Latest / Straumann® ProTalk / Straumann® ProTalk with Dr. Nikos Mattheos

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Straumann® ProTalk with Dr. Nikos Mattheos · Straumann® ProTalk

0:00
Now going back, to be honest, there is no going back because there is no back.
0:04
The place I left 25 years ago doesn't exist anymore.
0:07
You are probably one of the very few that has practiced
0:10
dentistry on three continents.
0:11
How is this different in Asia now?
0:14
You spend quite some time there.
0:15
How is this different than in Europe?
0:17
I've been there for many years now, and I feel more and more comfortable
0:21
in Asia and it has to do with the mentality of the people and with the
0:26
opportunities offered by the people.
0:42
Welcome to ProTalk.
0:43
Welcome to The Pulse of Dentistry.
0:45
Welcome to this episode where George and myself are very pleased to welcome
0:50
Professor Nikos Mattheos today.
0:53
Welcome, Nikos.
0:54
Great to have you.
0:55
Thank you.
0:55
You went all the way to Basel headquarter today from, from Asia actually.
1:00
So very excited to have you and you will see in the course of this podcast, we
1:04
will dive into the journey of Nikos, which is a journey with a lot of stations.
1:10
Over many years, we'll speak about your passion of education and
1:14
also your talent of education.
1:16
And of course we'll also speak about technology, digital technology, and we'll
1:20
speak about the future of the dentistry.
1:23
Nikos reading about you, I have to say, that was very exciting.
1:26
You had many stations in many countries.
1:29
You and I learned on your website, you, summarize yourself as a
1:34
periodontist, a researcher, an academic, and a digital entrepreneur.
1:39
Is this a good summary of you?
1:41
Who are you ? One minute.
1:42
Thank you.
1:43
I think this is indeed a good summary.
1:45
It's for words, at least when it comes to my professional side.
1:49
I think there's still more defining me, and it's for words, it's for passions.
1:55
And to be honest, I think the oldest of the four, maybe some people
1:59
might not realize it's actually computers and digital technology.
2:03
Something that is not very much known is that my very first publication in
2:07
science was actually about the hack that we had developed to help people.
2:12
View clinical videos of big length over very low bandwidth connections back then.
2:19
Oh, really?
2:20
In a time, yes, exactly.
2:21
So that was like a very early youTube band.
2:24
Exactly.
2:24
A very early version.
2:25
Back in the time when we 34 kilobytes, you could play games for weeks.
2:30
Today, 34 kilobytes is not even my name on the Word document.
2:33
So back then was and my first postgraduate degree was actually in he informatics.
2:39
So this passion of mine has preceded anybody any else.
2:44
And it has escorted me and I think throughout my career, both as clinician
2:48
or teacher or academic or researcher, it has always been around and it has
2:53
always synergized with anything I did.
2:55
And I think it's really a great investment.
2:58
So you also built your first own interactive website
3:01
at the very early stage.
3:02
I saw that was probably also an interesting project of yours.
3:06
So the digital thread goes through your entire, I would say career, right?
3:10
Yeah, absolutely.
3:11
We were earlier than Facebook, but we took a wrong direction
3:15
in the wrong direction.
3:16
Okay.
3:17
But you have to try things, right?
3:18
For a more exciting field, which is the industry.
3:21
And I mentioned already you had many stations in your journey.
3:25
So you learn about dentistry in essence at the University of Essence.
3:29
You've been in Malmo.
3:30
You spend time in the Griffith University in Australia.
3:33
You spend time in Bern also very important.
3:36
Then you spend time in Hong Kong and the ULA University in Bangkok.
3:41
So these are many stations.
3:43
How did these stations shape the Nikos that we meet today in Basel?
3:48
Yes, it's true.
3:49
It has been a journey and I have not really consciously made this choice.
3:53
I just followed opportunities.
3:55
I followed my instinct, my impulses, shall I say, and then
4:00
it all brought me where I'm here.
4:03
I think it was a blessing.
4:04
It was a great blessing because it exposed me to so different environments,
4:09
different cultures, and I think you learn a lot by trying and by thriving
4:14
in different institutions with different cultures, which seemingly have different
4:19
operations and different rules.
4:21
And then in the beginning it all looks different, looks chaotic.
4:25
But after you spend some time, you realize, no, there is a big
4:27
structure under the seemingly.
4:29
Chaotic scene.
4:30
And when you realize the structure, you decode the structure, you become
4:35
a richer person, able to cope better, able to understand better, and able
4:40
to bring people together easier.
4:42
And I think today, as we have also discussed before, we're moving
4:47
to a more fragmented world and.
4:50
Keeps staring people farther apart.
4:52
So I think it's more important than ever to have these
4:55
experiences that bring us together.
4:58
And I would strongly encourage everyone in academia to, to take
5:01
a leap of faith and keep walking and move out of your comfort zone.
5:06
Try a different place, try to test your survival skills
5:11
to start with somewhere else.
5:12
And eventually you will become a better person and stronger person.
5:15
And I think this is important.
5:17
Yes.
5:17
Yeah.
5:17
That's very interesting.
5:18
That's a very broad learning journey that you embarked on and you are
5:23
still very connected to many of these places and I imagine you
5:28
learn from a lot of great people.
5:29
So who have been the people that influenced you most, and
5:33
what did you learn from those?
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Yeah I have been blessed with all these places and I think I still feel home
5:39
in all these places, and I still have people in each place that I call family.
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So I try to keep my connection very vivid physically, if possible.
5:48
Digitally, if not possible, physically and there has been.
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The people in all these tops that really influenced me.
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It's a long list of people I should thank for all these, but if I was to single
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out just two, I would single out my major mentors Rolf Attström in Malmo in Sweden.
6:05
And Klaus Lang in Bern.
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Interestingly, these two people, they were very good friends.
6:11
They have been extremely liking, respecting each other, working
6:16
together in some parts, but they were very different personalities
6:20
and very different focus as well.
6:22
Rolf was periodontist in Malmo, professor of Periodontology,
6:26
very established researcher who towards the end of his career.
6:31
He just got really hooked into digital technologies.
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So he committed a lot of time to develop a digital curriculum of periodontology
6:40
with instructional videos, with content, and make it available freely
6:45
online, which we used in order to develop the first virtual classroom.
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And that became the core of my PhD.
6:53
Project actually.
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And then I moved to Switzerland where I came in contact with
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Klaus and his department.
7:00
And that was a really, a very deep influence in my clinical trajectory.
7:06
Klaus had developed a department at that time, which was unique.
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It was, a roof that actually brought together periodontology,
7:14
implant dentistry, prosthodontics, microbiology, dental technology, dental
7:20
hygiene, all in one roof, all working together or learning with each other.
7:25
And it allowed you to navigate your own path in, into all these disciplines.
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So for me was, exploding in my mind, the whole experience.
7:35
You can imagine.
7:36
I went to Bern as a periodontist.
7:38
I had placed a lot of implants.
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By that time, I had never seen an abutment.
7:42
I never really realized what happened.
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There is another part.
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Absolutely.
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I was in a very hardcore periodontology training, very
7:50
Scandinavian biological approach.
7:52
We would really scale to the bitter end, but we will place implants.
7:57
But after we place the implants, there was always a prosthodontist
8:00
department to take care of them.
8:01
And I never really realized what exactly they do.
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And when I went to Bern and I saw the whole process, my
8:07
mind changed so drastically.
8:10
Yeah.
8:11
So two great clinicians and mentors that you learned a lot from.
8:15
Maybe not yet in a very digital age, I imagine at that point.
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So who inspired you on your digital journey?
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I think that had started before, and to be honest, it was the
8:26
digital journey that brought me to Malmo, not the other way around.
8:30
Okay.
8:30
The reason I actually got there was because when I was a student as a dental
8:34
student and I was hooked into this technology during one of the European
8:39
Dental Student Association congresses.
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Rolf was also there.
8:44
And then our mutual interest in the digital technology brought us together.
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He had the content, the digital content.
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I was the one who wanted to create a virtual classroom.
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So essentially that was what took me to Malmo.
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We brought together this digital classroom.
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We took about 30 students from all over Europe, and we run a whole
9:03
semester online education for them.
9:06
And this is what actually was the starting point of everything.
9:08
It wasn't perio.
9:10
Perio came.
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Right after.
9:12
You talked about Leap of Faith before, so you know, from your many stations
9:17
that you actually had in your career.
9:19
Which one was the biggest leap of faith that you had to take?
9:23
Yes.
9:23
Very interesting.
9:25
I could respond this in sense of kilometers going to Australia,
9:29
that is probably the farthest one.
9:30
But sometimes I think we really focus in these decisions as if
9:35
we just clinging to the decision as if there is a right or wrong.
9:38
And we try to answer if, as if it's a TV game, shall I stay here?
9:43
Continue my career here, or shall I go to the other side of the world
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to continue my career and people get stuck and try to rationalize and miser
9:52
and see which is the right decision.
9:54
In fact, what I have learned there is no right decision.
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It only, what matters is what you do after you decide.
10:03
So you take the decision and then you move ahead.
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And what you will do after your decision that determines if this will be.
10:09
Retrospectively many years later.
10:12
Good.
10:12
Proved to be the good decision.
10:14
Good decision.
10:14
Yeah.
10:14
Or the wrong one.
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Do not focus too much in things that you cannot really respond because you don't
10:19
have the understanding and the facts.
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Sense what you want, gravitate towards what you really want to
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become, and take the leap of faith.
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And then you work hard to make this leap of faith proven the right way.
10:31
Yes, exactly.
10:31
So you listen to your your heart or your gut feeling, still, you have to
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take a decision, which is not easy, of
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course.
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And I realize that most of these decisions that I have taken that were
10:39
very drastic decisions to relocate your entire life to another place.
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Proven to be the right decisions now looking back.
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But at the time I took these decisions, the reasons I took these decisions
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were completely wrong and speculative.
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In the end, it turned out to be really good, but not because of what
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I knew when I made this decision.
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But mainly because of after you do the decision, you just give it
11:01
150% and in the end it works well.
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I'm pretty confident that even if I had stayed, it might have
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been also a right decision.
11:08
Yes.
11:09
A good life.
11:10
Yeah.
11:10
Yeah.
11:11
You are probably one of the very few that has practiced
11:14
dentistry on three continents.
11:15
For us Europeans we look at Asia and we see rapid developments there.
11:19
How is this different in Asia now?
11:22
You spend quite some time there.
11:23
How is this different than in Europe?
11:25
I've been there for many years now, and I feel more and more comfortable
11:30
in Asia, and it has to do with the mentality of the people and with the
11:35
opportunities offered by the people.
11:37
I think one amazing thing that happens right now in Asia, they
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have a massive human capital.
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There is a big number of young people who are willing to do things.
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They're willing to go at length.
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They have.
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The eye of the tiger to use some rocky terminology.
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When you really, you have the hungry eye, you really want to do things.
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So you're looking for a structure, a system guidance
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to, to really accelerate you.
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And once you find the system, you can actually outperform anything else.
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And this is something that we are lacking more and more in, in places where.
12:12
Dentistry and everything is more established.
12:14
People get more compassion.
12:16
They're falling a little bit back.
12:17
They're less eager to walk the extra mile, and there is less
12:23
available human capital to work with.
12:25
You might struggle to find this amount of young people who want to stay in a
12:30
university, who want to commit years into things that not necessarily
12:34
will compensate them directly.
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Immediately and instantly.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So less hungry.
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Yeah.
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Less hungry.
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You lost the eye of the tiger.
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If you've seen we lost the eye of the tiger.
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Yeah.
12:45
When Rocky became really successful and won a lot of games, he started
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losing the eye of the tiger.
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So would this also be a reason for you not to consider going back because you're now
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actually in an environment where you can have the right people to work with you.
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And probably that's a key element of also being successful.
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I'm very comfortable in the situation that I have found myself now into
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because I see the opportunity for me is great to help people develop
13:13
and grow and make amazing things.
13:15
Now, going back, to be honest, there is no going back because there is no back.
13:19
The place I left 25 years ago doesn't exist anymore.
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Doesn't exist anymore.
13:23
Yeah.
13:23
So going to Europe, it would actually be too.
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Another relocation.
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I would go to a new country Again.
13:29
Another leap of faith.
13:30
Exactly.
13:31
Exactly.
13:31
I think there is no going back.
13:33
You will never cross the same river twice.
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So maybe let's go a little bit into one of your passions, which is digital
13:39
technology and digital workflows.
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And more prominently also dynamic navigation.
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You're one of the proponents of dynamic navigation.
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You're interested in this, you also pushed this forward.
13:50
Can you tell us a bit more how it started, how did you actually, from the
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early startings of digital technology now came up to the point where now
14:00
you're looking into very advanced.
14:03
Applications of technology for the good of the patients.
14:07
Yes.
14:07
I think the starting has not been so spectacular, to be honest.
14:11
The digital workflow that we now come to put together started as different
14:16
isolated gadgets and a gadget there, a gadget here doing something differently.
14:22
But now we're coming to the point where we have this aha revelation that now suddenly
14:27
it's not about gadgets, it's about.
14:29
A pathway that when you really put it in the right way, it leads you to
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somewhere you have never been before.
14:35
And I think for me, the navigation became important when I realized that
14:41
it's not about the gadget, it is about.
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Your endpoint.
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So if your endpoint is to be something that is properly designed and something
14:50
that actually will take less time to materialize when it comes to immediacy,
14:54
for example, then the navigation is the only way to take you there.
14:58
Sometimes we see it as an academic challenge oh, you can be very accurate,
15:02
but there is no point in accuracy.
15:04
Accuracy has no meaning unless it is leading to something you something.
15:08
Yeah.
15:08
Exactly, and I think navigation is probably the best way I have seen so
15:12
far from all the alternatives to get where you need to go faster and safer.
15:18
But as you said, it's only valuable if it's a part of entire workflow.
15:22
How does your ideal digital workflow look today?
15:25
What is comprised in this and what do you achieve by it?
15:28
That wouldn't have been possible without those elements lined up.
15:33
I think the first step and the most important part of the digital workflow
15:36
today is digital treatment plan.
15:39
It means that now you collect information of three dimensional
15:43
anatomy, three dimensional conditions.
15:46
You put this in a CAD software and then you can, by applying some essential
15:51
principles that we get to understand more and more, you are designing a system.
15:55
We couldn't design a system in the past.
15:57
We were placing an implant in a position that was an anatomically.
16:01
Favorable.
16:02
And then someone else was coming and was placing a crown on top of the implant that
16:07
was already placed after an impression.
16:08
So that was two different workflows and essentially two different systems
16:12
that sometimes did not match together.
16:15
But today we have the opportunity to become through architects of a new system.
16:21
And this system is not just implant, it's actually implant is an
16:24
abatement, is a crown, a prosthesis?
16:27
It's also soft tissue.
16:28
It's bone and it's bacteria.
16:30
And all this works together.
16:32
And if you build the house so that all these tenants will live in harmony,
16:37
you will have a successful building.
16:40
If you build it in ways that you predispose troubles, you will end
16:43
up with problems in the long term.
16:46
So I believe digital treatment plan is the first and foremost essential
16:50
component of everything else.
16:53
So for this, you also need good data.
16:55
You need to create the patient avatar so to say.
16:58
And with this, there is also a lot of technological advancements
17:01
when it comes to generative ai.
17:03
So what have been some of the more exciting things that you
17:07
saw in the last, I dunno, two years when it comes to those AI.
17:11
Advancements in dental,
17:13
I think AI is essential and very promising component.
17:18
Now, what a little bit has hold me back is that so far AI means usually
17:23
machine learning that has been developed retrospectively by looking
17:28
back in two thousands of cases and now this is now the limitation.
17:33
I do not want my treatment plan to be defined.
17:37
By 10,000 retrospective cases, some of which might be up to scratch, some
17:42
of which might be really substandard.
17:44
So I think that especially when we realize how important is the treatment
17:49
plan in the digital design, then it becomes apparent that we need to.
17:53
Use all this knowledge, use this evidence in order to design something properly.
17:58
So I think AI has to fulfill two different functions.
18:02
The first of all, of course, you have to create the generative
18:06
prediction of how a crown, how an implant, how an ABBA will look like.
18:10
But the second is to make sure that what you.
18:12
Predicting what you propose is actually based on the evidence that
18:16
we have by now achieved to secure.
18:19
So I believe that the AI and the automations that will make a big
18:23
difference will be the ones that will use the machine learning together
18:27
with the rules based card design and match it and produce something
18:32
that really makes sense from an evidence-based point of view as well.
18:36
So you, you believe strongly in curated databases that actually, what is
18:41
fed to the AI is also preselected so that it learns from the good cases or
18:47
That would be one way to do it.
18:49
Difficult way to do it.
18:51
The other way to do it is you just blend conventional programming,
18:55
rules-based programming where you.
18:56
Teach or you set the boundaries of the card, and then you use the machine
19:01
learning to populate these boundaries.
19:03
But essentially you put the margins and the framework where
19:07
the design will take place.
19:09
Maybe another topic that is out there, but more in the future.
19:13
Robotics in dental.
19:15
What's your take on this?
19:16
Is this something that could become mainstream or will it
19:20
stay a gat for a long time?
19:22
Personally, I think it will definitely become mainstream, but we are at the very
19:26
early stage of this direction right now.
19:29
There is a lot of different ideas being put to practice going through
19:34
the proof of principle, going beyond the proof of principle.
19:37
But of course, when you have so many ideas, it doesn't mean that
19:40
all of them will materialize to a mainstream commercial.
19:43
And feasible clinically application.
19:46
And this is, I think now the critical period when you test organically
19:51
different prototypes, you see which one is moving more efficiently, and then
19:56
you wait for the breakthrough, which might come from a different direction.
20:00
Right now there is always something missing.
20:02
It's too big.
20:04
It's too it expensive.
20:05
Too costly.
20:05
It's too costly.
20:06
Exactly.
20:06
It's too bulky.
20:07
So this is what keeps it from getting in.
20:10
But then someone will come and might be someone not in the robotics of implant,
20:13
then this is, but in another field we will make a breakthrough, which will actually
20:17
lead to suddenly take one barrier away, make it cheaper, make it smaller, and then
20:22
suddenly you can see things happening.
20:26
It's a typical pattern.
20:27
If you look into technology.
20:28
For example, chat, GTP, everyone thinks that was a breakthrough.
20:32
Not really.
20:33
The theoretical foundation of this kind of language model existed for many years.
20:38
For long time.
20:39
Exactly.
20:39
The, we used to work with semantic networks in 2000 when I was there trying
20:44
to make mathematical relations of words, but we lack the computational power.
20:49
Without a computer so powerful and without access through the web to amazing loads
20:54
of information, even if the theoretical model was there, it would never take have,
20:59
could have not become what it is.
21:00
Yeah,
21:00
exactly.
21:00
So someone made the internet and made open access to all this information
21:04
and someone else made some powerful chips for games, created, by the way.
21:10
Exactly.
21:10
Computer gaming is really always underestimated power of evolution.
21:15
Yeah.
21:15
And then suddenly it clicks and here comes chat.
21:18
GTP out of the blue.
21:20
Yeah.
21:20
It was not the blue.
21:21
You guys speak about a lot of disrupting technologies and
21:24
let's carry this a step forward.
21:26
There's quantum computing, just around the corner, and you
21:29
spoke about computing power.
21:32
What is your vision of implant dentistries in 10 years from now?
21:37
I would expect implant dentist to become much more streamlined as a workflow.
21:42
We will have, by then an evolutionary power that will eliminate many of
21:48
the distractions today and probably reinforce very specific directions.
21:52
So I think we will have a much more streamlined workflow.
21:55
We will have much more automation, so there will be a lot of
21:59
automations, algorithmic, AI powered, which will take care of much of
22:04
the hassle that we have today.
22:06
Treatment planning is a great thing, but cat design is not
22:10
something that dentists like.
22:11
So we would all discuss the treatment planning on the patients, but nobody
22:16
would be willing to go to a cat, then design an abutment for the patient.
22:20
But I think this will be soon taken over by ai.
22:24
Which will give you a proposal of the optimal design that you will have
22:28
with your knowledge, then to accept or reject, and then move on to what matters.
22:33
Prepare for the surgery, prepare your patient for the procedure and use your
22:37
time where you really want it to be.
22:40
Not on the screen, but on the patient.
22:44
And maybe coming back to 2025.
22:47
Now, of course there are technologies like robotics, AI that will change
22:51
everything or a lot or will off offer a lot of incremental possibilities.
22:57
What are the topics that you know, you would recommend everybody to make use of
23:03
already this year in digital dentistry?
23:07
Yes.
23:08
Difficult to usually, I see there is a mistake people do when they're
23:13
trying to get into digital dentistry.
23:16
They focus too much on the devices, they focus on the gadget.
23:19
They look at the different software, the different gadgets,
23:22
and they start thinking, oh, what can this scanner do for me?
23:26
This scanner can do very little for you.
23:29
If you don't have a new mindset and a new workflow, so if you take the new
23:33
scanner and you use it in the same workflow, old workflow that you had
23:36
before, it'll give you very little I see this it's not about changing technology.
23:41
It's about changing the paradigm.
23:43
An example of how this can be confused.
23:46
I have some bureaucratic obligations from time to fill in some forms.
23:50
Lately, I got this information from the government agency.
23:53
Oh, we have a new way now.
23:55
You don't have to fill in this form here.
23:57
You can do it online.
23:59
I say, whoa, great.
24:00
Give me the link.
24:00
Then I go to the link, I fill it, the form online.
24:04
It's the same.
24:04
Same form?
24:04
Yeah, it was the same form.
24:05
Of course, I fill it online, but then I couldn't find the submit button.
24:08
I look up, I look down, I, what do you do with this?
24:11
So I had to call them.
24:12
I cannot submit it.
24:13
Something is missing.
24:13
It's oh, don't worry.
24:14
Just print it out and bring it over with your signature.
24:17
So you see there is a change of technology.
24:20
Now you fill it online, but the paradigm is the same.
24:23
You just print it outside.
24:25
So I think people should, yes, don't focus on the gadget, don't focus on the device.
24:30
Focus on your patient.
24:31
Look at your patient and see what is your patient that values
24:35
that he needs that he wants.
24:37
And then look at your workflow.
24:38
What is it that you can do better, more?
24:41
And what is you can offer to your patient to serve him in a better way, and then
24:45
backwards, you can find the tools that you need to serve him in a better way.
24:49
So I think when we look to comprehensive care today, there is
24:52
many ways that we can offer better service, and then the tools will come
24:57
after you decide your destination.
24:59
Do you want to be faster?
25:01
Do you want to be minimally invasive?
25:03
Do you want to make less chair sessions?
25:06
And then you will see how these tools will help you to get there.
25:09
You're a very visionary person, so you know, what is the dream that we should.
25:14
Collectively dream about implantology.
25:16
What's the future and how should it look like according to Nikos
25:21
? I think that we really have a lot of things still to achieve with Implantology.
25:26
Of course, becoming minimally invasive.
25:28
Striving to become minimally invasive is an option.
25:31
For me, the most important thing is to be more inclusive, to make
25:34
implants available for more people.
25:36
I think this is a, an amazing treatment, which can increase the quality of
25:41
life of people to a very high extent, but it's still limited to a small.
25:46
Part of the population that needs it.
25:49
And there might be very different kinds of barriers.
25:52
So I think in order for us to feel that we have reached the full
25:56
potential of implant industry, we have to also feel that we have made it
26:00
available to everyone who is in need.
26:04
There are many ways, and probably it goes beyond just the industry
26:07
or dentists, but I think this should be something we strive for.
26:11
Perfect segue to education as well.
26:13
I think it's you made a very strong point.
26:15
According to data that we see, patients that would actually be
26:19
good, implant patients that are missing teeth, we know that only six
26:22
to 8% of those receive an implant.
26:24
Finally, and many others, they are not receiving an implant.
26:28
They live with a gap or they receive a three unit bridge.
26:30
So I think that would be an interesting conversation.
26:33
To have a separate podcast on, how can we help, yes.
26:36
To bring this, the barriers.
26:37
Yeah.
26:37
How can we help to bring this great therapy to more patients?
26:41
I brought quotes with me from your website which I really like you, you have a very
26:46
professional website, I have to say.
26:48
And I like this quote because for me it also tells a bit about your mindset.
26:52
And the quote is, you consider yourself an amateur teacher
26:56
and a professional learner.
26:58
What do you mean by this?
26:59
And why do you feel this matters?
27:02
Yes.
27:02
I think that one of the first things I realized was the distinction
27:06
between teaching and learning.
27:07
That we sometimes really.
27:09
Mix it.
27:10
In fact, learning is a survival process.
27:12
It's a biological process which is there to keep you alive.
27:16
Everyone is learning from birth to death, and if you're a
27:19
good learner, you make it far.
27:21
If you don't learn easy, you might really leave this world early.
27:25
So I think learning is a survival process.
27:28
We're wired to learn, and if you have a brain, you are ready to learn.
27:33
And people who make it to the dental school, they're
27:35
usually very good learners.
27:37
They can learn very well.
27:39
Now, people who teach at the dental school are not always good teachers.
27:43
And that is also because teaching has never been the focus of
27:48
the academic advancement.
27:49
You do not become an academic based on your teaching credential.
27:53
So lately it has started, of course, to become more, but in my time,
27:57
all my academic teachers never received the training for teaching.
28:01
They became there on the merit of their expertise.
28:04
So I think there is a big difference between learning and teaching.
28:08
And learning is something that you will do.
28:10
Teaching is what everyone else will do to help you learn.
28:13
And good teaching supports learning, but teaching sometimes might be
28:19
people learn even despite of it.
28:21
So I do believe that we have to make sure that learning is
28:25
appreciated, but also teaching is.
28:28
Receiving the, their attention and the support it needs to grow.
28:33
Yeah.
28:33
Learning is a mindset and is also a decision, and it is lifelong.
28:36
And I think it it's something that makes you develop very fast.
28:40
I still think you're very modest on the teaching side.
28:43
I saw you lecturing and I have to say you are a very talented lecturer and teacher,
28:47
you seem to be a very modest person.
28:50
I looked at your online educational activities and it really impressed
28:55
me that the reach that you get on your own website, but on other
28:59
platforms as well is amazing.
29:01
And you seem to be very active there.
29:03
How do you manage the.
29:05
To get this reach and, why did you embark on this journey?
29:09
I think it has been also a very personal benefit out of it, to be honest.
29:14
My website has been there from the very beginning.
29:17
It is like my ideas test lab.
29:19
It's a place where I can write things the way I want to write, not the way
29:22
I have to in order to get it published and then you can actually push the ideas
29:27
out in a way that might sound crazy, but then you really get a lot of feedback.
29:32
You get people to come and respond.
29:36
Send me an email, send me a message, and then suddenly you.
29:39
Work on your ideas back and forth with volunteers who offer their
29:43
time, and eventually these ideas explode into something really cool.
29:46
Crowd learning.
29:47
Exactly.
29:48
So it's crowd support into my idea.
29:51
Some of them will cross and Bern, but some of them will end up to be really projects.
29:55
So I do value the feedback and many of our collaborations have actually evolved
30:00
with people who approached me through this website because they were thinking the
30:04
same or they had gone farther than I was.
30:07
Yeah.
30:07
Many examples.
30:08
And of course teaching online is also another very important parameter that you
30:12
have to spend a lot of time to understand.
30:15
We developed, the first course I developed, it was 25 years ago, and
30:20
then I realized that people, communicate and every time you communicate, there
30:25
is a, what they call a price for that.
30:27
You pay a price for any message you send and any medium you
30:31
use has a different price.
30:33
So when I talk to you right now face to face, I have to pay a cognitive price.
30:37
If I send you an SMS.
30:39
It's a different cognitive price, and if I write you a letter, it
30:43
might be a different price as well.
30:45
And this price changes also your message and your filtering and your prioritizing.
30:51
And then we realized that people sitting around a table.
30:54
We'll talk differently and communicate different things than the same
30:58
people sitting in front of a computer and chatting and all this.
31:02
I wouldn't say better or worse, different.
31:04
So you can really see where is the strength of its
31:07
medium and use it in online.
31:09
Environments.
31:11
We created a MOOC that actually had up to now more than 60,000
31:16
people completing it, for example.
31:18
Yes, 300,000 people have enrolled.
31:21
Now, this gives you an amazing insight on how people navigate this environments.
31:27
We could study the clickstream so I could study the.
31:30
Number of clicks, the sequence of clicks and the timing throughout their
31:34
time, and then thousands of people.
31:36
It gives you massive amount of data.
31:38
When you filter this, you really see the persons emerging from the data.
31:44
You see the faces almost.
31:45
You see the pattern.
31:47
You group them.
31:47
You say, oh, there is this group, this behavior.
31:49
And that helps you understand how to engineer your environment so that
31:53
each of them will find what they want.
31:55
And so you constantly use that data also too.
31:58
Improve your messaging your type of Exactly.
32:01
I would say messages that you get across different channels.
32:05
So it's a very thoughtful process on how you educate your community.
32:09
It is, and the biggest lesson I learned is that.
32:12
The more space you allow to people, the better your environment will become.
32:16
When you try to frame the pathway and say, no guys, this way, you
32:21
go here, you turn to the left.
32:22
Here, you sit here, you wait, and here you come back.
32:26
Then the less success you will have.
32:29
If you actually open up and let them navigate in their own way,
32:32
you might be much better off.
32:34
Yeah.
32:35
So there, there seem to be a very strong digital component to you.
32:37
And on the other side you have a very connecting component relations.
32:42
We spoke about this through your journey internationally, and
32:45
you are also part of the ITI.
32:47
So now you spoke about, this, let's say disruptive educational
32:51
efforts online On the other side, you are part of the IGI community.
32:56
What motivates you to be part of the ITI?
32:58
Why do you believe in this community?
33:00
I think that ITI for me right now is a very emotional connection.
33:03
It's a very strong emotional bond.
33:06
We speaking with other members and fellows, I feel that everyone
33:10
shares a similar emotional bond.
33:13
And everyone has his own reason why we entered the ITI.
33:17
But when it comes to why we stayed.
33:19
So long in the ITI then it scatters to so many different
33:22
reasons that we are not even sure.
33:24
So I entered the ITI very clearly because I got an ITI scholarship.
33:29
That was my entry point.
33:30
Before that, I wasn't really interested or knowing so much
33:34
about what exactly the ITI is.
33:36
But this scholarship, I realized it was something worth pursuing.
33:43
I started as a taker.
33:44
I took a massive.
33:46
Life changing gift from ITI with this one year of scholarship.
33:51
And I stayed, not because out of debt that I had to pay back, but
33:54
because I realized that was an amazing environment and a great opportunity
33:58
to work together with people that I admired and now they were reachable.
34:02
Face-to-face sitting together on the table through ITI.
34:06
So I think after that you develop an emotional connection
34:08
that makes this team work.
34:11
And you're super active in the ITI.
34:13
You're just not any ITI fellow.
34:15
You are now a member of the board of directors of the ITI globally.
34:19
So congratulations.
34:20
And you're also running the global education committee.
34:24
And with this there comes also the responsibility to shape the
34:27
ITI World Symposium in 2027, which will happen in Milano.
34:31
What can we expect from the ITI World Symposium 2027?
34:35
Yeah.
34:35
This is what scares me.
34:36
Huh?
34:37
You just said the word, I didn't want to hear expectations.
34:41
It's only 2027
34:42
yeah, the bar is very high.
34:45
The bar is high because we have had really two very good,
34:48
successful congresses in the past.
34:50
There was one online.
34:51
Which was actually very urgently prepared and compiled, but still as an online
34:56
event, it made a huge difference.
34:58
And then we had this amazing event in Singapore.
35:01
So now the stress of having to the bar is too high.
35:05
Yeah.
35:05
The bar is very high.
35:06
The bar is too high, but then the team is also very high.
35:09
And I, we're now selecting a very big team of people, a very diverse
35:14
team from everywhere within the ITI and also from outside the ITI.
35:18
We want to bring young blood, we want to bring established people with expertise.
35:23
We want to bring the breadth and we want to make something that will be really
35:28
different, disruptive, and will push the bar even higher for the next one.
35:33
But this is where we are and we definitely will include a lot of the topics that we
35:38
discuss today into the World Symposium.
35:41
Okay.
35:41
I think you're the perfect person to actually, think about the
35:43
disruptive next generation ITI event.
35:46
I have no doubt.
35:47
Based on your dreamer capabilities, this will be an amazing event.
35:51
Thank you.
35:51
Maybe to close this section how do you see the future of
35:55
education in implant industry?
35:58
Yes.
35:59
I think that what we are working with and what we're now doing has changed
36:04
significantly in, in the last few years.
36:08
We're moving from a model of a teacher who was the content expert and the
36:13
one who knew things and that we.
36:15
Have to stick around to, to learn from him.
36:17
And we're moving to the teacher who is the engineer of a learning environment,
36:21
who really has different tools and different experiences and is just
36:25
designing an experience that people will go in, will stay, will spend time, will
36:31
interact, and then will go out later.
36:34
Having learned we see learning as a transformation.
36:37
Not something that happens when you come to a lecture and you listen at me, and
36:41
then you have learned and you go away.
36:43
But rather something that starts and then continues with many different
36:47
stops, many different interactions.
36:49
So we are now the ones who have to engineer this environment.
36:52
That people will come, will stay, will spend time, go back, sleep, wake up, come
36:58
back again, and eventually at the end of this process, they will have transformed.
37:02
Into more competent.
37:04
That's a great picture.
37:07
Now, Nikos, we also would like to give you the chance to ask us the question.
37:11
Yes.
37:11
What would you like to know from either Andres or myself?
37:15
One question only.
37:16
Oh, yeah.
37:17
Yeah, as you are representing Straumann, I have many different questions in the long
37:22
process of having worked with Straumann.
37:24
What actually right now is a genuine puzzle that I have.
37:28
When I met Straumann for the first time 25 years ago, it was an implant company.
37:33
And it stayed an implant company for many years.
37:36
But now we're moving away from the product, we're coming into the workflow,
37:41
and now the workflow, it takes much more than just implants to materialize.
37:45
And I see that Straumann is eager to take up the challenge and try to stretch and
37:49
expand and explore new areas and become.
37:53
A workflow rather than just an implant.
37:56
And this is what really I want to know more.
37:58
How do you see yourself in the next five years?
38:02
Do you see you yourself becoming a platform?
38:06
In the way that, let's say Apple has developed a platform that
38:10
many other designers, developers, producers, will come to build their
38:14
own little shop on top of you.
38:17
Or you see a company that is having its own product line and
38:21
trying to really cover every aspect of the workflow by themselves.
38:25
That's a great question.
38:26
I give it a go and then George, I ask you to to add to this.
38:30
So first and foremost I'm also 21 years with the company and we've
38:35
been an implant company then.
38:36
And I can tell you we are still an implant company in our heart.
38:39
And this is still what drives us now.
38:42
However, we believe, there is more than just delivering great implant
38:46
componentry, researched, innovative.
38:49
To to the clinicians, this is still important and we put a lot of focus
38:53
on delivering this, but we believe, we need to help clinicians and ultimately
38:57
patients also to, to create a greater experience when they experience implant
39:03
treatments which also means, less invasive treatments, shorter treatments, less time.
39:08
That we need to invest for creating a great outcome to the patient, more
39:12
reliable, more consistent treatments.
39:14
I think there's much more than just the implant componentry,
39:17
and what we realized is.
39:19
That workflows delivering great workflows is really a mindset shift.
39:23
And we are just going through this, I can tell you as we speak and technologically
39:27
speaking, creating this platform and ecosystem that, that we are just launched
39:32
which is shoman access is a necessary.
39:35
Peace and fundamental to deliver this, if we would not have this architecture and
39:40
this ecosystem we could not facilitate, smooth workflows from data capturing,
39:46
which starts with cone beam cts then inal scanners, but then also maybe AI
39:51
driven planning processes up to having a design that ultimately you put out to
39:56
a printer that they can print something, we need to facilitate this because
40:00
otherwise it's what you said before.
40:01
You know it's a gat here and a gadget there, and someone needs to connect
40:05
them and this is super cumbersome and we need to get rid of this.
40:08
To get rid of this, we need to have this platform.
40:10
And we created this platform, but we created this platform with an open
40:14
mindset, which is super important.
40:16
Just one example, we announced also at the idea that we have a
40:19
collaboration with Carestream.
40:21
So whoever has a Carestream CBCT, this data will be seamlessly
40:25
integrated into the patient file based on Straumann access.
40:28
You don't need to upload and download this.
40:31
And on the output side, we have a collaboration as an example with
40:35
sprint trade that we announced.
40:37
And also there we will be an open system and also in between when we take AI
40:41
and you need an AI to design maybe, a guide or a crown or a provisional,
40:46
then you know it's doesn't need to be our ai it needs to be a really good
40:50
AI that helps you and the patient.
40:51
And we try to be open there because we are, I think we are very mindful
40:56
what we are really good at and, where are maybe other people bring in skills
40:59
that you know, that, that can help you treat your patients even better.
41:02
Just to build on this I think it's an illusion that in this very
41:06
broad field of infant dentistry, you can do everything at best.
41:10
So this open mindset that you actually are willing to collaborate with
41:15
people that you know are doing nothing else, for example, then designing.
41:20
World class printers or people that are doing nothing else than designing, some
41:24
Cone Beam CT and thinking day and night about how to better acquire accurate
41:30
data and have less artifacts, et cetera.
41:33
It's.
41:34
It would be a very wrong way of thinking to believe that
41:37
we can be everywhere the best.
41:38
However, what I think is the dream is that a platform will become so
41:43
central and powerful that it's like there is no question that if we design
41:47
something great for Implantology, we would like to be part of this platform
41:51
because it, it connects the people and it helps actually also to, to create
41:55
business models for diverse companies.
41:57
I. Just to extend this also on the innovation side, for me it's a very
42:01
empowering and visionary view of how Straumann tries to accomplish this.
42:06
As you said, also with the learning.
42:07
So if we are too prescriptive on telling people how they need to do their
42:12
treatment for their patients, I think it would not be the right way to go at it.
42:17
At the same time, there's also, if there is too many opportunities or let's say too
42:22
many ways to go, it's very hard to start.
42:25
And so I think there is where we could think about signature workflows,
42:29
but that these are more driven by actually the experts in the field.
42:32
So there could be a signature workflow by a specific, I would say group of dentists
42:36
that develop this and then say here it is.
42:38
This is how it works, and if you actually want to make use
42:41
of it, listen to our trainings.
42:44
So I believe that's a bit the dream and also the way how we see our
42:48
company evolving in the future.
42:50
That was a great question.
42:51
Nikos and time passed very fast, so thanks a lot for the conversation.
42:55
George, what stood out for you in the last 45 minutes?
42:59
Very clearly, Nikos, your passion.
43:00
So your passion is thank you, is very courageous on one side that.
43:04
You're trying so many new things and contagious on the other
43:07
side that I think you're winning over people with your passion.
43:11
And the other thing that I would like to say, and this also I learned
43:14
today, is that, the digital mindset is very deeply engraved in you.
43:18
And now you pair it with the thought about, okay, how can I make use of
43:23
technology for the patient's sake?
43:25
And I think that's that's a great combination.
43:28
Thank you.
43:28
Thank you very much.
43:30
You're welcome.
43:30
I like your learner mindset.
43:32
I have to say I'm very impressed by your learner mindset and you know how you
43:35
keep progressing and how curious you are.
43:37
So thanks a lot for being with us today.
43:41
This brings us to the end of this episode.
43:43
Thanks for listening in to this series of, ProTalk, please interact with us.
43:48
Best done on our Instagram account.
43:50
We are happy to have your feedback and we are also happy to receive your
43:53
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43:55
Look out for our postings on Instagram.
43:58
And with this brings us to the end and a big thank you, Nikos, for coming.
44:02
Thanks a lot, Nikos.
44:03
A great conversation.
44:04
And thanks George.
44:05
Thanks for co-hosting.