Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Letters from the Trenches: Consequences and Compassion | Ep. 131

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Letters from the Trenches: Consequences and Compassion | Ep. 131 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:05
  Do you ever feel overwhelmed by the picture perfect families on social media or wonder how other parents handle the messy reality of raising kids?
• 0:21
  You are not alone.
• 0:24
  I'm Cheryl Lang, and on this episode of the Parenting Podcast, we're diving into mailbag questions to share honest stories and some practical advice.
• 0:35
  Together, we'll cut through that social media gloss and get to the heart of real life parenting.
• 0:43
  We'll discuss how to manage natural consequences and cope with those inevitable moments of self doubt.
• 0:52
  Remember, at TPP, we're all in this together.
• 0:57
  So join me now as we get practical, and and debunk some typical, unrealistic parenting expectations.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: Hello, you two wonderful women.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: Here we are.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 1:18
  Ellen: I survived.
• 1:18
  Ellen: Summer's here.
• 1:19
  Ellen: Yes, I survived the beginning of our summer here.
• 1:22
  Ellen: We have eight birthdays of immediate family members.
• 1:27
  Ellen: And we had two graduations.
• 1:28
  Ellen: Oh
• 1:29
  Christie: my goodness, Ellen.
• 1:30
  Christie: And I
• 1:30
  Ellen: keep having to ask the older, my adult children, did I, did I get you a gift?
• 1:35
  Ellen: I can't remember.
• 1:37
  Ellen: Thank goodness for Cash App.
• 1:38
  Ellen: So do
• 1:39
  Cheryl: you Because you have what?
• 1:41
  Cheryl: Four grown children who are all married and 18 grandchildren.
• 1:44
  Cheryl: Correct.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: And a
• 1:46
  Ellen: great grand baby on the way.
• 1:47
  Ellen: Wow, that's a
• 1:48
  Cheryl: full She
• 1:49
  Carol: defines extended family.
• 1:50
  Carol: True, yeah.
• 1:51
  Cheryl: Okay, so do y'all have like Group birthday parties or do you do all individuals?
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Well,
• 1:56
  Ellen: we break them up into smaller segments, you know, so we might just do one family might just do with their family with me and, and Opa, Oman Opa, and things like that to keep it really simple because it does get, it does get kind of,
• 2:12
  Cheryl: I wouldn't say keep it simple, but simplified.
• 2:15
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:17
  Ellen: Wow.
• 2:17
  Christie: But I always have
• 2:18
  Ellen: our family email and I say, okay, make sure I'm not forgetting anybody's birthday.
• 2:23
  Ellen: You know, because it is.
• 2:24
  Ellen: It's like, Oh, my gosh.
• 2:25
  Ellen: Right.
• 2:25
  Ellen: So, like I said, thank goodness for a cash app.
• 2:27
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 2:28
  Ellen: Wow.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: And then you fill in all the anniversaries.
• 2:31
  Ellen: Yes.
• 2:31
  Ellen: Well,
• 2:31
  Christie: yeah.
• 2:31
  Christie: May is already in madness.
• 2:33
  Christie: With graduation.
• 2:34
  Christie: Graduations.
• 2:35
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Ellen: We had two big graduations.
• 2:37
  Ellen: So those are big events and trying to remember everything.
• 2:42
  Ellen: So I'm kind of partied out.
• 2:44
  Ellen: I bet.
• 2:45
  Ellen: I bet.
• 2:46
  Ellen: That's the first
• 2:46
  Cheryl: time I've ever heard you
• 2:47
  Ellen: ask.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: But you usually say it after.
• 2:50
  Cheryl: May.
• 2:51
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Ellen: I think my husband said something we're eating out.
• 2:57
  Ellen: I don't
• 2:58
  Christie: know Stay home and have a salad.
• 3:01
  Christie: Yes alrighty,
• 3:03
  Cheryl: so we keep getting great, comments and questions from, our listeners.
• 3:11
  Cheryl: And so how about if we do some more of those today?
• 3:14
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 3:14
  Cheryl: That's a good one.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: I always like that.
• 3:16
  Cheryl: It's always fun.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: So much.
• 3:18
  Cheryl: The first one we have is a little more straightforward, so how about we start with straightforward?
• 3:22
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 3:22
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:23
  Cheryl: Uh, I hear you all talk about having natural consequences.
• 3:27
  Cheryl: Could you all just talk more about it and give examples of different ages and how it'd play out?
• 3:33
  Cheryl: Oh, thank you so much all you're talking about adapting your parenting to different children at different ages with different personalities.
• 3:40
  Cheryl: It has been so encouraging.
• 3:42
  Cheryl: Oh, that's great to hear.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: Yeah, it is.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: Okay, so what about natural consequences?
• 3:45
  Cheryl: Somebody want to define what we mean when we talk about that?
• 3:49
  Christie: Yeah, I mean natural consequences meaning Whatever is naturally happening because of their choices or behaviors.
• 3:56
  Ellen: If you eat the box of chocolates, you're going to have a stomach ache.
• 4:00
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:01
  Cheryl: And that's a natural consequence.
• 4:03
  Cheryl: I mean, because it's not always talked about other places.
• 4:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:07
  Cheryl: for example, um, There's an old, song that said let the punishment fit the crime.
• 4:14
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 4:14
  Ellen: That's good
• 4:16
  other: natural consequences.
• 4:17
  other: are what results from your choice
• 4:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:22
  Cheryl: And so sort of that, to keep it as related to what, the trouble was or the problem was rather than something arbitrary, like you're grounded.
• 4:33
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:34
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:34
  Cheryl: Just, yeah.
• 4:35
  Cheryl: For whatever, as much as you can, have it be related exactly to what the situation is.
• 4:42
  Cheryl: Let's go through the ages.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: What would be some scenarios with little ones with natural consequences?
• 4:48
  Christie: Well, mostly little ones, they're probably going to be more physical behaviors.
• 4:53
  Christie: Like, you know, you you told them not to open the drawer over and over because they might pinch their fingers, you might, and it's not going to be that bad.
• 5:00
  Christie: You might let them kind of feel that pinch a little bit or, um, You know, if they keep dropping their cup and you keep picking it up and giving it back to them and they keep throwing it down, then eventually the cup stays on the floor and sorry about your luck.
• 5:15
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 5:15
  Ellen: That's good.
• 5:17
  Ellen: I think it's a lot easier when they're simple because it's very directed
• 5:20
  Cheryl: it's a whole lot
• 5:21
  Ellen: simpler when they're young.
• 5:23
  Ellen: Because there isn't a bar.
• 5:24
  Ellen: That's a big heart motive.
• 5:25
  Ellen: They're just doing
• 5:26
  Cheryl: childish things
• 5:27
  Ellen: that sometimes you have to correct.
• 5:29
  Cheryl: And actually, the dropping your cup type thing, there's a whole brain thing that's going on about cause and effect.
• 5:37
  Cheryl: It's a physics experiment.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: They just don't know.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: It really is.
• 5:40
  Cheryl: It's very
• 5:41
  Christie: advanced.
• 5:42
  Cheryl: And then it's really fun because they're actually getting their parents to do what they want them to do.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:48
  Cheryl: Even though they don't have all those words, but I think about particularly like with my grandchildren when they're younger and let's say one and a half to three sharing is a really big deal.
• 6:00
  Cheryl: And so Instead of having some other consequence, whatever it is they're abusing or not using well or whatever they're doing, then they lose time with that.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: You know, that it's related so that there's a lot greater connection and I'm not coming up with something arbitrary.
• 6:18
  Cheryl: Well, yeah.
• 6:18
  Ellen: It's like if you don't want to share your princess dress, then we're going to put the princess dress up in the closet for the next day.
• 6:24
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 6:25
  Ellen: And then they usually go, Oh, no, no, yeah, I do want to share.
• 6:28
  Ellen: Yeah,
• 6:28
  Christie: similarly, you know, if they're not taking care of things or picking things up, maybe, you know, they leave something outside and it rains you may have to lose the 20 bucks and let that toy sit outside and get rained on and ruined.
• 6:42
  Christie: My son
• 6:42
  Ellen: lost his bike that way.
• 6:44
  Christie: How
• 6:44
  Ellen: many times I said, bring your bike and don't leave it on the front lawn.
• 6:48
  Ellen: Okay, okay.
• 6:49
  Ellen: So finally, you know, and this dad come home and pick it up.
• 6:52
  Ellen: So finally he said, just leave it.
• 6:53
  Cheryl: It was
• 6:54
  Ellen: gone.
• 6:55
  Ellen: And
• 6:56
  Cheryl: I remember one time there was Do you remember, do you even remember encyclopedias?
• 7:01
  Cheryl: Oh yeah, that's how I did all my homework as a kid.
• 7:05
  Cheryl: So for those of you who don't know it, Google
• 7:07
  Carol: encyclopedia So we had a set, because it came in a set, and, uh, Compton's.
• 7:14
  Carol: It was a Compton's encyclopedia.
• 7:16
  Carol: And Britannica.
• 7:17
  Carol: Yes, that's what ours were.
• 7:18
  Carol: Um, one of mine kept taking one outside because they were using it for references for what they were, you know, looking it up and whatever it was they were researching or talking about in their play.
• 7:30
  Carol: And I said, be really careful, be sure if you take it outside, you're responsible to bring it back in and they forgot and they left it out and it rained.
• 7:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 7:39
  Cheryl: It's just a lot simpler at that age to let whatever it is they're dealing with.
• 7:45
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:45
  Cheryl: Be the consequence.
• 7:47
  Christie: Well, one of the hard things about natural consequences, though, is it's a lot simpler when it just affects the child.
• 7:54
  Christie: That is true.
• 7:54
  Christie: But when it affects everyone else, or anybody else, specifically me, that's when it becomes a problem.
• 8:02
  Christie: For example?
• 8:03
  Christie: Well, like with this encyclopedia situation, if they ruin the one book out of the set,
• 8:09
  Ellen: the
• 8:09
  Christie: family no longer gets to look up koala bears.
• 8:12
  Christie: You know, that, that, that.
• 8:13
  Christie: That piece is just gone.
• 8:14
  Christie: And so it's hard.
• 8:15
  Christie: That's where I struggle with natural consequences.
• 8:17
  Christie: Or consequences in general.
• 8:17
  Christie: If they eat all the popsicles
• 8:19
  other: in the freezer and nobody else gets them because they ate all the popsicles.
• 8:23
  other: Well, but like with this, we worked it out where they worked to help replace it.
• 8:30
  other: That's natural consequences.
• 8:31
  other: Right.
• 8:32
  other: We bought a replacement.
• 8:34
  other: You know, had to do that.
• 8:35
  other: But I had to go through all the work.
• 8:37
  other: That's, I think, maybe why parents might not use natural consequences.
• 8:44
  other: Because, like you say, you have to be intentional, and we have to go through whatever it is.
• 8:50
  other: Right.
• 8:50
  Christie: Yeah, if you leave the bike outside, let it get rusted, but grandma bought the bike, now you have to explain to grandma, and she doesn't agree, and.
• 8:57
  other: Or it got stolen.
• 8:58
  other: Right.
• 8:58
  other: Yeah.
• 8:59
  other: You know, natural consequences, uh, have more ripple effect, I think, it's just so much
• 9:06
  Carol: easier not to do it But that's,
• 9:09
  Ellen: but that's the important part with natural consequences is, especially in a family unit or a group unit, or I even think of the military, if one guy messes up because they wanted to do their own thing, the whole unit suffers.
• 9:21
  Ellen: That's right.
• 9:22
  Ellen: And in a family, sometimes no one gets
• 9:24
  Christie: a popsicle.
• 9:25
  Christie: Right.
• 9:26
  Christie: Well, I've had kids run to me.
• 9:28
  Christie: in an alarmed state saying, but, but if you let her do that, then this is going to happen.
• 9:32
  Christie: And this is going to happen.
• 9:33
  Christie: And I have to be the grownup in the room and say, yeah, that is going to happen.
• 9:39
  Christie: And that's really unfortunate.
• 9:40
  Christie: And we're all going to suffer because of that person's choices for that reason.
• 9:44
  other: Or if you're all going somewhere, right.
• 9:46
  other: And You allow them to do whatever it is, and it affects everybody.
• 9:51
  other: Maybe the timing are going or because they're doing it now, I can't go in with you.
• 9:56
  other: I have to sit out with them because Well, they forgot the food, right?
• 10:00
  other: You're supposed to put the picnic
• 10:01
  Ellen: basket in the van.
• 10:02
  Ellen: That's right.
• 10:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Christie: Now we're
• 10:04
  Ellen: going
• 10:04
  other: to die and
• 10:05
  Christie: starve.
• 10:05
  Christie: When, when the stakes are high for me is when I have a really hard time not wanting to step in and fix the problem and Yeah.
• 10:13
  Christie: So
• 10:14
  other: let's go up more like to teens and, and so forth because what we're just talking about it, this is real life.
• 10:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:23
  Cheryl: Yeah
• 10:23
  other: You know, we talk about here on TPP that our job is to release our children as adults and that we want the whole package that's, that's where we're heading for.
• 10:33
  other: And, um,
• 10:35
  Cheryl: natural consequences.
• 10:37
  other: is real life training because if you're late to your job, you're going to lose your job.
• 10:41
  other: That's a natural consequence.
• 10:42
  other: All right.
• 10:43
  other: So.
• 10:44
  other: Almost everything in adult life is natural consequences for our choices.
• 10:49
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 10:50
  Ellen: Right.
• 10:50
  other: And so, I think that's what's so great about it, rather than a contrived sit in a time out in the corner or you're grounded.
• 11:01
  other: Grounding there's no real life connection, but natural consequences.
• 11:05
  other: are what results from your choice.
• 11:07
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Ellen: When you get natural consequences.
• 11:09
  Ellen: And
• 11:09
  other: so we want them to think when they're all the way up, my choices have real consequences.
• 11:15
  Ellen: Well, I was thinking about just like older elementary school kids that come and go in your yard, and they leave the gate open and the dog gets out.
• 11:24
  Ellen: You know, um, there's like, those are hard things.
• 11:26
  Ellen: And You know, you either got to spend an hour finding the dog, or the dog got hit by a car, or, you know, it can be really hard, but that's a natural consequence that you send the child out.
• 11:36
  Ellen: You know, the older kid had to look for the dog.
• 11:38
  Ellen: Mm
• 11:38
  other: hmm.
• 11:39
  other: Okay, so what would be some examples, like teens, can you think of some scenarios, what would be natural consequences with teens?
• 11:47
  Ellen: Speeding tickets.
• 11:48
  Ellen: Oh, a beautiful
• 11:50
  other: one.
• 11:51
  other: Yeah, or anything related to the car.
• 11:53
  other: Yeah, right.
• 11:53
  other: If they are abusing the privilege of the car, it's a beautiful thing to take away their car privileges.
• 11:59
  other: You know.
• 12:00
  other: Yeah.
• 12:00
  other: If you abuse the car, you lose it.
• 12:02
  other: I love tickets.
• 12:03
  other: Right.
• 12:03
  other: Yes.
• 12:04
  other: It's a great one.
• 12:04
  other: Well,
• 12:04
  Christie: yeah, and I think the teen years are a great time to start teaching financial consequences.
• 12:09
  Christie: Oh, that's a really good one.
• 12:11
  Christie: Like what?
• 12:11
  Christie: Well, you know, the more you put on your kids for their responsibility to pay for things, the more motivated they are and the better they understand.
• 12:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 12:20
  Christie: If you don't work, you don't eat.
• 12:22
  Christie: You know, they learn real quick that, you know, like for, if there's a dance, a prom or something, you might put some of that weight on them so that they feel some of the, and you don't want to do nice things for your kids, but let them carry some of the weight on those fun things that come with seniors.
• 12:39
  Ellen: That's what you're preparing them for.
• 12:41
  Ellen: Yes.
• 12:41
  Ellen: Because I know when our kids, I think when they turn, 12.
• 12:45
  Ellen: They each got a clothing allowance.
• 12:48
  Ellen: And so they were given a lump sum of money up front.
• 12:52
  Ellen: And then I would take them out and I would sit in a chair while they bought whatever they wanted to do.
• 12:56
  Ellen: But they understood before, now make sure you have a budget.
• 13:00
  Ellen: And if you buy the pair of 150 jeans, you're probably not going to have any underwear money left.
• 13:06
  Ellen: So, and they all learned.
• 13:08
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:08
  Ellen: You know, I remember my son bought a really By today's standards, they're not, weren't that expensive, but they were back then.
• 13:15
  Ellen: He bought a really expensive pair of high tops and, um, I remember asking him down the road, I said, Oh, why did you choose those, you know, those really expensive shoes?
• 13:25
  Ellen: He said, well, you know, I thought it would make me cool.
• 13:28
  Ellen: And he said, but I learned it didn't.
• 13:31
  Ellen: So that was like a natural consequence.
• 13:32
  Ellen: That he
• 13:33
  Christie: needed to learn early on.
• 13:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:35
  Christie: One of my daughters is 20, just moved out.
• 13:39
  Christie: Out of state, actually.
• 13:40
  Christie: And I was talking to her the other day, and it was, it was funny.
• 13:43
  Christie: She said, Yeah, I had to tell myself in the car the other day, Ashlyn, we have food at home.
• 13:48
  Christie: You know, it's all those things that they've, they've heard you say, and now they have to learn on their own.
• 13:55
  other: Well, and.
• 13:58
  other: But I like all of this, what you're saying, the background is you had the conversations.
• 14:03
  other: Right.
• 14:03
  other: So you weren't just giving them money and then they realized, what, I'm not getting any more?
• 14:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:10
  other: You know, and that's what motivated my children to go to work because I said, okay, I will give you this much.
• 14:15
  other: If you want anything more, you have to earn it.
• 14:18
  other: And that was cruel and unusual punishment, they thought, you know, but what it is, you talk about it, so they learn how to budget, they learn, and really
• 14:28
  Ellen: And they learn the disappointment in their desires that aren't fulfilled by that item.
• 14:33
  Ellen: Right.
• 14:34
  Ellen: You know, I think that's a really good lesson, because that's why most of us maybe overspend.
• 14:38
  Ellen: Because, oh, if I get this thing for the house, or if I get this, take this vacation, I'll be happy.
• 14:43
  other: Yeah.
• 14:43
  other: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Christie: Well,
• 14:44
  Ellen: The hardest thing as a parent about natural consequences is when they don't really have to happen when you could step in and fix the problem.
• 14:52
  Ellen: Or, you know, I've been thinking a lot too.
• 14:55
  Ellen: We had four kids at two times.
• 14:57
  Ellen: Home at one time, but they almost started moving out.
• 15:01
  Ellen: And then my caboose is left as an only child.
• 15:04
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Ellen: And so there weren't as many consequences living alone as what her sisters had experienced being in a house full of people.
• 15:12
  Ellen: And you can be more indulgent, maybe financially and emotionally, because that's your only kid.
• 15:18
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:18
  other: Did her sister.
• 15:19
  other: Siblings point out to you.
• 15:20
  other: Oh, they have lots of thoughts and the privileges of
• 15:23
  Christie: living
• 15:23
  other: as the only child.
• 15:24
  other: I think a whole lot of people struggle and they don't want the natural consequences and it's the areas of academics.
• 15:33
  other: Yeah.
• 15:34
  other: And they're not willing.
• 15:35
  other: It's one thing when you have a, you know, a six year old and they're learning, growing, and they're immature, but it's true.
• 15:45
  other: What you do academically in your high school years, teen years, really affects your trajectory.
• 15:53
  other: And so the consequences are huge.
• 15:57
  other: But I see and hear from a lot of parents who bail their kids out in the academic area.
• 16:05
  other: Um, I remember one time, actually, I was Um, hired to tutor somebody.
• 16:11
  other: And my kids weren't teens yet, they were way younger than that.
• 16:15
  other: But, uh, it was a divorce situation, mom and dad and playing back and forth and all this.
• 16:22
  other: And I finally told her one time, I said, You cannot get her algebra score up if you don't quit making her bed and taking her her lunch at school because they never held her accountable to anything.
• 16:36
  other: Because we talked about it and so mom, Oh yes, she's going to make her bed, you know, but she would always come behind her.
• 16:43
  other: Uh, say that she was sick if she just slept in late instead of taking her to school.
• 16:49
  other: Everything.
• 16:50
  other: She was not holding her accountable to anything because she said, well, it matters so much, you know.
• 16:55
  other: Not wanting her to fail.
• 16:57
  other: When those She was allowing her to fail.
• 16:58
  Ellen: When those people get into adulthood, they can't do anything.
• 17:01
  Ellen: Right.
• 17:01
  Ellen: You can't trust them.
• 17:03
  Ellen: Like, hey, we're in a committee right now, and this is your job.
• 17:06
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 17:06
  Ellen: Well, uh, I didn't, I, I don't, I didn't get it done.
• 17:09
  Ellen: Yeah, you're not doing,
• 17:11
  Christie: you're not doing your kid any favors in the long run.
• 17:13
  Christie: And yes, maybe they don't get into the school you wanted them to go to, or maybe it sets them back a year on something.
• 17:19
  Christie: Yeah, that's good.
• 17:19
  Christie: But in, in the long run, when they're 26 and struggling with you know, their work ethic or commitment and their families or you know, it's just not gonna pay off like you think it will.
• 17:31
  Christie: 26 or 46.
• 17:32
  other: Right.
• 17:33
  other: And If we can look at the big picture, because it is hard.
• 17:37
  other: I've had a lot of parents talk to me, you don't understand, if they don't get the A, if they don't get into the AP class, they can't do this.
• 17:46
  other: But let's look at the big picture.
• 17:49
  other: What are you teaching your children?
• 17:52
  other: You know, that meeting some arbitrary standard, which academics are an arbitrary standard, Is more important than their character development.
• 18:00
  other: Yeah,
• 18:01
  Ellen: it makes your you're more valuable
• 18:03
  other: Yeah, because you got
• 18:04
  Ellen: in this program or you got in this college.
• 18:06
  Ellen: Oh,
• 18:06
  Carol: that's good.
• 18:06
  Carol: Yeah rather than learning the responsibility If I don't work hard and do this, yes, i'm going to fail All right, so that's really good talking about,
• 18:17
  Cheryl: natural consequences.
• 18:19
  Carol: of various ages So, we have a letter here from, and it's a mom, and she's really discouraged.
• 18:27
  Carol: And so, I wanted just to read it, and let's just speak into it, because I think discouragement uh, kind of haunts a lot of us in our parenting.
• 18:36
  other: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Carol: I want to address it because I think these are typical of just the way a lot of parents feel, The past year or so has been incredibly challenging for me, and I've doubted so many times whether or not to even continue growing our family or not even trying anymore.
• 18:55
  Carol: Because I feel like I was just bad at this mom thing, mom life.
• 19:01
  Carol: I just feel like social media really portrays moms as invincible, fun, thriving.
• 19:07
  Carol: And although I know this is not true, it's easy to get sucked into the lies.
• 19:13
  Carol: Thank you TPP, you're such a dose of encouragement to me.
• 19:17
  Carol: And I love how you always end with, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering.
• 19:21
  Carol: Because it's worth it.
• 19:23
  Carol: So I'll just stop with that.
• 19:24
  Carol: Let's speak into this for this mom.
• 19:27
  Christie: Well, I feel her.
• 19:29
  Christie: I mean, I, I feel what she's feeling and, and I understand, I, the social media part, I didn't have that so much when my kids were young.
• 19:40
  Christie: It came in at the tail end of my brain.
• 19:42
  Christie: You know at home parenting years, but um, I I think you know, I see the videos of all the plexiglass Organizers in your fridge in your pantry and the kids all their hair's done and all of that It's just not real life.
• 19:56
  Christie: Like nobody's living like that all the time and But it's hard when you, that's the picture you have in your mind of my kids should be singing to the dinner table and so compliant all the time and we should only play classical music and we should this, that and the other and, um, it can feel really discouraging when, when you feel like you're failing at everything.
• 20:16
  Ellen: That's really good.
• 20:17
  Ellen: And I definitely agree that social media is a monster for moms.
• 20:22
  Ellen: Because You know, Cheryl and I are old enough.
• 20:25
  Ellen: We didn't have social media, but we stopped peer pressure because women would sit around and boast about all the fabulous things they're doing with their kids.
• 20:35
  Ellen: And especially if you tend to have a little bit larger family, you can't do the same thing with five children that you can with two.
• 20:42
  Ellen: And you might not have the same finances.
• 20:44
  Ellen: There's all sorts of different things.
• 20:45
  Ellen: And you're like, I must.
• 20:47
  Ellen: be a failure as a mom.
• 20:48
  Ellen: But I think that's really normal.
• 20:51
  Ellen: And I think that's important to talk about, older moms with younger moms, other moms.
• 20:56
  Ellen: I think every mom feels like a failure because you feel like you're, you're the potter and they're the clay.
• 21:01
  Christie: And,
• 21:02
  Ellen: uh, To some degrees you are, but we can't be that arrogant because there's so many other factors involved in raising children.
• 21:11
  Ellen: But I think that's a really hard thing because, and now with social media, you look at Instagram and all the beautiful children lined up, perfectly squeaky clean for the picture.
• 21:21
  Ellen: And you're thinking, gosh, I can't even afford the clothes they're wearing, let alone my kids stand still for the picture.
• 21:27
  Christie: Right.
• 21:27
  Christie: Or they're so cool
• 21:29
  other: in their messiness.
• 21:30
  Christie: Yes.
• 21:30
  Christie: Yes, that's true.
• 21:31
  Christie: Because that's cool too.
• 21:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:32
  Christie: And.
• 21:33
  other: See?
• 21:33
  other: Although we didn't have social media, even magazines or painting magazines.
• 21:38
  other: Or just our own expectations, our own standards that we set.
• 21:44
  other: Why can't I do that?
• 21:45
  other: And here's what I would do.
• 21:47
  other: Let's say y'all are my friends and I look at Christy and I go, wow, Christy bakes those beautiful cookies with her children and they have game night every Friday night and Ellen is doing art and she takes them to this.
• 22:01
  other: So I didn't look.
• 22:02
  other: Look at the total package of everything you did.
• 22:05
  other: I just looked at sections of your life very good And and I pulled wow, that's perfect.
• 22:11
  other: That's right.
• 22:12
  other: Yeah, I want all this perfect from all these people and Superimposed on my life clearly I'm a failure,
• 22:19
  Christie: right?
• 22:19
  Christie: Well, and we all have a responsibility to live with transparency right because it's You know, just like you're saying your part in that is to have more of a clear picture that I do have flaws behind my closed doors.
• 22:33
  Christie: It's my No you don't, Christy! I promise, I do.
• 22:37
  Christie: But it's, it's my responsibility to be honest and transparent about those things with, But the way she
• 22:42
  Ellen: answered jokingly, I think that's what happens if somebody admires and respects you.
• 22:48
  Ellen: And even if you tell them the truth and you go, just ask my kids, they think you're joking.
• 22:53
  Ellen: And so that's a really difficult thing.
• 22:55
  Ellen: So ultimately it lies.
• 22:57
  Ellen: As the parent in our own heart, that we have to take on an attitude that I will not compare myself.
• 23:05
  Ellen: I won't compare my children, and I'm going to choose not to compare myself with the magazine, with the internet, and the friends around me.
• 23:13
  Ellen: What am I supposed to be doing for my family?
• 23:15
  Ellen: But I think it goes back even farther than that.
• 23:20
  Ellen: We need to really make sure that we have a clear idea of what we want and what we value so that we are passing that on to our children and not getting caught up in everybody's other things they think are important.
• 23:33
  Ellen: That is so good.
• 23:33
  Ellen: Christy, what your family thought was important would be different than mine.
• 23:36
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Ellen: Same with you Cheryl.
• 23:37
  Ellen: So, does it mean the kids are better or worse?
• 23:40
  Ellen: They're just different.
• 23:41
  Christie: Well, and I think a good little exercise to do is, is to think, if my child were talking about themselves.
• 23:50
  Christie: What would I say to them?
• 23:51
  Christie: Oh, that's good.
• 23:52
  Christie: Because, you know, if you had your child just sitting, coloring at the table, and all of a sudden they started saying, I wish I was as good of a kid as Harper over there.
• 24:02
  Christie: You know, she's always obeying her mom, and she's always making the coolest crafts, and you know, you would, you know.
• 24:09
  Christie: want to speak into that.
• 24:10
  Christie: You would want your daughter to be kind to herself and celebrate her successes and her wins and, and it's not even that
• 24:17
  Ellen: complicated.
• 24:18
  Ellen: They're coloring going, I don't color as good as my older sister or whatever.
• 24:24
  Ellen: Everybody colors better than me,
• 24:25
  Christie: right?
• 24:26
  Christie: You know, it
• 24:26
  Ellen: is not, it doesn't even that complicated.
• 24:28
  Ellen: That's just our human nature to look at what we're doing and go, everybody else is doing it better than me.
• 24:33
  Ellen: Well,
• 24:34
  other: It's comparison and I think it goes all the way back again to identity,
• 24:39
  Ellen: That's good
• 24:40
  other: you know, that I'm getting my identity selectively and like the tick tock and everything else, it's just through the roof now, but I'm perceiving myself, my success as a person, as a parent from what's happening outside, you know, or what someone else, their standard Yeah.
• 25:00
  other: Right You know, even, for example, as simple as whether someone tends to be an extrovert or an introvert, there are different levels of energy that they have, and so a lot of times, I have talked with someone that tends to be the internal processing and they are condemning themselves all the time because they look at these external people with all this extra energy and they go, why can't I do all this that they're doing?
• 25:27
  other: What's wrong with me?
• 25:29
  other: Discounting the deep riches of this thoughtful, contemplative, deep personality because that's not a value in
• 25:38
  Ellen: our society, which adds to the pain.
• 25:40
  Ellen: Someone that's a deep thinker or an internal person, they don't get the same kudos as a person who's out there.
• 25:46
  Ellen: That is true.
• 25:48
  other: Which is what social media is.
• 25:51
  other: I mean, because Nobody does their post on any of the social media the first time, right?
• 26:00
  other: We're watching other people's curated presentation, and then looking at how we're failing Right.
• 26:09
  Ellen: My two adult daughters with their children, they just don't go on social media for that reason because they just confess, this makes me feel really bad.
• 26:16
  Ellen: I see all these mothers doing these really wonderful things, and they're both really good moms, but I don't blame them.
• 26:22
  Ellen: You know, it's very discouraging.
• 26:24
  other: So we would say to this mom, hang in there.
• 26:29
  other: Yeah.
• 26:30
  other: You know, be yourself.
• 26:31
  other: Mm-Hmm.
• 26:32
  other: It's just everything we've said here.
• 26:35
  other: Be who you are.
• 26:37
  other: Mm-Hmm.
• 26:37
  other: But continue to grow and bring things in
• 26:40
  Ellen: and try to find older moms.
• 26:42
  Ellen: Because they'll be more honest than your peer group moms.
• 26:45
  Ellen: Look for someone that's maybe a little closer to your mom's age and you respect their opinion And they'll have the perspective.
• 26:51
  Ellen: Yes, they'll be able to say, Oh, you're okay, hon, don't worry about that.
• 26:55
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:56
  Christie: Well, and just going back to social media, I think of all the like little videos of old trends, you know, kind of make jokes about the old trends of like, Oh, we just thought we were so cool in these boots and this makeup style and this hairstyle.
• 27:09
  Christie: And I think you're right, an older mom is going to be able to say, Oh yeah, before it was this, it was that.
• 27:15
  Christie: Before it was that, it was this.
• 27:17
  Christie: There's always going to be some kind of standard that we're holding ourselves to that doesn't matter.
• 27:20
  Christie: Whoever thought diapers would be a major discussion?
• 27:23
  Christie: You know?
• 27:25
  Christie: Yeah, we rise and fall on the way that we catch our child's poop.
• 27:28
  Christie: laughter Oh my y'all.
• 27:33
  Carol: Oh thank you all.
• 27:34
  Carol: And I will close with what that mom said.
• 27:37
  Carol: Parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it is worth it.
• 27:45
  Carol: Yes.
• 27:51
  I'm so grateful you joined me today on the parenting podcast.
• 27:55
  We covered a rich mix of parenting tips and deep reflections on the ups and downs of parenting.
• 28:04
  The reality of raising kids is often far from that perfect image we see online.
• 28:13
  And it's vital to keep that in mind.
• 28:17
  Let's stop right now and remind ourselves that perfection is a myth.
• 28:26
  Now, take a moment to reflect on our discussion.
• 28:30
  Can you identify one specific way to start incorporating natural consequences into your daily parenting rhythms?
• 28:41
  If our conversation about self doubt resonated with you, I encourage you to practice self compassion.
• 28:48
  Maybe pick one suggestion and see how it can become a helpful step in your daily life.
• 28:56
  I'd love to hear your thoughts or questions or stories, so feel free to reach out at contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 29:04
  com or connect with us on social media.
• 29:09
  Let's continue this conversation supporting each other through every challenge and celebrating every success.
• 29:17
  Remember, with TPP, you are not alone on this journey.
• 29:22
  So, until next time, hang in there.
• 29:26
  Keep loving yourself and your kids, because every bit of effort is worth it.