wood and
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: canvas is unusual, but it wasn't that unusual, right? Because
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: this was like cheap material. It was lightweight. Again, it
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: was quiet.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly. And in previous conflicts, something like this, this
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: style of biplane aircraft would have been fine. It's just
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: so many years had passed and there was already better
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: technology out there, these planes were also pretty slow. And
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: because they had a slower stall speed than the standard
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: German fighters at the time, it made it tough for
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the Axis or the German forces to actually shoot them.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like when there are two cars racing
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and one of them maybe, let's say, is a truck
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: with a big block engine and it can pick up speed.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: But once it gets up to a high speed, it
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: has a tough time slowing down. So what would have
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: ordinarily been a disadvantage for these aircraft actually made them
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: tougher to hit. Also, again, these are exposed cockpits, and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this is Russia.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. I can only imagine. Again, that's why
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I picture the Red Baron. There's also a detail about
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: these planes that did not give them a particularly good advantage.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: They had to fly pretty low, which would make sense
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: for them to be flying at night. But, gosh, during
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: a regular dogfight during the day, it seems very, very challenging.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: You'd be kind of like a sitting duck. But here's
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: a question, too, Ben. These open cockpits, like they wore
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: some kind of like protection over their faces, right, to
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: keep them from. Sure.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Goggles and probably the probably the whole nine, the leather,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the little skull cap thing with the strap that you
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: would buckle under your chin. Yeah, I would imagine so.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: But here's the thing. The women of the 588th were unthwarted.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: They were absolutely ready to go and do whatever it took.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: to pitch into the war effort. So after their first
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: bombing run, which took place on June 1942, they absolutely,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: not obliterated, but definitely slowed down the Nazi forces with
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: these overnight bombing runs and continued till the end of
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: the war.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. At their height, so it started first bombing
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: on June 8th, 1942. And at the height of their strength,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: they had 42-person crews, each which were flying, get this
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: multiple runs as soon as the sun set. The record
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: would be like 18 runs a night. Why would you
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: make 18 incredibly dangerous bombing runs, you may ask? It's
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: because the planes could only carry six bombs at a time.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So as soon as they dropped those six, provided they survived,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: they flew back, got another six bombs, and then flew
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: back again. This meant that there was also a tightly
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: controlled weight limit. That's part of why they flew at
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: lower altitudes, but that's also the reason they could not
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: bring parachutes. Jeez.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: That is pretty bold. And using that cover of night
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: was crucial. There was no way around it. The three
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: planes would leave at one time, and then two would
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: kind of act as almost– or they would draw fire,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: enemy fire, and then the last one would do the
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: bomb run. And they also had to, like, Prius-style, like,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: kill their engines so that they would just glide over
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: it before they dropped their payload.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And then start the engine again.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: And then start the engine and get out of there.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, absolute badassery.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's some psyop going on here as well because–
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: The whooshing sound, we already mentioned that freaked the German
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: soldiers out, but they are also the source of the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: name Night Witches. Once they had learned that this was
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: indeed a crew of female combatants and bombers, the misogyny
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: kicked in, and it was even more injurious to them
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: on some level that they were getting creamed by female
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: forces instead of Russian dudes. And the Germans started, you know,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: in the fog of war, so much strange speculation thrives.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: The Germans started saying that the Soviet forces were changing
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the women somehow, experimenting on them to give them, quote,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the night vision of a cat.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: That's right. The Germans would have referred to them natively
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: as the Nachthexen or the night witches. And one of them, Nadetsia? Popova,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go with that one, she flew roughly
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: 850 missions, and she received the title of Hero of
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: the Soviet Union. And in Albert Axel's book, Greatest Russian
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: War Stories, 1941 to 1945, she's quoted as saying, this
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: was nonsense, of course. What we had were clever, educated,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: very talented girls.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Ooh.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And fighting against this, for some reason, tell me what
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: you think about this, folks. For some reason, this gives
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: me a League of Their Own vibe in a much
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: more dangerous field because they had to deal with fighting
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: a war against ruthless opponents, but they also had to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: deal with misogyny from people who should have been supporting them.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Members of the Soviet military were still very dismissive of
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: the idea of women flying in general, let alone in combat.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't give these soldiers, these pilots, these mechanics, anyone
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: on the 588th, the credit they deserved at the time.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And the inspiring thing here, especially for any of us
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: listening who have been in a situation where you have
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to confront institutionalized misogyny, these women doubled down. They didn't care.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: They were not cowed. they did not say, Oh no,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: let's let the dudes fly the planes or whatever. They said, yes,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: we're women. We're pilots. We're killers. We do what we want.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: And if you have a tough time with it, go
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: pout somewhere else. Yeah.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: But unfortunately the, the brass, you know, the Russian military
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: brass weren't super kind to, to these women. And I
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: think there was even like a, incentive in among the
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: germans to to uh any to give a an iron
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: cross which i think was one of the highest um
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: awards you can get in the german army if you
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: shot down one of these women so they were hated
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: on both sides just kind of a kind of a
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: rough situation to be in.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Fortunately While the wheels of justice grind slow, they grind
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: exceedingly fine. And the members of the Night Witches were
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: eventually recognized, such as the example you had mentioned earlier,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Noel Popova, who got the title of Hero of the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Soviet Union and the multiple medals. By the end of
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: World War II, the 588th had flown around 30,000 bombing
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: raids worldwide. which translates to 23,000 tons of explosives or munitions,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: they also lost a lot of people. They lost 30
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: pilots during the war, which is an unbelievably low number
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: when you consider what those planes were made of, their
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: technical constraints. And the fact that these people were often
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: using the same strategy repeatedly, not over the course of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the war, but sometimes as much as 18 times a night.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like how many times if
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you're in charge of the searchlight on the German side,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: how many times do you fall for that? Two planes
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: fly in opposite directions without checking where the bombs are
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: coming from, you know?
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good question. They weren't even given
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: their own sized uniforms. They had to take kind of
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: tattered hand-me-downs from other soldiers who I don't know if
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: they had like died or what, but that'd be pretty morbid.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: But no, they were absolutely treated like second class citizens.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: You know, this is it reminds me.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Have you seen that video that compares men's soccer and
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: women's soccer? And it's like a scene from American Sniper
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: where it's Bradley Cooper as the sniper and it shows
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: him like, you know, cocking back the gun and like
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: looking through the scope. And then you see him shooting
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: at a male soccer player and they fall down and
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: like grab their knees and start like cringing and crying
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: because apparently in male soccer. dudes are just always taking
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: dives because it's like it gives them an edge or
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: they're able to get like penalty. I don't know.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Because unless the referee absolutely sees what happened, they can't
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: say you're faking.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It is technically, I think, and someone tell us more
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: about this. I believe it's technically on the books. illegal
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to do that but it's very tough to prove.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: It there's lots of footage of it and then compare
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: that with footage of women's soccer where they literally stand
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: up and spit their teeth out and just keep you
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: know marching forward um there is absolutely an element to
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: that in this story uh so popova who we spoke
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: about earlier in an article from the atlantic there's a
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: great great quote from her talking about walking away from
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: a bombing raid with 42 bullet holes in her little
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: wooden plane You would think it would have just shredded
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: the thing, Ben. Like, I mean, God, to take a
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: hit like that in the air in a plane made
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: of wood and like canvas, that is just absolutely terrifying.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine having that level of bravery. Right.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And let's also consider how young a lot of these
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: people were. They were not experienced soldiers. They were ranging
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in age from 17 to 26. And many of us
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: who have had military service in the background may say, well,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I've met some people in their mid-20s who unfortunately.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Have a ton.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Of a very, very harrowing experience fighting domestically and abroad.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: That's true. But at this time, in 1941, until Stalin
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: gave these orders, no other nation officially allowed women to
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: engage in combat. Previously, women could help transfer planes and ammunition,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: after which they would say, all right, it's time for
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the boys to take over or whatever. And when the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Night Witches did this, Again, we cannot overemphasize how it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Was a crappy gig. Absolutely.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: It was a crappy gig.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: They didn't even get things like radar, guns, and radios.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: They had to use rulers, stopwatches, flashlights, pencils.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And not to poo-poo the Soviet Union or anything too much.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: That's not what we're here to do. But if you
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: have read about the story of Chernobyl, you realize that
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: a lot of the equipment that the folks had were substandard.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: They didn't have enough radiation suits. They didn't have meters
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: that even reached the levels of contamination that were present
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: in some of these situations. So that seems to be
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: sort of a legacy thing, having, you know, kind of
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: substandard equipment.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Yes. Oh, and I want to clarify there. When we
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: said six bombs apiece, that's six bombs per raid, not
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: six bombs per plane. The planes could each only carry
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: two bombs at a time, one under each wing. So
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: when three planes flew out, that was a total of
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: six bombs they could drop while the other two members
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of the flight or the raid were running scrimmage or
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: making a distraction there. They also had, this was really cool,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: this is something I couldn't find in full yet, and
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear if someone else has found this.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: The commandments?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh, the 12 commandments of the Night Witches. The one
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that we found in the first one was be proud
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: that you are a woman. There are 11 others. We've
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: got we've got to find them. The last flight of
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the night, which is took place around May 4th, 1945.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: At this time, they flew within 37 miles or 60
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: kilometers to everybody in any country other than what the U.S.,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Namibia and Myanmar.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: They they got.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: 37 miles or 60 kilometers close to Berlin. And this
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: was three days before Germany officially surrendered. We do know
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that the Germans had two theories about why these women
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: were successful. Spoiler alert, neither of those theories have anything
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: to do with their ability as pilots or as professionals.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: The first theory is that they had been given these
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: special injections and experiments that turned them into pilots. people
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: with supervision. And the second was that they were all
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: criminals who were masters at stealing, like the idea of
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the Russian thief-in-law, and had been sent to the front
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: line as punishment. So they were conscripted, hardcore criminals. That's
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the only way they could get away with these cunning,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: brazen acts.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: And during that really pretty brief four-year period, 41 to 45,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: the night which is operated, they lost 30 pilots. And
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: then the 23 pilots, not all of them, but 23
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: of the remaining pilots, including Popova, who we talked about earlier,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: were given that very high honor of heroes of the
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Soviet Union. Interestingly enough, the squad was never disbanded and
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: it actually just was given a new name and continued on.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: And it was called the much less intriguing sounding 46th
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Taman Guards Night Bomber Aviation Regiment. which continued to be
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: a mainstay in the Soviet Union's mixed gender forces.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And we should also mention that they weren't just raining death.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: They also performed 155 supply drops of food and ammo
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to Soviet forces. And here's one of the last facts
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I found. Let's file this under that's a kicker. Despite
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: being the most highly decorated unit in the Soviet Air
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Force during the war, After they were disbanded and became
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: part of this other grouping, there was this big Victory
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Day parade in Moscow. And the Night Witches were not
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: included because, according to the management, their planes were too slow.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: But that's like the whole point, man. That's not their fault.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: They were forced to use those planes. They were given
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: the leftovers.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe they should have had the parade at night. I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Seriously.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: To keep it on brand.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Aren't parades pretty slow usually, though? I mean, I don't
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: see how that would be a detractor.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I've never organized a Victory Day
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: parade after a war. Although I do want to go
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to New Orleans and hire my own parade. Do you
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: know you could do that? I told you that, right?
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: No, what?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, next time I'm in New Orleans, I think parade
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: prices are incredibly reasonable in New Orleans. And you can,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: especially in the off season, you can pay a group
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: of people, not particularly princely some, and they'll just do
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: a parade for you.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: How much are we talking?
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: A few hundred, yeah.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: And does this include floats?
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: No, this would be, I think we're talking a few hundred.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: We're talking about just the musicians. Which I think is great.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Like a second line parade. It feels like a better parade.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: That would be a lot more fun. I don't need
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: a float that's in the shape of my giant head. No, no.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Custom floats. You're getting into Mardi Gras territory. I don't know.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: What about Casey? Would you ever have a parade? Would
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: you ever purchase a parade for yourself?
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: No, definitely not.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: For someone else then?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe for somebody else. If they did something really,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: really special. Maybe, yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Casey on the case. I am going to embarrass the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: hell out of you when we get to New Orleans, Casey.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Just forget about it and act surprised later.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Will do.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I think that's all we got for today, right, Ben?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So ends our tale of the heroic Night Witches,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: one of the chapters of World War II history that
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I think is very, familiar to a lot of our
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Russian listeners, but maybe news to some of us in
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the West. We want to hear your stories of other
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: World War II heroes or strange tales that you think
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: your fellow listeners would enjoy. You can find us on
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Facebook at Ridiculous Historians. You can also find us on
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you want to find us individually on Instagram,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I hang out with my kid and occasionally travel, mainly domestically,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: but I'm hoping to get out of the country one
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: of these days too so I can match Ben's sick
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Instagram adventures. But my slightly more underwhelming adventures are at HowNowNoelBrown.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I think you're beating yourself up there a little bit, Noel.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: It's a thing I do.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Circumstances will probably find both of us overseas sooner than
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you think. In the meantime, you can find me getting
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: kicked into and out of various places at Ben Bolin,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: named to what I would only describe as a burst
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of creativity. But hey, guys, you might be saying, I...
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I don't really like the social needs, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Those aren't my cup of vodka or cup of needs.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: There we go. But I do have an email. I
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: got around to that. So can I just contact you
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: guys that way? We have good news for you. You
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: can email us directly. We are ridiculous at I heart
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: radio dot com. Big thanks to our super producer, Casey Pegram,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: as always. Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Christopher Haciotis,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: friend of the show, friend inside of our hearts. Gabe Luzier,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: also Yves Jeffcoat, who will be on our show pretty soon,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: spoiler alert. And we'd like to welcome Ryan Barish.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the family, Ryan Barish, who will be helping
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: us with some research moving forward. See you next time, folks.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.