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20. How Family Constellations Heal Ancestral Patterns & Transform Your Life with Sonia Neffati · Constellations and all that...

• 0:05
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:08
  Tracy: I'm your host Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:28
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:31
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:38
  Tracy: Kia ora everyone, welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:41
  Tracy: Looking forward to sharing more exciting adventures and conversations with you all this year.
• 0:46
  Tracy: Today I have the honour of talking with Sonia Nafeti.
• 0:50
  Tracy: And Sonia I'm going to hand over to you to introduce yourself as I always do with my guests, um, and share a little bit with the viewers and the listeners.
• 0:58
  Tracy: about who you are.
• 1:00
  Sonia: Thank you.
• 1:00
  Sonia: Well, I'm super happy to be here.
• 1:02
  Sonia: Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:04
  Sonia: If you pick up the accent, I'm French of Tunisian descent.
• 1:09
  Sonia: I know that not a lot of people know where Tunisia is, so it's just between Algeria and Libya, the northern part of Africa.
• 1:16
  Sonia: So I've been in New Zealand for 17 odd years now, and I consider myself as a Kiwi.
• 1:24
  Sonia: And, uh, um, so I've done a lot of things in my life.
• 1:28
  Sonia: I've traveled a lot.
• 1:29
  Sonia: I'm fully and completely passionate about self development, about understanding the human behavior, uh, why they do what they do.
• 1:40
  Sonia: And very often there's reasons and it's not to see the world as black and white.
• 1:46
  Sonia: And that has helped me immensely to be way more compassionate and understanding towards myself and towards others.
• 1:54
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Sonia: That's pretty much in a nutshell who I am to start with.
• 2:00
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 2:01
  Tracy: Where did you first meet constellations?
• 2:04
  Sonia: Oh, uh, in France.
• 2:06
  Sonia: Um, so actually the, the, the beginning of the beginning was a book, a French book that I read many years ago.
• 2:14
  Sonia: And in that book, she mentioned family constellation, and I've never heard of it before.
• 2:18
  Sonia: But as soon as I saw that word, I don't know what happened in me.
• 2:22
  Sonia: I went straight on internet and I looked for it.
• 2:25
  Sonia: So there was something that actually called me to have a look at it.
• 2:28
  Sonia: And since then, I've been very passionate about it.
• 2:32
  Sonia: I've done, can't even remember how many sessions, um, in family constellations.
• 2:37
  Sonia: I've always been the kind of person who likes looking at the past and try to understand the past, which is a big component of family constellation.
• 2:46
  Sonia: Because to be able to move forward, you actually have to look back to make sure that any blockages or any unresolved issues have been sorted, and then you can actually do what you need to do.
• 3:00
  Sonia: So it's been many, many years that I've been in that, in that field.
• 3:04
  Tracy: And you trained in France or in New Zealand?
• 3:07
  Sonia: In France, so I trained in France so I can do family constellations in, in French and in English.
• 3:14
  Sonia: Yeah, I have, I have clients all around the world.
• 3:17
  Sonia: So, you know, like you, you just need to be face to face, you know, and sometimes even over the phone.
• 3:23
  Sonia: Now, when I do sessions with actually my therapist from, from a long, long time, we actually don't even look at each other.
• 3:31
  Sonia: It's done over the phone, you know, and we know because it's all energetic.
• 3:35
  Sonia: So I am allowing her and she's allowing me and that's how it works.
• 3:39
  Tracy: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 3:41
  Tracy: How would you describe Constellations to someone who's never heard of it before?
• 3:47
  Tracy: So say you're out at a barbecue or a dinner or something like that.
• 3:50
  Tracy: This is one of, I love this question because there's always, I get such a variety of answers.
• 3:55
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 3:55
  Sonia: yeah.
• 3:56
  Sonia: I do get that question asked very often by people around me.
• 4:01
  Sonia: Quite often, like in my mind, I have that very complicated theory, you know, using the right words.
• 4:09
  Sonia: To explain what family constellation is, but I've been thinking about that for a long time.
• 4:13
  Sonia: And like, if I had to explain it to my daughter, what will I say?
• 4:17
  Sonia: And it's pretty much what has happened with your ancestors.
• 4:22
  Sonia: So with the people before you, things that haven't been sorted, emotions or issues or some kind of events, they have an impact in your life.
• 4:33
  Sonia: And you don't even know about it very often.
• 4:36
  Sonia: And family constellation helps you to actually bring that to light.
• 4:40
  Sonia: Have a look at it, honor it, and release it with love and compassion.
• 4:46
  Sonia: So the whole point of family constellation, it's not to point fingers and say, Oh, you know, because of my grandfather or because of my grandmother and all that stuff.
• 4:54
  Sonia: Not at all.
• 4:55
  Sonia: It's actually honoring them, being understanding and compassionate because it's not even very often.
• 5:04
  Sonia: It's all the time when I finish sessions, people feel honored and feel compassion towards their ancestors.
• 5:13
  Sonia: Because beyond the difficulties or the challenge that they come, you know, to try to resolve, there's also a lot of positive things.
• 5:23
  Sonia: Behind all the things that they've done.
• 5:25
  Sonia: So they're not just, um, weak people or mean people or not, not at all.
• 5:31
  Sonia: They also strong.
• 5:32
  Sonia: They also brave the, you know, there's, there's that part of it that I always tell clients, you know, it's important to also honor your ancestors because they've gone through some hard stuff.
• 5:46
  Sonia: And if we were in their shoes, I don't think that we will do the same.
• 5:50
  Sonia: Maybe we will be even worse than them.
• 5:53
  Sonia: So it's easier to say, oh, because of my grandmother, I've inherited, um, you know, that, that belief about men, you know, like, so all the men are the same or relationships are bad or limiting belief that you may have.
• 6:08
  Sonia: Yes, there's that.
• 6:09
  Sonia: But also there's behind that the fact that if the grandmother has.
• 6:15
  Sonia: launch that limiting belief, it's also to protect you.
• 6:19
  Sonia: The original, and that's what I want to believe, that the original, the reason why they've done that is to protect you.
• 6:26
  Sonia: It's clumsy, it's not appropriate for our life, but the reason was actually to protect you, first and foremost.
• 6:34
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 6:35
  Tracy: One of, one of the things I really love about Constellations is it's allowed me to spend time in some of the exercises that I do and, and some of the ones that come in that I, that I create to spend time with ancestors that, or, and the energy of the ancestors that I've never even thought of before.
• 6:53
  Sonia: Mm-hmm.
• 6:54
  Tracy: You know, because quite often we are thinking of our parents and our grandparents and maybe our great grandparents.
• 6:59
  Tracy: Maybe some, some people don't even go as far as grandparents, but.
• 7:04
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 7:05
  Tracy: For me, I was kind of like grandparents and then a little bit about my great grandparents.
• 7:09
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Tracy: There's an exercise that I've created where I actually step through and go and, and see who's there for me to resource me for the day.
• 7:19
  Tracy: And sometimes I've gone and, and.
• 7:22
  Tracy: places.
• 7:23
  Tracy: And I thought, wow, I've never even thought about that ancestor before.
• 7:26
  Tracy: It might be my, my grandmother's mother's father's mother's father, sort of, you know, on that sort of line.
• 7:33
  Tracy: And it's like, wow, it's so amazing.
• 7:37
  Sonia: It is.
• 7:38
  Sonia: It is.
• 7:38
  Sonia: It's quite beautiful.
• 7:40
  Sonia: It's, it's, it's really amazing when you get into that energy field, that it's either for yourself or for.
• 7:46
  Sonia: Uh, your clients.
• 7:47
  Sonia: It's quite amazing the energy that you receive.
• 7:50
  Sonia: Yes, at the beginning, it's a bit challenging and tense and, you know, anxious.
• 7:54
  Sonia: But as you go through the session, actually, you only feel love and proud to be, you know, the descendant of that ancestor or, you know, and realize that Wow, actually, I'm quite lucky to be part of that family, you know, despite all the things that, you know, have been said and done.
• 8:15
  Sonia: Lucky to be
• 8:15
  Tracy: alive too, aren't we?
• 8:16
  Tracy: Oh gosh.
• 8:17
  Tracy: When you think about it, what's come true sometimes.
• 8:19
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 8:19
  Sonia: yeah, exactly.
• 8:20
  Sonia: And I believe that nowadays, there's not a lot of reason to justify the fact that you're not going to have a look at that.
• 8:29
  Sonia: You have all those therapies and consciousness and internet and all the books to be able to actually look at your life and look at your ancestors and say, okay, I can see that there's something in me right now that feels like it's not mine.
• 8:46
  Sonia: And, and, and, and I know that clients very often don't pick up that, but the way I explain it to them is if you realize that you're doing things over and over again, and that.
• 8:58
  Sonia: your current life does not justify that behavior, that emotion, that belief system, then there's a high chance it does not belong to you.
• 9:10
  Sonia: For those who believe that could be past life and it's also transgenerational.
• 9:16
  Sonia: Do you have any examples of that for the listeners?
• 9:18
  Sonia: Oh, yeah.
• 9:19
  Sonia: I like, for example, I had a client.
• 9:21
  Sonia: She came to me.
• 9:22
  Sonia: So she's in France, and she explained to me her, you know, her current situation.
• 9:27
  Sonia: She has a lot of kids and a husband and you know, like, but she said, I don't understand.
• 9:31
  Sonia: I feel more than anger.
• 9:34
  Sonia: I feel rage.
• 9:35
  Sonia: And when I get into that mood, I can't control myself and everybody pays for it.
• 9:40
  Sonia: And she says, It's just too much.
• 9:43
  Sonia: It's costing my relationship with my husband, my relationship with my kids, and they are young.
• 9:50
  Sonia: So she couldn't understand why she felt that rage.
• 9:54
  Sonia: So through a lot of questions and after doing the session, so I won't get into too much details.
• 9:59
  Sonia: So we, we found exactly the entanglement that she had.
• 10:04
  Sonia: And she actually didn't need to go too far in her, genealogy.
• 10:10
  Sonia: And so we did the session.
• 10:13
  Sonia: And she texts me, I think, two or three days after that.
• 10:17
  Sonia: And she said, oh, I just want to give you some feedback.
• 10:21
  Sonia: So, I do get angry, because it's life, and because it's normal, but that's my anger, and I can control it, and I know why I feel angry, but there's no more that rage or that, so that feeling that was totally inappropriate for the situation.
• 10:40
  Sonia: So now she's in control of her own anger and she knows that it belongs to her and she felt actually after the session She felt very relieved which happens very often.
• 10:50
  Sonia: They feel like a Weight, you know lifted off the shoulders you feel the energy coming down and that's what happened to her So now she owns that anger which is you know, it's part of everyday life I mean with four kids and you know It's normal to feel angry, but it's not that totally disproportionate emotion that she used to feel.
• 11:15
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 11:17
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 11:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:19
  Tracy: I found sometimes for me in my own personal experience, you know, sometimes the constellations are like instant, right?
• 11:26
  Tracy: There's a shift within a day or two and others have taken a bit longer.
• 11:30
  Tracy: It's been a real peel.
• 11:32
  Tracy: One constellation may peel back many layers, but over time.
• 11:36
  Tracy: And another, it's just like, that was there ready to crack and it was ready to, to let go of.
• 11:42
  Tracy: So, yeah.
• 11:44
  Tracy: I
• 11:44
  Sonia: fully agree.
• 11:45
  Sonia: Sometimes you're ready.
• 11:46
  Sonia: And it's literally within a few minutes, it's done and you feel that release.
• 11:52
  Sonia: And you know, I've been doing that for many, many years.
• 11:54
  Sonia: And sometimes even now, after so many years, I'm like, gosh, I still feel that one like that.
• 12:00
  Sonia: I don't get it.
• 12:02
  Sonia: And it's like another angle that I couldn't see at that time because I was not meant to see it.
• 12:07
  Sonia: I was not ready or anything like that.
• 12:10
  Sonia: And now after so many years, I'm like, Oh, okay.
• 12:14
  Sonia: So now it's because to me it comes very slowly sometimes and it comes through my dreams or some kind of very small realization.
• 12:23
  Sonia: And it's when I start putting everything together that I'm like, hang on, there's something like something fishy there.
• 12:30
  Sonia: I need to have a look at that.
• 12:32
  Sonia: Yeah, it does take me months sometimes just to, to deal with that particular point.
• 12:39
  Tracy: Yeah, I had one particular constellation in, in Bali many years ago and, and, and over the years, it was like, Oh, there's another part to that.
• 12:48
  Sonia: Ah,
• 12:49
  Tracy: I could almost, I could just, it was so clear that it came back to that question that I'd put into the field.
• 12:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Tracy: And probably that's been the most significant one that's done that, whereas others have shifted kind of there or within the very short period of time.
• 13:04
  Tracy: And, and it did shift, but there was so much more that dropped in and dropped in.
• 13:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Tracy: It's
• 13:09
  Sonia: quite
• 13:09
  Tracy: amazing what we do, what we do carry and what we're entangled with.
• 13:14
  Sonia: Yes.
• 13:15
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 13:15
  Sonia: And like you, I do believe that it's like an onion at the beginning, you know, you tend to kind of release a lot very quickly.
• 13:23
  Sonia: But as you get deeper and deeper and deeper, it gets way more attuned way more.
• 13:29
  Sonia: It's kind of very deep.
• 13:30
  Sonia: So it's to me, it requires a certain Maturity and life experience and time to be able to reach those little ones that tend to be kind of ingrained really ingrained that to the point where you don't even, you don't see it, it's totally unconscious.
• 13:49
  Tracy: That's beautiful.
• 13:50
  Tracy: The descriptions when we, when we come to describing this work.
• 13:56
  Tracy: and sharing it with people.
• 13:58
  Tracy: Sometimes I find that I go through a very deep explanation for some people, and sometimes it's a very simple explanation.
• 14:05
  Tracy: And I like what you said before about sharing it, if you were explaining it to your daughter.
• 14:11
  Tracy: Isn't that the thing?
• 14:12
  Tracy: I don't know how old your daughter is, but they say, tell me as if I was a five year old, how would, how does this work?
• 14:18
  Sonia: Yeah, well, she's eight.
• 14:19
  Sonia: So
• 14:20
  Tracy: yeah.
• 14:20
  Tracy: So
• 14:20
  Sonia: now she kind of start to understand.
• 14:23
  Sonia: I use movies for them.
• 14:25
  Sonia: So she loves Disney like any kid or most of the kids rather.
• 14:31
  Sonia: And there's two movies, Disney movies to me that are just magnificent and represent family constellations so well.
• 14:39
  Sonia: So there's Coco.
• 14:41
  Sonia: And there's Encounter.
• 14:42
  Sonia: So to me, those who can't really understand Family Constellation, or it's kind of a bit too hairy fairy, watch those two movies and you will get it.
• 14:52
  Sonia: Because there's so many points in, like, for example, in Coco, that really explains how a challenge or difficulty starts happening in a family, and how from something that has happened for five generations, and there's actually not even the truth in it.
• 15:11
  Sonia: So then, you know, down the generation, so pretty much in Coco, it's the great grandfather disappeared and they don't know what happened to him.
• 15:20
  Sonia: But there's that story that has been created by the, by the wife saying, he has left me and my child.
• 15:30
  Sonia: So music is bad because if you play music, then you, you will end up abandoning your family.
• 15:38
  Sonia: So she says that to all the generation and then the next generation says that to the next one and you keep going like that.
• 15:45
  Sonia: And then you reach Miguel who is the, so the great grandson.
• 15:48
  Sonia: He's just a child who has that magnificent talent for music.
• 15:55
  Sonia: He has no idea where it comes from because in the family, there's that injunction, we do not play music.
• 16:01
  Sonia: We do not listen to music because music is bad as it leads.
• 16:05
  Sonia: people to abandon the family.
• 16:07
  Sonia: So that is that loyalty, because you do have that in Family Constellation.
• 16:12
  Sonia: So you have that loyalty towards that belief, which means that towards that family, so you cannot go against it, otherwise you'll be rejected by the family.
• 16:23
  Sonia: So he has that skill, he has that love for music, he can't understand what it is.
• 16:28
  Sonia: And then when he hands up on the other side, and meet his great grandfather, suddenly he hears the truth, the real story of what has happened to him.
• 16:37
  Sonia: So he didn't just abandon, he actually got, you know, he got killed.
• 16:41
  Sonia: And that's what I tell very often my clients, is if there's one person missing in that constellation, so in your family system, then that's, Will create an unbalancing the whole system many people, sometimes just one of the descendants will say, Oh, me, me, me, me, me, I'm linked to you.
• 17:02
  Sonia: I won't forget you and I will make sure that I live my life like you.
• 17:06
  Sonia: Or if, for example, that's a man that has disappeared as a woman, I'll be like, you know what, I'll be looking for you through all the men that I'm meeting.
• 17:15
  Sonia: Unconsciously.
• 17:16
  Sonia: So the impact is just absolutely massive.
• 17:19
  Sonia: If you know, and very often that's what happens is this someone missing in the constellation and everybody looks to that person and forgets to forget to leave unconsciously.
• 17:32
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:32
  Tracy: It's kind of like the system, the family system sort of, it's just puts its little wings around it.
• 17:38
  Tracy: We'll just keep that.
• 17:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:40
  Sonia: And you can see it like you have someone in the middle and then you have all the people around just looking at that person.
• 17:47
  Sonia: And then, you know, when you put the client near that person, suddenly she feels or he feels very comfortable and you're like, no, I like it here.
• 17:55
  Sonia: Yeah, but that's not your place.
• 17:57
  Sonia: You are entangled with someone who has passed away depending on the circumstances, but it means that you are not living, you are not living your life.
• 18:06
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 18:07
  Sonia: Just release him or her, just let it be.
• 18:10
  Sonia: And that's how, you know, that, that therapy is just absolutely amazing.
• 18:15
  Sonia: And it's, and it's just done with so much love.
• 18:18
  Sonia: To me, it's beautiful.
• 18:20
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:21
  Tracy: My first, first time I met it, I knew that this is what I was meant to do.
• 18:26
  Tracy: But like you, that calling, you know, you read it in the book and, and mine was sitting in the hot seat, not even knowing that, that, you know, I was even going to be in it.
• 18:35
  Tracy: At an event that day, so it kind of all just fell together and, and then, um, knowing that this is work that I was here to do, so, yeah, it is really, how, how has this work, If you don't mind sharing, and you're welcome to not, how has this work made an impact on your family system, if you don't mind?
• 18:57
  Sonia: Ooh, that has made a massive impact.
• 18:59
  Sonia: I'm, I'm the only one in my family who is interested in that.
• 19:03
  Sonia: And I guess that there's always a reason.
• 19:06
  Sonia: There's always one weird.
• 19:08
  Sonia: You know what I mean, always someone who's going to put their nose in, you know, things that sting and help actually the whole system.
• 19:17
  Sonia: So I have sisters.
• 19:20
  Sonia: And we, um, you know, we are obviously Tunisian, so with Tunisia comes, you know, a specific culture, a specific religion, a specific way to think about women, about men, about relationship.
• 19:34
  Sonia: So, you know, when you can't condition that way, you go through life.
• 19:39
  Sonia: Still thinking that way, thinking that it's absolutely normal to behave that way in a relationship or to think that, you know, men are like that or women are like that.
• 19:48
  Sonia: So, with my sisters, we've had, from the same conditioning, we've kind of had, we've applied it differently in each other's lives.
• 20:00
  Sonia: But the origin remained the same.
• 20:02
  Sonia: So when I do the work, because I work here, I've done that for so many years, it actually helps my sisters, but it also helps my daughter and my nieces.
• 20:15
  Sonia: And that's one of the reasons why I've always worked on myself, because I thought Well, I, I own my, you know, my staff and I don't want it to be my daughter's problem.
• 20:27
  Sonia: So yes, she will have her own stuff to deal with.
• 20:30
  Sonia: She came onto this life with her own thing, but whatever belongs to me and that I can deal with at my level, I'll do it.
• 20:38
  Sonia: I have the capacity to do it.
• 20:40
  Sonia: So I'll do it.
• 20:41
  Sonia: It's not okay to have those, that calling, as you say, and not actually do something with it.
• 20:48
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Sonia: That it's even if it had to just be for me and not actually be able to offer it to people, it doesn't matter, but at least I own it and I'll do it.
• 20:56
  Sonia: I'll do it for my sisters and I'll do it for, you know, like I said, for the descendants.
• 21:02
  Sonia: Because what has happened before, obviously at my mom, at my mom's generation, they didn't know that stuff.
• 21:09
  Sonia: They had no idea that, well, it kind of, yeah, kind of, it started in the eighties.
• 21:14
  Sonia: So before that she had absolutely no idea.
• 21:17
  Sonia: And my grandma, this generation, you can forget about it.
• 21:19
  Sonia: So they didn't have the opportunities to deal with what they had to deal with.
• 21:24
  Sonia: And to me, it's, even if it's difficult.
• 21:27
  Sonia: It's actually an honor that it has, that I have that path to be able to clear whatever I need to clear for myself and obviously also for the descendants because any work that I do will also work for the descendants because what I'm releasing is not done out of selfishness thinking, Oh, you know what?
• 21:47
  Sonia: That does not belong to me.
• 21:48
  Sonia: Just take it.
• 21:49
  Sonia: No, no.
• 21:50
  Sonia: It's actually, I'm giving back to them because it belongs to this story and they have the tools and the skills to deal with it.
• 21:57
  Sonia: That's theirs in the first place.
• 22:00
  Sonia: So that's how I see it.
• 22:02
  Sonia: So every time that I really something and unlike I said, sometimes it happens just me sitting on the table in the living room and suddenly something clicks and I'm like, okay, just, yeah, just sit and just do it.
• 22:14
  Sonia: And I will just do it instantly.
• 22:15
  Sonia: So now I've reached that point where I can actually do it like that, but I don't refuse it.
• 22:22
  Sonia: I don't try to control or I don't try to push it away.
• 22:26
  Sonia: It's part of who I am actually right now.
• 22:28
  Sonia: Maybe in few years, it's going to change.
• 22:30
  Sonia: I don't know.
• 22:31
  Sonia: But right now I feel like it's it's what I'm supposed to do.
• 22:35
  Sonia: And just for example, two days ago, I suddenly something came to mind that it had.
• 22:41
  Sonia: Well, it had an impact on me, but it also had an impact on my sisters.
• 22:45
  Sonia: So then the three of us kind of, you know, over conference call and talking about it and suddenly realizing, Oh, that's what for me.
• 22:52
  Sonia: And that is for me.
• 22:53
  Sonia: And suddenly the magic happens.
• 22:56
  Sonia: Because sometimes you don't even need a session for that, you just need to bring consciousness to it and feel it and you connect to that ancestor and you honor her or him.
• 23:08
  Sonia: In that particular case, it was her.
• 23:09
  Sonia: And just honor her the way you want.
• 23:11
  Sonia: So, you know, my sisters will do something else, I'll do something completely different.
• 23:15
  Sonia: But just take that time to honor that ancestor for what she has gone through and for what she gave us.
• 23:23
  Sonia: Because again, beyond the fact that we have the challenges, we also got bravery and strength and determination and love and passion and courage and all those beautiful things that we've been using.
• 23:39
  Sonia: all that time, despite the challenges that we had to face.
• 23:44
  Tracy: Sometimes we can be stuck on the challenges, right?
• 23:46
  Tracy: Yes.
• 23:47
  Tracy: Sometimes we can be stuck focusing on them, yeah.
• 23:49
  Sonia: Yes, exactly.
• 23:50
  Sonia: And we've been focusing on the challenge without realizing that, yes, there's that challenge, but we've still moved forward.
• 23:57
  Sonia: We've still kind of, you know, slowly but surely, even if you feel like you, you're wasting so much energy, it doesn't matter, you're still going.
• 24:05
  Sonia: And that is You know, again, it's not just the negative stuff that you're looking at.
• 24:11
  Sonia: You also have to honor and thank and be grateful for the positive things that they've given us.
• 24:18
  Tracy: So what else do you do alongside constellations?
• 24:22
  Sonia: Well, I've, because I've, I've trained in so many things, I, I offer Constellation first and foremost, but I'm also, um, Reiki level three.
• 24:33
  Sonia: I'm a rebirther also, I've trained in rebirth, breath work.
• 24:37
  Sonia: I have also another energy healing modality that I've learned from France.
• 24:42
  Sonia: And right now I'm focusing on trauma and PTSD.
• 24:47
  Sonia: I found that absolutely fascinating.
• 24:49
  Sonia: Yeah, obviously, you know, it's, it's a challenging theme, but there's so much things that we can be done to help people with PTSD.
• 24:58
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Sonia: So obviously the family constellation can help at, at its own level, but I don't believe that one modality can do everything, and I obviously do not believe that family constellation is like, that magical wand going to fix everything.
• 25:13
  Sonia: That's, that's not how it, or at least that's my personal belief.
• 25:16
  Sonia: I don't believe that, you know, it's, it's just done.
• 25:20
  Sonia: Um, so easily sometimes because we, we quite complex people and like we said earlier, one theme can be seen through different angles and sometimes different modalities will actually tackle it differently.
• 25:36
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Sonia: So, um, yeah, I do believe in that holistic view of, of therapy from, you know, very general
• 25:44
  Tracy: view of therapy.
• 25:46
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 25:47
  Tracy: Have you tried cacao for, with your clients for PTSD?
• 25:51
  Sonia: No, I haven't.
• 25:53
  Sonia: As a
• 25:54
  Tracy: support for them, because it's very, it's the polyphenols and the flavonols and all the amazing chemicals that are in it really help people with PTSD.
• 26:04
  Sonia: I can
• 26:06
  Tracy: test that myself.
• 26:07
  Sonia: Okay, that's good to know.
• 26:08
  Sonia: It's something that you
• 26:09
  Tracy: might want to have a little look into a little bit more.
• 26:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:12
  Tracy: Um, just even as a recommendation, you know that they say dark chocolate's good for you.
• 26:17
  Tracy: Because dark chocolate without any sugar in it, so.
• 26:21
  Sonia: Exactly.
• 26:22
  Sonia: Cannot be bad at all.
• 26:24
  Sonia: Yeah,
• 26:24
  Tracy: exactly.
• 26:25
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 26:27
  Tracy: That's one of my go tos.
• 26:28
  Tracy: Sure.
• 26:30
  Tracy: Okay.
• 26:30
  Tracy: So I'm just letting the field, um, guide me here.
• 26:33
  Tracy: So what's the next question?
• 26:35
  Tracy: So you, do you run workshops here?
• 26:38
  Sonia: Uh, I, at the moment I don't.
• 26:40
  Sonia: Um, so I'm based in Auckland, but, um, the, I do very often one-on-one sessions.
• 26:46
  Sonia: Mm-hmm . And like I said, I have clients a bit everywhere, so in France, in Canada, even in Indonesia.
• 26:51
  Sonia: So everything is done one-on-one, and I've realized that.
• 26:55
  Sonia: At least the clients that I have, they're not comfortable doing a group sessions because you obviously have to open up in front of strangers.
• 27:04
  Sonia: And I mean, like, you know, those stories can be quite challenging.
• 27:10
  Sonia: And, uh, and at this stage, I haven't, uh, I haven't done any, uh, workshop.
• 27:14
  Sonia: It's in the, in, in the near future though, because I, I enjoy it so much.
• 27:19
  Sonia: And, and the thing is the way I do the sessions.
• 27:22
  Sonia: I use papers and it's like having the people.
• 27:25
  Sonia: So actually having people will be even, you know, it will be quite different and quite, uh, quite interesting.
• 27:31
  Sonia: So yeah, I'm looking forward to organizing that.
• 27:34
  Tracy: Right, right.
• 27:35
  Tracy: So how would people find you if they wanted to have a session with you?
• 27:39
  Tracy: I know you're based in Auckland.
• 27:40
  Tracy: Yes.
• 27:42
  Sonia: Well, on my website, uh, so I'm, I'm, I have a website, www.
• 27:46
  Sonia: familyconstellationsnz.
• 27:48
  Sonia: com.
• 27:48
  Sonia: And I'm also on Instagram and on Facebook.
• 27:52
  Sonia: And yeah, so just send me an email or, uh, or a text, even a text on WhatsApp or anything.
• 28:00
  Sonia: And, uh, yeah, I'm reachable and then it's all done.
• 28:04
  Sonia: Online for the one on ones, except those who obviously are based in Auckland, and then we do, um, face to face sessions because some people do prefer that.
• 28:16
  Tracy: Is there, I don't know, you just said you talked about, um, PTSD and trauma.
• 28:22
  Tracy: Are there other things that you work more alongside?
• 28:25
  Tracy: You know, there are some who, who work mostly with women, with their cycles and the female aspects of things, others work with.
• 28:34
  Tracy: Health or,
• 28:35
  Sonia: Hmm.
• 28:36
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:36
  Tracy: Um,
• 28:37
  Sonia: yeah, so I've had as many men as women and the theme that comes very often is abandonment.
• 28:45
  Sonia: Hmm.
• 28:46
  Sonia: So that one tends to come nearly every time, uh, because it's an, it's in some ways it's an easy one to create.
• 28:56
  Sonia: And, and it needs an easy one to, you know, come through generations.
• 29:00
  Sonia: And when you look at, you know, the parents and then the grandparents, you can kind of see the thread straight away.
• 29:05
  Sonia: So abandonment comes very, very often.
• 29:08
  Sonia: Also, issues related to money.
• 29:11
  Sonia: Money.
• 29:12
  Sonia: Uh, yeah, money.
• 29:13
  Sonia: I had a lot of people with that, uh, and a relationship.
• 29:19
  Sonia: And I also had issues with, uh, I cannot find my place.
• 29:24
  Sonia: So, I cannot find my place in my family, I cannot find my place in the world, I cannot find my place at work, which kind of, anyway, goes, you know, it's kind of the same route very often.
• 29:36
  Sonia: So, um, yeah, those are the themes that come very often.
• 29:40
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 29:40
  Tracy: So, coming back to abandonment, just for the listeners and the viewers, so some people might not know what that means, as in, yeah, a little bit more in depth.
• 29:50
  Tracy: Yes,
• 29:51
  Sonia: so abandonment.
• 29:53
  Sonia: So in the context of family constellation is pretty much when one of your parents.
• 29:58
  Sonia: If not both, sometimes.
• 30:00
  Sonia: But it's usually one of your parents was not there in your early part of life up to pretty much 18, 19 years old.
• 30:10
  Sonia: Kind of that very young adult stage.
• 30:12
  Sonia: So anything before that, if one of your parents was missing, or even a divorce, will cause that sense of abandonment in the child.
• 30:23
  Sonia: So, and that's something that can be worked on in a session very quickly.
• 30:28
  Sonia: And that's something that anyway, that's a question that I will ask very quickly, not as in, have you been abandoned?
• 30:34
  Sonia: Not at all, but questions about obviously the childhood of the client, but also the parents, mom and dad.
• 30:41
  Sonia: So, and through what they say very often, that's when I'll see.
• 30:44
  Sonia: And that's something that needs to be, dealt with relatively quickly.
• 30:49
  Sonia: And, um, because once you deal with that, for example, if it's in on the dad's side, so you work on the dad's side, suddenly the person is placed into the masculine energy of the father, that it's It could be a man or woman, it doesn't matter, but the man will feel like he's in the main lineage, and he belongs to that, and the woman will feel the man, the masculine energy that will protect her.
• 31:13
  Tracy: So that
• 31:13
  Sonia: will make them feel, uh, uncondoned.
• 31:16
  Sonia: And
• 31:16
  Tracy: that grandness.
• 31:18
  Tracy: That in itself seems to be a theme of the modern age, isn't it?
• 31:21
  Tracy: But in saying that, I guess it's probably been a theme for many lifetimes, where many lives of our ancestors, where the men have had to go to war, or they've had to leave the villages to go to, to go and work, or um, and now we see a lot of it with substance abuse and social media, and just things like that, where There's a real absence and that's coming down to both parents probably the social media side of things.
• 31:47
  Sonia: Exactly and sometimes you don't even need the parent to be physically away.
• 31:54
  Sonia: Sometimes the parent, like you said, through social media, but in the context of family constellation, that parent could be entangled to an ancestor, a child that has passed away regardless of the situation.
• 32:08
  Sonia: And so your parent is actually entangled unconsciously to that ancestor.
• 32:13
  Sonia: And he's parenting that ancestor, not the children in front of him.
• 32:19
  Sonia: So you could have your parents in front of you.
• 32:22
  Sonia: But emotionally, they're not there, because that is one of the reasons, obviously, it could be something else, but I've seen that also being, you know, one of the parents being entangled with a, with an ancestor.
• 32:36
  Tracy: Fascinating, isn't it?
• 32:37
  Tracy: This work is so fascinating.
• 32:38
  Tracy: I've been doing it for a long time too, and it never fails to blow me away, what comes up.
• 32:43
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 32:46
  Tracy: The gratitude I have for people willing to come and do the work, because I can see the benefits for everyone, but the compassion that I have for people when they come and they, they open up and they, they're willing to look at some of that real deep pain.
• 33:01
  Sonia: Exactly.
• 33:01
  Sonia: It requires courage to be able to, you know, first of all, look at yourself and think, hang on, there's something that I want to look at because it doesn't feel right.
• 33:11
  Sonia: And then actually do the work because it's, it's not easy.
• 33:14
  Sonia: It's full of emotions.
• 33:16
  Sonia: During the session, there's obviously a lot of sadness or anger or, you know, anxiety and all those things that you are in, you're in the middle of it.
• 33:26
  Sonia: You can't just escape from it, you know, you need to finish the session.
• 33:30
  Sonia: And I've seen so many people telling me, Oh, I'm okay, I don't have any issues with my parents.
• 33:36
  Sonia: It's been fixed, all good.
• 33:38
  Sonia: Okay, fair enough.
• 33:39
  Sonia: So we do the session.
• 33:41
  Sonia: Within five minutes they start crying and you know, so there's still that's pretty much what I said when I said there's different angles So yes, you could have worked your dad issue mom issue through various modalities, but then the family constellation could actually tap into something slightly different that you haven't seen or you because again it's unconscious so i did have clients like that who were convinced that they fixed their issues with their parents and yeah the family decision actually brought something up and then suddenly they were like oh god i still feel that towards him or her and Yes.
• 34:22
  Tracy: So have you had it where, when you're doing, so giving a Reiki session, for example, and, and something comes up in that, do you do, if it's constellation related, is that something that you do there and then, or they come back for another session?
• 34:37
  Sonia: They tend to come back for another session because, um, like I can pick up something, but then I would rather do a proper session.
• 34:45
  Sonia: Because it could something else could come up throughout that session.
• 34:50
  Sonia: So, um, yeah, it's, uh, obviously, when it's about me, I'll do it completely differently.
• 34:55
  Sonia: But with clients, I would rather separate things and say, Okay, that's what has come up.
• 35:01
  Sonia: You're more than welcome to come.
• 35:03
  Sonia: Uh, to do a session whenever you feel like it, because we know that it's when the client is ready, because I've heard so many people telling me, Oh, it's so fascinating, you know what, I'll come and they don't.
• 35:15
  Sonia: And then it's maybe three, four months later when they're ready, that's when they come.
• 35:21
  Sonia: And that's why I always tell clients, when you're ready, when you feel it.
• 35:26
  Sonia: Then you'll come and it will be ready for you.
• 35:29
  Sonia: Sometimes
• 35:29
  Tracy: we take a little bit longer to pick, you know.
• 35:35
  Sonia: Well, sometimes, like anyone else, you know, you don't sometimes don't want to look at it.
• 35:39
  Sonia: Yeah, you know, you kind of ignore it and it's still here and you just push it away and you engage with all the things and but it still keeps coming back and until you.
• 35:51
  Sonia: You do something.
• 35:52
  Sonia: So to me, it happened, you know, story and it's a personal one for 10 years.
• 35:58
  Sonia: I was doing exactly the same dream and I couldn't figure that out.
• 36:02
  Sonia: I, I thought about a lot of things, but Family Constellation.
• 36:06
  Sonia: And then one day I went to my therapist, so practitioner, and I told her, I said, that's funny, I've had that dream for 10 years and I thought about so many other things.
• 36:17
  Sonia: And I don't know, I'm out of ideas now.
• 36:19
  Sonia: And we actually had to look at it and it was an ancestor communicating with me for 10 years about the same thing that needed to be released.
• 36:29
  Sonia: So you just, you just don't know sometimes, you know, like it really doesn't come to mind because you, you're thinking about so many other things and, and it actually at the time it never crossed my mind that an ancestor will be communicating with me through my dreams.
• 36:46
  Sonia: And that does happen to, obviously everybody's different, but to me it does happen that I will feel something was, you know, we actually just come up.
• 36:55
  Sonia: in various forms.
• 36:57
  Sonia: And then it's me thinking about it very slowly and connecting to it.
• 37:01
  Sonia: And then suddenly I'm like, okay, so that, that is definitely an ancestor.
• 37:04
  Sonia: It's, it's, it's not me.
• 37:07
  Sonia: It's not my life.
• 37:09
  Tracy: Probably one of the biggest bonuses I've found of this work is'cause I'm a mother and a grandmother and, and seeing the generations in front of me through, I mean, I do my work for me and they get the bonuses from them.
• 37:27
  Tracy: Yes.
• 37:27
  Tracy: But it's definitely motivation for me having, having children and grandchildren.
• 37:32
  Tracy: But it's, it's, it's always about like, what's here for me.
• 37:35
  Tracy: Like, I'm not gonna go dig, it's not mine, but if it's here and it's, it's in my face, we'll say yeah.
• 37:43
  Tracy: Then I can clear that for the, so that the kids don't have to carry it.
• 37:46
  Tracy: And the grandkids.
• 37:47
  Sonia: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:48
  Sonia: I've seen that with my daughter, all the work that I've done for so many years and something happened and she reacted completely differently.
• 37:58
  Sonia: And I was like, wow, at least we've broken that cycle.
• 38:03
  Sonia: And to me, that was massive because it was such a nasty cycle that I was so happy that the way she handled it was very different.
• 38:14
  Sonia: And, and the way I. Welcomed what has happened was also very different because I always thought that if that happened, I would collapse.
• 38:24
  Sonia: There's no way I could handle it.
• 38:25
  Sonia: You know, those belief system about if that happens, that's it.
• 38:29
  Sonia: It's my brain will freeze.
• 38:31
  Sonia: I won't be able to handle it.
• 38:33
  Sonia: And actually, when that happened, she reacted completely differently for me with way more power.
• 38:41
  Sonia: And I was able to actually just.
• 38:46
  Sonia: Welcome what she had to say and what has happened without taking it personally, without bringing me back to my own story and just for her actually to just be here for her.
• 38:58
  Sonia: So it's, it's, it is actually quite powerful when you, when you do all that work and you think, well, actually it's helping my kids.
• 39:07
  Sonia: in a way that I thought it would never be possible.
• 39:12
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:14
  Tracy: And for those, um, who don't have children, the work that we do will ripple out throughout your nieces and nephews, and through your siblings, through other family members, right?
• 39:27
  Sonia: Exactly.
• 39:28
  Sonia: And also to the ancestors, because the people you're working with On, on during that session, you also releasing them because they're not, you know, it's, you don't have that unconscious calling from that ancestor.
• 39:42
  Sonia: You are actually breaking you, you cutting the, the link.
• 39:45
  Sonia: Mm-hmm.
• 39:45
  Sonia: You know, so you can actually just live your life.
• 39:47
  Sonia: So you are releasing yourself, but you're also releasing your ancestors and like you said, your siblings, your parents, if they're still there.
• 39:54
  Sonia: Because I've also noticed, you know, people having issues with their parents and then suddenly the parents call or.
• 40:00
  Sonia: Or they hear something, you know, new about their parents or the relationship completely changed with their parents.
• 40:07
  Sonia: So it's, it's never personal.
• 40:10
  Sonia: It's never as an, it's never an individual thing because we are part of a family system and a constellation.
• 40:18
  Sonia: It's like the stars, you have gazillions of them.
• 40:21
  Sonia: So a family system is the same.
• 40:22
  Sonia: We're not on our own.
• 40:24
  Sonia: We've, we've never been on our own and we can't survive on our own.
• 40:28
  Sonia: So we need to belong to a group or family group or whatever it is and find our place there and find peace in there.
• 40:37
  Tracy: I think for myself growing up, you know, like I grew up in a small village and I had my grandparents, some of my grandparents and my other grandparents were in another village not far away.
• 40:47
  Tracy: So for me, that was my world, you know, like without realizing, I think in society, we're taught that we're individuals.
• 40:57
  Tracy: You're an individual.
• 40:57
  Tracy: You're going to stand on your own.
• 40:59
  Tracy: You're going to do this or that.
• 41:00
  Tracy: And, and there's part of that, we are creating our own way forward.
• 41:06
  Tracy: But when we realize that we're, we're more than that and what we carry within us and how much support there is there for us when we want to, when we can tap into it.
• 41:17
  Tracy: And, and then again, you know, in connected to so many people, cause like, you know, was it 20 generations?
• 41:23
  Tracy: There's over a million people in one line behind us.
• 41:27
  Tracy: Just one line on that 20th generation, it's just phenomenal.
• 41:33
  Sonia: It is.
• 41:34
  Sonia: It is.
• 41:34
  Sonia: I, um, with some of my clients, I've done, I guess that you know what I'm about to talk about.
• 41:41
  Sonia: So I put them just standing up and behind them, I tell them, imagine.
• 41:47
  Sonia: So your mom.
• 41:48
  Sonia: Your grandmother, your great grandmother, and you just keep going like that.
• 41:52
  Sonia: So your woman lineage, if you're a woman, and if you're a man, your man lineage.
• 41:56
  Sonia: So your dad, your grandfather, etc.
• 41:56
  Sonia: And you imagine them behind you, and everybody's putting their hand on the shoulder in front of them.
• 42:05
  Sonia: And just feel the energy, the love and the support from your ancestors right behind you, which means that they're always behind you.
• 42:14
  Sonia: You've never been alone, and you'll never be alone, because there's, they are always behind you, supporting you, and just feel the energy.
• 42:21
  Sonia: And very often, people collapse because they feel that support and that love that they've never felt before.
• 42:29
  Sonia: But again, we're not alone.
• 42:31
  Sonia: We always have our ancestors, they're not there to, to be mean with us, or to give us, you know, negative things.
• 42:40
  Sonia: They are, they're also there to support us, so we can thrive.
• 42:44
  Sonia: You know,
• 42:46
  Tracy: how do you describe that to someone who's adopted or family country.
• 42:50
  Sonia: So there's different situations where the person who has been adopted gets along really well with their adoptive parents so they already have that kind of figure.
• 43:01
  Sonia: But the thing is, even with that work.
• 43:04
  Sonia: You also so we go back to that abandonment issue.
• 43:09
  Sonia: So we do sessions about that with mom and dad and the whole and sometimes and that has happened during sessions is clients say.
• 43:20
  Sonia: You are my mother or you are my father and I respect that, but I don't have to love you and that is true.
• 43:28
  Sonia: I respect you and you are my father or you are my mother.
• 43:33
  Sonia: So from a systemic point of view, everybody is at their place.
• 43:37
  Sonia: But I don't have to love you right now because to me it's just too much.
• 43:41
  Sonia: And someone who has been adopted obviously will have the abandonment issue, the rejection and the anger and all that stuff.
• 43:49
  Sonia: And sometimes starting a session with family constellation can be just a first step towards healing, you know, that, that challenge, because it's not a, again, it's not just a magical one saying, okay, you do a session and suddenly you'll feel in love with your parents.
• 44:06
  Sonia: Some people do.
• 44:07
  Sonia: Some people feel grounded because they have energetically connected with their mom and their dad because through the session, and then they honor them and they appreciate them even more.
• 44:20
  Sonia: And some people are just comfortable, uh, putting, putting them back in the rightful place.
• 44:27
  Sonia: And then that's it.
• 44:28
  Sonia: And that's okay.
• 44:29
  Sonia: I don't need more.
• 44:30
  Sonia: I don't want more right now.
• 44:32
  Sonia: So yeah, with family constellation, it's all putting, it's putting people in their rightful place.
• 44:39
  Sonia: You know, it's the mom, the dad, the siblings, and you know, you just keep going like that because from the moment you are at your place, then you're actually living your life and you're making choices.
• 44:50
  Sonia: That belong to you.
• 44:53
  Sonia: They're not influenced by the entanglement that you have or anything like that.
• 44:58
  Sonia: So what you do after that is, is yours to choose pretty much.
• 45:03
  Sonia: So, uh, someone who has been abandoned, sometimes it's just enough to just put them back into their rightful place and say, I see you, but I don't have to love you.
• 45:15
  Sonia: And right now, to me, that's more than enough to keep going.
• 45:20
  Tracy: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 45:21
  Tracy: And you mentioned earlier about that not being able to find your place, which would often come with that too, wouldn't it?
• 45:27
  Tracy: With the abandonment.
• 45:29
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 45:30
  Tracy: Sometimes that can come from, from families that have had to flee their countries or, or that have shifted countries, towns, or.
• 45:40
  Sonia: Yes.
• 45:40
  Sonia: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Sonia: When, when you, when you are obliged to leave your home country, that's horrible.
• 45:47
  Sonia: That's, that's very violent, that's, you know, you, you pretty much, you feel like you've been pushed away from your own country when you haven't asked for it.
• 45:57
  Sonia: Everything that you knew, everything that is familiar to you, the smell, the food, the whatever represents that home country, it's, it's awful.
• 46:08
  Tracy: Sometimes people have this deep meaning and they don't understand what it is, a deep meaning of grief.
• 46:13
  Tracy: Right.
• 46:13
  Tracy: And that could potentially, I mean, there's many different threads that this could go to, but that could be something that is connected to the grandparents who had to leave their country.
• 46:26
  Sonia: Or you're looking for an ancestor, someone who has disappeared, for example, in, uh, on a boat has disappeared and you just be looking for that ancestor.
• 46:38
  Sonia: So you're traveling from one place to another and you're not settling down.
• 46:42
  Sonia: I did, it did cross my mind thinking, hang on, why From Tunisia to France to New Zealand.
• 46:49
  Sonia: What am I looking for?
• 46:51
  Sonia: What's happening, you know, and I know that I have that in the back of my mind and I'm like well Maybe one day when the time is right.
• 46:58
  Sonia: I'll be looking into it.
• 46:59
  Sonia: Maybe there's nothing and it's just I've just found my home country, which is really far from everything that I know, but I love New Zealand and New Zealand has welcomed me with open arms.
• 47:12
  Sonia: Well, maybe there's something else and so be it regardless, like, you know, when the time is right, I'll be looking into it and, and see if there's something to be released.
• 47:21
  Tracy: So what brought you here to Aotearoa?
• 47:24
  Sonia: Uh, I came here more than 20 years ago and it was, uh, to simply to improve my English.
• 47:31
  Sonia: That was just that.
• 47:32
  Sonia: So I came here for six months and I worked, I mean an internship rather, and then I went back to France and I finished my studies and I was missing immensely New Zealand because in France I've always felt out of place.
• 47:47
  Sonia: Clumsy.
• 47:49
  Sonia: Like, it's very strange to say that, but it, I just never felt like it was my home.
• 47:55
  Sonia: And to me, it was the country that my parents have chosen to settle down because they obviously come from Tunisia and then moved to France.
• 48:03
  Sonia: So I was born in France and I lived my whole life in France, but I used to go to Tunisia every summer.
• 48:09
  Sonia: So I came here, I came back and then the rest is history of, you know, I have no desire To leave the country, you know, or if I leave, it will always be, okay, I'll come back home, which is weird to say.
• 48:26
  Sonia: And, and I guess that because I have, I come from different places.
• 48:29
  Sonia: So New Zealand represents something to me, but Tunisia has a special place in my heart.
• 48:36
  Sonia: I can't explain it.
• 48:37
  Sonia: It's, it's different, but it's still some kind of, I don't know, there's that love.
• 48:43
  Sonia: That deep love for my home country because I still see Tunisia is that's where my ancestors come from.
• 48:49
  Sonia: We, well, we actually nomads, so I don't even know where we come from Originally Yeah,
• 48:58
  Tracy: well, maybe that's where the traveling spirit comes out.
• 49:02
  Sonia: I guess so I guess so and like and I don't need to go too far.
• 49:06
  Sonia: My grandmother was already a nomad.
• 49:09
  Sonia: So they were moving from one city to the next where they could work the land.
• 49:14
  Sonia: And then they decided to settle down, uh, where they are now.
• 49:18
  Sonia: I mean, where they were, because they passed away, but yeah.
• 49:21
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 49:22
  Tracy: It's been so lovely to talk to you.
• 49:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 49:24
  Tracy: The community of constellators in New Zealand is, is slowly growing.
• 49:30
  Tracy: Yes.
• 49:31
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 49:31
  Tracy: This, this, Podcast is really for, for our community to, to get to meet new people, new constellators.
• 49:40
  Tracy: Find people in your area or just someone that resonates, you know, so they might be listening to this podcast and think, yeah, I really resonate with Sonia.
• 49:47
  Tracy: So yeah, reach out to her.
• 49:49
  Tracy: So thank you so much for sharing your time.
• 49:52
  Sonia: Thank you for inviting me.
• 49:54
  Sonia: And for actually organizing that podcast, because I think that it's great that there's a platform that is accessible to people to understand what Family Constellation is.
• 50:04
  Sonia: Because I don't think that in New Zealand it's that, um, known, people are not very familiar with it.
• 50:09
  Sonia: And it's such a, it can be seen as a hairy fairy, but there's actually a lot of things behind it.
• 50:16
  Sonia: And if it can help people even just a tiny, tiny bit, well that's, that's something done.
• 50:21
  Sonia: So thank you for doing that work.
• 50:23
  Tracy: You're welcome.
• 50:24
  Tracy: I've seen, I've seen amazing things happen when hearts open a tiny little bit as well.
• 50:29
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 50:29
  Sonia: yeah, exactly.
• 50:30
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 50:32
  Tracy: Well, I look forward to meeting you in person someday soon.
• 50:35
  Sonia: Someday, yes.
• 50:36
  Tracy: Yeah, and we'll share your information here on the podcast thread when it goes out and
• 50:43
  Sonia: yeah.
• 50:44
  Tracy: We'll see what goes from, happens from there.
• 50:46
  Sonia: Thank you.
• 50:47
  Sonia: Thank you so much.
• 50:49
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 50:50
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 50:52
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 50:56
  Tracy: You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 51:00
  Tracy: That's Tracy with no E. And the, or head over to my website tracycartwright.
• 51:07
  Tracy: co. nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 51:13
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.