Latest / Anunnaki Origins Podcast / Mars Moon Phobos an Anunnaki Satellite | Anunnaki Origins Podcast 035

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Mars Moon Phobos an Anunnaki Satellite | Anunnaki Origins Podcast 035 · Anunnaki Origins Podcast

0:00
Well, yeah, that's reason because Phobos, which is the
0:03
inner little tiny, tiny, tiny moon of Mars, it's less than 20
0:06
miles across, is artificial. It's a spaceship, an ancient
0:12
battered. I can hear everybody running for
0:14
the hills right now. An ancient battered spaceship.
0:18
Now you know that the. European Space Agency has
0:21
photographs and radar and tracking data to prove it, and
0:26
they're sitting on the story because they probably had no
0:28
idea how to tell the world what they found.
0:32
Well, we have inside sources. We have been talking with
0:35
certain people through intermediaries who actually
0:39
speak Italian in the Italian arm of ESA, which is devoted to the
0:46
experiment on a couple of their spacecraft called the Marsis
0:50
radar, which stands as the M stands for Mars.
0:54
And it basically is an echo sounder.
0:56
It sends out a radio wave and then listens for the echo like
1:00
any radar. And the Mars Express spacecraft,
1:03
which was put into orbit around Mars by ESA back in 2003, it's
1:09
now 2010. So you can see it's been there a
1:11
long time, seven years or or more or less.
1:16
They have been pummeling Mars with these radar pulses every
1:22
time the spacecraft comes within a certain distance.
1:25
Because the Mars Express is not in a circular orbits and the
1:28
very elliptical orbit takes it out to something like 30,000
1:31
miles and within maybe a couple of 100 miles.
1:34
And within the couple 100 miles, they are within a range to use
1:38
the radar and examine the subsurface of Mars.
1:41
And they've been creating archives showing the subsurface
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geology, layers of ice, crater morphology, brushia lenses and
1:54
craters, usually things related to geology.
1:57
Well, in the last several years, they've also, as they have flown
2:02
past the little tiny inner moon of Mars called Phobos, they have
2:07
readjusted the radar so that they don't blow out their
2:10
circuits and their integrated, you know, transistorized
2:13
computer chips. And they have been able to get
2:16
radar scans from Phobos as they passed relatively close by.
2:21
In fact, in March, they passed with it in something like 67
2:26
kilometers of this little, little tiny moon that's
2:30
basically 3 diameters away. Well, it, it has to do here with
2:35
the way the selection mechanics work.
2:37
You're, you're in a spacecraft that's in a polar orbit.
2:40
The little moon is in an Equatorial orbit, which means
2:43
they're meeting roughly at 90° if Phobos is around 4000 miles
2:50
from the surface of Mars. And as I said, the spacecraft
2:54
goes between a couple of 130,000.
2:57
So it passes down across the orbit of Phobos in such a way
3:02
that depending upon the phasing, which has to do with the orbits
3:06
to build the spacecraft and the little moon, there are times
3:09
when you can get really, really, really close.
3:12
And So what ISA has been doing periodically over the last
3:15
several years as the celestial mechanics work to bring these
3:19
two orbits into phase with each other, they have been using
3:22
these serendipitous passes to get some really extraordinary
3:26
data. And the bottom line of all that
3:28
data, which is sitting in so many graduate students computers
3:32
now all over Europe, because he says, you know, is, is a
3:36
European Space Agency. It's got, you know, member
3:38
countries from almost every nation in Europe.
3:41
There is information in these computers, and they're talking
3:44
about it in the halls and at lunch and seminars along
3:48
themselves, that the data is now really convincingly proving that
3:52
Phobos is not a natural asteroid captured by Mars.
3:57
It wasn't an object that naturally formed in Mars orbit
4:01
billions of years ago. The data is telling them that it
4:04
in fact is an ancient, very battered spaceship that was
4:08
placed around Mars, God knows when.
4:11
And probably like its companion Demos, which is the even tinier
4:15
little moon further out from from Mars, was put there by
4:19
somebody or persons unknown. And that of course, is going to
4:22
be the extraordinary mystery story as we go forward on this
4:25
entire tale. I.
4:26
Should say so. Very much so.
4:28
But look. Particularly one named Mike
4:31
Barra, who is my co-author on our New York Times bestseller
4:34
dark mission The Secret History of NASA.
4:37
We've been looking at the serious facts surrounding the
4:42
idea that not only NASA, but other states, agencies around
4:46
the world have known for some time that there are objects in
4:49
the solar system that are artificial, that there are
4:52
artificial ruins down on various planets like Mars, like the
4:56
moon, and they haven't figured out a way to tell the world.
5:01
And we found many, many years ago a document in NASA's
5:05
archives called the Brookings Report, which was done right
5:09
after NASA was formed back in 1958.
5:12
A government report done with a whole bunch of, you know, Creme
5:16
de la Creme scholars and thinkers and intellectuals in
5:21
the late 50s looking at the prospects for what would happen
5:25
to the world, to society, if the space agencies were to go out
5:29
there in space and discover artifacts of some kind of
5:34
extraterrestrial intelligence. And the bottom line of this
5:36
report, which was a recommendation to NASA, was you
5:40
can't tell anybody because it will destroy society.
5:44
It was that dire. It was that start.
5:45
This was in 1960 at the New York Times published the conclusion
5:50
of this report, which is if you tell anybody that there's
5:54
ancient ET ruins in the solar system, you will wind up
5:58
destroying civilization. Now, that may sound in the first
6:01
decade of the 21st century as a bit over the top, but you have
6:05
to remember the thinking that was going on in the 50s in terms
6:09
of the Cold War, in terms of domestic American politics,
6:13
which was the whole McCarthy era thing.
6:16
Looking for communists under every bed the duck and cover,
6:19
the paranoia of confronting the Soviet Union with, you know,
6:23
thousands upon thousands of nuclear warheads, etcetera,
6:26
etcetera. Well, the problem is if they
6:28
told someone and that someone just blew them off as being kind
6:31
of nuts or exaggerating or whatever, whatever Marshall
6:35
Mcluhan said many decades ago. And you remember, of course, who
6:38
Marshall Mcluhan was. He was the very famous Canadian
6:43
film and television critic who wrote, He was basically a
6:48
philosopher. He wrote a number of of of
6:50
studies and books regarding media and their impact on
6:54
culture and society and civilization and all that.
6:57
And one of his is, you know, most famous lines is the medium
7:02
is the message. Well, another one of his
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aphorisms is that great secrets don't require security.
7:09
They are protected by the very incredulity of their listeners.
7:15
In other words, if I come up to you on the street and I tell you
7:18
that Phobos, the intermodal Mars is artificial.
7:21
Unless you have some background in this subject, unless you have
7:24
some expertise, or unless you've, let's say, you know,
7:28
read a certain website, you're going to dismiss that
7:30
information as completely kooky and out of bounds and not worthy
7:34
of following up. And if this is done again and
7:37
again and again, the story simply stops.
7:40
It stops dead in the water. But these are people who've just
7:42
heard a story in a bar, though. These are people who have
7:45
qualifications, who have brains. These are not all people who
7:49
would be disbelieved, surely? Well, but we have to look at the
7:53
entire social scenario here. What we have at the moment is,
7:56
is a is an amalgam of many different nations in Europe
8:00
speaking different languages with different philosophies,
8:03
different approaches, different economic systems.
8:06
And they've come together under this umbrella called the
8:08
European Space Agency. And they send spacecraft out
8:12
into the solar system looking at various things.
8:14
They don't have a manned space program.
8:16
They have an unmanned space program by and large, although
8:19
they have put some astronauts on American and and Russian
8:23
spacecraft and the space station.
8:25
But by and large, ESA's activities are confined to
8:28
unmanned robotic probes, right? So when these probes send back
8:32
information, that information, because it is multinational, has
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to go to different investigators, scientists,
8:41
engineers, grad students covering a multitude of
8:45
countries all over Europe in order for the project to be
8:48
successful. So the fact that all this
8:52
information is out there and a lot of people realize what it's
8:56
telling them, but no news organization in Europe has yet
8:59
picked up on this, tells me that if one of these people were to
9:03
be so imprudent as to, you know, let's say talk out of turn in a
9:07
bar late one night, no one would believe this person because the
9:11
story is just too unbelievable. And if some news person did over
9:15
here, the hypothetical ESA engineer scientists in a bar
9:19
talking about stuff he shouldn't be talking about, and they were
9:22
to call ESA formally and ask them, is this true?
9:26
ESA would say of course not. End of story.
9:29
But you're saying that ESA will eventually have to confirm this.
9:32
They couldn't possibly in those circumstances say it's not true
9:35
because like a politician having then denied the thing, they they
9:38
couldn't confirm it, could they? They put them in a terribly
9:41
invidious position. All they have to say is comment.
9:46
All they have to say is that and depending upon the
9:48
aggressiveness of the news organization, whether they
9:50
follow up or don't follow up. In other words, a lot of the
9:53
news organizations, as you know from your personal experience
9:55
all these days are very lazy and there isn't the incentive to
10:02
really pursue a story that does not want to be born if you can
10:06
just wait and eventually it's going to fall out of the of the
10:09
tree and land in your lap. Well, that's we agree on that.
10:11
Nobody wants to do any legwork anymore, any footwork.
10:15
President working against you because you know, how many times
10:18
has has the boy cried wolf? How many?
10:21
If you go to the web, you know, look at the at the Internet as
10:24
it exists around the world today, you will find the most
10:27
extraordinary, strangest, bizarre websites claiming
10:31
everything under the sun. And in that melange of noise, in
10:37
that against that background of nonsense, the fact that there is
10:41
in fact real data supporting the real scientific evidence now
10:46
that the inner mood of Mars is not natural, that somebody built
10:49
a long, long time ago and it has been battered and bashed by
10:52
meteors. So it looks natural.
10:55
It looks like it's a degraded normal object in the solar
10:59
system. Finding that needle in that
11:01
haystack for most journalists today is there's too much
11:05
trouble. They really are incredibly lazy.
11:09
OK, there's another level to this.
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Depending upon who you get to go on the record, they could always
11:16
say it's nonsense. And then if it got bucked up
11:20
high enough and they ultimately have to admit that it's not,
11:23
they'll simply claim that the underling did not know because
11:26
he did not have a need. Not in the loop.
11:29
So we have onions. We have layers of protection.
11:33
You know, what was it that Neil Armstrong said at the White
11:36
House on the night on the 20th anniversary of landing on the
11:40
moon at the at the at the close of his remarks, he turned to the
11:43
president, who at that time was President Clinton.
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And he turned to some of the students who have been brought
11:48
in to be part of the audience. And he said that, you know, that
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there are wonders beyond belief, meaning on the moon, and that
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there are truths, protective levels, which one day will be
12:04
removed. Meaning that if you can get
12:07
through the labyrinth of the lies and distortions and the non
12:11
truths at the end of that road, there is in fact the real data
12:15
and the real solar system. And what's out there is out
12:19
there. And it will be up to future
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generations from his perspective, I guess, to find it
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because the current generation is not going to be allowed to
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find it. Truth has protective layers.
12:30
Well, ISA appears to have opened the door by publishing all of
12:35
this data. What's so interesting is that
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we're not just dealing with rumors that they have found
12:39
something. We have the data and any non ESA
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engineer, radar specialist, imaging expert can look at this
12:50
data and make a qualified technical scientific judgment
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apart from the politics of the European Space Agency.
12:58
And we've had many of them now since we posted this paper on
13:02
enterprisemission.com. And the overwhelming consensus
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when people look at this data is, Oh my God, frivolous is an
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ancient spaceship. So I think the clock is ticking.
13:13
And I think that when you make those phone calls, you're
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probably going to, if you get high enough, you're probably
13:19
going to find someone who ultimately knows what's going on
13:23
and who realizes that they can't continue to dissemble or
13:26
basically lie. And they will have to give you a
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no comment, which of course means we're right.
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Well, I would say it's better than 5050.
13:37
And the reason I'm saying that is because of an old thing an
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old friend said to me many years ago before he died.
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And put in print and put in film and put up in, you know, 40 foot
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high letters, you know, all the Hollywood sign.
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He actually did an entire movie about this and it was called
13:55
2010, the year we make contact. And I believe that Arthur was
14:03
one of the in crowd and that the Brookings plan.
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I mean, if you really think the civilization is going to fall
14:10
apart if you make extraterrestrials known in
14:14
polite society, if you read the rest of Brookings, which as I
14:18
said was published back in 1950, eight it was.
14:22
It was completed and given to the president, President
14:24
Eisenhower at that point, who then passed it on to President
14:27
Kennedy, who then turned it over to the US Congress, who then
14:31
published it. And in that document, that's how
14:34
we got hold of it in that document in 196061, because
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that's roughly the time frame when the Brookings report became
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public. It also strongly recommends a
14:45
program of public education and social I don't want to say
14:52
reorientation, but basically a mechanism to get over the fears
14:59
to what? We call over here preparedness
15:02
here. Yes, that would be a good term.
15:04
And what they did was they basically state in Brookings
15:07
that in order to counteract the terrible potential downside of
15:12
revealing that the human race is not alone, there needs to be
15:15
this vast media wide educational process that goes on for
15:19
decades, which basically puts them in the picture.
15:23
That gives them freedom to mentally and emotionally
15:28
experience the idea that the human race is not alone without
15:32
freaking out. And that of course is major
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film, media, television, etcetera, etcetera.
15:37
So what have we seen, Howard, over the last, what is it, 40-50
15:42
years? We have seen an extraordinary
15:45
parade of films and television shows and television series and
15:50
remakes of classic films, all with the theme that the human
15:55
race is not alone. And I can name for you, you know
15:57
many of them. That everybody, of course, now
16:00
talks about his household words from Star Wars to Star Trek from
16:04
2001 to all of the other films that are classics in the genre.
16:10
And the bottom line is that people have been bit by bit
16:14
desensitized to the idea that the human race is alone.
16:19
Well, it obviously has to be part of a plan because the
16:22
Europeans have the only spacecraft that's capable of
16:24
making these closed passes repeatedly every five months
16:27
down past. Hobos, Remember, Phobos is in an
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Equatorial orbit. In fact, it's almost exactly in
16:33
the plane of Mars. Equator, circular orbit.
16:37
It's almost exactly circular. So how does one get a captured
16:42
asteroid in a circular orbit? It doesn't work OK, And Demos is
16:47
the same. Demos is about 10,000 miles
16:49
further out. And it's also in a circular
16:52
orbit, also in the plane of Mars equator.
16:54
And it's a little tiny thing, you know, maybe 15-12 miles,
16:58
something like that in diameter. So if these two things are
17:02
ancient spacecraft, then the Mars Express spacecraft, which
17:07
is the European Space Agency's emissary, is in a polar orbit at
17:12
90° to the orbital planes of these two little moons, and it
17:16
goes down past them roughly every five months.
17:20
There is a period of time, a window of a few weeks duration,
17:24
where Mars Express will pass repeatedly closer and closer and
17:29
closer, and then farther and farther and farther away from
17:32
Phobos. It really can't get to demos
17:36
because the orbit is not correct.
17:37
So it doesn't ever do a flyby closely of demos.
17:41
But Phobos, yes. And so it looks to me as if ESSA
17:46
was designated as part of a general Someday we will pull the
17:51
trigger on this plan to gather data on Phobos because it's the
17:57
only spacecraft in an orbit which can at the moment appears
18:01
to be hollow, or it appears to be 1/3 hollow.
18:05
Back in 1989 when the Russians first sent a mission to Mars
18:10
dedicated to surveying full boasts.
18:13
I mean, we have been and the Russians have been to Mars now
18:17
dozens and dozens of times. We've sent another accumulation
18:20
of maybe something like 30 spacecraft between the two
18:24
nations to to Mars. And don't only to that number
18:26
because it's only a ballpark number.
18:29
Most of the Russian missions, the Soviet missions, have
18:32
failed. Most of the American missions
18:35
have failed. But in 1989, even though it was
18:40
a daunting technical challenge, the Soviet Union mounted A
18:44
sophisticated mission to go to Phobos.
18:49
It was called what was called Phobos.
18:51
That was the name of the mission.
18:53
And they said two spacecraft, a prime and a backup, they lost
18:58
one because of computer programming errors.
19:00
The second spacecraft made it into Mars orbit successfully in
19:04
the spring of 1989, lasted for a few weeks.
19:09
And then as it approached Phobos for a rendezvous to begin to do
19:13
a very, very complicated and exhaustive scan and analysis and
19:19
probing with all kinds of electronic means, including
19:22
radar. The Russians lost their Phobos
19:26
probe and a bizarre story appeared, you know, moving
19:31
around the world first by means of blogs.
19:35
Well, in those days they weren't really called blogs.
19:37
They were, they were, you know, the, the Internet was, was very
19:40
primitive back in, in those days.
19:42
It didn't exist by and large. So what you had was people
19:47
holding conferences, people publishing newsletters, putting
19:52
out this cover story, which was fostered by an actual Russian
19:56
cosmonaut, I believe her name was Marina Popovich.
20:02
Going around to various conferences, mainly UFO
20:04
conferences, and saying to the world that the Russian
20:07
spacecraft had been shot down by aliens.
20:10
Well, there's no better way. Guarantee that the mainstream
20:14
media, including the BBC, never go within a light year of the
20:19
story to have a cosmonaut running around the world
20:22
claiming that their spacecraft has been shot down by aliens
20:25
circling Mars. Yeah, well, that was damage
20:27
control because it is now clear from the ASA data that the
20:32
Russians, the Soviets back in 1989, got the first proof this
20:36
Phobos is, in fact, artificial. And the entire story, this other
20:41
good story about how they lost it and what happened to it, et
20:44
cetera, et cetera, was a cover story designed to get the
20:46
mainstream press ever, never, ever to ask anything about
20:51
photos. No, no.
20:52
And the reason I know that is because Tom Van Flandern, the
20:55
late Doctor Thomas van Flandern, my colleague and friend who died
20:59
very tragically, you know, a few months ago, did an actual paper
21:03
on the data that Popovich and company had provided in in
21:08
so-called proof of the shoot down model.
21:11
And it turns out that the object that they claim was an alien
21:17
spaceship that had shot down the Phobos mission from the Soviets
21:22
was in fact as dark as the Phobos moon itself.
21:28
Phobos and Demos are very peculiar in another way.
21:31
They're incredibly black. They are among the darkest, most
21:35
non reflective objects in the solar system, Howard.
21:40
They reflect less than 4 or 3% of sunlight falling on them.
21:46
They are darker than coal. They are incredibly dark and,
21:50
and, and they are, they are so dark that they would make a lump
21:53
of coal sitting beside them look right by comparison.
21:58
Well, we're, we're talking a scale of technology that that
22:01
people these days can't really normally encompass because it's
22:05
so big. Remember, we're talking about a
22:08
20 mile sized spacecraft, ancient, battered, bombarded by
22:15
meteors. It's incredibly old.
22:17
It looks to be millions upon millions, about millions of
22:19
years old judging from the imagery.
22:22
But it is battered and a derelict none the less.
22:26
And as they said a moment ago, it's incredibly dark.
22:29
Now. Darkness implies carbon.
22:33
Where we are finding other dark objects, they are also what they
22:37
call carbonicious. They are rich in carbon or
22:41
carbon absorbing compounds, and that's what makes them dark.
22:47
And that's a building block of life, isn't it?
22:49
It's one of the building blocks of life as well.
22:53
There appears to be some real problems in ascertaining the
22:56
composition of these objects. Astronomers have been trying
22:59
first from Earth, which is very difficult because they're so
23:02
tiny and so dim and they're so dark and they're so close to
23:05
Mars that Mars basically swamps the signal in the telescope.
23:10
So you can't really isolate the signatures of the two moons
23:14
against Mars. So to do that, you got to go
23:16
there. You got to send a spacecraft,
23:18
which is what we started doing re meaning the human race back
23:22
in the 60s and 70s with the Russians and with the Americans.
23:28
And yet all those missions also have come up with very ambiguous
23:33
results for the composition of Phobos and Demos.
23:37
And so this latest set of efforts are trying with much
23:41
better instrumentation, sectrographs, etcetera,
23:44
etcetera, to scan from really close range to the surface and
23:49
to probe it underneath with electronics to see what they're
23:52
made of. And the results are more and
23:55
more unusual, which again is part of the database that is in
23:58
the archives tonight, which basically is telling them these
24:02
things are artificial. But the point is, in 1989, the
24:07
Russians confirmed by means of their measurements that Phobos
24:12
was about 1/3 hollow, and they published this data in the most
24:18
prestigious scientific journal on the planet called Nature,
24:24
Edited right out of London, right next to you there.
24:28
Yes, I know it. Then the story fell away like no
24:32
one seemed to understand the implications of a natural object
24:37
that is 1/3 hollow. That can't be.
24:42
You can't form a natural object that's one third hollow.
24:46
You can try. You can do all kinds of arm
24:49
waving, you can write equations, you can do hydrodynamics of how
24:53
bodies form in the early solar system.
24:55
But bottom line is an object that's formed that way does not
25:00
stay that way. Why?
25:01
Because we have something called gravitational creep.
25:06
It's kind of like what happens with glaciers where on the short
25:11
term, you know, ice appears to be a very solid, very strong
25:15
substance. But under long term, it flows,
25:19
it sags, it creeps, it's plastic.
25:23
It it does not stay in its own configuration.
25:27
It will flow to fill a cavity if there is a cavity under gravity
25:31
well, even under the light gravity of photos, if this thing
25:35
had been made of separate objects, over time, they would
25:39
have been welded down into one object and there would be no
25:42
hollow spaces left inside. And yet, according to the ESA
25:46
spacecraft now Mars Express, 21 years after the Russians, their
25:53
latest published data in the journal I believe, Geophysical
25:58
Letters, I believe that's where they published in the last month
26:03
from their 2008 flyby and their radar probings from Mars Express
26:08
of Phobos. The European Space Agency has
26:12
published that Phobos is 1/3 hollow.
26:17
That raises enormous questions even just by itself.
26:21
However, the icing on the cake the the absolute piece of
26:27
information which tells us that Phobos is not natural, but is
26:31
artificial from the radar, because the radar scans which
26:36
were made, as I said, when Martyrs Express flew down past
26:40
Phobos as close as 67 kilometers, which is, you know,
26:44
it's been distance. They got measurements, radar
26:48
measurements, radar imagery, 3D imagery that allows them to see
26:55
objects now inside photos as small as about 14 feet.
27:00
That's pretty small on a moon that's 20 miles across.
27:04
OK, Think of it as a interior CAT scan or X-ray, except it's
27:10
by means of radio waves. And then with a computer, you
27:13
turn the radio reflections into an image, you know, an XYZ plot,
27:17
that kind of thing. It's on those X-ray images which
27:21
our source has been looking at our ESA source on his computer
27:25
screens in Rome as part of the radar team, which says that not
27:31
only is Fobo's 1/3 hollow, but that the 1/3 hollow, this comes
27:35
with interior geometry. They're seeing rooms, they're
27:40
seeing walls, they're seeing floors, they're seeing
27:44
bulkheads, they're seeing artificial structure.
27:49
Well, yes and no. That's a very perceptive
27:52
question because if you look at the closest imagery, which is up
27:56
on the Enterprise mission.com website in the in the two-part
27:59
paper for the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky and
28:04
it's called Phobos. Just click on the banners at the
28:07
top. Even though the banners are
28:08
blank at the moment, there's a, a slug line underneath saying
28:12
how Phobos is the key to a real space solid revolution.
28:15
If you click on that, you will, it will take you to the papers
28:18
until I can change the banners. That data is telling us that
28:23
that this these things were made and when you look at the
28:26
imagery, there is still enough geometry visible on the surface
28:31
despite the meteor damage. The stunning rectilinear
28:35
geometry that looks almost like someone had designed this like a
28:40
fresco. In the close-ups, you see these
28:43
multiple right angle patterns on the surface that are obviously
28:48
indicative of underlying structural detail being exposed
28:52
by micrometeorite abrasion. As the surface is being worn
28:56
away by micrometeorites, you're seeing interior structural
29:00
detail, bulkheads and beams and plumbing and all the rest of
29:05
what you would need to make a spaceship that big.
29:07
And that is being revealed in the imagery.
29:09
So we can see the geometry on the images.
29:12
It's matching more or less the geometry seen in on the interior
29:17
of the radar, which we have not yet seen.
29:20
They have not released the actual images.
29:22
What they have done, however, is they have put an actual radar
29:25
plot up on the ISA website devoted to the Phobos
29:30
encounters, which we have put, of course, in our papers on
29:34
enterprise. And I guess you have put it on
29:36
your website. And that radar plot, if you're
29:40
any kind of an electronics engineer or a radar guy and you
29:44
look at that plot, that tells you that one plot alone tells
29:49
the trained engineer, Oh my God, those radar signals are not
29:53
coming back from the inside of a natural object.
29:57
So this is 1 great big cosmic smoking gun the only.
30:02
And it's so big. And the reason I think S has put
30:05
the data out there is because they want to get caught.
30:09
They want some reporter to ask them on the record because it's
30:13
time. But they're not going to release
30:16
the story unless someone asks. There are three ESA meetings
30:20
that are coming up. They're going to determine the
30:23
trajectory, pun intended, of where this goes and how it
30:26
impacts all the rest of us. The first meeting is in June,
30:30
which is a meeting of all of the ESA investigators.
30:35
And I don't know whether it's going to be in Europe or in in
30:39
Rome or I, I know it's one of those two places, but I can't
30:43
remember off the top of my head where this meeting is going to
30:46
take place. The next meeting which is
30:49
specifically about the Phobos encounters will be in September
30:55
and that will be held, I believe in Amsterdam.
30:59
Third meeting, which relates specifically to what will happen
31:02
next. Obviously if you have an
31:04
ancient, you know, 20 mile size spacecraft, you got to go look
31:09
at it and you got to go inside. You got to bring back samples,
31:12
you got to bring back pieces for the home crowd to analyze in
31:16
incredibly sophisticated laboratories here on Earth.
31:18
Well, I would have thought so. We need to get Bruce Willis up
31:20
there pretty quickly, don't we? No, you don't need Bruce.
31:24
What need what you need is a good robot.
31:26
And lo and behold, there is a good robot on its way within the
31:32
next few months to Phobos. It's called the Phobos Grunt
31:36
mission. It is being run by IKI, which is
31:40
a subset of the Russian Academy of Sciences out of Russia.
31:45
It is the Russian Space Agency's next unmanned mission to Phobos,
31:50
which is loaded for bear, as we say here in the United States.
31:53
It carries all kinds of incredible goodies in the way of
31:57
instrumentation to really get a handle on what this thing is,
32:01
including its artificial aspects.
32:04
And it is being sent to Mars, to Phobos next year to arrive in
32:09
2012 by the Russians. And the third meeting in the
32:14
three that's coming up to talk about the Mars Express data on
32:18
Phobos is going to be held at the Russian Space Institute in
32:22
Moscow in October to pacifically plan how the ESA results impact
32:29
the Phobos Grunt upcoming mission.
32:31
Where does this leave NASA? Out in the cold because NASA has
32:36
a spacecraft in orbit. Yes, it's called Mars
32:39
Reconnaissance Orbiter, but it is orbiting Mars within a couple
32:43
of 100 miles of the surface and gets nowhere near Phobos.
32:46
In fact, it can't even get photographs that are as good as
32:49
Mars Expressed because it doesn't get anywhere near
32:51
photos. So basically the only the only
32:56
way this game is going to be run now is between the Europeans and
33:00
the Russians. Well, what can they do about it?
33:03
If Issa and I said, we know this data is spread across so many
33:07
countries and so many grad students, because they're the
33:09
ones that have to do the work. When you when you take a radar
33:13
scan of an artificial body in space from a spacecraft, so many
33:18
things have to be integrated to make that possible.
33:21
From the engineering of the spacecraft itself, to its
33:24
trajectory, to its power requirements, to getting the
33:27
data, to getting the data home, to analyzing the data, to
33:31
writing papers, to, you know, so many people are in the loop on
33:34
this that it is a secret that is just waiting to be born.
33:39
It is. And it does not involve NASA or
33:42
the Americans. Now, that's only in the first
33:45
round because the Russians are going to be going with their
33:49
unmanned mission called Phobos Grunt in 2011, arriving in 2012.
33:55
And they have the instrumentation on unequivocally
33:59
to not only confirm everything I've said about Phobos being
34:03
artificial right now, but they have the capability because they
34:06
build it into their mission to bring a sample home.
34:11
They will have the capability of returning actual Phobos stuff,
34:16
including maybe, you know, computer chips.
34:21
Wow, it's really simple because the Americans, we us guys with
34:24
NASA is the only team that concealed a human mission to
34:28
Phobos within a reasonable time frame.
34:32
Well, that's one of the scenarios.
34:33
It's one of the models. I have been saying for a long
34:35
time, the Martians were our great, great, great, great
34:38
grandmothers. This will allow us to prove it.
34:41
And the way you prove it, you simply find DNA.
34:44
You do adna match and Mingo there you are.
34:46
All right, And in a 20 mile size spaceship, I will bet somewhere
34:50
deep inside in the bowels of this thing, you're going to find
34:54
bodies. You're certainly going to find
34:58
residue from which you can get DNA even if you don't find any
35:01
bodies. Think of it as an exploration of
35:04
the Titanic on a Titanic scale. Remember how Ballard, Doctor
35:11
Ballard from Woods Hole went down with the with the various
35:15
Rs VS you know, deep, deep sea, you know, submergence vehicles
35:20
and explore the Titanic Titanic by remote control.
35:24
In fact, even running robots inside the Titanic, inside the
35:28
main ballroom, inside the Keep in mind, exploring Phobos and
35:33
exploring the Titanic are very, very, very similar.
35:37
Why? Because of the Titanic.
35:40
You had a huge ocean liner lying on the bottom of the ocean.
35:45
In an ocean in water. If you create a robot with
35:49
neutral buoyancy with little propellers, you can move around
35:52
with lights and cameras and other instruments inside
35:56
Titanic, just like you can move around in almost zero gravity.
36:01
A suitably equipped spacecraft inside Phobos to do exactly the
36:06
same kind of exploration, including live television to the
36:12
surface, which will then be relayed from the surface
36:15
spacecraft all the way back to Earth.
36:18
Put on every channel so that you can literally watch the
36:21
exploration of this artificial moon, this spacecraft, in real
36:26
time as initially the robots and eventually the human explorers
36:31
explore this on global television.
36:34
Well, this is doing stuff down here.
36:36
Look, when anybody creates a mission into space, the money is
36:42
never spent in space. The money is spent down here.
36:46
The money employs metallurgists, chemists, physicists and rocket
36:50
engineers, electronic specialists.
36:53
And those people, of course, all have lives.
36:55
They have families, they have car payments, they have
36:58
mortgages, they have, you know, kids in college.
37:01
So they're spending their money that they get from the space
37:03
agency in dry cleaning, in restaurants, in car repairs, in
37:09
college tuition. It's called the economic
37:12
multiplier effect. So.
37:14
What? So what?
37:15
What comes around the circle goes around the circle and
37:17
everybody benefits ultimately. I see what you're saying.
37:19
Goes around the circle and it's multiplied.
37:22
If you know anything about economics, one O 1, it's called
37:25
the economic multiplier. And for the Apollo program,
37:29
which is a major program that I've been interested in, of
37:31
course, from NASA, which went to the moon, you know, 47 years
37:35
ago. We've now had almost a half
37:38
century to look at the data from Apollo and what it did to the
37:42
economy. It turns out that over a
37:45
generation from these studies, and these are absolutely top
37:49
notch blue ribbon academic studies.
37:51
So we can't really doubt the the, the bottom line.
37:54
We can doubt maybe the actual number, but you've moved the
37:57
number back and forth a smidge and it's still the same number.
38:00
It's still the same order of magnitude they have estimated
38:03
from their calculations based on looking at economic indicators
38:07
all across the American economy. The from Apollo, basically we
38:13
got the 21st century in economics and electronics.
38:18
In other words, for every dollar spent in Apollo over a
38:22
generation, which is 20 years, this study concluded that the
38:26
American economy had made $20 in gross national product for a
38:33
multiplier effect of 20 to 1. Howard, if I gave you money and
38:40
I said, OK, I want you to go and I want you to spend $100 over
38:44
here and in a few years you're going to make 20 times, you're
38:48
going to make 2 grand off of the 100 bucks that you spent because
38:53
of all federal monies, of all government spending.
38:56
Spending on space requires something called research and
39:00
development. And economists worldwide agree
39:05
that 95%, the economic growth all over the planet.
39:10
I don't care whether you're in Thailand or Bangladesh or Mexico
39:14
or United States or the great, you know, you know, Great
39:18
Britain, 95% of economic growth is based on technological
39:24
innovation. If you spend money on
39:27
technological innovation, you make everybody much, much
39:31
richer. That's spent on just going
39:35
someplace. Those numbers reflect not to
39:37
what you find, but just it's the process.
39:40
Yes. Now we have to add the factory
39:43
in. How much is an ancient
39:45
extraterrestrial library computer worth on the open
39:51
market on Earth today? And.
39:53
What did they know? And what is in that computer?
39:57
So when you begin to factor these things into the equation.
40:01
We have to do it. We have to do it.
40:03
There's no way that the United States or Great Britain or
40:06
Russia or France or Germany or Italy or any nation on the Earth
40:11
can afford not to be part of this gold rush because it's
40:15
going to make everybody incredibly wealthy.
40:19
Reporters will actually start calling ESA and bugging the hell
40:21
out of them, and they won't ultimately be able to to ignore
40:25
it. They won't have to make some
40:27
kind of a response. And if they're stupid enough to
40:30
say no comment, then bingo, we've got them.
40:34
All right, It's very clear that the Europeans are in the in the
40:36
Keppard seat. They're in the driver's seat.
40:39
At what point they released this information formally?
40:44
And again, I think they're really waiting to be asked.
40:46
That's kind of the way this thing seems to be working.
40:49
The next step will be the big meeting in Moscow in October,
40:52
where the relevance of the Phobos data acquired by the
40:56
Europeans to the Russian mission becomes incredibly important.
41:00
Have you noticed our astronaut, the second man to walk on the
41:03
moon, Buzz Aldrin, wandering around television in the last
41:07
few days, clutching his Phobos model?
41:11
Yes, he started talking about it last summer during the 40th
41:15
anniversary of Apollo, and everybody couldn't understand
41:18
why. And then, and then guess what he
41:20
said? He said there's a monolith on
41:23
Phobos and everybody's going to wonder who built it.
41:30
He is trying to tell people again, without telling them that
41:35
this is a reality. And the reason he's doing that
41:38
is because he is trying to get interest in an American mission,
41:42
a human mission, not back to the moon, but actually to full
41:47
boast. Do you know, Howard, that is
41:49
easier in terms of of celestial mechanics and and rocket
41:52
engineering to get to full boast than any other place in the
41:58
solar system, including the surface of our own moon who are
42:04
in the loop in the picture Very trusted.
42:08
They hand carried the data of the ESA scans of Phobos to
42:14
President Obama's space summit in Washington three days ago,
42:20
four days ago, whenever it was last Thursday, expecting to meet
42:25
with both representatives from the president, representatives
42:29
from NASA and Buzz Aldrin to put them in the picture as to what
42:34
the Europeans have found. They were not allowed to
42:39
participate in the meeting. Why do we think that might be?
42:44
Well, first of all, that's pretty shocking.
42:46
Well, it's appalling, but there there's got to be a reason why
42:49
at. Several at several levels.
42:51
It's appalling. It's appalling at an
42:53
institutional graciousness level, you know, ASA, NASA,
42:58
etcetera. It's even more appalling at a
43:01
human level because what it means is that the administration
43:05
and Buzz Aldrin did not want to look at European data showing
43:12
them that Phobos is artificial before a certain point.
43:18
OK, now what do we call that little game in Washington?
43:21
It's called plausible deny ability.
43:26
In other words, what they were saying to the Europeans was no,
43:30
no, no, you can't show us this in private.
43:33
You have to make this public and then we will respond.
43:40
And the players and what's at stake are everything.
43:44
Because here's an interesting thing to consider.
43:48
I'm not up enough on space law to know whether this scenario is
43:53
in fact correct, but let's just run it out and see if anybody in
43:58
the European Community who of course listen to your show, know
44:01
the details better than I do. Back in 1967, most of the major
44:07
nations, United States, Soviet Union, the Europeans, etcetera,
44:12
South America, Brazil, Chile, whatever, they all signed
44:15
something called the Outer Space Treaty, which basically
44:20
precludes commercial or private enterprise development of the
44:26
resources of outer space. It also precludes nations from
44:31
claiming national territory on other celestial objects.
44:37
Like, for instance, we couldn't, we did not go to the moon in 69
44:42
and claim the moon for the United States as the 51st state,
44:45
right? We basically went there on
44:48
behalf of all mankind. And that's what the plaque on
44:50
the lunar module that Buzz read over national television, global
44:55
television says. However, the treaty only
44:59
applies, as far as my understanding goes, only applies
45:04
to natural celestial objects. If the Russians, in sending the
45:10
Phobos grunt probe to Phobos in 2011, are able able to bring
45:16
back, I don't know, let's say a piece of a computer part from
45:21
Phobos, right? Not only do they have it, but do
45:25
they then have the legal right of salvage of an ancient
45:31
spacecraft because they have retrieved a piece of it?
45:34
Nobody on Earth owns it, and it's up for grabs.
45:39
It's not a natural celestial object, it's an artificial
45:42
construct. It's an ancient derelict
45:45
spacecraft. But they own it because they
45:48
salvage it first. There's more to come, and we are
45:53
working on the more to come. We will publish it as soon as we
45:55
have Critical Mass.