Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 98: Are All CSAT Therapists the Same? What Actually Matters in Addiction Recovery - with Jacob Fletcher

Transcript

98: Are All CSAT Therapists the Same? What Actually Matters in Addiction Recovery - with Jacob Fletcher · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey everybody. So I'll tell you, there's this
0:03
thing that comes up from time to time that just kind of, I don't
0:05
know, drives me a little bit crazy.
0:07
I value it and I know why people do it.
0:09
But people will say, hey, I need ACSAT therapist or maybe a
0:13
partner that's been betrayed says, hey, you got to see ACSAT
0:16
certified sexual addiction therapist because and do we know
0:20
why that is the case? And are all CSAT's created
0:24
equal? Just because someone has a
0:26
letter CSAT behind their name doesn't necessarily mean that
0:30
you're going to have the same therapeutic experience.
0:33
And that's not an attack on the certification, but it's an
0:36
important conversation about the difference between training,
0:39
specialization, emotional presence, and actual clinical
0:43
depth. So because we've seen some men
0:45
spend years in recovery doing all the right things on paper,
0:48
you they can still laugh feeling emotionally disconnected, really
0:52
still stuck in shame and unable to build intimacy.
0:56
So I don't, I want to make sure that when we talk about CSAT
0:59
therapist, they're not all created equal.
1:02
And what actually matters is that recovery work and how they
1:06
go about it. So maybe today we'll end up
1:07
giving you some things that if you interview with CSAT, you can
1:10
be asking maybe just favorite interview questions.
1:13
And I got a qualified person here because I got a CSAT with
1:16
us. I'll issue him here in a second.
1:22
Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
1:24
I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
1:27
in this space today. What we're going to be doing is
1:28
diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
1:32
authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
1:35
about a single action or a moment.
1:37
It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
1:40
the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
1:43
So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
1:46
regular listener, know this. What you're building here goes
1:49
beyond a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
1:52
change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
1:55
your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
1:58
fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
2:00
So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started.
2:04
I am so excited. Jacob Fletcher is here with me,
2:07
and it's fun because he's local. Not all of our professionals are
2:10
local. So I get a chance to hang out
2:12
with this guy. Look shoulder to shoulder.
2:14
He is in the CS realm. We brought him on to choose
2:19
recovery services because we're doing things like full
2:23
disclosures and intensives and just serving as many people as
2:27
we can. So just excited to have him
2:29
here. We're going to jump into what is
2:31
the difference between Seasats and all some other parts of
2:34
recovery. But Jacob, want to introduce
2:36
yourself? Tell us, tell everybody anything
2:38
you want to say about you. Yeah, thanks.
2:41
Thanks for inviting me on. I I, like you said, I'm a seasat
2:44
therapist. I have EMDR and an accelerated
2:48
resolution therapy training, so I do those for trauma, trauma
2:51
work. I'm here local and American
2:53
Fork. I definitely take a lot of
2:56
different modalities and try to just incorporate all of them
2:59
into my practice. I mainly focus on sex addiction
3:03
and pornography addiction. That's mainly what I do here in
3:05
my practice. I think you and I have Luke have
3:08
talked about how we don't just choose this profession.
3:10
Usually it's because we've been through it ourselves and that's
3:13
true with me. I've been through, I've been
3:15
through the struggle, I've been through the pain of it, and
3:17
that's why I'm passionate about helping other people go through
3:20
it. And yeah, that's what I focus on
3:23
here in my practice. That's wonderful.
3:25
Why did you get the CSAT certification?
3:27
Why didn't you want that, Jacob? Yeah, I think, I think to to
3:32
kind of start, I got the certification because of just
3:36
the noise around the CSAT certification.
3:39
There's so much noise around CSAT's kind of the pinnacle or
3:43
it's the complete package if you're wanting to overcome sex
3:46
addiction. And I think that's what got me
3:49
interested is just how many people started talking about it
3:51
around me. I was like kind of curious, you
3:53
know, Oh, I, I, I do that. I work with people, I focus on
3:57
pornography addiction. I don't have that.
3:59
So am I missing something? That was kind of the first
4:02
thought. It was actually a Co worker who
4:04
worked in private practice right next to me, in the office next
4:07
to me. And she was CSAT.
4:09
And that's why that's really what got me thinking is, well, I
4:12
don't have that, those letters behind my name.
4:15
Yeah. Yeah.
4:16
So that, yeah, you're right, there is a lot of noise around
4:19
it. If people are like, OK, who
4:21
know, if anybody's going to know about sexually compulsive
4:23
behavior, who's going to know? And so we drift into that world.
4:27
So one thing clients may not realize is how different CSAT
4:30
therapist can actually be. So can we break down the
4:34
different styles in different types of therapists?
4:37
Some therapists are really, really structured in their
4:39
approach, behavior focused, some emphasize on sobriety plans,
4:43
that kind of stuff. And some are more focused on
4:47
different types of treatment like trauma and attachment
4:49
focus. So can you talk about the
4:52
different Csats, how they might show up in their world with
4:54
treating clients, how it's not just one?
4:56
Way I would say I would say there is kind of a core or
5:02
what's the word I'm looking for the cookie cutter CSAT and that
5:07
that really would be addiction focused very structured sobriety
5:13
focused. How much sobriety do you have if
5:16
you don't have 90 days? We can't even start working
5:18
together. That was a big part of the
5:20
training that I there. There's kind of two models,
5:23
right? There's the harm reduction model
5:25
where the client is still struggling while I'm seeing
5:28
them. Maybe they're not meeting their
5:30
goals, they're continuing to relapse.
5:32
But the harm reduction model would say, well, I can't dictate
5:36
how much progress they're making.
5:37
Even if from my perspective, maybe they're not hitting these
5:40
markers, they're still better in therapy working than kicking
5:44
them out and right, not doing the work at all.
5:47
So we're, we're still reducing the harm that they're
5:50
experiencing their life by getting them help and support.
5:53
Whereas I think the a very structured, sometimes some Csats
5:57
would be like, if you can't go 90 days of sobriety, we can't do
6:00
any work. There is we can't even start
6:03
because you're desensitized, you're not seeing things
6:05
clearly. And I think that the CSAT model
6:08
is really heavy into you're an addict, you need to accept that
6:11
or you can't get better. Whereas I think there are other
6:14
groups that they actually will say the opposite.
6:16
They don't believe compulsive pornography viewing is an
6:20
addiction. And I'm a CSAT and I stay in the
6:24
middle and I look at these two groups going what's best for the
6:27
client. Is it, is it If the client comes
6:30
in and says, this is resonating with me, I'm an addict and that
6:34
empowers me to say it and I need, I need to know that every
6:37
day. That's the language I'm using
6:40
because that's what's best for my client.
6:41
If the client comes in and says I feel weak, I feel like all my
6:45
strengths have been ripped from me, I don't Labeling myself as
6:48
an addict doesn't help me. I'm not going to label them as
6:51
an addict and say, hey, you're in denial.
6:54
You need to accept you're an addict or you can't get better.
6:56
It's what's best because both of those frameworks have truth to
6:59
them, right? I have, I've, I'll go toe to toe
7:02
with any professional in this. I don't think that it's we need
7:06
to swing all one way and every, everyone needs to accept they're
7:09
an addict. But I also don't think that we
7:11
can say that compulsive pornography viewing can't ever
7:15
be an addiction. I think that's just as
7:17
delusional as saying that everyone that's viewed porn is
7:20
an addict. And so I think that we really
7:22
need to evaluate each individual basis and look at what's
7:26
healthiest and best for that client.
7:29
I love what you're saying there. OK.
7:31
So Jacob, the question I have for you is there's almost two
7:33
different approaches within the CSAT world.
7:35
One thing clients may not realize is how different CSAT
7:38
therapist can actually be. So you're pointing that out
7:40
right now, Blistery breakdown, the styles, one that's really
7:44
behavior focused and one that's really somatic focused, one
7:47
that's really about accountability, relapse
7:49
prevention or one that's really more on trauma and attachment
7:53
focused. And like you said, you kind of
7:55
go more down the middle, but can you talk more about this?
7:58
Yeah, definitely. So I think the behavior approach
8:02
would, for those that are just tuning in or just learning about
8:05
this, the behavior approach really would be if you're not
8:09
doing the behavior and your sobriety day is where you're
8:13
getting more and more days of sobriety, then you're getting
8:16
better, you're doing your work, you're progressing.
8:19
Whereas the other model is more about what are you actually
8:24
feeling? Are you gaining more emotional
8:26
regulation? I don't care if you're saying
8:29
you've gone two months without porn.
8:31
Are you actually feeling like you're able to manage your
8:34
emotions and the stressors, the challenging things that come up
8:38
in your life? Or is that is that kind of
8:40
stayed the same even though you have two months of sobriety, do
8:43
you still feel like you can't handle your emotions and you're
8:45
not gaining that ability? And so the behavior, it's really
8:48
just, we're just looking at the behavior.
8:51
Is that improving? If it is, we're good.
8:53
Whereas this one's less about the behavior and more about
8:56
what's the experience inside your body.
8:59
And where I say I stay in the middle is I really do believe we
9:03
need both, right? I feel like we need a therapist
9:06
that can learn these skills and could be attuned to bowl because
9:10
if you're, if you're doing the somatic work and you're really
9:12
learning how to deal with those problems, but we're also not
9:15
keeping the person accountable. Do how is your acting outgoing,
9:19
right? You're we want them to be
9:21
gaining the skills to be handling these difficult things
9:24
in the somatic approach, but we also want them to be accountable
9:27
to. Are you still, do you still have
9:29
those voyeuristic behaviors? Are you still acting out?
9:32
Are you still? If we're never checking in with
9:34
that, then I think we're not keeping them accountable.
9:37
But if we're only checking in with that, then we're not doing
9:40
the deeper work. It's not.
9:41
Oh, good. Yeah.
9:43
Oh good. Let's talk about my favorite
9:46
questions to ask a therapist. So if my I don't know, somebody
9:50
with my family would say, hey, Luke and I know I can't work
9:53
with your organization because we're family, you know,
9:56
relationship stuff. I'm going to go talk to some
9:59
therapist. What should I ask himself?
10:00
I know. So I know they know what they're
10:02
doing. What questions you ask.
10:04
Let me give you the let me give you my top few, Jacob, and tell
10:07
me what your thoughts are about these.
10:08
My first favorite 1 is how do you define recovery?
10:11
Asking a therapist how they would define it because this.
10:14
Feels a. Lot immediately about the
10:16
therapist, how they define recovery, if it's almost
10:20
entirely about sobriety or not, right?
10:23
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, the first thing that comes
10:26
to mind is the answer they give you.
10:30
Will to your point is such a good question.
10:32
It will help you real recognize and realize are they stuck in
10:36
one box or do they have a dynamic approach where they're
10:39
considering both approaches? Yeah, yeah.
10:42
I think that's that's such too. Heavily weighted one way or the
10:44
other. Sorry to interrupt you.
10:46
No. So good, Yeah.
10:47
Yeah. What do you think about this
10:49
question? So another one of my favorite
10:51
questions, what do you think drives compulsive sexual
10:53
behavior? Because it's going to help the
10:55
client hear the therapist underlying framework, whether
10:58
they're going to be do they talk about behavior?
11:00
Do they understand trauma? Do they understand attachment?
11:03
Do they understand dissification?
11:05
So I think about if that person asked that therapist what drives
11:08
sexually compulsive behavior, what would you be listening for?
11:12
I mean, anything you want to talk about that with Jacob, but
11:14
what would you be listening for? Yeah, Trump, you said the big
11:18
one, trauma. What has happened in their past
11:20
that has LED them to be in a position of if re experience
11:25
that pain over and over. Another big one I would look for
11:28
is emotional regulation, right? Has the person not learned how
11:33
to deal with certain emotions? Yeah, because we learned to deal
11:36
with people who are struggling. The client who's struggling
11:39
knows how to deal with certain emotions very well.
11:42
They're thriving in a lot of areas.
11:44
It's not like they're stuck and they're they can't do anything.
11:47
They're thriving in a lot of emotions.
11:49
But then there's a certain few emotions that they haven't
11:51
learned how to deal with. So that's another kind of
11:54
leading us to another question that I would ask is what are
12:00
you? What are some of the go to
12:02
skills that you'll teach me as a client learning how to deal with
12:06
emotions? What emotional regulation skills
12:08
do you do? And if they're kind of just like
12:10
brush that over and then go to something else, it's like, OK,
12:13
maybe maybe that's an indicator that they don't deal with a lot
12:17
of helping the client deal with emotions and gain better
12:20
emotional regulation. Yeah, see if they only talk
12:23
about behavior only, just list the 8 off.
12:25
You already listed a few of them, but if they only talk of
12:28
behavior, do they actually understand trauma?
12:30
Do they actually understand attachment?
12:31
Do they treat around that they understand shame,
12:34
disassociation? The other 4 you mentioned one of
12:37
them, I love nervousness and dysregulation.
12:40
Are they going to, do they understand emotional avoidance?
12:43
Do they understand entitlement? Do they understand relational
12:46
deficits? Or they just talk about
12:47
behavior, because that's a problematic if we're just
12:49
talking behavior. Exactly.
12:51
We're never going to address the underlying issues and people are
12:53
just going to stay stuck. Yeah, and you and you can, you
12:57
can totally seem like you're progressing, right?
13:00
I, I've experienced that in my own life where I'm like, cool, I
13:03
have the most sobriety I ever have, but I wasn't working on
13:06
the emotions. And I realized very quickly that
13:09
but you can go years and still be stuck in here, right?
13:13
That's so disheartening. So many clients showing up,
13:16
years and years, decades stuck in the same spot again, and we
13:20
find out that it's heavily focused on one way or the other
13:23
and not a good balance in the middle.
13:25
We're going to take a quick break for a moment.
13:27
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There is early bird pricing that ends May 31st and we would love
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to have you with us. Well, let's get back to our
14:31
episode. Hey, what about this one, Jacob?
14:34
They're asking a therapist, how do you approach relapse?
14:37
This is huge because a strong therapist usually won't respond
14:40
with just punishment or shame or try harder.
14:43
You're going to want to hear other things.
14:44
What do you think about that? How do you approach relapse?
14:48
And I'll just speak from personal experience.
14:50
The way I approach it is I, the first question I'll ask is what
14:57
exercise did they try to do beforehand and what exercise are
15:00
they doing after? So it's we're learning from
15:02
every relapse, right? We look at as what lessons are
15:06
we learning and what did we learn about ourselves through
15:09
that process? Maybe it's that we need to shame
15:11
ourself less. Maybe that's literally the
15:13
lesson that we're learning is we need to learn how to take care
15:17
of ourselves after a relapse. Right.
15:20
Continue to do the skills, continue to be present.
15:23
Maybe they're they're going, they're swaying too far the
15:26
other way after a relapse and they need a we need to learn
15:29
consistency even when the day doesn't go our way.
15:32
Yeah. But yeah, it's really learning
15:33
from it. I like that so much because
15:36
you're talking about pattern analysis, right?
15:38
Talking about what happened before and after.
15:40
My biggest fear? Just sitting in the seat of
15:42
somebody that leaned into a life full of secrecy and hiding was
15:47
as I just needed to be perfect. As soon as I got in the
15:49
therapist office, it was like so much pain from just so much pain
15:54
from being caught, so much have gone like, I will never do this
15:57
again. And I remember a therapist
15:59
asking me like, hey, so not just never doing this again, but
16:04
digging into patterns, understanding, relapse
16:07
prevention, not never happening again, but how do you respond to
16:10
the patterns that are coming up to get you back to a life that
16:13
used to be in? Yeah, yeah.
16:15
And I asked this question and this is just it's just to get
16:19
their minds to think a completely different way.
16:21
I recognize that there that this is an extreme question, but I'll
16:25
ask the question like if you had to choose if you would rather
16:29
continue to have slips, but you're actually gaining some
16:32
greater emotional regulation and you're starting to gain some
16:35
inner peace. But the slips maybe star still
16:37
there in the beginning of recovery or we eliminate the the
16:41
slips. You have no more slips with
16:43
corn, but you still have no confidence, you still can't
16:46
handle your emotions, you still have no peace.
16:48
Which would you choose? And it gets their brain to start
16:51
realizing that it's not just all behavior.
16:54
That's a touchy, that's a, that's a, I'm glad you're
16:56
bringing this up. That's a touchy subject, right?
16:58
Yeah. That's the one where, oh,
17:01
especially the partners in the room, you know, the, the amount
17:04
of pain, thinking about a slip or a relapse, right?
17:08
Yeah. Just never doing that behavior
17:10
again. OK.
17:12
Hey, Jacob. So what do you, you know, when
17:14
you went through the training, did you do you utilize all the
17:17
content that comes in the CSAT world when you go get your
17:20
training, when your certification?
17:23
Oh, how does that work for you? And you're in practice?
17:26
Yeah, I, and this is true with every training I've gotten, I
17:29
tend to take the powerful things are going to help my clients
17:32
transform and I leave the stuff that I feel is not helpful or
17:36
doesn't resonate. And that's kind of what I've
17:39
done with the C sat is there's a lot of powerful things that I've
17:41
taken from it and I still used to this day and there's some
17:44
frameworks that haven't been super helpful.
17:47
And so I I leave those. I don't feel like it's a one
17:49
package fits all and I have to use it all.
17:52
Yeah, that makes sense. And is that based upon the
17:56
client or is that just your general rule of practice?
17:58
I don't know if that question makes any sense.
18:01
Are you taking part in pieces with each client or are you
18:03
doing that in the model you use? I think it's more the model I
18:08
use where if they kind of have these things where you know,
18:12
like the 90 day sobriety or they can't make real progression or
18:16
focusing too much on the behavior, that's the stuff that
18:19
I won't leave you because that model doesn't fit with what's
18:22
been proven to work and right. People are struggling with
18:25
pornography. Yeah, makes sense.
18:29
OK, so everybody let's let's give in a real life example of a
18:33
therapist that's a CSAT that you know, because they're not all
18:36
created equal, what they'll do in their treatment.
18:39
So behaviour focused versus somatic and experiential.
18:43
OK, so you have this beginning part of the journey where I
18:48
think especially to your partner in healing, you want to know
18:51
what progress looks like. And frankly, there's some things
18:54
that don't necessarily look like progress or don't feel like
18:56
they're moving fast enough. So in the beginning you have a
19:00
person that's maybe they're acting out pretty often.
19:02
There's a dopamine, those receptors, not a lot of distance
19:06
between them over saturated with dopamine needs a reset.
19:10
And you're going to be focused a lot more on behavior to begin
19:12
with. Then you are going to be so much
19:15
on body based experience, attachment focused because we
19:19
need to get a reset when it comes to dopamine.
19:22
What have you noticed there Jacob?
19:24
In the in what you seen with your clients?
19:26
Yeah. And one thing I do early on with
19:28
my clients is just give that education on why things are
19:33
actually harder in the beginning.
19:35
A lot of times, you'd think we would all know this, but a lot
19:38
of us don't know this. I didn't learn this until way
19:41
later, and I wish I had known this early on.
19:44
And it's almost like I give this funny example of the DARE
19:47
officer that comes to your school and says, don't do drugs,
19:49
they're bad and that's it. There's no education on what's
19:53
happening in my brain when I do them.
19:55
Why are they bad? And I think for not to use the
19:58
word bad in this, but the education around what's
20:01
happening in the brain to make things so excruciatingly
20:04
difficult in early recovery, right?
20:07
We've so when you hit that pleasure sensor in the brain,
20:10
when you do something that's very pleasurable in the brain
20:13
and you hit that pleasure sensor with sex or chocolate cake or
20:17
anything you your pre synapses. Neuron is sending out the
20:21
dopamine and your post synapsis neuron is receiving it.
20:25
What happens when you're just flooding it with dopamine over
20:28
and over and over? It's similar to the person at a
20:31
hospital hitting the morphine button over and over and over.
20:34
Eventually the hospital's going to cut them off.
20:36
It's like, hey, you've had too much dopamine, we're going to
20:39
cut you off. Your neurons actually do that.
20:42
They actually you if you start with just a basic example, 10
20:46
receptors on the post synaptist side, you'll actually go down to
20:51
like 5 or 6. So you it actually your brain
20:54
eliminates some receptors to balance out that that pleasure
20:58
pain. And so when you're going years
21:01
and years of just hitting that pleasure sensor, that's actually
21:04
why things are starting to become hard.
21:06
Just basic task going to work, checking emails is starting to
21:09
become so hard because you don't have enough of your post
21:14
synapsis receptors to to really to to receive that pleasure.
21:19
And so in the beginning phases, it's so important to stop
21:23
reinforcing that behavior and to start leaning into the hard,
21:27
difficult task. And your body will actually
21:29
start, neuroplasticity is what we call it.
21:32
Your body will actually start creating those receptors again,
21:35
so we can actually feel pleasure when we do normal activities.
21:39
OK, so this is solid and please read the book Dopamine Nation if
21:43
you've never heard it before because it nails the subject.
21:46
OK, So what I want to just kind of the reason we went there is
21:51
this Jacob, I love the skill set that you have of noticing in the
21:54
beginning, we're going to really focus on behavior and this
21:56
bright piece right here, right now because of we got this,
22:00
what's happening in the brain. And then trauma and attachment
22:03
focus will come as we go. So there has to be this
22:06
professional and new something balance bolt that doesn't use
22:08
one. Because do you stay?
22:11
Behavior, the sobriety focused forever.
22:14
You're going to get stuck if you focus on attachment really
22:17
quickly. You're not going to make
22:18
anywhere because you still got this.
22:20
You're still going to be high. You're still going to be out of
22:23
your mind for being able to really grasp attachment based
22:25
focus concepts or be able to notice what's happening inside
22:27
your body. Do you want us to add any other
22:29
way, Jacob? Yeah, I and no, I think you said
22:33
it perfectly. The other thing I would say is I
22:35
start doing both from the beginning and so that education
22:40
they're going to get that first second session with me, but
22:43
there were also going to do a body scan and start
22:45
understanding before we can even go to the motion.
22:48
If they're so numb, we'll just do, I'll help my clients just
22:51
understand how to do a body scan and just figure out what is
22:54
their body feeling? Are they feeling uncomfortable?
22:57
They could just use that. Are they feeling maybe back
23:00
pain? Are they feeling and help them
23:02
get in tune with their body. So when they're at work and
23:05
they're, I have a client that works at a factory, they're
23:09
actually getting in tune with how do things feel when I pick
23:11
them up, right? How is my body feeling?
23:14
And I'll do both of those within the first two sessions.
23:17
And so they're getting both, we're starting to go in their
23:20
body more and they've been so disconnected from their body.
23:23
Maybe we just need to start with, dude, how does your body
23:26
feel? What feelings arise even even if
23:30
we can't go to the emotion yet? Are you having some discomfort
23:33
in your legs? Is it hard to stand or do you
23:35
have back pain? How is your physical body
23:37
feeling? And I'll incorporate that into
23:40
the education around the behavior.
23:42
So they're getting both from the beginning because I think we
23:45
need both. Yeah, so important.
23:48
We need both guys. Ultimately, this conversation
23:51
today that we've had around C saps and not all therapists are
23:55
created equal, certified sexual addiction therapist, not all
23:58
created equal. The it's not about tearing down
24:01
therapist or saying one the better than another, but it's
24:03
about helping people understand that recovery is so deeply
24:07
personal and the quality of therapeutic relationship really
24:10
matters and a certification matters.
24:13
That training matters. The healing really requires that
24:16
emotional presence. It requires that growth, that
24:19
ability to help someone move beyond simply managing
24:23
behaviors, into becoming more honest and connected,
24:26
emotionally aware, and that relational safety really, really
24:30
matters. So if you're listening to this
24:33
and you've had therapy experiences that have left you
24:36
discouraged, don't automatically assume recovery doesn't work.
24:40
It may mean that you haven't found the right fit yet.
24:42
Be persistent. Be eager in the because the
24:45
right therapist won't just help you stop acting out to help you
24:50
understand yourself. You'll be able to help you be
24:52
able to tolerate vulnerability and build intimacy and develop
24:56
that integrity. And that's actually the person
24:58
that you're trying to be. So just ask that question, be
25:01
curious, pay attention, and don't give up.
25:04
Any closing thoughts here? The the only closing thought I
25:08
would have Luke to that because it was so he said it so well is
25:11
just there is hope to find a therapist that's going to
25:14
customize it to to your treatment instead of here's the
25:18
plan and that we're doing this regardless of what you're going
25:21
through, regardless of what you need, right, being able to find
25:24
a therapist that's going to customize it to what are the
25:27
needs that right. What do you actually need and
25:31
viewing you and listening to see what how am I going to get this
25:35
person from point A to point B instead of this is the program
25:38
and I'm we're just going to do with everyone the exact same
25:40
way. That's it, That's it.
25:43
OK, well Jacob, it's good to have you here.
25:46
I know we're going to have you in the future in these podcast
25:49
at least we want you to be here in the future.
25:51
But you can go to the choose recovery services.com and see
25:55
Jacob's profile. Not trying to pitch him right
25:58
now, but you can. We would have brought all if we
26:00
didn't know what he was doing, but he's very skilled.
26:03
Thanks for blessing those people that you're serving with your
26:06
skill set, Jacob. And the best thing about one of
26:09
the best things about yours and we didn't really get into is you
26:13
know what this looks like, you've been through this journey
26:15
before. You know what it looks and feels
26:17
like, which is amazing. And that's the kind of people
26:18
choose recovery services teams with is people, not just the
26:21
education, but people that have been through the struggle.
26:24
They know what it looks and feels like.
26:25
So anyway, thanks for blessing us with your time.
26:28
Yeah, it's been an honor to be here.
26:29
Thanks, Luke. If part of you keeps wondering,
26:36
should I come to this Courage to Thrive intensive, I want you to
26:39
listen to that question with compassion.
26:42
Because many women minimize their pain, they tell themselves
26:45
other people have it worse. Or I should be over this by now.
26:49
Or maybe I just need him to get better and then I'll be OK.
26:53
But the trail trauma impacts your mind, your body, your
26:56
nervous system, your sense of safety, your identity, and your
27:00
ability to trust yourself. And healing was never meant to
27:03
happen alone. Courage to Thrive is a space
27:06
where you can finally exhale, A space where you don't have to
27:10
explain why it hurts so deeply. A space where women around you
27:14
simply get it. You'll experience powerful
27:18
workshops, experiential healing activities, nervous system
27:21
support, connection, education, and practical tools that you can
27:26
take home with you. Most women leave saying I
27:29
finally don't feel crazy anymore.
27:31
And many also leave realizing that I matter too.
27:36
So if something inside you feels drawn to this experience, honor
27:39
that. That quiet voice inside you may
27:43
already know what you need. I hope you'll join us August
27:46
25th through 28th in Spanish Fork, UT.
27:55
Hi everyone. I am excited to tell you about a
27:58
new group that's coming to choose Recovery Services.
28:00
It's run by Luke Gordon and Scott Blundo, and it's called
28:05
Making Sense of His Behavior. This group is for women, $25 a
28:11
week to come and learn the why he does what he does.
28:16
They're going to dive into things like compulsive behavior,
28:20
secrecy, shame, emotional immaturity, what real recovery
28:25
and healing looks like, and also for you, how to find clarity and
28:30
stability. Again, the reason I love this so
28:33
much is when you start to understand the why at a deeper
28:37
level, it helps you not internalize those behaviors.
28:40
So it can be really freeing for you.
28:42
If this sounds like something that you would be interested in
28:45
or that you're needing, join us. Choose Recovery services.com.
28:55
Hey, thanks for joining us today.
28:57
If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
29:00
with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
29:02
chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
29:06
what we can do is set up a quick conversation with me.
29:09
Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
29:11
unmask the authentic self.