Latest / STOPTIME: Live in the Moment. / Michael Spiller: Stepping Outside of His Comfort Zone

Transcript

Michael Spiller: Stepping Outside of His Comfort Zone · STOPTIME: Live in the Moment.

• 0:23
  Lisa Hopkins: This is the stop time podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at.
• 0:47
  Lisa Hopkins: So my next guest was raised in Brooklyn, New York, and he followed a lifelong love of movies and television to SUNY Purchase, where he received a BFA in film. Working his way up on the onset crew ladder in New York City after graduation, he eventually led to a successful career as a cinematographer. He shot theatrical features episodic TV, documentaries, commercials and music videos all over the globe. After serving as dp on the first season of HBO sucks in the city. He launched his directing career in season two, and went on to direct seven episodes of the series before moving to LA in 2001. And hanging up his light meters to focus on directing full time. He continued to direct some of the most successful comedies on TV.
• 1:37
  Lisa Hopkins: His credits include more than 20 episodes each of modern family in scrubs as well as multiple episodes of Get ready superstar blackish mix mixed here's the new girl the middle Cougar Town, Bernie Mac, don't trust the B in Apartment 23 and Better Off Ted.
• 1:54
  Lisa Hopkins: His hour long work includes whiskey Cavalier, AJ and the Queen good girls Big Love and five episodes of Ugly Betty. He was the pilot and series main director for the ABC series Jake and Progress and Big Day and directed the pilot and executive produced champions with Mindy Kaling and Charlie grandi. He was the executive producer director on The Mindy Project for all six seasons, and directed 30 of the 116 episodes of the series in 2011, for his direction of the series Modern Family. He won both an Emmy and a DGA award for the Halloween episode and was nominated for a DGA award again in 2012 for the Express Christmas episode for the same series. He sits on the DGA creative rights committee consults on NBC female, forward and emerging director program.
• 2:46
  Lisa Hopkins: And he's on the Board of Governors for the Television Academy representing the directors peer group. He is also one of the founding members and principal instructors of DGA first time episodic directors classes. Post COVID. He has served as executive producer, director on three shows all shooting in Vancouver, the first season of the Mighty Ducks game changers for Disney, or Disney plus the final 16 episodes of Firefly lane, my favorite for next Netflix and he launched so helped me Todd for CBS before finally returning home to LA. It is with pleasure that I introduce you all to Michael Spiller. Michael, welcome.
• 3:28
  Michael Spiller: Thank you, Lisa. It is it was very interesting hearing that read back I have lots of edits I want to make sure including my my reading of it, probably it was a cold read. So that was the best part of it.
• 3:42
  Lisa Hopkins: No, it's great.
• 3:42
  Lisa Hopkins: It's great to get to know you.
• 3:44
  Lisa Hopkins: And as we were saying pre show, like, you know, this came in a little bit late, but it was fun for me to sort of discover you in real time, which you know, I mean, we're called Stop Time Live in the moment. So gotta walk that talk. Right?
• 3:56
  Michael Spiller: Exactly. I don't want you to be over prepared.
• 3:59
  Lisa Hopkins: God forbid, God forbid, so many questions for you. You must do you love what you do.
• 4:04
  Michael Spiller: I do love what I do, I think you have to to do this work. I mean, my work is primarily on television and film set and has been for almost 40 years. And if you don't love it, you're probably not going to thrive. And you're not going to have a good time. And, you know, the secret for me is I would do most of this stuff for free.I'm really glad they pay me butI'm, I'm sort of the happiest when I'm working which is something I'm working on. Because you don't work all the time. And and the downtime is something that I'm looking at how I address that in my own life.
• 4:49
  Lisa Hopkins: Oh, that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing that. It's it's funny because well, let me let me challenge that a little bit. Just right off the top. Let's just jump in.
• 4:58
  Lisa Hopkins: Well, I'm curious because do you really believe that when you're not working, you're not working?
• 5:01
  Lisa Hopkins: Like you're a creative person, right?
• 5:06
  Michael Spiller: I am but I'm, I'm not necessarily like a great self generator of work. You know, there are many peers of mine who, when they're unemployed, they're out there working the global room taking meetings or developing stories or contacting writers and trying to build their own thing. And I've just never been graded that I enjoy it the few times that I've done that, and working with writers, I really do enjoy that on projects in development. But I don't, I'm just not great at generating that. So, you know, usually what happens is, I stress for a couple of weeks, and then I get a job, and I'm like, Oh, my God, wait, there's so many things I want to do, you know, around the house, or take a vacation with my wife or, you know, go out to dinner and all these other things. And, you know, I've fallen into that trap. I fell into that trap sort of early in my career, and it's been a process to try and get out of that.
• 6:44
  Lisa Hopkins: Yeah. And when you have a track record like yours, right, there's kind of a certain I don't know, self expectation, as well, as, you know, Can I do it again? What is it for you?
• 6:54
  Lisa Hopkins: What, what, what's prominent in your mindset? Is it? I should do it again, I need to do more, what's next? Or how the hell did I do that? Can I do it again?
• 7:01
  Lisa Hopkins: Right?
• 7:05
  Michael Spiller: Well, I mean, there's, there's some of all of those things and bouncing around in my head. You know, I think, like a lot of people in this line of work, I definitely wrestle with some degree of, you know, for lack of a better phrase, impostor syndrome. And, you know, just, I'm very self critical and insecure. And I generally don't project that on set. And when I'm on set, I'm not feeling that way. For the most part, but it's the downtimes when you know, that I'm never going to work again, creeps in or the, oh my god, I'm a fraud, and they found out, someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and say, I'm sorry, we need that. Bet me back. And, you know, it's, and I know, that's not true. You know, I know that you can't survive in this business for as long as I have. By, you know, by accident.
• 8:05
  Michael Spiller: So, you know, that that's part of the game that I play with myself, and allowing those fears to creep in, you know, can overtake common sense and, and historical, tangible references.
• 8:23
  Michael Spiller: So that's, you know, and that's something I talked to a lot of young people and up and coming directors about, too, is just, you know, what is your tolerance for uncertainty in your life, because you can have a very gradual success or, or no success, and then suddenly a big success, and then it drops off or anything in between. And, you know, there's a number there's, in almost every professional life in this line of work, you're going to experience a dry spell. And what you do during that time is very telling, and the better you can do it, the longer you'll survive.
• 9:05
  Lisa Hopkins: Well, it's interesting to it has been sort of the thrust of what we were told by our mentors. And it's interesting because the word survive keeps coming up, right, if you want to survive, if you want fame, fame caught, you know, and it's funny that we set ourselves up for these things.
• 9:21
  Lisa Hopkins: Because, yes, it is true. I mean, through discernment, we understand that. It's not steady, right? And all of that, but when we program our brains to think, thank God, I survived.
• 9:32
  Lisa Hopkins: You know, I mean, the other side of that is, how lucky am I that I've, you know, been able to make a living doing what I love to do not, you know, you know what I mean? That's a totally different mindset saying the same thing. But the the idea that you needed to survive. I mean, imagine surviving life without passion.
• 9:52
  Lisa Hopkins: I don't know, you know what, I mean, I'd be implied Yeah, using survive, I think, is something that might be useful to be shifted in our mindsets of about how we approach stuff. What do you think?
• 10:05
  Michael Spiller: No, I think so.
• 10:05
  Michael Spiller: I mean, I guess, survive might be a little strong and thrive. You know, post pandemic, the advice for what it's worth that I give my kids is, I tell them repeatedly. I honestly don't care. They're both in college. Just like I honestly don't care what you study, I just want you to find something you're passionate about, and do it, I don't care if you're gonna make a lot of money, I don't care if there's going to be three letters or anything after your name. Just find something you love to do.
• 10:41
  Michael Spiller: You know, it's that age old adage of, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And that is the way I feel, I know that I work very hard. But, you know, for better or worse, I am at my happiest.
• 10:53
  Michael Spiller: When I'm working, when I'm surrounded by, you know, every film crew all over the world I've ever worked with, are all are all flavors and the same, you know, variations like they're just there's a specific type of person that that loves this lifestyle. Yeah, this sort of uncertain transient, ever changing, never dull lifestyle.
• 11:23
  Michael Spiller: You know, there were like modern day carnies? I think some extent, and those are my people.
• 11:30
  Lisa Hopkins: Yeah. That's cool.
• 11:30
  Lisa Hopkins: There's a culture that you're speaking to, right, which, which is familiar, and exciting. And collaborative, right? So when you jump in, you know that those are going to be elements that exist, no matter what the project, right, no matter what story you're telling, and it's not, if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like that aspect is key to why you keep doing it again, again, because at least you know, the baseline, right, whether it fails doesn't fail or whatever, you're gonna get that right.
• 11:59
  Michael Spiller: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's things that are consistent on every project.
• 12:02
  Michael Spiller: Yeah, you know, to some degree, you know, you're telling a story, and there's going to be different people involved to have certain responsibilities, and you know, how you choose to interact with them, and how you present yourself. And, you know, particularly in television, you know, some speaking of big generalities. And in the world of episodic television, the role of the director is quite different than many other arenas, you know, feature films or a play or something like that. It's like the directors has a different role. So the director of really, an episodic television really needs to collaborate as a guest. And, you know, they need to be a leader and have some ideas. But they're also telling one chapter of an ongoing story that has many things established already. And the people that are there day in and day out, know, a lot more about the mechanics, the politics, the intricacies of the characters. Yeah, then you do.
• 13:09
  Michael Spiller: So if you've walked in expecting that, you know, everyone's just gonna listen to your brilliant approach to everything, and you're not going to involve them in the creative decisions, you're probably going to have a hard time. And coming from the crew side of the equation, I know that so well. And I think one thing that I can bring to a project, both as a guest director, and as a producing director on the show where I'm working with other directors, is a deep connection and respect and bond with the crew. So they know I've got their back. And I care about their input. And I want to hear their ideas. And when everyone is engaged that way, there are a few places more exciting, I think, because anything can happen. You know, it takes a lot of hearts and minds and ideas and visions, and healthy risks, to get the best out of everybody.
• 14:13
  Lisa Hopkins: Absolutely. Is that something that that you see as your role as a director to literally do that, to bring out the best in everybody to, to get to where you're going?
• 14:23
  Michael Spiller: Absolutely, I think, I think anyone who doesn't, you know, engage their collaborators. And not just to prove yet the writers, the cast, but everybody who's there, if you don't engage them, you're really shortchanging yourself and ultimately the project that doesn't mean that every single idea that's pitched is going to be a good one. It's comical on the shows that I'm on full time.
• 14:51
  Michael Spiller: You know, I say repeatedly, the only bad ideas but one to keep to yourself. I want to hear it.
• 15:00
  Michael Spiller: I tell I used to tell a story about early days starting out, you know, walking away from set a couple grips or electricians would be in front of me. And I hear them grumbling and shaking their heads and the most messed up shoot I've ever been on.
• 15:16
  Michael Spiller: These people are so stupid. Why don't they just do this? And that always stuck with me. Just like well, they don't do that because a you didn't feel like it was okay for you to raise your hand say, Hey, I have an idea. Or this would go a lot smoother if you producers would spend some money on this, this or that, or any number of other things that they might have. But the culture didn't exist, they weren't encouraged to do that.
• 15:43
  Michael Spiller: So once I was in a position where I could influence decisions that were made going forward, I pull everybody and I say, what can we be doing better? From where you're, you're pushing the dolly? What do you see? Every day? That, you know, because you're looking at things in sort of a narrow scope, you have a hyper focus on? What are you seeing that I'm not that we can do? And that will make your life easier, more efficient, you know, whatever, because all of that will show up on screen ultimately. Yeah,
• 16:18
  Lisa Hopkins: totally. And it's really interesting, because, as a coach, we talked about the lenses you're looking for, right? But it's really interesting because with with lenses, and with what you're talking about, and perspective, a you come from, you know, the cinematography background. So you've, you've you have that perspective. So you bringing that to the table, right. And then as a director, it sounds like and a producer that you're really engaging, or people understanding that there's more than just the way I can steer the story, because there's all this information, right, from all all the people to create and CO create something new and different. I'm so curious to know what what was it that drew you to directing? Like, because it sounds like, you know, what did you say? He hung up his light meters and wet? Like, what was it that made you want to direct?
• 17:06
  Michael Spiller: Well, I mean, it's funny, I, towards the end of the first season of Sex in the City, my agent called me and said, if the show gets picked up for a second season, I'm going to make them give you an episode to direct. And I was like, Nah, I'm good. You know, I'm I comfortable? My Lane doing what I do and said, No, you're going to do it. Well, okay. So I was not chomping at the bit to do it by any. And that first episode.
• 17:41
  Michael Spiller: I also was the DP on the episode. So I don't recommend that for first time directors.
• 17:45
  Michael Spiller: The great part about it was, I mean, I definitely there was not a class like I teach now. I wish there was I would have saved me years of making mistakes and learning things in a different way. But I did feel like a bit like I was walking out on a tight rope blindfolded. But the entire cast and crew was below me going. We got you, Mike, we got you. So that was a wonderful feeling. And I you know, since then, I've been instrumental in giving many directors their first episode. And the you know, in fact, on The Mindy Project, I basically had the same conversation my agent had with me about the giving the DPS first episode, he's like, no, no, I really don't want. I said, you're going to do it, Marco.
• 18:41
  Michael Spiller: And he did a great job and directed seven or eight through the course of this series. So
• 18:45
  Lisa Hopkins: well. What do you think? Do you remember what it was? you're most afraid of? Like the thing that made you say, no, no, thanks.
• 18:53
  Michael Spiller: Well, I think historically, looking back on my career and the choices I've been faced with, you know, I spoke earlier about healthy creative risks. I tend and I, I started out working as a grip and electrician. And so every step of the way, I had to take a healthy creative risk and say, you know, what, I'm no longer going to be a Best Boy, I'm going to be a gaffer. So people call me for Best Boy work are not going to call me anymore, you know, and I'm going to lose work, but ultimately, it'll get me closer to shooting, which is what I want to do. So each one of those stages you take a risk, and this is not unique to me, as the risks got bigger, you know, as the steps got larger, it was I felt like there was more at stake. And, and, you know, my fear, my insecurity, my, you know, desire not to step out of my comfort zone was often very powerful. So, you know, to help my wife and my agent, my parents, and, you know, people who I trusted, you know, who thought that I could, you know, I was capable of it, I was talented, and why not? What's the worst that could happen? You know, I did do that every single time I did. It's worked out. So, you know, for anyone watching this or listening to this, who has that voice in their head telling them they shouldn't try something you know, I don't believe
• 20:27
  Lisa Hopkins: that's a great message. It's interesting too, I often say to my clients lose the trying, because trying implies again, that the idea that you could fail, just do it. Yeah. I mean, they just do it thing, the Nike or whatever. I mean, it's kind of true, right? Because trying does imply that there's, you know, a percentage of space in there that.
• 20:48
  Michael Spiller: And there's room for growth each time you do that, I mean, obviously, there's the possibility of growth. But there's, with my process has been that I've tried to consciously take action and have a plan for myself. Like when I started The Mindy Project, I was going to be an executive producer as my first time as an executive producer on the show.
• 21:15
  Michael Spiller: And I thought, I am not going to bluff my way through anything.
• 21:20
  Michael Spiller: If I don't know something, because I haven't done it before. I'm going to stop and say, I'm sorry. I haven't done 50 mixes? What? Can you just say that phrase again? Or just explain? Or what does that mean?
• 21:33
  Michael Spiller: I have the job, you know, it's like is worse to, you know, to bluff and think that Oh, my God, if I say something, you know, everyone's gonna know, I haven't done this before. And then you stumble through and maybe screw it up. And like, then people are saying, What the hell is wrong with this executive producer?
• 21:51
  Michael Spiller: Yeah, why does he know this is but if you say, I'm sorry, guys.
• 21:53
  Michael Spiller: Let's talk about this. Because this is new to me. Well, now you're being vulnerable, and you're involving other people and they're engaged in most people are very happy to explain what it is they do. Because it will make our subsequent future interactions that much smoother.
• 22:15
  Michael Spiller: So
• 22:16
  Lisa Hopkins: Well, yeah. And it's like, it's funny, it's funny, we call it it is vulnerable, because being honest, sometimes it's very vulnerable. But isn't it interesting that really, we're just being honest. Right? You were you're owning it. And I love that because, you know, as humans, and we were hardwired to do that, to protect ourselves from embarrassment, from, you know, from, you know, from a very young age, and we program ourselves that way, not only, you know, from our primitive ancient times, but from, you know, from when we were kids to, oh, better be careful, Michael, don't do that, you know, you might get hurt, you might scrape your knee. And it's true. You know, there was there were things that kept you safe. But there's a certain point at which I mean, I call it recasting your your Gremlin, right, literally, you know, rewriting the script and just saying, hey, not like, get it out of your head. I think a lot of us spend a lot of energy, saying, No, I'm not going to think like that. I'm going to think like this. And it's like this. Whereas it's like, no, no, come on, in. Thank you. You've served me in the past, you've been fabulous. It's an old story, though. We have a new story, and I could use your help. Could you help me do this?
• 23:21
  Lisa Hopkins: You know,
• 23:21
  Michael Spiller: that, that resonates with me. I mean, for sure. The sort of? Well, first of all, I'm just struck by the embarrassment thing, because embarrassment is one of these, it is one of the hidden, in my opinion, one of the hidden toxic emotions that particularly for men, that leads to so much other stuff, so much bluster and aggression, and, you know, shame and you know, just these terrible toxic states that people can work themselves into.
• 23:50
  Michael Spiller: And I, as I've gotten older, and more experienced, and done a lot of therapy, I've learned that, you know, I can laugh at myself, I don't need to be perfect. And if I do something wrong, or I ask a stupid question, quote, unquote, stupid question, or I suggest something that doesn't work, I don't need to be embarrassed if the space that I've hopefully helped create is safe for everyone to do that.
• 24:20
  Michael Spiller: And it's, in fact, an opportunity for me to lead by example, by making a fool of myself, again, I would put that in quotes, because, you know, the actors are probably taking the greatest risks of anybody, because, you know, they're so exposed, that they're, you know, they may try something, and if they personally don't like it, it may still wind up in the show. And that could feel terrible to them. So they're very, very vulnerable, and they need to feel safe. And as part of that, creating that larger safety zone on set, again, where everyone gets to say, I have a thought, or can I make a pitch?
• 25:00
  Michael Spiller: Or what do we think about this?
• 25:00
  Michael Spiller: You know, is this worth trying and you know, involving other people, because then, you know, great things can happen. If you're protecting yourself if you're censoring yourself if you're stifling your, your ideas, you're the thing that wells up that you have no control over that thought, that creative force or if you're stifling that. That's, I mean, that's a crime. Yeah. Yeah. When we were starting to go back to work, you know, I was doing a series in Canada in August 2020.
• 25:36
  Michael Spiller: No one had ever made a TV show under COVID conditions before.
• 25:42
  Michael Spiller: So even though many people have done it since then, and there are other people who were doing it simultaneously, it really felt like this was uncharted territory. And templates and methods of doing work had been that had been honed over 100 years, had to be reinvented. And I did think at the time and still argue that there was no one better suited to come up with a system for how to keep doing our jobs under COVID, than a film crew, I believe that we could do it. But there, there was an emotional component that wasn't really addressed, we were going to work every day, in a situation where it's quite possible that someone would get sick, I was like, the, I'm gonna do everything in my power to not be the person in charge up here, who let someone go home, and something devastated their family. So I spoke about that a lot. And I expressed my vulnerability and, you know, the stress and anxiety that I was feeling, and you know, how much their safety and well being meant to me, it was a really, really scary time. And, you know, and we all had to lace up our states and wear our masks and face shields and follow all the protocols. And, you know, put food on the table for our families, and create entertainment for the world, which was something that I think really helped us all I know, it helped me get through this time, it still does, I really felt like that was an opportunity where I could stretch my understanding of what my responsibility was, for my job, that it really included. The physical and emotional well being of, you know, 150 people that I was, I was leading,
• 27:58
  Lisa Hopkins: that's amazing. I just want to stop for a moment and celebrate you actually, for that, because if you know, just just getting to know you, I mean, based on that sort of identifying, you know, when you first started not feeling like you could tap into the skills, of even giving notes to somebody about a performance to to, you know, fast forward to 2020 to leading a team in, you know, literally on a you know, pioneering mission. Right?
• 28:24
  Lisa Hopkins: That's huge. That's really huge.
• 28:30
  Lisa Hopkins: Congratulations. I mean, they're very lucky to have you as a leader.
• 28:34
  Michael Spiller: Thank you. And it didn't go perfectly, but it went really, really well. And I learned a ton, and almost no one got sick. Yeah,
• 28:42
  Lisa Hopkins: that's amazing.
• 28:42
  Lisa Hopkins: That's amazing. What did you learn that you're going to take away with you and your leadership?
• 28:47
  Michael Spiller: Well, I think I learned I need to, I need to lean in harder to some of the things that still are less attractive or more scared me or I just rather avoid and, you know, it's one thing is tricky is that the job description of a producing director varies job to job. You know, I think I know what my strengths are. And I think I can get better at saying more of that upfront, which is tricky, because you're trying to get the job, when you're interviewing. You don't want to go in too hard. It's like, Well, I'm not gonna do this, I'm not gonna do this. But I'm really great at these things. But I think having clarity about what the least the initial expectations are and what the division of labor is going to be. And as part of what I love about it, again, is that I'm going to learn something. If I show up every day, with my eyes, my mind, my ears, and my heart open. And I'm willing, then I can learn something. And I can share something and people can learn from me as well. Yeah.
• 30:03
  Lisa Hopkins: And you cannot fail. I mean, I believe that if the goal is not to win, but to learn, we always learn. If we're open to it, then we cannot fail.
• 30:14
  Michael Spiller: I agree. It's sort of for me, I say it's a beginner's mindset. It's like, I don't know what I'm gonna experience today. I'm So I have some ideas. And I've maybe done things that are similar, but it is going to be different.
• 30:29
  Michael Spiller: Because this is right now. And, you know, to your point earlier about, you know, we don't know who's walking in with what, you know, what what's going on in their in our lives or, you know, external pressures that are impacting them. Yep. So there's a lot of wildcards
• 30:49
  Lisa Hopkins: for sure, for sure. And wouldn't it be so dull? If it was, if you if it was the same all the time? You wouldn't want to be doing it?
• 30:54
  Lisa Hopkins: Probably. Right?
• 30:56
  Michael Spiller: Well, I mean, that relates back to the way I prep for stuff. Prep is a hugely important part of my process, and it's evolved, I feel like to address some of my fears, and insecurities, over the years, I developed habits related to prep, that were meant to, you know, eliminate variables. And, and, you know, it's like, I had to know everything, by draw ladder diagrams, and blocking blocking diagrams and shot lists and things. And, you know, like, all we have to do is follow this roadmap, and then cut out the slates and string it together.
• 31:40
  Michael Spiller: And it'll be exactly how I want it. And that was a really limiting kind of approach. So I mean, I, over the years, I did, maybe a little less of that, or I did it, but my personal relationship to that work was one of, well, I've done this so that I'm prepared, and I can now ignore it, and be open to a better idea. Over more time, I found that, yeah, I was saying that, but I wasn't really doing that. I would try and guide everybody back to what may have been the very first idea I had when I started prepping that particular story. That doesn't mean it's my best idea. And it's also my idea, rather than, you know, opening up the process to everyone else's input. Often, there's, the actors are going to bring surprises, they're gonna have ideas, they are not phoning it in. They're not just, you know, rubber stamping it again.
• 32:47
  Michael Spiller: And if there's not room for that, there's gonna be conflict.
• 32:52
  Michael Spiller: Yeah. And if you're not nimble, flexible, and trusting, then you're gonna stumble? Yeah.
• 33:06
  Lisa Hopkins: It's funny, because I pay really big attention to the stories in my head, because that's the work I do, right. And, you know, there was a story threatening, which I completely dismissed, because I'm getting really good at going, that's just a story, then I don't believe it, which was that he didn't fit this before you sent your thing. He didn't fill out the form that we'll start going, Oh, he's probably too busy. He probably thinks it's a press junket, he probably doesn't even know why he's here.
• 33:29
  Lisa Hopkins: Why is even coming to be on the podcast, he probably doesn't want to talk about like, you know, so I wholeheartedly went through and just did whatever I do, you know, prepping for our interview and researching you and enjoying getting to know you a little bit. And then you sent the thing like, half an hour, and I just thought it was so giving, I was like, suddenly it was like he is sees the opposite of what my voice was telling me in my head. And had you not sent that you're the same person.
• 33:56
  Lisa Hopkins: Just because you sent it doesn't mean you're a different person, you just happen to be able to send it, I would have been going on the pretext for the short time that we're together in our scene together, that I will be a little defensive. You know, like, it's so funny, right? When we believe the stories in our head.
• 34:14
  Michael Spiller: Yeah, that is the sort of thing that that I I would have been right there with you had the rope in reverse. I would have spun a very elaborate story. Yeah. And gotten myself into that victim mindset. And, you know, she thinks she's doing me a favor, you know, all this sort of, like this nonsense.
• 34:34
  Michael Spiller: It's just like, why, but I am. I am sorry that I did. Oh, no, I didn't get it to you sooner because I hate that I created an opportunity for you to know yourself that story.
• 34:45
  Lisa Hopkins: It was it was perfect, because the story did not get very far. I mean, it was literally like, like a shredded script. And it did not last night. I said,
• 34:54
  Michael Spiller: Well, I mean, it's that fear of the unknown.
• 34:56
  Michael Spiller: You know, we tell ourselves a story going into it. Exactly.
• 35:00
  Michael Spiller: And, you know, as I said, Because I woke up in the middle the night I didn't sleep and yeah, you know, and I almost reached out and said, Can we find it another time? But I felt like I was in a good space and that maybe my guard would be down or the stories would be quieter, you know? And I could just show up and So far, so good.
• 35:29
  Lisa Hopkins: Oh, now she's gonna ask the big one now. Hey, so it's interesting way back, you mentioned and it was so funny because I felt that talk about synergy in that moment was as if you read my mind, because I was gonna ask you, what are your strengths? And as I was thinking, you said, I know my strengths, and you didn't tell me what they were. So I'm super curious, because it actually was a question of mine. What, you know, just put, you know, put humility to the side and like, what do you think? Are your unique strengths? Or what do you feel? Are your very different than thinking? What do you feel are your unique strengths?
• 36:05
  Michael Spiller: Yeah, I feel like the strengths I have are that I'm easy to get along with.
• 36:11
  Michael Spiller: I'm creative. I'm an optimist. I bring a lot of positivity to most situations, and certainly like onset, I love to collaborate. I truly respect the people that I'm working with, what do
• 36:36
  Lisa Hopkins: you think is your Achilles heel?
• 36:39
  Michael Spiller: Um, sensitivity can be a double edged sword. I think, you know, if you're sensitive and empathetic, I think that's only a good thing.
• 36:50
  Michael Spiller: But, you know, my feelings can be hurt. And, you know, I might retreat in certain situations.
• 37:02
  Michael Spiller: And, and, you know, I'm an imperfect human being. And, you know, I have that voice in my head telling me a story. And, you know, if the right combination of things happen, or I walk into something predisposed to it, it's possible that, that that will creep in and impact my performance. So, yeah, that's one thing. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's, I'm sure there's other stuff. But that's what's coming to me, ya
• 37:33
  Lisa Hopkins: know, for sure.
• 37:33
  Lisa Hopkins: Thank you for sharing that. I'm so curious to know how you as someone else, if someone else was, was directing the Michael spiller show or portraying you, what what is it that you hope that you're projecting to the world? I hear a lot of it, I hear the kindness, the empathy, the openness, the vulnerability?
• 37:50
  Lisa Hopkins: What's, what's at the backside of that? Like, what if, what if you weren't able we lost the script? What if you couldn't show up that way?
• 38:04
  Michael Spiller: Well, I think part of, you know, part of wanting to be liked. And I do want to be liked, and at times that that, you know, impacted me creatively, because I would not offer up my opinion of something. Because I thought, you know, I think subconsciously, I thought, if I agree with this person, or that person who's hired me, or is above me in the hierarchy, you know, they'll like me, or they'll want to keep me around.
• 38:37
  Michael Spiller: And I've now grown out of that, and I feel like the reason I'm hired is, is to express my true opinion, you know, in a, in a collaborative way, I'm shortchanging myself in the project if I don't do that, but I think, you know, looking back further, like, core character, early childhood stuff. You know, I grew up in Brooklyn. I moved there when I was five years old, right before first grade. And my parents were kind of hippie ish.
• 39:12
  Michael Spiller: And, you know, we moved from New Jersey, so everyone who could at that time, was leaving Brooklyn and going to New Jersey or Long Island, and we moved to Brooklyn, to a very Italian neighborhood. You know, the next 10 years were like, the first 20 minutes a Goodfellas. And, you know, I got my ass kicked a number of times, because I look different than my parents both work as only child, you know, in some ways, I kind of raised myself. I was sort of very independent from a very young age. You know, when I was 12, or 13, I began to sort of get tired of being an outsider and getting beat up. You sort of reinvent myself, like a parallel version of myself. I passed for Italian.
• 40:02
  Michael Spiller: I've since discovered through 23andme. There's a little bit of truth to that. But, you know, I would tell people that I was half the time my mother was Italian, and cultivated my Brooklyn accent and basically became a version of who I thought The world would accept, because I got the message very young, that if you knew the real me, you'd reject me, or you'd beat me up, or you'd ignore him.
• 40:34
  Michael Spiller: So, you know, it's been a lifelong process to understand that, correct that and adjust and recalibrate that. Recognize it and say, you know, as you said, that's, that was true then and at some level, that skill helped me survive. Again, these words survive. And I don't need to do that any longer. And I can be my authentic self. And I think people who've been with me on set, know that I can be, I can be loud, and exuberant, and command attention all in a fun, playful way. But I'm very shot.
• 41:28
  Michael Spiller: So I'm, you know, but I have social anxiety. You know, I don't, I don't like being a center of attention, I think not, you know, having this anxiety about people's names, like in social situations, like,
• 41:45
  Lisa Hopkins: it must be really interesting. In this context, especially, I mean, if I was a young filmmaker, or some wanting to be a director or something, and I met you, at one of these parties, that you probably didn't want to be out or whatever. That must be really bizarre for you, in a way. I mean, thank God, you're a giving person and you want to, just obviously, you're helping young, young people. But is that a strange experience for you to like, I mean, when they see all that you've done, they're just going to, like, target you.
• 42:16
  Lisa Hopkins: Right? going, Oh, I gotta have a conversation with that guy.
• 42:19
  Lisa Hopkins: Like, how does that feel for you? Is that is that a? It's kind of a paradox in a way, right? Because,
• 42:25
  Michael Spiller: I guess I mean, I do recognize it. And I mean, first of all, I won't lie to have anybody come up and say, like, they're a fan of your work, or, you know, even to this day, people come up to me and talk about movies I shot, you know, like, how Hartley films to change their life. And it's like, like, nothing's better than that. I could hear that all day long. And not, because it's like feeding my ego. It's just like, an actual human connection. You know, that helps me understand that. The work that I'm doing, I've devoted my life to mean something. You know, it's I struggle with that, like, 10 years, what have I done? Like, was that was crap mean? You know, it's like, they haven't touched anybody? Nope. I have, I've been a part of work that has been important and has caused people joy or an emotional reaction. And I'm proud of that. And it's valuable, and it's meaningful, and it's necessary. But when people come up, and you know, I can relate to the, Oh, I see, they might be nervous, or they're waiting, and they want to say hi. Like, I tried to just be as welcoming as possible. I mean, obviously, situations can vary, but if it's a mixer, or some sort of event, you know, TV Academy, or Directors Guild or something like that, where that's the whole purpose of it.
• 43:52
  Michael Spiller: I mean, I'm, I'm an open book, and I give people my email address, phone number, and let's continue this conversation. And it's, you know, maybe one of these days, I wanted to teaching, you know, full time or something like that, but it is something I really love, because I love talking about the work, I love talking about my process, I love trying to help foster and nourish a different kind of environment on set and a different kind of mindset. You know, the days of people screaming and yelling and treating each other poorly, you know, on every level, have to be ending. Those have to it's not, there's just no reason for it.
• 44:40
  Michael Spiller: And that there never was, but it was, you know, the environment I grew up in professionally was very, very different than it is today. And I'm quite grateful for that. And I've played whatever small role in that, but I can continue to and also I feed off their energy and enthusiasm and excitement then they re inspire me, and hopefully, whatever nuggets I share can inspire them and so, yeah, but I, I can I can recognize that you know, the shoe being on the other foot and that instance is there is a An irony to that.
• 45:25
  Lisa Hopkins: Totally. Yeah, no, totally. What's one one highlight and one low light of your career so far? Is there one that like really stands out as a highlight one that stands out as a low light?
• 45:34
  Michael Spiller: I mean, the sort of big highlight of, of winning and MB was, you know, is an obvious answer. And yet, it's still, it was hard to beat that moment. I mean, that was truly incredible. That was a cliched highlight. But that was a highlight something
• 46:01
  Lisa Hopkins: cliched about it.
• 46:01
  Lisa Hopkins: And if it happens, it's like when people say, you know, it's not bragging if you did it, right. I mean, you won the Emmy.
• 46:06
  Lisa Hopkins: On it, man. Good for you. Yeah.
• 46:13
  Lisa Hopkins: Yeah. I love it.
• 46:16
  Michael Spiller: And then yeah, I mean, lowlights. I've been let go on jobs twice, in my career, and, you know, is really painful. In each instance, I was able to really look at it and examine like, Okay, I first of all, I'm entitled to feel sad and confused or angry, and, you know, all the any emotion I feel I didn't try and talk myself out of. And I thought this is a chance to, like, not replay in my head every moment and give it weight or import that wasn't there and think, oh, that's the thing that did it, you know, that was the thing that broke the camel's back, or, but to look at my role in it, and just, you know, honestly, and, and also consult with people who were present, and say, you know, were there things that I missed?
• 47:21
  Michael Spiller: Were there things that I could have done better? You know, how can I learn from this? And, you know, in both instances, it wasn't like I did one thing that caused it, you know, there's an alchemy and a chemistry to all the different moving parts and offense like, well, you can't fire the director, you know, when the, you know, some will fire the DP, you know, or can't rearrange the whole writing room, you know, this stage of the game, let's, you know, swap out the producing director, and maybe that will address stuff.
• 47:59
  Michael Spiller: So, there's a lot of those factors. And, you know, because I'm not paying myself as a victim, there were things that I could have done differently, that maybe would have, you know, change the outcome. Yeah.
• 48:21
  Lisa Hopkins: But you chose what you thought was best in the moment. And I really believe that I believe that we all do the very best we can in any given moment. And that has to do with what we're talking about what access you have, to what lenses to what choices and sometimes, you know, and within whatever Lens we're looking through, we make the best choice. We're the other lenses there. Yes. Did you have access?
• 48:44
  Lisa Hopkins: Probably not. Right. So so it's so there's no sort of, and I love that and lessons learned 100% from everything and gifts to be gained? You know, but I bet you could probably, if we had another hour together, you could probably carve out, you know, gosh, you know, had that not happen? Yes, I would have not only would I not have learned this, but also, you know, there's all sorts of things. Dominoes, right? It's,
• 49:11
  Michael Spiller: I'm glad you brought that up, because it is something that I remind myself of, and I, when I talk to my kids about this stuff, you know, because they're, they're still in school, medical. Everything's looming ahead, what are what are my options going to be? And it's like, you know, one decision one job, one, you know, I don't know, aside your place somewhere as an internship, or something's like any of those things can just change the complete direction of your life. And, you know, I know that I'm sitting here talking to you, at this moment, because of every decision, and every action I've taken my entire life. So if any one of those if anything had been done differently, I wouldn't be here in this moment speaking to you. So, you know, we're where we are, because of all the choices and actions and behaviors and things that we've done good and bad, you know, in quotes throughout our lives, so.
• 50:17
  Lisa Hopkins: Yep. 100% What value were you honoring? Because you said you weren't feeling well? All today, but that you decided to come anyways. And part of it, you explained was because well actually, this might be good because vulnerability is important to me. I know that's important to you. And I'm feeling a little bit vulnerable, a little bit rough around the edges because I didn't get my sleep. Talk to me a little bit about why you showed up today, what value you were honoring?
• 50:41
  Michael Spiller: Well, I try to be someone who will honor their commitments. You know, I made a commitment to show up today and you set aside time and you sent me stuff and that, you know, you kept up your end of it. So I needed to, and I think I've done okay, I'm not as tired as I should be. I haven't coughed continually throughout, which is good to hear amazing. Yeah, so I mean, commitment. Commitment means a lot to me. And, like any human, I have not done that perfectly. You know, I haven't, I haven't honored every commitment perfectly in my life, and, but I strive to, I strive to, to be the best version of myself. I can be every day. And I try to build routines and support structure for myself to help that and, you know, there are times I think, I don't want to just other people have to do this stuff for they just, again, this sort of comparing and you know, just imagining what other people do or don't do. And so I don't dwell on that, because that, that will lead me to feeling like I'm a victim. And, you know, I'm here, I'm doing okay, I'm still breathing. I've got a family that loves me, and I love them and got friends and many cats and, you know, and if, if things change, and you know, life takes an unexpected turn, I'll be okay. We'll figure it out.
• 52:26
  Lisa Hopkins: Yeah, totally.
• 52:26
  Lisa Hopkins: Totally. What do you know, will will stay true about you, no matter what happens.
• 52:37
  Michael Spiller: I know that my love of laughing will stay with me. Both sides of my family just love telling stories and love laughing and they're very, very different people. But it's, you know, telling a story is free.
• 52:56
  Michael Spiller: And you know, it's it's all we it's what I do for a living. And it's what humans have done. You know, since we began to communicate, you know, for many different reasons, and yeah, and when they get when they include laughter That's a good thing.
• 53:19
  Lisa Hopkins: I love it.
• 53:19
  Lisa Hopkins: Amazing. All right, we're gonna do I say what makes you and then I'll just say a word and then you can say what comes to mind.
• 53:28
  Lisa Hopkins: Alright, so what makes you hungry?
• 53:36
  Michael Spiller: Smelling
• 53:40
  Lisa Hopkins: what makes you sad?
• 53:42
  Michael Spiller: You want feeling lonely?
• 53:45
  Lisa Hopkins: What inspires you?
• 53:45
  Lisa Hopkins: People what frustrates you, people? What makes you laugh?
• 53:58
  Michael Spiller: People? So as for I love it. No, it's great.
• 54:02
  Michael Spiller: And my cats my cats make me laugh.
• 54:04
  Lisa Hopkins: What makes you angry?
• 54:06
  Michael Spiller: close minded.
• 54:06
  Michael Spiller: Hey, holes.
• 54:11
  Lisa Hopkins: Yeah. And finally, what makes you grateful?
• 54:16
  Lisa Hopkins: Everything what are the top three things that have happened so far today?
• 54:26
  Michael Spiller: The sun is shining. I showed up for this.
• 54:31
  Michael Spiller: And so far I don't have COVID today. I love it.
• 54:36
  Lisa Hopkins: What's something you really looking forward to both today? And then let's go meta and tell me in the future what you're looking forward to.
• 54:43
  Michael Spiller: I'm looking forward to what's next. For me professionally, I don't know where my next job is. There's some stuff that's sort of percolating. This is a it's been a bit of a stretch without work.
• 54:55
  Michael Spiller: So I'm enjoying being home and being with my wife and building a woodshop in my garage, which I really love. And I'm ready to get back on set and put it into practice. All the things that I've learned,
• 55:14
  Lisa Hopkins: Michael, I really I so appreciate you taking the time to be in the moment with me today.
• 55:19
  Michael Spiller: I really, really do. It's my pleasure. I got a lot out of it. as well, it's
• 55:23
  Lisa Hopkins: been great to get to know you and super excited for what's coming next. I've been speaking today with Michael spiller. Thanks for listening, stay safe and help everyone and remember to live in the moment.
• 55:33
  Lisa Hopkins: In music stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended and rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality.
• 55:47
  Lisa Hopkins: In the moment, I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening