Latest / Thick No More / Millions Still Believe They're the Problem | Natalie Brooks

Transcript

Millions Still Believe They're the Problem | Natalie Brooks · Thick No More

0:01
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Thick No
0:05
More. So this is the podcast where we
0:09
tried to dispel labels of the fact that we were lazy,
0:12
disruptive, difficult, or in my case, just simply thick.
0:15
It was never the case, It was never true.
0:18
So pretty much near enough, every fortnight I sit down with
0:22
people who I think are changing those conversations, changing
0:28
the conversations about dyslexia, ADHD, autism,
0:31
education on neurodiversity. And what they try to do is they
0:35
are trying to prove that those differences, they were never our
0:38
weaknesses. For me, today's guest has become
0:43
what I think one of the leading voices.
0:46
You'll see her frequently on Instagram.
0:48
You'll see her on LinkedIn as well.
0:50
She supports adults with dyslexia through coaching or
0:55
online community, which is just thousands.
0:58
She's also got a brand new book out, which I really want to talk
1:01
to you about. And she helps thousands of
1:03
people, I guess, finally understand themselves.
1:06
So massive, massive welcome to Natalie Brooks.
1:11
I am so so happy you can join us on Think Memo.
1:15
Thank you so much for having me. What a wonderful introduction,
1:19
really looking forward to today. Oh, it's true.
1:22
And I do have a confession. So prior, prior to actually I've
1:26
got 2 confessions. First confession is, is you kind
1:31
of like you, you I've noticed you for so long, right?
1:35
Because I, I'm really, really active more so on, on LinkedIn
1:40
than on Instagram. I'm, but I saw you on LinkedIn a
1:44
long, long time ago when I read your post.
1:47
And in that time, probably when I started reading your post, I
1:52
wasn't super active with the way I would post on LinkedIn about
1:56
talking about dyslexia. I was kind of still masking, I
2:00
think. And you were one of the people
2:03
that I kind of thought to myself, why can't I just say
2:07
these things? Why can't I just come out with
2:09
this, you know, And then I joined when I started to find my
2:12
voice, I joined Instagram and then it became semi stalking
2:15
because literally your posts a lot on Instagram, they are
2:18
amazing. And anyone that's listen, if
2:21
you, if you are, if you're like me and you're still not quite
2:25
ready to talk about it, just go on Instagram and look at some of
2:28
Natalie's stuff because it's it's fantastic.
2:30
And honestly not Leah, thank you for your time.
2:33
So it's the first confession, 2nd confession.
2:35
This is actually the second time we recorded this podcast.
2:38
So we did, we did it, we did it last week.
2:43
And Cyprus has this fantastic ability to have power cuts
2:48
whenever it wants. And we were literally really, I
2:51
mean, we're at a point where Natalie was doing some really
2:53
good stuff and then all of a sudden bang out when the out
2:57
when the power. So this is the second time we've
2:59
done it. And yeah, so Natalie, thank you
3:02
for your patience and welcome. No problem.
3:06
I'm looking forward to being here.
3:07
And yeah, I think the conversation will be even better
3:10
this week because we're 50% prepped.
3:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is true.
3:14
This is true. So listen first question.
3:17
Everyone gets his question. You walk into a door.
3:22
You don't walk into a door. You walk into a room.
3:24
Every time the door opens, a song plays.
3:26
Can you tell me what the song is and why?
3:28
Yeah, start me up by The Rolling Stones.
3:31
Just the kind of song that really gets you going and you
3:34
just like, find yourself tapping your head, you know, shaking
3:37
your foot like it's just a great song.
3:40
Yeah, it is. It's just for them tunes, that
3:43
is whenever that comes on, that's a Turn Me Up tune, isn't
3:45
it? It's not a, it does like full
3:47
volume job. You know, I think I can kind of
3:52
like for me the Stones, some of the Stone songs.
3:57
There is a particular Stone song that I used to listen to when I
4:02
kind of like was like hiding a bit and now I listen to and it's
4:06
got a completely different meaning.
4:09
But yeah, starting is awesome too.
4:11
Yeah. You know, you're going to be
4:12
humming that all day now, by the way, you can do that.
4:14
All right. I was having it all day last
4:16
week when we first talked about it, and now it's going to be
4:19
back on repeat this week. And I wanted to tell you the
4:23
reason why that song is why I gave you the answer like that,
4:28
because I think it will really resonate with you.
4:31
And I, and I've only told one other person this.
4:34
And I think it is such a classic thing that so many dyslexic
4:38
people will do. So I have a set list of
4:43
favourites, favorite songs, favorite movies, favorite foods,
4:47
favorite places to have been because I find questions like
4:53
that so overwhelming for my brain for two classic dyslexic
4:57
reasons. The 1st is the kind of big
5:00
picture thinking is I have all of these thoughts when you ask
5:04
me that. It's, it's not just, you know,
5:07
what's my favorite song that it's like, well, this week I
5:10
like this and this week I like that.
5:12
And, and you know, I want to give you a good answer and also
5:15
I want to give you a true answer because actually I don't have a
5:18
favorite song. I have a favorite song of the
5:20
moment. And you know, like my brain
5:22
becomes a light with all these different options.
5:25
And then there's the processing challenges of how do I get that
5:29
complicated answer out of my head succinctly to you and the
5:33
time period you want it. You just want me to say my
5:35
favorite song and give you an answer within 30 seconds.
5:38
And for dyslexic people, that is so hard.
5:42
So one day, and this has kind of been an evolution, I, I thought
5:46
to myself, I'm not going to worry about giving you 5 kind of
5:51
complex answers of well, you know, I like The Rolling Stones,
5:54
but also I like Fred again and blah blah blah.
5:56
And, and you know, I listened to Frank Sinatra three times this
5:59
week and blah blah blah blah blah.
6:02
Because actually, you know, that kind of bullshit laser we have
6:06
as dyslexic people made me cut through and think, do you know
6:09
what that question is about you wanting to know something about
6:15
me? You want to understand me, you
6:16
want to categorise me, you want to kind of learn something about
6:19
me. And that question helps you get
6:21
that because what music I listen to, you know, I like The Rolling
6:25
Stones because my dad listened to Virgin Radio when I was a
6:27
kid. And like that tells you
6:29
something about me and my childhood and who I am and what
6:33
concerts I go to and you know, all of these kind of things.
6:37
So if I can just give you an answer that gives you that, it
6:40
gives you a little bit of knowledge about me.
6:43
I then release all the pressure of the 5 million different
6:46
thoughts I have, gives me a quick, simple answer that makes
6:50
me feel like the conversation is flowing and I'm not embarrassed
6:53
about buffering and getting overwhelmed and excited by all
6:57
the different answers. And I think it's such a kind of
7:04
thing that us dyslexic people do.
7:06
And, you know, some people could consider it masking because I'm
7:09
not being authentic of giving you this complicated, long
7:12
winded answer. But for me, it feels like I've
7:17
kind of cheated the system. I've looked at it in a different
7:20
lens. I've seen it from a different
7:22
perspective. And every time I give people,
7:24
you know, my favorite film, Saving Private Ryan, my favorite
7:27
place to go, Mexico, I feel like I'm like seeing Beyond the
7:32
Matrix. And I've got this dyslexic
7:34
thinking that's kind of given me something that other people
7:37
don't know. And I, yeah, I just wanted to
7:40
share that with you because I thought you would really enjoy
7:42
that and. So cool.
7:44
Would you ever would you ever? Because listen, I know I do that
7:48
right? Like music's mine.
7:53
What's what's the one I'm looking for?
7:54
This is my go to. So no matter what it is good
7:58
time, bad time, need to switch off for a bit, need to
8:01
concentrate on some work, It's music.
8:03
Music is always oriented. And yeah, I get it.
8:05
My top 10 is different depending on the person I'm speaking to,
8:10
the situation. I mean, how I'm feeling that day
8:12
and what my brain can generate to come out quick enough.
8:14
Because all the time I'll think of a song and then actually, no,
8:17
that isn't in my top 10. Or is it?
8:19
So I read questions. So would you ever actually like
8:23
part of your coach, I want to come to your coach in a bit, But
8:26
would you, would you kind of give that as advice to almost
8:29
sort of to say going through all that process of trying to like,
8:34
you know, would you just say to someone, hey, listen, have an
8:37
easy answer to say to make your life simpler, have an easy
8:41
answer a set a say answer to a question that you know, you may
8:45
get asked or you may get asked once a month or once a year.
8:52
So the answer I'm going to give is the long winded answer rather
8:55
than the kind of succinct answer.
8:57
And like kind of the the kind of too long didn't read answer is
9:02
yes, I think people should do that.
9:04
But actually, I think being a successful dyslexic is about
9:11
sitting down and thinking about how you want to show up in the
9:15
world. Do you want the ability to
9:18
answer quickly and that's what's important to you and you want to
9:22
just have the conversation flow simply.
9:24
And therefore a kind of pre prepped answer sometimes makes
9:29
life a little bit easier. You know, when someone says to
9:32
me, what's your favorite song, I'm no longer filled with this
9:34
dread of how do I explain to you that every single week there's a
9:37
new favorite song? And but then the other half of
9:43
it is, I think if you want to be the kind of dyslexic person
9:48
that's maybe more unmasked and wants to give those long winded
9:53
answers, I think that that's really freeing because you
9:55
remove yourself from this pressure, this kind of like cage
10:00
of having to give a quick answer.
10:02
Because a lot of the time what I see with a lot of my clients is
10:04
it's not that they can't give a good answer.
10:06
It's not that they don't have ideas of what they want to say.
10:09
But a lot of the time they're so under pressure with giving a
10:12
quick answer that they don't express themselves in the way
10:17
that they would like. And so I think what I would say
10:21
to anyone who's listening, or if I, if one of my coaching clients
10:24
asked me this, I'd say, who do you want to be?
10:26
How do you want to show up in the world?
10:28
What matters to you? Is it just getting an answer out
10:32
and getting going, which to me feels like what is important in
10:36
some moments, or is it being, you know, showing that picture
10:42
of the complexity of your brain and therefore, you know, feeling
10:45
comfortable to take up the space to say, you know what?
10:48
I don't have a favorite song, but I can tell you what I'm
10:49
loving this week. I think it's about learning how
10:54
your brain works and understanding the reality of
10:56
that, of the big picture thinking we have of the kind of
11:00
complicated processing we deal with, and then making your own
11:04
choices of how you want to show up in the world.
11:05
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, but I certainly
11:08
think it's a useful strategy. And another example of it, which
11:13
I think is a a good one to have is, you know, those office
11:16
icebreaker questions where people are like, oh, tell us one
11:19
thing about yourself. I just had one of those prepped
11:22
as well because there's nothing worse than someone asking you
11:25
something like that on the spot. And then you're like, because
11:30
that is just so embarrassing. So I think it's nice to have it,
11:35
but it's also important to be yourself sometimes.
11:38
Yeah, I, I worry. I mean, I worry when I do this.
11:42
I don't worry when I'm speaking to other neurodivergence, but I
11:46
worry, I worry when I'm in my work.
11:49
Like if I'm on a call and I'm asked a question and I know I do
11:53
it on the podcast and I'm doing it now, I over talk what could
11:58
be maybe a 345 word answer. I over talk that and I do get
12:03
there and it may come midway through the sentence and then
12:07
there's a bit more at the end of it or it may come right at the
12:09
end. And sometimes I worry and they
12:12
probably don't. But and it's it's maybe me.
12:15
Since I've started to learn about myself more, I worry that
12:19
they taught the moment I I put my hand up to speak now, because
12:23
I never used to put my hand up. I now worry that when my hand
12:26
goes up, they all go, shit, here we go again.
12:29
You know, So it's interesting you say that.
12:32
And I love the icebreaker thing because the times I get asked
12:35
that in my role, like when we go to big meetings, it's kind of
12:39
the thing to do, you know, or let's all get to know each of
12:41
them. I just think, no, not a care.
12:44
So I'm going to remember that one.
12:45
That's a good one. It's so useful and and often
12:50
they again, they just want to learn something about you.
12:52
They just want to know you. They want to categorize you and
12:54
think about it like that rather than, you know, how do I give
12:57
the right answer? And interestingly, you should
13:01
say about the long winded answers.
13:05
I'll give you a couple of sneak peeks of behind the book because
13:08
all of this is covered inside the book.
13:11
So how? It's amazing.
13:12
By the way, Congrats. Thank you very much, honestly.
13:15
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, tell us because I've
13:17
got a few questions about the book.
13:19
Yeah, please tell us. So there's a whole chapter in
13:22
working memory, which is by far the biggest area that I work
13:26
with on my clients. So working memory is the ability
13:30
to hold information in your head.
13:32
And one of the ways it's coming out most and where people have
13:35
the least strategies is how to organise thoughts or respond to
13:40
kind of questions that they're not prepared for.
13:42
So if someone, you know, in the middle of a meeting goes, oh,
13:45
what's that project update, you know, your brain's got to go
13:47
back to the filing cabinet, get the answer, bring it forward,
13:51
organise it in a linear format and then kind of put that out
13:55
there. And our working memory often
13:57
doesn't have the capacity to hold the question, hold the
14:00
answer and organise our thoughts.
14:03
And it's tripping people up of either staying silent or feeling
14:07
this dreaded fear of, you know, God.
14:09
People think I'm just talking in circles.
14:11
So there's loads of strategies to help with that problem in the
14:16
book. And my favorite thing to say to
14:19
people is these are the simplest strategies to implement.
14:22
They are the most successful ones that I have.
14:24
So like, please do try and like give them a go because they make
14:28
a huge difference. But a couple of the ones that
14:31
that are in there is the first thing is your brain actually
14:35
just needs a nanosecond to filter everything through.
14:39
Doesn't need 5 minutes. It doesn't need to pre prep an
14:42
answer. It just needs a millisecond.
14:45
So a filler phrase is a great way to do that.
14:47
So OK, so the project update what?
14:51
So basically what's going on is would be plenty that would be
14:54
great. The other thing is repeating the
14:59
question helps you digest and process it and remove it from
15:04
working memory like which gives much more capacity to do all the
15:09
other things of, you know, getting the answer and
15:11
organizing your thoughts. So when you go, OK, so the
15:15
Amazon report, basically what's going on is and when you kind of
15:20
repeat that answer, give yourself a second and you remove
15:25
it from working memory and then you can start organising your
15:29
thoughts much better. Now, if your thoughts still go a
15:33
little bit haywire and all, a bit, you know, soupy and all
15:35
over the shop, the key here is to signpost your conversations.
15:42
So you just say, OK, let me just get this off the top of my head,
15:47
you know, prep people that it's going to be a little bit soupy,
15:49
that you've not got the perfect answer and then finish strongly.
15:53
So, you know, if it's halfway through the sentence or if it's
15:57
right at the end, you say, OK, basically to wrap up or, you
16:01
know, let me just summarize what I was trying to say or sorry, I
16:06
just need a second to organize my thoughts.
16:07
What I'm trying to say is now here's how this helps.
16:11
So once you've done that soupy conversation of going around the
16:15
houses and saying all of the things, what then happens is
16:19
that your brain has taken that thought off your working memory
16:22
and it's digested it and organized it better.
16:25
And so you've actually got the capacity to be much more
16:27
succinct, much more clear, much more organized in your thoughts.
16:31
But the problem is the stress and embarrassment shuts us down
16:35
so we don't do the next step. So here's how that would look in
16:39
kind of if I kind of repeat everything to to wrap it up, it
16:42
would go something like, Oh yes, the project update and the
16:47
issues with regards to blah, blah, blah.
16:50
Yes. So basically let me think this
16:52
through. What happened was we went to
16:54
this person and we spoke over there and yes, OK, so basically
16:58
just what I wanted to say. The main update is we're moving
17:02
forward. We've had some good
17:03
conversations and I'm hopeful to give you an answer next week.
17:07
And what that takes it from is this kind of really
17:10
uncomfortable first moment for you where you're like going
17:14
that. Stopped.
17:16
Hopefully your thoughts are a little bit more organised, but
17:19
at least we've signposted to people to say just bear with me,
17:23
a good answer is coming. And then finally, the last
17:26
answer is really strong and that's what people will
17:29
remember. They won't remember.
17:31
God. I sat there for ages and didn't
17:32
make any sense. So do you understand what he
17:34
meant? They say, Oh yeah, basically the
17:36
update. Is this call happy?
17:38
Let's keep going. So it does 3 really important
17:41
things and it makes a huge difference.
17:43
And I'd say that is the thing that I am teaching people every
17:47
single day, every single week. And the reason why I was really
17:51
excited to write a book is I just wanted to get that advice
17:54
to as many people as possible that I think will make a huge
17:58
difference to people's lives. I once had a client who said to
18:01
me that in the middle of one of her presentations, she shut her
18:05
laptop clothes in the middle of her Zoom call when she was
18:08
working from home because she was so embarrassed about how
18:11
badly this was going. Like this is the reality of how
18:13
people are feeling. Yeah, it's it.
18:16
And you know, so that happens to me all the time at work and I, I
18:22
know I physically and physically makes me feel sick because I do
18:26
think at the end a did I, did I say what I wanted to say or have
18:31
I gone 50 miles around the road to get where I needed to go?
18:35
Be as anybody as everyone switched off now because the
18:37
board of what I'm saying and see, I'm spending that much time
18:41
trying to remember what the question was in the first place
18:45
and answer it. I don't even know and talk about
18:48
you just mentioned there. I'll tell you what happened to
18:50
me. I was doing a presentation in
18:52
Malta and someone gave me some great advice when I'm talking
18:57
because I I don't get stage fright.
19:00
I love speaking to I love speaking to people, but I panic
19:04
even though I'm telling a story about me or a story about
19:07
dyslexia. I panic that I'm going to forget
19:10
something. So someone said why you, why are
19:12
you even stressing about this? Just have a teleprompter on your
19:15
phone, hold your hand. It's really cool.
19:16
You can just glance at it. Did it, did it.
19:18
Now stupidly, I relied on a teleprompter.
19:23
Normally I would spend days and days and days going over it,
19:26
speaking, talking to myself in the mirror and I didn't I did
19:29
it. I did it 3 or 4 times and I had
19:31
the teleprompter and what happened was is someone text me
19:35
right in the middle, not the truth Teleprompter went off lost
19:40
my point and I was like, Oh my God.
19:42
And I so I know what that feels like without what you just said
19:45
about that Lady. It is and and your brain just it
19:49
feels like your brain just going like like fog.
19:53
You can't see, you can't think. So the book what what what as I
19:58
said on the introduction, I've said I've seen all of your stuff
20:02
on LinkedIn, all this cool stuff you point Instagram.
20:05
What made Natalie thing? Right now's the time to do a
20:08
book. Now's the time to do this.
20:10
What? What was the what was the the
20:12
moment that made you think? Now's the right moment.
20:16
Oh, this is a really embarrassing story and I I won't
20:19
sugarcoat it. I'll tell the honest truth and
20:22
but before I do, just for anyone that it was listening to that
20:25
kind of previous conversation about working memory and nodding
20:27
along because I know it will be the vast majority of people is
20:31
stress actually reduces the capacity in your brain.
20:36
So that's why when you're having a conversation to someone you
20:38
know and you like and you feel comfortable with, everything
20:41
goes well. But when you're speaking on
20:43
stage, you're speaking in front of that boss that makes you
20:45
nervous or something goes wrong and you start to panic.
20:49
Cortisol spikes up, your working memory goes absolutely crashing
20:53
down, and you go into that kind of more fight or flight
20:56
response. So you're not crazy.
20:58
That is what's happening. And that's why confidence
21:01
actually makes the whole situation better, because it
21:04
keeps your capacity going instead of kind of going, Oh my
21:07
God, it's going wrong, it's going wrong, it's going wrong.
21:09
You're like, OK, yeah, I'm gonna be right.
21:11
It's OK, and then you can keep going and everything goes well.
21:14
So it is really important to manage that reality.
21:18
And that's why I think strategies are so important
21:20
because they give you more confidence.
21:21
They help you feel more comfortable.
21:22
They keep going. And yeah, they all work
21:25
together. You know, confidence, strategy,
21:27
strengths, They're kind of a circle that keep going.
21:30
But enough of behind the scenes of the book because all of
21:34
that's in the working memory chapter.
21:37
The answer of why I wrote a book is I went to the dyslexia show
21:43
must have been about 3 years ago now, and I used to do this kind
21:51
of idea whenever I went to the show, I'd speak to all the
21:53
experts and I'd say, can you give me one tip about dyslexia
21:57
or one one kind of trait of dyslexia 1 tip 1 trait was what
22:01
I used to do because people so don't understand dyslexia that
22:06
just one simple trade or tip. It goes so viral because of how
22:12
little people understand their dyslexia.
22:16
And so I I did that for kind of the third year in a row and one
22:19
of the videos by Darius from Dyslexia explored when
22:25
absolutely stratospherically viral, like one and a half
22:28
million views, probably more. And a publisher saw it and
22:34
contacted me and she basically said dyslexia and ADHD is
22:38
everywhere at the moment, but no one is talking about dyslexia.
22:42
This is your opportunity. Do you, do you want to go for
22:45
it? And this is the embarrassing
22:48
bit, even though you know, vast majority of people would cut
22:52
their right arm off for a publishing deal and would love
22:54
to write a book. I was so busy and overwhelmed
22:58
with the work I was doing and the kind of like reality of
23:02
starting a business and trying to grow it and scale it.
23:05
I was like, listen, I'd love to, but I just can't right now.
23:09
Like I just can't. And then I kind of mentioned it
23:12
to a few of my friends and family and they were like, are
23:14
you crazy? And you lost the blood?
23:18
Get back to that publisher. Contact her right now.
23:21
You're moron. And.
23:24
And then, yeah. And then the rest is history.
23:25
And, and actually, when the book was published, I, I bought my
23:29
publisher a big nice plant. And I said, I am so sorry that I
23:34
was like so moronic at the very beginning and said, no, thank
23:38
you so much for contacting me for, you know, bearing with me
23:44
for like helping me through this process because they were so
23:47
supportive. It was really a dream to write
23:51
with them. And, yeah, just, like, thank you
23:55
for, you know, everything you've done for me.
23:57
So I kind of like massively delivered a slice of humble pie.
24:02
Wow. And and and the whole writing of
24:05
it. Did you find it?
24:07
Did it just come to you? Was it?
24:09
Was it? Was it, Was it easier to write
24:12
because you were talking about things that you speak about all
24:15
the time, or did you have to dig deep and try and find stuff?
24:19
You know, did you feel like that you needed to write stuff maybe
24:21
that you'd not talked about before?
24:23
So yeah, keen to understand a bit about that.
24:27
So my goal with dyslexia and adults, which then leads into
24:30
kind of everything that I try and do, is I was struggling with
24:35
my own dyslexia and I was lucky enough to get support as a
24:38
child. And then it left me in this
24:41
horrible position as an adult, feeling stupid, feeling
24:45
incapable, feeling like I wasn't achieving my potential.
24:49
Like just everything was five times harder than I wanted it to
24:54
be. And I just don't want people to
25:00
feel like I know that millions feel how I felt and I want to
25:03
make a change in the world. I want that to stop.
25:07
And So what I want is to educate people about dyslexia so they
25:10
understand terms like picture thinking, working memory,
25:13
executive function, So they know their brain and then they know
25:17
what is going to work in terms of confidence, helping your
25:20
strengths shrine navigating the challenges.
25:24
And so the book is that it's kind of like either whether or
25:31
not you've just been diagnosed or whether or not you were
25:34
diagnosed at 10 and you know, you don't know anything since or
25:39
you only know from an educational standpoint, what is
25:42
helps you to kind of read and write and you just want to know
25:45
what works. You just want to make your life
25:48
easier. You want to feel more capable.
25:51
Maybe you want just your strengths to shine a bit more.
25:54
It's like I, I think, I think the best way to describe it is I
25:58
used to get pissed off with all these celebrities talking about
26:01
how amazing their strengths were.
26:02
And I was like, listen, how do I get from struggling to
26:05
succeeding? Everyone talks about succeeding
26:09
and they talk about struggling. No one gives the path, no one
26:13
gives the route, no one shows you the way.
26:16
And what I wanted to do is I wanted to lay brick by brick, do
26:20
this, try this, figure out this, this is how your brain works,
26:25
and just gaffer the basics to go from struggling to succeeding.
26:32
And I hope that's what I've done 'cause that's the idea kind of,
26:34
it's actually unlocked. It unlocks your strengths.
26:37
It kind of like brushes off all your track confidence
26:41
difficulties and gives you simple strategies to get going.
26:44
Like that was the that's everything I try and do with the
26:47
sexy and adults. And that's kind of everything
26:50
that's in the book. And no, it was super easy to
26:53
write because it just blowed out of me.
26:56
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's just AI love
26:59
the way you just talked about that because that that is what
27:02
you see a lot. And I it just frustrate me like
27:05
when you see. Oh, yeah, it's a superpower.
27:08
And yeah, you know, tap into this and you're like, how did
27:11
you find that? Where where was that?
27:13
You know, how how did you actually know that that that,
27:16
you know, and and I do, I do. That's what I do love about you.
27:20
I love about the fact that you kind of like you almost
27:23
challenge that you're challenging people to say, well,
27:25
you know, OK, listen, yeah, this is the bad bits of it.
27:30
These are the good bits of it. And it's trying to get it to
27:33
marry it together so that it comes out to a nice solution.
27:36
So OK, here we go. That's what.
27:38
Matters to me. Yeah, I know, absolutely.
27:41
So if if, if if I go to bed tonight and only read 1 trap.
27:45
So I think I already know what you're going to say, but if I
27:46
can only read 1 chat tonight, which chapter should I read?
27:50
Well, I obviously would say the working memory chapter because
27:52
that is what I find myself doing most of the time.
27:57
But I won't give that answer to, you know, to feel neat.
28:03
I think the confidence chapters are really emotional for a lot
28:12
of people because that's what I often hear from people.
28:15
I've never talked about this before.
28:17
I've never had an honest conversation about this.
28:20
I didn't know millions of other people felt like this.
28:23
I thought I was alone with the reality of this.
28:26
I thought my story is unique when actually it's kind of every
28:30
dyslexic person I speak to. So I think the continents
28:33
chapters are very profound for a lot of people.
28:38
And then there's a chapter in the book that's all about like
28:43
letting go of the superpower narrative and how to kind of
28:47
kind of change your thoughts on it.
28:49
So how do you change it from it's a superpower, it's a gift.
28:53
It's this like huge, you know, thing that you should be able to
28:57
be Steve Jobs or Richard Branson or whatever.
29:01
And how do you just, if you're a teacher, if you're a nurse, if
29:03
you're marking an executive, how do you see it in your life?
29:07
How do you make it valuable? How do you kind of understand
29:10
what decisive strengths mean for you if maybe you're not
29:15
extraordinary in the kind of like grand sense, but you're
29:19
extraordinary every day in the in the small moments?
29:25
And I'm really proud of that chapter because I think that's I
29:30
hate this kind of 0 to hero. It's like, either you're
29:33
struggling and it sucks and it's awful, or it's a superpower.
29:37
It's a gift. And I just feel like, why is
29:39
there not a third way of like, sometimes it sucks, but
29:41
sometimes it's great. What why is that not an
29:44
available option? So that that chapter would
29:47
probably be my answer, because I just don't think I see that
29:52
anywhere else. No, no, you don't.
29:55
And I mean the greatest thing I was ever told by was somebody
29:57
that came on here and he similar to you.
30:01
You really, really. I want to say he just dislikes
30:06
that statement. His words to me were, you know,
30:08
the whole super far thing. I remember he swore it's a bit
30:11
of BS, you know, it's to compensate for it, to make you
30:15
feel a bit better about yourself.
30:17
Is it? The best thing anybody can do is
30:20
learn to manage the kryptonite, not the superpower.
30:22
And I actually thought I was a genius statement.
30:26
Yeah. And you know, and I've kind of
30:28
like adopted that. I know what my and I think that
30:31
is one thing. You understand what your
30:33
weaknesses are. And those are your battles,
30:35
right? Those are the battles that you
30:36
face in work, in your day-to-day life.
30:39
I say in the office for me, whatever it may be,
30:41
understanding those battles and those challenges that makes if
30:45
you can battle those and understand how to how to how to
30:48
get through them, then that makes it a bit easier.
30:50
But I totally agree with you. There's there's there's no
30:52
middle ground. You're either yeah, Steve Jobs,
30:56
you're either exceptional and hey, look, me, look what I can
30:59
do. Or then it's like me and you and
31:01
we like you float by and you're like, well, you know, so that's
31:04
good. And if it's you, did you did you
31:08
find anything difficult to write?
31:09
I'm curious, has anything kind of like touched you a bit or you
31:12
got a bit like emotional about it or?
31:17
There was a few, there's a few, there's lots of stories in the
31:21
book. I, I wanted to try and make it
31:23
as sex like friendly as possible.
31:25
So I talked about, you know, my clients stories and my stories
31:30
and this taught stories of teachers, you know, being nasty
31:33
and bosses being horrible and, you know, people in my life
31:38
making jokes about it, which just, you know, weren't really
31:41
funny to be honest. Like, you know, it's just it's
31:45
like it you laugh because you don't know what else to do.
31:48
But I ultimately didn't find it funny.
31:54
But actually the bit that made me really emotional when I was
31:57
reading the audio book. And I kind of, I think people
31:59
have said that they can hear the kind of slight twang in my voice
32:03
of us when I start to kind of choke up a bit.
32:06
Is I wrote a really heartfelt acknowledgement to my mum at the
32:11
end of the book and everything that she did to help me as a, as
32:16
a kid, because my, a lot of my challenges were in adult life.
32:21
I'm not saying school was easy and, you know, went well.
32:23
And I, I couldn't really read or write until I was about 8.
32:26
So like, it's not that it went well, but it's that I had
32:31
someone who was there for me, who helped, who made it
32:34
possible, who constantly reinforced to me it doesn't
32:37
matter, you're really smart, everything's going to be OK.
32:42
So I'm just really, and I think, you know, a lot of mums play
32:45
that role. And I'm just really grateful to
32:48
her and all the other parents that are kind of doing that
32:52
heavy lifting behind the scenes, you know, the parents who are,
32:56
you know, still checking their kids work emails, you know, even
32:59
though they're 35. And, you know, my parents offer
33:02
my dissertation for me because I didn't know how to kind of do it
33:07
all, you know? And I think I'm so grateful for
33:13
all of that and that I just didn't know how to put it into
33:16
words. And I hope I did a good job of
33:18
trying to get there. But everything else, all the
33:21
challenges and all of the realities of being neurodiverse,
33:23
I've spoken about it so many times that it's not emotional
33:26
for me anymore. It's kind of just a story now
33:31
and it could be anyone else. It like, it doesn't feel like
33:36
it's got a way. But definitely all of the help
33:38
that my parents gave me as a kid is like, is really like dear to
33:43
me and probably not something I speak about so much.
33:46
You know, I think, I think there's so much to be said about
33:51
that. I, we talk about, you talk about
33:55
it. I talk about it all the time on
33:58
LinkedIn, on Instagram. We talk about dyslexia.
34:01
We talk about, you know, in adults, in, in, in children, in,
34:05
in, in juniors, in students. Rarely, rarely do parents get a
34:12
mention. The battle that a parent goes
34:15
through, particularly, you know, when they're going through
34:19
school and they're going through college and hopefully you need
34:22
the battles that those parents go face every day is it takes it
34:27
can take some of them to really dark spaces.
34:30
So I love the fact that you mentioned your mum because I
34:32
think that's that's something it just doesn't.
34:35
Ironically, I actually talked about it yesterday.
34:38
The the battles parents rarely get mentioned in the story and
34:42
it's them that go to war every day.
34:44
You know, they're the ones that do, like you said, that do the
34:46
reading, do the writing for you, you know, does this make sense?
34:50
Is it logical to you? You know, I've asked those
34:54
questions myself. I even even now, like I can't
34:58
really read properly about my glasses anyway because my eyes
35:03
are finished, I think. But times I've said to my wife,
35:09
you can just read that text for me.
35:10
Does it sound, does it sound aggressive?
35:12
Does it sound like I'm shouting? Does that make sense to you?
35:16
You know, and I even do it now, like and without those people
35:20
next to you, those supports, you know, you know, they rarely get
35:24
mentioned. So I mean, that's lovely that
35:25
you've done it. I want you to, I want you to do
35:28
me a favour if you can, because what we have here is we have an
35:34
abundance of parents that listened.
35:36
I, I would say I don't, I can see a lot of my analytics from
35:41
listeners and I know I have a really high percentage of female
35:44
listeners and probably about 40 percent, 3540% male, but a lot
35:50
of them are parents. Can you give me, if you can, can
35:54
you give me in 60 seconds? There you go.
35:59
I'll put a time stamp on it for you.
36:01
One myth about dyslexia. What would it be?
36:10
I think the thing that gets under my skin a little bit, and
36:13
I don't know if this is quite a myth, is I think sometimes we
36:19
look at the roles that dyslexic people can do as quite narrow.
36:24
So it's kind of if you're dyslexic, you get kind of
36:27
entrepreneur, actor, you know, maybe marketing and you know,
36:35
maybe sales, they're they're kind of your job role options.
36:40
And I think that that is doing a lot of harm that I see now later
36:47
on in life. Because the reality is, is that
36:51
those kids don't end up limiting themselves.
36:54
They don't not go for the jobs. You know, sometimes they do
36:57
limit themselves. Sometimes they don't go for the
36:58
careers that they want. You know, I've got, I'm working
37:00
with a client at the moment who wanted to be an engineer, but he
37:03
was told he wasn't good enough by his parents and therefore is
37:08
doing something else. And, you know, constantly is
37:11
like fighting that that kind of, I wish I was doing an engineer.
37:14
I wish I was an engineer. I wish.
37:16
Yeah. And that daily battle.
37:18
But actually what it often it, it shows up as is, you know,
37:23
another client example is I had a client I worked with who was
37:29
told that she wasn't an academic type person by her parents who
37:33
were kind of actual academics, you know, working at
37:36
universities and those kind of things.
37:38
And so she was kind of told she's the sporty one, she's the
37:41
creative 1. You know, she was kind of
37:42
pigeonholed because she wasn't quintessentially academic
37:47
because of dyslexia. And so then she went into the
37:51
civil service and she took a job break in the civil service and
37:56
and worked with me for a little while When she came back to say,
37:59
I don't know what I want to do in my life because I'm not an
38:01
academic person and everything requires academic skills for
38:07
anyone that's just listening. I put that very heavily in Earth
38:10
quotes. And so she was left in this
38:14
perpetual situation where she every day was feeling like she
38:17
wasn't meant to be in whatever job she was going to take.
38:22
And I think that that is really limiting.
38:24
Yeah, it's really limiting. And so I can see how people
38:29
could say, you know, you're dyslexic, you'll be amazing at
38:31
this, You should go in this direction.
38:34
It, it feels like quite a natural idea.
38:37
But then, you know, those people then end up going into banking,
38:40
being civil servants, working in insurance, being, you know,
38:43
dyslexic scientists, there's dyslexic criminal psychologists.
38:47
There's loads of different roles that dyslexic people are
38:50
thriving in that aren't those classic kind of jobs we would
38:55
think of. And then they live with the
38:58
daily burden of impostor syndrome.
39:01
And I think it's really important to be like, you can be
39:05
anything, you can do anything, you can succeed at anything.
39:08
Maybe you would be better at these things, but you can do it.
39:13
You are meant to be there. You are worthy.
39:15
I think that the narrow lens that we talk about dyslexic
39:19
roles and the way we talk about dyslexic careers, it's quite
39:25
damaging down the line. Yeah, I agree.
39:30
You know, you know you, you, you know me.
39:32
You know my story, my label I carried for for years, right?
39:37
Because it was said to me so many times I believed it.
39:41
And you've just said something there about parents saying, oh,
39:48
you're not academic enough. You're the sport you want.
39:50
It's funny how as dyslexics, we continue to carry those titles,
39:57
those labels, those words that are spoken to us.
40:01
We hold on to them so tightly, you know, And they're so
40:05
difficult to let go, aren't they?
40:07
And break that mole. I'm going to tell you a story
40:09
now. I said to you, I have a low
40:11
percentage or lower percentage of male lessons than I do
40:14
female. There is.
40:16
And he will listen to this and he'll comment because he
40:18
comments on every show. So there's a guy who come here,
40:23
I don't know his name, he listens to the show and I get
40:27
the impression he's a similar age to me because he talks about
40:30
school in the the early 80s, he works in a workplace and he is
40:37
dyslexic and he is ADHD, right? His manager and his managers do
40:43
not know that he's ADHD and dyslexic.
40:47
He takes his work home with him at night time for his wife to
40:50
help him on. He's too scared to tell his
40:54
manager, listen, I need some additional support.
40:57
And he's also too scared to find another job because he thinks
41:01
he's too old. And like you've just pointed
41:04
out, he fits into one type of box and they're quite difficult
41:08
jobs to find anyway. So he'd rather just suck up the
41:12
pain every day then step out of that, that box that he's stuck
41:17
in. And it that breaks me every time
41:19
he reaches out and tells me that.
41:21
But there's a priceless example of something you just talked
41:24
about that is there's someone who listens to this show that's
41:26
in that situation. I wonder how many more hide
41:31
masks in the workplace. You, you must come across them
41:34
all the time. And yeah, it's upsetting.
41:37
It really is. It upsets me.
41:39
It's really upsetting and there's so many examples I could
41:42
tell you of people not going for promotions, not going for
41:45
careers, not going for job changes because they think,
41:49
well, it's not working. But I know it could be worse.
41:52
So I'd rather stay stuck. And the sad reality is, is that
41:56
simple strategies that are easy to implement will make a huge
42:01
difference. But unfortunately, they're just
42:07
not widely available. It would just not what we talk
42:09
about. We talk about kids every single
42:11
day and we aren't supporting adults.
42:15
And I think that the change is coming.
42:18
I think that's the only thing I can say is that it really feels
42:21
like the change is coming. Like the conversation around
42:25
adult dyslexia is kind of every single day coming further
42:30
forward, coming further forward. People care more and more every
42:33
single day. And I know there's a backlash
42:35
against diversity and equity and inclusion, but it is making a
42:40
change. It's that good things are
42:41
happening. You know, hopefully it's just
42:44
not too late for some people. Yeah, I agree.
42:48
I think you there is a there is a light at the end of the
42:52
tunnel, albeit it's tiny at the moment.
42:54
But I agree with you. And you know, it's kudos to
42:57
people like you for having these conversations about adults.
43:00
You know, you drive that conversation and the more people
43:03
that talk about it, the better. As far as I'm concerned.
43:07
I'd, I'd hate anybody to go through what I went through and
43:12
end up where I ended in the places I ended.
43:15
But because it took me. So I've wasted so many years of
43:19
my life just through sheer doubt because I believed I wasn't good
43:23
enough. If I could just go back and
43:25
speak to myself and say, you know what?
43:28
Just, they're just words, man. Just forget it.
43:31
Just fly. Just let go and just fly.
43:33
And, and that's what I've told this chap, you know, I message
43:37
him and I say, listen, you need to just, you shouldn't, you
43:42
know, you have, when you have a tombstone, you have a birth date
43:45
and you have an end date and the dash in between is what you do
43:47
with your life, right? And I say that to him.
43:49
I say you need to you need to just let go and and and let go
43:53
and try. But yeah, OK, so the book right.
43:57
So I've read the book I've. Thank you.
44:01
Closed the book and I've finished the final page and
44:06
everyone else, hopefully that is listening, finishes the final
44:09
page. What do you kind of hope they
44:10
feel from it? What should be, what should we
44:12
be feeling from it? As dyslexic or as non dyslexic,
44:15
whatever. Tell me what your hope is.
44:18
I just hope that people feel like not struggling is possible.
44:23
I I know that seems like a really small hope.
44:26
I felt that I sometimes wonder if that's like playing it too
44:29
safe. I just hope that when people
44:31
close the chapter of the last page, they go, you know what?
44:36
I don't have to have low confidence anymore.
44:38
Like it's possible to make a change.
44:41
I don't have to take all my work home to my wife or, you know, I
44:45
don't have to be so exhausted at the end of the day.
44:47
Change is possible. You know, my workplace don't
44:51
recognize my strengths right now, but it's possible that
44:54
another one will. I just hope that people feel
44:57
like change is possible because the biggest thing you know, I've
45:02
talked about, you know, explaining what how people's
45:05
brains work, explaining the strategies, but I also want
45:08
people to realize that the strategies are easy.
45:10
I just feel like sometimes it all makes it seem so hard and
45:13
complicated. And actually it's really not.
45:17
It's really not. And I just sometimes feel like
45:20
some people say that, you know, the revolution needs to be so
45:26
big and grand. And I'm not saying that we
45:28
shouldn't try for that. But actually it's just a few
45:32
tweaks and a few changes will make everything a lot easier.
45:37
So I just, I wanted to feel easy and possible, I think because
45:39
otherwise if it's too hard, there's a risk people won't do
45:41
it. Yeah, well, listen, you know, I
45:47
totally agree with you, I think. No, I've, I've had so many
45:51
conversations about not just dyslexia, but the whole, the
45:55
whole scenario, the whole picture.
45:56
And yeah, you know, I've spoken about what needs to be done,
46:00
what's the radical shift we need to do?
46:03
But sometimes a tiny little rippling up in, in a lake, it
46:07
does get out, right. And so, yeah, I mean, from your
46:11
own point of view with your dyslexia, was there a, was there
46:16
a moment? Was there a sudden moment in
46:19
your life that you can think of when you made sense of it?
46:22
Or are you still making sense of it?
46:26
I definitely think it's a journey, not a destination and
46:30
and like the so I I started dyslexia adults in 2019, but I
46:36
was diagnosed with dyslexia at age 7.
46:39
I moved schools to, you know, learn how to read and write.
46:43
I yeah, there's been so many iterations of like learning and
46:48
growing. I was fired because of dyslexia.
46:51
I had was put my probation. It was extended multiple times
46:54
because of dyslexia. Like there's been so many
46:56
moments of having to learn and grow.
46:58
But let's just take, I started dyslexia and adults in 2019.
47:04
Step 1 was just learning the basics of, you know, how to
47:07
navigate the reality of my brain, how to deal with
47:10
processing, deal with working memory, deal with executive
47:13
functions, deal with tiredness, you know, all of that kind of
47:17
stuff. And you know, as you know,
47:19
reading and writing almost feels like the bottom of the list of
47:21
things I needed to navigate. Then it was confidence and
47:26
confidence was, you know, the kind of thing that was holding
47:30
me back. And that was the kind of first
47:32
step. And then I guess, you know, the
47:35
last 18 months, two years has been about really letting the
47:39
strengths shine because the challenges feel a little bit
47:41
under control. I'm not saying they're fixed,
47:43
they're under control. I think that's the best way to
47:45
describe it. I'd say it's really about how to
47:49
let the strengths shine a little bit more.
47:51
It's the kind of like bit that chews on my brain.
47:56
Now that the book is launched, I want to kind of take a take
47:59
stock and decide what to do with the business and how to kind of
48:02
take this next stage and what what that looks like.
48:04
And when I'm making those decisions, I'm often thinking
48:07
about, well, what are my dislikes and strengths?
48:08
And you know, how do I want to put them at the forefront?
48:11
Because I think five years ago when I last did that, it was how
48:14
do I navigate my challenges? How do I deal with my problems?
48:17
How do I make this possible to do so?
48:22
I think that's probably the kind of later stage of, of how I
48:26
think about things. Not to say that I haven't
48:29
thought about it at all until now, but you know, fine tuning I
48:32
guess would be the stage I'm at. Interesting.
48:37
And in your coaching, I mean, I don't, I don't want you to tell
48:41
any stories, but what what's kind of like, OK, what's 1
48:46
sentence you hear more than Anna when someone, when someone comes
48:50
to you for some, some coaching, What's 1 sentence you hear more
48:52
than any other sentence is the one sentence that we all come
48:55
out with as dyslexic adults. There's a lot that are like
49:02
really common. I think the one we talked about
49:07
of, you know, people thinking that they're, you know, comments
49:14
of the things that people said to them or experiences they've
49:18
had with workplaces or teachers or whatever.
49:21
I do think people think that that's quite unique where it's
49:24
really, it's like everyday, every person, every situation.
49:28
I like, I've never had someone that doesn't have that story and
49:32
that isn't kind of quietly still there in the back of the head
49:36
all the time. I think that's like a kind of
49:40
really common one. I think the other one that's not
49:48
so much said but is happening all the time is that people
49:55
think, or maybe, and maybe they do say it actually, this is
49:58
another kind of really common one that they say is they say, I
50:02
thought everyone thought like that when I kind of explained
50:05
just like 6 strengths and how it works.
50:06
They're like, but doesn't everyone think like that?
50:08
And I'm like, no, that's it. That is what we're all shouting
50:13
and screaming at you to believe in.
50:14
And they're like, oh, then I do that every day.
50:17
I'm like, I know that's why it's a strength.
50:22
So yeah, I think the kind of line that I hear a lot and I
50:25
kind of just chuckle and I always say to them, OK, you're
50:28
on the right path. If someone says to me, I thought
50:31
everyone else thought like that, I didn't realise that that was
50:34
what it was. I'm like, OK, this person's
50:36
going to be fine. They're ready to kind of fly the
50:38
nest and go. So that I think is the it's.
50:43
Quite emotional. Is it quite emotional when when
50:46
you set them free, Is it quite emotional I.
50:48
Bet it's really sad. I really get really close to
50:53
them and know a lot about their lives and their story and they
50:56
often tell me things they've never told other people.
51:00
And it's really sad to say goodbye.
51:02
And I would love to kind of, you know, see them every week and
51:05
speak to them all the time. And, and often I, I feel you.
51:09
Your vibe obviously brings in your tribe.
51:11
So I speak to a lot of people who are similar to me or kind of
51:15
see themselves in my story. And so I really, I really miss
51:20
them. And sometimes I kind of keep in
51:22
touch with them and, you know, maybe do talks at their
51:24
workplaces or, you know, they come back for more sessions and
51:30
it's lovely. It's a really, it's a privilege
51:34
to do this kind of work. For you any any any amazing
51:38
success stories that you can share?
51:42
Has anyone ever, has anyone ever come to you?
51:46
Well, we're we're all broken as dyslexics, but has anyone come
51:49
to you really broken and you and you thought yourself and they've
51:52
gone away and you're like super proud because you've made them
51:55
less broke or more fixed, however we want to word it.
52:00
Well, I hope that that's everyone.
52:02
I hope that that's like the reality of how everyone feels.
52:05
That's how it feels at the end that I can see significant
52:10
improvements. Sometimes I think the biggest 1
52:13
is where you worry people aren't making improvements and you
52:17
think to yourself, are you getting this?
52:20
Like we're talking and I can see that you're saying yes, but are
52:24
you doing it at home? Is it happening at work?
52:27
Are you really working? And I and the bit that always
52:32
makes me feel really grateful and gives me like, kind of
52:35
shivers is people will often say, you know, my wife, my
52:41
husband, my boss, my, you know, sister, whatever they say that
52:46
you're the best thing that's ever happened to me.
52:47
And they're like, who is this Natalie?
52:49
She's just like, it's unbelievable.
52:51
And so that, like, really gives me like, you know, like, yeah.
52:54
It makes you feel nice. Yeah, like the hairs on my arms
52:57
stand up when people say that. Like I've got when you were
53:01
saying, is there one success story?
53:02
I've got one client I've worked with who's an entrepreneur.
53:05
So sometimes the entrepreneurs, they stay for longer because
53:07
they evolve faster. They have to kind of evolve in
53:10
their business. So they, they evolve faster and
53:13
need more support. Of course, 1 entrepreneur who's
53:17
I've worked with for a few years and he often says to me that his
53:23
wife says that I'm the best thing that ever happened to him.
53:25
And I think that's really sweet. And sometimes she's like in the
53:29
back of our calls and she's like, I just can't imagine life
53:31
without you anymore. You make such a difference and
53:35
that's really nice and he he runs a motorcycle dealership in
53:40
the US and recently the, the kind of brand that he carries
53:47
with motorcycle came to him and said that he's the most
53:51
successful dealership they have in the US of this particular
53:55
brand. And, and he, you know, said I
54:01
didn't believe in myself two to three years ago and like now I
54:04
believe in myself to have achieved all of this.
54:08
So I think moments like that feel really special.
54:11
Yeah, I must. I must.
54:14
Yeah. I love her.
54:16
That's incredible. You know, to be able to, to
54:20
influence in the right word, but to be able to make someone
54:23
change their thought process from outing, feeling broke and
54:29
not understanding yourself, which is what we all go through,
54:32
to being successful, like our ultra successful.
54:35
In his case, I must make you feel great.
54:37
I'd like. That's a lovely story, that is.
54:41
Yeah. Yeah.
54:43
A lot of adults as well as parents that listen and
54:47
obviously some, some communicated me someday.
54:49
But can you kind of like, because I can't put it into
54:53
words, can you tell me in your words what you think masking
54:57
looks like in adults with dyslexia?
54:59
Can you so so maybe these people can understand what it feels
55:03
like? Again, I don't know if this is
55:06
the exact answer you wanted, but this is what I always say to
55:09
people is that masking is hiding your dyslexic challenges or ADHD
55:16
challenges or whatever. It's not making any of the kind
55:22
of challenges you have easier. And I think that's something
55:25
that people kind of know, but they don't really consciously
55:29
think about. And so masking means that work
55:33
is going to take you longer. It's going to be more tiring.
55:36
It's going to, you're going to constantly feel like you have
55:40
this fear of being found out because if they knew what it was
55:43
really taking and how hard it really was for you, that's the
55:47
fear that kind of is crippling. So I think it's really important
55:51
to understand that when you are masking your dyslexia, you are
55:54
not making any of the challenges easier.
55:57
You are making everything harder.
56:00
So masking is wading through treacle and hoping people don't
56:05
notice. And so I think what I would
56:08
implore people to say, what I would implore to people and say
56:13
is if you manage your disaster successfully, then everything
56:18
will be easier and you won't need to mask.
56:22
That's the reality of of kind of what I am having to kind of
56:26
grapple with is people want to mask because they don't want
56:29
people to know how much they're struggling, but they don't make
56:32
it any easier for themselves. Of course they want to hide that
56:35
challenge. Whereas if we make it easier for
56:38
people, you don't need to mask because you're capable.
56:41
Successful things are easier for you, you're doing a better job.
56:45
And so masking is the most perverse thing to do because it
56:50
doesn't help you. It doesn't make you any more
56:53
efficient, any more capable. It literally just is hiding how
56:58
you're struggling. That's all it's doing.
57:02
Thank you. I love that.
57:04
So if anybody's listening, I know there are some that's
57:08
what's happening, you know, speak to Natalie, reach out to
57:13
her because there are so many adults still.
57:17
And you know, for me, there are, I know there are lots that are
57:22
in my age group and there are some definitely some slightly
57:25
younger than me there because I know that I know who they are.
57:28
And that's why I wanted you to answer that question because
57:32
it's draining, right? It's exhausting masking.
57:36
It's absolutely draining. Like it's a killer, right?
57:41
So listen, I've got a few more questions for you, but before I
57:45
ask the last few questions, just tell people where they can get
57:48
your book. Where can they buy it?
57:49
Where is it available? Tell them where they can get it
57:52
because it's really important that we get that out.
57:55
OK, so firstly, it is an audio book as well.
57:57
So if anyone is listening the whole time going well, I'm not
57:59
going to read a book. Are you joking?
58:00
A dyslexic person writing a book for dyslexic people.
58:04
How perverse. So firstly, it's an audio book
58:06
in all the Audible book locations, it's on Spotify, it's
58:09
on Audible, all of those things. Secondly, it's currently in all
58:15
of the book shops. So it's in Waterstones and if
58:18
you continue to buy it in Waterstones, it will stay in
58:21
Waterstones for people to kind of discover and find.
58:24
And so it's really important in the first six months that you
58:27
buy in book stops. So it stays in book shops, but
58:30
of course it's on Amazon. It's, you know, in all those
58:34
other places and anyone that's listening in other parts of the
58:37
world, it's published in the US, it's published in Australia, and
58:41
you know, it's published in in loads of different places as
58:43
well. So you can find it in all of
58:44
those places as well. Good, because we have a we have
58:48
a really global audience on here as far I think the top listen is
58:52
America, then Canada, UK, Australia, Philippines is really
58:57
high as well. So yeah, all over the world.
58:59
Listen. So it's available, right?
59:01
So listen, this section is something that I've added in for
59:04
the last four guests and it seems to be people will love it,
59:07
right. So it's just a quick fire round
59:10
now for dyslexics, it's not particularly easy.
59:12
So first thing that comes into your head, right?
59:15
OK, What's one piece of advice you wish somebody had given you
59:18
20 years ago? Don't worry about all of your
59:23
challenges, focus on your strengths.
59:25
I know that everyone says that, but it's so true.
59:28
I spent years worrying about my challenges and all I needed to
59:34
do was improve them, not get rid of them.
59:36
I think that's the bit that made a huge difference is I thought I
59:39
had to get rid of them but all I needed to do is make them 10 to
59:43
20% better and life is so much easier.
59:47
Yeah, good film or music. Oh my gosh I've got ADHD so I
59:53
struggled to sit through films but I do love them so I think it
59:58
would be music. OK good people finish this
1:00:02
sentence. People with dyslexia are.
1:00:07
Storytellers and complex thinkers.
1:00:12
Nice, rewrite the book. We'll keep the book as it is.
1:00:22
Oh, keep the book as it is, rewriting it, It would be my
1:00:25
words. OK, so.
1:00:28
Listen. You have to do 9 round.
1:00:31
I did 9 rounds of editing the book and I only finished editing
1:00:35
in February and it was published.
1:00:37
You do the audio as well by the way, is the audio you?
1:00:40
It is, yeah. And so I'm still, you know,
1:00:46
fairly fresh from the editing process.
1:00:48
So the idea of rewriting it right now is my worst nightmare.
1:00:54
I'm. Happy.
1:00:54
Yeah, we'll keep it as it is. Yeah.
1:00:57
OK, so listen, I, I ask everybody this question at the
1:01:01
end and I have some beautiful answers and answers of hope and,
1:01:07
and, and so the podcast is called Thick No more because of
1:01:13
me, right? I would like you to if you can
1:01:19
explain your thoughts or what the words thick no more mean to
1:01:22
you in Natalie's mind. I think thick no more means to
1:01:28
me that you are no longer thinking of dyslexia and binary
1:01:34
terms of bad or good. It's not a gift.
1:01:38
It's not a like endless difficulty and frustration.
1:01:43
It's just a difference that is neutral.
1:01:47
I think about things one way, other people think about things
1:01:50
another way. I work this way, you work that
1:01:53
way. Mine has a lot of value and
1:01:56
ideas and success. Yours also has a lot of ideas,
1:02:00
value and success. Just different.
1:02:03
And that's fine. Beautiful.
1:02:06
So listen, Natalie, first of all, I know how busy you are and
1:02:10
I'm exhausted. You must be.
1:02:11
So thank you for our second podcast.
1:02:15
I reckon any person to do 2 podcasts with you.
1:02:17
So that's a that's a plus. But most of all from me
1:02:20
personally and all the hundreds and hundreds of people that you
1:02:23
have, thank you for your honesty, your passion, the fact
1:02:29
that you're, the things that you're doing to help people
1:02:31
understand dyslexia and understand that it isn't
1:02:34
something to hide from. You know, there are, as we've
1:02:38
talked about, there are ways through these situations.
1:02:40
So listen guys, listen to the audio book, read the book if you
1:02:44
want to read it. It's a fantastic, fantastic
1:02:48
thing that you do. So honestly, thank you so much
1:02:51
and everything I'll say to anyone listening Listen, I, I
1:02:54
really, it's important to me as someone that did mask and did
1:02:58
hide that this book is read by as many adults as possible,
1:03:03
right? So if you listen to this, and I
1:03:04
don't know, I have over 2000 hours of listening content in
1:03:09
over the last, only like 5 or 6 podcasts, right?
1:03:12
So there's loads of you that listen but don't follow.
1:03:15
So please follow it. And the more people that follow
1:03:18
it, the more it gets out into the ether.
1:03:20
And that's the most important thing.
1:03:21
I want to find people that are struggling every day like the
1:03:24
people we've just talked about. So Natalie, thank you so much.
1:03:29
Thanks for your time and best of luck with the book.
1:03:32
Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it.