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How will The EFF+ fix issues in 702 land? · Drive with John Perlman

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  Speaker 1: 702 Drive with John Perlman is brought to you by
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  Speaker 2: Drive your business forward with connectivity built for growth.
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  Speaker 3: Your community.
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  Speaker 2: Your concerns. Your voice.
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  Speaker 1: Follow every moment of the local government elections on.
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  Speaker 3: 702 Cape Talk and EWN.co.za.
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  Speaker 1: 702 Drive, let's continue our daily look at different political
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  Speaker 1: parties and what they are offering the electorate.
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  Speaker 3: Today, it's the turn of the economic freedom fighters.
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  Speaker 1: And for that conversation, we're joined by Mpile Mautwe, who
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  Speaker 1: is treasurer general of the EFF and is also that
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  Speaker 1: party's mayoral candidate for Tuanne.
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  Speaker 2: Ms.
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  Speaker 3: Mautwe, welcome and thanks very much for giving us your time.
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  Speaker 2: Good afternoon, John. Good afternoon to the listeners of 702.
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  Speaker 1: Your manifesto promises that you'll do a whole range of things.
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  Speaker 1: And clearly from what you are giving by way of undertakings,
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  Speaker 1: money is going to have to be carefully managed and
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  Speaker 1: the funds of the municipality are going to be absolutely crucial.
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  Speaker 1: Which brings me to something on your municipalities. You're looking
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  Speaker 1: at jobs and SMMEs and you're saying, and I'll read
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  Speaker 1: it verbatim, Allocate a minimum of 80% of municipal procurement
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  Speaker 1: to local SMMEs, cooperatives, and township enterprises involved in manufacturing-related
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  Speaker 1: economic activities. In delivering that 80%, will those entities have
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  Speaker 1: to actually make things themselves? Or could they, for example,
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  Speaker 1: earn a way into the municipal budget by simply procuring
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  Speaker 1: goods for you?
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  Speaker 2: No, thank you very much, John. So in essence, what
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  Speaker 2: we are saying is that not only here in Tuania,
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  Speaker 2: but the entire country, we need to stop being consumers
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  Speaker 2: of goods and we must start being producers of goods
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  Speaker 2: and services to our people. And that is what is
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  Speaker 2: going to grow the economy of this country. A majority
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  Speaker 2: of our things, we buy them. We don't make them.
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  Speaker 2: So we are saying when the budget has been allocated,
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  Speaker 2: let's have a significant portion of it being used for
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  Speaker 2: capital and expenditure, which is going to be creating jobs
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  Speaker 2: for our people. So let's invest in revenue generating projects
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  Speaker 2: so that we then deal with a variety of issues. John,
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  Speaker 2: what is prevalent in most of the municipalities is is
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  Speaker 2: the crime. So the crime is very high in municipalities,
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  Speaker 2: which obviously leads to the high crime in the country
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  Speaker 2: as a whole. But when you look at what actually
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  Speaker 2: causes the crime is the social economic conditions of our people.
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  Speaker 3: But if I can come back to.
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  Speaker 2: Inequality, there's high levels of inequality, there's high levels of poverty.
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  Speaker 2: So for you to address these three issues, you need
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  Speaker 2: to create jobs for our people. So let's have a
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  Speaker 2: municipality that is able to create jobs so that it
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  Speaker 2: can generate its own revenue and it's then able to
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  Speaker 2: fund more of the needs of that specific municipality. So
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  Speaker 2: we are not for... SMM is coming to buy on
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  Speaker 2: behalf of the municipality. We are for creating state capacity
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  Speaker 2: that is able to then render services to our people.
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  Speaker 2: Municipalities are at the forefront of service delivery. And the
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  Speaker 2: reason why most of them.
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  Speaker 1: But let me jump in and try and understand this
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  Speaker 1: because you list this under procurement. Now, the only way
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  Speaker 1: I can understand procurement is the money you will spend 80%
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  Speaker 1: of the money you'll spend on the things the municipality
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  Speaker 1: needs will be spent in the small and medium SMME
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  Speaker 1: space and particularly focusing on townships or if you're in
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  Speaker 1: a rural municipality, there may be a slightly different mix. Now,
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  Speaker 1: if you're going to, for example, buy all the stationery
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  Speaker 1: that you need, which will be a line item in
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  Speaker 1: your budget, if you're going to do that in a
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  Speaker 1: cost-effective way, How can you be sure that you will
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  Speaker 1: be able to do that in a cost-effective way if
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  Speaker 1: you're actually using this to create jobs? Because your budget
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  Speaker 1: is a very ambitious one. Your spending plan calls for
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  Speaker 1: vast amounts of money on, for example, fixing the water systems.
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  Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand how you're going to do both.
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  Speaker 2: That's what you don't understand what I'm saying. What I'm
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  Speaker 2: saying is that we need a municipality that's got its
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  Speaker 2: own capacity. There's no need for you to have a
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  Speaker 2: middleman buying stationery for you. That's why we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: insourcing of work that is being done by a municipality.
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  Speaker 2: But the work, because you can't have a wholesale insourcing,
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  Speaker 2: that work that you're going to outsource, outsource it to
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  Speaker 2: the locals so that the locals can benefit. But issues
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  Speaker 2: like buying stationery, buying.
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  Speaker 3: Tissue, buying tea.
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  Speaker 2: Why would you get MPLA to do that on your
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  Speaker 2: behalf as a municipality when you can go buy that directly?
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  Speaker 2: Because there's no value add that MPLA is bringing.
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  Speaker 1: But then how will you meet your target of 80%
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  Speaker 1: procurement if you're buying all the stuff yourself? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: either you're buying it from township SMMEs or you're not.
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  Speaker 1: And if you are, because that's what your manifesto says
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  Speaker 1: you're going to do, in the midst of all the
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  Speaker 1: other budget priorities you've set for yourself, How are you
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  Speaker 1: going to do that in a cost-effective way that allows
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  Speaker 1: you to have enough money to fix water treatment plants?
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  Speaker 2: So let's agree that you've got the OPEX budget and
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  Speaker 2: you've got the CAPEX budget. I think let's start with
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  Speaker 2: that agreement. And then once you and I are on
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  Speaker 2: the same page on that, we are saying you cut
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  Speaker 2: the middleman. You don't need a tenderer. You don't need
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  Speaker 2: a service provider who is going to walk to game
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  Speaker 2: on your behalf. To buy stationery at Game or at
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  Speaker 2: Macro or at any other shop, you do that directly
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  Speaker 2: with Game. And that's what we call creating your own
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  Speaker 2: capacity because at the moment, the people who are doing
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  Speaker 2: procurement are purely pushing paper. They push paper to go
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  Speaker 2: out on a tender, to get a tender, to come
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  Speaker 2: and supply them with whatever goods that they need. But
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  Speaker 2: you don't need that. We need to go out on
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  Speaker 2: tender on the work that you know that you don't
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  Speaker 2: have the skill internally to conduct or to provide that service.
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  Speaker 2: And even with that, we need to have timelines of
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  Speaker 2: saying how then are you going to, in the long run,
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  Speaker 2: if your service is a permanent service, If you are
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  Speaker 2: permanently going to give the people of Twaini water, why
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  Speaker 2: then are you outsourcing it to the water tanker?
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  Speaker 3: So, Ms. Mawotwe, let me move on to something that
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  Speaker 3: I think is related.
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  Speaker 1: At the beginning of your manifesto, you list the successes
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  Speaker 1: of 10 years of EFF involvement in local government countrywide.
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  Speaker 1: And one of the things you then go on to say,
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  Speaker 1: because part of your manifesto talks about what's going wrong
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  Speaker 1: and what needs fixing. And I'll read this section and
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  Speaker 1: then put my question. publish all tenders, awards, and contracts,
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  Speaker 1: enforce strict consequences for corruption, and blacklist companies and individuals
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  Speaker 1: found guilty of wrongdoing. In the 29 instances you list
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  Speaker 1: of EFF successes in dealing with and driving towards better
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  Speaker 1: run municipalities, there's no example at all of you contributing
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  Speaker 1: to the blacklisting of companies and individuals found guilty of wrongdoing,
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  Speaker 1: which I'm sure you must agree is rife.
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  Speaker 3: In municipalities everywhere.
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  Speaker 1: Is that because you haven't successfully managed to do that
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  Speaker 1: in the municipalities.
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  Speaker 3: Where you are?
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  Speaker 2: No. It's because we are not running municipalities. We are
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  Speaker 2: in collision in some municipalities and we are running departments.
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  Speaker 2: But we don't have a single municipality that we are
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  Speaker 2: running completely on our own because we have not yet
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  Speaker 2: won outright majority in that municipality. But What we are saying,
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  Speaker 2: should we win outright majority, that is exactly what we
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  Speaker 2: are going to do. Because corruption cannot be shielded. People
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  Speaker 2: must take accountability. There must be consequence management. We can't
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  Speaker 2: keep on complaining about Oomphile doing wrong things and we
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  Speaker 2: still continue our in the same tenders to the same
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  Speaker 2: person who has been found in the wrong.
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  Speaker 1: But I must ask you, if you were able to
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  Speaker 1: achieve all these other things which you list while being
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  Speaker 1: in coalitions, why have you not managed to blacklist anyone
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  Speaker 1: and contribute to that process?
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  Speaker 2: But I'm saying in the departments that we run, there
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  Speaker 2: hasn't been any company that has done wrong things that
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  Speaker 2: needs to be blacklisted. So our scope is very small, John.
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  Speaker 2: So maybe if we expand our scope, we take the
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  Speaker 2: entire municipality. I mean, look at Twani for an example.
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  Speaker 2: We've got only two departments. We've got only two MMCs
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  Speaker 2: out of the 10 MMCs. MMCs of health, MMCs of waste.
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  Speaker 2: You go to Jovec, only two again, health and safety.
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  Speaker 2: So in the departments that they are running, there hasn't
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  Speaker 2: been that case of us going to an extent of
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  Speaker 2: even blacklisting.
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  Speaker 3: You're extraordinarily lucky, wouldn't you say?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, given the extent to which there have been
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  Speaker 1: companies that deserve blacklisting, it's a great fortune that the
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  Speaker 1: EFF has never encountered a company like that in a
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  Speaker 1: unit you've run.
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  Speaker 2: If you know of anyone that is in our department
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  Speaker 2: that should have been registered, bring it forward and we'll
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  Speaker 2: show you what we're talking about.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: But we haven't. Remember, we have not even been in
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  Speaker 2: this coalition for a long time. I mean, 20. I
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  Speaker 2: think it's about only two years of having the MMCs.
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  Speaker 2: So we have not yet. encounter that situation but john
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  Speaker 2: i'm saying to you and the listeners of 702 yes
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  Speaker 2: should you have knowledge of such a company that falls
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  Speaker 2: within that criteria that should have been blacklisted please by
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  Speaker 2: all means refer it and it will be blacklisted.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah we'll certainly do that um transport is something that
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  Speaker 1: you focus uh on and i know this isn't a
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  Speaker 1: counting issue but but i think it's It is interesting
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  Speaker 1: that you say you will secure the urgent re-graveling of
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  Speaker 1: the R524 from Luitrichat Makado to the Pundemaria Gate of
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  Speaker 1: the Kruger National Park. You also talk about how you
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  Speaker 1: will upgrade all local police stations. Are these not areas
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  Speaker 1: where you would need to be able to get either
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  Speaker 1: national or provincial government or both to actually deliver on
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  Speaker 1: these things?
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  Speaker 2: So the roads, as an example, there are roads that
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  Speaker 2: belong to the municipalities. Right. There are roads that belong
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  Speaker 2: to the province, and there are roads that belong to nationals.
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  Speaker 2: So the roads within our scope, the portholes within our
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  Speaker 2: scope of municipality, whether it's in rural municipality, like we
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  Speaker 2: just said Toyando now, or it's here in Tuani, those
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  Speaker 2: roads are clearly marked that this one is the road
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  Speaker 2: belonging to the city or to the municipality or to province.
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  Speaker 2: Those are the roles that we say we're going to
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  Speaker 2: make sure that they are taught. Because there's just no
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  Speaker 2: reason why they are not.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, here in Gauteng is an example. Gauteng is
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  Speaker 2: the capital, the administrative capital of South Africa. So why would,
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  Speaker 2: and you know that West here in Tuani where I am,
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  Speaker 2: Tuani is the second biggest city in in terms of
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  Speaker 2: housing for foreign nationals after Washington, D.C. So the world
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  Speaker 2: is here in Suwanee. And you don't want the world
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  Speaker 2: to see Suwanee that has got gravel roads, that when
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  Speaker 2: it's raining, our people are unable to commute. Ambulances are
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  Speaker 2: unable to reach our people. So you'd want the Suwanee
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  Speaker 2: that looks like Silver Lakes, the Suwanee that looks like
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  Speaker 2: mainland and water truth, even when it's in Hammerskram or
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  Speaker 2: it's in... Harangua or it's in Winterfeld or it's in Refugee,
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  Speaker 2: who are saying the same investment that gets given to
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  Speaker 2: affluent areas must also be given to our rural areas.
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  Speaker 2: It can't be done. Investment, majority of the part of
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  Speaker 2: the investment is only channeled into one direction and leaving
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  Speaker 2: our people out of such a development.
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  Speaker 1: I want to just end with this one, Ms.
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  Speaker 3: Mautwe.
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  Speaker 1: It's in the section where you deal with uh, social
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  Speaker 1: services and health. And you say, uh, we will enforce
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  Speaker 1: ambulance response time targets of a maximum of 20 minutes
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  Speaker 1: in urban areas. Um, That would depend hugely on the
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  Speaker 1: availability of sufficient and working ambulances. Given, and I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to ask you this question specifically about Tswane, because you
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  Speaker 1: are the mayoral candidate for that metro. What is the
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  Speaker 1: current shortage of ambulances, let me call them working and
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  Speaker 1: available ambulances in Tswane?
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  Speaker 3: And do you have an idea.
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  Speaker 1: Of what it would cost to bring it up to
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  Speaker 1: need if indeed there is a shortfall?
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  Speaker 2: There's a shortfall of everything related to health in Twani.
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  Speaker 2: Twani has got over 4 million people.
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  Speaker 3: But the ambulances, if we can focus on that.
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  Speaker 2: No, no, no. Don't wait. Twani has got over 4
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  Speaker 2: million people who are living here. Right. With only 24 clinics.
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  Speaker 2: So already you know we're in a crisis. Because out
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  Speaker 2: of 24 clinics, which don't even operate 24 hours, gets
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  Speaker 2: to service 4 million of our people. Now, you need
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  Speaker 2: to open up the operating hours of these clinics You
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  Speaker 2: need more ambulances, the same number of ambulances that will
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  Speaker 2: be able to cater for this 4 million people.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know what that number is? Because in your manifesto,
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  Speaker 1: you are undertaking a 20-minute response time in urban areas. So,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, presumably that would be something you've at least
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  Speaker 1: got an idea as to whether you can do it
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  Speaker 1: in the first year, the second year, I mean... presumably
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  Speaker 1: the capex spend would be substantial. I'm wondering if you've
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  Speaker 1: got at least an idea of how many ambulances are
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  Speaker 1: the shortfall.
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  Speaker 2: It will not be in the immediate, John, that you
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  Speaker 2: get all the ambulances at once. Like you said, the
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  Speaker 2: budget is a big problem. And we agree with you
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  Speaker 2: on that. Because if you look at the budget of Swami,
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  Speaker 2: out of the 55 billion, only 500, just over 500
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  Speaker 2: million is allocated to health. So there's just a number
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  Speaker 2: of problems that are increasing in Twan. One is the budget.
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  Speaker 2: Two is the current facilities that are not enough. That's
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  Speaker 2: why we get overwhelmed with just one section of Twan,
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  Speaker 2: which is Region 6. when it has got an outbreak
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  Speaker 2: of diarrhea. So you need a huge investment when it
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  Speaker 2: comes to health department, not only on ambulances, but even
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  Speaker 2: on operating hours, even on increasing the personnel, even bringing
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  Speaker 2: doctors to come and assist there. So an essential amount
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  Speaker 2: of money to go into the health department, obviously assisted
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  Speaker 2: by the province, because province also has got the clinics
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  Speaker 2: that they are running here in the city of Tonga,
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  Speaker 2: not only just hospitals.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 1: We'll have to leave it there with Mpile Mautwe, the
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  Speaker 1: EFF Twane Mayoral Candidate, currently Treasurer General of that party
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  Speaker 1: as well. If you want to check out their manifesto,
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  Speaker 1: you can find it on the EFF website. And do
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  Speaker 1: the same with all the other parties as you make
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  Speaker 1: up your mind.
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  Speaker 2: 702 Drive.