Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Doing Divorce Without Alcohol

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Doing Divorce Without Alcohol · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage, these are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce or reorganising life afterwards.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warrandry people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: On today's podcast, I am joined by Catherine Elliott.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Catherine is the Alcohol Mindset Coach, and we discuss in this episode Doing Divorce Sober.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Catherine is one of Australia's leading specialist alcohol and binge drinking coaches for high-functioning professionals.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Her expertise and comments regularly appear in lifestyle, health, business, and women's media nationally.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a former binge drinker for over 30 years, Catherine coaches from Lived Experience and believes sharing our own stories is one of the most powerful tools in healing and finding a more balanced relationship with alcohol.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's also currently in a period of personal transition, having recently separated from a 24-year relationship, a 22-year marriage.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: She lives in Melbourne with her three teenager sons, Oscar, Tom, and Hugo, and a beloved cocker Spaniel Ralph.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: I trust you'll get something from this episode about navigating separation, divorce, and reorganizing life afterwards without leaning on alcohol as a crutch.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a rich conversation that goes beyond just discussing our relationship with alcohol as we navigate separation and divorce.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy this conversation with Catherine Elliott.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Catherine.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm delighted to be here, Sally Ann.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited because I think this is going to be a really rich and juicy conversation that is really in service to a lot of people.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kick off.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please tell us a little bit about you, your story, what you do, and really why you do it.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, there's lots in that, isn't there?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just a little teaser of, you know, background info.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I am a, I just turned 52.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had my birthday last week.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I am a uh a mum, I'm a business owner, I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, and I'm an auntie, and I'm also someone who is going through uh their own uh experience of separation this year as well.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm six months into the separation from my 24-year relationship.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have three teenage sons, 19, 18, and 15.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I also run a business called the Alcohol Mindset Coach, uh, which is an alcohol and binge drinking coaching business.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's a business that I've come to through my own lived experience of a binge drinking problem that I had for many years.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was one that I knew for a long time held me back from being the best version of the person that I really wanted to be, and it didn't align to the values of the person that I wanted to be.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't a rock bottom drinker, I wasn't a physically or daily dependent drinker.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was an event weekend binge drinker, which I think a lot of Australians can relate to.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I'm really passionate about questioning that type of drinking, not normalizing it and not accepting it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't feel good about it and it makes us feel embarrassed or ashamed, or it doesn't enable us to access the best version of who we are, then there's just a really fantastic opportunity to explore our relationship with alcohol.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm definitely not a quick drinking coach.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am a coach who is there to help people explore, change, improve their relationship with alcohol.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that led to a free choice of now being into my fifth year of alcohol-free living.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and for me, it's the greatest gift I've ever given myself, honestly.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's helped support me through many challenges in my life, including breast cancer, which I had uh I went through five years ago.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to stop drinking.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then six weeks later, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I really look back and think that, you know, something higher knew there was something coming for me in a way, and that by choosing not to drink, I enabled myself to really be present in the experience of cancer and make empowered choices around my health.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, it led to this new career that I decided uh to launch, I guess three years ago in this alcohol coaching space because I saw a real gap in the market for people like me.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I do one-on-one coaching.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I have I also coach in groups as well, and I love it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's my it's my passion and purpose in life is this work because of my own lived experience, I get to guide and support other people to really improve their lives in so many ways.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it, and it's a delight to be here.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that that concept about um exploring your relationship with alcohol and freeing yourself to actually become.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you use the word freeing, but I'm using that, freeing yourself to become the best version of yourself and live in alignment with the values of the person that you want to be, not necessarily the person that you are.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a similarity in the way I work too.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I really wanted just to reflect that back at you.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um you said you mentioned you're recently separated from the father of your kids after 24 years of marriage.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not we're not going to dig right into that because it's personal, it's private, and we respect everybody's privacy really closely and fiercely on the podcast.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I wondered if you would mind sharing, if you wouldn't mind sharing, why this separation and breakup is different from any other that you've experienced in your life.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's very different because it's the first relationship breakup that I've done without using alcohol to cope, uh, to numb, to avoid.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's been big.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to sit in a lot of pain.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've had to sit in my my choice about separating from this relationship.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I've also really had to feel feel feel things, feel emotions, be with emotions.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm just really grateful for the alcohol-free lifestyle that I've chosen to process, process this this time of my life and to slow down as well.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the version of me that used to break up in relationships was one who would just get absolutely really drunk and you know, cry and be with their friends and feel terrible and really not be in the grief and the loss of what the end of a relationship is, regardless of whether that's your choice or not.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: There is a letting go and a grief.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, being in that process for me over these last few months, slowing down and being in that has actually been a real privilege for myself to be able to guide myself through that rather than numb myself through it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: My next question was going to be how has how has that sort of experience been been different for you both emotionally and mentally?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've sort of answered that, you know, but is there anything else you wanted to share in terms of an alcohol-free breakup versus an out versus a relationship relationship breakup where you use alcohol as a crutch and numbing or whatever?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that's really different markedly mentally, emotionally, between those two experiences?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think if I, you know, if I really compare the two experiences, I think the main difference is that when you're drinking, you are trying to escape and avoid.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you think that by drinking you're getting in touch with your emotions, but really those emotions are not your real emotions.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's your judgment and your emotional regulation is totally out of touch.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, really, you are often not accessing what is really going on.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I found this really interesting that when I decided to stop drinking five years ago, what happened was that I started to access grief from a lot of other losses in my life that I thought I'd move through and I thought that I'd processed.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, interestingly, you know, my first really serious relationship, you know, that that first time that you fall in love and connect with someone, that came up for me that I had not worked through some of what that was because I'd been drinking for 30 years.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so you kind of drink, avoid, move on, go on to the next thing, you never really think about it again.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas once my nervous system was sort of safe, slowed down, these thoughts and feelings started to come up that I was kind of shocked and surprised.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the big difference is my nervous system is actually able to go, hey, I I trust that I can, you know, allow and uh give you messages about kind of what the next step is here.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I really I have a lot more trust in my body to do what it needs to do naturally, rather than thinking I need to use alcohol to numb the pain.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I guess embracing painful experiences as well is something that I have become much better at doing because as human beings, particularly when we're going through separation and relationship breakups, there's pain, there's deep pain.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um why do we try and resist that?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's actually quite for me, it's been again a really intimate experience to lean into the pain.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the pain is love and grief, and then there's hope for what comes afterwards, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's lessons for us in the pain.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that you when you say, and we've had conversation about this offline before recording, that drinking less through a big life moment like a separation or divorce can actually be your superpower.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain a little more about what you mean by that?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you when you look at you know the the plain science of alcohol, it's a depressant, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: It impairs our judgment, it increases our impulsivity, which can lead to poor behavior, negative consequences, it disrupts our sleep, alters our thought processes, affects the brain chemicals that regulate our moods, brain chemistry, it lowers our serotonin.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So much that goes on with alcohol means that we are chemically in a much more compromised place to deal with something like separation, divorce, stressful situations.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: If the themes in this episode are resonating with you, if it's bringing up things that you would like to explore on a deeper level with me, you can book a free intro call via the link in the show notes and we can discuss coaching options.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to support you.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And now back to this week's episode.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about it, if there's one thing that you do which is to drink less or even to take alcohol out of the equation, you think about what that actually does in your body and your brain to help you be, I guess, the best version of yourself whilst you're navigating through a challenge like this, because you really need to have all your wits about you, uh all your energy and clarity and clear-headedness to try and navigate through it so that you feel that your values and needs are being met, that you're communicating what you need and want, I guess, but that you're also being respectful potentially of the other person in the relationship as well.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's where one choice, like looking at your relationship with alcohol, making changes, there can be so many wins through that in how you operate through a separation and divorce and really the ongoing relationship that you may have with the father of your children as a family as well.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I I know that I've had many clients who have been going through their own separation or yeah, divorce, relationship breakup, and they have realized that alcohol has either caused a problem in their relationship and that they then need to look at that, or that they know that they have to be a better version of themselves to really support themselves to get through, um, and start, I guess, a new life for themselves too, where they can really thrive.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually be, you know, you've mentioned this sort of a few times, be in touch with the real version of themselves rather than the version that is that the the one driven by alcohol, you know, as you said, behavior change and um communication strategies and decision making and risk taking, yeah, is all impacted.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely see with my clients too, um, how alcohol has, or you know, relationships with alcohol, alcohol itself has impacted their relationship either through their own use or their partner's use, um and impeded their ability to really be their true self and bring that into a relationship.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it it's so true.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the thing is if there's someone else in the relationship who's using alcohol as well, or there's two people using alcohol, it can create this really reactive, toxic mess.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when you choose not to drink, or you're drinking less, is you have more time and space to consider to respond rather than react.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there can often be this feeling of right, you know, I've got a text back and you know, anger or whatever it is.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have found when I was drinking, I was a much more angry, reactive person generally.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And now I feel so much more calm and I always take time and space, even if I, you know, I still get angry, but I'll write it down or I'll put it down in the text, but I won't send it because I know that that's not the right thing to do, and it's actually not going to lead to the best outcome for anyone.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it really helps with slowing down, pausing, making a more conscious choice.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when you make a more conscious choice, it's often a choice that's better for for both parties in the situation.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a conscious choice about how you want to communicate as well.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's the other thing.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: The words that you use, the language that you use, the communication, you know, again, that's something that I've really tried to consider and think about in my situation as well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned communicating with um your co-parent or the father of your kids, or you know, depending who's listening, the mother of your kids.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: How has it, either personally or with clients, how has shifting the relationship with alcohol changed the way perhaps you communicate with the father of your kids?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: To hear Kath's answer to this question and the remainder of the conversation, tune in to the podcast next week.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: The conversation went on quite a long time, so decided to split it across two weeks.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in next week for the rest of the conversation with Kath Elliott, the alcohol mindset coach.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Until then.