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Rerelease: When Faith Breaks Trust: A Sacred Story - Part Two with Hannah May · Echoes & Edges

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: So there's something about you as a woman, you as
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: a person and the light that you carry. That's there's
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: just been a lot of assault on it.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So you have obviously here we are today. You found
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: your voice. Tell us just a little bit about what
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: reclaiming your voice looked like after all of these different
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: iterations of blame.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Definitely been a journey and a process right um so
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: many of us pay a really high price for using
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: our voice for standing up and speaking to power but
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: going into nftc i think i was 50 the year
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: that i went into nftc and i gave myself the
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: gift at 50 of i am going to confront people
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: who have harmed me and who need to be held accountable.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I'd had a counselor who I'd worked with for three
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: years intensely. He had a breakdown of some kind. He
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: turned on me and started sharing his suicidal ideations with me,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: other clients' letters, like it was a really bad situation
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: and I had to leave his care. Yeah, it was
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: really crazy. And so that was so wounding to me
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: because I was finally getting some really good care. And
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: then just whatever happened, happened. And it took me six
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: years to to process through the forgiveness and the anger
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: and the rage and the grief of that entire situation.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And so I confronted him for my 50th birthday and
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I sat him down with my counselor and my husband
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and I told him the ways that he had harmed
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: me and was able to offer him forgiveness because I
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: had been able to work through it to that point.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And it was so freeing for me because I didn't
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: need him to apologize. I didn't need anything from him.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I needed to use my voice to say, you harmed me.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: And you are a man who knew God and was
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: a Christian. And you hadn't, like, that's not acceptable. And
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: you are going to be held accountable for that. It's
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: taken me six years, but I forgive you. I forgive you.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I don't need you to say I'm sorry. And so
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that kind of opened the door. The SBC came out
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: with their report of the harm that had been happening
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: in the Baptist churches. And we were at the time
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: we were in a Baptist church. And when I looked
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: up my perpetrator online, I discovered that he is the
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: music minister for the largest church in his city and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: a professor there. and chair of several departments at the
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: SBC college that is there in the city. So I
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: was not at an SBC church when he abused me,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: but they said, we want victims to reach out and
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: to share their stories. They had a law firm that
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: was set up to take our depositions and our, our information.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: And so I reached out to them and said like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: he wasn't in the SBC then, but he is now,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: do you want to hear my story? And the reason
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I wanted to share my story was, was not because
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I thought I was going to be taken seriously or
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: cared for. But I wanted to add my voice to
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the mix. Because this is a powerful, powerful man. He
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: is still a very, very powerful man, and has the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: life that people would say they would dream of having.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: And I know 100% he is still out there doing
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: exactly what he did when he was 35. I have
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: no doubt because he's not a man that was going
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to change his ways. And so I thought, what if
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: One other woman comes forward to speak against him and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: her voice is the only voice that's there. I want
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: to use my voice so that if someone else comes forward,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: she's got to back up. It won't matter for me.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I am not going to see justice this side of
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: heaven in that situation. And do you know that they
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: never even acknowledged receipt of my report? They never even
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: acknowledged it. And again, I'm not surprised. I'm not hurt
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: by that. It's actually par for the course. It's clarity.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It's clarity. And so when my husband read the report,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: we both read the report. It's like 300 pages long.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: We read it all. He has spent a good majority
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: of his career in law and with nonprofits and in
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the business sector. He said it is the most evil
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: thing he has ever read in his entire life. Like
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: there's nothing gray about it. And so because we were
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: in an SBC church at the time, a lot of
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: them were trying to decide what to do. And so
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: they were asking us to up our engagement with the church.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: And so I went to them and I shared with them,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: both the leaders and the elders, I said, I'd like
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to share my story with you. And I'd like to
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: ask you to consider leaving the SBC. We had been
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: there 11 years serving. small groups, coaching, small group leaders, mentoring,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you know, we were thrilled to do that. It was
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: like so much a part of our heart of what
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: we wanted to do. And so we finally sat down
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: with them and met with them and shared my story.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: And they were so gracious and so empathetic, but they
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: did not feel the conviction to leave the SBC. And
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: our conviction was we would no longer be aligned with
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: churches within the SBC. And so after 11 years, we
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: found ourselves looking for a new church home unexpectedly. And
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: that's a very different situation than the leadership at my
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: church that shamed me. A lot of the churches see
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: it as a complicated situation. So they did not abuse
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: me in any way, shape, or form. I just was
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: heartbroken to... have us be on different pages about the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: right path forward and how to handle that situation. And
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: so I have to tell you, like, again, that really
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: hit me hard from a church perspective. And it took
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: a long, it took a year or more before I
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: was able to walk back through the doors of a church.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I would, I would watch online and say like, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. But,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: you know, again, God and his faithfulness, has shown through
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: in the midst of the very imperfect humanity of the church.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I think that this is a good point to talk
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: about intent. You know, in Dan Allender's eloquent way, intentions
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: are shit.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: He's so eloquent. I love Dan.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Because on one hand it's different because there was compassion
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and they believed you.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Right.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: On the other hand, there is in there. And I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: understand there is a lot of complexity when you're talking
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: about a whole church, leaving a system rather, you know,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and all the things, but it's actually not that much
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: different at the end of the day, even if the
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: intentions are good. There is this leaving you, there is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: this way of not aligning with the disabuse, like with,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: with the, with the part, you know, so like the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: way of Jesus was always, this is what finally clarified
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: my faith for me was who did Jesus hang out with?
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Who did Jesus hang out with? He sure as hell
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: didn't hang out with the SBC leaders. The Pharisees of
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the time were the ones that got the sharp end
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of Jesus's tongue.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: As they should have.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: As they should have. And it's the people that were harmed, hurt,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: not taken up for, that got the gentleness, the Jesus
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: that's gentle, that shows up, that communes with us, that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: protects and doesn't protect us from harm. I mean, that's the,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: that's part of the.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Process, right? Part of the challenge for people. Yeah.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And also, um, acknowledges the injustice.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yes. And does not align with it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Does not align with it. That's the thing, you know?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: And so I just want to say, oof, That's a lot.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I respect that the relationship there was really important to you.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And I see the pain of having to leave after
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: 11 years of finally, after finally having found some safety
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and ways to use your gifting that felt good to
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: you and to your husband as well. There's so many,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: so many points in the story. I mean, we could
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: spend hours and hours and, and really decades, unwrapping this,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you know, over and over and over again, because it's
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: so important. It's so complex. And it's so courageous of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: you to continue to come forward and not align with
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: abusive powers and to keep fighting for 17 year old
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you for nine or 10 year old you. I just,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I just bless you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Bless you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Bless you for that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I I really respect you for that.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And so you've talked a lot about God as he
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: was represented to you in, in very, very abusive ways,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: but also this thread of of experiencing God in a
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: way that you've been able to actually come back to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: over and over again, as true, as kind, as honest
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and supportive and loving. So talk to the listeners about how,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: how have you come to disentangle God? Now, first of all,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: let me just say this. Some of this cannot be explained.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: There is a mystery behind, We are not trying to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: create a certainty here. Like there is a mystery to
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the profound connection with the Holy Spirit and with God
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: in trauma.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: But talk to the listeners about how to disentangle God
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: from the failures of church, of people who represent God.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about that because it's a really important
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: topic and it's one that I'm passionate about because I've
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: had to wrestle with so much with my relationship with God,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: with being in spaces at 21 where, I mean, my
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: thing was F off. Like literally that's what I said
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to God. Thank goodness. I just like, yeah, like, no,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I love the Lord so much. And my heart is
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: for people who are hurting, who are wondering, where is God?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Does he see me? Does he love me? Why did
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: he let this happen? Um, And like you said, I'm
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: so glad you did. Like there is a mystery. There
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: is a mystery and an unknowing. Like we cannot explain
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: away everything today. We cannot answer all the questions. So
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I will not give tried answers. I will not tell you, well,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you just need to believe in God or he's there
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: even if you can't feel him. Like that's not helpful.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: But I would ask you to ponder this. if you
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: can find moments in your heart where you remember he
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: was there, can you go back to that place in
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: that space? Because I know for me, the light shines
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it. And
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: the light and the love that I have experienced through
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Christ in the spirit, the triune God is so powerful.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: drastically different than the harm and the abuse. And, you know,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the Bible is clear, like love is patient. It's kind.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: It does not keep a record of wrongs. You know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: the fruits of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: If the people who are representing God do not look
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: like Jesus, do not talk like Jesus, it's okay for
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: you to walk away. Find a new space. It's hard,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: but what you're going to do hard. So do the
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: hard that's going to lead you to a better place,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to something that's more whole, that's more shalom. And I
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: think that you got to get real with God. You
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: got to get real with God and got to have
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: people around you that will let you be real. Like
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I remember there was in my 30s, I was like
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: in a marriage that wasn't working. And I was just like,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. And I was having
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: all these flashbacks and things from the past, right? Because
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: all my memories started coming back. Like they weren't going
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to stay hidden away. The truth kept coming and knocking
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: on my door. And we get a choice as to
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: whether we're going to let her in or not. But
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I had no one in my life I could talk to.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And I was reading all the books I could get
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: on healing and land pain and that, you know, John
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Eldredge and, you know, all the things just trying to
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: find God. And I just spaced off with them. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I said, I got some really hard questions for you
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: and you're going to, you're going to have to answer
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: them because if you cannot answer these questions, if you
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: cannot help me make sense of what I have been
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: through and what has happened to me and what it
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: all means, then you are not God. Then you are
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: not big enough to be called God. Like you've got
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: to show up. And, and he did. And again, like
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: we can't cover all the basis of everything. Like, We
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: go through periods of the wilderness. We go through periods
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: of desolation. And in these different places, we need different guides.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: We need different resources. But it's important to be able
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to have an open, honest relationship with God and not
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: to pretty yourself up before you show up. I still
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: do it sometimes, right? I still think I need to
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: get it together. But it's just insane because He catches
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: our tears sometimes. How close do you have to be
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: to someone to catch their tears? I believe that He
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: weeps on our behalf. I believe that He weeps and
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: grieves along with us. And I think that sometimes it's
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: easier to be angry at God than to hold people
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: responsible that need to be held responsible. The struggle is
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: worth it because the light that comes in when you
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: feel and experience the Holy Spirit It's different.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: If I could sum it up in a sentence, it's
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: you have to believe yourself.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: You have to believe your own experience of God over
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: what you're told about him, about yourself, about the authority
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: over you.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So what also do we have to believe about our
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: own bodies then? Like if I'm going to believe myself,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and sometimes memories are only stored in the body, right?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Memory is a funny thing.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when we've been through difficult things, sometimes we're not
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: going to have a visual memory. That's right. It may
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: be too much for us to cognitively remember, but we
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: do have the memory within our body. And I have
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: learned I can trust my body. And you can trust
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: your body. I want you to hear that you can
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: trust your body. It is a trustworthy body. It's a brilliant, wise,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: unbelievable container of all you need to know.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the things that I liked as
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: a fellow trauma survivor, one of the things I would
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: want to add for listeners is that that our body intelligence,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the body keeps the score, the body wisdom
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: when the body says no by Gabor Mate. These are
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: not like as adults and adult relationships and complicated stories
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: with other stories. Our body wisdom is not telling us
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: what's happening about with somebody else. Our body wisdom is
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: never going to tell us somebody else's story. That's just codependency. So,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I feel like that gets not extrapolated out very well.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So I just want to make that really clear. Our
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: body wisdom is telling us what we need, what we need.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And that's the hard thing to really take ownership of
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: is sometimes I need things that will separate me from
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: things I want.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And so believing myself is, might take me out of
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: relationships that I really wish I had.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right. Yes. That's a hard truth.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: It is a hard, hard truth.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes. But a life giving life giving and coming
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: back to being alive, coming back to like how we
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: reclaim who we really are created to be. Like it is,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: that is a worthy journey to take.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Yes. It's not, it's not sexy.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It's not sexy at all. At all. It's real messy
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and ugly.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Painful. Sometimes it takes us literally to financial poverty. Sometimes to...
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I know women who it's taken to homelessness and have
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: never regretted it. There is something so important about believing ourselves.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: They have the courage to be homeless. Yes. That was courage.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: That is courage.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And God bless them for that. Yes. To take that risk,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to know that they can trust themselves. They can trust
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: their bodies. They are telling the truth.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: The truth.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah. Beautiful.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Well, Hannah, I look forward to talking more in the future.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: That would be great. Yes, we will.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: We'll continue to talk. But anything you'd want to add
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: to this conversation that's lingering in your own good body
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: or heart? our mind that's just kind of come.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Up? I think what comes up is I would ask
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you to not give up on God, to wrestle with it,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: but to not give up. Don't give up. And find
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: people that can help you in the midst of the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: journey and the struggle and the weariness that comes.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the things about being connected
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: globally that's good, that I find is good, is that
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: we actually do have access to resources that we have
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: never had access to before. So you are not alone.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: If you're someone that just doesn't know what the next
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: step is, you are not alone. Please reach out. You
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: can reach Hannah at thebrokenandbeautiful.com. You can reach me at thebrokenandbeautiful.com.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: We have 21 coaches and counselors and spiritual directors, people
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that are deeply trauma-informed, have done their own work. Where else?
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I know Sacred Story Space. How would they reach you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: through Sacred Story Space? Talk to listeners about that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: So the website should be up and running by the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: end of December, but you can email me at sacredstoriespace
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: at gmail.com. Or you can find me through the link
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: at The Broken and the Beautiful or LinkedIn and Instagram
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: at Sacred Story Space.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: To listeners, you know, if today's conversation stirred grief or
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: anger or perhaps memories, there might be something that you're
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: trying really hard right now to hold under the water
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: that you just haven't touched in a long time. I
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: want you to know that you're not alone. That really,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: we are here for you. Your story matters. Your voice matters.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: All of the weight that you might feel bubbling up,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: or it just might feel like anger. You might not
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: have any of those particular things stirring. You might just
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: have a sense of annoyance stirring. That's also very important
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to listen to. All of it matters. All of these
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: things are data points. But here's what I want you
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to know is it's not enough to say these kinds
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of experiences are not your fault, but it has to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: be said that these kinds of experiences are not your fault.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: It's not enough to say that. And the silence of churches,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the silence of other people, the complicity of actual other
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: people in your harm does not diminish the reality and
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the truth of your experience. And it does matter. Spiritual
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: harm cuts deep because it hits the places where we
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: hoped for safety and meaning. I call it a soul wound.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: But harm is not the end of the story, doesn't
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: have to be. There is a quieter, oftentimes harder to hear,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: but truer belonging waiting for you. One grounded in dignity, courage,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and the voice that is returning to you. So please
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: do hear us that God is not the harm that's
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: done to you. God is not the silence that followed you.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: God is the one who moves toward you in truth,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: in tenderness, and in every new beginning. And that is
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not a simple, it's not simple. And it's not meant
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: to be. So Hannah, thank you so much for your
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: honesty and authenticity. I mean, we covered a lot of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: ground today and your vulnerability is shining a light so
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: bright to me in this moment and to so many
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: others that will hear this. And I just leave you
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: with that blessing and a prayer that more and more
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: will turn and look and see. Yeah.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Such an honor to be with you. Thank you so
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: much for inviting me on. Thank you. What a gift.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: What a gift.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: If this episode resonates with you, follow or subscribe to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: five-star review and share with a friend who might need
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a gentle invitation to self-understanding. Echoes and Edges is produced
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: and edited by Stephen R. Sanders. Music promoted by Envato.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges is part of the Vivid Livid Podcast Network,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: where bruises speak and healing finds its voice.