Latest / Mother Makes Music / Episode 5: Balancing Leadership & Motherhood with Carly Klassen

Transcript

Episode 5: Balancing Leadership & Motherhood with Carly Klassen · Mother Makes Music

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Mother Makes Music podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Megan McKay, and I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Carly Classen.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Carly is the executive director of Alberta Music, which is a provincial music organization.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's a wealth of knowledge about all things policy, advocacy, and the behind the scenes of the music industry.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's an incredibly well-respected and well-loved woman in music, and she's also a mom.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've known Carly for years, since before either of us had children, and it's neat to see how her experiences have been very similar.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I got married, then she got married.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I had my first, then she had her first.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had my second, and then she had her second child.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've really come to love and appreciate the people that are walking a very similar path at the same time because it's such a good reminder that you aren't alone in your experiences.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation with Carly was so interesting to me because she shares about how her and her partner have worked so hard to create their own system where they are both present and available for their children, where he doesn't have to turn down work, she gets to go to the office, and they just sort of find a balance and make it work with each other.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is such an underrated way to work.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It might not make sense for other families, but it doesn't have to.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to find what works for your family.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you can tell that Carly and her partner have done that.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I applaud them for that because that is not an easy thing to do, and it can be a really tricky line to balance.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed this conversation with Carly, and I hope you do too.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Carly.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to see you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen you in a minute since you've been on Matt Leave.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know I had grand plans to, you know, hit the road and visit everyone in Calgary, and not as easy with two.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So before we start talking about you now and being a mother, I'm wondering if you can just kind of start from the beginning.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: What was your path into the music industry?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I always had an interest in music like most kids in high school and that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I played in some bands, but I really didn't know that there was work in the music industry outside of being on stage.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when I left high school, I kind of left the bands and went to university.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I discovered the arts and cultural management program at McCune University, which is basically arts administration.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I took that with a focus on nonprofits and music.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I kind of ended up where I am now.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of reignited my love to play music.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've started to play music again.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of how I ended up where I am is through learning about learning about arts administration and nonprofits, and then landing my role at Alberta Music.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And what is your current role?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Currently, I am the executive director of Alberta Music.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I previously held other roles in that organization.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started as the admin assistant, a program coordinator, program manager, and kind of climbed the ladder to becoming the executive director.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Something I find so interesting about you is I saw a few of the executive directors at Alberta Music.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And not to say that they didn't have passion for it, but it sort of felt like it was a step.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'd be executive director for two or three years, and then you can move on to whatever record label or whatever your true passion is, whereas it really feels like you want to be executive director.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like your passion is Alberta Music and the nonprofit sector and making that work.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I really feel like you can see a difference.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I really do have a passion for it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like I said, it stems from my love for music.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: But as I've grown in the role, it's really become my passion for arts advocacy and pushing the music industry as an economic driver.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as I grow in the role, I'm discovering new skill sets that I'm developing that kind of just creates new passions within the role for me.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Before you had kids, what did success look like for you in your career?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a difficult question to answer because I I don't, I didn't know.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had such imposter syndrome.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, when I became executive director, I felt like I had some big shoes to fill with the previous executive directors.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of it was just me always striving to be better and better and better.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if I ever felt like I was succeeding, which is terrible to say, because looking back at it, I was.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it is just something that I think within myself I had a really, I really struggled with trying to prove myself.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've working nonstop 24 hours, traveling, going to an international festival, flying back Sunday and being in the office Monday, like showing up, being available, really creating a really unhealthy work-life balance.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that in my head, with before kids, that's what I thought you needed to do to succeed.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And did you always know that motherhood was going to be part of your life, or was that something that kind of came as a surprise to you?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I always knew I wanted to be a mother.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think with my job and my partner's job, we didn't know when to take a break to have children.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's one of those things that you can plan, but we just thought, like, oh, but then I won't you won't be able to travel Australia.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I won't be able to go to this UK festival.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: We just both prioritized our work so much that we just didn't know if we would ever have time.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: But COVID allowed that for us.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So was that a conversation you guys had?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, if the world is shut down anyway, maybe this is a good time to do this?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: During COVID, we were kind of, you know, hanging out at home every single day.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we just had a conversation where it's just like, well, if we don't know how long this is gonna happen.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it really allowed us to reflect of what we wanted our future to look like.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we knew that we wanted to have kids.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we just knew that we had to prioritize and we decided that we were gonna have kids.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: How would you describe your first postpartum experience?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Terrible.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know what, I it was it was terrible.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: In hindsight, it was terrible.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know when I was going through it how bad it really was until afterwards, and you know, you're researching postpartum depression and anxiety, and you're like, wow, okay, I was in the thick of it and I had no idea.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it was hard.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was COVID.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had my baby in a hospital with my husband wearing a mask and no one could come visit.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: My parents couldn't visit before anyone could come, like my parents coming to visit their grandkid.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: We made everyone go get COVID tests.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: My youngest niece couldn't come visit because she couldn't get a COVID test.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we just didn't know what we were exposing our newborn to.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in late fall, so I was leading into the winter.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was COVID and winter, things were closed.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, it was really, it was really difficult.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was difficult.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have an amazing partner who was working at home at the time.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just a quick yell to the studio in the basement for him to come up and help me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we really split a lot of the nighttime feedings and tasks.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to say, if it wasn't for those supports I recognize now, it could have been a lot worse.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I do still feel like I came out pretty good because of the supports I did have.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you're still within the first year of your second child, but do you think this postpartum experience has been different?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Has it been easier, better?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: It has its challenges, you know, the challenges of reteaching your body how to breastfeed and those things that you completely are not muscle memory, you don't forget.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Every child is different.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, those first, and I had a C-section with my second one.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the whole postpartum was a lot more challenging right from the start.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I do feel like the season in which I had my second really helped.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had my second in April, so it led into the summertime of being able to go outside every single day.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sun is shining, daylight pretty much all the time.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: That drastically made a difference in the postpartum journey for sure.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's still postpartum, like my hormones are still fluctuating.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's I feel like I'm nine months in and I'm kind of hitting like a new wave of I'm looking at going back to work now, which creates a whole new level of anxiety.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a journey.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're kind of unique from a lot of the women that I talked to, just in the fact that you have an employer and you were able to take actual maternity leave.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did you take that with both kids?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: 12 months each time.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine not taking it?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of hard to say.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say no, just because I don't know if I would have necessarily been able to do my role within like three months of going back.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I can imagine individuals that are, you know, like the like creatives, musicians, artists.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if an artist would want to take 12 months away from creating art.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they would if they got paid and there was universal pay and everything like that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, I really appreciate the time away from the desk, but I think the way that each person, I guess everyone, I I feel I feel like everyone deserves to have that time with their children.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Those 12 months is so is so crucial.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just, yeah, it's unfortunate that people don't have that same experience.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like in my role, I had the option of taking 12 to or 18 months maternity leave.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I sort of wish I would have taken 18 the second time around because it'll be my last, my last maternity leave.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you guys already know.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Two is we don't want to be outnumbered.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like I think for me, I I needed the 12 months.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like going back this time is gonna be harder.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was ready last time.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was excited last time.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm not saying I'm not excited to go back to work because I do love my job and the people that I get to work with, but I can say that I'm I'm not, I don't feel like I am ready this time to go back after 12 months.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally fair.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: When you went back to work the first time, can you remember like a specific moment where you were like, oh, I'm gonna have to navigate things a little differently now?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So when I went back to work the first time, I actually went and attended the Breakout West conference in Calgary the week before I was officially back at work.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a nice um, you know, intro into going back to work where I wasn't officially on the clock, but it was still a conference where I was representing Alberta music and people knew I was coming back to work.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a nice way to reconnect without, I guess, the the expectation to.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And my husband came with me, my mother-in-law came, we got, you know, adjoining hotel rooms, and that was a that was a reality into how difficult it was going to be to navigate um attending a conference with a child, first of all, even with the support there.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the thinking of attending something outside of Edmonton, where I live, uh more internationally, was usually, you know, it was it was really an exciting part of my job.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of started thinking about how much more difficult that was going to be in terms of just me not knowing if I would be able to be fully present.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to navigate that a lot.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was the biggest thing.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, my husband has a really flexible schedule.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever I had to go to Calgary, for example, for meetings or anything like that, he was usually able to come with me, have the kid, we could go to the zoo, kind of, you know, make that work-life trip.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it was really starting to realize how I had to be more had to relearn how to be present at those events, knowing that my kid was upstairs sleeping.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Was he sleeping?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is he napping?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is he awake?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also going to the hotel room at night and still waking up two, three times to comfort or feed your child.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a lot different going back and having to create and really having to create that work-life balance.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like your relationship with your job has changed since having kids?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's healthier.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would come home pre-kids, and then I thought there was nothing wrong with, and I'm not saying it is wrong.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm realizing it wasn't healthy.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it wasn't like my experience.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think there was anything wrong with sitting and putting on uh like a reality TV and working until midnight on a grant.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that still needs to happen.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Deadlines are deadlines, but it was more often, like multiple times a week.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I just would sit in front of the TV or sit on the dining room and just like work, work, work, work, work all the time, go to networking events.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like I really wasn't doing my job unless I was available 24 hours a day.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and now I'm, you know, not waking up first thing in the morning and checking the phone, checking the email.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think now waking up and going to see my children, having that morning time, getting them ready, breakfast.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think just having that different routine has created a like a really healthy relationship for me in work that it does allow me to like maximize what I get done in a day because I know when I want to go home, I want to spend it with my family.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever felt a bit of a struggle with, you know, the arts are so personal and you're dealing with people every day that this is their life, this is their dream.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever struggle balancing the emotional demands of your job with the emotional demands of your children?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine as my children get older, that might come come into the picture a little bit more.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think with the age of my oldest, he's four.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's more just having fun.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's challenges and like he has big feelings and we talk through those.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's just, I think there's such a separation and the like the type of like emotion and stress of like some of the artists that I talk to uh that I am able to separate it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I do really like that emotional connection I have with everyone I work with.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like the members and the artists have so much respect for artists that are able to articulate their feelings and need to, you know, need to talk through processes and steps and just need that support.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is one of my favorite parts of the job is to just know that people like that people know they can come to me to just have an honest conversation um and be vulnerable and that I'm there to listen.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like I don't know if every person in an executive director role in a nonprofit world approaches it the same way.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: They probably don't, you know, it's it's just it's just the way I find that I like to do my job.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I do so many like advocacy and grant writing and just, you know, conversations that can be really hard on me in terms of just it's taxing that again, being able to have that other side of the job where it is talking to human beings about their art, about their feelings, about their futures is just it like it's a really nice balance within the role.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel like Alberta Music and your team and the people you work with have been really accommodating of your, you know, the changes they knew you before you had kids?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do they understand that, you know, your hours are different now?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it has been accommodating, or do you think that's been sort of a a struggle to figure out?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I say, I have to say, I was I was really pleasantly surprised when I came back to work.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: The board of directors that I work with, worked with my first son has changed over the years.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the current board, each time that I've told them that I'm pregnant, they have been excited and thrilled, accommodating, encouraging.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's really, really, really nice.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And even like my other colleagues from across Alberta or in other provinces, because I'm on many boards nationally, it's been like excitement.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been really nice to, you know, they've given me the space, but you know, I've been on Mat Leave, but I still am on a WhatsApp group with all of the executive executive directors across Canada.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't participate as much, but it's, you know, it's nice to keep be kept in the loop of like what's happening.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a really difficult part about going on Mat Leave for 12 months, is that you do feel quite removed from the fast-paced industry that music is.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I just it's like I feel like I've had a lot of support, which I'm very fortunate to feel.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, there are still some people that I've met along the way that don't understand why I need to wrap up the meeting at five o'clock and I don't want to stay till six.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And but for the most part, I would say that I've been very fortunate in my experience to have a lot of support and encouragement in this motherhood journey.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: What has surprised you most about becoming a mother and then still continuing your work as a music industry professional?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's honestly, it's the ability to just pack up and go.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I pack up and oh, that's a really like let's pack up and go to uh the great escape in Brighton.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just the planning that is involved in doing anything with children is definitely added some challenges with the job.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, obviously I had grand plans that I would still continue to travel a ton, you know, nationally and internationally, but I've definitely cut that down by 80%.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but there's there are still there are still opportunities.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are still expectations of my role to travel for meetings.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I do still do that and go to Toronto, or if there's a new market that we're checking out for artists internationally, I still do that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think the hardest thing is just not the I completely was the type of person before it was like, I'll go to Calgary tomorrow for some meetings and you stack your day full of meetings, spend the night, and then you just decide you're gonna spend another day and have more meetings.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I really enjoyed that part because you really got a lot of FaceTime with everybody.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, it it turned into post-children a life ended up just being a lot more Zoom meetings.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was one of the things that came out of COVID, though, is everyone was already used to doing that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of a transition where there wasn't the same expectation when I came back to work to be in person as much because it shifted so much to online meetings and things like that already.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So but yeah, I would say the biggest thing is just like not the pick up and and go, let's just let's just go have some meetings and let's go check it out in person.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's still possible.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's a lot more planning and sometimes I don't want to be away from my kids.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's kind of balancing that too.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: What does your village look like?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're traveling and doing stuff like that, who do you have to call?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: My parents live in Edmonton and they are extremely, extremely, extremely hands-on.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: With my first son, when it was time for me to go back to work, they took my son part-time so that I didn't have to put him into full-time daycare.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they took him three days a week and he went to daycare two days a week, which I really liked because I wanted him to be a little bit older before he went to daycare.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a that's been amazing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: The first year of postpartum with my son, my mother-in-law moved from Whitehorse to Edmonton and she spent the entire year with us, which was amazing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And leading into going back to work, she traveled to some of the conferences with us and um like the Project Wild finale um night, she traveled down to Calgary with us to be in the hotel room with the kids so we could go see the show.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been really great.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I had to, I didn't have to, but part of the job was to go check out um Guadalajara, Mexico to see what that market was like.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I went solo.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: My husband stayed home with the my son.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was done my work trip, we met in Puerto Virta and we were able to leave my son with my parents for four days.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been amazing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like I have a sister that lives in Edmonton and she has two daughters.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, if my husband has a show and I want to go to it, I'm able to ask someone to come over, put the kids to sleep.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have amazing family and friends to support, and there's always people that are always saying, if you want someone to watch the boys, I'll come over.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: People that take the dog for a walk.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been really, yeah, it's been really great.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very, very, very fortunate to have like such close family and support to help.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like it's like it's a lot of juggling around with scheduling, but I always feel like if uh in a pinch, I have someone that can come over and look after the boys.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you guys are a little bit unique in that that your husband also works in music, has a bunch of different endeavors.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find you guys are doing a lot of juggling of your own schedules?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have to trade off he'll take this opportunity so that you can take this one?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you find that it's been pretty organic the way your scheduling has worked out?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think for first, uh for the first maternity leave I kind of went on.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was saying, my husband had a studio in the basement.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: For this now, this maternity leave, we knew that he needed to have a studio outside of the house to really allow him to get work done.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, he hosts a radio show, he does a lot of work in film and television.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we don't want him to take away any of those opportunities because it is, you know, he's he goes, it's contract and gig work.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would we don't want him to say no to any opportunities.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's also working on a children's show.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, he's filming on various days, but he's, you know, he's filming with other musicians and videographers.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we kind of have to purposely look at our calendars.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because he has, you know, he has a lot of people, a lot of other schedules to work around.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when days work for everyone to be able to go to the studio to film, that is really when he needs to be available.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we already know like when I go back to work, it's gonna look a lot different just because I'm not home, but you know, we are also recognizing that we have to put our second into daycare sooner, not we not wait till that 18-month threshold uh just because he has so much um on the go that we we kind of need to have that availability in the schedule.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: What is your relationship with Mom guilt?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that that you feel that you have to put him in daycare earlier?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that bothers you, or you're just that's the reality of this situation?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: How do you You feel about mom guilt?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, mom guilt is one of the worst feelings and one of those um feelings that people can tell you about, but you have no idea what it's gonna be like until you're experiencing it on your own.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like like right now, for example, my oldest is in daycare, even though I'm at home.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a level of guilt where it's like, I'm already at home.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why isn't he at home?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is he wants to play with a bunch of other four-year-olds.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't want to have super, super, super quiet time while his brother is having two naps a day.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he genuinely loves going to daycare.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I didn't see the excitement of him running into the room every morning, I don't know if I could actually do it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But he genuinely loves it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so for, you know, putting the youngest into daycare at 12 months, yeah, I feel guilty.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably still gonna do day part-time and figure it out with like my husband staying home a day, me working remote one day or whatever the case is.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, I'm not ready for him to be away every single day for five days and have, you know, have someone else take care of him.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is like that mom guilt is really there.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's harder when they're younger, but I do see the again, like I see the excitement in my oldest that he really does enjoy doing it.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that lessens the mom guilt in that way.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I have the mom guilt right now where the baby's napping, and so I can't go to skating lessons, but I should be at skating lessons.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't be, you know, a daddy Watson thing.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: It should maybe be a mommy Watson thing.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like trying to figure those things out now where it's like, okay, we can alternate taking him to swimming or skating.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just um so he has, he sees both mom and dad taking him into that activity, even though we have to be home with the baby.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find it was harder to go from zero to one or one to two?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it was more difficult for uh for me to go from one to two because the second one doesn't sleep.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, obviously like there's the adjustment of going from zero to one, you know.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I had two nieces.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I that's completely different, but I've come from a very big family with lots of cousins.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always been around babies and kids and my nieces.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, I was it was really exciting going from zero to one to be like, I finally have my own little baby that's like mine that I have all the time.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he just was like this perfect, perfect first child and like slept through the night.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, like just even though I was had a challenging postpartum, I was sleeping through the night.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: If I got if we got up at six o'clock, we got up at six o'clock, I put him for a nap.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: When he went for a nap, I went for a nap.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, you know, it was, it seemed like really great.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Going from one to two was difficult because when the baby goes for a nap, you don't go for a nap because there's a three-year-old that now is there to play.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really challenging that the baby doesn't sleep through the night.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So is up.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something we didn't experience with the oldest.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: He slept through the night from three months on, he still does, like sleeps through slept through night all the time.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: With the second one, he doesn't sleep through the night.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that creates its own just like level of exhaustion.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I think from one to two was challenging just because you yeah, like basically when one went for a nap, the other one is awake.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just the the difference of getting up in the morning, getting around packed up, going to daycare, taking two kids to a grocery store, taking two kids to anywhere is is just harder than one.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I find found going one to two was harder.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's harder for me to have that like pick up and let's get out of the house feeling.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: But thankfully, like the the toddler is more motivating and being like, no, let's go, let's go.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we do get out, but it's just it's harder.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I totally get that.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you think of a moment when you just felt like both parts of your life were totally aligned?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were crushing it as a mom, you were crushing it at work, you just felt like everything was exactly the way it should be.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess like when I first went back to work with my first, I would say it took like a full year really for me to really adapt to like getting back into it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I even found like just before I went on this last Mat leave, I've found myself like still thinking, like, oh, I just came back to work.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, it was been like three years.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I found it, I would say like a year into returning from Mat Leave, I just felt like I kind of lessened the expectations I put on myself.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't feel the need I had to be everywhere all the time, be at every event, be at every conference.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it took a while for me to recognize that it didn't have to be me that went.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was really great for me for again, like work life balance, but I also think it was really good uh for me to recognize, like as a leader of the organization, uh, to really allow those other opportunities to the other staff members, like the team members, to give them the opportunity to um further develop their skill set by going to a conference, checking out the programming.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like kind of like a year into it, I lessened the expectations for myself, which allowed me to fully enjoy motherhood and fully enjoy being in the office or going to the events that I did go to.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like that was that was it was a really great moment.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it had nothing to do with the people around me.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was really the expectations I just put on myself.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you had to actively work to figure out what kind of boundaries you needed to set around work and your hours and around parenting?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think that was just sort of something that came naturally, you know, trial and error over the year?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it had to come like for me, it kind of just became natural because I wanted to be home.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You only have that small window in the evening where you get to spend time with your kid before they go to sleep.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, you know, I wanted to be at home.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I'm, you know, I feel very fortunate that I do have the supports that I do, where if something popped up and I thought, like, oh, I really should be at that event.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: There were, there was no pushback from my husband or anyone.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: My whole village kind of worked around to make sure that I could be at the events that I felt like I wanted to be at or needed to be at.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that kind of just created the balance in itself.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: But like I said, I think I'm sure I hope I could have gotten here if I chose not to have children to have a work-life balance.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'm not saying you can't have a work-life balance unless you have a kid and you have an epiphany and figure it out.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it made me just like truly realize how you have to actively create that work-life balance and that just having a kid doesn't automatically create a work-life balance.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Cause you can easily still work.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I still have had to work into the evening and go to events and work on evening, like and work on weekends and all of that, is just again looking at what that looks like.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe instead of attending the like the workshop for the entire day, I split it up into going three times instead of being there for like the entire time.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just intentionally making those changes, um, which, you know, are is hard to do because they became habits.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you just think that, or I would think that that is just part of the role and my day-to-day at the office.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I just had to change my work habits, which was hard.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt guilty not doing things.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, it's the fear of missing out on things.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's real even for work.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been challenging, but it's, I think I think we figured it out.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be completely different come April, May when I go back when just like navigating, you know, looking in the fall.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: My son's gonna go to kindergarten and daycare.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that whole, that whole structure that we have kind of figured out right now just goes out the window and we just we'll have to create a new one.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you have any sort of peers or mentors that are either have walked down this path or are walking down it now that you can ask questions to or bounce things off of?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you feel like you're kind of walking this path on your own?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like like I have so much, like I said, we've already talked about like I have an amazing support system, but outside of like family, I even think like sometimes when I just like post something online, for example, the mom community is like everyone is so encouraging and like you're so exhausted, and everyone's like, you're doing great, it's really hard.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, like the social media aspect of it where if people choose to share their motherhood kind of journey on it, I've always found like it's been like you're you, Meg, have been like one of the most supportive moms.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I post things, you're like so encouraging.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I look up to you so much as a mother that hearing thing like something like that come from you, it's like, okay, it's okay.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone goes through this, we're gonna be fine.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to say, like, you know, I have a lot of colleagues from the other music industry associations that are moms in the same role as me.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they have been like phenomenal supports when I was let everyone know I was pregnant.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: They were always really encouraging.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a few of them have two children, and I was going from one to two.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just like a lot of advice of like, you know, it is gonna be more challenging to navigate travel with two children versus one, uh, just because of it just being more challenging.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that is another aspect of like I'm really looking forward to going back to work to uh really re-engage uh with some of those moms and my colleagues just because it's nice to know if I am traveling and you know, you're going out for dinner, you're surrounded by moms that are all kind of feeling the same thing you're feeling, and they've just like they're wonderful human beings and just you know, uh uh yeah, I look up to them so much of like just seeing how they mother and navigate their careers.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it just seems so it just is like it's nice to see, it's nice to look up to uh to see that other women, other mothers are doing it.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that hasn't been the case in, you know, pre-kids.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a ton of women, moms in the music industry to look up to that were in higher level positions.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just been so amazing that that's changed over the years.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it coincides with me becoming a mother in this role that now I do have colleagues and peers to like look up to for support and just advice.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice to have other moms.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is one thing that you hope the next generation of mothers after us experiences differently in the music industry?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this again is like my probably like based on my like personal experience.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, everybody has their own journey.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, I feel like I I did I wouldn't have put an expectation that I needed to achieve a certain level of success before starting a family.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's like a very personal thing because I don't even know what that level of success looked like.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I constantly put a barrier into I wouldn't be able to do this in my role, or I wouldn't be able to do this in my role if I had a family, if I had kids, uh, because it would hold me back in a way.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's just something I put on myself.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope if anyone else is putting that kind of pressure or expectations on themselves, know that it is, you know, it is hard, but it's possible.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you there is, there are people out there that are doing it and are so supportive and incur and supporting you if you choose to do it to start a family.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, I just look at all these like badass musicians too that are just having kids, taking their kids on tour.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that just becomes the norm, you know.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I at music festivals and on tours, it's the norm for there to be a nursing station.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's the norm for there to be like diapers available, things like that at these events, just to like really normalize children being at events and that moms don't have to stay at home.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: They can take their babies and there's a support system around them to encourage travel and make it easier.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think I hope we're moving in that direction when it comes to events.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think we are slowly, uh, but I do hope like the next generation, it's just it's easier for moms to be able to travel with their children.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have a couple of quick questions for you, but I wanted to tell you a quick story first.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: A couple months after my son, we were in Red Deer for the Country Music Alberta Awards, and I was on the board, so I was working, and I was only like two or three months postpartum, so I was breastfeeding, and I brought this pump that like barely worked because I thought my husband and my son were gonna come.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, one day I'll be fine.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: There was a snowstorm, so they couldn't come.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: I felt so awkward taking a pumping break.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it nobody else was taking a break.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt like I couldn't be like, okay, I gotta go to my room for 30 minutes to pump.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I just didn't.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we did the show, and I was doing sound cues and I was so engorged.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was literally running to the bathroom to like shove a paper towel in my bra.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: The show ends.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: I immediately put on house music and book it down the hallway trying to get to my room.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I passed you and your husband walking, and I don't even remember what I said, but I know I yelled something at you, like, oh my god, my boobs hurt so much.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you said something back about like, oh I know, I just pumped too.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And just that moment made me feel so much better because nobody else would understand the feeling of engorged breasts that way.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that you did.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And just like seeing you in the hallway for even a second, I felt so much better.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for sharing that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: That that was my one of my first trips.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was on maternity leave, I think.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even remember, but I remember going back to the hotel room every couple hours and pumping and like making sure there was a fridge in the room and bringing a cooler and and yeah, it was it's it's tough to it's tough to have to do that.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: But again, like it's one of those things where let's normalize it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's our our bodies are producing milk and we have to do it to our children, and it's like, I gotta go pump.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, see you in 30.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like now I probably wouldn't even go to my room.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would probably just strap them on and let's go.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, I was like, this is so embarrassing.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, a couple quick questions for you.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a particular time of day that's harder for you to take a work call?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I cannot answer the call at dinner time.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are crazy between five and six.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am out.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any time that sticks out to you as like, don't even try to contact me?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, like I feel like I'm still in this maternity leave bliss that if I like I've I've taken a few courses while I've been on maternity leave.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes it's been like my husband comes home, I hand him the baby, I've prepared dinner and the toddler's dinner, and I leave the house and I go and work for a couple hours and then I come back for bedtime.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's like again, it's like preparing it, but I think it will completely change when I'm back at work.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: But like right now, we sort of like just trade off and make it work.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, feel really fortunate.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like sometimes I'm like, I need to get out of the house.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go work on because I do some graphics for my husband.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm gonna go work on these graphics.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be back in an hour.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, okay.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it is total chaos at home.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I still, you know, that's prioritizing like in like my mental health, where it's like, I need an hour of just even I just need to stare at the computer for an hour and not do anything.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like I feel really fortunate that there are times where I can just do that.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, that's that totally is based on the schedule of like when my husband's working.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: For example, on my first maturity, when I went back to work with my first, my husband went on tour to Australia for three weeks.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there was no time to answer a phone call or do anything.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it kind of depends what's going on at the time.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like right now, again, it's kind of like in a little bliss window where I have that flexibility, but I know that's gonna change when I go back to work for sure.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: What is assuming that your son has decided to sleep, what is your go-to after bedtime routine?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, right now, after bedtime routine is I'm in a band, so I play bass.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been a really new thing for me to put the kids to bed, have some tea, have a glass of wine, and practice bass or go to band practice has been really exciting.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I've been taking some courses.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's opening my computer and just like using my brain in a way that it's hard to right now doing that.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I really love it because it's, you know, it's it has nothing to do with my job.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like improving, like my person, not improving, but it's, you know, growing my personal interests or reading a book, or honestly just watching Gray's Anatomy for like the tenth time.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's been like those are my go-tos right now.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just like not doing anything.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And me and my husband just sit there and just talk about our children for two hours before we're like totally exhausted and be like, why didn't we just go to sleep?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we still awake?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been fun to have those hobbies to to focus on and yeah, take some of those courses that I've always wanted to take, but just didn't have the capacity to do it when I was at work.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is one household task you'd outsource permanently if money was no object?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have a personal assistant, like hands down.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I say it every day.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: I say it every day.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would love a personal assistant to be like, like I like doing certain tasks.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes I like going grocery shopping and stuff, but I'm talking about like, go find me like a really cool outfit.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do that.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like little tasks, I would have, I totally would have a personal assistant.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a uh weird thing to say because that is such an extreme luxury to have.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I would totally have a personal assistant.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is one thing that you no longer apologize for?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: I no longer apologize for being unavailable.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't apologize for not being able to go for a lunch with a girlfriend or bailing on book club, or yeah, um, like I still I'm still obviously like there for my friends if they need me, but kind of just those things where it's like, you know what, I I'm tired.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I don't have the capacity to have a conversation.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also like fair for like my friends to be like, I'm not gonna be a good friend if we go for lunch.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm so tired, I'm zoned out, like I'm gonna probably cry six times and I just don't want to do that.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I I guess I just like I don't apologize for yeah, just not being available.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like used to do that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I used to like feel bad, I have to do it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've said yes, I've committed to it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've just recognized how important it is for my mental health to put those uh put those breaks in.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, like I said, I recognize that if I go to a book club or go out with my friends or even band practice, it's like I'm not gonna be a good player, I'm not gonna be contributing to anything that we're talking about.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna stay home.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the season.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: You are in the season of protecting your peace, and good for you.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: My last question for you is where do you see yourself and your family in five years?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, that's interesting.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking a lot about this.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason we've been talking a lot about this is because one of the courses I recently took is like a financial literacy course where it was like really identifying like just your goals.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to intentionally write down goals for like one year, three years, five years and where you actually did want to see yourself and to kind of set yourself up for that.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I it was it was really difficult looking ahead.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like both kids will be in school, assuming like we're gonna be in Edmonton.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I do love my job, but I would like to see myself either running my own company or possibly having uh moved up into a higher level position with maybe it within another organization or company, so that I can like I really would like to continue growing my skills and contributing.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of see ourselves as like a household where my husband is running his film television company with his friends and developing that.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so it's kind of one of those challenging questions for me to answer because I can just see it's so dependent on how different areas of like my career path and my husband's career path moves.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's so many possibilities as to what can happen, which is exciting.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, me and my husband have been talking a lot about working together and what that looks like and what that could look like with building a company.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's been something that I've been thinking about a lot.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I would, I would really like to see myself in a higher position within an organization.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: I hit the ceiling at Alberta Music, uh, which I've been so fortunate to be there, and I'm so excited to go back to it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like I've learned so much within that organization that I think I can contribute to um a different organization in a different way.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: What that organization looks like or company looks like, I don't know.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if it will be music.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it will be um, you know, like switching my focus to creative cities or working within the city or the government or, you know, I'm really excited for growth over the next five years.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And a big part of it is is prioritizing like my career path and the growth within what I can do.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I learned a lot about you, which is so funny, the way that you can know somebody for years and not actually like sit down and pick their brain for an hour.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like this was like when you emailed me about this, I was so excited because when I became a mom, I immediately was like, I want to start a podcast where we can like talk about our jobs and being a mom and basically what you created.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for creating it and doing it because it's been in my head for three years and it's just would have continued sitting as an idea.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so glad that you're doing it and kind of show like highlighting moms working in the music industry and just like the different types of paths people can take.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool, and I'm super pumped you're doing it.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.