Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1017: Foundations - The Never Ending Quest for New Deer Ground

Transcript

Ep. 1017: Foundations - The Never Ending Quest for New Deer Ground · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: First Light, Go farther, stay Longer, and now your host,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundation's podcast,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: which is brought to you by First Light. I'm herrist
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Tony Peterson. In today's episode is a reality check on
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: a hunting property and how when we get complacent about
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: our spots, we sometimes end up having no place to
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: go about. As I walk through a chunk of woods
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that literally shape me as a deer hunter. When I
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: was younger and I watched my daughters just take in
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: the whole scene, I realized how lucky I have been
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: to maintain permission on that same farm for over thirty years.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: That doesn't happen very often, and it is a good
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: reminder to me to appreciate every place I can hunt,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: but also not take it for granted. That's what this
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: episode is about. And even if you think you have
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: everything locked down and will never have to knock on
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: another door again or look up for another lease, or
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe hunt public land. You should listen. The
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: odds are that you might be wrong, and you also
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: might not need to do any of these things right now,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: but you might find yourself wanting to anyway. If you
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: want to see a goofy looking trooper, look up a
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: fella named Bertolt Brecht, which is actually a shortened version
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: of his full name, which is a lot of German
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: names strung together that this fella with a bit too
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: much Finlander blood in him, is not going to try
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: to pronounce for you. Breckt was a German playwright who
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: was born in eighteen ninety eight and who I know
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: for a fact that none of you care about or
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: interested in, and to be fair, I'm not either. But
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: he said some interesting things. And one of his quotes
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: that I heard a long time ago and thought would
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: be one hell of a poignant thing to say to
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: set this podcast up, goes like this, because things are
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: the way they are, things will not stay the way
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: they are now. You could take an ambiguous quote like
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: that and apply it to anything. In this case, I'm
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: applying it to our hunting spots. I'm going to talk
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: about finding new spots later and how that has gone
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: for me in the last year. But I want to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: point something out before I get there. If you have
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: your spot, maybe you own land, maybe you have family land,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: whatever that may be, and you are very confident that
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you will have access to that land for a long time,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: that is great. But that doesn't mean the neighbor's land
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: will stay the same. That doesn't mean that you won't
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: have someone by the property that borders yours and decide
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: they want to shoot every deer they can. Maybe they
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: take out the best cover on their place because they
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: like the woods to look like they are groomed. And
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: so your deer that I always betted in that spot
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and come to your food blot when they get the
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: munchies don't anymore. Maybe you own land out of state
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: like I do, and the state decides, you know, one year,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: that you just can't get deer tags anymore, which hasn't
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: happened to me yet. But I live in low grade
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: fear of every single year things happen, land titles change hands.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Because things are the way they are, things will not
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: stay the way they are if you aren't at least
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: passively keeping an eye out for some extra ground rome
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that might catch up with you, and if you've been
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: living the good life for a long time, deer wise,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: it might not treat you very well to suddenly realize
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: that you have to figure things out again in a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: new spot. I have a buddy who is going through
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: that right now, and he's not having a great time.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: His family had owned a beautiful chunk of land think
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: just to shade, over four hundred acres here since the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, but his parents were getting old and facing
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: long term care. His siblings didn't view the land the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: way he does, and his sister got power of attorney
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: over their parents' finances and affairs. Guess who came calling
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: pretty quick after that. Developers That property dwindled down to
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: eighty acres in a matter of a few years. And
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: while he still has some deer and turkeys to hunt,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: almost all of them spend their days on bird feeders
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: in the backyards of million dollar homes. For forty some
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: years of his life he had amazing hunting. Now he
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: has something else, and that eighty acres isn't exactly sat
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: in stone anymore. Now the development has slowed down some,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: but that chunk will be sold and he knows it.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: He also doesn't really know what he's going to hunt,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and he's not exactly ready to go saddle up on
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: public land and compete against the rest of the hunters
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: out there. You see, looking for new places to hunt
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: isn't just something that is good for the obvious reasons.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: It conditions you to think about the prospect of change
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and what you would do to manage it. You probably
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: won't be able to see into the future and know
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: exactly how things would change, but you can bet that
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: they probably will think about it another way. Maybe this
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: is just biased thinking, but it often it feels like
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: change doesn't go in a positive direction with this kind
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: of stuff. Take that farm I mentioned in the intro.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: When I lose that, which is possible every year as
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the landowner gets older, I'm just not likely to replace it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: It's a thing of the past to have a huge
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: dairy farm to hunt simply from a phone call every March.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: The flow will go to smaller properties, probably with more
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: hunting pressure. Although I'm far from the only one on
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: that farm already, and I've always had to share it
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: with plenty of bow hunters and lots of gun hunters.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: But it's big and I can work with that to
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: get away from the weekend warriors and the folks who
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: mostly post up on the field edges. That's not the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: case on every property, and it's just how it goes.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Having more places to hunt is a good idea. When
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I talk about my hunting in northern Wisconsin to certain
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: types of white tail hunters, they assume that I only
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: ever hunt the private land that I have access to,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: but I mostly hunt the public up there because it
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: just allows me to hunt every wind and every type
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: of condition all season long, and it gives me the
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: options that I feel like I need. And don't get
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: me wrong, the private is great, and I feel real
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: lucky to have what I have, But I honestly wouldn't
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: want to be limited to just that. And that's the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: mindset that gets us into trouble because most hunters think
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: about hunting ground just like that, I hunt this farm,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: this is my lease, or this chunk of public land
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: is where I hunt, Yes, But what else? When you
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: are always in a state of activity looking for more ground,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: which is not easy to do when you don't need it,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: you are always thinking about your white tail life rafts
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: your main boat sinks, and that sucks, But you have
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: other options, but most folks don't seem to think that way,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and once the old hull gets breached and the water
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: starts rushing in, they have to piece something together that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: generally won't be as good, and by good, I mean
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: as easy as their original place. I think about this
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: a lot with traditional rifle camps here in the Upper
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: or Midwest. A lot of those folks hunt public land,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and a lot of them are fed up with a
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: wolf situation and either stop going or go up for
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: opening weekend and mostly play poker and throw down some
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: bush lattes. Look nothing wrong with that if that's your jam.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But I also hear a lot of bitching about the
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: deer situation. Then I think here in Minnesota, you have
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: to drive by an awful lot of public land with
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: plenty of deer on it to get to the true
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: North country, and that doesn't take into account heading west
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: in our state or down south where the deer numbers
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: are really good. It sucks to have to compete with wolves,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: but it's not like it's the only option on where
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to hunt. Most people don't really like going out of
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: their way in trying to find new areas to go
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to and most hunters won't even consider it when what
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: they are comfortable with goes away. A lot of them
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: just go away, and we are seeing that reflected in
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: firearms license sales in several states. That's a shame in
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: my opinion, and not really necessary. If you open yourself
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: up to the reality this stuff is fluid, and even
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: though you have to figure out some new stuff, you
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: might actually end up in a better spot, or at
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the very least, you won't have to give up hunting
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: because an old, reliable area suddenly becomes a deer desert.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So what do you do. Well, you look at your
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: life realistically, and then you factor in your time, your
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: willingness to go outside of your comfort zone, your money situation,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: and basically anything that might play into it. If you
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: happen to be a software engineer that hasn't been booted
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: out by AI yet and you make half a million
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: bucks a year, you have lots of options. The doors
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: will open for you at some point because you can
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: pay to open them. For a lot of folks, it's
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: not that simple. Buying land is an option, but not
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: for a hell of a lot of people. I will
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: say this about it. I bought three properties small properties
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen, when I wasn't exactly
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: rolling in the dough and it was penny pitching time,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: but the market was a buyer's market due to the
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: housing market crash in the aftermath. And boy, I'm really
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: happy that I did that. None of them good deer
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: properties in any real way, but they are all worth
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: hunting and provided me with a hell of a lot
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: of mental health benefits. Just knowing that you have some
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: place to go, even if it's not likely you'll ever
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: see a big one on it, let alone kill one
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: matters a whole lot. Now the only parcel I have
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: left is thirty acres, and I can tell you I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: love that chunk of ground. I'd have to get real desperate,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: which is you know, possible, before i'd sell it. But
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: knowing at the very least as long as I can
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: make my property tax payments every January, that I can
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: hunt with my daughters and at least have a little
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: chunk of timber to disappear into when I need it
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: is something that makes me very happy. I also know
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: what I paid for it eleven years ago and what
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: i'd have to pay now, and it's kind of hard
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: to wrap your head around land, like every single thing
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: we want or need in life has not gotten cheaper,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: and it won't the best deal you're likely to get
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: on that forty acres in a soso area that you'd
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: hunt if you absolutely have to, will look like an
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: absolute steal a decade from now. That's one of the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: big problems people have with thinking about buying land. They
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: want ideal, but they can't afford it. I don't know
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: how many people in my life have said they were
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: in the market for land that they just never ever
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: bought anything. But it's a lot getting your hands on
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: some acreage, even if it's mostly swamp or just not
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: that dreamy Southern I with deciduous forest and agg mix
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: is worth it. But again I understand that's not for everyone,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: and with how much everything costs these days, it's not
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: for most of us. Leases, you know, they might be
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a different story, and I don't think that's a bad move,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: but run the numbers. You might end up having to
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: pay the equivalent per year for a lease that you
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: would pay actually buying something outright, although the time commitment
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: to what you're paying will be vastly different. Paying to
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: play is a real viable way to get your hands
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: on some deer ground, and there are a pile of
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: services out there like base camp leasing and others that
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: can cut out most of the due diligence on the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: front end of the process. The key to leasing is
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to really understand what you're getting into. Are you going
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in solo or are you going to round up some buddies.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: How will that play out if onebody wants to still
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: hunt and shoot eighty five inchers when the rest of
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: you want to go hunt, stands and hold out for
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: one forties, even if you're all interested in letting them
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: go so they can grow. What if someone works from
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: home and can hunt three times as much as everyone else,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: be honest about where any bad blood could come from. Again,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: this is just my nature, but I look at stuff
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: like this like I'd rather have forty acres a lease
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: ground to myself than two hundred that might result in
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: lost friendships. Of course, there are more considerations than that.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: The landowner sets the rules and you better follow them.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: You know, generally, when you can hunt, what you can hunt,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: how you can hunt, and who you can hunt with
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: are all going to come up before the agreement is signed.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: It's the name of the game. But it is a
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: viable way to have some quality ground to hunt, and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: it's a good way for landowners to extract some money
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: from one of their assets. Buying and leasing are great
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: for folks who have the money and the desire, but
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of hunters don't, and that leaves permission based
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: options in public land, the former being much more desired
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: by almost everyone. It is very common to hear hunters
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: gripe that you can't get permission to hunt by a
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: door knock now, and while cold calling landowners by walking
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: up to their front door isn't as fruitful as it
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: was thirty years ago, it is still possible. I have
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: a co worker here at Meat Eater who is definitely
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: not afraid to knock on doors, and he gets permission
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: in places you just wouldn't expect that's an option. But
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: most of the hunting ground I've gained access to in
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the last ten years has come from just somehow getting
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: on the topic of it was someone in my life.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: The spot I killed my last two Minnesota bucks is
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: a twenty five acre piece owned by one of my
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: daughter's friend's dads. He killed his first buck ever out
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: of one of my stands this year, and overall, that
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: little property has been a low key life saver for me.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Now I supply all the stands and the scouting and
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the general direction of the hunts, but he owns the
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: place and that's a real important part. There are rules
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to follow there, but the truth is it was just
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a networking thing that worked out for both of us.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You'd be surprised who might let you hunt their place,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: but it's usually something that you have to approach softly.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: If you find out someone in your circle has land
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and you immediately asked, like all you want to do
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: is kill one seventies out of box b Linds, you're
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: going to get shut down. Most people who aren't a
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: hard no right out of the gate want you to
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: earn their trust. Most of the time. For me, that
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: starts with turkey hunting or maybe a little shed hunting.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Then it morphs into maybe taking my kids deer hunting,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and eventually permission for me. But I still have places
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: where I can't shoot bucks, but the dos and the
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: turkeys are open season. That's how it goes. But one
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: of the landowners who won't let me shoot bucks gave
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: my daughters the green light to shoot bucks this past season,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and in one three day stretch last October, they killed
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: a four ky and a two year old eight pointer.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: And I can tell you we talk about those hunts
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: a lot. They mean a lot to my daughters, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: they were made possible by a friendly landowner who I
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: took turkey hunting a decade ago, back when he wouldn't
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: let me to hunt there at all. Pay attention to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: your network, to conversations, and you might turn something up.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: But of course y'all also have public as an option.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And I promise you that if you're scared of hunting
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: public land or believe it won't be any good, you're
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: probably wrong. It won't be easy, but it can give
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: you something meaningful deer wise, and honestly, hunting isn't supposed
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to be easy, not always and not in every way.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: And honestly, if you think that public land isn't worth it,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: ask yourself what you know about the public land that
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: is in a part of your state that you don't
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: hunt or frequent where I live with four million people
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: in my backyard, I just say that public is generally
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: pretty tough. But when I drive a couple hours to
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the western part of my state. The public land is
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: full of deer. Even though it's still not easy. What
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: we think we know about everywhere, we often only know
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: about a small region, and even then we're probably wrong.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: The key is don't get apathetic with your hunting spots.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: You don't know what the future will hold, but it'll
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: hold some type of change, and that change is just
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: as likely to be a negative as it is a positive. Now.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: While you might not need a life raft spot right
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: now or even in the next five years, if you
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: do ever know and you haven't done anything to facilitate it,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you're in trouble. This is a hard thing to convince
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: people of until it's too late. Now. I don't want
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: to fear monger too much, but I believe that to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: be true, just as I believe the process of looking
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: for new ground and then learning something about new ground
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: will make you better at hunting your old ground. There
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: really isn't a downside to trying to find a few
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: backup spots, and there isn't a better time of year
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to do this than right now. So do that and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: then come back next week, where I'm going to talk
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: about something that I honestly think is the most overlooked
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and valuable thing a white tail hunter can do. That's
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: it for this episode. I'm Tony Peterson and this has
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: been the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast, which is brought
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to you by a First Light. We're still stuck in
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: this stupid ass month of March where there isn't a
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: whole lot going on for a lot of us. So
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: maybe you need something to do. Go to the meat
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: eater dot com. Check out all of the new content
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: we drop. We're dropping new films, we are dropping tons
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: of articles, lots of news out there in the outdoor space, podcasts,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: you name it. Tons of content there, education, entertainment, a
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: great mix of both. Go check it out at the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: mediator dot com and thank you for your support.