Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Five Tips for Holiday Expectations | guest Deanna Sudom

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Five Tips for Holiday Expectations | guest Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Jingle balls, plates of cookies, turkey trots, and Christmas wishes.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's that time of year again.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Can you believe it?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I'm Amy Wicks, a wife, mom, author, certified coach, and host of this Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the 7th annual Advent Series, where you'll hear about the practical rhythms for cultivating gratitude and celebration this holiday season.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Let's usher in this time of year with a ton of excitement because Christ's birth is something that has changed everything for you and for me.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to share the powerful conversations with you about new Christmas musicals, finding peace in the chaos, sharing favorite holiday traditions, and even how to have healthier expectations this holiday season.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: I pray this wholehearted take on the Avon season blesses you richly, sweet friend.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Merry Christmas.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hey friend, when I say the word expectation, what comes to mind?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: A feeling of hope, a sense of disappointment, or a point of frustration?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, expectations.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: We've all got them whether we want them or not.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I wanted to take time with a fellow wholehearted coach, Deanna Sudum, to unpack the word expectation specifically in light of the holiday season.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what exactly are expectations?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, expectations are beliefs, hopes, or assumptions about specific outcomes, behaviors, or events.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: And expectations can be either positive or negative, and they may relate to various aspects of life, including relationships, personal goals, work, or special occasions like holidays.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And expectations in and of themselves are not inherently bad or good.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's about how we manage and navigate them, which determines their impact.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Deanna and I will continue to unpack this topic together with meaningful conversation.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to offer five tips to help you navigate expectations that you can implement today, plus an invitation for each Enneagram type this holiday season.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Here we are.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's officially the holiday season.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thanksgiving is this week.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, you, Deanna, Thanksgiving was so last month.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're way past that already.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was the beginning of October.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think the Canadians have it right though.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm all about US Thanksgiving being celebrated early October.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: It just would be way better, I think, for all of us.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you could have a real separation when Christmas actually starts.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing people say November 1st, and I'm like, but you haven't done your Thanksgiving yet.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, probably anticipation is better to me than the actual event, even because I'm not necessarily great at savoring because I'm already thinking about the next thing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I just think the US should change their laws and adopt Canadian Thanksgiving and celebrate it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm probably not going to get anyone to listen to me to change the laws.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: So for those of us in the US, Thanksgiving is Thursday.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought it would be really helpful to offer five tips to help us navigate holiday expectations.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that you have a message on your heart to speak to this idea of expectation.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: So we're going to unpack it per point of these five points, but I'm also going to throw in a little benefit of talking about an upstream practice for online types because, right, we just need sometimes a tangible thing to help us go in a different direction.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where the upstream practice idea comes in.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk more about that later.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: But this word expectations, it's a big one.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's loaded.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me a little bit about your idea of expectations.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Are they good?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Are they bad?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think it is a loaded question.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I always have had this message on my heart for quite a long time, actually thinking book-wise.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And because I believe that expectations, when they're unrealistic, can ruin relationships.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I read, Donald Miller said, when you can stop expecting people to be perfect, you can like them for who they are.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a good one.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I think our expectations are undercover control.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to control the situations and the people, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other person.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that unrealistic expectations, and that's the key word, I think, is they're unrealistic.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think I don't think expectations are neither good nor bad in and of themselves, but when they're unrealistic, they're usually rooted in our own needs and not necessarily in the capabilities of the other person.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking about that in this, we create premeditated resentment, I think.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So often we look to people to fulfill our needs.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm speaking out of experience from this.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I believe I haven't written my book yet because God hasn't fully taken me through the whole process.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we look for people to heal us in broken places.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I don't think that's even conscious.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it it is from some kind of a victim mindset or some kind of brokenness that we haven't officially really looked at yet.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it just sets up people to fail.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've watched it in my own life and in my own family and what that looks like.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, because the truth is that God is the only one that can fulfill us, but we keep looking for these human replacements, you know?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I love this verse in Psalm, and this is kind of when I was thinking about writing was Psalm 62.5 says, My soul waits silently for God alone.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: My expectation is in him.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I believe God changes our paradigm of love when we sit with him and when we can when we can recognize when we're doing this to other people and even to our own self as we have these unrealistic expectations and waiting for somebody to just fill them when we're not really looking at what the issue probably is.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think the gap between unrealized expectations and reality is filled with disappointment.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes intentional, sometimes really uncomfortable, hard conversations to narrow the gap there.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my little preface of what I feel like expectations can do in relationships with each other.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: I love the fact that you're highlighting this idea of unrealistic expectations because getting clear on our expectations is helpful.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: And part of the awareness process is vetting, is this unrealistic or not?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: And in the process, I never want to just slap a band-aid over it or say suppress or push down.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: You just shouldn't have expectations.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's not realistic.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's not human.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: But how can we exchange it for holy anticipation?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Where we can have anticipation that the Lord is going to do something on our behalf, which I think is part helping bridge that gap where we are in that liminal space of where we have an expectation.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: We're trying to exchange it for holy anticipation.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: But what would what do we do in the meantime if it's not getting met or if we're still waiting?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: I've even like this sounds very dramatic and very moody for of me, but like the room of disappointment, when we are feeling like we're stuck in that room of disappointment where expectations continue to go unmet, I think that's what we get to process through a little bit.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, when you're sitting in that room, you keep looking for things to match what you're feeling, or you keep looking for you're just biased because you keep seeing things that have been disappointed.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think your heart turns a little bit biased.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll find them.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you find what you're looking for, right?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's good or whether it's bad.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if the underlying uh portion of that is just hurt and disappointment and sadness, then you're going to see things that will confirm that for you.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's good.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Focus of attention, which I'm wondering, tell me a little bit more about this phrase, premeditated resentments.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, whoa, my drop.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: That there's something there.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So would you unpack that just a little bit for us?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe we could become more aware if we have the premeditated resentments.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: I believe I have heard this, and usually I'm great at quoting who it was that I heard it from, but there's nothing new under the sun.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's excuse.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have said this in that we create premeditated resentments.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're expecting somebody to fulfill a need in us and they can't hear us, for some reason, the language isn't connecting, or they just have biases from other relationships where it's difficult for them to hear that tone or that the reason or why it needs to happen.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And usually, I think most of the time, we just want to be seen and loved.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we set expectations up, we set the stage for there to be resentment coming from the other person.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like this premeditated, we're not creating that, but we create the space for that to be able to happen.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or that can slip in.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I think I wanted to highlight that phrase because this is why we're talking about it now.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because I have often heard, usually pre-holiday, post-holiday, some fear around going into these days.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe not because there's a big loss or there's some grief they're dealing with, but it's the expectations, expectations of kids, of family, of themselves, of the people who want their help for something, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: So how do we deal with the holiday-related disappointments when expectations aren't met?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because there is an element of it's bound to happen at some level.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll just use myself as an example first and maybe go from there.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I was reminded actually from a client about the word equanimity, which is a big word for my type, which is a type four.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we grow into it, which means equanimity basically means that we remain calm without being affected by our overwhelming emotions, which is what a type four is known for, to be emotional and to feel all the things.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So practicing this and giving my expectations to God beforehand, so it can turn into an expectancy that he can do something in it, and it's not just what I'm doing or that it's preventative in that way.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So looking toward him, I mean, even setting your mind there, I think, and having him as your focal point, that he's going to be the one, that we can have expectancy in him, and everything else that happens really is a bonus because we're working around personalities and people and stress and all of the things that come with it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when we can just actually put our focus on him and remember why we're having the holiday seasons, then it changes the way that we think about what's going to happen.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, there is a it just thinking through that concept, there's a burden lifted off, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: If we're already experiencing the fullness of what it is that we are desire just because we get to celebrate and we get to honor the fact that our we have a hope uh to hold on to for all of eternity, then it is everything else is the cherry on top, or maybe double whipped cream, and we could be good.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And if that really could become our focus of attention, man, that does change everything.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's really powerful.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking that I'll use a quick example for my life right now.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have two children that are getting married next year, and they're getting married within a month of each other.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was listening to my son when he called his grandma, my stepmom, and told her about them getting married.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we already knew about his sister.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she just said, This is gonna be an awesome year.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yes, this is the frame, this is the lens that we're going to use, even though it's gonna be crazy and busy and wild and like marrying off the last of our two children and all of those things.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's just the whole let's can we change the framework to just think it's the holidays, you know?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, let's celebrate.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if we get in each other's hair during it, that's okay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just part of it, it's part of the family.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't take lightly for sure when there's grief involved and when there's hurt and when there's betrayals and all of those things, too.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think just changing the frame, the lens of it, it just gives us a whole different perspective.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's powerful.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited to invite our friend listening today to try that on, especially if there's some dread there.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Again, loss, we're not looking for you to reframe loss and grief and all of that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: But if there's some other things that are within the realm of, do I just need to put a word there of wow, that's so exciting and this is so amazing and that's so good?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Except, and not ignore the hardship, but also choose again at that focal point.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: What is it that we're going to be meditating on and keeping how to keep our eyes on the horizon?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I love this the philosophical like element to it, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the spiritual and where do we put our heart?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: I also think we can be practical about laying out and utilizing specific tips for holiday expectations.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I typically have five steps, five things that I like to talk about on a regular basis.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I've actually done this for years in different formats, whether it was the special holiday challenge and invited women into that or going through this stuff with clients, inviting this community at different points.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I like to look, first of all, to reflect on past holidays.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I focus on four categories specifically as I'm taking this first step, which is I'm looking at the budget, I'm looking at family dynamics, activities, and travel.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm asking questions like what worked well and what didn't?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: And what were the good moments, but what also caused stress or disappointment?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then ultimately learning from those past experiences so I can guide future expectations for myself and others.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll talk more about that in a little bit.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: But for you, what does that look like when you take that step of looking at past holidays and what you're taking into this year?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot, especially if we start with budget.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's been a little bit of a point of contention, shall we say?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, but um, even in that, I just think it's what's still a work in progress.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I've been trying to convince my family for a few years to pick names so that we can, especially as our family grows and we now have five grandchildren, and of course the cost is greater.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um we did actually last year, yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Last year we stopped and we picked names, and this year we did it at Thanksgiving, and um so all of that, even just that type of thing, bringing it into saying, look at we don't expect everybody to spend a lot of money on Christmas.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't the reason why we're getting together, but we still can have fun and give gifts to each other.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is a big part of it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as your other ones were family, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And activities and travel.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've actually done a couple holidays where we've traveled, gone away to we went on a cruise one time when the kids were smaller, and it was a gong show.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't really imagine we didn't really have those conversations, but it just and the things that it were was we went to the airport, we left Christmas Day because we thought, oh, this is so fun.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: We get to leave on Christmas Day because we'll be flying away from the snow and doing all of this, and we get to the airport at whatever time in the morning, and nothing was open, like there was zero zilch, we hadn't fed anybody because we'd eaten all our food because we were gonna be gone for all those days, and that's hilarious.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to all of and everybody in the airport was doing that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we're rushing to all of these vending machines, trying to at least get a bag of chips at nine in the morning.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So just those kind of things that traveling comes with its own set of circumstances.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole other conversation that you need to have with your family.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think overall, the overarching thing in all of this is having those conversations beforehand.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Pre-conversations save lives.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: If I can be that dramatic.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it does.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: At the very least, it saves relationships because where I wouldn't, I always invite my people into do this reflection process on your own as an individual, getting really clear.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: And for some people, that's a little bit harder than others to get clear on what they want, but do that and then invite other people in.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes that's the just the people in your own house, or it might be the extended family that you need to communicate these things to, or to, or maybe you're the type of person that you do want to hear what expectations others have of you, and you're willing to take that into the process.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone has different dynamics or boundaries that are needed, and and there's personality plays into that.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's all of that can be so helpful.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: But first, taking this right for you as the individual doing that reflection, because that will help really inform as you make future decisions.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: So for you this year, Deanna, uh, because the idea is here we look past and then we go, what are our expectations for this holiday season?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: What are you looking at or what have you been taking with you and are taking with you into this year as you navigate the nuances of, like you said, you drew names in October.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that gave you a lot of time to do the shopping, which I love.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: See another reason to pull for the October Thanksgiving instead of November when you have like sometimes less than four weeks to say anyway.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of it that we do as well and set ourselves up for failure and in even as a mom or as a grandma is trying to keep everyone happy.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been changing for me and just seeing we all bring our own dynamics.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I said, like in my own family now with all of us and my kids all having significant others, sitting around the table, we're all we're almost all representing each type of the Enneagram.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so imagine that.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I think it's great.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's pretty fun, and it's fun to navigate that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But my ex-in-laws had kind of set up an expectation all the years that I was married before, and they always wanted us their Christmas Eve every year, like no no deviating from that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to travel to go to my family.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in that season, I did not deal with that well, and there was probably a little bit of resentment there, but now I see that it set me up to not be that, to not be an in-law that has expectations that way.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what we do now, we did this year.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: This was my test year or my launch year as we were all together at Thanksgiving.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, you guys, this is what we desire.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: We desire for us all to be together at some time.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: During the holiday season, and it doesn't have to be a specific day.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you all to you all have your own families now, and then you have your families of origin, and then there's us.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so we just want to, you know, give you that space.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about when we can get together this Christmas, when it works, we all actually agreed.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was quite lovely.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's amazing.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's after Christmas.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So just having that conversation.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big deal.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then everybody felt because otherwise we were waiting right up until the day before, and or right up until the week before.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing my husband always does is take vacation for those last two weeks because his birthday is on the 31st.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so usually we've been celebrating closer to his birthday.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's good.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was just really, it was a great conversation.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all set up for success in that right now.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: What a beautiful gift you're giving as the matriarch, the mom, and the mother-in-law beautifully sets up this the third tip, which is setting boundaries.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And the framework I'd love to give for boundaries ultimately, we could have a whole conversation about boundaries during the holiday season, but the three ideas here with setting boundaries is to communicate, be clear, and be kind.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay that if someone expresses that they want you there on Christmas Eve to respond in kind, saying, and not ignore the text, not just pretend like you didn't get it because you don't want to answer or you don't want to be there.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Instead, kindly say, thank you so much for this invitation.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: That won't work for our family.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: Is there another time that we could make this happen?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Very simple, right?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be a whole argument.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it is not up to the sender to control the emotional response of the receiver.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that is part of the pain of boundary setting and communicating that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in all of this, we are all going to have those situations where we got clear in our expectations.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: We stated healthier ones, our focal of attention is good, but maybe not everyone else is getting on the bandwagon.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to just give that point here of set the boundary, be kind, be clear, communicate it.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then you'll have to keep going on.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where if your spouse needs to be part of this conversation, please invite them into it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And hopefully you guys can support each other, especially if it's with family situations and things like that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just curious, would you have anything you want to add to that concept of boundaries, Deanna?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's really great, Amy.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking too that really the heart is, I think as a mother myself, I just want to be around my children and I just want my family together.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think really that's where the heart comes from, even with my exes.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I believe they they just it was tradition for them and they loved that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: They loved everybody being together.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it just didn't always work.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't have you around me then to teach me a good line to communicate with boundaries.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I think that I think what you said was brilliant.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to add any more to that for sure.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: We all can be guilty of the all or nothing dichotomy framework that we each uniquely operate in.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And this is one of those moments where I think boundaries need us to be aware of where we can get to the all or nothing again, where we just don't ignore or say we can't do anything at all in order to hold our ground, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Where we can come to that middle place of that doesn't work for me, but what could work?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: So all of our relationships need a little bit of compromise and bending from each one of us.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: So all right.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: My fourth tip is how do you navigate family dynamics during the holidays?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: And this is that next step.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: You already got clear on your boundaries, but what does it look like when you're at the table and Uncle Phil has very different beliefs than you and is so outspoken and maybe dogmatic and insulting in the process, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: We can think of all those different things or weird recipes or traditions that maybe you're uncomfortable with, or sometimes it's just you don't like.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: But for you, what kind of wisdom can you give us is how do we get clear on how we're gonna navigate them?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: But how have you as well navigated during the holidays in order to just make it a little bit smoother?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's good.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is when you lay out your expectations or you've nailed them down for yourself, and then you think through all of the people and you think, okay, what is this gonna look like for this person?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and what if there is that conversation?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think more and more, even as I am coaching more or sitting with people, it's just meeting them right where they're at.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And just because we don't agree with somebody doesn't mean we have to kick them out of the family and or not have the conversation.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it is sometimes difficult to do that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: But just meeting them, being curious about it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I really like the word curious lately.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that that's interesting that you believe that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me why you do?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me how you came to that conclusion?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me what your experience is in that?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um those kind of things can set people at ease too, and it doesn't need to come from a posture of like they're ready to have a fight about it because they know their beliefs are different than ours or whatever that looks like.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do practical things, like I we have a member of our family that needs her space, and so we rent a hotel room and she stays there instead of staying in our home.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And some people don't have capacity for extended family grief gatherings, but I think we expect that because we're like, oh, this is only happens once a year, and all of those kind of things, which is another unrealistic expectation when you're coming into people gathering together.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we try to do a variety of activities that will hit each person, and now it's trickier.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much our gatherings now are just chasing after the children playing the games and just seeing the little personalities and which who likes what and what that looks like and what's going to work.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, we always hope for weather that's warm enough that they don't freeze as soon as they hit the air.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we always have to play those by ear.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Usually I try and find a facility that's open that we can go and take them to if it's too cold outside.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one of our Canadian winter things that we have.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think a lot of what helps is those conversations ahead of time.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: You gave that brilliant idea and you demonstrated you had that conversation in October about what Christmas is going to look like, which isn't always easy for every personality type.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: Again, we're oriented to time in a unique way.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so for you as a four to be thinking forward, brilliant, like not easy for you to do.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you you learned that from re being reflective on the past and going, okay, wait a minute, let's think ahead this year.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Different conversations like that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is so forward thinking, you're gonna laugh.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I was actually having conversations about this year's Christmas in April of this year, maybe even March.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that sounds so obnoxious, but a family member made a really big plan for their Christmas.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I knew right away, oh, this is going to be the have a huge ripple effect.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Not necessarily bad, but it was really going to impact it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew I needed to have conversations ahead of time.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Cause for me, wanting it, I have to carry three birthdays and other sides of the family, different things like that, and dynamics of travel because we are the family that's away.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: So we usually get to travel everywhere to every side of the family.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that has been really helpful and just to ask and have those conversations.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm one who typically wants to try to blend everybody's together.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I've grown a lot coming in first with what is it that I want and what am I willing to compromise on and not try to make everyone happy, but to make it the most fun for me, which is that's I really I got clear on that goal, surprise, surprise, and following through that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: That that has been really helpful.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then following all of these steps beforehand, even before I even pull the family's opinion into it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: The overall thing, too, for me is this last tip, and that is about holiday soul care.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: So soul care is universal all year long, very doesn't matter what season, we need soul care.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think during the holiday season, we need more of it, but we have less time for it.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, what are some of the practices that you've engaged in just to keep your heart and that focal of attention, but focus of attention on the right thing and just to feel as you are pouring out and doing more during the holiday season?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think about it, actually, it it actually frees me a little bit more.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have that selfish motive intended, but what to actually focus on because Christmas is just so rich for me, and just being able to celebrate the savior, and not everybody in our family is in that space right now, and so by not having them around an actual Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, um, that is something that my husband and I get to do and be really intentional about.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: We usually always watch the nativity story, the movie, and we usually always go to a Christmas Eve service somewhere and just kind of reflect and remember what that God came as a little baby and in flesh.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: That always is so mind-blowing to me that he put flesh on to come and save us.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is usually, and then we'll gather with friends and family, but that's usually secondary for me around those particular dates, anyway.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think that in that way, and then we can celebrate in the way that the kids do and the grandkids.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'm always pulling Jesus in with the grandkids for sure, and doing activities around that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I care for my own soul, anyways, and my husband's we're on the same page with that for sure.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: That is beautiful.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's perfect to jump into the upstream practice for each type.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: So when you hear the word upstream practice, it's maybe a new word or phrase, but what does it mean?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds good.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: It also maybe sounds a little woo-woo, or you've heard it used um in certain circles.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And what does that even mean?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think of it literally as if you are having to swim upstream.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: You hop in a river, preferably warmer, and you're swimming against the flow and you're going upward.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it's not typical always, and it's not easy, but it is possible.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens in the process if you are swimming upstream instead of going with the flow?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're building strength, you're building endurance and muscle.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you're having to work a little bit harder, but it's not impossible.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's very doable.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: And over time, it becomes natural.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: And because you're building strength in the process, you're getting faster and better, and you can more easily hop in the stream and go against the flow of what your type does.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what we're talking about an upstream practice for each type.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Your personality is tends to flow in the same direction.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's part of our motivations, desires, our coping mechanisms.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: It just tends to be, again, our focus of attention, even.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: So now we're gonna talk about what will help us go a little bit different direction, which I see it as enlarging our soul, growing our capacity to love others and to engage in this holiday season with healthier expectations.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay, we're gonna just go in order one to nine.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, nines today, you do go last.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: But for the type one, the invitation is to recognize that imperfections and spontaneity can add charm to the holiday season.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: For the type two, don't just ask for help.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Seek it out and invite others to the preparation process.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: For the type three, enjoy the simplicity and let go of the need for excellence in your experiences of the season.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: For the type four, Deanna, I invited you to weigh in on this one.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you should read it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote to practice gratitude and stay in community, fellowship, and feasting together.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just learned the definition more of feasting together and just being with other people.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: It gets us out of our minds.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that we would naturally move towards, but it is great when it happens as long as as well as practicing gratitude.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Five is find a balance between solitude and connecting with loved ones.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's my wing.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I agree with that, finding a balance because we do need the solitude.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: The solitude is our downstream practice, the one that is easy, comes easy for us to do, but it still helps us to process our emotions.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Type six, relax your plan and entrust some of the responsibility to others.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's gonna be a tricky one for some sixes, I'm thinking.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, but so good and so rich when they can.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that if they followed these other five tips, they can be in that place of where they've declared their boundaries, gotten clear on their expectations, had the conversations, and now they can relax and trust others who love them well.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: For the type seven, the invitation is to find contentment in the simplicity of familiar traditions, not just new ones or having to create new adventures.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: The overarching theme for the seven, and I'm speaking to this as a seven, is savor.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Can you savor the moment, savor the time, savor what it is right now?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then for the eights, embrace the holiday spirit of giving and collaboration.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now, eights I know are very generous, and I'm not trying to elude here that you would possibly be stingy, but it's the generosity of relinquishing some control and allowing others to put their ideas into the hat or maybe onto the table and ultimately collaborating with others to what that holiday looks like that everyone will enjoy.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: And last but not least, the nine invitation is to express your desires and add your voice to the holiday planning.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: You think that might be good for a nine, Deanna?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I believe so.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that your presence matters just as much as anybody else there.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why we're gonna invite you to go all the way to the beginning of these tips, right?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Get clear on the expectations for you.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're having fun asking the same questions of our guests this year for the app in season, but then also we're going to have a special coming up where all nine types get to weigh in.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're just gonna do a quick rapid fire with you, Deanna, to hear your heart.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we got to hear a lot of personal things.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm learning all sorts of things in our time together that we probably wouldn't have covered on Voxer.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's great for you.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: What does an Enneagram for add to the celebration table at the holiday?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do add in that piece of reflection.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we tried this the last year and that did not work, or just reflecting on what God's done.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually how I process my relationship with him a lot, is in reflection, what he's done for us.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Fun.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: We bring in fun.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a fun for.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: You are for sure.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of laughter.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fun and uh a little bit silly and goofy.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I like being silly and goofy with the grandkids and creative for games and activities.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'm mindful of other people's feelings.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can feel all the things of all the people.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so just recognizing if somebody needs a break or needs some time alone or that type of thing, I can bring that for sure.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so good.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's your favorite ornament or decoration?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: What has to be out in order to feel like Christmas?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: What has to be out usually is I bought a great big nativity doing the, oh now I can't remember what they're called.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but my favorite ornament, somebody gave us one of these about probably 20 years ago, and I've put it on my tree ever since.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a nail with a red ribbon tied around it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I put it in the middle of the tree, and it just reminds us of our savior that he came as a baby but was later crucified.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just represents all of that, and he died for our forgiveness of our sins and to give us eternal life.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really simple.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I like simple, just simple, pretty things.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is simple and a great reminder of why we are celebrating.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: I actually have the same exact ornament that I think I got probably about 20 years ago as well.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that is just so fun.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be putting it up thinking Deanna is the same one.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: That is awesome.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: And last but not least for today, what is the most Enneagram for thing that you've done this year?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: What is most reflective of your personality?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, my husband and I went on a three-week driving vacation around the states.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: We went through 10 states and three provinces, traveled 7,500 kilometers.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was the best three weeks.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could probably mark that up in my life that I've enjoyed as far as my husband and I have never spent that much time alone together because we've always had kids.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've been married 18 years, but there's always been kids in the relationship.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was really just so sweet.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was really incredible.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as I think about it being a four-ish thing, it was really unique.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was something that we we did off our cuff.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't plan a lot of things, we didn't book hotel rooms, we didn't do whatever.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: We just went day by day, and it was really just refreshing.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was tired when I got home, but yes, you were.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was too.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably one of my favorite things that's really cool that I've done in ministry is marry people.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we love that too.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think it'd be so fun to officiate and like a huge responsibility, but such a powerful place to stand as a witness and yeah, the whole thing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty cool.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I also I just have to throw in that I got to be part of that three-week vacation because the wholehearted recharge retreat was as you were the first leg of it.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so got to meet Wade, and that was so fun.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was so good.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was great, it was a great way to start a holiday, that's for sure.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to borrow that idea and do the same with my husband someday in the future.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Deanna, this is so good.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: This is so rich.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: I really selfishly want to keep talking, and I know there's more here.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's I I hope that this is one of these moments that you look back as you finish this book uh on expectations someday in the near future that you go, this was a pivotal part of the writing process.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not to take credit because, but I'm just so excited to see your wisdom out in the world.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: I because I know for me personally, expectations has been so big.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a conversation that continues to come up with every single client that I get the privilege to guide.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for the wisdom you share now.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I really am looking forward to what is ahead.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, I'd love to say, Merry Christmas.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Amy.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Merry Christmas to you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, friend, are you ready to put our five tips into action?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Let me recap them really quickly.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: First, reflect on past holidays, look at budget, family activities, and travel.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Two, decide what you need or want from this holiday season.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Three, determine your boundaries.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Four, clarify the family expectations and take time to communicate the boundaries you already figured out.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then five, be intentional with holiday soul care.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Day in and day out, tip number five is going to help you the most.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you have tips or thoughts on expectations during the holidays, or really any time of year, Deanna and I would love to hear these ideas and your thoughts.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: You can message us on social media, and if you're already following wholehearted Enneagram on Instagram or Facebook, I can see your message and I will reply to you.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And also, if any of these ideas were helpful, keep us posted on what worked and what didn't.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: I really love hearing from you.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Next week, I have more advanced season conversations to share with you to uplift and inspire you as you make your list and check it twice.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.