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What We’re Learning From Coaching Pitchers Every Day · The Mound Visit

0:00
Speaker 1: All right.
0:00
Speaker 2: We're back with another episode of the Mount visit podcast.
0:03
Speaker 1: Have my good friend and coworker Jackson Hicks on the
0:06
Speaker 1: call today. Jackson's been on this before. I can't remember
0:09
Speaker 1: when it was. It was probably two years ago now.
0:12
Speaker 2: 2024.
0:13
Speaker 3: I think sometime around then.
0:15
Speaker 1: Yep. So for those of you that don't know Jackson,
0:18
Speaker 1: I coached him in the twins organization. And then he
0:22
Speaker 1: just retired from playing this summer and has since been
0:25
Speaker 1: working for us at pitching coach you in Phoenix.
0:28
Speaker 2: And, It's been a ton of fun.
0:29
Speaker 1: I've been learning a lot from him and it's been
0:30
Speaker 1: good to see the transition from you as a player
0:34
Speaker 1: and coaching you to now coaching alongside you. But what's
0:36
Speaker 1: kind of been the transition like for you going from
0:38
Speaker 1: player to coach?
0:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been fun.
0:41
Speaker 4: I think the transition was made easier by the fact
0:45
Speaker 4: that I was very bad this season. So it was
0:48
Speaker 4: abundantly clear that it was time to hang up the cleats.
0:51
Speaker 4: There's no like second thoughts of, oh man, maybe I
0:54
Speaker 4: should give it one more year and like maybe I'm
0:58
Speaker 4: one tweak away from getting back to affiliate ball or
1:00
Speaker 4: the big leagues.
1:00
Speaker 3: There's no thought of that at all.
1:03
Speaker 4: And even this spring, I was having a lot more
1:06
Speaker 4: fun kind of being a de facto coach for the
1:09
Speaker 4: team that I was playing on.
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Speaker 3: I was playing in the.
1:10
Speaker 4: Frontier league and was the oldest guy in the bullpen
1:14
Speaker 4: with the most experience and had a lot of guys
1:17
Speaker 4: where it was their first pro experience first time or
1:20
Speaker 4: first time being in the bullpen as lifelong starters. And yeah,
1:24
Speaker 4: I realized pretty quickly I was having way more fun
1:27
Speaker 4: kind of coaching them and helping them figure out their
1:29
Speaker 4: routines or working on pitch shapes or understanding what sequences
1:34
Speaker 4: they needed to use than I was actually hearing my
1:37
Speaker 4: name called and going out into the game. So that
1:39
Speaker 4: was definitely a sign that it was time to make
1:43
Speaker 4: the transition. And I'd always known that I wanted to
1:46
Speaker 4: get into coaching when I was done playing, spent all
1:49
Speaker 4: my off seasons giving lessons and coaching travel ball teams
1:52
Speaker 4: in wherever city I was living at the time. So
1:55
Speaker 4: pretty much once I made the decision to retire, Jared
1:58
Speaker 4: was the first person I texted and asked if he
2:01
Speaker 4: needed some help at pitching coach you and made a
2:05
Speaker 4: pretty quick transition. It's been awesome to kind of see
2:07
Speaker 4: the other side of the game and just been learning
2:11
Speaker 4: a lot from you and seeing a lot. And it's
2:13
Speaker 4: been a lot of fun so far.
2:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely could see you being a coach when
2:18
Speaker 1: I first started working with you.
2:19
Speaker 2: Like you were always the guy that was.
2:21
Speaker 1: Putting in the extra work, asking more questions than most
2:25
Speaker 1: players would in post-game meetings, right?
2:27
Speaker 2: Sometimes we had.
2:28
Speaker 1: To pull it back a little bit, make sure that
2:30
Speaker 1: we weren't getting in the Superdome or over analyzing, overthinking,
2:34
Speaker 1: but those are traits that can be good as a coach, right?
2:36
Speaker 1: Because as a coach, like we have to be processing
2:39
Speaker 1: all these different things and hopefully simplify that for the
2:41
Speaker 1: player to make it as digestible and as easy as
2:45
Speaker 1: we can for the player. So like It doesn't surprise
2:47
Speaker 1: me one bit that you've become a coach and have
2:49
Speaker 1: already excelled in the short amount of time that you've
2:51
Speaker 1: been doing it. But now that you are on this
2:54
Speaker 1: side and you've been able to work with pretty much
2:56
Speaker 1: every level of player already, a pitching coach, you from
2:59
Speaker 1: middle school kids to high school, college.
3:01
Speaker 2: And now that the offseason for the.
3:03
Speaker 1: Pros is starting, you're starting to work with some of
3:05
Speaker 1: our pro guys, high school and middle school for that matter.
3:08
Speaker 1: But high school specifically, I think there's so many struggles
3:12
Speaker 1: if you want to call it that that we have
3:13
Speaker 1: to deal with and anybody that works in a private
3:15
Speaker 1: facility has to deal with because we're juggling so many
3:18
Speaker 1: different things from their club team to their school team
3:22
Speaker 1: to kids just deciding not to show up for a
3:24
Speaker 1: week or whatever it might be like what have you
3:27
Speaker 1: found to be you know maybe some of the bigger
3:30
Speaker 1: struggles on the training side and just the transition from
3:33
Speaker 1: working with pro or not working with pro guys but
3:35
Speaker 1: being in pro ball we're like this is our job
3:36
Speaker 1: and this is what we do day in and day
3:38
Speaker 1: out to high school kids that are kind of just
3:41
Speaker 1: trying to have fun in some cases and hopefully make
3:43
Speaker 1: their varsity baseball team.
3:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's definitely different.
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Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing is just, they spend so
3:50
Speaker 4: much time outside of the facility. Like even if a
3:52
Speaker 4: kid's coming in six days a week, we're seeing them
3:55
Speaker 4: for between 12 and 15 hours, depending on how much
3:58
Speaker 4: time they're spending in the facility. But that leaves so
4:01
Speaker 4: much time where they're at home or they're with their
4:04
Speaker 4: high school team. And I think that's been the hardest
4:07
Speaker 4: part is you've got, high school programs and not to
4:11
Speaker 4: name any names, but there's some high schools out here
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Speaker 4: that the weightlifting program is pretty poor and actively detrimental
4:21
Speaker 4: to guys' progress in some cases. Like we've been diving
4:25
Speaker 4: a lot into helping clean up guys' postures. And I've
4:29
Speaker 4: been learning a lot from you and from Richie about that,
4:32
Speaker 4: but just learning how much your posture and the way
4:35
Speaker 4: you move sets up everything that you do in your delivery.
4:38
Speaker 4: And it's not always about oh, let's blindly try to
4:41
Speaker 4: get these guys to lift more weights. It's about cleaning
4:44
Speaker 4: up the posture and getting them to move well, and
4:46
Speaker 4: then adding load to it. And like, we can make
4:49
Speaker 4: progress in the two hours that a kid's in there
4:52
Speaker 4: in the facility with us. And then they go to
4:54
Speaker 4: their high school and they've got some strength and conditioning
4:57
Speaker 4: coaches telling them, okay, today's lower body day. So we've
5:00
Speaker 4: got 10 sets of back squat followed by 10 sets
5:03
Speaker 4: of front squat.
5:04
Speaker 3: And then like, I wish I was joking.
5:06
Speaker 4: It sounds ridiculous, but we did the math and like,
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Speaker 4: there's kids who are having to do like 200 reps
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Speaker 4: of heavy squats at school. And it just kind of
5:15
Speaker 4: undoes everything that we're trying to do in the facility
5:19
Speaker 4: or just takes away from the training economy. Even if
5:21
Speaker 4: the high school weightlifting program isn't terrible, it's just by
5:25
Speaker 4: its nature going to be generic because there's one coach
5:28
Speaker 4: for however many players there are.
5:30
Speaker 3: So it's not going to be able to be tailored.
5:32
Speaker 3: But if a kid's.
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Speaker 4: Having a hard lift for an hour and a half
5:36
Speaker 4: at school, we don't want to add on another coach.
5:39
Speaker 3: Heavy lift.
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Speaker 4: So it just kind of takes away from the training
5:42
Speaker 4: economy where we could do something more personalized. That's going
5:45
Speaker 4: to potentially be more beneficial for the way that they
5:47
Speaker 4: actually move. I'd say it's been the hardest part and
5:50
Speaker 4: kind of the most frustrating part so far.
5:52
Speaker 3: Would you agree with that?
5:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I honestly completely even blanked on the weightlifting side.
5:57
Speaker 2: Cause you're right.
5:58
Speaker 1: These kids, they have it as a class. So like
6:00
Speaker 1: they have to do this every single day. And because
6:03
Speaker 1: it is a class, like even if the coach doesn't
6:06
Speaker 1: have anything for them or a specific plan, well, I
6:09
Speaker 1: guess we'll, we'll squat today or we'll do just another
6:11
Speaker 1: full body workout or just random exercises. And like, we're,
6:15
Speaker 1: I know it sounds like we're dogging on these coaches,
6:17
Speaker 1: which maybe we are a little bit, but it is
6:19
Speaker 1: kind of the nature of the beast for them for
6:21
Speaker 1: their job and being a high school strength coach and
6:23
Speaker 1: dealing with, you know, like you said, 30 plus guys
6:26
Speaker 1: where they have to do something and it has to
6:28
Speaker 1: be more generic and they're not going to be able
6:30
Speaker 1: to get into the personal things. And they might not
6:31
Speaker 1: even be a baseball guy specifically that's working with baseball
6:35
Speaker 1: players primarily. So, And like you said, for us, we're
6:38
Speaker 1: not going to be like, oh, okay, we'll just pretend
6:40
Speaker 1: like you didn't do anything at school today and we're
6:42
Speaker 1: just going to do our normal S & C stuff.
6:44
Speaker 1: You're going to get your three lifts in a week.
6:45
Speaker 1: We're going to do all of your speed and conditioning
6:47
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. And that's just not right
6:51
Speaker 1: or not the reality.
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Speaker 2: And I honestly think some facilities do do that.
6:54
Speaker 1: I have seen that to where they don't really account
6:56
Speaker 1: for what you're doing outside of there. They're just, they
6:58
Speaker 1: have their program and their thing and they're just going
7:00
Speaker 1: to do that. Obviously, we're trying to be a little
7:02
Speaker 1: bit different and different in a positive way to where
7:05
Speaker 1: we're focusing on what the player needs. And that factors
7:08
Speaker 1: in what that training economy looks like and making sure
7:10
Speaker 1: we're not just crushing them because a lot of times
7:12
Speaker 1: these kids, they show up and I think they are
7:14
Speaker 1: used to being crushed and like being forced to do
7:16
Speaker 1: things over and over again.
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Speaker 2: And when we tell them like, no, we're just going
7:19
Speaker 2: to chill today.
7:19
Speaker 1: I know that's not ideal and we'd like to be
7:21
Speaker 1: able to do more stuff, but like you're clearly gassed. Your,
7:25
Speaker 1: your force numbers, your jump numbers, all that are going down.
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Speaker 1: Your arm care scores are going down. Like we have
7:31
Speaker 1: all these things in place and systems in place to
7:32
Speaker 1: where we can see how well you're actually recovering and
7:35
Speaker 1: And if we see you're going in the wrong direction,
7:37
Speaker 1: velo's going down, you're getting arm pain or whatever it
7:40
Speaker 1: might be like, it would be foolish just to keep
7:42
Speaker 1: loading up on that and adding to that. So that
7:45
Speaker 1: is kind of the frustrating part, I would say, as
7:49
Speaker 1: a coach in a facility. But also the fun part
7:52
Speaker 1: is how do we get creative to still get this
7:54
Speaker 1: kid better and without overworking and over abusing them, but
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Speaker 1: getting creative with how we train them and what areas
8:00
Speaker 1: we do start to focus on.
8:01
Speaker 2: So what have been some areas for you? Give me
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Speaker 2: an example.
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Speaker 1: Let's just say we have a kid that is just
8:06
Speaker 1: getting crushed in the weight room. We can't really do
8:08
Speaker 1: a ton of lifting stuff. Um, he might even be
8:10
Speaker 1: through a plane on two other teams during the week.
8:13
Speaker 1: So it's like, now what do we even do from
8:14
Speaker 1: a throwing standpoint? Like worst case scenario, what has been
8:18
Speaker 1: your strategy or what have you found to be helpful
8:20
Speaker 1: things that we can do with guys in those situations? Yeah.
8:23
Speaker 4: I mean, even in that case, we can, um, still
8:26
Speaker 4: get creative, like you said, with just movement stuff, even
8:29
Speaker 4: with real lightweights. Um, with different breathing exercises to try
8:34
Speaker 4: to get more range of motion. I've been shocked just
8:37
Speaker 4: from our interactions and from what Richie's taught me personally
8:42
Speaker 4: with how one breathing exercise and targeting air into the
8:45
Speaker 4: upper chest, for example, can add range of motion to
8:49
Speaker 4: your hips set or increase internal rotation at the shoulders.
8:53
Speaker 4: So it's kind of wild how the body moves and like,
8:56
Speaker 4: obviously doing a couple of breathing exercises doesn't put any
8:59
Speaker 4: extra strain on a person or, doing some like reverse
9:02
Speaker 4: sled walks to help someone feel getting into their heel,
9:07
Speaker 4: for example, to kind of help clean up the delivery.
9:09
Speaker 4: And it's also not going to put any strain on
9:12
Speaker 4: their body. I've also been kind of getting creative with
9:15
Speaker 4: some different med ball routines. So like if a guy,
9:18
Speaker 4: like you said, is playing on two different travel teams
9:20
Speaker 4: or is a travel team and a school team and
9:23
Speaker 4: is throwing a bunch with those, obviously we're not going
9:26
Speaker 4: to have them come in and rip a couple of
9:28
Speaker 4: bullpens on top of that.
9:30
Speaker 3: So yeah, just.
9:31
Speaker 4: Different med ball routines so they can still kind of
9:33
Speaker 4: feel the patterns on the mound and make changes to
9:36
Speaker 4: the delivery that we want them to make and that
9:38
Speaker 4: we think will be beneficial without actually putting any more
9:40
Speaker 4: strain on the arm. So just using all the tools,
9:43
Speaker 4: the water bag stuff's another great tool to train patterns
9:47
Speaker 4: in the delivery without taxing the arm at all. And
9:51
Speaker 4: we have so many great tools like that that we
9:53
Speaker 4: can use to to our advantage to improve the delivery
9:56
Speaker 4: without hurting the hurting a player.
9:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good point.
10:01
Speaker 1: Like, you're not really going to over fatigue someone by
10:04
Speaker 1: doing breathing exercise by doing movement, mobility based things, or
10:07
Speaker 1: even some of the non throwing drills.
10:08
Speaker 2: That we have.
10:10
Speaker 1: And there might even be a greater positive impact on
10:13
Speaker 1: that if we are spending more time doing those things,
10:15
Speaker 1: because they've neglected that part of their training for so
10:18
Speaker 1: long that like, if we can really focus on that,
10:20
Speaker 1: there's probably some low hanging fruit of just improving their
10:22
Speaker 1: movement quality, which ultimately will lead to them moving better
10:25
Speaker 1: on the mound, hopefully recovering better and things like that. Yeah.
10:28
Speaker 4: And kind of along the same lines, like, like I
10:31
Speaker 4: used a lot of med ball stuff when I was
10:32
Speaker 4: playing and I love it to like, like, For me,
10:36
Speaker 4: especially like I'd get so robotic in my delivery because
10:40
Speaker 4: I'd throw a ball the same way every single day.
10:42
Speaker 4: And I'd always like, you saw my touch and feels
10:45
Speaker 4: and you saw the way I played catch. It would
10:46
Speaker 4: be very deliberate with, okay, I'm trying to get to
10:50
Speaker 4: this position and I'm trying to hit this checkpoint, my delivery. Well,
10:57
Speaker 4: and then if you move to a med ball, it's
10:58
Speaker 4: just an entirely different implement and you don't have that
11:01
Speaker 4: sort of ingrained.
11:03
Speaker 3: Oh, I need to hit this checkpoint. I need to
11:04
Speaker 3: hit this checkpoint.
11:06
Speaker 4: And especially if you combine that with radar gun feedback of, Hey,
11:10
Speaker 4: I just want you to throw this med ball as
11:12
Speaker 4: hard as you possibly can. It ends up kind of
11:14
Speaker 4: creating new patterns and helping players move more efficiently just
11:17
Speaker 4: because it's unfamiliar and they're training in a way that
11:19
Speaker 4: they're not used to. And they're having to figure out
11:21
Speaker 4: the way that their body moves. So like, yeah, it
11:24
Speaker 4: kind of is difficult sometimes if we can't have a
11:27
Speaker 4: guy actually touch a baseball, because that is the name
11:30
Speaker 4: of the game is throwing and stuff like that. But
11:33
Speaker 4: it can kind of be a, a blessing in disguise,
11:35
Speaker 4: if you will, because it does train them in a
11:37
Speaker 4: different way and helps them be more athletic and move
11:40
Speaker 4: differently on the mound than their kind of ingrained bad habits,
11:43
Speaker 4: if you will.
11:43
Speaker 3: 100%.
11:45
Speaker 1: And I like what you said about the radar gun,
11:47
Speaker 1: and this is kind of going off topic slightly, but
11:49
Speaker 1: I think the radar gun is such a valuable tool.
11:52
Speaker 1: I saw Trey Dillard, I don't know if you know
11:53
Speaker 1: who Trey Dillard is or if you follow him on Instagram.
11:57
Speaker 2: I love Trey. Trey's a great guy.
11:59
Speaker 1: I've known him since he was in high school and
12:00
Speaker 1: he made a post yesterday just like ranking his his
12:04
Speaker 1: favorite implements on that. I don't even know what it's called.
12:06
Speaker 1: What is this new like grading system that people are doing?
12:09
Speaker 1: I haven't your list, like the S and the, yeah.
12:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you've been out of the social media
12:14
Speaker 3: game for a while.
12:15
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess I gotta get back on you.
12:17
Speaker 1: I've been seeing everybody doing that lately. And so he
12:19
Speaker 1: did one in radar gun. He put his like the
12:21
Speaker 1: number one thing. And I would tend to agree. And
12:25
Speaker 1: some people like, they might be thinking, well, why are
12:26
Speaker 1: we trying to radar everything? Like, why is it all
12:28
Speaker 1: about VLO? It's like, It's not always about the high
12:30
Speaker 1: intent velo. Like it's nice to use a radar gun
12:32
Speaker 1: for just regulating your intensity on low days or medium days,
12:36
Speaker 1: or just to get feedback on if I'm trying to
12:37
Speaker 1: work on a feel or a cue, like you said,
12:39
Speaker 1: even if it's medicine ball related, if I'm trying to
12:42
Speaker 1: feel something in my lower half at the same effort,
12:44
Speaker 1: is it giving me a different result from a velocity standpoint?
12:47
Speaker 1: So I think a radar gun could be a huge
12:49
Speaker 1: benefit for really any level of player.
12:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
12:51
Speaker 4: I mean, I lived it with my Tommy John rehab
12:54
Speaker 4: back in 2024 and like literally every single throw we
12:57
Speaker 4: had a radar gun. And that was more to kind
12:59
Speaker 4: of monitor the intensity. But I think I gained so
13:03
Speaker 4: much from, okay, the number today is 72 miles an
13:08
Speaker 4: hour or whatever it could be. Like, what can I
13:11
Speaker 4: do to hit that number as easily as possible? Or
13:14
Speaker 4: like you said, like, let's try out a new cue
13:16
Speaker 4: or like a new feel with my arm action or
13:19
Speaker 4: with my lower half. And even if it's the same intensity,
13:22
Speaker 4: but the velocity jumps two or three miles an hour,
13:24
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, we actually have something here versus, Before,
13:27
Speaker 4: if you're just playing catch, you're like, oh, that feels
13:30
Speaker 4: good or that feels different. Without that feedback, you don't
13:34
Speaker 4: actually know if it's making a positive change until, say,
13:37
Speaker 4: a couple of days later when it's time for your bullpen.
13:39
Speaker 4: You try that cue out and either it's like, OK,
13:42
Speaker 4: it is making a difference in a good way or
13:44
Speaker 4: your velo is the same at the same effort or
13:46
Speaker 4: potentially even worse. It's like, OK, now I've wasted three
13:48
Speaker 4: days working on this drill or this cue or this
13:51
Speaker 4: feel without having any feedback on it.
13:54
Speaker 2: For sure. The only negative, I'll give a negative.
13:57
Speaker 1: There's always a negative to anything or there's another side
14:00
Speaker 1: to think about it. With our high school kids specifically,
14:04
Speaker 1: until they've started training with us, in most cases, high
14:08
Speaker 1: school players haven't had a radar gun on them for
14:11
Speaker 1: the majority of their throws. Maybe they'll have a pocket
14:13
Speaker 1: radar at a showcase and they're like, oh, I hit
14:16
Speaker 1: 87 today. At least that's what so-and-so said. When you're
14:18
Speaker 1: in our facility, there's kind of always a radar gun on.
14:21
Speaker 1: There's a radar gun on when you're thrown into the net.
14:23
Speaker 1: We have track men on for bullpens. There's been times
14:27
Speaker 1: where I'll turn it off if I think a kid's
14:28
Speaker 1: getting domed up or thinking about it too much. But
14:30
Speaker 1: that is a component I think we have to be
14:33
Speaker 1: aware of with high school kids is even if we
14:35
Speaker 1: tell them we're not throwing at max effort, today is
14:38
Speaker 1: supposed to be a drill day or it's a touch
14:40
Speaker 1: and feel, whatever it might be. If they see anything
14:43
Speaker 1: less than what their personal best has ever been on
14:46
Speaker 1: the mound, they start freaking out.
14:48
Speaker 2: They think something's wrong. They get down on themselves.
14:51
Speaker 1: So the mental side, I feel like the longer I
14:54
Speaker 1: do this, the more I have to become a sports
14:56
Speaker 1: psychologist with kids specifically. Like what have you seen now
15:00
Speaker 1: being on the coaching side or what are some things
15:02
Speaker 1: that have helped, haven't helped from helping guys stay mentally
15:06
Speaker 1: sane on the mound? Yeah.
15:07
Speaker 4: I mean, going back to your last point, it's not
15:09
Speaker 4: just high school kids. Like I was training at driveline
15:13
Speaker 4: this past off season and even on the low days
15:15
Speaker 4: in there, there's that like competitor in you where the
15:19
Speaker 4: guy next to you, his low day, his easy VLO
15:22
Speaker 4: is say like 78 miles an hour and he's just
15:25
Speaker 4: flicking it. And I'm like, okay, like for me at
15:29
Speaker 4: that same effort, I'm probably like 72, 73, but I
15:31
Speaker 4: can't get embarrassed by the guy next to me throwing
15:35
Speaker 4: that much harder. So then the low days starts to
15:37
Speaker 4: turn into medium days. So there's definitely a balance with that.
15:41
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think the biggest thing from the mental
15:44
Speaker 4: side is just being able to relate to guys and
15:47
Speaker 4: let them know that you've been kind of in the
15:50
Speaker 4: same spot as they've been. Because I know from experience,
15:54
Speaker 4: like when you're going through the Superdome and when you're
15:58
Speaker 4: domed up, it can be a lonely place to be,
15:59
Speaker 4: especially on the mound when you're struggling to throw strikes
16:03
Speaker 4: and like bullpens can go off the rails quickly and
16:05
Speaker 4: it's frustrating and you feel like, you're like, what's wrong
16:10
Speaker 4: with me specifically where I'm struggling with this. And I
16:14
Speaker 4: think the biggest thing that I've been able to do
16:17
Speaker 4: is kind of relate to guys in terms of like, yeah,
16:20
Speaker 4: I went through this exact same thing in this year,
16:24
Speaker 4: or this was my experience with that.
16:26
Speaker 3: And here's how I got through it.
16:27
Speaker 4: And like, I know when I was younger, like it's
16:32
Speaker 4: a little different, but like when we'd have big league
16:34
Speaker 4: guys come and rehab with us with the muscles and
16:36
Speaker 4: just talking to them about the mental side and, recognizing like, oh,
16:41
Speaker 4: they they're thinking the same things, too.
16:43
Speaker 3: And then like Trevor May, I don't know if.
16:45
Speaker 4: You see his videos on social media, but he's been
16:48
Speaker 4: very open about like his struggles with the mental side
16:51
Speaker 4: of things and talking about how he got nervous before
16:54
Speaker 4: every single outing.
16:55
Speaker 3: And like when I was a young guy, I was like.
16:58
Speaker 4: Oh, because like you look around the bullpen and no
17:00
Speaker 4: one's showing outward signs of nerves when they're sitting there
17:04
Speaker 4: unless maybe it's like a guy's first day that they
17:06
Speaker 4: just got called up and you can tell they're a
17:07
Speaker 4: little jumpy and a little bit on edge but for
17:09
Speaker 4: the most part everyone's kind of chill and calm but
17:12
Speaker 4: like for me like I'd hear the name my name
17:15
Speaker 4: get called on the phone I'd feel like the adrenaline
17:18
Speaker 4: surge and the butterflies in my stomach even if it
17:21
Speaker 4: was my 30th outing of the year I'd already thrown
17:24
Speaker 4: a couple hundred innings in pro ball and for a
17:26
Speaker 4: while I was like what's wrong with me where I
17:29
Speaker 4: can't overcome this or where I can't get comfortable and
17:32
Speaker 4: just hearing guys who've been more experienced and played where
17:35
Speaker 4: I want to play, go through that made a big
17:38
Speaker 4: difference of like, Oh, everyone goes through this.
17:40
Speaker 3: They just don't show it.
17:41
Speaker 4: So I think relating to the high school kids and
17:44
Speaker 4: telling them that this is something that everyone deals with
17:47
Speaker 4: and it's normal, like that makes them feel a lot
17:49
Speaker 4: more comfortable.
17:49
Speaker 3: 100%.
17:51
Speaker 1: And I would say too, like the reason you're feeling
17:54
Speaker 1: those things in a lot of the cases is because
17:56
Speaker 1: you care so much, you put in this work, you
17:58
Speaker 1: want to perform, like, it's not a bad thing. Like
18:00
Speaker 1: you can take it as a negative thought of.
18:02
Speaker 2: Oh, now I'm nervous. I'm worried about X, Y, and Z.
18:05
Speaker 1: But if I channel it into, okay, yeah, I'm feeling
18:08
Speaker 1: this because this is a great opportunity. I'm excited about this.
18:12
Speaker 1: I wanna perform well. I've worked hard for this. And
18:15
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna use this and channel it to actually
18:18
Speaker 1: be focused and use this adrenaline to my advantage and
18:21
Speaker 1: use all these feelings. So it's like, there's always two
18:23
Speaker 1: sides to every feeling that we have. We can either
18:25
Speaker 1: go down the negative route with it or we can
18:26
Speaker 1: turn it into a positive. And I would even say like,
18:29
Speaker 1: If that was the norm for you and you stop
18:31
Speaker 1: feeling that, that might be a signal that it's time
18:34
Speaker 1: to stop playing because you don't care anymore probably or
18:37
Speaker 1: something has changed in the way you've approached it to
18:39
Speaker 1: where you're not feeling that same adrenaline rush, which I
18:43
Speaker 1: would say is a good thing when it's channeled appropriately.
18:46
Speaker 1: And we've seen, I mean, I saw, you know, in
18:48
Speaker 1: low A with the muscles, I won't say what player,
18:51
Speaker 1: but there's been very good players that have struggled with.
18:54
Speaker 1: anxiety to the point to where they can't eat before
18:55
Speaker 1: the game they throw up before the game you know
18:57
Speaker 1: things like that you hear about that even at the
18:59
Speaker 1: big league level of guys where like they feel nauseous
19:01
Speaker 1: or can't even eat before a game even when they're
19:03
Speaker 1: you know five years into the big leagues.
19:05
Speaker 4: Yeah no definitely and kind of like you said reframing
19:09
Speaker 4: it um like when i was going through my tj
19:11
Speaker 4: rehab i worked a lot with a mental performance coach
19:15
Speaker 4: um steve cutter awesome guy talked to him pretty much
19:18
Speaker 4: every week during my whole rehab and one of the
19:21
Speaker 4: things we worked on was that reframing of like that
19:24
Speaker 4: feeling is a butterfly is like, you could call it
19:27
Speaker 4: nerves or you could recognize that it's an adrenaline surge
19:31
Speaker 4: and it's your body, like putting yourself in a spot
19:34
Speaker 4: where it's going to be in the best place to succeed. Like,
19:37
Speaker 4: like you see it all the time in bullpens guys
19:39
Speaker 4: come in and there's just no adrenaline.
19:41
Speaker 3: They're throwing 87, 88, 89.
19:43
Speaker 4: And then they get in the game and they get
19:46
Speaker 4: that adrenaline surge and they're throwing 95, 96. And that
19:47
Speaker 4: feeling is like, in the pit of your stomach is
19:51
Speaker 4: what allows you to go out and perform at your best.
19:53
Speaker 4: So kind of understanding that of like, oh, it's my
19:56
Speaker 4: body being prepared and ready to go attack rather than, oh,
19:59
Speaker 4: it's nerves about what could go wrong. And then you
20:02
Speaker 4: sort of start spiraling that way and think that it's
20:04
Speaker 4: your body shutting down or being tense. So that reframing,
20:08
Speaker 4: like you said, is a really good point.
20:09
Speaker 3: 100%.
20:10
Speaker 1: All right, let's dive into one more thing related to
20:14
Speaker 1: the struggles or the day in and day out of training, guys.
20:17
Speaker 1: So the last thought I had is when you're a player, right,
20:22
Speaker 1: this is pretty fresh for you. More or less, you
20:27
Speaker 1: only have control over yourself where you're, I don't want
20:29
Speaker 1: to say you're only focused on yourself, but like when
20:31
Speaker 1: it comes to your work ethic and what you're doing
20:33
Speaker 1: on and off the field. you kind of take care
20:35
Speaker 1: of yourself as a player and sure you look out
20:36
Speaker 1: for your teammates and things like that.
20:38
Speaker 2: But you're really focused on what you are doing as
20:40
Speaker 2: a player.
20:41
Speaker 1: And I would say, I'm not just saying this because
20:43
Speaker 1: you're on the call with me, but I would say
20:44
Speaker 1: you were one of, if not the hardest worker that
20:47
Speaker 1: I coached with the twins or even outside of the twins.
20:50
Speaker 1: There's other guys that they don't have that same work
20:52
Speaker 1: ethic or drive. Now that you're on this side, you know,
20:56
Speaker 1: as a coach to where you need to kind of
20:58
Speaker 1: be that motivator or help guys find that spark to
21:01
Speaker 1: actually push themselves and work hard. Like, you've seen it
21:04
Speaker 1: in this short amount of time. We have some kids
21:05
Speaker 1: in the facility that you don't have to say anything.
21:07
Speaker 1: They're going to do everything they need to. They're going
21:09
Speaker 1: to go above and beyond what's asked. And there's other
21:12
Speaker 1: kids where it's like, Hey, did you do all of
21:15
Speaker 1: the reps in that set? Or did you half-ass it? Right?
21:18
Speaker 1: Like there's, there's two ends of the spectrum to that.
21:21
Speaker 1: So like, how has that transition been for you of
21:23
Speaker 1: like almost being a motivator and trying to instill that
21:27
Speaker 1: work ethic in players? Yeah.
21:29
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the biggest part is understanding what
21:33
Speaker 4: the player wants to get out of the training. And
21:36
Speaker 4: I think that we have a good system of when
21:39
Speaker 4: a guy comes in, we sit down with them and
21:41
Speaker 4: it's not just a like assessment that we do. We
21:44
Speaker 4: also talk about their goals and what they're like, their
21:46
Speaker 4: short-term goals of where they want to be by like
21:50
Speaker 4: February right now for like the high school kids when
21:52
Speaker 4: they have tryouts this spring, or even our pro guys,
21:55
Speaker 4: when they come in, it's February is when they report
21:57
Speaker 4: to spring training. So we sit down, like, what do
21:59
Speaker 4: you want? Like, where do you want to be by February?
22:01
Speaker 4: And then more long-term goals of where, where do you
22:05
Speaker 4: want to go with baseball? And depending on the answers
22:09
Speaker 4: to that, how we need to motivate them is going
22:11
Speaker 4: to be entirely different. Like if it's a high school
22:14
Speaker 4: senior who's coming in, he's like, really all I want
22:18
Speaker 4: is to contribute to my varsity team this year and have, like,
22:21
Speaker 4: I didn't really play last year, but I want to
22:24
Speaker 4: get 25 more innings on the mound before I go
22:27
Speaker 4: off to college and I'm done playing baseball forever. Like
22:29
Speaker 4: the motivation for that's going to be different than say
22:32
Speaker 4: a high school junior comes in who's maybe a little
22:35
Speaker 4: bit behind the eight ball in terms of strength and
22:38
Speaker 4: the velocity that they need and they're like I want
22:39
Speaker 4: to go division one I'm willing to do whatever it
22:42
Speaker 4: takes to get there like obviously you're going to have
22:44
Speaker 4: to motivate that guy or treat that guy a little
22:47
Speaker 4: bit different just because the goals are different so I
22:50
Speaker 4: think recognizing that everyone wants different things out of the
22:54
Speaker 4: game and kind of meeting them where they're at and
22:57
Speaker 4: if their work ethic isn't matching what the goals are
23:01
Speaker 4: then kind of reminding them of what the goals are. And, um,
23:05
Speaker 4: sometimes that means having a tough conversation of like, Hey dude,
23:09
Speaker 4: you said that you really wanted to play on varsity
23:11
Speaker 4: this year. And right now your work ethic isn't matching
23:15
Speaker 4: with that goal or the decisions you're making with how
23:19
Speaker 4: you're eating and fueling your body, or you're skipping this
23:23
Speaker 4: skipping training to go do.
23:25
Speaker 3: X, Y, Z with your friends. That's not lining up
23:28
Speaker 3: with the goals that you have.
23:30
Speaker 4: I think that's kind of the biggest part in terms
23:32
Speaker 4: of motivating guys because we'll never be able to lift
23:35
Speaker 4: the weight for them or do the reps for them.
23:37
Speaker 4: So just understanding what they want and then sometimes having
23:41
Speaker 4: to have those tough conversations if their work ethic isn't
23:43
Speaker 4: lining up with where they want to go in the game.
23:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a good point. I love that.
23:47
Speaker 1: And I do like that we do that in our
23:49
Speaker 1: initial reviews or assessments with guys. And really, we do
23:52
Speaker 1: it periodically, right? Every six to eight weeks or so,
23:54
Speaker 1: we're sitting down and reevaluating those But what's nice about
23:58
Speaker 1: that is it's not just us creating these goals for
24:01
Speaker 1: them and saying, Hey, I want you to do this.
24:04
Speaker 2: So you need to do that.
24:05
Speaker 1: Right. It's coming from them of what they at least
24:08
Speaker 1: claim they want to do. And then the work kind
24:11
Speaker 1: of proves how bad you actually want what you.
24:13
Speaker 2: Say you wanted. And if you don't want that, that's fine.
24:16
Speaker 1: Just understand that if you do want to go after this,
24:19
Speaker 1: like there's certain standards and benchmarks that you have to do. Um,
24:22
Speaker 1: I forget the exact quote, but Nick Saban, Nick Saban's
24:25
Speaker 1: filled with good quotes.
24:28
Speaker 2: In press conferences.
24:28
Speaker 1: But one of the things he talks about is if
24:31
Speaker 1: you want to be great at something, there really isn't
24:33
Speaker 1: a lot of options.
24:34
Speaker 2: Like you, you have to do the work. There's no
24:37
Speaker 2: way around that.
24:37
Speaker 1: So if you want to accomplish something great, you don't
24:40
Speaker 1: have all these different options that you have to choose
24:42
Speaker 1: from of how to get there. Like it's pretty straightforward.
24:44
Speaker 1: You have to put in the work and you have
24:45
Speaker 1: to do whatever it takes. It takes what it takes
24:47
Speaker 1: is another common saying that people say. Right. And I
24:50
Speaker 1: think sometimes kids or anybody, I mean, even in regular life,
24:53
Speaker 1: like I have goals for myself for life and business
24:56
Speaker 1: and all those things. And It's easy to say, I
24:58
Speaker 1: want all these things, but what does the work actually show?
25:02
Speaker 1: And maybe once you get started, you realize, oh, this
25:04
Speaker 1: actually is going to take a lot more than I
25:05
Speaker 1: thought it would. I don't know if I want it
25:07
Speaker 1: as bad as I thought I did. I don't know
25:08
Speaker 1: if I'm willing to sacrifice all these things to get
25:10
Speaker 1: to that goal.
25:11
Speaker 2: And that's fine. You just have to be honest.
25:13
Speaker 1: With yourself and we need to adjust accordingly because at
25:17
Speaker 1: least the way I operate. And I think kind of
25:18
Speaker 1: the way you operate is like, we like to be
25:21
Speaker 1: objective and track things. Of course, there's a feel and
25:23
Speaker 1: subjective aspect to these things. But when we can measure
25:26
Speaker 1: something and we can hold people accountable for what they
25:28
Speaker 1: say they wanted, like we're going to push them for that. Right.
25:31
Speaker 1: And it's the way I'm kind of built is like,
25:35
Speaker 1: you say you want to do something, we're going to
25:37
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to get there. And when your
25:39
Speaker 1: work ethic or what you're doing doesn't line up with that,
25:41
Speaker 1: like something doesn't compute with me. So it's like we
25:43
Speaker 1: have to, and that's, that might be a defect on me.
25:46
Speaker 1: I have to be able to meet the player where
25:47
Speaker 1: he's at, like you said, but I think just constantly
25:49
Speaker 1: coming back to what they said they actually wanted. And
25:51
Speaker 1: if we need to adjust what they said they wanted,
25:53
Speaker 1: then that's fine. we just have to have those check-ins
25:55
Speaker 1: every once in a while.
25:56
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:57
Speaker 4: And kind of going along with that, I think the,
26:00
Speaker 4: just talking to them about here's what it does actually
26:03
Speaker 4: take to play at the highest level. Cause like looking
26:07
Speaker 4: back at when I was in high school, like I
26:09
Speaker 4: thought I was working hard and I thought I was
26:12
Speaker 4: doing everything right. Like I'd go, like I had a
26:15
Speaker 4: weightlifting class. I'd go on Saturdays to get some extra
26:18
Speaker 4: weightlifting in at a facility near my house. And like,
26:22
Speaker 4: I thought that, like just showing up and doing whatever
26:25
Speaker 4: workout it was on the board that day. I'm like, okay, I'm,
26:27
Speaker 4: I'm working really hard towards my goals. And then like
26:31
Speaker 4: through college and getting into pro ball and being around
26:34
Speaker 4: people who are major leaguers and people who've played at
26:38
Speaker 4: the highest level, it's like, oh, that like, that's what
26:41
Speaker 4: it actually takes. And like, I think when you're in
26:44
Speaker 4: high school and you're like most people in a high
26:47
Speaker 4: school weightlifting class, aren't going to be pushing themselves very
26:50
Speaker 4: hard because they're just there because like you said, it's
26:52
Speaker 4: a class that they have to take and they're not
26:55
Speaker 4: really working towards something in the long run. So if
26:58
Speaker 4: you're around people like that, like I was, I was like, Oh,
27:01
Speaker 4: I'm the hardest worker in this class. I'm doing everything right.
27:04
Speaker 4: But like the benchmark for that is so much lower
27:06
Speaker 4: compared to the benchmark of people who are going to
27:09
Speaker 4: achieve those goals of playing at a good college or
27:12
Speaker 4: playing professionally. So just kind of understanding that, it's not
27:17
Speaker 4: just the people around you. It's the like kind of
27:19
Speaker 4: global standard of the, it takes what it takes that
27:21
Speaker 4: you were saying.
27:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.
27:23
Speaker 1: And it's like, sure. There's some people that don't have
27:28
Speaker 1: to work as hard as maybe you do, but like,
27:30
Speaker 1: don't assume that you are the top 1% of the
27:32
Speaker 1: world that can get by with natural talent. Like just
27:35
Speaker 1: thinking about the kids we have in our facility, we
27:37
Speaker 1: have some good players, but I don't think any of
27:38
Speaker 1: them are good enough to just get by on their
27:40
Speaker 1: natural talent to actually get to where they say they
27:41
Speaker 1: want to get. Yeah. Yeah.
27:43
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I certainly wasn't like.
27:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to work hard just to be average. So, okay, well,
27:53
Speaker 1: let's move on to the last part of what we'll
27:56
Speaker 1: dive into.
27:57
Speaker 2: And this, I think this would be a fun thing.
27:59
Speaker 1: Like I'm anticipating you and me are going to do
28:02
Speaker 1: some episodes together pretty consistently moving forward. I think this
28:05
Speaker 1: could be a fun part that we do in most episodes,
28:08
Speaker 1: just kind of dive into what we're learning and what
28:11
Speaker 1: we're applying to our coaching and, just kind of what
28:14
Speaker 1: those big things are that we're trying to attack and
28:16
Speaker 1: get better at. So I'll start with you. What's the
28:18
Speaker 1: first thing that comes to mind from a learning standpoint?
28:22
Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing, we kind of touched on
28:24
Speaker 4: it already, but just how the posture affects everything else.
28:31
Speaker 4: When I was playing, I had and still have terrible
28:36
Speaker 4: hip mobility and like my shoulder range of motion wasn't great.
28:41
Speaker 4: And I tried to attack that when I was playing
28:43
Speaker 4: with just like the classic 90, 90 hip switches over
28:47
Speaker 4: and over or hip cars and just the kind of
28:50
Speaker 4: like classic stock mobility drills where you're not actually really
28:56
Speaker 4: changing anything. If that makes sense, like you might get
28:59
Speaker 4: a little bit more range of motion, but For me,
29:02
Speaker 4: I know that looking back now, I cheat all this
29:05
Speaker 4: stuff by compensating in my low back or compensating with
29:09
Speaker 4: the knee or some other part without actually gaining any
29:13
Speaker 4: hip mobility. And just how that posture then affects everything
29:19
Speaker 4: because I'd wonder why I wasn't able to get into
29:23
Speaker 4: certain positions on the mound or move a certain way
29:25
Speaker 4: on the mound. And I'm starting to understand now that
29:28
Speaker 4: it's just because my posture was set up in a
29:30
Speaker 4: way where I couldn't really get into those positions. And
29:34
Speaker 4: I would just try to drill and cue it to
29:36
Speaker 4: death and like force myself to muscle into certain positions.
29:40
Speaker 4: that I then couldn't get out of or couldn't move
29:42
Speaker 4: through well. Um, so that's kind of been the biggest
29:45
Speaker 4: thing of like cleaning up the posture. And then that
29:49
Speaker 4: kind of opens up different ranges of motion or different
29:52
Speaker 4: possibilities for how you can move efficiently on the mound.
29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. While you were saying that, it made me think
29:57
Speaker 1: of two words, local versus global. So the hip cars,
30:01
Speaker 1: to me, I think of that as like a local
30:04
Speaker 1: exercise where I'm kind of focusing on a very specific
30:07
Speaker 1: joint of trying to create this different range of motion.
30:10
Speaker 1: When I think of a global change, I'm changing the
30:13
Speaker 1: whole system of how that actually happens. So you kind
30:16
Speaker 1: of alluded to this earlier. we might do a breathing
30:19
Speaker 1: exercise where we're trying to get access to getting more
30:22
Speaker 1: air in our chest. And as a result, we're able
30:25
Speaker 1: to have cleaner IR on our shoulder or in our hip.
30:28
Speaker 2: And we didn't even touch the shoulder directly or the
30:30
Speaker 2: hip directly.
30:31
Speaker 1: But because we're changing the whole system of how our
30:34
Speaker 1: posture is, how we're able to get air into different
30:37
Speaker 1: parts of our body and create pressure or gradients in
30:41
Speaker 1: different parts, that's when you make those actual changes. So
30:46
Speaker 1: You also mentioned Richie earlier. So for those of you
30:48
Speaker 1: who don't know, Richie Anderson, he works out of our facility.
30:52
Speaker 1: He runs his own strength and conditioning company, but he
30:55
Speaker 1: has been vital for me and I think for you
30:58
Speaker 1: too for educating us on these types of things.
31:02
Speaker 2: So he follows Bill Hartman's model.
31:04
Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know who Bill Hartman is,
31:06
Speaker 1: he's a physical therapist based out of.
31:08
Speaker 2: Indiana, I believe.
31:09
Speaker 1: And he's created this model that basically challenges people what
31:16
Speaker 1: typical PTs or strength coaches would preach from a movement
31:21
Speaker 1: standpoint and planes of motion. Just to give you a
31:25
Speaker 1: quick summary, like I believe Bill doesn't really believe in
31:27
Speaker 1: different planes of motion. Everything is either external rotation or
31:32
Speaker 1: internal rotation.
31:33
Speaker 2: We operate on helical angles.
31:34
Speaker 1: Which is, you know, essentially like this circular movement in
31:38
Speaker 1: our body.
31:38
Speaker 2: I believe, please don't quote me on any of this.
31:40
Speaker 1: I am still a novice when it comes to to
31:43
Speaker 1: these types of things. But what's great about it is
31:47
Speaker 1: I feel like for the first time, I'm actually making
31:50
Speaker 1: changes to people that before I would have just given
31:54
Speaker 1: a basic stretch or isolation stretch that, oh, maybe that helps.
31:57
Speaker 1: It feels good in the moment and then it kind
31:59
Speaker 1: of goes away, but we're not actually making changes. So
32:03
Speaker 1: this whole system of understanding how movement actually works and
32:09
Speaker 1: how we can channel breathing in different positions and postures
32:11
Speaker 1: and how that's going to impact how we move on
32:13
Speaker 1: the mound has been pretty cool. So, you know, kind
32:16
Speaker 1: of building off of yours, that's been my biggest thing.
32:18
Speaker 1: What I've been diving into is just learning that. And
32:20
Speaker 1: it's been great having Richie in the facility because I
32:22
Speaker 1: literally just drill him with questions every day and we'll
32:25
Speaker 1: do it with real live examples. Like I'll say, Hey,
32:27
Speaker 1: you see that kid right there?
32:28
Speaker 2: What do you see?
32:29
Speaker 1: Well, he has this little compensation. Like what are some
32:33
Speaker 1: ideas of how I could attack that? And he'll give
32:35
Speaker 1: me ideas and he'll help us with that. So, that's
32:37
Speaker 1: been super cool. What's interesting about that stuff too, is like,
32:41
Speaker 1: I feel like as a coach, there's this constant evolution
32:45
Speaker 1: of like, Oh, I feel great.
32:46
Speaker 2: I know so much information right now.
32:48
Speaker 1: And then, Oh no, now that I've gone to another layer,
32:50
Speaker 1: I feel like I know nothing.
32:51
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do now.
32:53
Speaker 1: And it's like this constant evolution of like these peaks
32:56
Speaker 1: and valleys of feeling like you understand how to coach
32:58
Speaker 1: really well.
32:59
Speaker 2: And don't, you know, don't know how to do anything.
33:01
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to throw a baseball.
33:02
Speaker 1: Anymore, which is like I said earlier, as a coach,
33:07
Speaker 1: we can go to the Superdome and figure out all
33:09
Speaker 1: these things, but how do we simplify for the player
33:12
Speaker 1: and give them the key ingredients?
33:14
Speaker 2: What they need is obviously the most important thing.
33:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean, you hit the nail on the head.
33:18
Speaker 4: Like every time I feel like I start to understand something,
33:22
Speaker 4: especially with the posture stuff and the Bill Hartman model,
33:25
Speaker 4: it's like, then I'll ask Richie's, I'll be like, oh,
33:28
Speaker 4: so it's this, right? And then you guys like a
33:30
Speaker 4: layer deeper. I'm like, oh, I actually don't understand anything
33:33
Speaker 4: at all and feel like I'm back to square one.
33:35
Speaker 4: But it's fun to just always be learning and figuring
33:39
Speaker 4: out new stuff.
33:40
Speaker 3: And, um, like I.
33:42
Speaker 4: Really enjoyed the latitude that you've given me to try
33:45
Speaker 4: different things and just like the environment that we have
33:49
Speaker 4: where like you and I can kind of experiment on
33:51
Speaker 4: ourselves and try different things.
33:53
Speaker 3: It's, it's pretty fun. 100%.
33:55
Speaker 1: To me, that's the best way to learn. Like you
33:57
Speaker 1: have to try, you have to fail and evolve. Like
33:59
Speaker 1: that's how you get better at something. Um, here's one
34:02
Speaker 1: little thing I was just thinking about that's been helpful
34:04
Speaker 1: for me of measuring hip interrotation. So we do a
34:07
Speaker 1: bunch of table measures at the facility. So we'll test
34:09
Speaker 1: shoulder ER, IR, we'll test hip IR, ER.
34:13
Speaker 2: Hip abduction, flexion, all those things.
34:15
Speaker 1: One thing that's been helpful for me through learning from
34:18
Speaker 1: Richie and through this lens is let's say I table
34:21
Speaker 1: test hip IR and it appears like the player has
34:25
Speaker 1: decent range of motion.
34:27
Speaker 2: But you also sense that there might be a compensation.
34:29
Speaker 1: Maybe he's arching his back a little bit or there's
34:31
Speaker 1: some sort of turn that's happening that's allowing him to
34:33
Speaker 1: get more of that hip IR. An easy way to
34:36
Speaker 1: kind of fact check that to see if he actually
34:38
Speaker 1: does have legit IR is a straight leg raise. So
34:41
Speaker 1: if he appears to have good hip IR, then you
34:43
Speaker 1: do a straight leg raise and you're getting some resistance
34:45
Speaker 1: like at 45 degrees or less, that's a pretty good
34:47
Speaker 1: signal that he actually doesn't have that hip IR in
34:51
Speaker 1: that hip and he's found a way to compensate to
34:53
Speaker 1: achieve that move at least in the table test.
34:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
34:56
Speaker 3: No, I think all that stuff is pretty cool.
35:00
Speaker 4: And it's crazy how the body moves and how interconnected
35:03
Speaker 4: everything is. And just the different ways that people compensate
35:07
Speaker 4: for the same kind of underlying issue is pretty, pretty interesting.
35:11
Speaker 2: For sure. What else you got? What else you been
35:13
Speaker 2: diving into?
35:15
Speaker 4: Um, I mean, just, I love all the data and
35:18
Speaker 4: analytics stuff. And I definitely went way too into it.
35:23
Speaker 4: When I was a player, I spent way too much
35:25
Speaker 4: time on true media, which was the platform we had
35:27
Speaker 4: with the twins where I'd be diving into different stuff. Um,
35:31
Speaker 4: but it's been really fun to like watch the playoffs
35:34
Speaker 4: and then hop onto our platform and see a guy
35:37
Speaker 4: who like watching a guy dominate in the post season
35:40
Speaker 4: and then pull up his movement plot and his data
35:42
Speaker 4: and try to figure out like, okay, why is this
35:45
Speaker 4: guy having so much success? Um, and, I've really been
35:49
Speaker 4: enjoying that. The biggest example that stands out to me
35:52
Speaker 4: is Brian Baker, the closer for the Rays, where if
35:56
Speaker 4: you just look at his stuff on a raw movement plot,
36:00
Speaker 4: especially his changeup in isolation, the movement doesn't stand out.
36:04
Speaker 4: There's plenty of guys who throw that exact same changeup
36:08
Speaker 4: from a pure movement standpoint. Um, but that was his
36:12
Speaker 4: best pitch that carried him to 41 saves in the
36:15
Speaker 4: regular season versus, and then however many he's gotten in
36:18
Speaker 4: the post season where he's been completely dominant and just
36:21
Speaker 4: going the layer deeper of like, okay, like here's how
36:23
Speaker 4: that changeup plays off of his fastball. And here's how
36:26
Speaker 4: he uses different vertical approach angles from his high arm
36:29
Speaker 4: slot to make that changeup play up even more. And
36:32
Speaker 4: how he uses, um, seam effects to generate late movement
36:36
Speaker 4: and sharper movement than a guy who, gets that just
36:39
Speaker 4: purely based on Magnus forces. So I think that stuff's
36:43
Speaker 4: really fun. The platform that we have where we can
36:46
Speaker 4: do all this stuff with the Magnus lines and the
36:49
Speaker 4: relative break lines is really cool to kind of visualize that.
36:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
36:53
Speaker 1: It's actually incredible when you think about it, how much
36:56
Speaker 1: data we have access to for major league baseball players.
36:58
Speaker 2: Like we can literally see almost anything.
37:00
Speaker 1: Like sure, there's some small internal things that we won't
37:02
Speaker 1: be able to see, but like, You'd be able to
37:04
Speaker 1: evaluate right after a playoff game, how a pitcher performed
37:07
Speaker 1: with all of his underlying metrics, his move and all that.
37:09
Speaker 2: Like, that's why you see so many Twitter accounts.
37:12
Speaker 1: If you're on Twitter much, like there's so many analysts
37:15
Speaker 1: now that are making products in their basement and they
37:18
Speaker 1: know how to evaluate.
37:20
Speaker 2: Players now because they have access to all this data.
37:22
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.
37:23
Speaker 1: And like, as a coach, we have all this information
37:26
Speaker 1: to where we can connect the dots of, all right,
37:29
Speaker 1: how does this relate to what we need to do
37:30
Speaker 1: with our current clients and how can we use that information?
37:33
Speaker 1: Or when we have a pro guy that is coming
37:35
Speaker 1: into the facility for the off season, we can look
37:36
Speaker 1: at all of his data, all of his numbers from
37:38
Speaker 1: the off season, or even the last few seasons to
37:42
Speaker 1: see what has changed if he got off track or
37:44
Speaker 1: if he started to get better. Like what were those
37:46
Speaker 1: changes to make sure we're reinforcing them or what do
37:48
Speaker 1: we need to change to get back on track?
37:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that's really cool. And like baseball
37:53
Speaker 4: savant is awesome. I've spent so much time on that
37:57
Speaker 4: since I retired. And like you said, over the, just like,
38:01
Speaker 4: over several years. Um, like we had the, a pro
38:04
Speaker 4: guy in the other day and was able to pull
38:06
Speaker 4: up his baseball savant from the time he debuted six
38:10
Speaker 4: or seven years ago. And it's like, Oh, did you
38:12
Speaker 4: know that you changed your slot by a couple of
38:15
Speaker 4: degrees every year over the past six years? And like,
38:17
Speaker 4: he had no idea and just things like that where
38:20
Speaker 4: you have access to, it's pretty, pretty amazing. It is.
38:23
Speaker 2: It's really cool.
38:24
Speaker 1: And then that brings me to my next point of
38:26
Speaker 1: what I've been diving into that I'm hoping that we'll
38:30
Speaker 1: be able to do at the pro, let me, the
38:31
Speaker 1: pro level might be a stretch, but at least with
38:33
Speaker 1: some of the colleges that we do consulting with, and
38:35
Speaker 1: that's with intended targets or intended zones.
38:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:38
Speaker 1: Driveline, I think was the first facility or group to
38:41
Speaker 1: kind of talk about this a lot or to start implementing.
38:43
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was talked about in other places, but
38:45
Speaker 1: driveline is what comes to mind as the people that
38:47
Speaker 1: were measuring that with their, what's that thing they call
38:49
Speaker 1: that board they have?
38:50
Speaker 2: Do they have a name for that?
38:51
Speaker 3: I don't know if they have a name for it,
38:52
Speaker 3: but they're just intended zones target.
38:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So, Pretty self-explanatory, but for those of you
38:57
Speaker 1: that don't know what intended targets are, it's measuring how
39:00
Speaker 1: far are we missing our spot by and in what
39:03
Speaker 1: direction are we missing it by. So obviously we can
39:05
Speaker 1: get a ton of information on this from pitch type,
39:09
Speaker 1: batter handedness, count situation, like where are our misses typically,
39:13
Speaker 1: or if I'm going inside with a fastball compared to
39:15
Speaker 1: outside of the fastball as my target, how does that
39:17
Speaker 1: adjust or how does that impact my miss direction or
39:21
Speaker 1: miss distance? So I've been really fascinated by that. We've
39:23
Speaker 1: been doing a ton of stuff with that in our facility.
39:25
Speaker 1: And now we can get more detailed information of measuring
39:28
Speaker 1: those misses and knowing what their typical miss is. So
39:32
Speaker 1: now we can program around that, right? Like data ultimately
39:36
Speaker 1: isn't just to be used for measuring and tracking stuff
39:39
Speaker 1: is to be used that we can actually impact performance
39:41
Speaker 1: and how we impact performance as we adjust their training
39:44
Speaker 1: based off of what we're seeing. So if I see
39:45
Speaker 1: a guy's consistently missing this fastball up an arm side, Well,
39:49
Speaker 1: now we can adjust our training appropriately for that, whether
39:51
Speaker 1: it's using differential balls, just bringing more awareness to throwing
39:54
Speaker 1: it to the glove side or whatever it might be.
39:56
Speaker 1: And then as a coach, the way I've been thinking
39:58
Speaker 1: about this, and I made a blog post about this,
40:00
Speaker 1: I think it was this week or last week, about
40:03
Speaker 1: how college coaches could use this information to impact their
40:05
Speaker 1: pitch calling. If I know that a kid can't execute
40:08
Speaker 1: certain locations, I'm probably not going to call those pitches
40:10
Speaker 1: more often than not, especially if it's close to what
40:13
Speaker 1: the hitter's strength is. So it's just more detailed information
40:15
Speaker 1: like that. Your catchers can now set up differently if
40:18
Speaker 1: they know that you need a target a little bit
40:19
Speaker 1: higher for your curveball because you tend to spike it
40:22
Speaker 1: or you need the fastball to be set up, you know,
40:24
Speaker 1: more on the glove side or whatever it might be.
40:26
Speaker 1: We have all this information to actually impact our performance on.
40:28
Speaker 2: The field, hopefully.
40:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that's super cool. And I can't
40:33
Speaker 4: remember if it was in the blog post or if
40:34
Speaker 4: we talked about it, but also the how different locations
40:38
Speaker 4: change the misdirection potentially. Like if a guy, when he's,
40:44
Speaker 4: trying to go glove side with his slider ends up
40:47
Speaker 4: usually pull yanking it. But if the guy's trying to
40:49
Speaker 4: just land a slider down the middle and he leaves
40:51
Speaker 4: it arm side, like those are two different misdirections depending
40:55
Speaker 4: on the intended target. So that definitely changes how we'd
40:59
Speaker 4: set their sites or like you said, use different implements
41:02
Speaker 4: or cues or whatever to help them end up getting
41:06
Speaker 4: closer to that intended target. Yeah.
41:08
Speaker 2: I mean, I think yesterday's actually a great example.
41:09
Speaker 1: So we had a high school kid throwing a bullpen and,
41:11
Speaker 1: he tends to yank his sweeper pretty bad.
41:14
Speaker 2: He's a right-handed pitcher. He'll yank it into the left-handed
41:16
Speaker 2: batter's box.
41:17
Speaker 1: And I can almost promise you, anytime we tell him
41:19
Speaker 1: to throw it down to the gloves that are down
41:21
Speaker 1: the way to a righty, he is going to yank it.
41:23
Speaker 1: But just by telling him, hey, let's throw this inside
41:25
Speaker 1: or let's start this more in the inner half to
41:27
Speaker 1: a righty, it ends up being more competitive. So you
41:30
Speaker 1: almost have to trick your mind in a sense, or
41:33
Speaker 1: as a coach or as a catcher with your setup,
41:36
Speaker 1: of maybe I'm not setting up or calling the pitch
41:38
Speaker 1: where I actually do want it, but it's going to
41:40
Speaker 1: end up getting the pitch to go where I do
41:41
Speaker 1: want it to be because that's just what that specific
41:43
Speaker 1: pitcher needs based off of what his misses typically are.
41:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
41:47
Speaker 4: And it also just brings so much more awareness, especially
41:49
Speaker 4: for like the high school guys. Like one of my
41:51
Speaker 4: favorite things is I'll ask like, Hey, where's your target
41:54
Speaker 4: on this pitch? Like a sweeper slider, for example. And
41:57
Speaker 4: they're like, I don't know. I just try to throw
42:00
Speaker 4: it towards the strike zone.
42:01
Speaker 2: Exactly.
42:02
Speaker 3: That that's how you do end up with those big misses.
42:05
Speaker 4: So like the intended zones helps with the bringing awareness
42:08
Speaker 4: of like, okay, for my pitch to end up here,
42:11
Speaker 4: here's where I actually need to start it. And like,
42:13
Speaker 4: I need to visualize throwing it at, whether it's the
42:16
Speaker 4: batter's front elbow or the umpire's mask or the catcher's
42:20
Speaker 4: mask or right shoulder, whatever it may be, just bringing
42:23
Speaker 4: so much more awareness to it and helping them then
42:26
Speaker 4: have cues where they can go into a game and
42:28
Speaker 4: know exactly like, okay, I'm trying to go slider glove side.
42:31
Speaker 4: I know exactly where I need to visualize starting it.
42:33
Speaker 3: 100%. Yep.
42:37
Speaker 1: And this is one of the things that we're going
42:38
Speaker 1: to do at our, our two day pitching campus coming
42:41
Speaker 1: up November 7th to 8th. So we're going to have
42:44
Speaker 1: a max of 10 high school pitchers from all over
42:46
Speaker 1: the country. So it's not limited to just guys in Arizona.
42:49
Speaker 1: You can travel in from anywhere. There's 10 spots available.
42:52
Speaker 1: It's going to be what I would call like a
42:53
Speaker 1: two day intensive, like a boot. I don't like the
42:56
Speaker 1: word bootcamp, but it's like, it's going to be pretty
42:58
Speaker 1: hands-on and diving deep into your arsenal, understanding your delivery and,
43:04
Speaker 1: and understanding what you need.
43:05
Speaker 2: To actually get better and take those next steps in
43:07
Speaker 2: your career.
43:08
Speaker 1: And like we said earlier, knowing what your end goal
43:10
Speaker 1: is and where you're trying to get is super important.
43:12
Speaker 1: That'll be valuable during this camp for us to tailor
43:14
Speaker 1: a plan that's going to help you get to where
43:15
Speaker 1: you say you want to go. And inside that camp,
43:18
Speaker 1: we're going to, of course, be throwing on our track man,
43:20
Speaker 1: our edger. We have a force play man that we'll
43:22
Speaker 1: be getting data for to see how you're producing force
43:24
Speaker 1: and moving. And then we'll be doing our intended zones
43:27
Speaker 1: as well to see how good your command is and
43:29
Speaker 1: some adjustments that we could potentially make. There'll be presentations
43:32
Speaker 1: baked in there as well. So you really leave understanding
43:35
Speaker 1: who you are as a pitcher and what you need
43:37
Speaker 1: to do to get better with real data, real information,
43:40
Speaker 1: not just us saying, yeah, your glove side looks a
43:42
Speaker 1: little weak.
43:42
Speaker 2: Maybe we should, you.
43:43
Speaker 1: Know, work on holding that out front a little bit longer.
43:46
Speaker 1: Or how about you just try getting deeper in your
43:48
Speaker 1: back leg and let's see how that works. Like we're
43:50
Speaker 1: going to give you real information that's actually going to
43:51
Speaker 1: help you get better. I know you've helped me with
43:54
Speaker 1: a couple of camps in the past, but what are
43:56
Speaker 1: some of your thoughts on how they've gone and what
43:58
Speaker 1: have been some of the key things that you've noticed
43:59
Speaker 1: in our previous camps?
44:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it's super valuable just to
44:03
Speaker 4: leave knowing exactly what your stuff looks like and kind
44:07
Speaker 4: of how that plays the best. Like just thinking back
44:09
Speaker 4: to my career, like we didn't when I was in
44:12
Speaker 4: high school, we didn't have TrackMan or Rapsoda or anything
44:14
Speaker 4: like that.
44:16
Speaker 3: But knowing myself now, like.
44:18
Speaker 4: I know that I have or had a plus like
44:22
Speaker 4: high carry fastball that would play really well at the
44:26
Speaker 4: top of the zone.
44:27
Speaker 3: But I didn't know that.
44:29
Speaker 4: I didn't really know that until I got to the
44:31
Speaker 4: twins and you and I actually sat down and had
44:34
Speaker 4: a meeting on one of my first days after my
44:36
Speaker 4: first bullpen, where you sat down and explained a movement
44:38
Speaker 4: plot to me and explained why a fastball would play
44:41
Speaker 4: better at the top of the zone. And I just
44:44
Speaker 4: thought back to when I was pitching in high school
44:45
Speaker 4: and college, and I had coaches who were like, you
44:48
Speaker 4: need to establish the fastball at the bottom of the zone.
44:50
Speaker 4: And like, I'd execute that really well and just give
44:54
Speaker 4: up singles and barrels all over the yard on man,
44:57
Speaker 4: like I threw that fastball so well right at the
45:00
Speaker 4: knees and the hitter was right on it. And then
45:03
Speaker 4: like I'd miss high and arm side trying to go
45:06
Speaker 4: down and away and I'd get a swing and a
45:07
Speaker 4: miss under it. And I'm like, huh, that's weird because
45:09
Speaker 4: I didn't execute that. And just thinking about how much
45:13
Speaker 4: better of a pitcher I would have been in high
45:15
Speaker 4: school and college if I had that information of, oh,
45:18
Speaker 4: like my stuff plays best at the top of the
45:20
Speaker 4: zone or like I had no idea how my slider
45:23
Speaker 4: moved when I was, in high school and college or
45:26
Speaker 4: how my change up or splitter moved. Um, so like,
45:29
Speaker 4: I thought like, I thought, Oh, I have a pretty
45:33
Speaker 4: good slider because like visually I could see it move,
45:36
Speaker 4: but then I'd have like, once I got to the
45:38
Speaker 4: twins and we broke down the data, it's like, Oh,
45:40
Speaker 4: this just like, it's too slow for where it, the
45:43
Speaker 4: way it moves. So we either need to add movement
45:45
Speaker 4: to it or we need to figure out a way
45:47
Speaker 4: to get it harder. And once we were able to
45:49
Speaker 4: do that, ended up getting so much better results on it.
45:51
Speaker 4: Cause for the longest time I'm like, man, I'm throwing
45:54
Speaker 4: it in catch play and I'm seeing it move or
45:56
Speaker 4: I'm throwing it on the mound. I'm seeing the break
45:58
Speaker 4: to it. Like why are hitters always on it and
46:00
Speaker 4: able to make contact with it? And then just kind
46:03
Speaker 4: of understanding that stuff and where your stuff plays the
46:06
Speaker 4: best and how it kind of stacks up with where
46:09
Speaker 4: you want to go and what you need to do
46:11
Speaker 4: to get there, I think is incredibly valuable.
46:15
Speaker 2: I agree.
46:15
Speaker 1: So you're going to get all that information at our
46:17
Speaker 1: camp and leave with a plan, not just guesses. You're
46:19
Speaker 1: going to actually know what you need to do to
46:21
Speaker 1: get better and we'll be able to support you along
46:22
Speaker 1: the way. with remote training as well after that. So reminder,
46:26
Speaker 1: that's November 7th and 8th here in Phoenix, Arizona at
46:29
Speaker 1: our facility. I'll put the details in the show notes
46:32
Speaker 1: for that as well.
46:33
Speaker 2: But this was good. This was a lot of fun.
46:34
Speaker 2: Looking forward to doing this more in the future.