Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Tyler Robinson Is Back in Court Today as Judge Weighs Whether the Case Goes to Trial (9/1/26)

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Tyler Robinson Is Back in Court Today as Judge Weighs Whether the Case Goes to Trial (9/1/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Last month,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: we had the preliminary hearing of Tyler Robinson. And Judge
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Graff told us that he needed some time to take
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a look at all of the filings and all of
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the motions in order to decide if there was enough
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: evidence for the case that Utah has built against Robinson
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to go to trial. And he set the date for
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: that hearing for September 1st. Well, that day has arrived.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And today we're going to find out if Tyler Robinson
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: is going to trial for the murder of Charlie Kirk.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: And I think it is a foregone conclusion that he
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: goes to trial. Anything after that is up in the air, right?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We don't have all the evidence yet. I'd say that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the evidence we do have is pretty strong. But things
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: can change. How many times have we seen it? We
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: got an expert who has a new opinion. Maybe a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: new test is run. They bring some people on board,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be. One thing I can tell you
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is this. This is only the first step. And if
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: it moves on to trial, it's going to be a
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: very long road. And when we're talking about a complex
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: capital murder case, we're talking about years, not months. And remember,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: throughout this process, the government's not going to give us
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: everything they have as far as evidence goes. All we're
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: going to be privy to is what's filed and what's
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: filed not under SEAL. And if you're looking for a
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: behind-the-scenes look at what's happening, that's where you're going to
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: find it. Because remember, there is a gag order. Now,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the gag order doesn't affect regular people, not me or you,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: anybody covering the case. It affects people that are involved. Lawyers, judges,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: anybody that's directly involved in the case. But that doesn't
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: extend to commentators. That doesn't extend to family members. Unless
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: somebody is going to be a witness. And even then,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: as we saw up in Moscow... there are challenges to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: that as well. And I think that as we move
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: forward here, there's going to be a lot going on
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes because this is very complex. We just
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: talked about all the discovery that was received by the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: defense and it's on a rolling basis. So they're going
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: to get more and they have to go through every
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: piece of that. So if you think this is going
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: to happen in a week or two weeks, you're crazy.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Unless of course, Tyler Robinson decides to plead guilty. And
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I think there is a very good shot that that happens.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: He's going to get in there. He's going to talk
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: with his lawyers. They're going to get all the discovery.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: They're going to have experts come in. And if rulings
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: start going against them, like we saw with Koberger, he's
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: going to end up pleading guilty. And if he pleads guilty,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: they'll probably take the death penalty off the table. Now,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not too sure if that's something that the prosecution
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: is interested in at this point. But it would be
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: naive to think that they wouldn't entertain the idea as
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: things continue to progress. So in this episode, we have
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: an article from the AP and the headline. Judge to
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: decide if Tyler Robinson will stand trial in the Charlie
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Kirk killing. This article was authored by Hannah Schoenbaum and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Matthew Brown. A Utah judge will decide Tuesday if there's
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: enough evidence to put the man accused of killing Charlie
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Kirk on trial for aggravated murder, which would make him
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: eligible for the death penalty. And while I certainly understand
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the push for capital punishment, just remember that it's a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: harder bar to cross. It's a lot more complex, and
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: there's a lot more that goes into it. So I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: hope that the state of Utah is ready to get
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: into the trenches. The hearing in state court comes after
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: prosecutors in July spent five days presenting what they said
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: was overwhelming evidence that Tyler Robinson killed a conservative activist
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: while he was speaking at an open-air event on a
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: college campus. Well, I don't know about overwhelming, but there's
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of strong circumstantial evidence, right? I think overwhelming
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: is a bit of a push at this point. We
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: don't really know. Oh, we have some evidence, right? And again,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: that evidence is very, very strong. But we don't have
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: slam dunk evidence yet besides his admission that he did it. Now,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: of course, that is the strongest evidence that you can
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: ever get, especially when it's buttressed by a bunch of
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence as well. so I'm certainly not discounting that.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: But I'm talking about the case the government is presenting.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: As of now, we have a lot of circumstantial evidence,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and that's okay. That's how this starts. Circumstantial evidence, that's
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the framework, right? Then you build around it and on
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: top of it. The 23-year-old defendant turned himself in a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: day after the shooting at Utah Valley University last September.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: He has not yet entered a plea, and his lawyers
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: have not offered any alternative theories for Kirk's death. They
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: focused instead on blocking the case from proceeding to trial
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and trying to get the death penalty taken off the table. Now,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that are talking a bunch
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of nonsense about what's going on with this trial, with
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: this case. And anybody on either side of that argument
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: that tells you they have all the answers is lying
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to you. And that's why I find it laughable when
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: people are so sure about the nonsense they're spitting. I mean,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about millions of pages of evidence and even
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: his own defense team. have come out and said that
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: they haven't even, you know, begun to really climb that mountain.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, they've looked at some of it, of course, right?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot to go through. So at this stage,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: besides saying that I think that the evidence, circumstantial as
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: it may be, is strong, that's about as far as
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to go. Because I don't just, you know,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: trust the government. I don't just trust the authorities in
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Utah to do the right thing. At the same time, however,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think they're maliciously trying to cover this up.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and set Tyler Robinson up as a patsy. Was their
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: investigation strong? Did they step on his constitutional rights? Because remember,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I certainly didn't like Karen Reed, okay? That's not a secret.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: And I think that Karen Reed had a lot to
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: answer for. But all of that being said, there is
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: no way that I would have convicted her. The evidence
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: against her, the way it was collected, the investigation that
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: took place, how could anyone convict anybody based on that investigation?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: So for me, it comes down to evidence. I might
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: not like you. I might think you're despicable. But if
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: your constitutional rights were stepped on by the government, I'm
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: going to be on this podcast talking about it. And
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: that's because with all the power the government has to
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: ruin people's lives, they have to get it right. And
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: if they don't get it right, They deserve to be bashed.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: District Judge Tony Graff has the option to send the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: case to trial on a lesser charge of murder, which
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: carries a minimum sentence of 15 years and a maximum
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of life in prison, said Steve Burton, director of the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Utah Defense Attorney Association. Graff could also dismiss the charges
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: against Robinson, in which case prosecutors could refile them. Well,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I don't see that scenario popping up because, again, I
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: think there's enough evidence here to go to trial. Now,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that if this was all the evidence
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: we had, and I was sitting on the jury, that
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that would be enough. It most certainly wouldn't be. They're
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: going to have to defend all of this, and they're
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: going to have to put the pieces together, build the timeline,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: show us the movements, show us the phone records, show
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: us what the cell towers say. And all of that's
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: going to come into play. And as of right now,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: we just don't know all of that. A key factor
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in charging aggravated murder is whether the shooting endangered others.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Attorneys will present final arguments Tuesday, closing out an unusually
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: long preliminary and graph plans to announce his decision from
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the bench. State court spokesperson Tanya Mashburn said, and that's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: what I thought. He's had all this time to go
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: over what he wants to do, what he thinks should happen.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And I think that that decision will be rendered right
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: from that bench. He's not going to hold the hearing
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and then go back to his chambers and, you know,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: pop up a memorandum. He's going to do it from
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the bench. And that's the right way to do it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Let's get this show on the road, one way or
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the other. Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, and parents, Robert and
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Catherine Kirk, were expected back in the Provo courtroom after
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: attending in July. Arguments will likely focus on whether Utah
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: County prosecutors have enough evidence to support the heightened charge
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: of aggravated murder. And in my opinion, anytime that you're
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: on a roof and you're firing bullets at somebody and
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: there's other people around, well, you've put them in danger.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So I think aggravated murder is the right charge. But again,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, once it becomes a death penalty case,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: it becomes way more complex and a lot longer. In
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: recent court filings, defense attorneys argued that the shooter hit
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the intended target and did not endanger others. But prosecutors
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: said numerous people were within the zone of danger around
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Kirk when he was shot from a rooftop more than
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: 400 feet, 122 meters away. And look, I'm not some
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: gun guy, right? I don't know what kind of shot
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: that is. But when you listen to people that are,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: you know, involved in guns that actually shoot, they'll tell
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you that that's not that hard of a shot to make. Now,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: when this first happened, I said to myself, how the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: hell did he hit that shot? Seems a bit crazy
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to me. So I'd certainly like to learn a little
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: bit more about Tyler Robinson and the kind of training
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: that he had as far as, you know, being a
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: hunter and all of that. Sure, we've heard some of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: that stuff. But as this progresses, we're going to get
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a full profile built. And we're going to learn a
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: lot more about Tyler Robinson and what he was up
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: to prior to these shootings. Robinson also faces potential sentencing
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: enhancements if prosecutors can show he targeted Kirk for his
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: political beliefs. And look, that seems to be the obvious
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: answer here, but we still have to wait. Now that's
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: what the government told us. And I think that the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: shell casings that were engraved at least point in that direction.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: But is it a misdirection? Who knows? Again, we just
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: don't have those answers yet. And I'm not going to
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: make pretend I do. Before his death, Kirk and the
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: organization he co-founded, Turning Point USA, galvanized the conservative youth
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: vote to help President Donald Trump win a second term.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Prosecutors have argued that an engraved bullet found in the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: suspected murder weapon shows that Kirk targeted for how the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: defendant perceived his politics. The inscription, Hey Fascist, Catch, is
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: an overt political reference, they argue in court documents. A
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: handwritten note that prosecutors allege Robinson left for his romantic
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: partner read in part, I had the opportunity to take
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: out Charlie Kirk, and I took it. They also allege
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Robinson wrote in a text message about Kirk, I had
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Your Own Words more times than not, are going to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: sink your ass. Ask Richard Allen. Ask everybody who's confessed.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And people can talk about this bit of evidence, that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: bit of evidence, what holds up, what doesn't. I'm telling
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you right now, jurors, when they hear a confession, their
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: ears perk up. And I think that's what we're going
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to see here. Because there's no dispute that Tyler Robinson
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: has confessed to this multiple times. Robinson's attorneys have argued
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: that prosecutors do not have strong enough evidence to prove
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a political motivation. In July, investigators presented DNA analysis they
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: said linked Robinson to the suspected murder weapon, a bolt-action
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: rifle with one spent round and a tool he allegedly
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: used to engrave the bullet cartridges. Robinson, reported romantic partner
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Lance Twiggs, told investigators in a recorded interview that that
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Robinson said the day after Kirk was killed that he
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: wishes he hadn't done it. Later that same day, and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: only about an hour before turning himself in, Robinson posted,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: it was me at UVU yesterday, in an online chat room,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: according to investigators. And that's not good enough for some people, right?
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: He didn't do it. He's a patsy. Okay, cool. I'm
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: willing to entertain that. What evidence do you have? Can
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I see it, please? And don't tell me about Egyptian
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: plane's Israeli cell phones, or exploding microphones. Unless, of course,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you can back that up. Then, I'm all ears. Because
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: if you think I trust the government, you got another
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: thing coming. But that doesn't mean that I trust the
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: people that are pushing counter-narratives either. And why should I?
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: They're untrustworthy. Defense attorneys challenged the reliability of DNA tests
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and unsuccessfully fought against the public release of the Twigs interview.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: warning prosecutors would characterize it as a confession. Twigg said
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: in the interview that he never heard Robinson talk about
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Kirk before the shooting. So the defense is going to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: use that for sure. And they're going to try and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: say that this is all just overblown and that it
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with politics. Then, of course, the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: question becomes, why'd you kill him then? If it's not
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: about politics, if it's not about, you know, the trans
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: issue or him being hateful or whatever. then why did
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: it happen? And unfortunately, nobody but Tyler Robinson, or the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: real killer if it's not him, nobody knows. And that's
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: what this whole process is going to figure out, hopefully.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So that process truly begins today. And we're going to
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: find out one way or the other if the state
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of Utah has enough evidence to take Tyler Robinson to
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: trial for the murder of Charlie Kirk. And once Judge
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Graff has made that decision... We'll have a much better
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: feel for where things are and where they're going. And
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: like usual, we'll be here the whole entire way. All
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: in the description box.