Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / No obvious answers for Cubs after their bullpen implodes again in Milwaukee

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No obvious answers for Cubs after their bullpen implodes again in Milwaukee · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Network's Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at The Athletic. And Patrick, I mean,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of speechless here right now because it is
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: another heartbreaker for the Cubs. We've said it. We keep
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: saying it. The bullpen is officially a problem. There is
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: no obvious answer here. Right now, in this bullpen, we
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: can go over some names, and they're not the names
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: you would have expected maybe even like 10 days ago
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that kind of feel like, oh, can we trust this guy?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: But Jacob Webb is now officially on the list of like, uh-oh.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And I kind of said it, I think I said
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: it last episode, where it's like he was so awesome
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: for so many months, you kind of knew a rough
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: spot was coming. You don't want it to happen now.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's shaking his confidence and it's shaking Council's confidence in him.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: You know, Council's going to have to keep going to him. But,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you know, another another blown lead. It seemed like the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Cubs are coming away with a great win. What's I
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: think what's most frustrating watching these games when Webb blows
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: him is he's getting two outs pretty easily. It's not
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: like you see it from the start. You know, it's like, oh,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: this guy's really off. It's one pitch is crushing him
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: every single time. Either way, the Cubs' bullpen is a
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: huge question right now. They're not in the wildcard lead,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and I think it's down to like three games, the lead,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for like to fall out of the playoffs. I don't
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: want to– I don't know if we need to start
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: talking about that, but I guess, you know, probably should.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: It's certainly in the background here. I mean– you don't
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: have to go back that far 2023 to when the
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Cubs had 90th percentile playoff odds and they went down
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: to zero. And we, we did the tag team in
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and out of Milwaukee. So on Tuesday night, I'm watching
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: the game on my couch and Carson Kelly hits that, um,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: huge clutch. Uh, was it a double? And, uh, they
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: get the two outs, and I'm trying to think about
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: what we'd be talking about on Wednesday morning, and I
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: was like, this is probably one of the best wins
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of the season when you talk about going up against
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the Miz, responding to a really tough loss, banking a
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: win when you see these teams are closer in your
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: rearview mirror than they appear, whatever the phrase is there,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden just Yelich uh, with
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: a clutch two out single. And then sure. Yo just
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: launches that one. Uh, I'm curious. I watched some of council's, um,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: reactions on the, uh, post game show. Uh, how do
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: you describe the atmosphere inside the manager's office and his,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: how he was rolling with, uh, some of the questions?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, he, it, I think at first it
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: was a normal tough post game. Uh, I would say
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: it felt like it was a longer session after a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: loss than I'm used to. A lot of questions. And
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: he did get snippy at one point. And I think,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you know, looking back and even live at the time,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I did not think the question was one that probably
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: earned that type of response. But also, you know, sometimes...
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And observing counsel over the years, he does sometimes like
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: he can assume intent or hear an intent that isn't there.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: And I think in that case he did. And, you know,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: he got a little annoyed. Yeah, it was tense at
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: that point. You know, counsel is not the type where
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, no, am I going to set him
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: off and is he going to like scream and yell?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: But he was clearly annoyed and he's also– what I
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: appreciate is like you can ask the tough questions. Like
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I was asking about like– I basically said like do
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you have to like start considering other options? Do you
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: need to look at the guys in AAA? I know
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: they aren't saviors but can that be– do you have
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to start talking about these things? Yeah. And, you know,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: he I don't think he like he he sometimes when
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: when he's just like the answers are here, we have
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to figure this out type thing. It's kind of like
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a message to his team more than snapping at us
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: or getting annoyed with us. I feel like the particular
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: question that was asked that he got upset about was the.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the play where Nico and Matt Shaw and left and
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: short kind of converged. Was there someone that should have
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: called someone off essentially in that situation? And, and, and he,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: he took it as was someone not hustling in that situation. And,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and that's, that's not what the question's intent was, but, um,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I think he was just in a mood, which is
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: understandable after that loss. Uh, you think you had to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: win your right. Like, uh, you can go back and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: like analyze every little piece. Like it was second and
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: third with one out after that, after that Kelly double. Right.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: And I, and that means, and that was PCA up
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: and he couldn't get in that, that extra run. Yeah.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: And you know, at the time you're like, no big deal.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: You scored two, you have a two run lead, but
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it ends up costing them. And a lot of little
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: moments say, say I had a, a poor running, uh
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: play like watching that live he should have he went
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: halfway watched the ball a little longer than i thought
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: he should have he needed to get back to the
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: base because he was like rushing to get back and
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: then like wasn't like you need to be on the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: base ready to go in my opinion easier said than
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: done i'm you know telling him what to do watching
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: from the safety of the press box uh It was
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: poorly executed. There were little moments like that, and it
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: gets back to what we said yesterday. To beat the Brewers,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: you can't make little mistakes. You have to win around
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the margins against a team like this that seems to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: do everything right. And I'm not saying the Cubs do
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of things wrong. You just can't make mistakes
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: against the Brewers.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: When I walked into the visiting clubhouse on Labor Day,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: it was... Completely silent.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Not totally unusual, but, you know, you can kind of
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: pick up vibes. And I think in reading your story
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: and some of the quotes, the post-game stuff, like they
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: realize this is a problem. And, you know, Jacob Webb
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: is a very emotional player. He's always at his locker.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I think he's very kind of old school, someone who
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: wants to pitch regularly. uh, all the time. Yeah. I
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: think who generally gets it. I think the word he,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the word, word or words, I guess, depends on what
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the AP style is for piss poor, but that was
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: his description. Uh, how do you think, I think he
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: bounces back here.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: It's really hard to, to say, to be honest, like,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: you know, my philosophy on bullpens is like, I, I,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: like I can feel comfortable about a bullpen going into
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: a season and watch it blow up almost immediately. And
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I just kind of shrug my shoulders and say like, well,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it should have expected that. Cause that's how, like, I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: just don't know what to expect from a bullpen. He's
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: like making one egregious pitch and outing at the worst
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: possible time. And they are not missing it. Like that's
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: what's happened lately. He's it. I don't think it's like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: where's the stuff like where, like, He looks like completely lost.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not seeing that, right? It's not like, okay, he
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: can't find the zone and then he's forced into the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: zone and like throwing meatballs. It's just like the changeup
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: or the slider or something isn't being executed in the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: biggest moment. Is that, and I think it's fair to ask,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: is that a question? Is it, you know, he's like
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: been used so much Is this just the natural ebb
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and flow of things? Yeah, he's at 62 appearances. That's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: a career high. Two more than his previous career high.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: He's at 60 and two-thirds innings. That's about five and
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a third innings short of last year's career high. But
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: you have to consider last year as well. Overall, the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: numbers are good, right? Career best strikeout rate, walk rate
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is fine. ERA is good. but he's just having his
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: worst stretch at a really bad time in it. And
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: it's going to be under the microscope. I would not like,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm in panic mode about Jacob Webb.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I think you're in panic mode about the bullpen. I
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: think you have like two weeks to get Jacob Webb.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And I wouldn't be shocked if he, if he's back
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in the trust tree, he's probably still in it because
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Craig council just doesn't have, he has no choice, no choice. Um,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Why don't we take a quick break and come back
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and talk about what is happening with this bullpen? and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing with this group.
• 10:08
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• 10:11
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• 10:13
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• 10:16
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• 10:21
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• 10:24
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• 10:27
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• 10:29
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• 10:30
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• 10:33
  Speaker 4: they're playing has a chance in the playoffs. So all
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: these games in September, you got to get on there,
• 10:38
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• 10:42
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• 10:45
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• 10:47
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• 10:50
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• 10:54
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• 10:57
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• 11:02
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• 11:05
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• 11:08
  Speaker 1: All right, Patrick. I don't know who to start with here.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Jacob Webb's struggling now. That's three blown saves. all with
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: two-run homers and two outs in his last three save opportunities.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: He's given up runs, I believe, in four of six outings.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: He obviously took that, was it a liner, was it
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a one-hopper, whatever it was, off the forearm. So he's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: clearly a concern. Ryan Zephyrjohn, I don't feel like he's
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: going out there and having these blow-up outings. Uh, it's
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: not like hard contact after hard contact and like walking
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: for guys or stuff like that, but he's not getting
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the job done. Uh, Daniel Palencia looks like he's a
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: little bit for me, like the longer it's lasted, the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: more I'm like, he's got like, you almost would like
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the ideal scenario for him is like over the next
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: five games, he gets in three of them and they're
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: all blowouts. And he's just able to– or like the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: first two are blowouts and then he's able– and he
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: like dominates and he's able– like that's– I almost feel
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: like he needs more like lighter landing spots to just
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: like get like his confidence and rhythm back and then
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it's like, OK, now go out and take the eighth
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: inning and get this high leverage spot. But it doesn't
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: work that way. You don't get to pick and choose
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: what the situation is. And Caleb Theobar– seems like he's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: been better, but not dominant. Uh, you know, he, he
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: got the, like he got the out that he needed to.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: He struck out Jake Bowers yesterday, walked a guy. And
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: then it, um, I believe it, uh.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Was freely. Was that the play we're just talking about
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: with Sean?
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he gave up.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: He did. He kind of did his job in a sense. Uh,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that was a tough situation in the 10th inning. Uh,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: But I don't know who you point to and say, like,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I trust this guy. Even Ryan Rolison, good. He's just
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: not at that level yet for me where I'm like, yep,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: he's earned my trust where I know, like, it is
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a surprise if he has a bad outing. And I don't–
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: maybe that's unfair because he's had a great season. But
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure who that guy is in the bullpen
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: right now. But– I guess, like, how did we get
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: here is the question, right?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Well, they got 15 games left, and I'm not sure
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: how many soft landings are within those games, considering kind
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: of what's at stake here and how that very comfortable
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: wildcard lead has been sort of frittered away here. I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: think you look long-term... drafting and developing pitchers. I mean,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: this has been, I mean, we could have been recording
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: this podcast in 2017 and like, that would be a
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: similar sort of idea, right. Or 2019 of like, where,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: where is the pipeline? You look back on those drafts
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: and they're with different sort of groups and philosophies and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: models or, uh, less than models, um, just haven't generated enough.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: And it's, it's hard. to do that. Uh, it's hard
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to keep the guys that break through healthy. We've seen that,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: but kind of those drafts of 2019, 2020, 2021, obviously
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: there's still time with 2022, but you know, that leads
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: into the injury question and just the, the dominoes of
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Kate Horton going down and, you know, we'll get into
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Justin Steele later, Ben Brown setback. Uh, then you, just
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: get into just player acquisition and talent identification of really,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and council acknowledges this on Monday, like the relievers they
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: were counting on over the winter when they were setting
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: this thing up, almost none of them outside Jacob Webb
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: have contributed anything. And we're talking about Phil Maton's knee
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: slash ineffectiveness, um, You know, unfortunately, Hobie Milner had that appendectomy.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: We're at the point in the season where I'm actually,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: you know, using baseball reference to see how Hobie Milner's
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: doing with Seattle. I think he's given up three runs
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: and three outings, but the last one was scoreless. So
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to kind of break it. But,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you know, there are obviously others here. Why am I
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: drawing a blank?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Hunter Harvey. Hunter Harvey.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Hunter Harvey was the lottery ticket. And, you know, I mean,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: has he, he didn't even make it past like the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: middle of April, right? Or not, didn't make it into May.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. He didn't, he had like what, three outings,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: four outings. It wasn't, it wasn't a lot. Yeah. He's,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I get, I get what you're trying to do with him,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that did not work at all.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: It was just, and you know, that's kind of the
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: nature of, bullpens you know Cubs officials have reminded us
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: of that uh all the time I think if you
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: look back at some of the names you would have
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: wanted or they they tried for the the Tanner Scotts
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I mean I've just read something like Luke Weaver's been
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: having a lot of issues in Pittsburgh I think he
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: even had almost like poison ivy or something like that
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: like who like who like I don't know if there
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: was like a kind of a glaring how could you
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: not do that. I think it's not get that guy.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's more of just the, it feels like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I think we'll get into this in the next section.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: It just feels like that assembly line or the churn
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: is really slowed down or almost stopped. And like the,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: the window to acquire players is almost entirely shut. I mean,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: the guys that will be kind of floating about now
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: are not particularly active. desirable or you know had proven
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: their effectiveness this year and that i think is the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: you give the cubs a lot of credit for their
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: ingenuity and their resourcefulness for always kind of kind of
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: just grabbing arms left and right and this is like
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the middle of september is not the time to do.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: That no like i think i saw hunter biggies on
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: like waivers or whatever to be clear like anyone you
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: add now to the 40 man like it you know
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: can't be added to the playoff roster, but like he,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: he could, you could pick them up and try and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: get something out of them. I don't know if that's,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: now's the time, if it makes sense to get someone
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. So I think ultimately here's how I
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: look at it. I don't think it's like Jed Hoyer's
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: philosophy of not spending big in the bullpen is crushing them. They, they,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like spending would not have solved this issue. I don't
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: think not, certainly not this past winter, Edwin Diaz, uh,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Devin Williams, uh, poor seasons. Uh, who's the guy that
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: ended up signing with, I believe Miami, um.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, Peter Fairbanks.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Peter Fairbanks had a bad season. Um, there is, uh,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Robert Suarez had, it was having a great season, got hurt,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: missed multiple months. Um, It's either ineffectiveness, injury, or a
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: combination of the two for pretty much every free agent reliever.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Like you said, Luke Weaver was having a great season,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: now is struggling. It is tough to find good relief pitching. Now,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that's not to say... that there aren't a ton of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: good relievers. Now, the guys that were traded last deadline,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the big names, Mason Miller, Duran, there's one other name
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: who I am blanking on. Oh, David Bednar. All three
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: of those guys were traded last year with multiple years
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: of control. The Cubs weren't aggressive for those types of guys.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: And I agree with it to a certain extent. You
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: don't want to give up your number one prospect for
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a reliever. He was aggressive to get, Jed was aggressive
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to get Zephyr John this year. So maybe that philosophy
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: kind of shifted. Multiple years of control of Zephyr John,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: but he's not performing. But those guys are all, those
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: three that I named, like all three of those are performing.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I look at the list of top relievers in baseball.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: A lot of them are guys on their first contract,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: developed by the team, or someone like Mason Miller who
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: was traded for a haul by the team. The Cubs
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: don't have enough of those guys. In an ideal world,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you know who'd be three of your four best? relievers
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: this year, uh, by this point, it'd be Daniel Palencia,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Porter Hodge, and, uh, and like Luke Little or, or, uh, um,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Jackson Wiggins. Uh, that's, that's what they'd like. They'd like
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: three of those three homegrown and two veterans and you're
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: feeling good. Uh, Palencia struggled, Porter Hodge injury, Luke Little struggled,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: never looked good in the big leagues. Um, Jackson Wiggins
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: struggled all season in battle injury. And the thing is,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: injuries are going to happen. Where's the depth in the system?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I think this is a failure of the system. I'm
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: not going to put it on free agency and things
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: like that. I do not think that's the best way
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: to build a bullpen. I think the best way to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: build a bullpen is you have arms coming up through
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the system. And then you throw a bunch against the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: wall and have like $ 2. 5 million, whatever it was, $ 1. 5
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: million to Jacob Webb. You take a flyer on Ryan Rolison.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: You take a flyer on Trent Thornton. If it's one
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: guy like Maton, fine. And they did that. It didn't work.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: But that's how I look at it. You get the veterans.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: You hope you hit on three of the five that
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: you spent a little bit of money on. And then
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you hope you have like three young guys there and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: kind of fill the roles that way. They haven't done it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: They keep talking about pitching development. They have not done it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: It's not good enough. It needs to get better. It
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: is hurting them right now that they don't have any
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: young pitching coming up. they don't have enough. Yes, they've
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: weathered the storm all season long and props to them
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: for being where they are because we can't overlook how
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: much injuries have impacted this team. Bullpens, it's costing them
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: now at the biggest time of the year. Okay, why
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: don't we take a break and then talk about solutions,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: if there are any.
• 22:52
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• 23:55
  Speaker 1: All right. Is it bad that I'm... Just the tone. Yeah.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Am I... All right. Is it bad that I'm looking at...
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I'm watching Aaron Savali last night and like, should he
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: be pitching like one inning bursts in the eighth inning?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: his numbers with the Cubs are awesome. He's been absolutely
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: great in, you know, whatever, what has it been? 26
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: in the third inning, 137 ERA, he's striking out 23%
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: of the batters he's facing, solid ground ball rate. I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: looked at the pitch mix. The only thing I saw
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: that is much different than what he was doing with
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: athletics earlier this year is I think he's basically dumped
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: his curve ball since coming to the Cubs, he, you know,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: he was starting with the A's if I remember correctly. Yeah.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: So it's shorter bursts. He seems to like thrive in
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: this role with the Cubs. Does higher leverage. Is that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: in his future? Like he did pitch one in a
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: third yesterday and they were high leverage in the sense
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that it was a tie game. And he looked good. I, yeah, I,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the answer is, but, I think
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: at this point, maybe you do give him an opportunity.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And then after that, it's like, do the Cubs look
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to AAA? There's a bunch of guys down there. Is
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: one of them going to help this team?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, you don't probably love the idea of
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: like Aaron Savali is probably doing really, really well because
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the Cubs are putting him in very specific situations. It's
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: kind of like the, you know, whatever the, the left-handed
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: hitter or the right-hand hitter who does awesome against these
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: specific matchups and everyone wants to see him play every day.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: And then you see him play every day and it's
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, that's why he's a part-time player.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: But I don't know. Zvaly, Colin Ray, Javier Asad. Is there...
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Can you do some different things with them? I think
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to maybe push your starters a
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: little more than you're comfortable. I think at least in
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: the playoffs... Things will kind of reset, and we saw
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: how well the Cubs were able to game plan for
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the Padres. Dansby Swanson coming back will be a big deal.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe that helps out your D.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, defensively.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: But I'm with you. It's tough to look at Des
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Moines and think like, all right, this is where we are.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: But Shelby Miller, Justin Steele, I certainly think that their
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: case is a lot stronger than it was a couple
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: of weeks ago as they were kind of embarking on this.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't love the idea of having to rely
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: on these guys. There's 16 games left. I don't know
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: how you get them incorporated. Justin Steele is one where
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I just don't know how often he can pitch. And
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I don't doubt his toughness. I don't doubt his ability
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to get out. Uh, we've seen him come out of
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: the bullpen and dominate, uh, I just don't know if
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: you can trust that he can be used regularly, multiple
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: times in a week. Shelby Miller, I think we're getting
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: close to, you just got to get him out there soon.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I think he was supposed to throw yesterday. Illinois, Iowa got,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: he was, yeah, either yesterday or today was a scheduled day.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of losing track of what day it is. No,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I think he was scheduled for today. Um, and it
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: like either way, Iowa got rained out yesterday. They were
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: supposed to have a couple of rehab outings yesterday. I
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: assume they all get pushed it today. Um, Gavin Hollowell
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: is on the mend. Like he looked good when he
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: was up, but I like, I always worry about those
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: guys that were looking good. That's never had a long
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: history and then get hurt.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: It's a long layoff.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Can he get back in that rhythm? Um,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and I don't like it. That's my biggest concern with
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: any of these guys. Is there a long enough runway
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: for them to earn the trust? Miller's the only one
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: outside of steel. And again, I go back to, I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: don't know how often you can use them. Um, Miller's
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the only one. He has such a long history where
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you're just like, just go like, I trust you because
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: of your history, not because of what you're doing right now.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Just go out there and prove it. And then we'll,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you do it once or twice. And it's like, yep,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: time to trust you. Uh, Other guys, I don't know
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: if I could say that. Edward Cabrera, Jackson Wiggins is
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: way down the list right now, but I guess you'd
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: have to put him on the list just because of
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the situation you're in.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, Shota Minaga, David Peterson, we're talking about out-getters
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and pockets of opposing lineups trying to get just segments
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: of outs and piecing it together as part of a
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: larger puzzle. I think all of those ideas will probably
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: be on the table here. And I guess the flip
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: side of how bad the bullpen has looked recently and
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: knowing that these are fluid situations, like things could change
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: and get better. I'm not, I wouldn't bet on that. Like,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: like everything all of a sudden coming together, but individual
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: pitchers can make improvements. Guys can get locked in. Like
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: that's just, these are small, small samples we're dealing with.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Yep. You're absolutely right. It can change quickly for the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: good and for the bad. Right now it's changed quickly
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: for the bad. Maybe it felt inevitable, but they were
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: always like walking a fine line with it. stuff, but it's,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: it's fallen apart quickly and now it's costing them games.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And what you don't want is for it to cost
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: them a playoff spot. They gotta, they gotta write the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: ship quickly. That's, That may be our focus going forward.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Is this going to cost them the playoffs? It's gotten
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: to that point, which I did not think it would.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Suddenly we're here. All right, let's wrap this up. We'll
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: be back with one more episode this week to wrap
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: up this series in Milwaukee and kind of assess what's
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: going on with this team. Thanks so much for listening.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for watching and listening, everyone. Take care.