Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Police Association President Paul McCue says the force is struggling, with more support desperately needed

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Police Association President Paul McCue says the force is struggling, with more support desperately needed · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Now, as I spoke about a veteran police officer was
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: suspended for publicly criticizing how his commissioners had treated Constable
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Zachary Rolf over the fatal shooting of Kumenjai Walker over
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the weekend, we know The Australian reported that Sergeant Mark Casey,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: who has served in the Northern Territory Police for twenty
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: five years, said he was devastated and terrified after being
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: suspended without pay on Saturday night for alleged serious breaches
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of discipline related to his personal behavior and public views. Now,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this suspension notice follows an opinion piece which he had
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: written in The NT Independent in which he wrote about
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: his concerns relating to the authoritarian management as a whole
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and specifically in relation to the charging of Constable Zachary Rolf. Now,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: in addition to this story, we also know that there
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: has been absolutely tragic news yet another death of an officer.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: A much loved and highly respected officer took his life.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It is the third officer in three months. Now it's
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: prompting many people to question what support is being provided
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  Speaker 1: to our Northern Territory Police and if there needs to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: be some kind of inquiry in this space. Now joining
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  Speaker 1: me on the line is the Northern Territory Police Association
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  Speaker 1: President Paul Mchughue. Good morning to you, Paul, Good morning Katy. Paul. Firstly,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, we know there has been another tragic
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: death over the weekend. A highly respected and much loved
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: officer took his life. Paul, this is an incredibly tragic situation.
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  Speaker 2: It's you know, it's a tragedy, katy of the highest degree.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, this guy was in the job for twenty six,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: twenty seven years, a veteran of the police force, gave
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: his heart and soul to the community and obviously had
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: been struggling for some time and it was publicly made
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: people aware of that, and despite all the support networks
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: for him, sadly he did take his life over the
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: weekend and many of us knew him very well, in fact,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: went through training with him, and it was you know,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: it's taken its toll on the police force and everyone's
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: really gathering around at the moment and just trying to
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: make sure, you know, everyone's okay, because you know, we're
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: one big family essentially, and you know, this hits home
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: when we've now had three in such a short period
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  Speaker 2: of time, two current serving and one retired, and it's
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: tragic and we need to understand why.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Well, three officers in as many months, I know that
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  Speaker 1: you said, two current serving, one retired. Are we doing
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: enough to support our police?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously it's been an enormous couple of years.
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  Speaker 2: But even aside from what's taken place in the last
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: couple of years, you know, policing takes its toll regardless
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of COVID and all the other requirements of being a
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: frontline police officer. Police deal with the very worst in
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: our community. They deal with some horrendous matters, and they
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: go and deal with jobs that they see things you
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: just cannot unsee. They live and breathe it every day
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: and they go home and take that home every single day,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: and eventually, over many, many years, it just simply takes
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: its toll, and then people make decisions that perhaps they
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have made if they weren't unwell. And we need
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: to make sure we're doing everything we can, and Association
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: has been saying for years there needs to be a
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: heavy investment at the front end of people's careers and
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: the police to have those supports in place. And we
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: do have a review that we're waiting to see the
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: outcomes of because there has to be some improvements in
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: this area in terms of the support available for our police,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: not just when they're in the job, but when they
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: retired as well, because you know, it doesn't just stop
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: because you retire. Those things stay with you forever.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So, Paul, that review that you mentioned just a moment ago,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: is that a review that's been conducted by the Police
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Association or is it something more broad So we called.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: For the government for the last several years to do
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: an independent review and they agreed at our conference last
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: year to undertake that independent reviews. Some people were engaged
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: through government to undertake that and we are expecting to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: see some results of that. And that eventually did include
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: a survey of the membership, which we understand was very
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: well received and heavily responded to. So we're very keen
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: to see the outcome of what people said in there
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  Speaker 2: and what they feel they need. Is at the end
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of the day, they're the ones on the front line
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  Speaker 2: dealing with things day to day.
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  Speaker 1: So from your understanding right now, where is that review
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: ash does it sit with the Minister's office or where
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: does it sit.
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  Speaker 2: Currently? The outcome of that review and recommendations I believe
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: sit with the Police Commissioner and his representatives, and there
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: aren't expected to see us later this week to provide
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  Speaker 2: some outcomes of that review. So as soon as we
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  Speaker 2: know further, we're very keen to tell our membership because
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: ultimately they're the ones that have been calling for this.
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  Speaker 2: We've been asking for it for a very long time,
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  Speaker 2: and in our view, you know, the government's successive haven't
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: done enough anywhere near enough in this space for many,
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  Speaker 2: many years, so we want to see some positive steps
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  Speaker 2: in that place.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, Is that going to be enough? I mean, I
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  Speaker 1: think all of us agree that this is an incredibly
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  Speaker 1: tough job. You know that certainly better than I do.
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  Speaker 1: Every police officer out there listening this morning knows that
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  Speaker 1: better than I do. But some of what our officers
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  Speaker 1: see is is horrific, to say the least. Like you said,
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  Speaker 1: they deal with the worst in society on a day
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  Speaker 1: to day basis, and when we've got a situation where
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  Speaker 1: officers are taking their own lives, I mean, is a
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  Speaker 1: review going to be enough?
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  Speaker 2: Well, we hope out of this review comes more investment
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  Speaker 2: from government at the front end of members' careers and
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  Speaker 2: at the end of their careers, and in fact throughout
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: their entire career. And I know I might be harping
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  Speaker 2: on this point, but we need to make sure there
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  Speaker 2: are sufficient services in place and people feel comfortable coming
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  Speaker 2: to those services, either internally or externally, because not everyone
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  Speaker 2: wants to come and see a support person who works
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  Speaker 2: for the police. And that's nothing against those people. They
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  Speaker 2: do a great job. There simply hasn't been enough of them.
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  Speaker 2: But on many occasions members want to go and see
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  Speaker 2: people externally and they should be able to do that freely,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: and that should extend beyond their careers, longer than the
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: period it does at the moment, which I believe is
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: around six months, because it doesn't just cut off at
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: that period, and we need to make sure we've got
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: those go support networks in place.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there absolutely needs to be support for our officers,
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  Speaker 1: whether you're serving or you know, in those years after.
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  Speaker 1: I think there needs to be some support there. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know exactly how it works, but from the sound
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  Speaker 1: of things, we need to be having a serious look
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: into this. As you've said, that review is underway, but
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: let's hope that we very quickly see some outcomes and
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: we can move upon those to make sure that the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: mental health of our police forces, you know, where it
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: needs to be and that support is being provided.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, Katie, And I mean, you know,
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  Speaker 2: as we've as we've touched on, you know, we've got
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: many different reasons why why mental health and police officers impacted.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just the jobs the visit but and have
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to deal with every single day, but it's also internal
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  Speaker 2: mechanisms and also you know, resourcing pressures which we know
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: are very high at the moment on our front line,
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  Speaker 2: and that really affects your mental health as much as
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: anything else as well.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, I want to talk about another situation that's unfolded
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: over the course of the weekend. We know this situation
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: unfolded with Mark Casey. He wrote an opinion piece on
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the weekend with the NT Independent and was suspended without
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: pay very soon after. Have you spoken to Sergeant Casey
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  Speaker 1: and how is he going right now?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? Look at stuff times. I mean, obviously, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we know we've all seen what was written online over
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  Speaker 2: the weekend, and today obviously is the very first day.
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  Speaker 2: You know, we've been able to approach the department and
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  Speaker 2: speak to them about it. But we have been speaking
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  Speaker 2: with mister Casey over the weekend. We're helping him through
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  Speaker 2: what's a very difficult time. And you know, the bigger
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  Speaker 2: picture is why did he feel the need to do that?
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  Speaker 2: And obviously, you know that's all going to come out
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  Speaker 2: through the internal processes that are now underway. But of course,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it marks another one who's been in the
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  Speaker 2: job for many, many years. He's been in the job
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  Speaker 2: for over two decades. He's put his career, put his up,
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  Speaker 2: personal life, you know, on hold many times to the
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  Speaker 2: benefit of the community. He's had to go and deal
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  Speaker 2: with some horrendous situations. He's worked in major crash and
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  Speaker 2: we all know what some of those jobs would be
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  Speaker 2: like to have to go and deal with. And you
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  Speaker 2: know what support has been in place for him over
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  Speaker 2: his career, and he's just one example. So to speak
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  Speaker 2: out like he has raises a bigger question from my.
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  Speaker 1: Perspective, and what do you think that question is?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I guess why do you feel the need to
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  Speaker 2: do it? And obviously he's touched on in that article.
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  Speaker 2: The zach Rolf Matta now you know, we know there's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of opinion around that. We know there's a
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  Speaker 2: lot of opinion on social media. I don't react to
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: matters on social media. I'm sorry, it's you know, it
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  Speaker 2: can be a poison chalice. But certainly the fact he's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: touched on that has obviously been a trigger for him
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  Speaker 2: to undertake that article. We've made our position quite clear
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: on the roof matter. We've undertaken an extensive statement following
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  Speaker 2: the outcome of that trial, and we've now also said
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  Speaker 2: there are internal matters to deal with in a coronial
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  Speaker 2: to take place, and we also know the IKAK are
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: doing an investigation. So our position is quite clear on
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  Speaker 2: that we need to allow those processes to take their course.
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  Speaker 2: But Mark's frustrated. There's no doubt he was frustrated to
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  Speaker 2: pen an article like that and then that media outlet
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  Speaker 2: to actually publish that, potentially understanding the consequences of doing so. Well,
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  Speaker 2: there's questions in that as well.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that it's appropriate that he's been suspended
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: now without pay?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's obviously, you know, a debate. It is
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: something that's allowable under the Police Administration Act. But the
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  Speaker 2: fairness of it and and I guess the reasons behind
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  Speaker 2: why Mark did what he did, the empathy and and
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and you know, understanding his situation, his personal situation and
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  Speaker 2: taking that into account and suspending without pay, certainly from
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: our perspective, is harsh. We're not condaining what he did.
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  Speaker 2: We know he's come out and made some statements there publicly,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: and we're now dealing with the fallout from that. But
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: but to suspend him without pay was very harsh in
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  Speaker 2: our view. And as I said, you know, today is
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  Speaker 2: the first opportunity we'll have to speak with the department
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  Speaker 2: about that decision and whether we can get that reverse.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we have seen a situation over the years
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: where there have been officers who've been charged with criminal
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: offenses who have still been paid.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely right, And obviously we're out of the decision makers
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: when it comes to suspensions, and obviously we have to
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: go on a case by case basis. And you're right,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: you'll compare some criminal matters, for example, where members were
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: suspended with pay. Now this matter speaking publicly about his
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: concerns about the police force generally and matters in the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: police force, and suspended without pay. But ultimately that's a
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: decision from the Police Executive and we'll take that up
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  Speaker 2: with them today, Paul.
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  Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people have read this piece,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: but he did wrote that he, you know, there is
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the appearance that there'd been deception, dishonesty, or at the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: very least myths truths in relation to the circumstances and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the decision to charge Zachary Rolf with murder so quickly
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: after the event. You know. He went on to say
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that zach was unanimously found not guilty of murder as
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: we all know, and two alternate charges by the Supreme Court,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and went on to say that mister Chalkred stated that
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: he'd kept the investigation of the shooting at arm's length.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: He's questioned how when apparently, or as he's written, that
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: there was a media release approved the day before he
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was appointed. Paul, he makes points which so many people
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: are still questioning at this point. I know that within
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the rank and file, so many people are still questioning
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: at this point as I understand it. There has also
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: been three police regions now that are voted for the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association to hold a territory wide vote
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: of no confidence in the police Commissioner Jamie Chalkrind also
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: in the Deputy Murray small page. Firstly, I mean is
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: that the case? Have they voted this way? Yeah?
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Obviously we are governed by the associations like any other
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: union or association. We're governed by a constitution and by laws.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And you know, we have twelve regions, Katie, throughout the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: entire Northern Territory and they're all run by elected officials
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: who manage their meetings, you know, whenever they hold those meetings,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: and they're free to discuss and pass motions as they
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: see fit to bring forward. Now, our processes and procedures
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: are similar to many others, and you know those motions
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: that you speak about, you know, they haven't even come
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: across the desk of the NTPA Executive yet. Where our
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: job is not to stifle such a Our job is
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to provide guidance and advice and we do that and
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: regardless of our views, those motions can come forward. But
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: at this stage they haven't been considered by the NTPA Executive.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: But certainly those motions have gone through a few of
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: our regents today.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: But so Paul, by the sounds of it, three of
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: them have decided that they want this vote of no
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: confidence in the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker. Is this vote
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: going to happen, Well.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: That'll be debated once we've considered it through the executive
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and then obviously and your conference is just around the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: corner a couple of months away, so it's something that
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: needs to be debated as a whole. Obviously, this has
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: been driven from the members. They're frustrated on the ground
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: for a variety of reasons, and they're taking that frustration
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: out through those motions and certainly expressing that to us
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: as an executive. So that's certainly something that's still to
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: play out. And as I said, it hasn't been considered,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: so no decision has been made at this time.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: But so if that vote were to happen, it wouldn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: happen until August.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: That's that's correct at the earliest.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: At the earliest. Are you concerned that the force is
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: losing confidence in management at the moment?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously it's a it's a challenging time and obviously,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: you know we've had a whole bunch of things go
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: on as a police force over the last couple of years.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: We know all too well COVID and the ROLF matter
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and many other you know, I guess decisions that have
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: been made through the last couple of years and from
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: police management, and people are you know, are affected by that.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: They're affected on the ground. But it's not always about
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the police management. I want to say, you know, there
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: have been decisions made by the Northern Territory government that
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: have failed the police force. They failed to recruit for
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: an entire year back at the end of their first
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: term a government Kadi and we're seeing the fallout from
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: that right now and that's having an impact on our
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: members are feeling on the ground and they're taking out
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: their frustrations through through these motions and through through management
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: of the police force. And and I've got I say,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: you know, when we can't get a van on the
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: road other than over time of a night shift, you
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: know who's responsible for that. I mean, it is the
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: government government failure for that. It's not necessarily the police
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: force's failure. They have a finite amount of resources and
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: they've been asked to do an enormous amount over the
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: last couple of years and government needs to put their
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: hand up and take some responsibility for that failure.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Are we in a situation at the moment where the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Force are we are we in crisis
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: point here?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's pretty difficult to tell, but certainly,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you know, the feedback we're getting is they're they're they're
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: they're unwell. The police force is unwell. It's struggling to
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: keep up with day to day requirements. The expectations put
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: on them over the last couple of years has been
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: more than than I've ever seen over thirty years. And
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I know we still hear the government say we've got
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: more budget than ever before and more resources than ever before.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: That is simply not reflecting on the front line, you know, resourcing,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: and that is making our police force unwell. We've got
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: people taking sickly because they need a break. We know,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: we've seen the consequences of when people get really unwell,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and for heaven's sake, we do not need any more
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: of that because our police force is hurting right now.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Paul, What do we need to do right now? Because
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: obviously you've got some within the force who think that
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: there needs to be a vote of no confidence in
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Commissioner and commission a small page.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got others who don't think that the
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory government has managed things well at all over
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: the last few years. The reality is here. You know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: what is going to happen? What options do the rank
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and file have right now, right now?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And heaven forbid. I mean, we have some incredibly dedicated
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: people in the police force who don't want to let
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: their mates down, so they are turning up on over
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: time nearly every single day to make sure there is
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: response availability to the community. If that ceases, we are
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: in a world of pain. We need the Minister to
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: stop her silence. We need her to come out and
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: strongly in support of working with us, working with the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Commissioner to come up with a staffing solution which isn't
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: only fit for purpose, but it's actually fully funded and resourced.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And that means opening the books, seeing what the requirements
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: of our job is, seeing what numbers we've got and
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: where they are, and work with us. Stop pointing the fingers,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: stop saying you know it's not our responsibility. Everyone needs
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to work together to sort this out because the police
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: force is hurting. The frustrations are coming through meetings the
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: frustrations are coming from members needing to take sick leave,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: to get a break and worse, and we don't want
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: that anymore. The police force needs to make sure they've
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: got sufficient resources to do what they're being asked to do,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: and that has to start from the top, from the Minister,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the Commissioner and working together with us to make that happen.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Paul, is the police Minister's position tenable?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Look, our members it quite clear they haven't heard our
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: minister for some time speak loudly about what's going on
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: in the police force. We've raised our concerns directly with her.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: She knows how our position on that. We've been asking
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: for a long time, for example, for extra support in
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: terms of resourcing, extra support in terms of amending legislation
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: on when people are being assaulted in the police force,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: and right now we haven't seen it. We haven't seen that,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: and we need to make sure that she is listening
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: because our members are making it quite clear they're unhappy
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: at the moment.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So it sounds as though the rank and file questioning
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: whether her position is tenable.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, obviously, you know, as I said, they are
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: frustrated and they're taking that frustration out, not just on
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: the Commissioner, not just on the minister, but you know
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the NTPA as well. I mean, we are copying it
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: as well. And our job is to simply reflect what
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the members are saying, and we are doing that with
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the Minister, we are doing that with the Senior Police Executive,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and we will be criticis eyes for that, no doubt,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: and that's fine. But members need to know they have
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: a voice. They need to know they can stand up
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and say what they need to say because without that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and if they are in fear of doing that, then
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you know, we are never going to fix what's going
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: on at the moment. And that is a resourcing issue,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: causing untold health issues to our members on the road,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: and they need to be able to have a voice,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: to be able to express those concerns and get things fixed,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: because if we don't, we're in a world of pain.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Paul, we have just received a message from one of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: our listeners. It says there appears to be an unwillingness
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to criticize or push a no confidence motion against the
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Commissioner Jamie Chalker by yourself, Paul Mecheue, in recent months,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: are you compromised or have you exposed yourself in any
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: way with this current executive that you're not willing to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: carry out are the wishes of the Northern Territory Police
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Association members. That's a question from one of our listeners
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: this morning.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: You know that's just completely untrue. I mean, our job
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: is to put those motions to our full regions to
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: have a discussion about now we are directed by those regions.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Just because a motion passes through a regional branch motion, Katie,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean it happens overnight. It doesn't mean it won't happen,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: but it also may not happen. You know, it is
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: absolute nonsense to suggests that we are compromised or we
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: have been critical of the Commission in the past. He's
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: made it quite clear that he's been unhappy with us
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: in the past. But it's all about making sure we're
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: looking at what the big picture is, and that is
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: making sure we've got what we need for the reason
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: for the troops on the ground, because as I said,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: we've got to stop pointing fingers. We've got to start
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: working together. But we won't hold back if we need to,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and right now that discussion hasn't had an opportunity to
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: take place, and until that has we won't be we
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: won't be doing that survey until such time.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Paul, is the police Commissioner's position tenable because it does
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: seem as though there are a lot within the force
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: right now who have lost confidence.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously we're getting some feedback through through through
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: our regional branches and that debate will take place. I've
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: said that, you know, many many times, and you know
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: this stage, and I've made it publicly clear not long
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: after the role of matter that you know, there are
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of opinion around the commissioner at the time.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: We've said that until such time as people provide evidence
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to us that he has done some wrongdoing in terms
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: of that matter, then you know, the i K investigation
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: has to take its course until such time as there
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: is some wrongdoing that he may be accountable for. You know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: he's still the Commissioner of Police and there's nothing else.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't manage the government, we don't manage
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the police force. So it's not like the nt PA
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: can certainly walk in and say it's your time's up, Commissioner,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: move on. We can only express the views of the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: of the membership, and that's what we will do when
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: we've had the opportunity to debate that matter.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Well, Police Association President Cue, we are going to have
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: to leave it there. I appreciate your time this morning,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: thanks for speaking with us.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you.