Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / The Social Network with Bridget Todd

Transcript

The Social Network with Bridget Todd · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is Annie and Smitha and welcome to stuff.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I never told you, production I heard you, and today
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: we are once again joined by the sociable, the spectacular
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Bridgete Todd.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome Brigitte.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Thanks y'all.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: I like that you threw sociable in there, considering what
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: we're talking about.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Very clever.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you, bridget That's what I needed to hear. Validation.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Validation is key.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Well, we were just talking about how it's been a
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: little rough erro Us lately.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: But how have you been, Bridgete?
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a little rough is a good way to put it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: And I guess I feel, you know, we're in these
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: chaotic times, and amidst all this chaos, I'm trying to
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: bring an air of gratitude. And something that I'm grateful
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: for is just all the voices that make what we
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: do possible. Like, I'm just feeling a lot of gratitude
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: for every that's lent their time and their talent to
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: us over the years, and we're so lucky to have
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: gotten their voices. And I think in times of chaos,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: it's important to remember, you know, how grateful we can
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: be that people spent any time at all helping us
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: make cool things in the world.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly we are.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like we are really lucky about who we
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: work with and who we've gotten to make things with
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: and the stuff we get to make. And it's interesting
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: to me. Timing wise, we weren't. We didn't anticipate when
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: this episode was going to come out. You know, we've
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: been hinting at it for a long time, but it
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: is coming out at a time where I think we
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: need to take a fun break. I think a lot
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: of people need that kind of fun break right now.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: I would say it is a fun break, but at
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: the same time, like we're still going to talk about issues,
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: but it's way too I'm like.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, things, Yes, we are, Absolutely it's a fun break.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I guess for us very illsteners will be like, oh no, well.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: I feel like the lens through using movies as the
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: entry point to talk about things that are real or rough,
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: I think is great because your brain is like, this
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: is all fictional, even though another part of your brain
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: is like, no, this is real. You get the I
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: don't know. I don't know if other people feel this way.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: It kind of lulls me into feeling like, oh, this
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: is not scary or an upsetting even though it is real,
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: because you've got that thin veneer of oh, this is
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: a fictionalized account.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, And as listeners know, if you looked at the title,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: we are talking about the social network today. And I
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: have to say to your point, Bridget, I kept when
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I was like just writing my random thoughts and notes,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I kept referring to the like the like they were characters.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, then Mark did this or whatever.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: And it was so bizarre because I I know that's
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a real person, Mark Zuckerberg out there, but I was
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: referring to him as if he was like a character,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: which I do know.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: There is some.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Debate about, you know, how dramatized this is, you know
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: how accurate it is, But I did catch myself doing
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that several times.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: To me, Jesse Eisenberg is more Mark Zuckerberg than Mark Zuckerberg.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: At this point, when I imagine Mark Zuckerberg in my mind,
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I'm actually picture picturing Jesse Eisenberg. That's how much he
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: became Mark Zuckerberg. Or maybe is a Zuckerberg type. I
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: don't know, but yeah, they're one and the same in
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: my mind.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I wonder how he would feel about that.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: Honestly, like when for the real Mark Zuckerberg that when
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: I picture him, I don't picture the actual dweeb that
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: is Mark Zuckerberg. I picture Jesse Eisenberg, somebody who I
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: actually like, have a fondness for.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: I think has a little bit it has like charm.
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: Yes, I think this movie was very kind to all
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: of the individual people for the character with the people
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: that represented them. I was like, oh, is justin Timberlake
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: sean totally to Nope. I had a lot of questions,
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: and yes, like Jesse Eisenberg is definitely like endearing, seemingly
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: like he has this persona of being endearing. So having
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: an endearing person portray you did him favors. Even though
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: from my observation of this movie, I was like, Okay,
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: so what I'm understanding is Zuckerberg is an autistic could
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: have been in cell had he not had this route,
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: Like that's the one of But what I found out.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: The way that massogyny and I know we're going to
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: talk about it, but the way that massogyny bookens the film,
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: and that is this thread throughout even you know, obviously
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: with how Zuckerberg starts getting these ideas for Facebook, but
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: even in ways that are not connected to the digital world.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: The way that these college camp is they're sort of
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: portrayed as like misogynistic meat markets.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: We're women artist commodities. Clear. I think the movie is trying.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: To illustrate how like Zuckerberg didn't invent that, he just
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: put it online and made it scalable.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, we have so much to talk about. So
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I hope this is the first of a.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Series where we do tech movies and we have these conversations.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: I know that you have some He've mentioned before, you
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: want to talk about bridget But yes, I think this
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: is a good one to kick it off with Social Network.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to give a brief rundown of it,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and then I'll ask you if you can give a
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: brief plot description of it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: I sure can, I sure can.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So The Social Network was a twenty ten film based
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: on the book The Occidental Billionaires, which was written by
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Ben Measrick. It was directed by David Fincher and written
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: by Aaron Sorkin, and it depicted the origins.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Of Facebook, how Facebook came to be.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: So, yes, we got Jesse Eisenberg playing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Andrew Garfield playing his friend and business partner until they
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: weren't Eduardo savergn Justin Timberlake is Sean Parker, the founder
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: of Napster and a mentor to Zuckerberg and Armie Hammer
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: as the Vinkeelvols Tens twins, which I remember when this
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: came out, I watched like a special on how they
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: did his how they did the twins And if you noticed,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: one of them is usually wearing like a bandana or something,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and that's for the face scanning.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: Oh that makes a lot of sense.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, this film was a critical and financial success.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, the Library of Congress named The
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Social Network as quote culturally, historically or esthetically significant and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: inducted it into their National Film Registry of Note. A
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: lot of people depicted in the film were very adamant
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: that this was not an accurate portrayal of events. And
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I also just have to say, the kid from Jurassic
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Park who I had a crush on when.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, was in this movie.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Who is he?
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Dustin Moskowitz. He's the roommate coder. Yes, wow, I would
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: have been from Jurassic Park.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: I would have never picked that up, but also sign out.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: Of course he had a crush on that kid.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I know, so me.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. All right, So Bridget, can you run
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: down the plot for us?
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: I can. So.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: The movie opens up in two thousand and three with
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: Mark Zuckerberg. He's a sophomore at Harvard. He has just
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: gotten dumped by his girlfriend, Erica, who is fictional like
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: the Erica character that we see that bookends the film
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: is not based on a real person. He is at
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: a bar with her. He's being very dismissive and condescending
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: to her. She breaks up with him. He goes home,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: He gets drunk, and he writes a nasty blog post
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: about her, and, in a fit of bitter energy, hacks
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: into the Harvard student directories to build a site called
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: face mash to let people rate the female students in
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: all the dorms against each other. He said that he
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: was initially thinking about having the girls pictures next to
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: farm animals, but then he decided not to do that.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: That is not fictional. That is a real quote from
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: what a then.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: College sophomore Mark Zuckerberg wrote. So he ends up making
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: this site facemash. It's so popular that it crashes the
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: university servers overnight becomes a complete sensation, and it lands
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg in some campus disciplinary trouble. All of this hubbub
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: catches the attention of the twins that you just mentioned before,
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: Cameron and Tyler Winklbass and their business partner, who recruit
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg to help build out a plan that they had
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: for a Harvard only social network that they were calling
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: Harvard Connection.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Zuckerberg agrees, there's definitely a.
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: Dynamic where they are these tall guys on the Row team,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: and Zuckerberg's this big nerd, and you've got these big
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: these these big strong like men about town, like men
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: on campus recruiting, who are meant to understands like this
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: like kind of like mousey neurotic, you know, Beta to
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: use language I'm that I'm sure that they have used
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: amongst each other. So Zuckerberg ends up kind of besting
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: these two. He just sort of he agrees, He takes
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: their money to build the site, strings them along for months,
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: doesn't do any real work, and then launches his own
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: site that kind of just a very similar idea, the
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: Facebook dot com. The site explodes, Zuckerberg's best friend, Eduardo
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: becomes this co founder and puts up the initial money.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: Then Napster co founder Sean Parker, who is played by
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Justin Timberlake, breezes into their lives, instantly charms Mark Zuckerberg
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: and gradually pushes Eduardo, who up until this point had
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: been this like loyal friend to Zuckerberg, although they did
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: have some like tension, ends up pushing Eduardo out of
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: the company while pulling Facebook towards Silicon Valley and toward
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Sean Parker and the investment of Petertiel. The whole story
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: is kind of framed around these two simultaneous lawsuits. The
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: winklewasst Twins suing Zuckerberg for stealing his idea, and Eduardo,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg's previous best friend, suing him for pushing him out
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: of the company and diluting his shares down to almost nothing.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: In the end, both cases and up settling.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: The movie I said it starts with Zuckerberg having problems
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: with a woman in his life. Well that in the
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: sort of Citizen Kane reveal at the end of the
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: movie is Zuckerberg sitting alone refreshing his ex girlfriend Erica's
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Facebook page, just waiting to see if she will accept
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: his friend request and she does not, and.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: The irony is very clear.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: Facebook has five one hundred million friends, Zuckerberg doesn't have
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: a single one.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I love the ending so much.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: It's so good because he's so sad and so alone,
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: and he just keeps refreshing the page and it lingers.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: On that moment it holds, and he has this conversation
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: with Sean Parker. Sean Parker says, the reason I started
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Napster was because there was a girl I wanted to
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: get her attention. She was with someone else, and Zuckerberg
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: asked him, like, do you still think about her? Do
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you still think about that girl? And Sean Parker's like, no,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: but you've got Mark Zuckerberg who's still hung up on Oh,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: she broke up with me. He tries to have that
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: conversation with her later.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I made this website. I have you
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: seen it? Maybe you've heard of it, And she's like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: good luck with your video game.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah. That Sean Parker scene really stuck with me, he said.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: He He's like, oh, you want to know why I
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: bet a napster. The girl I loved in high school
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: was with the captain of the lacrosse team, So I
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: wanted to take her from him, So I started the
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: next big thing and he's like, He's like, oh, I
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: saw your your face smash blog. And Zuckerberg is like, ooh,
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: like that was just me, you know, playing the the
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: trolls and basements online. But Parker is like, no, no, no,
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I wasn't dismissing it. I loved it, Like, isn't at
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: what this whole thing is about?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: This is our time?
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: And I think, like it just really points to the
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: ethos of technology being that gross, childish, toxic men with
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: the misogynistic chip on their shoulder. And clearly for Parker
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: it was not even about that girl. Really, He's like,
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: I don't even think about her at all. It was
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: about the girl was just a a through line to
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: make himself feel more important than this, like Jock on
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: the lacrosse team, who he feels like best at him.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: And so I said that to say, you see how
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: how much of our current tech infrastructure is built by personal,
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: deeply personal animus and massagedy.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: M Hm, yes, I mean that the whole idea that
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Facebook started. He in the movie at least he gets
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: broken up with goes straight home, makes this based on
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: makes this being rating two pictures of two women. And
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: then there's a scene that follows, like a montage scene
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: of a bunch of college dudes like laughing and rating
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the women. And then also there there's a through line
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: we're going to come back to, but of exclusivity and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Zuckerberg really wanting to get into these private final clubs.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Let me get it right. At final clubs okay, which
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: are I don't know.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: They sound like very fraternities where you get hazed, and
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I guess they're really fancy and well known, but he really.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Wants to get into them and does not.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: But so you have a scene of those final clubs
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: where there's a bus picking up young women and the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: men are watching.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Them like strip and kiss and all of this stuff.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: And then you have like shots of women seeing face
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: mash and being like, oh, this is so pathetic, this
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: is so sad. And then you see Erica kind of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: finding out, Erica, the girl that broke up with him,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: finding out what she wrote about him and being mocked
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was a really interesting.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Like the way that montage breaks down of seeing how
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: this plays out online. Because Zuckerberg makes the point several
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: times we're trying to put a college life online, but
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: also how it is playing out in like in real
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: life in college, like outside of the internet in college.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's the scene where that you've sort of you
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: just described it where Erica is in her.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Dorm and Mark in his angry blog.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: After she dumps him, says like, oh, she may seem
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: like she's got a decent body, but she's getting a
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: lot of help from Patting and Victoria's secret two guys
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: bust into her dorm room to brake her about this,
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: shaking bras at her, and I think it really shows
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: like just a climate of casual massage, and these women
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: are existing in both online and off. But once it's
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: once that world is transferred to the digital realm, how
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: it becomes super charged. Right, And you know, Mark has
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: this line in the movie where he says, what we
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: want to do with Facebook, it's like building a Finals club,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: except we're the president.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Because in the movie you see both Mark and his friend.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: Eduardo having a lot of like rivalry, intention and anxiety
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: about whether or not they're going to get into the
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: best Finals Club. That argument with Erica at the beginning
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: of the movie It starts with her saying, you should
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: try out for the easy is to get into club
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: and he's like, what you think I can't get into
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the harder to get into clubs. And so, you know,
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: I really think that idea, that like what if we
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: use the internet to build a world that it's all
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: about the exclusivity and you know, gross parts of frat life,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: only we're in charge of it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Like that.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: I think that, Like that really is when I am
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: on Facebook or X or Instagram, I feel like I.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: He really did that really does nicely summervize.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: I think the tech landscape that we're all in now
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: it's like a finals club, except it's run by people
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: like Mark Zuckerberg. Yes.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, And he also has a line in the beginning
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: when he's talking with Erica about so condescending where he says,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you should really be more invested in this,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: and because I'm going to be opening the doors for you,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: essentially you're going to meet a lot of people because
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of me. And that just reminds me so much of
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: a lot what is going on with her a lot
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: of things, but in this instance, the tech industry is
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: you know, you can women marginalize folks. You can come in,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: but we're the ones going to open the door, and
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: you have to exist within our framework and.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: With our within our rules.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And I feel like we've just seen that at so many,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: so many lawsuits, like the lawsuit with Blizzard is one
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that comes to mind, where it feels very like you
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: can come in, but we can kick you out just
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: as easily. You need to exist only for only in
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the way we think that you should exist.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: And when we see the montage of all the different
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: guys that are around, it's like part of me is like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: these are the people she's meant to be thanking you
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: for putting her around. These guys all seem like animals,
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: you know, like these like drunk guys like hooting at
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: women to take their clothes off. I'm supposed to be like,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: oh yeah, thanks for getting me into this world.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: This is what I've always wanted.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah right.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: I found it interesting because so this is my first viewing.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: I've never actually seen it. I've only seen previews or
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: like excerpts of it. So there was a lot of
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: fascination because this is also plutting me back into the
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: beginning of Facebook, because I was in that era, was
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: I was at the beginning, remembering you had to be
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: an edu. It had to be an edu in order
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: to register into Facebook to begin with. And it only
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: really stuck with you in that university that that's the
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: only way you could get into Facebook, Like I was
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: in that era, So seeing all the beginning of this
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: and then seeing the beginning of Silicon Valley and like
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: we didn't know what that meant at that time, as
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: this was in the year of two thousand and five,
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: by the way, I found out I was older than Zuckerberg.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Got that moment and I was like, I hate everything
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: right now. I hate it. Like when you start like
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: referencing timelines, I'm like, God, okay, fine, anyway, but seeing
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: all of that, seeing it in unfold and then them
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: not exactly with us, not exactly realizing what this would
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: end to, but seeing this in an entertainment value, also
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: in the rhetoric of like Dawson's Creek era of monologues
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: or dialogues that I was like, what is what is this?
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: If that's a baby?
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is like the Auray mcmill days of dialogue
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: and conversation and characters. I was like, Wow, Wow, this
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: movie really is it? Is what's the beginning of a
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: whole new like subplot slash like ideals and plot lines
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: that would become stereotypical.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Now, it's so funny to hear you say this.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: I'm rewatching Dawson's Creek, and boy do those kids make
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: a lot of dramatic monologues in publics.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: To each other.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: But that was I don't know if you ever watched
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: The West Wing, which I loved, or The Newsroom, which
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: is like a terrible show, but I secretly I've seen
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: every episode and love it very much. But like them,
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: like in normal life, how often has someone stood up
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: on a plane and made a dramatic grand standing speech.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: In Sorcin world, it happens like every other beat.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is kind of satisfied.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Oh I love it. I love it.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: I'm such a sucker for I'm a sucker for so
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: many of the Sorkin tropes, the speeches, the walking quickly
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: while discussing something West Wing did that, it's just like
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: it's just like something in my brain. I'm like, yes,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: show me two people quickly strutting like they couldn't take
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: a minute to discuss this thing standing or like just
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: get book time on my calendar, make have a meeting. No,
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: we have to, We're so busy. You gotta like do
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: a walk and talk. I love a walking talk.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: I remember when Facebook, so I was. I was in
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: college when Facebook became big. I remember when I started
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: college before Facebook was invented, and I graduated when Facebook
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: was a thing. I was a scene kid, an alt kid,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: so I was like a MySpace girl, a live journal girl,
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: like if you were alt, those were your platforms when
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: Facebook came. I remember the girl in the dorm next
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: to me. She claimed to have been the reason why
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Facebook came to our college, because I think you had
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: to like advocate for you at this time, after all
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: the exclusive Ivy's got Facebook, you had to advocate for
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: your big public university to get it, like to have
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: for Facebook to Dane to be there. And this girl
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: who lived next to me was like, I'm the reason
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: why Facebook came to East Carolina University.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: I remember thinking it was.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: Kind of passe and that MySpace was where all the
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: cool kids were because you could put music on your
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: MySpace profile, like you could like customize your MySpace profile.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: And it's so funny how obviously myspaced did not.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Have staying power.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: You know, my Space, Tom is not the like it's
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: not meeting in the Trump White House and like disrupting
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: our democracy.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Not to say that my Space was all good, because
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: it wasn't. But it's just funny.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: How if I had to guess which one of these
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: platforms would go on to entrench itself in power, it
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: would not have been Facebook.
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, No, I had to look up because now
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: that I'm like, oh, there was a there was a
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: I guess a tier in how Facebook would allow who
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: which universities. I had to look up my school. It
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: was fairly late two thousand and four, two thousand and five. Wow,
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: we were pretty early on and we were not.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: IVY League because no Uga.
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: It was UGA, So.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: It's a really good school.
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: It was a good school, but we're not IVY League.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Come on, you like, come on.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: But like I was like, because I remember me.
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: I think I started. I think I began my account
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: in two thousand and five, two thousand and.
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: Six, Okay, I think my school was in the same
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: I just looked it up and it said ECU East
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: Carolina University, where I'm to college, A much worse school
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: than UGA. I mind, you got Facebook around two thousand
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: and four, two thousand and six, so I would have
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: been Yeah, that would have been like around junior and
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: a senior year for me.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: That sounds right.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I feel like I Facebook came out. I was never
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: on MySpace, I wasn't on anything like that, so I
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: just didn't join it, and my friends kind of got
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: on it. And then in twenty ten, two thousand and nine. Oh,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it had to have been earlier than that two thousand
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and I'd say eight two thousand and eight when I
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: went to Australia.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Whenever that was my friends made me sign up for
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Facebook so we could share pictures together.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: And I have to say that's pretty much what it's
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: remained as this since then.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: It's just where I put some pictures sometimes.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Now it's pretty much dead. That is another thing, And
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: this is kind of a transition into one of the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: next things I want to talk about is it was
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: fascinating watching this movie because now they have this whole
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: conversation about how Facebook is so cool, we can't make
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: money because it's so cool. That would ruin the vibe.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Uh, And now it's like pretty uncool.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was, you know, it was still pretty cool,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: but I wanted to talk about some of the the
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: takeaways watching it now versus when, like Bridget and I
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: saw it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I saw when it first came out.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Oh same, I was hyped for it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Are talked to the trailer.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Remember that the choral version of Rehabit It's creep, y'all
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: know if if y'all weren't there, y'all don't remember.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: I was hyped for this movie. It was.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I was so that the trailer was so arresting. I
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: must have watched the ex trailer half a dozen times.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: The tagline, you don't get to five hundred million friends
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: without making a few enemies. Like Annie and I were
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: on the same way on this one.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I would have never thought I would be at the
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: theater to see it because I wasn't like big into
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Facebook or anything.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: But I saw that trailer and I was like that music,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta go.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Which we are going to talk about the music later
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: because the music is amazing. But yes, I just wanted
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: to discuss and you know, Samantha. As a first time
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: view it might be interesting, you might have some different thoughts.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: But it was weird watching it now, especially because we've discussed.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: And in several episodes. But the one that comes to
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: mind that I.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Didn't know about people show up that I wasn't expecting
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to show up. So Larry Summers, you talked about how
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Larry Summers it's in the Epstein Files. He's a character
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: in this movie. I forgot about Peter Cheele. I have
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to say, I remembered this movie pretty well. Maybe I
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: just didn't know his name, but I was shocked with.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: That name fellow Epstein.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: But friend, it's like funny, like two different deep deep
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: collaborators of Jeffrey Epstein in the same movie or portrayed
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: in the same movie, Larry Summers, former president of Harvard,
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: and Peter Tiel.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I do think so.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: I just recorded an episode of my podcast or articles
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: on the internet about Peter Tiel and his connection Stepstein,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: and like it's just a good reminder how much of
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: the infrastructure of technology and the Internet Peter Thiel has
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: been has had his hooks in and hands in, you
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: know whenever you whenever you hear about something involving like
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: extreme as influencers or just just know that like Peter
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Teel's got his grubby little hands in there somewhere.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was kind of interesting to see in this
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: perspective of like, we don't want advertising, we don't want
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: to be that in cool, but we will take a
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: big investment from a really giant corporation.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: That's okay.
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I feel like that's one and the same
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: and this is a weird compromise except for the fact
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: that it was thought up by who.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: I'm assuming this was true, that Zuckerberg really did love
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: Sean Parker that much.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, was that true? Okay? So I can I
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: make a quick diversions.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I just love that scene so much, The scene where
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Sean Parker, portrayed by Justin Timberlake, takes Zuckerberg and Eduardo
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: out to dinner to talk about Facebook. The way that
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg just instantly is in love with Sean Parker and
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: everything Sean Parker represents so quickly, and Wardo basically watches
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: his friend just like become a narembored with this man.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: It's almost sexual. There's a scene.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: There's a scene where Sean Parker has suggested to Zuckerberg
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: to move his operations to California, and in ditch Eduardo,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg does that. In the scene where Parker is told
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: this information. They share such a meaningful char glance it
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: almost it almost seems sexual to me. I guess I'll
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: just put it that way. I'm curious what you all thought.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, fan fiction note of the episode, I have to
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: put it in here. I wasn't even looking for this.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I was not looking for this, But apparently it's a
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: pretty big ship to ship Eduardo and Mark from the movie.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: There's social networking, there's social network fan fiction.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, there's fan fiction for anything you can imagine.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: But it came up, and I was researching something completely
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: different and it came up, and I was like, this
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: must be a pretty significant ship for it to be
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: mentioned in this random article. But I bet I didn't
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: see anything about Sean Parker and Mark Zuckerberg shipping. But
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I bet he's like the one that kind of ruins
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: their relationship and then they have to get back together.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Like maybe he's the one that Mark is like a
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: flame so so attracted to that has to.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: You're making up a scenario right now, And as we
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: see here.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I've read this story with different characters. I can see it,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I can see it too.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: No, I totally see it, and I remember when Trump
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: was reelected there was this like micro moment where people
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: talked about like Mark Zuckerberg having a quote like mask
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: off moment, and I think the I think the social
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: network pushes back on that framing because I think Mark
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg is not wearing a mask.
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: He is the mask.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: I think that we see it in that scene with
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Sean Parker, how quickly he just becomes enamored. I think
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: that like people were like, wow, Zuckerberg really just fell
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: in line with Trump. I don't think that's I think
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: that Zuckerberg when when when somebody with power is standing
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: in front of him, I think that he just falls
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: in line. I think he's completely spineless, has no internal
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: morals or values or drive of his own. He is
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: entire dictated by people around him. I think that's what
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: Eduardo is seeing about his friend in like clearly in
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: that scene with Sean Parker. I think we see it
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: in how Zuckerberg falls in line with people with power
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: today in twenty twenty six as well.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: It is interesting because you note that he is found.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: He finds everyone in his age range in Harvard, in
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: that area to be inferior to him, even though they
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: are outdoing him in ways, and that makes him even angrier,
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: like Eduardo being more money and getting invited into these
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: final clubs when he is not seeing the Winkelvoss twins
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: who have come out to be Oh no, the Rowing
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: people that he feared because his girlfriend actually mentioned how
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: did want to be with a Rower? Like that was
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: that catalyst of like, oh, let me screw these people
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: over to show her these people are not better than me,
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: like these this level. But then the one person who
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: is super cool and against the systems, supposedly it compliments him.
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: That's all he had to have in order to like
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: crumble and be like, yeah, let me follow your lead
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: because like you, he, like Parker, knew how to manipulate. Yeah,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: those desperate for that type of attention.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: Exactly, And like we see the way that Zuckerberg is
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: so easily manipulated along the lines of his own insecurities.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: And in that scene I was describing earlier where Zuckerberg
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: is like, oh, I only made facemash to, you know,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: appeal to the trolls online, and Sean Parker is that no,
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: like I thought face match was good, Parker tells him,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: you know, when I started napster. I like the grown
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: ups in the room wanted to take it away from
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: me because I was one of those trolls. Like, I mean,
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: he's using language that is like we our like those
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: are our people, and now this is our time to rule.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: So I think you're exactly right, Samantha.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: That's such a perceptive point that, like the whole thing
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: is about inverting who has power. Let's take that. Let's
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: these like rich not that Zuckerberg wasn't rich, but these
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: like jock guys who get everything. Let's in divert everything
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: so that they don't have power, and we do. This
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: is our time. The grown ups aren't running it, the
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: jocks aren't running it. It is people like you and me,
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: and that's who's running it. That's what we're building a
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: system around. And that system is built on misogyny and
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: personal animis and insecurities.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, And it reminds me of your current political climate.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: It's obvious how much is run by personal vendettas. It's
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: not even being hidden of these men being like, you
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: know what you wronged me once in my opinion, and
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I am going to remember this and punish you forever.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: One of the things I do love about the ending though,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is you know, even then, he's.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Never gonna be happy. He's never gonna be happy. But
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: something else.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: That I my mind caught on watch this rewatching this
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: now is the line move fast and break things. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: that reminds me of the conversation we're having about AI,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: because I was watching some interviews with the people who
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: are behind those companies and they were saying like, oh, well,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: it's happening now, even though it's not ready, so we're
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: just gonna put it out right now, and whatever the damages,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: we don't really care. So seeing that, and the music,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: which I cannot stress enough I love it is by
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross from nine Ish Nails, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: it's like so droning and full of dread that it
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: also has like these melancholy, melancholy.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Notes and it feels like what's coming.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: The music to me feels like this is happening, This
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: is inevitable, whatever this is. And so I have to
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: quote from Indie Wire that I love. The Social Network
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: is both a thrilling, queasy exploration of how Facebook came
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to be and a searing indictment of what it would
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: inevitably become.
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that is so true. And you know, remember
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: this movie came out in twenty ten. In the twenty tens,
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: we were still seeped in a certain kind of techno optimism, right,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: Like we still had this idea like I think that
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Google their motto was still don't be evil, a model
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: they would later officially drop. I guess their motto is
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: like a little evil as okay as a treat but you.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Know, I think that this treaty you can have a
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: little you know, this.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: Movie, I think, really just cut through and gave us
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: a different peak at what ultimately would be the future.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of a lot of media about
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: technology and the climate around it was very positive at
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: this time. I think this movie came in it was like, actually,
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: the reality is gonna be something a little like that
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: sounds like a melancholy resonors or it's not gonna be
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: that positive.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Actually.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the things you said that also
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: stuck out to me and I found interesting reading reviews
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: about this movie from twenty ten, was that there's this
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: idea of you know, we're the ones in power now,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: we're the ones making decisions, were the ones deciding who
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: comes into the club what have you? And there is
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: a very kind of like nerd versus athlete vibe, And
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I love Erica's line where she says, You're going to
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: go your whole life thinking people hate you because you're
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: a nerd, but it's actually because you're.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Not all time iconic climb.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I have to say she handled that fantastically, that whole
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: breakup scene.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: She says the kind of thing that you wish you
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: could say in your head, and she actually says it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: That's a line.
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: That would haunt me until I would be thinking about
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: that if somebody laid some like that on me, I'd
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: be thinking about it on my deathbed.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Oh so good. But what one of the things
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: that stuck out to me of watching this now and
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: there's a quote I can never find it. I believe
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: it was a John Oliver stand up bit, but he
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: was basically saying, like, nerds, stop being so angry.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: You inherited the earth.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: You're like, I, I don't know why you're still having
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: all of this rage when you're the ones that are
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: controlling so many spaces and making so much money. So
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: that was kind of interesting to watch because a lot
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: of the reviews at the time were saying that this
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: movie was very anti nerd, and I didn't get that
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: take at all. I thought it was, if anything, sympathetic
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: to Mark Zuckerberg, like not too sympathetic, but more sympathetic
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: than I would think.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't think it was anti nerd.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I thought it was like, look at this poor guy,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: can't get any friends.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Sean Parker is like the nerd king
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: in this movie, who sleeps with Victoria's secret models, always
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: has drugs, always has young probably cutting it close young
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: women around. That's actually based in some rumor that is
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: not fictionalized. I cannot confirm or deny, but you could
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: do your own research there. But then in the end,
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: he also is somebody who cowers when Eduardo like like
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: goes to punch him. He somebody who has lots of
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: allergies and asthma. Like the movie, I don't. I think
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: the movie is.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Trying to show a more complex portrait.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: I do agree with you that it's that it's simp
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: that it's a more sympathetic, complex portrait than just like,
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: the nerds are bad, the nerds aren't winning, the nerds
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: are rich, the nerds control everything, the nerds are building
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: their tech infrastructure. The nerds have all the power, and
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: they're also pathetic, Like, I think that's what it's trying
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: to say.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Hey, yes, yes, I agree.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I think the I guess it's the lawyer at the end,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I feel is the most sympathetic pic.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed it at all.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: But when she's like, you're not an all, you're trying
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: so hard to be a same but maybe he is.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe he feels like he has to be.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: And you know, you put something in the outline that
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: I hadn't thought about before. How in the movie the
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: only person who is trying to get in the way
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: of this meteoric growth at all costs is Eduardo Zuckerberg's
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: good friend. And I do think it, Like I just
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: I know how we treat people who are moderating voices,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: people who are like, let's pump the brakes, let's.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Do more research. Here's research that I did showing that
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: this thing is harmful.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: How tech spaces deeply marginalize and silence at best, those people.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: At worst, they do like that that's the best typically
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: the best case scenario, if those those voices are silenced,
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: are marginalized.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: And I think we see it in Eduardo.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: I think we see the voices who have anything other
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: than move fast, break things, balls to the wall, do
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: what needs to be done when it all costs, Like
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: anybody who might present any kind of challenge to that
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: ethos is quickly labeled as a hostile enemy.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it reminds me of a lot of the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: conversations we've had about guardrails with Ai and Eduardo kept
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: being like, you know, maybe is this legal. We've got
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: to see some desist letter, like maybe just having all
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: these concerns and being completely dismissed, which I have to
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: say in the movie, at least Suckerberg does not listen
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: to anyone but Sean Parker, I suppose.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: But he just doesn't listen. He's just like on his
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: own wavelength. But it did.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: It reminded me of how we've seen that in tech
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: time and time again. Let's just don't worry about that.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: We don't need to care about that not listening.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Like I just supported recently on the scores of global
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: women's groups and adv kids begging Mark Zuckerberg and Meta
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: not to put facial recognition technology in metaglasses, basically saying
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: we already know from all this reporting about how metaglasses
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: are already right now being used to harass a rail
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: and stock women. Right, that's going that's on, that's happening now.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: If you add facial recognition technology, you are going to
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: supercharge this. This is going to be you are going
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: to be making it so much more dangerous. And like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: first of all, obviously like I don't even I don't
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: even think that you would need to be a research
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: or to show that, but just the way that like
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: I've seen this movie before, they're they're gonna do it,
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: and then they're gonna be like, Oopsie, we didn't know,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: like we need to like and it's like, no, you
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: did know, you just didn't listen.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: You did know.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: You just decided to do it anyway because you saw
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: a way to make more money and get more power.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I think I think we're just seeing the
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: same dynamic with Eduardo and Guardrails in the way that
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Meta moves today.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that relates to something else that stuck out
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: to me in this movie is when Sean Parker says
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: privacy is a time gone by, which felt so strange
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: because that was in twenty ten.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: That was such a.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Different time when it came to that, when it comes
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: to privacy and now here, because he's saying it more
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: in the sense of he was very paranoid. People are
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: following him.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: You know, somebody planted the cocaine. It wasn't mine.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: How the coke get in there?
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was Eduardo or maybe it was Zuckerberg?
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know. At the end, they make a very
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: compelling case.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, But you know that idea of Zuckerberg
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: hearing this person he idolized, having this, you know, privacy
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: is a time gone by. They're going to be trying
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: to destroy you, trying to find anything to destroy you.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: And then him having this company that just a rote
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: all of those privacy protections for everybody.
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it erodes privacy protections and figures out a way
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: to turn people's data into a commodity that they benefit
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: from and profit from. Like the scene early on when
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: somebody comes up to Zuckerberg and he's like, do you
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: know if so and so from your such and such
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: class has a boyfriend? And he's like, it's not like
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: people wear a sign around their neck that says single
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: or married or taken or interested and he's like, oh
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: wait a minute, I should invent that and then I
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: would profit from it. Like privacy, I agree with John
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: Parker's assessment, like privacy is dead and people like Mark
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg and John Parker have figured out a way to
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: cash in from the intimate parts of people's of who
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: people are, Like it's dead because they broke it to
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: make money off of it.
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: I did find it interesting because they try to portray
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: Sean Parker as if he was just completely paranoid about
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: these are the things are happening, And I'm like, actually,
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: now that I'll look at it, if I had watched
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: it then I would have thought he was paranoid. Watching
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: it today, I was like, no, it was probably true.
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: Part of that was probably true.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: They probably really were watching you, to be honest.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think he was mean. I mean, cocaine
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: does make you paranoid.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Right, I think he completely wrong.
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's I don't think what's the X
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Files quote? Like, it's not paranoia if they actually are
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: out to get you.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Is that it?
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: Like?
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, looking back, knowing where we are today, without like
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: twenty ten, I would have not guessed this is where
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: it would be like this is a sixteen years down
• 43:35
  Speaker 5: the road of like, wow, this is progressed in such
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: a way. And looking up Sean Parker because I was like,
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: what's he up to today? Turns out he's an AI. Yeah, Like,
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: I'm like, he really jumped into everything. He jumped into Spotify,
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: he jumped into all these things knowing that Yeah, like
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: he knew things were coming and he understood the groundwork.
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: But seeing all of this from that perspective to this
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: and then also linking to them, like were they all
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: on the Epstein List? Yes, because that group knew who
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: these kids were going to be at that time and
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: who was going to be able to control what. On
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: top of when they had that conversation about Victoria's Secret,
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: I thought that was a really interesting tidbit, not only
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: because like they were marketing off of like the bodies
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: of women, but because this corporation took something and made
• 44:23
  Speaker 5: it be like not a big deal into something giant
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: that grew into this network that became really insidious behind
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: the scenes, and they're all linked together. It's such an
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: like mind blowing moment.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, seeing that.
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: Say the past speaking of Victoria's Secret, Uh, the person
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: who was briefly mentioned at that scene when Parker is
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: talking about Victoria's secret Lex Wexner. Guess who le Lex
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: Wexner gave a significant portion of this operations to run
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein, including limited.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: To a girls store.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: So when you talk about the ways in which these
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: guys really did design what it meant to like the
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: like what what my girlhood felt like looked like what
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: I existed?
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: And that's I mean, like.
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I cannot, I cannot overstate the level to
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: which exactly as you said, it is a connected network,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: like you know, your Teal's funding it, Jeffrey Epstein's funding.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: It's it's like it's like they're all connected. And you
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: know when we when when people say things like, oh
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: we need to like you know, like all of this
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: toxic stuff is baked in. This is what we mean.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: In my opinion, there is no reforming this. We need
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: to the only way, like we got to tear this
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: system down because all of these things are are built
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: in by intention from the very beginning. So when I
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: say that, I feel like sometimes it sounds like, you know,
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: just a grand stand, but this is what I mean.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: I mean it very literally, like.
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: When you look at the names that are being dropped,
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: and you look at the circles that they are in.
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: How they brought people in, who invested what to create
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: this thing. Literally they have Victoria's Secrets, where they have
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: the models, where these models are kind of filtered out
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: to these young people who were like I've always dreamed
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: of dating a model like it, like came into a
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: network of like what is happening on top of the
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: fact of creating young girls mindsets with these companies like
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: Limited to, Africom, Briam Fitch and Victoria's Secret, we were
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: very heavily influenced by what this was femininity and this
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: was also being a successful woman is to be in
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: these types of clothing, to look like these types of people.
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: That was created by groups that also funded this and
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: are who are now in charge exactly.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, another thing that we've been meaning to talk about
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: this in an episode for a while. I don't think
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: it's news to anybody, but is the kind of you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: the male super genius who is an athlete. You have
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: to let him be in it because he's a super genius.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: But not always like a lot of times, there's a
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: lot of mythos of that and even even if there isn't,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I just don't think we should allow assholary.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Against like people you work with, people.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Who work for you, just because you are a genius.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: This is one of my biggest pet peeves in media,
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: how often we have normalized the idea that if somebody
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: is good at something, they get to treat others like crap,
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: and that, oh, well, treating people like crap is actually
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: why this cool thing happened. No, you can make good
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: stuff without you don't have to be an asshole. And
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I and it's also very gender, because the resource is
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: very clear that we're much more likely to tell men
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: that they are geniuses and then women.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: And so it's like.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: Who gets to just who gets to like who gets
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: the runway to treat people like crap? And then it's
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: it's just fine if the thing they're making is important
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: to it makes a lot of money, or it's a
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: really good movie or a really good show. You know,
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: I agree with you, Annie. I think that we've had
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: so much media portraying, you know, these delicate male geniuses
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: as people who shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: want if it means that they build things that are
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: good I don't agree. I think I think that's a
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: I think that's like that that sentiment has done a
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: world of bad even if perhaps it is like also
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: maybe like lent itself to like a really good movie
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: or something or a really cool platform.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also a lot of these uh tech companies
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: don't actually make money or haven't made money yet.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: So but we're like, oh, yeah, no, he's a genius.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: He knows and I'm like, does he I don't know,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: we should be giving him that like blank blank check.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 48:56
  Speaker 7: Oh.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: One of the other things I just briefly wanted to
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: touch on is does succeeding in a capitalist economy at
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: this level necessarily involve backstabbing your friends or using people
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: only for.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: What they offer you?
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like Zuckerberg in this movie is very
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: much I can use you for this and then I'm
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: going to drop you.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I can use you for this and then I'm going
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: to drop you.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And he has this whole he wants to be cool,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: he wants Facebook to be cool and exclusivity vibe.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: But I don't know.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: There was just something about how I saw that in
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: all of his relationships, whatever they might be, of you
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: know what, I'm going to get what I need out
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: of you, and then I'm going to drop you because
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Facebook is my life and that's it.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: He certainly did it to Cheryl Sandberg in my opinion.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: You know, Cheryl Sandberg came on as the first ever
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: COO at Facebook. She came on at a time when
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: there was a lot of bad press, a lot of
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: bad behavior, a lot of wrongdoing, and the sense was, oh,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: we were bringing in a woman to sort of be
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: the adult in the room for Mark, and Mark got
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: a lot of cachet out of that of like, oh, well,
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: don't worry about my erratic decision making and erratic behavior
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: and like bad business practices. There's a woman around who
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: is supposed to be helping.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: When when Cheryl so like she came.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: To Facebook with like so much fanfare, she wrote lean
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: in it was like the book that was supposed to
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: be a defining book of like what it meant for
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: women in the workplace, YadA, YadA, YadA. Cut to her
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: leaving Facebook with hardly even a peep. There was like
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: very little fanfare. And then in the earlier in the
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: early days of a second Trump administration, Zuckerbergh completely threw
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: her under the bus. He met with the Trump minises
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: and said, oh yeah, all of that content moderation and
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: fact checking and diversity stuff.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: I wasn't into any of it. All of that stuff
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: was Cheryl Sandberg, you know how women are.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: And there was a little bit of like pr dark
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: arts where she were like he made a Facebook post
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: about like, no, actually we respect Cheryl Sandberg didn't walk
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: back any of the things that he said about all
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: that stuff being quote her fault. But it just goes
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: to like he is somebody who will when he needed
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: to signal to people that the company had a woman
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: in charge who was a grown up who was moderating him.
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: Cheryl Sandberg was his rider or die when the tide
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: turned and Trump wanted, you know, there to be less diversity,
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: less inclusivity, less guardrails, he threw her under the bus
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: so quickly. And so I think if you asked Mark
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg that you should be using people only for what
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: they offer you, and people who are in his orbit
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: should understand that that runway is very short.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: That is not what I believe.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: I think that you if he wants to be cool,
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: I don't think ditching your friends is cool.
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: But I also do think like I'm not.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: Even really sure how to describe this, but like we
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: are in a time today where acting like this has
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: been rebranded as cool. When I was coming up, the
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: cool kids step by their friends. The cool kids had values,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: they had morals, they had backbones. I think today what
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: we've repackaged as cool and sold it to a generation
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: of young men and boys is you are a lone wolf.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: You are in alpha, money over everything, your success over everything.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: You are not part of a community. You don't even
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: need to think about stuff like that.
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: The only him that matters is cash and power, and
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: so like, I guess I hate to say it, but
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: I feel like Mark Zuckerberg was kind of on the
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: upswing of this wave of that new sentiment that I
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: do think is very is very.
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: Commonplace today. I guess does that make sense.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, I completely agree.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: One of the things I was thinking about when I
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: was rewatching this was.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I think the first because.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: You can, you can like join Facebook and not know
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: who Zuckerberg is, especially in the early days, so I
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: didn't know who he was. But I think the first
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: time I heard about him was some news piece about
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: how he I don't know, war sandals at a meeting
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: and like war t shirts and it was like, Oh,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: he's changing the game, and like it was such a
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: look at him.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: He's a maverick and that has stuck.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about how, you know, in Silicon Valley
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: now it is kind of the the office has got
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: a slide, and like it's a very the impact he had.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I think of that mentality of that kind of I'm
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: an I'm a lone wolf, I'm an alpha. I think
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: has had a really lasting impact and you can see
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: it reflected in a bunch of other companies.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, And I think it's important to note like
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: who kind of gets away with that? Because I don't
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: think if I if I if like a founder that
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: looks like me rolled in wearing a bonnet, I think
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: they might feel very differently about it. But even look
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: at people like Elizabeth Holmes, she very intentionally styled herself
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: to look bad like she This is a known thing.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: She intentionally styled her hair to look undone, to single,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: to people like, Oh, I'm the kind of founder that's
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: way too busy focused on my business to worry about
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: things like brushing my hair or proper hair care and
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: so you see how like this just becomes another piece
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: of artifice to build your mythos around, Like that scene
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: where Zuckerberg shows up to a hearing in pajamas or
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: something or like sweats.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: I think it's like it.
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: Just becomes they're they're, they're, they're like, oh, this is
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: my I'm miss being my authentic self, but not really,
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: You're actually using this as a kind of artifice or
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: co to signal something to others about you.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: So like it's not even.
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: Any more authentic than somebody who wears a suit to
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: signal that they're a professional.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, because this whole thing was like I'm
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: breaking thro roves, I'm a maverick exactly, but you're not
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: really breaking through.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: You are the whole thing now.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: Well, he also had to make sure he had to
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: some the authority in some way and like being that
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: like his whole speech about I'm not paying at interest
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: to you. I'm giving you the minimal attention that I
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: have to because I'm here, but understand, I don't want
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: to because I think you're irrelevant. I think this is irrelevant.
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: As well as the way he dressed. This is not
• 55:38
  Speaker 5: this is all for show and I'm better than y'all.
• 55:41
  Speaker 5: Like this is that continuation of having to prove himself
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: beyond his like making sure that he's meeting his worth
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: and meeting their worth, and he needs them to know
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: where they stand because he's so insecure, like this level
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: of understanding of who he is, because he has to
• 55:59
  Speaker 5: establish himself somehow and this is the only way he
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: can have power.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: We still see it today in hearings when when Zuckerberg
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: is like called before senator or Congress for inquiries and hearings.
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: I think that it is that exact personality dynamic where
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: I'm better than you, I don't have to answer to you.
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: I have seen him try to moderate that, because that
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: I think that really is who he is. He really
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: does think that he's better than everybody, smarter than everybody,
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: should not have to Why should he have to answer
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: to anybody? Why should he have to answer about people
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: that he's harmed, women and girls that he's harmed. Why
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: should he Why who are you to be asking him questions?
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: You know, you're just a senator. But and I seen
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: I've seen in hearings, in my opinion, him trying to
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: moderate what I think is his natural inclination toward disdain
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: for others.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, on his side.
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: Note there was a random moment of like that popped
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: up as an Asian person. I'm not gonna as an
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: Asian woman specifically. I want to very much notice this
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: because in my mind I thought Brenda Song, who plays
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: one of the girlfriends in the character Eduardo's girlfriend, I
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: thought she was actually the wife that Mark Zuckerberg eventually marries.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: Oh Sean Zuckerberg.
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: Yes, I had no idea who she was because I'd
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: never seen the movie. I just knew there was an
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: Asian woman in there, and I really thought this was
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: gonna be the revelation of like his wife. But then
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: the conversation came in about how Asian girls who can't
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: dance like nerdy Jewish boys, they are like attracted to
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: each other, and then all these things that I was like, Oh,
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: what is happening, And then knowing later on that Mark
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: Zuckerberg does have an Asian wife that I'm like, there's
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: something odd in this conversation. I don't know what Sorgan
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: was thinking and putting this specific scene and then predicting
• 57:49
  Speaker 5: like he get married to this Asian woman, who, by
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: the way, is this philanthropist as well as a pediatrician.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Like, what the hell, I'm so glad you brought this up.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: And I feel like the is trying to say something
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: or do something as it pertains to Asian women. What
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: are your thoughts on how Asian women are portrayed in
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: this film?
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: Well, obviously between her being super crazy as he notes
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: and she sets fire to his bed essentially, and then
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: also that they are so fetishized by a whole community,
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: which I had gotten that line from a Jewish dude
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: one time.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: That tends that to me.
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: I kind of was like, what, I've never heard this?
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: Is this your pickup line for me? Because I gotta
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: go like this. It was a weird moment. But now
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: that I've seen this movie, I'm like, oh, maybe that's
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: where he got it from. I don't know. But all
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: of that to say is like it felt very much
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: like in this realm of worlds like there is first
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: of all, women are not respected in any way. There
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: are secondary characters, obviously the secretary. We saw that with
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: a girlfriends with the groupies as they called them, and
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: then with a girlfriend like all of these things and
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: even and from partson rec was her real name, Rashida Jones.
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: Thank you on the Rashida Jones. Even her placement, even
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: though she was a little more significant, there were all
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: their secondary characters to fulfill this narrative that the men
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: were all in playing for power. That it was interesting
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: of course, like there would be a fetishized person but
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: immediately had to be an Asian woman, and I felt
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: like it was targeted, but I get like I can't
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: really grasp it, but I obviously very much noted it.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: That was my sense to Honestly, as much as I
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: love this movie, I think the movie. I think the
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: movies handle the thread of race only really like like
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: other than Asian women like racist. I mean, race is
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: present because they're all like upper across white folks and
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: it's certainly very exclusive to non whites, but the only
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: real way that race is handled is through these Asian women.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: And I think it was a little clunky, Like I
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: think I think that like they're going for something and
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: I don't think it was fully explored, so which just
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: comes off this like what are they trying to say here?
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: It really was like that very throwaway line, the very
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: throw away care that it was just kind of like
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: what is what is is this supposed to be a
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: joke in this movie at the expense of these women?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I yeah, and I wasn't.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that About Mark Zuckerberg, I actually was
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: going to ask about his current relationship status to bring
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: up a Facebook term. I didn't know. It is interesting
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: to me that that was the thing that when he
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: heard Justin was the one who asked, you know, do
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: you know that if this girl is single? That's when
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Mark had the idea of like, oh, we'll add relationship
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: status and that's when it's done.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because that, yeah, it is.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is a big part of college life.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: But just to go back to that hole, this was
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: rooted in misogyny.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: But it's also interesting because they also hit on the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: point that they became descriptors the huh Facebook me Facebook
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: called like I'll friend you like you were so excited
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: bout that, and then also that whole like why is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: your sat as single? And that was such a big
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: deal at the beginning of Facebook, like to say your
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: Facebook official. Yes, it's relevant, it was relevant.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: Did you ever do the thing where you became like
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: I'm like in a relationship with a friend of yours?
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Or a buddy of yours. For some reason, it is complicated.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Once I'm wanting to see what it would do you did?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's complicated. There was no one there.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: It's complicated.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I'm Singley's Fair.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: It's actually not complicated. But yeah, but yeah no, And
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: did you do this, Bridget?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Did you do?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: This was like a I don't know why, it was
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: like you would you would become in like a complicated
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: you could because like you can also tag a friend
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: or will be like Bridget Todd is in a complicated
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: relationship with such and such, Like I would do that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: with my friends for some reason, I don't know why.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: I don't even ask me why, but like to your point,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: I do think the movie. One of the undercurrents of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: the film is how just how much of just like
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: you were saying, Sam, the how we understand and talk
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: about digital relationships and behaviors was started by Facebook. Like
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: this is a small a small scene, but it really
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: stuck with me. While all the lawsum stuff is going on,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: Zuckerberg is still in school at Harvard and he's trying
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: to prep for an art history final, and he does
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: it by starting a Facebook group as an with an
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: alias posting pictures and then asking people to comment, and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: he's like, oh yeah, I just pop in every now
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: and then and leave an insidiary comment to stir the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: pot to keep the conversation going.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: And I feel like that.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Really mirrors our current tech landscape, where you know, insidiary
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: content gets better engagement than other types of content thoughts
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: and like conflict. The entrepreneurs are able to just like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: manipulate people into giving engagement to these platforms and just
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: you know, putting money in people's pockets.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: I'm like, it's such a small thing, but.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: That one little seed would go goes on to be
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: a significant part of the experience of being online today
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six, which is fascinating to me.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Also side don't I don't know if your colleges were
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: like this, but the one I went to were very
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: clear that if you invented anything at the college while
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: you were.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: A student, they owned it.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: So really, yes, absolutely so.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: So that makes sense.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people came up.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: The only thing, I mean, the only thing that came
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, I invented some unique ways to smoke weed
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: out of devices and some interesting water pikes.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: East Carolina University, Oh no, oh no, I'm interesting.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: Paraphernalia and other devices for debauchery were definitely invented.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: They got the rights.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: No, bridget, I'm curious, Uh just briefly, because I know
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: you have worked with Facebook. How is it watching this
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: movie as somebody who's kind of worked with them?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, what a good question. I would say much to like.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: My work with platforms was like meeting with them and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: being like, your platform is harming women in XYZ kind
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: of way.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: There's a better way to do it.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: What do you say some platforms would be more of
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: a receptive than others. I would say Facebook was. Actually
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: this was before Elon Musk bought Twitter. Now Elon Musk
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: or ex is definitely the world would be the worst.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: But like back then, I would say Facebook was the
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: most challenging because all of this stuff is really entrenched.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: Like they would take the meeting, they would like listen
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: to the presentation and all of that, but like nothing
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: really ever got done.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: And I guess it was.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: It's I don't want to sound too cynical, but I
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: do believe that like Facebook is a platform where they're
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: just not they're just they just don't think about this
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: The same way that you or I mightn't.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: I don't think that they you know, and like when
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: you take taken it back to the way the company
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: was founded in the origin, it's no surprise that they
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: are so hostile to even the implication that their platform
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: should be a place that is not hostile to women,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Like I think that, like, it's not. It's just not
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: terribly surprising to take it back to the origin and
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, yeah, well this is there's this is
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 4: like their bread and butter. Why would they want to
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: make a space that's not hostile to women?
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Right right, Well, we could go on and on. I know,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: are there any like final thoughts you wanted to share a.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: Bridget Well, I'm really excited about the sequel, Yes, the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: Social Reckoning. I did read this, so I've been calling
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: it a sequel, but I read that Sorkin has described
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: that as a companion piece rather than a sequel, and
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: it's I do feel like the Social Network is the
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: seed that was planted, where like, hey, these guys are
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: all massive misogynists, and I'm hopeful that the Social Reckoning
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: will be like the flower that blooms because it's really
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: according to Sorkin, it really focuses on Facebook whistle blower
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: Francis Hougen, who we know revealed so much about how
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: Facebook knowingly harmed women and girls based on the twenty
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: twenty one Wall Street Journal expose the Facebook files, and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: so if the social network is like Zuckerberg really was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: a misogynist to his personal animists and difficulties with women
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: led him to build Facebook. I am hoping that this
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: movie is like and here's what that meant.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: Here's what that.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: Means for your daughter, Here's what that means for your
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: the women and girls in your life today.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when you told us that that was the topic
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: they were going to be handling, I was like.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's gonna be intense.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: You're definitely gonna have to come back for that, Bridget
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: when we have our reactions.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: Oh yes, go ahead and put it on your calendars.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: The movie's coming out in October, so I will be back.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, perfect, perfect, Well, thank you so much. This was
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: so much fun.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to continue this series. We'll come up
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: with a good name for it. But you know, movies
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: about tech. It's gonna be fun. Because this also was
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: kind of the start of like a lot of the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: shows and movies around Silicon Valley.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot for us we could tackle.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the good listeners
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: find you?
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: You can listen to my podcast there are no girls
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: on the internet. You can find me on Instagram at
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Bridget Marie DC and on threads also at Bridget Marie
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: and DC Bangzuckerberg.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: It is always so strange, isn't it when we do
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: these episodes and then at the end of yeah, you
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: can find me on there. Yeah, well, thank you so much,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Bridget listeners. If you would like to contact us, you can.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Hello at stuff Weenever Told
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: You dot com. You can find us on blue Sky
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube. If
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: we have some merchandise a cot bureau and we have
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: a book you can get wherever you get your books.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Thanks as always for the help this week from Casey
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: and to our executive producer Maya, and thanks to you
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: for listening. Self Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: out the appear Radio app Apple Podcasts or where you
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows,