Latest / San Joaquin Sound / Willie Cantu Part 3: From Buckaroo to The Avant-Guarde - Bakersfield, Toronto, San Francisco, and Nashville

Transcript

Willie Cantu Part 3: From Buckaroo to The Avant-Guarde - Bakersfield, Toronto, San Francisco, and Nashville · San Joaquin Sound

0:00
You know, we just got back from Japan a little
0:02
while ago, and we cut a live album over there.
0:04
Willie and I did a thing that features Willie
0:06
and I, and Willie and I really do like it. It's
0:11
called the Tokyo Polka, and it goes like this.
0:13
Willie, are you ready? Are you ready, Willie?
0:16
Are you ready, Willie? This is the San Joaquin
0:28
Sound Podcast, the podcast about music in Bakersfield
0:32
and the surrounding San Joaquin Valley. I'm your
0:35
host, AJ Rodriguez. This is part three in a series
0:40
of three episodes. They were all recorded over
0:44
the past couple months over the phone with Willie
0:47
Cantu, the drummer in Buck Owens and the Buckaroos'
0:51
classic lineup in the 1960s. Part one covers
0:56
his time growing up in Corpus Christi, Texas,
0:58
and eventually joining the Buckaroos, and some
1:02
of his first experiences as he moved to Bakersfield.
1:05
Part two covers his time with Buck Owens and
1:09
the Buckaroos, touring the world and recording
1:11
hit after hit. Part three covers his exit from
1:15
the band and his subsequent journey in studying
1:18
a bunch of other types of music, like Ghanaian
1:21
drumming and Scottish pipe band drumming, and
1:24
even opening for Alice Cooper. How did you end
1:28
up leaving the band? Well, I got in my car and
1:31
just drove away. Instead of west, I went east.
1:38
I guess I could say why. Well... My first wife
1:43
and daughter are Canadian, okay? She didn't like
1:48
living in Bakersfield at all, and so she had
1:53
been living in Toronto for about a year because
1:59
we had split up. My last year in the band, my
2:03
wife being Canadian, she preferred being in Canada,
2:06
and we had split up for different reasons. We
2:11
already had our daughter. And so they were both
2:14
up in Canada. And I was still touring with the
2:19
band. And that last year, I think I pretty well
2:23
was on my last lap of being with the band as
2:28
much as I enjoyed it. I couldn't see a future
2:32
for me in just doing that year after year. And
2:36
I must say that by that last year that I was
2:41
in the band, his music had started changing,
2:45
which was good. I enjoyed that because I was
2:48
doing more than just playing the way I was playing
2:51
when I first joined the band. And I was part
2:54
of that progression. He was developing a different
2:57
sound, and I was really part of that because
3:02
of... the rhythm backing was changing for his
3:09
songs, meaning I was no longer just playing cross
3:14
-stick and the hi -hat as the main propellant
3:18
for the music. Yeah, when you listen to the Live
3:23
at Carnegie Hall album versus the Japan live
3:26
album, your drumming is just way different. Well,
3:30
that's because we... Live at Carnegie Hall was
3:34
kind of the end of that style. You know, we had
3:38
been playing that way and really refining what
3:42
we did up to that point. But what year was that,
3:46
66? Can you think? Yeah, it was 1966, the Carnegie
3:53
Hall album. And that was what, around summertime?
3:57
It would have been recorded March 25th, 1966.
4:03
Anyway, after that, I think maybe some changes
4:07
had started and his songs were different. And
4:11
through that year, things really started changing
4:15
a lot because 67 is when we went to Japan, right?
4:19
Yep. It was recorded in January 1967. I'm not
4:24
sure the date. Okay, that was the Tokyo date.
4:26
So by then, things had really changed a lot.
4:33
So, and if you listen to some of the recording
4:37
albums that came out, you can tell the changes
4:42
that were happening stylistically and rhythmically,
4:47
his songs and what I was doing with them. And
4:51
he wanted that. He didn't say, can you change
4:59
this or that? It just happened. kind of organically
5:02
in a sense, because with the different songs,
5:06
I would hear maybe a different type of rhythm
5:09
or maybe play brushes, play a slightly different
5:13
rhythm than just a basic shuffle. I can't explain
5:17
it. You just need to listen to those last two
5:21
years, late 66 and 67, to hear what changes were
5:26
happening. At one instance, Buck brought in,
5:30
invited... James Burton, the guitarist, to come
5:34
in into one of our sessions to add a different
5:38
flavor to a particular song. And not only James
5:43
Burton, but also the drummer that James Burton
5:46
played with in Ricky Nelson's band. His name
5:49
was Richie Frost, I believe. Buck brought him
5:54
in to do just one song. to see what they brought
6:00
to the song that Don and I would be able to pick
6:04
up and make it our own version of that. And so
6:11
that's what started or became one of the changes.
6:16
I think Buck knew that once we were exposed to
6:22
a different way of expressing a particular song
6:26
or his songs, that we would kind of run away
6:28
with it. And we did. I mean, I can remember I
6:36
always wondered if maybe I was playing too much.
6:43
I did a lot of experimentation with my right
6:48
foot, the bass drum, which wasn't recorded at
6:52
all. It later became known as the kick. It's
6:57
always been the bass drum. That's the mother
6:59
drum of the drum set. Also, Vietnam was happening,
7:04
and I had already gone for a physical and passed
7:09
it a couple of years earlier. And I didn't know
7:14
if I was going to develop from that. In maybe
7:17
summer of 67, I guess, I got a letter from my
7:23
draft board telling me to report somewhere. My
7:27
wife, who was up in Canada, found out about it
7:30
because she was in close touch with a couple
7:33
of the wives in the band. So I guess that's how
7:35
she heard about it. So she decided, this is what
7:39
I found out later, was that she didn't want my
7:44
daughter to grow up without a dad. So she took
7:48
it upon herself without me even knowing. She
7:51
got in touch with my draft board and had me reclassified,
7:55
which there was no problem. and her doing that.
7:58
Next thing I know, I've been reclassified. I
8:02
got a notice on that. I found out why. The orders
8:05
were that I had to go move to Canada and be with
8:10
them. So I quit the band like about, you know,
8:14
August of that year and started preparing for
8:19
making the trip to Canada. It took about a month
8:23
before I got my car together. I rebuilt the engine
8:26
in my sports car and got just in better shape
8:29
than it had been. And just took care of things
8:32
there in Bakersfield in preparation for my move
8:35
to Toronto. Before I left Bakersfield, I went
8:39
to this outdoor concert at a park that Buck and
8:43
the band were doing. And it was really strange
8:46
hearing the band from a distance on the outside.
8:50
because I wasn't in the band anymore, and noticing
8:54
that the drummer, I'd never met the drummer before,
8:56
Jerry Wiggins, and he had to fit into my uniform.
9:02
And I'm sure he went through the same changes
9:08
that I went through, having to wear somebody
9:11
else's uniform before me, you know. And he was
9:15
a little heftier than me, and so... I noticed
9:19
that he couldn't button his jacket because his
9:23
stomach was sticking out. And I said, I kind
9:29
of did a double take because at a distance, it
9:32
was almost like I was looking at myself. Yeah.
9:35
The big difference was that Jerry, he wore a
9:40
part on the opposite side, his hair, you know,
9:46
was parted differently than I did. Mine was on
9:50
the left and his was on the right, his part.
9:52
But I kind of had to take a double take because
9:56
I thought, how can that be me up there? It was
10:00
just weird. And then I realized that it really
10:04
wasn't me and it was somebody else that kind
10:07
of resembled me. And also he was playing the
10:12
hi -hat with his left hand, of which I'd never
10:16
seen that before. And usually drummers, later
10:22
on I found out, that were maybe left -handed,
10:26
they would learn to play the drum set up like
10:30
a right -handed person would play. But instead
10:33
of crossing their right arm over to the left
10:37
side to play the hi -hat, they just played it
10:40
with the left hand. They were able to lead with
10:43
the left hand and played the snare drum or the...
10:47
cross stick with the right hand. So that was
10:50
really weird seeing this. But it sounded good.
10:55
And so I stayed there for part of the show. And
11:00
I don't think I even waited till the show to
11:03
end. You know, I just started feeling weirder
11:06
and weirder. And so I just left. And that's the
11:10
last time I saw the band. I had already said
11:12
my goodbyes to them, you know, probably a month
11:15
earlier. And so it's important to know about
11:21
how I got to Bakersfield to begin with. And my
11:27
years with the band, which were some of the best
11:32
years of my life. But there was other music to
11:38
kind of investigate and develop through the years.
11:44
And then I was on my way to Toronto. Well, before
11:48
I got there at the crossing, which was at Niagara
11:52
Falls, I found out that I was going to need a
11:56
green card in order to move to Toronto. So I
12:01
could go there, but I just couldn't work. So
12:05
I went to Toronto, and then I decided... And
12:11
through my first wife's help, she happened to
12:14
know someone in Buffalo, New York that I could
12:18
get in touch with that was in the music business
12:21
and could possibly help me get some work as a
12:25
musician. And so I decided after a week or so
12:29
of being in Toronto that I would go back to Buffalo.
12:32
and get in touch with this person and see what
12:36
I could do about finding work for a month or
12:38
two until my green card came through. And so
12:41
that's what I did. I lived in Buffalo. I found
12:45
some people that were very friendly towards me
12:48
at this radio station that this particular person
12:52
worked at. And they offered me assistance by
12:57
putting me up with their family at his home.
13:01
And the next step was, how was I going to survive?
13:05
So I had never done anything else other than
13:08
just play music. But at this point, I just needed
13:11
work, period. So the first thing he suggested
13:13
is go to Manpower. I had never heard of Manpower,
13:16
but I said, well, I need to make some money,
13:19
so take me there if you know where this place
13:22
is. And it was one of those temporary employment
13:25
type of agencies where... People showed up early
13:30
in the morning looking for work and notices would
13:35
come in that this company or that company needed
13:39
a helper or several people as workers. Like another
13:44
type of gig work, huh? Yeah, but first I had
13:48
to get somewhat of a uniform, matching pants
13:51
and shirt, you know, and like actual work clothes.
13:58
So I got that and I went out with the rest of
14:01
the crew and we did odd jobs, you know, during
14:06
the day. And so I ended up going to this company
14:12
for about a month. And during that time, I did
14:16
a lot of different odd jobs, you know, whatever
14:20
there was a call for. So out of the last two
14:22
weeks I was there in Buffalo, I ended up working
14:25
with a gentleman. that did heating and air conditioning
14:30
repair, and so he needed a helper for a couple
14:34
of weeks, and so that's what I ended up doing
14:37
before I moved to Toronto, you know. That's how
14:41
I passed that month and a half or so that I was
14:44
there, and it was already getting pretty cold
14:46
and starting to snow. This is like in December,
14:50
you know. I got over to Toronto. And I still
14:55
needed to find work. I didn't know any musicians
14:58
or anything. Someone said, you know, you try
15:02
the post office. So there I go. And so they needed
15:06
extra people to help deliver the mail, you know,
15:10
during the Christmas season. Yeah. And so that's
15:13
what I did, one job. And then I ended up going
15:19
to Manpower in Toronto, Canada. And they sent
15:24
me to this factory, that factory, where they
15:27
needed extra people during the Christmas season.
15:30
One day, I happened to be walking home from the
15:33
manpower office, and I had noticed this building,
15:39
which looked like a big factory, and it said
15:43
CCM on it. I had no clue what that meant. But
15:47
this was like a block -long building. Yeah. And
15:52
I decided, since I had no work, just to go in
15:56
there and see what the business was there. CCM,
16:00
is that hockey? Well, let me tell you, it's Canada
16:04
Cycle and Motor. That's what that means. And
16:08
so they made bicycles, and I don't know what
16:11
the motors were, but they also did all the hockey
16:14
stuff. Wow. So I went in there and found out
16:18
what... It was basically a bicycle factory. And
16:22
so I filled out forms. And while I was there,
16:25
a manager, a foreman, came into the office. And
16:31
he was reviewing my paperwork. And so he decided
16:37
to interview me right then and there. And he
16:41
found out that I'd really done nothing other
16:44
than just play music. But I was willing to work
16:47
at anything that he had, so that's how I started.
16:50
I was there for about six months. I moved on
16:54
up to putting the bicycle parts together, piecework.
16:58
After six months, things changed for me in regards
17:02
to my profession, which is music. Something came
17:06
up where a friend knew someone that was starting
17:10
a new band, and they were looking for new members.
17:15
the band and so through people that I had met
17:19
during the time in Toronto is how I got my first
17:25
gig in Toronto. It so happened that one of the
17:32
musicians in that band was from my hometown.
17:35
Wow. A clarinetist that had gone to college with
17:42
my drum teacher. And so that was a good connection
17:49
right there because we started playing together
17:52
and became good friends. And then he started
17:55
his own Dixieland band and I became his drummer.
18:01
And I pretty well worked with him most of the
18:05
time that I was in Canada. Up till about, well,
18:09
he, I worked with a lot of different people.
18:13
In the meantime, but mainly with him, like at
18:17
a hotel, playing jazz, you know, Dixieland jazz
18:20
and whatever. And then he got a call to join
18:24
the Lawrence Welk Show. And so he left. What
18:29
was his name? Henry Cuesta. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay.
18:35
He was the featured clarinetist with the Lawrence
18:38
Welk Show. And so he did very well. He moved
18:42
to L .A. and what have you. None of his band
18:44
members went with him because he was the only
18:47
one hired, you know, to play on that show. But
18:51
during my time in Toronto, the years that I was
18:54
there, I worked with a lot of other people as
18:57
well, doing casuals and some steady gigs and
19:03
what have you. So I was kind of establishing
19:05
myself pretty well in Toronto. When I was researching
19:10
in the Toronto newspapers to find bands you were
19:13
in, I found two bands that were cat -themed,
19:17
Emmett Jarvis and the Country Cats, and another
19:20
band called Kitty and the Cats, both spelled
19:23
with a K. Okay. Emmett Jarvis, was it? Yeah.
19:28
Okay. He was just outside of Buffalo. I worked
19:35
with him and his band, actually. Before I moved
19:40
to Toronto, before I could get my green card,
19:43
I worked with him for about a month or so, and
19:47
he was a Canadian band. But I was driving over
19:52
from Buffalo to play in his band. That's how
19:55
that happened. Wow. Kitty and the Cats, that
19:59
was the band that was being formed that I told
20:01
you about, that Henry, where I met Henry. Oh,
20:05
cool. Henry had been the booking agency that
20:12
booked Kitty. Meredith was also handling Henry.
20:19
And they put the two together and decided to
20:24
form this band to work hotels, basically. Kitty
20:30
was sort of an English -style... entertainer,
20:35
kind of like a Diamond Lil type. She led sing
20:40
-alongs, which were very popular in Canada at
20:44
that time, pub -type music, you know. And so
20:48
the Dixieland kind of, they decided that they
20:50
would try that, have her sing -along thing, you
20:54
know, that was mainly what she featured. She
20:56
was a singer, entertainer, but have a Dixieland
20:59
band behind her instead of another type of band,
21:03
you know. So that was kind of like an experiment.
21:06
And so since Henry played Dixieland clarinet
21:10
and saxophones, he was the choice for the saxophone
21:14
player. And Henry said, I think there's this
21:19
young man that just moved up here that might
21:23
work out well for this group. And that was me.
21:26
Actually, we both ended up being in that band
21:29
for a couple of years until Henry got a call.
21:33
to form his own band over at a a new hotel that
21:38
was being built uh close to the airport and they
21:42
were going to have a room up on the top floor
21:45
overlooking runway 23 and that was the name of
21:50
the the room runway 23 overlooking the airport
21:54
wow uh overlooking that runway you could actually
21:58
it was all windows and so therefore you could
22:01
sit by the windows and, you know, see the planes
22:04
coming in and out of Toronto Airport, you know,
22:08
while we played. So that's how I ended up playing
22:13
with Henry there. And then Henry left, and a
22:17
couple of well -known musicians, basically jazz
22:21
players in Toronto, took over the band, and they
22:25
decided to hold me over for their own band. Was
22:30
one of them John Arpin? Well, John Arpin was
22:34
someone that was associated with Henry, and I
22:38
worked with him on and off a lot. But Guido Basso,
22:42
who was this very well -known trumpet player
22:47
personality, was one of the people that took
22:50
over after Henry left. And then Guido did it
22:54
for about six months or so. Mind you, these guys
22:58
were like studio players as well. Yeah. And Russ
23:01
Little. was the other person, the trombonist,
23:04
that took over the band. And I was held over
23:07
again to play in his band. And so that was pretty
23:15
well the last steady job that I had in Toronto
23:18
before moving to California. I remember you said
23:22
you had played with a rock band and opened for
23:25
Alice Cooper. Is that later? That was after the...
23:30
The hotel gig ended. Is that in Toronto? Yeah,
23:34
that was in Toronto. And in regards to rock,
23:37
there was two bands in Canada that one of them
23:44
I auditioned for. I hadn't been in Toronto maybe
23:49
a couple of months or so. And my wife at the
23:52
time saw an ad in the paper saying there was
23:55
a group of guys looking. to form a band, and
24:01
they were auditioning drummers. So I ended up
24:05
being the last guy to audition, and the song
24:10
that they chose for me to audition was a Jimi
24:14
Hendrix song, Manic Depression. I know that one,
24:18
yeah. Okay. You know, it's in 3 -4. Anyway, good
24:22
for me that Jimi Hendrix, I think, had come out
24:26
with the Are You Experienced album. his first
24:29
album, earlier that year, I had it in my possession.
24:34
It was some of the very first rock that I started
24:37
listening to. Yeah. And so I knew basically what
24:42
to play. And so I got the gig, okay? And what
24:47
they wanted to do is rehearse and rehearse and
24:49
rehearse and then try to find gigs. And that's
24:53
the reason why I didn't stay with the band, because
24:56
I had a family. I had my wife and my daughter.
25:00
Yeah, you need a paycheck, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
25:03
So not only was I accepted, but I fired myself,
25:07
you know, because there was, you know, there's
25:09
no way I could have gone to their place and rehearsed
25:12
every day and go home with nothing, empty pockets,
25:15
you know. So that was one band. The other band
25:19
was pretty well around 1972, and I had already
25:23
started. teaching myself how to play congas because
25:27
I couldn't find anyone that would show me anything.
25:33
The guys that I knew that played congas, they
25:36
used to say, well, you'll figure it out, or you
25:41
just got to feel it. And that doesn't tell you
25:43
anything about how do you develop the certain
25:45
sounds that you need to be able to do on a conga
25:49
drum. I was doing the best I could from recordings
25:54
and what have you. And so this drummer friend
25:58
of mine knew I was doing that. And this band
26:01
that he was rehearsing with, they were looking
26:04
for a percussionist. So he told me to come in
26:08
and play with them. So I did. And so after a
26:11
month, this group was kind of like a cross between
26:15
Allman Brothers and Chick Corea. is the way they
26:19
describe their music. Okay. Okay, southern rock
26:23
and jazzy, okay? This drummer decided to leave
26:27
the band because he didn't like something about
26:29
it or whatever. And so he told them, he says,
26:33
well, you know, Willie not only plays congas,
26:36
but he's also a drum set player. He knows the
26:38
songs, so maybe you should give him a try. So
26:42
anyway, I ended up being the drummer for this
26:45
group. They were opening for a new band. And
26:48
this is like about 100 miles outside of Toronto.
26:51
As it happened, the band we were opening for
26:54
was Alice Cooper. Oh, nice. And I'd never heard
26:59
Alice Cooper until that time. We show up to the...
27:05
I had met the drummer before because when we
27:11
were doing a sound check, he was up there setting
27:14
up his double bass set and everything. And so...
27:17
I was really interested in hearing them play.
27:20
But then the band leader, we were all traveling
27:23
in a van, you know, like all those rock bands
27:26
did back then. And they said, as soon as we packed
27:30
up, we got to get back to town, you know. So
27:32
I never did get to hear Alice Cooper's debut
27:35
in Canada. So that was the extent of my rock
27:40
playing. But what was most influential. And really
27:45
opened up my ears and my mind was seeing the
27:50
movie Easy Rider. It was two hippie guys on their
27:55
motorcycles going cross country. Okay, yeah.
27:59
Okay. And I think that was one of Jack Nicholson's
28:03
first movies that he ever made. And the great
28:08
thing about the movie was... It was a great story
28:11
and sad, but it was just the state of Americans
28:16
at that time about alternative lifestyle people.
28:20
Yeah. But you need to check it out at some point
28:24
to find out what I'm talking about. But the music
28:26
in it was killer because it had all these current
28:31
bands that were popular and changing the direction
28:35
of music from Hendrix to Vanilla Fudge. to Blues
28:41
Band from Chicago, whose names I can't remember
28:44
right now. Steppin' Wolf, did you ever hear of
28:46
Steppin' Wolf? Oh, yeah. Born to be Wild, I know
28:49
that one. And Magic Cart Ride, I know that one
28:52
too. And Creedence Clearwater. Oh, yeah. Revival,
28:56
you know, all these great songs. And I'm thinking,
28:59
my God, I never heard any of this stuff. But
29:02
you know what I did after I saw that movie? I
29:05
went out to Tower Records. and I bought an album
29:09
about each of those bands just to kind of soak
29:14
my ears into that music and find out what all
29:18
was happening outside of jazz, you know? Yeah.
29:22
So anyway, that was kind of like a new beginning
29:25
for me. And then the Mahavishnu Orchestra, did
29:28
you ever hear of them, John McLaughlin's band?
29:30
Uh -uh, I've not. Okay, you're going to have
29:33
to open up your ears. You got to hear the Mahavishnu
29:36
Orchestra. There's no way you can miss this.
29:38
It's a must. Because amazing guitar playing.
29:44
These were all jazz musicians influenced by rock.
29:49
One of the very first bands that everything they
29:51
played was a different time signature. John McLaughlin.
29:55
He played a double neck guitar. And you're going
29:58
to have to hear it. All right. I have it written
30:01
down like I have it open on my computer. I will
30:04
listen to that. I heard them live twice in Toronto.
30:09
Once by themselves, and I was sitting pretty
30:13
close to them, and they were like the loudest
30:16
band I ever heard in my life, but still amazing.
30:19
Next time at the Maple Leaf Gardens, opposite
30:23
Frank Zappa's band. So that was a night to remember
30:28
as well. So that was a big influence on me. Billy
30:33
Cobham's playing with the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
30:38
That became part of my mix. So anyway, I just
30:44
jobbed around for a few months for different
30:47
people. By then, a lot of people in Toronto had
30:52
found out about me on the jobbing scene. And
30:56
so I was doing pretty well just working. you
31:01
know, with whoever called every week. Yeah. Doing
31:04
bar mitzvahs and tuxedo jobs. And I had, in terms
31:10
of country music, the only country music I ever
31:13
played was really in the studio. Earlier, before
31:17
Henry, someone found out I was, because of my
31:23
Buck Owens connection, that I was living in Toronto.
31:27
And so through the union, Because I've always
31:30
been in the union, musicians union. And they
31:33
got in touch with me and they said, listen, I'm
31:35
forming a group for doing studio work. He worked
31:40
for a publishing company. It escapes my mind,
31:45
but I know that they were the publishers for
31:47
the song Snowbird. Oh, that's right. You said
31:50
you had to record that song like 50 times, right?
31:53
Yeah, exactly. So Gary Buck was the name of the
31:57
man that was. putting this recording group together.
32:01
And he was himself a Canadian recording artist,
32:06
a really good singer, as a matter of fact. He
32:08
was in charge of the publishing company there
32:11
in Toronto. He would bring different musicians
32:14
together, and I just happened to be the main
32:17
drummer that they used for all these country
32:19
recording sessions at that particular time. And
32:23
so I did that for a couple of years and then
32:26
just got tired of... And just dropped out and
32:30
just kept on jobbing and playing. So that was
32:33
kind of like on the sideline of something that
32:36
I did while I was in Toronto. Yeah, that's cool.
32:39
And then around 1972, 73, I decided that it was
32:45
time for me to move back to the States because
32:47
my marriage hadn't worked out, you know, and
32:51
I had gotten divorced and all that. I decided
32:53
to move to the Bay Area, San Francisco. I only
32:58
had one connection, and it was a musician that
33:02
I met in Toronto who was from New York City,
33:05
and he was basically a jazz player. He had been
33:09
in the American Army, and his time was up, and
33:16
so he reenlisted, and then he changed his mind.
33:21
And he had a family. He had like about six kids,
33:26
you know. And they all lived in New York City.
33:29
And so he decided that he would desert this during
33:34
Vietnam. And so he took off. They all moved to
33:38
Toronto. And that's where I met him. I'd never
33:40
heard of him before. But I met him when I was
33:43
during that time there. And we became friends.
33:46
And then after being up in Toronto for a few
33:51
years, he decided that he was going to come back
33:54
down. to the States and turn himself in. And
34:00
so he was going to be doing that in California,
34:03
south of San Francisco, at some military installation
34:09
down by Monterey, California. He moved to San
34:14
Francisco. The apartment that he and his family
34:17
were staying at was in the Mission District,
34:21
which is the Latino area. Across the street was
34:25
where Carlos Santana had his vegetarian restaurant.
34:30
I don't know if I told you anything about that,
34:32
but Michael Munoz was his name. I forget how
34:37
I, oh, I know how I found out about him was through
34:40
a girlfriend that where he was and that I should
34:44
give him a call when I get down there, which
34:46
I did. And I stayed with him for maybe a month
34:49
or so. I found some work. playing down in San
34:53
Jose. I forget how it came about. Within a short
34:58
time, by then I moved to Oakland, California,
35:02
which is just across the bay, and I started commuting
35:06
down to San Jose. There was a club down there
35:10
that I worked at for over a year or so, and that's
35:14
how I kind of got started in the Bay Area. Slowly,
35:18
I started... infiltrating the jazz scene, you
35:24
know, by going to jam sessions and meeting musicians.
35:27
And so in the meantime, my friend Munoz got his
35:31
discharge, got free, and he went back to, he
35:37
took his family back to New York, and I didn't
35:40
see him for about a year. He came back to California,
35:43
and then he and his family ended up staying with
35:47
me. in the apartment that I had, which is a fairly
35:51
big place. And so during the time that he was
35:56
with me, that he had come back to California,
35:59
he was traveling with Pharaoh Saunders. I don't
36:02
know if you know who Pharaoh Saunders was. No.
36:05
This famous saxophonist that was associated with
36:08
John Coltrane back in the late 60s. Cool. Through
36:13
him being with this band and... and working in
36:18
San Francisco, he met different players and inquired
36:24
about, did he know any drummers that were looking
36:28
to play in a band, in a jazz band? And well,
36:31
since he was staying with me, he suggested me.
36:34
And that particular connection there is what
36:37
got me started in the Bay Area in regards to
36:43
the movement that was happening at that time.
36:47
in what they called world music. It was jazz,
36:52
but it was like influenced by African music or
36:58
Brazilian music or culturally, you know, India.
37:02
You know, that was happening a lot in the 70s,
37:08
this world music movement. It turned out this
37:13
one group that was looking for a drummer. I met
37:15
this bass player at a rehearsal, and the rehearsal
37:20
wasn't going that smoothly and this and that.
37:23
And he was unhappy, and I don't know, I was just
37:27
happy to be there and getting a chance to meet
37:29
some new people and what have you, and getting
37:32
a chance to play. But the bass player said to
37:36
me, listen, I'm not going to hang out with this
37:39
band. I said, this is not going to go anywhere.
37:42
He said, I know the band that's just perfect
37:45
for you and me, and are you interested? And I
37:50
said, well, I'll check it out. And so that's
37:53
how I started with this group called The Pyramids,
37:56
which was very Afro -influenced and with African
38:02
instruments and what have you. When did you start
38:04
with The Pyramids? Do you know what year that
38:06
would have been? This is around 1975, 76. And
38:11
during that time, I had started studying with
38:14
an African drummer, an African drummer from Ghana,
38:18
okay? And his name was Kwaku Dati. And he was
38:22
in San Francisco. And I was interested in learning
38:26
multiple drums, not just one or two congas. And
38:31
I was interested more in African drumming than
38:36
per se Latin music, which is... African influence,
38:41
but it's also more than just that. You know,
38:45
Cuban music or Puerto Rican, you know, which
38:49
what they call Latin music is a mixture of African
38:53
and European. But that was my interest. Even
38:56
though that was some of the music that I grew
38:58
up with, I wanted to study African drumming.
39:01
So I studied with this teacher, Kwaku Dottie,
39:04
for... at least a year that I can remember. And
39:07
so that was a good foundation for me, leading
39:13
me into the group of the Pyramids, because they
39:17
were combining the African culture with jazz,
39:22
you know, and instruments that they had brought
39:26
back from Africa. Anyway, it was a great learning
39:29
experience for me, and I fit in. really well
39:35
with that group so I was with them for over a
39:38
year maybe two years and then there was another
39:41
band that I joined I actually left the pyramids
39:48
because I was ready for a change and this other
39:51
band called Infinite Sound became the logical
39:55
choice at that time and it was just a trio compared
40:00
to The pyramids, I think, might have been five
40:04
or six people. So anyway, I was with Infinite
40:11
Sound two, maybe close to three years. And there's
40:17
music on YouTube now that you can hear of me
40:21
playing with Infinite Sound. Not the pyramids.
40:27
I used to, even though I started recording, but
40:29
I didn't keep any recordings for some reason.
40:33
None that I can think of survived. But then while
40:36
I was with Infinite Sound, we did a lot of recording,
40:41
home recording, and maybe concert recording.
40:44
And so that is what has appeared on YouTube now.
40:49
I don't know if you've heard any of that. I've
40:52
listened to some of your jazz improvisations
40:55
on your YouTube channel. I don't know if it was
40:57
specifically the Infinite Sound one or not. That
41:00
was different from the Pyramids in the sense
41:03
of it was also totally improvised music. Music
41:07
of the moment would be a good disc because it
41:14
was all improvised. Nobody wrote any songs or
41:18
tunes. And that was popular at that time. you
41:22
know, the jazz avant -garde. Yeah. And so that
41:26
was easy for me, switching over to a different
41:30
group that just improvised, period, you know.
41:33
And so there's examples of that. If you check
41:36
it out on YouTube, like I said, it's a trio,
41:39
and it's called Infinite Sound. And that's pretty
41:45
well what has been released there is recordings
41:49
that I did myself. you know, with my own machine
41:52
that are fairly, very professional quality music
41:59
representative of where I was musically during
42:03
the mid 70s. And 78 was a really good year for
42:08
me because I played with several different groups
42:11
from Pee Wee Ellis, who was a saxophone player
42:15
that worked with James Brown. Actually, the same
42:19
year as I was with Buck, he was with James Brown.
42:22
And he wrote a couple of songs for James Brown.
42:25
Cold Sweat, I think, was one of them. And Pee
42:28
Wee was from about a year younger, I think, than
42:32
me. And he was from Texas as well. He was from
42:37
Sherman, Texas, the same place that Buck Owens
42:41
is from. And so we chuckled about that. And but
42:48
so I did a lot of playing with Pee Wee. He's
42:53
mainly known for the funk stuff that he recorded,
42:58
you know, but he was actually very much into
43:01
straight ahead jazz and experimentation as well.
43:05
And so we had a good two or three years playing
43:10
together during that time in California. Bobby
43:15
McFerrin was another. a musician that I was briefly
43:19
connected with. And there's a recording that
43:22
will eventually appear on YouTube. Mark Isham,
43:27
a trumpet player in the Bay Area that went on
43:30
to write a lot of movie soundtrack scores. And
43:34
there's a recording of that two -hour concert
43:39
down in San Jose with Pee Wee Ellis, Julian Priester
43:44
on trombone. Eddie Henderson, trumpet player,
43:50
another trumpet player that was featured that
43:53
night as well. These are all well -known jazz
43:56
musicians from that area during that time. Yeah,
44:00
that's really cool. And even Bobby McFerrin,
44:03
he's crossed over. Well, at that time, Bobby
44:06
didn't have a recording contract yet. It was
44:09
maybe a couple of years after we hooked up that
44:13
he got his recording contract. And I think one
44:16
of the songs that I have a recording of, he actually
44:21
recorded on his first album. Oh, that's really
44:24
cool. And that's how I also, during that time,
44:27
met up with Pharoah Saunders, who my friend Michael
44:31
Munoz played with. Pharoah was from the Bay Area
44:35
to begin with, but he lived not only in Oakland,
44:40
but he also had a home in New York City. or somewhere
44:44
in the area there. But he was pretty popular
44:48
in jazz circles at that time. And unfortunately,
44:52
what I recorded with him did not survive. I think
44:56
there is one jam session recording that I have
44:59
with Pee Wee Ellis that Pharaoh played a couple
45:04
of tunes on. That's about all that I have in
45:07
terms that survives, you know, in all these years.
45:10
So all of this will eventually come out on YouTube.
45:14
There's one session from a couple of gigs that
45:17
we did with Pee Wee where it was more kind of
45:21
funk -oriented or kind of funk rock jazz, you
45:25
know, a mixture. Did you ever hear of a tune
45:29
called The Chickens? No, I can't say I have.
45:32
You know who Jaco Pastorius was? I've heard the
45:36
name, but I can't think of any music. A bass
45:39
player. He became very famous in the 70s. He
45:43
was with the band Weather Report. Oh, okay. People
45:48
talk about him as one of the greatest bassists.
45:51
Yeah. Well, he recorded that tour, the Pee Wee
45:54
Ellis Road, and he called it The Chicken. Okay?
45:57
It's a funky piece. Jazz funk. But Pee Wee's
46:02
name for that tune was Chicken Soup. So anyway,
46:09
I have a recording of me actually playing. We
46:13
did that tune at one of our concerts. So a couple
46:18
of things survive from that band, you know, where
46:22
I'm not playing any swing. It's all more rock
46:25
and funk oriented, you know. Yeah. So I should
46:30
point out, in this time... You're a part of this
46:34
avant -garde seed in San Francisco that was happening
46:37
in the 70s. And you were a vegetarian at the
46:40
time. You also were going by your full name,
46:43
Guillermo, at the time, too. And so things were
46:46
so much different than the decade before. But
46:49
the thing that was in common is that you're just
46:51
always seeking new sounds to make. And you, throughout
46:56
your career, just search for more music to make
46:59
more influences. You'd never stay in the same
47:04
place. It's cool. Well, you know, I've always
47:07
played country music, but I've also done a lot
47:10
of other things, you know. And just like now,
47:13
for example, I haven't been doing a lot of country
47:18
playing since COVID happened. And there's several
47:22
reasons. And plus, I wanted a change from my
47:27
connections before. And so I'm not playing publicly
47:34
in regards to jazz that much. And I've got my
47:40
two rehearsal bands and one that focuses on John
47:44
Coltrane's music and the other and just standard
47:49
tunes, you know, that a lot of jazz players just
47:52
play. And I have a little jazz trio with guitar,
47:56
bass, and drums that we've done during the summer.
48:00
We were playing in the small club out here, not
48:03
far from where I live. And I think we're going
48:07
to resume probably in the new year. And I've
48:10
also recently reconnected with the original Scottish
48:16
bagpipe band that I co -found back in 1983. I
48:22
hadn't been in Nashville but just a couple of
48:26
months when that happened. So I was involved
48:32
in Scottish bagpipe music for maybe like 30 years
48:35
or so before I dropped out a few years ago because
48:40
of changes in my health and what have you. But
48:45
so I'm not going to be able to play in the band.
48:49
It's not what I was after, but mainly as a consultant
48:54
and teacher in the group. is basically where
49:00
I'm at at this point. And the news change is
49:05
that possibly within a month, I should be playing
49:09
in this new club with a trio that basically is
49:16
going to be playing ACDC, Metallica. Wow. Cool.
49:22
More rock -oriented or even... The newer country
49:27
stuff that's more rock -oriented. Yeah. Rather
49:30
than playing country shuffles. I'll still always
49:33
do that, you know, when people call me. But I
49:37
just decided I'm still pretty strong enough that
49:43
I can lay down a heavy beat, you know, and handle
49:47
those, you know, ACDC songs. You know, like Back
49:53
in Black. Yeah. Rock and roll and acid noise
49:57
pollution and, you know, highway to hell and
50:01
what have you, you know. And what kind of led
50:04
me in that direction is that as I teach, I've
50:08
been teaching at this music store. It's about
50:13
a half hour away in Leaven, Tennessee. And I've
50:17
been there for like 20 years. And I've been more
50:20
and more. younger kids like seven or eight year
50:24
olds you know they they're into that older rock
50:29
you know and they've asked me to teach them how
50:32
to play certain songs you know and so so that's
50:38
how it kind of started and so and I also for
50:43
years now I've been working on double bass just
50:46
for my own health you know getting my foot coordination,
50:52
both feet, staying healthy mainly. But that led
50:56
me to really anyone that studies me with me now
51:01
at the store has to learn to play double bass.
51:07
Because, you know, that's kind of like a popular
51:10
thing. And so I've learned to incorporate it
51:14
into songs like, are you familiar with Back in
51:17
Black? Oh, yeah. Okay, so you have the verses
51:23
and then the choruses and then the instrumental.
51:25
Well, the choruses and the instrumental is where
51:28
I inject the double bass. You know, if you can
51:32
hear that. Yeah. You know, just things like that
51:37
to make it more interesting. You know, and the
51:40
kids love it. So I have boys and girls both playing
51:43
double bass. Yeah. And you mentioned to me, oh,
51:47
sorry, go ahead. I was going to say six -year
51:49
-old girls, you know? Yeah, that's cool. It's
51:53
no big thing. It's no issue, only if you make
51:57
it. And you had told me that you use the Korn
52:01
drummer's Ray Luzier's double bass material to
52:07
help teach. And that's a Bakersfield band too,
52:09
so it's Bakersfield related. Ray wanted to know
52:14
if those Rogers drums that were in there were
52:19
my old drum set. Well, that white set of drums
52:23
that Ray Luzier was talking about did not belong
52:26
to me. Mine were Silver Sparkle. And I don't
52:30
know, it could have been Buck's last drummer
52:32
that had those. So that's the only connection
52:36
I have with Ray, other than... that I have is
52:40
DVDs and I teach out of his double bass stuff,
52:45
drum fills. So in 1999, there was the Buck Owens
52:50
birthday bash at the Crystal Palace in Bakersfield.
52:53
And that was the last time that you reunited
52:56
with some of the band of the original Buckaroos.
53:00
How was that? Well, Buck called me and he called
53:04
each of us that were still alive. Don was the
53:07
only one missing. about would we be willing to
53:10
come out to Bakersfield for that birthday bash.
53:14
And not only just us, but our wives. He wanted
53:18
to pay our way to fly out there and back him
53:24
up, I guess, one last time. That's what it turned
53:27
out to be. One last time. And so I had a stipulation
53:33
that if I was going to come out there, I wanted
53:37
to spend some time with him. And he promised
53:40
me that that would happen, and it didn't happen.
53:43
He was too preoccupied with everything else.
53:47
But it was fine. I was happy just that I had
53:51
always wished that we would get together at least
53:54
one more time just to see if I could get that
53:59
old feeling that I used to get when we were on
54:02
stage together. So I was happy just the fact
54:04
that we only saw him, really about 15 minutes
54:09
before we went on stage up in his office. And
54:12
it was just weird having the piano on stage,
54:16
Jim Shaw, who's a good player and nice guy, but
54:21
he did not belong with the sound that we originally
54:25
had. Christopherson played guitar and Tom played
54:31
steel. It was basically just, of course, Just
54:35
Doyle, Holly, Tom Bromley and myself and our
54:38
wives, you know. So that was that. And the last
54:45
thing Buck said to me as we were leaving offstage
54:48
was he hugged me and he said, thanks for coming
54:52
out. And he said next time he came to Bakersfield
54:55
that he would look me up. Well, it never happened
54:58
again. I don't think he ever came to Bakersfield
55:02
that I know of. Oh, to Nashville? Yeah, I'm sorry.
55:06
To Nashville is what I meant. Yeah. So that was
55:11
the end of that. Was it fun to reminisce with
55:15
them about old times with Doyle? Oh, of course
55:17
there was. Yeah, yeah. Well, the three of us
55:20
met up somewhere, maybe in Dallas, and we all
55:24
kind of sat together and had dinner together
55:27
and this and that, you know. It was different
55:30
on stage. Yeah, it'd been a long time. It wasn't
55:35
like the old days. Everybody was older and, you
55:40
know, it affects things. And Buck didn't sound,
55:45
his guitar sound and the way he sounded vocally,
55:49
you know, it had changed. And I knew it would
55:52
be, that he... It would be different. But I just
55:55
wanted to see what it would feel like with all
55:57
of us being up there together, you know. It was
56:01
great that it happened. But, you know, it's past.
56:07
Yeah. And so all I can do is keep moving on.
56:11
And you see, Buck was the same way. Yeah. So
56:15
there's really not much else I can say about
56:18
it. Yeah. It was great, and I'm glad it happened.
56:23
I just had to let it go, you know? It's in the
56:27
past. You know, I'm still alive, and I'm not
56:31
interested in just playing shuffles for the rest
56:34
of my life, even though it's one of the best
56:37
rhythms I've ever played, you know? And when
56:40
I play with bands downtown, there's one in particular,
56:44
the one that, and I quit this band about three
56:47
years ago. We've been together for about 12 years
56:50
or so at the same club. The Palace Band? No,
56:54
this is at Roberts, Western World, downtown.
56:57
Oh, wow. Cool. When I was at the National Palace,
57:01
that was an entirely different band than the
57:04
one I'm talking about. And this one was more
57:08
traditional country, you know, like Ray Price,
57:11
George Jones, Buck Owens, Yaggard. you name it.
57:15
It was basically more that style, you know. So
57:18
we did a lot of shuffles. So I subbed once or
57:22
twice a year with the band. They're all still
57:25
together. I just, I didn't want to be 90 years
57:28
old and still be there. And so that's why I quit.
57:33
But every time I go play with them, I love it
57:37
because it's the same old feeling that we were
57:39
able to generate together, you know. Yeah, that's
57:43
awesome. Okay, so you started both of the main
57:48
bands in Nashville that do Scottish Pipe Band,
57:53
which is called the Tennessee Scots Pipe Band
57:57
and the Nashville Pipes and Drums. Yes. The Nashville
58:02
Pipes and Drums was first, and that was in 1983.
58:06
I came to Nashville in May, actually the week
58:11
of my birthday. which is May 26th. We came to
58:15
Nashville then. And within a month, I connected
58:19
with a piper, you know, at a Scottish society
58:25
gathering. But so started that. And I stayed
58:30
with that band for about five years or six. And
58:34
I ended up getting road work and this and that.
58:38
And I was too busy. to really have time to rehearse
58:42
with the pipe band. So I just kind of just bowed
58:45
out, excuse me, and let somebody else take over
58:50
the drum corps, which was really starting to
58:54
kind of just come into being because during the
58:58
years that I was in the band, I could never find
59:01
any drummers that were interested in that style
59:03
of drumming to teach and to have. to actually
59:06
build a drum corps. But the Tennessee Scots Band,
59:09
which happened maybe about within five years
59:12
of four years or so after me quitting the Nashville
59:16
band, someone else, I met a piper from up New
59:20
Jersey where I had come from, and he was interested
59:25
in starting another band. And so I decided to
59:31
try again. I was in that band a lot longer than
59:35
I was with the Nashville band. And that was the
59:38
Tennessee Scots. And the name has changed. The
59:43
group is still somewhat together, but there's
59:46
hardly enough people to really call it a band
59:48
from what I understand. But they still get together
59:51
to play just because they love to play. And they
59:55
go by a different name now. But it used to be
59:59
Tennessee Scots. It's been like over 10 years,
1:00:02
maybe 15 years since I played with that band.
1:00:05
I think it's amazing because you kind of became
1:00:09
an authority on pipe band drumming and you were
1:00:13
writing articles for International Pipe Band
1:00:15
Drummer and you told me you were compiling a
1:00:18
bunch of different resources to learn drumming,
1:00:22
that style. Well, at that time in 83, there wasn't
1:00:27
hardly anything available, information on Scottish
1:00:30
pipe band drumming. So therefore, I was all alone
1:00:35
here in Nashville because there had never been
1:00:38
anybody or nobody moved here that had any pipe
1:00:43
band experience or drumming experience, you know,
1:00:46
in that idiom. So the only thing for me to do
1:00:51
is to go to workshops. which were held like in
1:00:54
Atlanta or different places other than Nashville,
1:00:58
and try to get as much information as I could
1:01:03
from the teachers that were available at these
1:01:07
workshops. And also anything doing with Scottish
1:01:13
music. Basically, I educated myself by searching
1:01:18
out whatever information I could find. Not only
1:01:22
just in drumming, but in pipe bands and what
1:01:26
have you. I would venture to say that there's
1:01:31
never been anybody in Nashville that's been known
1:01:36
to me that has done the research and study that
1:01:40
I have to teach myself about that type of music.
1:01:48
There's a lot more people interested in it now,
1:01:51
but they're a lot younger than I am. Anyway,
1:01:54
I would say I'm somewhat, I hate to use the word
1:01:58
authority, but in this area, I mean, I have an
1:02:02
extensive library of not only recordings, videos
1:02:08
from the World Pipe Band Championships in Scotland,
1:02:11
records, CDs, cassette tapes. And also music,
1:02:20
not only bagpipe music, but also drumming music
1:02:24
that has been written by different leading drummers,
1:02:28
either in Scotland or Canada. You know, world
1:02:32
-class musicians that I've collected through
1:02:36
the years. I'm looking for someone to pass all
1:02:39
this on to. My thought was there's someone that's
1:02:42
leading the Nashville pipe band drum section
1:02:45
right now. That seems like a likely candidate.
1:02:49
So we'll see. We'll see. But anyway, I'm not
1:02:52
involved in the band aspect of playing in the
1:02:58
band and marching out in parades and going to
1:03:02
Highland games. I don't have the physical stamina
1:03:05
to do that anymore. So I'm happy to instruct
1:03:10
and pass on information to anyone that's willing
1:03:13
to hear. That's awesome. That's where I'm at.
1:03:16
in regards to that. So looking back at your career,
1:03:21
what are the top three songs that you recorded?
1:03:25
Well, I don't know that I have any favorites.
1:03:28
That's fair. There's no favorites. There are
1:03:33
certain songs that Buck sang that I just really
1:03:37
liked a lot. Like what? Well, there was one called
1:03:41
Storm of Love, which... I used to ask him to
1:03:46
sing. And sometimes he would do it, sometimes
1:03:50
he wouldn't. There were songs that were done
1:03:53
long before I was a buckaroo, in his earlier
1:03:56
career, maybe like two, three years before me.
1:04:00
There's probably a couple of others. I just can't,
1:04:02
off the top of my head, I can't think of what
1:04:04
they are. But there's some songs that I just
1:04:06
really enjoyed hearing him sing. And I can tell
1:04:11
you that hearing... Him sing together again,
1:04:14
him and Don on stage, used to give me chills,
1:04:19
the back of my neck. So together again could
1:04:22
be a song, you know, one of those songs that
1:04:27
stands out. But actually, you know, there's nothing
1:04:30
that I didn't enjoy. But the thing is, if you
1:04:35
have three songs, I don't know that I can name
1:04:38
three songs. Yeah, it's a really question that
1:04:41
puts you on the spot. Okay, what about concerts?
1:04:44
What about your top three most memorable concerts
1:04:48
that you played? Well, Carnegie Hall, for sure.
1:04:52
And Japan. Yeah. Just those two. I mean, there's
1:04:59
so many other places that we played at that there
1:05:02
were a lot of them. Basically, you see, the band
1:05:07
got to a real high level of... of music making,
1:05:12
you know, real quick after I joined the band
1:05:15
to where the standard was really, it couldn't,
1:05:19
it never got better. You know, it was, once it
1:05:22
reached that peak, it stayed there. We were able
1:05:25
to, every show that we did kind of became like
1:05:30
that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You were
1:05:33
just at that level. Because we were able to produce
1:05:37
the same. high level of quality music that we
1:05:44
were able to evoke that feeling on stage just
1:05:47
by just going up and starting up and hearing
1:05:51
Bucks sing and Don sing and play and you know
1:05:55
it wouldn't take us but just starting that first
1:05:59
song to get right to that spot you know it wasn't
1:06:05
like we had bad nights and then Good night. No,
1:06:09
once we hit our stride, maybe within the first
1:06:14
year, it stayed there. The intensity, the vibe
1:06:19
was just there as soon as we hit. That's how
1:06:23
good it got. That's how it should be, regardless
1:06:28
of what kind of music you do. Once you get on
1:06:32
stage and you hit... that first note and you
1:06:36
get rolling, you're already there. You want to
1:06:39
be there. You don't want to wait 15 minutes before
1:06:42
you actually get anything going. You need to
1:06:45
be able to do it right from the very beginning.
1:06:49
Otherwise, you know, you're inconsistent. You
1:06:53
haven't reached that level yet. That's my thought
1:06:57
anyway. I usually refer to myself When people
1:07:01
are talking to have records or this or that,
1:07:03
I said, oh, that's my grandson, Willie Cantree,
1:07:06
right there. Because that's how when I see myself
1:07:09
as a young man, you know, 17, 18, well, you know,
1:07:14
it's like it happened. It's like another world,
1:07:18
you know, because so much in my life has changed.
1:07:21
I've gone through so many different changes.
1:07:24
It's almost like I reinvent myself every 10 years.
1:07:28
It's what keeps me going. I remain inspired because
1:07:33
of it. And so I'll listen to anything at least
1:07:37
once. Either you like it or you don't. That's
1:07:41
just the way it is with music. And I've been
1:07:44
pretty open to it. It's amazing just how it's
1:07:47
changed so much from the 60s to everything that's
1:07:53
come through from this or that style of music.
1:07:57
There's too many choices now. Yeah. You can run
1:08:02
any direction you want and you never cover it
1:08:07
all. Yeah. And it's strange. All of music is
1:08:12
happening at once. Before, you could only buy
1:08:15
what was recent. Popular at that time. Yeah,
1:08:18
but now you can go and just look online and you
1:08:22
could pick any recording from any time almost.
1:08:27
What advice do you have? for musicians, especially
1:08:30
ones that are just starting out? I don't like
1:08:33
giving advice. No advice. Go ahead. Let me see
1:08:38
what I say. You've given a lot of good advice
1:08:42
just in passing in all these questions. The first
1:08:46
thing that comes to mind is you have to follow
1:08:49
your heart, you know, in terms of what you want
1:08:51
to do with your life. And I was very fortunate
1:08:54
that as a teenager, meaning when I was like 15,
1:08:59
16, I got the vibe right away that I was supposed
1:09:04
to play drums. I decided that young that I wanted
1:09:08
to play drums for a living. And it was after
1:09:14
my drum teacher, Albert Garcia Jr., started sending
1:09:19
me as his sub on jobs. Once I got a taste of
1:09:25
that, And I found out that I could do that. It
1:09:28
had never entered my mind about making a living
1:09:31
out of it. But I realized that I could. And once
1:09:37
I got taken away from Texas and saw the rest
1:09:41
of the world, that was it. There was no question
1:09:45
in my mind, you know. I mean, and it was going
1:09:48
on the road with Buck Owens that did it, you
1:09:50
know. It didn't matter what, you know, that I
1:09:53
wasn't playing jazz. which was my first love,
1:09:56
or anything else, I was happy. Once we hit our
1:10:00
stride on the bandstand, which happened very
1:10:03
early on, you know, probably from the first night,
1:10:07
that's it. You know, you're in the right place
1:10:10
at the right time, and everything is working
1:10:13
for you. Because Buck never came to me and said,
1:10:16
listen, Willie, it's not working out because
1:10:19
of this or because of that. That never happened.
1:10:24
Once we got past that first night, it was like
1:10:28
I'd been there all along. It was that simple.
1:10:31
So the thing is, and I know I loved drumming
1:10:35
from the very beginning, you know, and I was
1:10:39
very fortunate that being at the right place
1:10:42
at the right time, because I don't know how much
1:10:44
that happens anymore. And I just give pretty
1:10:48
well everything I have to my students. hope that
1:10:53
they follow their heart.