Latest / Chirping Zebras / SAM HILLER | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #111

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SAM HILLER | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #111 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark Riley: Welcome everyone to Tripping Zebras, Mark Reilly virtually alongside Gino Binda Jr. and Josh Dolan, and coming to you from the interwebs. Before we start anything, I want to thank our sponsor, the Referees Crease, your one-stop shop for all your refereeing needs, from scheduling and payment to development, they do it all. So please ⁓ support them. And also want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube. Josh Dolan: Thank Mark Riley: Find us out there at chirping zebra's podcast also Follow us on the social media is the Instagram the Facebook and of course Thank you Gino little delayed there I was worried No, no, it's okay. I was I was worried for a second there And chirping zebras calm we'll get you all the information you need and also Get you ⁓ into our merch store as well. And also just a quick note Geno Binda: The TikTok. Yeah, sorry, I was I was looking at something. I gotcha Mark Riley: We know we're having a little issue on Spotify and Apple getting all the episodes out there and current. We're aware of it. Josh is working on it. So hopefully that'll be rectified very, very shortly. So just wanted to let you know. Josh Dolan: Yes. Hey dude, we're not supposed to swear in the first five minutes. Why did you bring up something that's gonna make me swear in the first five minutes? Mark Riley: All right. I'm surprised I didn't swear. And ⁓ a couple quick notes. I tried the soap that we got from Tom and Bubble Drunk over in Natick, local company, handmade soaps. I tried the hockey puck, the give your balls a scrub, and I'll tell you what, excellent bar soap. Geno Binda: Not over. Josh Dolan: I know. Mark Riley: Sam, welcome to the Zebra. So happy to have you here. Sam: Sure does. Josh Dolan: ⁓ yeah. Geno Binda: Awesome, welcome. Mark Riley: So right off the hop, what was it like to referee in the Olympics in Milan? Sam: Thank you, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Josh Dolan: Where did you apply it first? Sam: ⁓ it was a great experience. It was, ⁓ it was a lot like a normal tournament would go, but then you had all this other, ⁓ stuff going on in the background. went to opening ceremony, which was cool. ⁓ definitely a big event and you could tell the country took pride in having it too. Italy was very excited to have, ⁓ everybody there. And yeah, overall, overall great experience. ⁓ very different from. Mark Riley: Well, I applied it like the name says you should. And then I worked it around to other places. And I got yours here. I'm gonna have to drop it off to you guys so you can give it a go. But definitely support Bubble Drunk Company out in Nadek. And I also wanna give a shout out to Iliac, the company that made the head covers that Kevin Mason showed us for the Tea Off of Heroes. That work of art that they did. Josh Dolan: Exactly. I thought you would. Geno Binda: Give it a scrub. Sam: ⁓ what I'm used to with just working hockey. You know, there's a lot of moving parts in an Olympic event. So kind of go with the flow and enjoyed our time there. Josh Dolan: Thank Geno Binda: ⁓ yeah. Mark Riley: I got in touch with them and Caleb over there making us tripping zebras custom head covers for the clubs. So he sent over some options this afternoon and I picked one and they're going to look very nice. They're out of West Coast on San Diego. Out in San Diego, check them out, Iliac Golf and they do fantastic Italian leather hand stitched. Geno Binda: I mean, how is it as being like part of the like Olympics as like a referee, right? Like you're over there as an official, but you're with like other countries, right? Like you guys are a team, but you're all like from other countries, right? Like, which is like, how was that? You know, like you're over there like USA, USA, right? But like, you're there as a team, like with like a bag, everybody from like all sorts of different countries, you guys come together like. Josh Dolan: Okay. Okay. Sam: Yeah. Geno Binda: Those covers are legit. What was that kind of experience like, like, you know, dealing with referees and officials from, know, different countries in that aspect of it and be and becoming a team and growing as a team while you guys were over there. Mark Riley: I mean, they do it right, made in America. So we want to thank them. Iliac Golf checked them out for sure. And when we get the head covers, we'll be sure to show everyone, which will be really cool. And last week, unfortunately, our Bruins made their exit out of the playoffs. Josh Dolan: Okay. Sam: ⁓ so I think it's a bigger process than people would understand or think about, ⁓ at first. So the group that we had is actually a group that's been together for about four years and slowly through tournaments, ⁓ women's world championships, they would start to pick like, okay, we want to bring these women to the top women's tournaments from that top tournament was where you would start to, ⁓ be evaluated a little bit more closely. Geno Binda: Yeah, they suck. They... I mean, what are we gonna talk about? I mean, what the fuck, really? Mark Riley: There's nothing to talk about pretty much what we said the defense sucks, you know and Buffalo's gold pet me too. No. ⁓ no, I think that's okay. I think they just don't like the F-bomb. ⁓ you did. ⁓ Geno Binda: I didn't make it five minutes, but. Josh Dolan: Ahaha Sam: ⁓ they called it the road to Milano. So they knew that this was kind of like the, everybody's goal was to get to the Olympics and through, ⁓ these tournaments, they could do more evaluations, ⁓ see how you handled really stressful situations and kind of. Pull a team together that they thought would be, that would be good for the event. So we did, ⁓ the girls that I was with predominantly, we had worked for women's world championships together prior to the Olympics. So we were essentially a team anyways, ⁓ regardless of country. Geno Binda: I did swear. Josh Dolan: Yeah, and then we're at three and a half. So with the intro, we're good. Mark Riley: Yeah, we should be good. We'll make an extended intro. We'll play Jock here. Yeah, well, no, intro before the intro. Right? You know what? Maybe you can play the Irish whistle. Put that on there. That'll get us to five minutes. They'll throw you out of the game, you know, like that won't be new to you. Geno Binda: Isn't this the intro? Josh Dolan: Yes. Geno Binda: That's awesome Josh Dolan: Yes, we'll play the ⁓ Well. Geno Binda: I mean, the Bruins are lucky to be there. I mean, they made the playoffs, which was an accomplishment in itself, but, ⁓ you know, they could have been out of the playoffs very easily. They had a good, strong second half Swainman played in his head. There was a lot of good that came out of the season, which is like. Which is good, but the big question is who's going to be the captain? Who are they going to lean on? I mean, the captain of the Bruins see is a long standing tradition and they. Mm. Josh Dolan: I'll look at that and know what's here. Sam: We had mostly US Canada officials and some of us do work together in other leagues. So that helps too, because we don't just see each other internationally. Sometimes we even see each other in the PWHL or ⁓ if we work junior hockey, some of them cross the border for that too. So it's a, it's a good group. It's a tight knit group. We've done a lot of work. ⁓ And we did a lot of work leading up to that event. So it all kind of just came together and it flowed naturally. And you could tell that. Mark Riley: Yeah. Josh Dolan: Yeah, Jim and Allison. Geno Binda: You know, they didn't name one for a reason and they want to make sure it's the right guy. They don't want to just, you know, put a C on someone that's going to be here for a year or two. You know, they want us. Yeah, it's like, let's put the C on someone that's going to lead us for the next 10 years or whatever. Now that's great. I mean that process they do have with all those different international tournaments and and all those you know different events You know they put on ⁓ Those are great Opportunities for any any young young official that wants to get involved I mean that's how you like where was like your first tournament you went to you like usually you got to go someplace like You know like Mexico or something like that is like your first tournament, and then you work your way up up from there That's the same process. You know for the women as it is for the men correct Sam: It wasn't our first time on the ice together. Josh Dolan: Okay. Mark Riley: It's tough. It's tough because, you know, you're the the lineage of Berlin's captains is just I mean better than almost any team out there. And it is a question that still needs to be asked or answered for sure. I got to ask you guys about the McEvoy slash after he got slew footed at the end of game six. Geno Binda: Exactly. Mark Riley: you Sam: Yes. Yeah, similar process. My first tournament was actually in China and that was back in 20... They do. Yeah, they... Whether or not it's cold enough to hold the ice, I don't know, but they try. Yeah, pretty cool. Some of the countries they send people to, I'm like, that's crazy. Like, awesome though. Geno Binda: ⁓ nice. Mark Riley: Do they have tournaments in Mexico? Josh Dolan: you You Geno Binda: Hell yeah they do! Yes they do! That's why I brought it up! Yeah, slew foot slash. I mean, that was a tomahawk. I mean, I haven't really seen a good slash like that in long time. That was that was pretty vicious. What do you get eight games? Mark Riley: Where's the ring? Wow. All right. I don't know, they were talking about an in-person, yeah. Geno Binda: No, in-person hearing. think it's like my father said he looked at a five eight, which is kind of like a big number. But like the guy got five games to the uppercut. So this is a stick foul. So this might be a little bit more. I don't know. Mark Riley: Yeah. They talked about sick. Sam: ⁓ but yeah, I went to China. It was my first time out of the country. So that was a bit of a culture shock for me. ⁓ but yeah, so it's, always start at some other tournament and kind of work your way through like Gino said. And, ⁓ so that's part of the experience too, is not just getting to the Olympics, but the process it took to get there. Mark Riley: Well, the guy didn't get hurt though from it, which, I mean, I'm not saying the slash was okay, don't get me wrong. But that slew foot was as bad as the fricking slash. Going full tilt, kicking someone's feet out, going into the boards. I Benson deserved a beating. Didn't you do a tournament in Japan too? Did I see that? No? Geno Binda: Yeah, that was bad. Josh Dolan: Also, I mean Sam: No, I didn't have Japan. they had, ⁓ we had three Olympic qualifiers leading up to Italy. So we had a tournament in Japan. There was one in Germany and there was one in Sweden. So I was, I was in the Sweden group. So we went out there and yeah. Josh Dolan: I mean that was a dangerous flash but I mean obviously he was laughing after McAvoy slashed it because he got him like right where all the padding is so I mean that could have been a dangerous situation but I think it would be interesting or just like Mark Riley: Okay. That's right. Now, in your cruise, did you work with, ⁓ other than American and Canadian officials, did you work with officials from, say, Sweden or, you know, wherever else? Josh Dolan: I don't know. It'd be cool if they named him Captain and he started the season... suspended? As Captain before even... Geno Binda: BEND IT That is kinda funny. Mark Riley: That is a start. I mean, he didn't. It wasn't like he made sure he'd them, you know, like Brashear and him. mean, well, no, I'm saying, no, he didn't do that. It was almost like he slashed him right where he knew the padding was. I would have rather him see him just jump him and start punching him. know. Him lawn, but let him know you're there. Sam: Yeah, we had a couple of girls, ⁓ European girls, Sweden, ⁓ Austria, a couple of Finnish girls. So that's always cool too, is that you get to have these officials from other countries that you grow a bond with and you have friends in these other countries then and even working with them, you know, they're awesome. They're just great people and it's good to have them as friends as well as fellow officials that you get to see on international events. Geno Binda: I mean if he did it up high, I he got him in the head it would have been. Josh Dolan: Give him a lumber boys Geno Binda: That's a 17 minute penalty. Mark Riley: Is there a language like barrier or do they, I don't want to be ignorant and say everyone speaks English. It is. It is. I just wanted to get your thoughts on it. And our guest today, huge fan of the Avs, grew up in Colorado, Sam Hiller. And I think the Colorado Avalanche might be a good pick. Like I said during the episode, I think it's the Canes and the Avs in the final. Josh Dolan: Ahaha! Sam: So. You're fine. You're fine. It's a that is the predominant language of the IHF. So they do expect the IHF expects the officials to be able to speak a certain level of English ⁓ and understand a certain level of it. So these girls are actually very fluent and ⁓ for the most part, like we don't have a lot of language barriers. If anything, we're like on the English side trying to learn like foreign languages and trying to get like little Geno Binda: you That's a good, ⁓ Mark Riley: That's. Geno Binda: prediction. Josh Dolan: They came? ⁓ So now the NHL playoffs is basically which Bruin that we just got rid of is gonna win the cup and not the Bruins. Mark Riley: I can tell by your reaction, you're very excited about it. Geno Binda: I'm thrilled because the Bruins are out I could give two shits and I really don't I really don't care about the national hockey league right now Sam: little bits and pieces of some of their language as well. Mark Riley: Well, the game... Geno Binda: I worked with one of the Russians that came over of getting in this kid got blown up I was a Luke Alvin actually and Like this kid's helmet came off the whole thing right both our arms were down we come together I go what do you got and he's like body check and I'm like perfect me too Mark Riley: Pretty much. Pretty much. That's how this ⁓ usually works out, right? And the Celtics are out, the Red Sox suck. You know, we have the Patriots and all they talk about is variable in a hot tub. So, Boston's in a rough spot. Geno Binda: Yeah, right. Yeah. Sam: Yeah, same. It's awesome. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, it's funny. Some of the stuff they say too is like you don't know. Like they're trying to say something, but they're choosing different words and it can be a little bit funny sometimes and we all have a good laugh about it. But yeah. Mark Riley: That might have been the only panel you knew in English. Geno Binda: So this. Mark Riley: Now, Geno Binda: So this weekend our buddy JT reached out my father got the President's Award down ⁓ for the mass hockey ⁓ You know Was it mass hockey Hall of Fame? Dinner and he got the mass hockey President's Award and I walked in as they were saying the speech because I was down in Bridgewater daughter had a game zipped home zip down showered zip down a family walked in right as JT was a Josh Dolan: Okay. Okay. Mark Riley: That's right. Now, did you get to go to other events over there? I know it was all spread out. So certain events were pretty far away from other events, but did you get to take in anything? Yes. Geno Binda: Read my father's speech off and then the other recipients were The big one was Chris Nylund Chris Nylund lit the torch on Friday night in Montreal and flew down and was at the Hall of Fame dinner on on Saturday Jay Miller also got inducted Mike motto Jim Madigan in Leroux Renfro Leroux is the owner of the mall borrow Josh Dolan: Okay. Mark Riley: ⁓ cool. Sam: I did get into a speed skating event. had where we were in Milan, we had hockey, figure skating and speed skating. So you could go to those events ⁓ and you had to still buy a ticket to go to them, not the hockey ones, but like the figure skating and the ⁓ speed skating. So some of the girls like, you know, put the bill and went to the figure skating ones. Those were pretty, pretty pricey tickets. So didn't see any of that, but Mark Riley: Yes. Josh Dolan: Okay. Geno Binda: ⁓ I he coached the 82 Minutemen Flames and I grew up playing against him my whole life. So that was pretty cool ⁓ Seeing him getting into duck to the Hall of Fame. No, he never played but he also he was a big ⁓ you know big What is an influencer in the in the state of Massahawk Massachusetts as far as hockey is concerned ⁓ Especially that eight eight eight rink facility out Marlboro all that kind of stuff and yeah Watch that on TV. Mark Riley: Yeah. Sam: ⁓ yeah, right. So did, I did see speed skating though and that was, that was awesome. That was my first time seeing any speed skating live. ⁓ I didn't know, but some of our girls were there when it happened. I guess it was like appalling. Like everybody in the stands even saw it and was like just like gasp across the whole thing. So yeah. Geno Binda: Did you see the girl get caught? Josh Dolan: Okay. Okay. Geno Binda: I I'm shocked that injury hasn't happened more in that sport, but those blades are huge and the wipeouts are crazy. Mark Riley: For sure. Sam: I know. Geno Binda: But Nyland and Miller were great up there, just going back and forth and this and that. They, know, busting balls. They were funny. Sam: Yeah, I was surprised that's the first I've heard of it actually. So that's wild. I don't know if they're gonna put neck guards on them too or like that's a thing coming for that sport but Geno Binda: Alright. Mark Riley: That's awesome. Yeah, that's quite a good class right there going in. And congrats to your dad, ⁓ Gene Senior, for winning the President's Award. That's awesome. Yeah, it is pretty wild that's never happened. mean, they wipe out. I was liking the speed skater that indoor, the short track to like Greyhound Racing in the rain. You know, that one dog flips, slips and then just takes out all the other dogs and you just hope your dog, you know, gets through. That's my analogy. Not necessarily a good one. like one skater wipes out and it's over, you know? Geno Binda: It is cool and then I'm sitting there at dinner and I'm just you know, I'm I You know, I read the room and I'm looking around and you know You got all these freaking people that been on our podcast like everyone like I read right ran into Bridget Pruce She was coming back from getting a drink and I'm like, hey, how's it going? Blah blah blah. She was like wall I almost emceed this thing I go no kidding cuz I Sophia Yerkesovitz, ⁓ you know she Josh Dolan: Okay. Thank Sam: ⁓ But they Yeah, and all those race race type sports, you know, you take multiple people out It's only they got these like machetes at the end of their feet. So, you know, it's kind of dangerous Mark Riley: Yeah, it's nuts. ⁓ Now being over there, your interaction with coaches, we talk a lot obviously about communication as referees. So communicating to the coaches over there, what's that like, especially from coaches from other countries that, you know, I'm sure you're used to the US and Canadian coaches more than the other ones. Geno Binda: GMC the night and she did they didn't know what the Bruins were doing and all that so like she was as a backup So was like, well, that's awesome. Good for you ⁓ So yeah, so that would have been pretty that would have been a really good feather in her cap But no, it's great to see her doing doing great. I see her on Nelson all the time Then you see I saw Kip ⁓ You know that they were there like his whole table ray ⁓ Who else was a bunch of people that were on our podcast that that that day with the? Josh Dolan: Okay. Okay. Sam: ⁓ surprisingly like, ⁓ Carla, she was coaching the Czech team and she coaches the Ottawa charge. ⁓ so she's, sometimes we see coaches who, ⁓ are actually North American coaches who are coaching these European hockey teams. So sometimes that makes it easier for us if we already kind of know them. We know them previously from other tournaments too, because those like world championships that we worked leading up to it, a lot of those teams are involved in those. Geno Binda: We did it level, so. Mark Riley: Well, and obviously Chris Nilan, a former guest, right? And so that's really cool. Did you talk to Sophia at all? Geno Binda: Knuckles, yeah. I did not ⁓ I sat in the back, but I didn't get a chance to say hello I was gonna say hey my I was gonna ask her to get on the podcast but Couldn't work up the I know I didn't work up the courage. I'd have enough. I only had three drinks then I drove home Josh Dolan: ⁓ Hahaha! ⁓ Mark Riley: That's, yeah. Ugh. I wish you had five and didn't drive home. Geno Binda: That helps. Sam: So we see them a lot. ⁓ So most of the coaches speak English. They are respectful. It's a really respectful level of hockey. So really the yelling and screaming isn't tolerated in the IHF. There's a really firm stance on that. So I think they do a good job of making sure that like coaches and officials when we communicate, we're very respectful. ⁓ And as far as like coaches who don't speak English as fluently. Geno Binda: My father had a room and he goes you gonna stay and I'm like no I gotta get up in the morning go to Bridgewater Josh Dolan: All right. Mark Riley: All right, well, we'll have to reach out to her some other way. If she happens to be listening right now, we'd love to have you on the show, Sophia. Geno Binda: So I drove back. I mean, it's she's got to be at some point the only person on that sports desk at on Ness and not to be on this freaking podcast. That's what I said a bridge and I go. I go, I go, ⁓ it's funny, I go, I turn on Ness and you know, my wife sitting there and I'm like, ⁓ she was on my podcast. ⁓ she was on my podcast. ⁓ she was on my podcast. He was my. Mark Riley: Right? Right? Josh Dolan: That's Riley's white whale, he wants it. Geno Binda: you Sam: There's only like really one that comes to mind. ⁓ And usually we find the captain and the captain speaks English really well. So we find an avenue that is not traditional, but you can find a captain or somebody else on the team. You identify which player speaks English the best, and then you work through that player to speak to the coach. But the level of respect is still there and you just have to keep in mind that Mark Riley: Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. It's very cool. Geno Binda: And you know what about Sophia? I mean, Bridget brought it up. Maybe this will get her on. ⁓ I thought this was really cool that like, you know, she's a good mentor, a good leader. ⁓ And, you know, especially in this industry, she was like, you know, a lot of women can be very catty. Right. And, you know, ⁓ hey, you're trying to take my job. I'm not going to help you. Like she is so helpful, so encouraging, a great teammate, ⁓ you know, all that kind of stuff. And I was like, ⁓ that's great to great to know. you Sam: a lot of these people English as their second language or their third or their fourth language so when you speak to them you have to slow it down articulate ⁓ no slang you know they don't understand as many slang terms so just being slow and direct about it and usually you can get your point across Geno Binda: She was like, oh, it's just a good working environment over there at NASA and in everything they're doing so I was like, oh good for you. That's awesome It's good to hear Mark Riley: Most of the college captains, think English is a second language for them that I've dealt with. know, tell them one thing and they go over and tell the coach the exact opposite. Like, what the hell, Geno Binda: you Mark Riley: Very cool. She gives good health tips too on Instagram, no lie. I bought a snake plant because of her. She talked about snake plants, I swear to God, activating at night. Listen, it's just a plant, but it activates, listen to me, I'm telling you, she explained what it does. You put it in your bedroom because at night it activates and takes in carbon dioxide, pumps out oxygen so you sleep better at night. Sam: Yeah, Something else happened. Weird. in translation somewhere between the circle and the board. Right? Geno Binda: What the fuck is a snake plant? Bypass the captains go right to the coach right? Hey guys, no disrespect, but Mark Riley: Right to the coach. Josh Dolan: Is it still alive? Mark Riley: 100%. So we've had, you know, female players and referees on, we always ask them, your thoughts on bringing ⁓ checking into women's hockey. And obviously, it's a physical game already, especially at the ⁓ international level and the PWHL, but just full on allowing checking. What's your thoughts on that? and your room is less, it also takes out toxins that your furniture gives off or some other stuff. I'm telling you, I bought the snake plant and I'm sleeping well, so when I see her, I wanna tell her. You know, just saying, Sam said something about it too. So get yourself a snake plant. Anyway. Well, yeah, well you can get the snake plant and the emitter fire, let it all battle it out. Sam: Hmm Geno Binda: Your skin looks great. Yeah. Sam: My personal opinion, right, wrong or indifferent, is that I would love to see it. And I think the game is at a certain level of physicality that we're heading that direction. And I know there's been a lot of discussions about it. ⁓ And right now we've got modified, this modified body checking in the PWHL, which is going pretty well. And it's a good way to introduce this transition into women's hockey. Josh Dolan: Or a humidifier. Exactly. Geno Binda: The next sponsor, Home Gardens. Mark Riley: Hey, we'll take Snake Plant sponsor. Well, our guest today was awesome, Samantha Hiller, a long time referee and has worked, you know, the USHL, the East Coast League, the American League, and most recently was over in Milan to do the Olympics. PWHL too, yep. So she was great and I think you're really gonna enjoy this. She gives... Sam: I believe there's already full checking, full contact in Swedish leagues, Swedish women's professional. it's, yeah, so it's been done. ⁓ And I definitely could see that coming up pretty quickly for us too. Geno Binda: Swedish. Yep. Yep. They got a good video out on that too. Yeah. PWH ⁓ yeah everything she's in the playoffs right now. Let's go get to the finals The question doesn't allow it's not all is it should be in is it in hockey or should we bring it in hockey? It's how do we get it in hockey? How do we bring it into hockey? How are we gonna break the door down to say hey? This is a good thing right because like we're already seeing this experience with the with the on the boy side of things Introducing check into 13 years old and I think it's failing tremendously right from 13 to 17 years old kids are walking around in slings concussions Great interview. Mark Riley: Some great insight on women's hockey and hockey in general. She has quite a backstory and she's also a firefighter, EMT, so a first responder. So we have a lot of reasons to be impressed and also be honored to have her on the show. So without further ado, enjoy our talk with ⁓ Sam Hiller. Geno Binda: and everything else they're not even checking properly right ⁓ a check is to separate the player from the park right if you're the way the USA hockey has identified what body checking is they've done a great job doing that right everybody knows what the expectation is on a body check now it's not those big blow up hits it's kind of actually white what the PWH L is doing right they should be introducing that at eight years old and bring it all the way through because nobody's getting blown up is the the concussion rates Awesome awesome interview I was thinking that halfway through a mic. Wow, this is a pretty good interview Like sometimes you're going through them and you're like, all right, Riley gonna say wrap this up yet or what but this one here No, this one here she was great a lot of a lot of great insight on women's hockey and and in comparing to men's hockey Which I thought I left her perspective but she was talking about the American League and you know the difference between the well how the pros act Josh Dolan: You Geno Binda: You know those numbers aren't really you know I don't know what those numbers are in and you know in those checking leagues but to me I don't think they're they got to be up a little bit because it's contact and when you you know, it's physics right but to me if it's taught properly and the way it's supposed to be handled and Introduced checking as not a scary and a bad thing like you're gonna get hurt if this checking involved in your game There's no out-of-bounds. We have boards Compared to amateurs and what the difference is it's like amazing and I can just think of you know We had our junior final them are gonna say the league but you know team lost five rip in game three and it's the referee's fault like Absolutely destroyed the referee coming off the ice and we you already know who I'm talking about, ⁓ But you know it it's like what what the hell are we doing? Like why how is that the ref fault and it's just like the abuse and the Josh Dolan: Okay. you Mark Riley: Yep. Geno Binda: I just got sent the clip that and I see it in the women's games all the time. We're not ready to be checked. We're not ready. We're not when we're along the boards. We're not bracing for contact. You should always be bracing for contact, even though the checks not going to be delivered or not. I can be coming in just playing the puck just like I would in open ice and you go down. Nobody's even saying that's a check. But if I do that along the boards, now it's a big deal. Right now, it's like, ⁓ my God, he just threw him into the boards. He just checked him. That wasn't a check. All he did was just. the lack of professionalism in junior hockey, it's disgusting. And when you get up to the pros and the juniors and the I mean, into the colleges, it's less toxic. And, you know, I have some of those junior referees working college hockey. And one of the one of the comments made by one of the division one coaches was, hey, I'm not a fucking junior ref. Don't talk to me like a junior coach. Don't talk to me like that. Right. And the kid had a Sam: Mm-hmm. Josh Dolan: Okay. Geno Binda: He's going from the park. He extended his arms in my arms and shoulder made contact with the guy going for the pocket out. Now he's flattened into the boards and now I'm getting two and ten far right. Like that's not what checking is. Like you've got to be ready to receive body contact at all times when you're playing hockey in the long boards. They're not even teaching that like in women's hockey. I see it in college hockey all the time. And when you see a girl get blown up along the along the boards, they're like, ⁓ well, she wasn't expected to get checked. come back down to reality and realize where he was and learn how to communicate right and if you treat everybody like that even those junior coaches they're going to be like holy crap and then you got those guys right by the you know what and you know they'll be eating out of your hand the rest of Josh Dolan: Okay. Okay. Mark Riley: Well, I think the only, I mean, five rep, that's not the ref's fault. The only game, the only team that might have an argument. Oh, well, there you go. There you go. But even five, one, the only team that could have an argument as blaming the ref would be Anaheim. The other night, I don't know if you saw that item. Geno Binda: Well, no, it wasn't a check. She just made body contact. You got to expect to feel body contact and learn how to how to position your body with the puck so you don't get blown up and put yourself in vulnerable position. That's my take on it. Actually it was 5-1 actually in the one goal they got, shouldn't have counted. So I always say 5 rip. Mark Riley: What's hilarious, you know, is you well articulated, first of all, and I agree with you 100 percent, but I refereed you when you played and your intent was never to separate the man from the Geno Binda: ⁓ the icing? No, I got a take on that, dude. That's not as bad as you thought. I almost did like a reel and I'm like, I don't know. What kind of stance is this? Like I had like, you know, those stupid like Instagram things when like your face is there and you talk about it. And I'm like, I don't know. I did it. No, it's not the right call. It's the right call in the right time when he made it. Yeah, but I didn't checking was totally different than that was totally different. I try to kill people. Mark Riley: Yeah, yeah. You wanted to kill people. You wanted to kill people. That was your call in life. Josh Dolan: Okay. Sam: That was, yeah, that... This doesn't apply to him. Mark Riley: So you think it was the right call? Geno Binda: Well, no, I mean what the way the way the check and rule is written right like if you have the puck and I come in and I bump you and I go and take it right that that's what you're supposed to do and when I when I come up and step up on you right I'm stepping up and angling you off the puck like I'm not stepping up and trying to throw you into the fourth row and if I do that right like the only way to do that is get your arms up, but That make any fucking sense? Okay, so what's the hybrid icing rule? The hybrid icing rule is you're make your decision by the docks, right? And when he was making the decision by the docks, Eichel had pushed left, was rolling left, from his sight line, it looked everything, when he made his decision, boom, Eichel's wet in that puck. And as he's waving, Michael's not getting that puck. It's going the other fucking way. It'll blow your whistle. But he made his decision at the docks, right? So he did the right thing, and as the play's going, the defenseman cuts underneath. Mark Riley: Okay. No, I agree. I agree. I was just commenting on you back in the day. ⁓ Josh Dolan: Okay. Geno Binda: I'm just saying how how it's supposed to be. I don't know. I just think checking I I just think we need to introduce it is not a scary thing I think we need to introduce it as just part of the game and learn how to expect contact all the time without an actual hippie and throw Mark Riley: You Sam: you Mark Riley: No, I go. Geno Binda: And the puck's rolling that way now. It was on edge. The puck never had the puck appeared as though it was going more left and into the corner. And then it it dips into the corner. It's a perfect case of this play just fucked the ref, right? Like there's nothing to do with the decision of the ref, like maybe take it to center ice, maybe call it a referee ever, maybe correct the wrong. But what happened. Happened right. It looked like it shouldn't have been icing. It should have been way. And then all of a sudden Sam: and I'm And I agree with that. That take is that we have to teach people how to hit properly, but we also have to teach people how to receive properly. And that's like, that's a whole dynamic. So, ⁓ you know, those people that are making quick turns on the boards, knowing that there's a defensive player right on them and they're making that quick turn and then getting hit in the back, you know, putting themselves in a bad spot. We have to teach people like you run the risk of hurting yourself. Geno Binda: Yes. Josh Dolan: Okay. Geno Binda: It's fucking nice, right. And that it happened in a split instinct. It happened to split fucking second. That's the problem with the hybrid icing. That's the one of the rare cases that that that it doesn't work. But to me. It looked like I was going to cut in and get it. And if the puck was going the end wall cycle park, that's a wave in that if it goes to the corner and with a D kind of cuts in, but it's icing. Mark Riley: Well, it's Sam: If you do a quick turn like that and you know that some defenseman's on you. ⁓ things like that. So. Geno Binda: Right. ⁓ you just release the puck and you know, I'm on the board that I just get bumped and you know off balance and you know, you get hammered into the boards and that's that. Sam: Right. Yeah. So I think they're doing it in a fashion that works for, I think it'll be easier to introduce maybe down the line because they've had this modification. So our modification basically is you have to be going in the same direction. So you're in the same direction as the other players. So that eliminates that North, South, East, West type deal. You have to make that play ⁓ on the puck. Mark Riley: Well, it looked like I thought it Yeah, it looked like... Yeah, but Ike wasn't in front of him at all. That was my thing, was that even at the dot, he wasn't in front of him. Geno Binda: Mm-hmm. You're judging the speed and the in the momentum, right? Eichel makes that cut and he was going to get to that puck as soon as he makes that cut. Mark Riley: Iko was flying, Iko was flying but then he stopped skating because he figured it was icing. 99.9 % of the time they call that icing in the NHL. No? And I think his late, I think if he waved when they were at the dot, he would have been alright. But he waited to wave it till the puck was in the corner. But he made his decision at the dot, you gotta wave it at the dot. It was a late. Sam: So you can't just hit them to hit on the pucks, gotta be present. And then, ⁓ you know, obviously just making the contact legal in general, like arms in, ⁓ no extension, nothing like that. So yeah, no, and no change of lane, right? So like that was the lane you were gonna take. You're not gonna completely step out of your way to blow this person up, whatever. So I think having these modifications, those are the things that, that is how we want people to hit. Geno Binda: No extension, right? No elevation, yep. I think you're right, but what I'm what? Because he didn't know where the puck was going, direction the puck was going, right? Mark Riley: wave and it made it look like he made the decision after the dot. Do you know what I'm saying? Sam: that you want them to hit in the same direction. You want them to make a play on the puck. Those are the provisions that we have in that league that are kind of slowly inching them towards like, okay, now that we know what good body contact and body checking is, now we can just say it's good to go. now, you know, so those cross, those center ice hits or whatever, the open ice hits, that would still be an illegal hit because you're going opposite direction and you're still like, Geno Binda: I don't know, I thought it was Kona. Mark Riley: Quenville. Geno Binda: I thought he waited long enough to to make his decision. But but the the the puck, the puck, even even even him waiting like it was still icing. It was still it was still no ice. I mean, even him by him waiting. It was still no icing until the second he the second he made his signal. That's what it all fucking went went to shit. The second he wave, that's when that puck skidded to the corner and the guy cuts underneath. And then then it's him like. Mark Riley: But you make the decision at the dot. ⁓ No. Sam: you have to assume some risk there if you don't have your heads up and whatever. But everyone has to take some responsibility on these checks, you know. Geno Binda: I agree and like responsibility, like Mark said, like I used to blow people up and like I like I'm I'm one of the only supervisors in Division one that's a men's and women's supervisor. So I handle both genders and they played both differently. And we were sitting in a men's meeting and they were showing a clip where, you know, this defenseman blows up a forward who's like a left shot just right at the top of the circle, just about to like get the puck and fire it. Josh Dolan: We will. Mark Riley: I think it should have been waved right off the hop. I called right off the hop, I think I understand what you're saying. I know what you're saying about angles and whatnot. And if he made that decision though, he should have waved it sooner. He shouldn't have waited. Geno Binda: I've watched 150 fucking times like I don't know. I don't know if you're calling that right off the hop. And sight lines too, like his sight line didn't really help. I think if he was on the wall, I think if he was on the other side, I he has the call. But where he is, he's looking at it from this angle from the from across the ice. And it just looked like I was going to get the fuck from. Josh Dolan: you Mark Riley: All right. Geno Binda: And the kid coming across all he did was play the body and absolutely kill this kid right and the coaches well hey what's my place to both to do they're not not hit him well yeah go for the puck if he was going for the puck there the heads not contacted he's actually you know going in the same direction and he got a bump him off the parking probably might even beat him to the park never mind just trying to kill him in and now you run the risk of a major penalty right so it's like. Mark Riley: 100%, I know what you're saying. I just think, I don't know. Well, they put it in the back of the net and that was the winning goal. So yeah. You know? Geno Binda: I don't think it was as bad as everybody like. Well, yeah, it ends up in the back of the net. Right. I mean, that's what that's what I mean by it's like. If if that was in the Minnesota, Colorado game in the second period, we're probably not talking about that fucking ice and call. That's what that's my point, right? So let me ask you this, OK. Derek Schooley came up to me at ⁓ at the. Josh Dolan: Okay. Mark Riley: Well, no, because there was 15 goals. Right. But they did put it in the back of the map. Sam: Yeah, your stick and arms might actually be down if you're trying to play the puck. So pretty simple. Geno Binda: Exactly. Right, and you're not gonna run the risk of a major penalty if that's the case, right? Mark Riley: All right. Geno Binda: you rules committee stuff when you're, you know, you throw it around rules at the end of it. Say. Say there's a trip miss in overtime or an ice and miss like this, could that be a challengeable play that that they don't get like a chance to recover from? So like he's not saying if this play happens in the second period, that's fine. I get a chance to recover from it. If they score a power play goal, I still got a chance to recover. But, know, I can't recover from it if it ends the game and over. Sam: Yeah, absolutely. So I'd love to see it. I think the game needs it. I know that the girls want to do it. I know that they would love it. I know the fans would love it. So like give the people what they want, you But make it legal. Geno Binda: And I agree with the sentiment that a lot of the Division I women's coaches do not want it to start in college hockey, even though most of the players are going to the PWHL. And the ones that are going, those are the ones that can really handle it. Those are the elite of the elite athletes and the elite players. If you take Division I college as a whole and you allow checkings, most of those players aren't ready for it. And a lot of them will get injured and would be probably a bad situation. Sam: Right. Geno Binda: And I'm like, interesting. Only in overtime, like a mistrip or a mist, like the hook, like, yeah, right. Only but only only only only. In the end result of a fucking of a game, and that's what I said to him, I go. Mark Riley: So it would be only in overtime. But now aren't you reviewing minor penalties? Now we're going back to minor. But I think that icing situation. in order to. Geno Binda: ⁓ If you if it's you know who knows but that's concern at the college level and the other concern I thought was brought up like okay, you're you have someone checking for four years now They were senior and a freshman comes in never checked before and you know now you're expecting them to you know Feel the body contact at that level so I mean I think it has to be introduced at the younger levels if it's gonna happen That's just my my opinion Is it a hook? it a trick? Like, like, toe pick? We write all this kind of crap. But it was interesting, though, concept wise. Mark Riley: No, I don't think you can get into penalties. no, in overtime though, in icing, really, icing that, ⁓ wrong or missed icing that results in a goal should be challengeable. When does it happen? How many times did it happen? Not much, right? But in that game, it decided the game. So that's another, we'll have that discussion another day. We'll wrap this up on that note. Sam: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: I agree with that. mean, if you learn how to hit and back in the day, we hit right off the hop. And again, you're learning when kids are about the same size and not waiting till one kid hits puberty and he's 210 and another kid is a buck 20 and getting, you know, killed. And I think I know, like for me, my daughter played with boys. know, Sam, didn't you play with boys in high school, right? And JV? Yeah. Sam: Right. Mark Riley: Let us know if you think it should have been icing or not. Joel Quenville almost had a heart attack in the process, so. Geno Binda: Well, we could just we should just cut this up right now and set it out as a real. Mark Riley: Well, we could do that too. We can always take a real lot of anywhere. Geno Binda: Yeah, we should we should like throw this out if we're putting this episode out. That's a good one. That's a good conversation, because like, I don't think like I don't think it was that bad. I don't think the yeah, yes, I don't think they got the call right. But I think the process of getting the getting to how he made his decision wasn't wrong. If that makes any fucking sense. Yes, I was OK with it. Like, I'm OK with that fucking with that error. Mark Riley: So I mean, think those stand out when they start playing girls hockey, you know, only girls hockey. Those are the ones that, you my daughter got penalties all the time because she was running through people, not hitting them, you know, because she was used to the contact. So I think that's definitely something that needs to change. Sam: Yeah, yep. Mark Riley: All right, well, we'll do that. process and getting it wrong was okay. But the call itself was wrong. All right. All right. That's gonna do it for us. What an episode. Sam Hiller, ⁓ icings, playoffs, all kinds of good stuff. And head covers that's coming from Iliac. ⁓ We want to thank our sponsor, the referees, Kreese. Sam: Yeah, and it's going to be hard to convince youth hockey that they need to have more contact because that's where I feel like we're moving in the opposite direction as of right now, where it's like they want a little bit less of that contact. Geno Binda: That's well, that's my whole point, right? It's like introduce it not as a ⁓ like a scary thing, right? Like introduce it as part of how the game is going in the direction the evolution of the game, right? This is how we want the game played. This is how we want it to look. This is how it should look at at all levels, because once you're introducing it at 14, like 13 or whatever, they are allowed to check now. Like these kids are like. Sam: Mm-hmm. Right. Mark Riley: and also want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us on the social, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course, right on the money, Gino. Check out, no, that was good. Now you're all fired up now, so I like it. A lot of energy at the end, I like it. ⁓ Check out chirpingzebras.com for all your information and merch and all kinds of stuff like that. And, Sam: Yeah. Geno Binda: TikTok. Josh Dolan: That's Geno Binda: I wasn't delayed, I wasn't delayed. You know forever and ever they don't be aggressive standoff people back right and now you just releasing them to the hounds and now it's just like especially going through you know some changes in their life and now you know they just want to go out and kill somebody and they're all doing it the wrong way and it's you know not every not everybody not every program runs a checking clinic not everybody not every team is teaching it properly they just going out and take the man take the body take the body what does that mean Josh Dolan: Yeah. Mark Riley: For Gino Binda Jr., Josh Dolan, I'm Mark Reilly. We'll see you next time right here on The Chirping. Zebras. Geno Binda: Right so like that's all the hearing out there and and for me it was run out and just killed the guy with the puck and that's what I did so Yeah Sam: Right. Mark Riley: Very well, actually. You were very professional with that, Gino. And confirmed. Sam: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: No, but I mean, you're you I mean, you're rough. You're rough. You 18 game and like it's just like. You know, they hit and hit and it's like, what are we doing? And, know, it's in these kids are walking like someone's heard every every game like there's always somebody on the bench with a slaying and, know. I don't know. Mark Riley: nightmare. Well, I think it goes back to USA hockey. You know, you have non hockey people making hockey rules and it, you know, they want to, they want to emphasis the skill and you know, the small area games and all that stuff, which all has a place in development. But you have all these kids that can shoot and dangle and, you know, do all these things and run the Michigan, but have no hockey intelligence and they don't know how to, they don't know how to hit or take a hit. So I mean, it's part of the game. I don't know. I mean, we could beat this. Sam: Do you think that's a generational thing at all? Do you think like that's because when you think about like you guys, you know, I'm probably not too far from you guys, honestly, us growing up, like it was tougher, you know, and it was, it was just a tougher life. And it was like, you get knocked down, you get back up and your parents say, it off and you just keep going, you know, or you just, there's, yeah, there's no participation trophy. Like you either win or you don't win and that's what it is. And like, I think it was a different. Mark Riley: Yeah, I. Geno Binda: Yeah. No, you're right. 100 % right. Yeah, this is hockey, right? Yeah. 100. Sam: a different generation of hockey that was like designed to take a hit because we were taking hits in life. And it wasn't just, it wasn't just an on ice thing. It was an off ice mentality that we brought to the game. And now that kind of mentality is transitioning culturally and it's a, it's a social and cultural shift that makes it so that we're not, ⁓ you know, people aren't bringing that same toughness to the ice anymore. And it's, there's something to that. think that like, it's not even just the way we're teaching it or the way we're trying to change rules or whatever, but it's actually just the generation itself. Geno Binda: And it's funny you say that because like when that toughness or that grid or that that type of hockey comes out, it's exposed. It's like, ⁓ what are you doing? Right. Like like I saw it this year and my daughter's, you know, league U-10. Right. There was one team that just played on edge, played dirty, whatever. Right. And it is what it is. We're not going to relive that. ⁓ Holy crap. But like. Sam: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: That was a game. You know almost got thrown out of a game, Sam. Sam: As a parent? ⁓ Geno Binda: Yeah, my daughter got she's a. Well, I was a parent coach, I was a volunteer coach that day. I happened to get on the bench, but like she got sprayed. She's a goalie and she got sprayed like on purpose. And I I didn't lose my mind. I brought it to the podcast. And then next thing you know, the next game was fun. Yeah. I. We had a conversation, me and the coach, no. Mark Riley: I'm sorry. Sam: ⁓ Jesus. No. ⁓ He says he didn't lose his mind. Mark Riley: The salty almost came out in them. ⁓ You bring up a great point, though, because it is, I think, societal. And, you know, we've been saying it for a long time, not every kid should get a trophy. Right. And and, you know, that's not to say that we want kids to be unsafe. But, you know, there's something to be said for getting knocked down and and learning how to get back up, learning how to fail. You know. Sam: Yeah. ⁓ Geno Binda: Yeah, I know. Sam: Yeah. Geno Binda: If you watch a U18 game, you're telling me that's a safe environment. Right, like it like it's not like you got to like if it's taught the whole way up and it's taught safe and it's taught properly, that U18 game is going to be one of the best hockey games you're to watch. Right. Like I saw, you know, the U18, you know, the the mass state tournament, right. The Nationals, the teams that go on the Nationals, those are the best teams in the state. Right. Like this penalties all over the frigging place. Mark Riley: No, that's what I'm saying. No! Geno Binda: They're just killing each other, right? But like, we're not calling it because it's the state final, right? And they're just going and it's everybody's going 80 and a 70, right? So like, that's the type of stuff that, you know, we go get away from. And that's why it's not getting called properly, because it just let it just runs amok sometimes. It just it goes off the rails. Mark Riley: That's why I enjoy reffing and coaching women's more than men's. Seriously, because there's just less bullshit and the players actually listen because we all know most of us men, we evolved about 12 feet out of the cave and then stopped. So especially hockey players. You know. Yeah, it is, right? No. When Sam: Yeah, that's a special group. That's a special group in itself. Mark Riley: I know you started young, you're kind of like Gino in the sense that you started refereeing pretty young. ⁓ Tell us about that kind of road, how you found the striped jersey. Geno Binda: Yeah, I was gonna ask that. Sam: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, I was 12 when I started. ⁓ And I guess I just used to play youth hockey at a local YMCA. There was this father-daughter duo and they used to ref our games. My mom was coaching me at the time. So my mom was a, she was a coach for my youth hockey teams growing up a little bit. And she even coached like boys high school hockey and stuff. So she really knows the game. and she taught me how to skate when I was younger, props to mom. But yeah, she was talking to the dad and he said, you know, I think Sam should really get into this. I think she'd like doing it. So next thing you knew, I was going through my level one seminar and started skating games at that YMCA. And then I lived in the Boulder area. So I did some games like out in Lafayette and... Superior which is where that new rink is that's out there. So yeah, it's been I started there just kind of kept skating around and eventually I just kind of got picked up by Somebody and they said, know, you should go to this camp You should go to this Rocky Mountain District camp. Check it out. See what you think I think people had just seen me skate games around the area and they recommended me for this camp, so ⁓ Went to that and you know just kept going to different camps and stuff and just doing what I love doing. as far as the journey itself, I mean, if we talk about things that actually, the intricate parts of it, it was really difficult. Like there was no part of my career that I was like, wow, I can't believe like, you know, this is so nice and easy. Like I feel like every bit of my career was fought for. And in a sense, when I went to the Olympics, that was... a time for me to realize how much I had invested, how much work had actually gone into that. I felt like I really earned my spot there. ⁓ And so when I was coming up, you know, was 12, 13, 14 year old girl that's getting yelled at by grown humans, you know, just like going out to these youth games, like getting yelled at by genotype. Mark Riley: you Geno Binda: I don't I didn't yell at the refs, I was yelling at the coach. Sam: So I was out there just trying. Yeah, I'm sure he said something at some point, yeah, so I was just trying to get through and I actually almost quit when I was like 14, 15 years old, because I was tired of getting yelled at and I was leaving ranks really upset and my mom hated it because she'd come to my games and it took everything out of her not to beat the hell out of somebody. Mark Riley: Or you yelled at the refs though, don't kid yourself. Sam: It was just one of those things that I wanted to give up and my mom said, just stick with it at some point. Like it's going to be worth it and it'll teach you how to communicate. It'll teach you how to get through some of this tough stuff. And you know what? Those people don't, they don't know everything about the game and neither do you, but, ⁓ that's why we're all in it together type thing. So I think it was kind of like, I had to take a little push to get to the next level because I almost just gave it up. And there are multiple times in my career, I almost just like kind of. Geno Binda: 100%. Sam: jumped off the ledge and said, we're done here. ⁓ And I always had somebody in my corner saying, like, you gotta keep going. Like, it's not that bad. There's always the next game. We can learn from this or whatever. ⁓ But I think everybody's had a pretty lengthy career goes through some point like that, where you've got to have some people in your corner or somebody that believes in you when you don't believe in yourself. that was kind of a, it was a grind. It was a real grind. Geno Binda: ⁓ It's a grind ⁓ You know like you you like we always lean on on different people like I leaned on mock through like my career too and Luke Galvin and guys like that and Sam: So, yeah. Geno Binda: You know any mentors you know that you had along the way that helped guide you to you know to the Olympics and you know just to have a great career. Sam: Yeah, that was huge. Mentors and my family and some of my best friends, know, like even if they didn't understand the game, it was like, we're here to listen and support you and tell you you're still right. So yeah. Mark Riley: When was the moment, I think we all have this moment where, because we all played, right? And my dream was to play pro hockey, Gino. But then you ref and you get bit by that referee bug like that. You just realize this is what I wanna do. This is where I wanna be in the sport. You might still play, you might still coach, but you really wanna be on the ice in the stripes. At what point? Can you pinpoint a time where you just said, that's it, this is where I belong, and I'm taking it as far as I can go? Sam: Yeah, was actually, um, they don't call it regional camp anymore. think they call it futures camp or something like that. Yeah. don't know what camp it is anymore. I'm aging myself. So when it was regional camp, I went right after high school. So in 2011, um, yeah, that's the year I went to regional camp and I was going off to college at St. Thomas in Minnesota that year. And my plan was kind of, Oh, I'm going to walk on. Geno Binda: Yeah, all sorts of different things, yeah. Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: Exactly. Same. Yeah. Sam: Minnesota ⁓ and then I went to that camp that summer and that was where I kind of like just fell in love with it. Like I just loved the group that I was with. I had a really great, you guys know Kendall Amley? Geno Binda: the Sam: Kendall Hanley, she works in the like, NHL stuff, officiating development, and she does a lot for USA hockey, but Kendall was in my camp. So there I was at like 18 and Kendall was 28, and we're in the same camp there. And it was like just a great group of women. it was hard. was back when camp was a little more brutal, I think, than it's allowed to be now. Yeah. Yep. And Geno Binda: ⁓ wow. at six run in then on the ice and then you eat breakfast yep Sam: all the awareness stuff that they would put on you and whatever. It kind of reminded me of like when I went to Fire Academy, I was like having flashbacks to regional camp. This is really similar. Yeah. So yeah. ⁓ my gosh. I'm sure they're like actually. Geno Binda: ⁓ yeah. many bananas are hanging in the rink? Mark Riley: Hey, not for nothing. went to those camps 20 years before you guys. So that'll tell you how difficult they were back then. Geno Binda: Yeah, that's true. You guys did it hungover though. Mark Riley: Yeah, we did. Yeah, pretty much. It was like boot camp. It really was. That might be true. That might be true. Sam: Actually, we just enrolled you guys in the military. Yeah, exactly. Oh, no. So, yeah, it was after that camp. I came back and I had no desire to play anymore. I just I loved it. And I think also at that camp, they had told me I was talking to Matt Leaf and he said, you know, if you have any interest in Geno Binda: You were the reason why we couldn't drink. Sam: working hockey nationally, internationally, you can go to tournaments in other countries and we'll send you there. And like that had never occurred to me. I didn't know that was even a path. I didn't know, you know, but I could travel around and work hockey. I think realizing what some of those opportunities were put in my head, like, wow, like I could do something with this. It wasn't just a way to stay on the ice or a fun thing that I did on the weekends. It became something that like I have goals now. I want to see the world. want to work hockey in other countries and see how far I can take this thing. Mark Riley: took it pretty far. Geno Binda: ⁓ yeah. Sam: Yeah, they actually they had mentioned the Olympics during I think it was my national camp the next year somebody said something about Olympics and I was like, that'd be pretty cool. I could go for that. Yeah. Geno Binda: Yeah, right. Mark Riley: Awesome. And you also, I mean, you work pro hockey too, not just the PWHL, but you know, the American league and what's it like going from women's to men's, you know, and, and kind of, I'm sure that you've dealt with stuff on the men's side that you kind of like, you know, all right, calm down over there. You know I mean? Like enough of the testosterone, you know, what's What's the, what's that like switching? Sam: Yep. Yeah. Right. It's, it's not that different. Um, because it's, they're both at a professional level. So there's a, I think there's a respect at that level that like, even if you're really upset, they're not going to come off the hinges like they do in the USHL. Like there's just some, something about that level that's a little more elevated. Um, and the players for the most part, if you tell them what you saw, even if they don't agree with it for the most part, they're like, okay. I saw it this way. I don't think you're right. And I'm like, all right, well, then I'm not right. And you're not right either, whatever. So it's kind of like, just more of a business like interaction instead of this like yelling or complete like disrespect or whatever that you might get in some leagues. think for the women's side, I think the women's side has more energy for me because of the atmosphere that it's generating right now. ⁓ Not that the American league games aren't exciting and there's energy there too. I think it's just a different type of energy. feels more business like on the American league side. And I know the women are very serious, very business like as well, but it is a fun atmosphere and it's designed to be that way. That league is pulling in so many young kids and families and making hockey very inclusive. And I think that that's awesome, but it makes it more fun environment. And so, and that's fine. But when I get to the men's side, it's much more like business and like these are, it's definitely a little more serious in that manner. And the communication with the boys is, ⁓ you know, about the same. Like I don't really, I don't yell much. If I'm yelling at somebody, it really, it became something, you know? So, yeah, it's, for the most part, I can, I can reason with both of them equally. Yeah. Geno Binda: you Mark Riley: Now we've asked other female refs we've had on like, know, Kelly Cook and different ones. The NHL is the last league to not have female officials. Every other major sport has them. Do you think at what point that's gonna happen? I personally, I think it should happen. I think it already should have happened. I think there's women officials out there that are better than half the freaking guys that are there now. Sam: Mm-hmm. Mark Riley: And I've said that before, that's not a first take on that. And I'm not saying it just because you're on here. Some of those guys suck bad. But what is your thoughts on that? Sam: Yeah. Geno Binda: you Sam: Yeah, I do think there's a lot of pressure on the NHL because of other leagues, the NBA, ⁓ you know, the NFL, I think even the UFC has somebody that's a female in their rings too. ⁓ you know, the NHL is kind of falling behind and we've always been that way. I think we're always the last to do something very, very traditional. And I think it should happen within. Geno Binda: you Mark Riley: Hmm Sam: I don't see why it shouldn't happen in the next five years. ⁓ And I know we've had some women who are definitely capable, you know, and would succeed in that league. almost, it's such good hockey that like it shouldn't be that hard. Of course it is hard, but like it shouldn't because it's so, it's mostly predictable. It's mostly professional. It's like. There's something about it that it's not like being in the trenches of the ECHL. know, it's so like, I don't know where the fear comes from that we can't handle it, but we're handling leagues like the ECHL, the American league and the USHL and all these other like, you know, leagues that things are a little bit unhinged there. And, you know, the NHL is not unhinged. So I think it would be something that is within, within our realm for sure. Within the next five years. Mark Riley: Yeah, I mean, you have Jessica Campbell, who might end up being the first female head coach in the NHL. So it's like, you know, it's I think it's high time that, you know, it happens. I don't know. Sam: Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And it would be a good look. It would be good look for them. Because right now it's a bad look. ⁓ So yeah, it's something I'm sure they're working towards. And ⁓ it's just a process like anything else. Mark Riley: Yeah, what Yeah. Yeah, I just wonder what the delay is. mean, their model right now, plucking ex players out and throwing them in there is just not working. And this isn't just me. I mean, we've talked about it on here and we've talked about it with some, know, Coho and Frazier and these guys. It's just not working. And I see the female officials kind of did what Gino and I did, right? You worked your way up through, you know, the juniors and then minor league and... you know, into international stuff, you got the game count, right? Like that's the way it's supposed to work. And that's how, you know, you see guys like Wes and Rooney, they're the guys that are ⁓ tops. So I think it's high time it happens. Sam: Yeah, and that's why I think they can do that model is because the league is so good. You can take two three year guys and put them in there and they're not going to make a mess of the game because it's so good. The players run that game the way it should be run. So like aside from the odd situation that happens, ⁓ it's hard to it's hard to tell if a referee is worth their salt just by a couple NHL games. You know, I think I think it's a good league to be working. ⁓ Obviously top league, but that's more than I can ever say. Mark Riley: Yeah, sure. I was there for a week. ⁓ That's all right. Now, as far as, because you grew up in Colorado, ⁓ and now you live outside of Chicago, who is your team, your NHL team that you root for? Sam: Always an abs fan. Always abs faithful. Yeah, I grew up watching. mean, how can you not be an abs fan when you grow up watching Sackick, Waa? Yeah, like I grew up watching all those guys I can't imagine. Yeah. They're crushing it. Mark Riley: Alright. Geno Binda: I mean, Ray Bork won the cup with him. How could you not? was team for us. Mark Riley: They are wagon right now. The way that. Geno Binda: Jared Betten is a good coach. I had him in the coast league in the American league. Yeah. Yeah. He won. They, uh, he won it in South Carolina. Then he won it in Cleveland. Sam: Really? ⁓ wow. Mark Riley: And he's the future guest here. He's already said he's going to come on after in the offseason. So we're excited about that. But the way they handle in Minnesota right now is just like Minnesota is good and they're going to be good for a while. But yeah, they just they just manhandle them. No, it's just it's it's fun to watch. And there's four thousand goals being scored. So how can you not enjoy it? Yeah. Geno Binda: He's awesome. Sam: ⁓ perfect. Geno Binda: I love Heinze too. Sam: and Geno Binda: I mean, that was awesome. Sam: I also never get sick of just watching these bursts of speed that guys like McKinnon and McCarr, they just come out of nowhere and you're just like, holy, that's like a sixth gear right there. Like, wow. Geno Binda: McKinnon, ⁓ Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: I roughed my car in college, I had him a couple times and that kid is so good. Like phenomenal. Sam: Yeah. Yeah, they're they're friggin fast. ⁓ Geno Binda: ⁓ yeah, the different, it's a different level. Mark Riley: So now in life outside of the rink, firefighting and how's that compared to refereeing? Because we've had plenty of ex-military guys on here and retired SEALs and they say that military is very similar. And I'm guessing that from the team aspect, from looking out for your partner and that kind of thing, I'm guessing firefighting must be very similar. Sam: Uh, absolutely. I think, I think that's why when I talked to other officials or players that they're like, I don't even know what to do or what I want to do when I grow up, you know, saying it's like, you should, they're like 30 years old. don't know what I want to do when I grow up. So, um, I'm like, man, you should join the fire service. Like I just, it's so much like, um, it's so much like the hockey world. Like it's like. Mark Riley: Hahaha Sam: team aspect, like you said. I, and I grew up playing on boys teams, right? So it's only fitting that I have like 25 brothers now and you know, a couple of sisters, but yeah, it's a, it's a great dynamic. Everybody would put anything on the line for each other. Like we might, you know, make fun of each other and give each other a hard time. But at the end of the day, when it like push came to shove, like I'd give anything for any one of those guys. And I think that's the same in like the hockey world too. Like you've got your teammates, you'd give anything for them. And ⁓ there's definitely a lot of correlation between the two. ⁓ And I've pinpointed some of them throughout my career, just recognizing like, wow, this is just like being in a game or whatever. You've got those moments that are really intense where they elevate. And there are moments on the fire ground or moments on an EMS call that's going south, that it starts to elevate. Now you're like, okay, I got to like, the pressure's up, but I got to keep my heart rate down. ⁓ That you're kind of like maintaining this balance and trying to like talk yourself down in these situations. And the same thing happens in a game, right? That game elevates, you're like, okay, I can feel it. Like you feel like things are like, ⁓ shit. But then like inside you're like, okay, let's just breathe a little slower. ⁓ you know, just think things through. ⁓ that's the same in that field. So the adrenaline really, I think there's just an adrenaline thing too. Like I'm, must have a problem or something, but I just, I just like need that kick. can like, if I sat at a desk or something, I'd be so bored. think I'd be the least productive, least productive employee. ⁓ but yeah, I just need. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. I like need that, that rush and, that's kind of what. Mark Riley: You Geno Binda: Hmm. Mark Riley: You're in welcome company right here, for sure. Yep. ⁓ yeah. Sam: I like that every day is different. Every game's different. know, like you could see the same similar play over and over again and still pick up something different out of it. And that's how I feel about like chest pain calls. You know, like I could see this, I could see like, you know, 10 chest pain calls in a week and still like they've seemed different to me for different reasons. And like, that's a very similar thing is just like perfecting or like improving upon your craft and things that you want to be good at. ⁓ you know, being able to kind of reduce that stress under pressure and you know, that that family feel is certainly there. ⁓ And I love that when I go to work, I don't have to, I don't have to put a face on. just, I go to work and I am who I am and I don't have to filter myself and I just do what I do. And so I think that's a, it's a, it's a big benefit that, ⁓ you know, not a lot of careers have, but blue collar certainly has it. Yeah. Mark Riley: That's awesome. My uncle was a fire chief in Boston, pretty well decorated too. And then I got a nephew, I got a few people in my family that are on the fire department. So it's one of those jobs that I definitely respect to the nth degree because you guys, you could be running into a building trying to save someone's life. And I host a podcast and tell dick jokes. Sam: ⁓ wow. Geno Binda: you you Mark Riley: Yeah, I have respect for what you do. What's the craziest thing you've seen on the fired apocalypse? Sam: Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Man, I don't know that there's like one call that sticks out. Like we always have some weird stuff that happens and it just makes you wonder. Like I sometimes I'll tell people like, just don't do anything you don't want to explain to the medics, you know? Whatever you're doing in your life, like just don't do anything you don't want to like tell me about. So, but I will say it is, it's alarming how many calls I go on that people don't have pants on. Mark Riley: I'm Geno Binda: Right. Mark Riley: Hahaha Right. Sam: Like, I just don't... Like, the amount of pantsless 911 calls, just like... I don't understand. So, I'll never get that. And I think, I feel like if you ask any one of your family members, they'll be like, that may, yeah, I don't know why either, but... Mark Riley: Hahaha That's hilarious. As our friend, comedian Tony V says, you always should know where your pants are. Right? You have the whole fire department rushing in and you're sitting there. Yeah, you got to questions when that happens. Sam: I love that. Yeah, especially when you're calling 911. Jesus. Oh my God. It's something. It's something. And that's, I'm like, I've seen it all. You know, like I just, and when you think you've seen it all, you still have it. That's, you know, hey, that's another thing for the game too, right? Like you think you've seen it all and then something happens. You're like, I haven't seen it all. Geno Binda: Whoa Mark Riley: Yeah. Geno Binda: Yeah, whoa, whoa. Mark Riley: You Geno Binda: Exactly, I was going to ask what was one of the craziest things you've seen on the ice throughout your career? Sam: on the ice was actually during men's league. well, men's league special. Why is men's league like this? ⁓ so I was reffing men's league. This is probably like 12. I don't know why this was like the first thing that popped in my head, but, ⁓ it was like probably 12 years ago. And this guy, like, he got kicked out. He was upset that he got kicked out. Mark Riley: Shocking! Geno Binda: Always goes back to men's league always goes back to men's league Mark Riley: Absolutely. Sam: And he went and we're about to like get the puck, start the faceoff, whatever. All of a sudden the door opens to the gate. Buddy gets on the ice with the trashcan, full trashcan, dumps the entire trashcan onto the ice. And I was like, what in the? And he gets off the ice. just like dumps it, gets off the ice. And I was like, oh no. And I was like, wait a minute. His locker room key was still in the score box. Geno Binda: Jesus. Mark Riley: You Sam: So I was like, he's gonna need that key to get back in the room. This man did not think this through. So I went and I grabbed the key and I see him walking back towards the gate and he's just standing there. I was like, oh, did you need this? And the look on his face when he was like, yeah, I do. And I was like, you guys can clean this up and then you can have your key. Mark Riley: Hahaha! You Geno Binda: He's gonna wait a while Mark Riley: You Sam: And I was like, this is amazing. It was probably, was just one of the biggest tantrums I've seen that I was like, are you serious right now? One of those full like third or whatever gallon, what are they like 40 gallon things, know? The whole team had a little cleaning party cause I was not having it. Yeah. Geno Binda: That's awesome. Clean up on aisle nine. Yep. No, you know, wouldn't pick up one thing. Mark Riley: You handled that brilliantly. Seriously. Geno Binda: So when you were when you were ref in the Olympics, when you were ref in the Olympics, I had to bring this up because ⁓ Chrissy Langley is trying to get this into, you know, the actually college hockey is wearing mics. How was it? How was it wearing a mic when you were referee? ⁓ Like in. And what were the mic capabilities of it? Like, were you able to communicate with your all all three of partners at the same time? Did you have to hit a button? Sam: Got to the backup plan. ⁓ yeah. It was awesome. Geno Binda: Was it a live mic? Was it, can you communicate to somebody that was off the ice? Like explain that whole mic process to us, because I'm very intrigued in how it all works. And when she presented it to me, I was like, I don't know if I would like that refereeing, but that's just me. Sam: So then. Yeah. ⁓ I will start off with the fact that it's a learning curve, just like anything that's new, new technology, new, whatever. ⁓ it takes time. And at first we were like, what the hell? Like you just felt like you were hearing so many things and you were kind of trying to get used to listening here, like listening to your partner, watching the game, also having to talk to somebody else while you're listening to this. like at first. Geno Binda: Okay. Yeah, right right there. I'm out Sam: At first, it seems like a lot. And then you kind of figure out how to, you figure out how to prioritize it for one. And you also figure out how much you should be communicating. So how it worked was everybody had a mic. So linesmen had a mic, referees had a mic. ⁓ And the referee line was always open. So the linesmen, we didn't have to press like for referees, we don't press anything. We just have an open line. Geno Binda: Hmm. Sam: So whenever I was talking or my partner was talking, she and I could hear each other and the linesmen could also hear us. ⁓ And the lines, like they could only come into our line if they pressed a button. So the only way I could hear the linies was if they press a button, they start saying something and they unclick their button or whatever. The linies could always hear each other. So like you've got referees and linies always hearing each other and linies also hearing referees. but only able to communicate with us through the button, if that all makes sense. So. Geno Binda: That makes perfect sense because that's how I would want it because I wouldn't want a linesman going ⁓ did you see that and I'm like Jesus Christ, so don't trust your judgment one bit Sam: Right. ⁓ Yeah. So it was like for that dynamic, ⁓ it was also learning when was and we would share this with each other, you know, like the linies at one point they were like, rest, can you shut the fuck up? We're doing a face off. know, like, Like, can you can you stop? Can you be quiet? Sorry. I don't know if you guys filter this. Yeah. Geno Binda: Right, right, right. You could- ⁓ you can swear. We just been nice on this one. Mark Riley: ⁓ you can swear. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah, we've been polite. This is the longest Gino's ever gone without dropping an F-bomb. Sam: Yeah. This is good for him. So, yeah. So then, so then we'd say, you know, he'd be like, Hey, can you guys stop talking during our face-offs? Cause we're trying to drop the puck and talk to these players. And then we just hear you frigging saying whatever referee stuff. And so we were like, okay, we need to be like respectful when they're Geno Binda: Yeah. Mark Riley: It is good for him. Geno Binda: part of the pool, which one for you? Mark Riley: Alright. Geno Binda: Right, right. Sam: drop in the puck. then referees would just shut up because now the linesmen can just hear each other and we can just hear what's going on on that face off. And then there would be times where it's like, I'm going over to talk to a coach. So my partner would have to recognize like, Hey, she's at the bench. I should not talk because now she's talking to this coach. I can hear what she's saying. And also I'm not like talking into her ear while she's trying to communicate. ⁓ Geno Binda: Can you imagine if Ryan Sweeney was over at the bench and I was like listening to him and I'm like, I don't say that, see that! No, no, no, that's not what happened! Sam: No! ⁓ Mark Riley: I'd have trouble with it because I'm always yelling and shit just to have fun. know, like I would annoy the... Yeah, true. Geno Binda: That's where my mind's going. It's hilarious. Sam: No. Geno Binda: Right, yeah, well, I mean, you're in the Olympics. That's a little different. I mean, you're laser focused, but like. Sam: Well, we do that too, because like you still, you're still having fun, right? There's still an element of like the funness and yeah, yeah. So there's, there were definitely breaks in it where you would hear like some sort of like banter or whatever. You know, you could, there were times where like my partner fell down and I didn't know she fell because I didn't see her fall, but I heard the, ugh, microphone. And I like, and I was like, Geno Binda: Inside jokes and stuff, Yeah, yeah. Mark Riley: You Geno Binda: ⁓ I couldn't. ⁓ I would have been like, see, like, here's the banter, right? ⁓ that's a round. Like that would have been my first thing. Mark Riley: Yeah. Sam: And I was like, girl, I didn't even know you went down until I heard you. So, ⁓ yeah, we have that connection. And then the microphones are also all tied into our video review. So we can't hear them unless they queue in and press a button and say whatever we have. So like after a goal, we always have to confirm with the video review that it's a good goal. ⁓ And if it's not, they would like hit a buzzer or something, but they would just come on the thing. Mark Riley: You Sam: And you'd be like skating over to, to report it or whatever. I don't even, we weren't really reporting. You'd skate over there and you would just hear, we have a good goal. Be like, thank you. Yeah. So yeah. I was, I said that once I was like, God, is that you? Mark Riley: Thank God. God telling you. Geno Binda: Well I just did the video replay. Mark Riley: Hahaha! Geno Binda: I just did the video replay for the frozen four and you know, like we we already had the answers to everything before they even came into the booth, right? But they're they got to be the ones telling you that right? So like that time is so valuable, right? It's so quick, right? Hey, hey, we're good here before they even get and we're already communicating them until the before they even get into the box, right? Like, you know, was that, you know, time efficiency? Did you find that being valuable? Sam: Right. Right. For sure, because even when we knew our mics worked, right? So when we went in for video review, we're not worried about like, oh, all of a sudden I can't hear you or the headphones aren't working or something like, I'm already dialed in with my video review coach. So when we start running through it, they can hear us then. And the other benefit too was that as we're talking through video review, the linesman can hear us. Geno Binda: rapping. Sam: Or vice versa. Like if the linesmen were in video review, they could open up their line and we could hear them. And then we would hear what the process was, what the call was, things like that. So it expedited that little, you still have that like pow wow of like, Hey, what'd you see? you like, got a five on this. Cool. Like what'd you see on this flight? And then after we confer we're like, Hey, we're to go to review, but then they can already hear us talking. They already know what we're cause our line is open to them so they can hear everything we're saying. ⁓ Geno Binda: the whole game. See, I wouldn't like that either. I wouldn't want my supervisor knowing what the hell I'm saying. Oh my god. I don't know if I can handle that. I don't know. I'm I'm Chrissy. I'm sorry. I'm mixing the mics. Sam: Yeah. ⁓ Mark Riley: No, no you wouldn't Sam: The supervisors actually got tired. They got tired of listening to us actually. They didn't want to listen to us anymore. Mark Riley: Gino, you might have to have a five second delay. Sam: Yeah. Well, we'll have him do like a little HR course before he goes on there. Yeah. Mark Riley: Well, I would think too, like... ⁓ he definitely would need that. Gino's mic would have to be a five second delay and you'd have to be able to mute it. Yep. No one. Sam: Yeah, they got to filter it out. Right. Geno Binda: I mean, all right, let's put it this way. So like I was in the DV sport ⁓ like home base for the ⁓ NCAA regionals. So all 12 games, me and Jeff Folt were there. We were central hub, right? But through the course of the game, ⁓ we got our headsets on with, say, Peter Fiora from the ECAC and then the guy in the box, Anthony Kenny. So there's a guy on the ice level. There was a guy up in the video replay booth. And then we were at the Big Ten. But we're all watching the game and communicate and so it's kind of like similar right like hey, do you see that? What was that? It was like so like to me being on the ice was kind of like, you know I'm communicate with my partners through that way, but it was kind of nice just to communicate and watch a game with somebody at that same level So like when you saw something we were always on the same page. ⁓ he watched this angle and you're like, okay ⁓ So it is kind of similar. Yeah Sam: Right. And that was a thing too, is like something happens, right? Like you've got some sort of hit in the corner that you're like, I don't have anything on that. And you could just out loud say like, I got nothing. And they'd be like, yeah, me neither. And you just kind of, it's almost that confirmation of like, yep, we're on the same page. Like, you know, or if they do see something, now you've expedited your, your video review. Geno Binda: Intent their intent is like even as the high official no one's looking at you yet You have like, know, you have that two or three extra seconds to react to something that you know Probably should have been a penalty that your you know partner can't see or react to one time So like you have that like, you know extra, you know Extra couple of seconds to you know, throw your ammo Sam: Yeah. Right. Mark Riley: That'd be good too, like if the low guy sees something, the low girl sees something and says, no, I got nothing. The high guy's not gonna put his arm up, which happens, you know, a lot. Thank you. Yeah. Sam: Yeah, and then... A lot. And it's, you know, and if that, and if they say they got nothing and I've got, you know, an elbow that they didn't see because they're not on the boards, like, cause I have this different angle. ⁓ you could take it, but you just have to be able to articulate to your partner why you're mowing their lawn. So that's like, tell me why. And then I won't be upset about it because like, if you saw something I didn't, that's why we have these different angles. Like, so. Geno Binda: Trips, hooks and holds, right? Like. There's nothing better when you're like the high official and like you you miss something and you look down and your partner has it and they skate by you and you're like, ⁓ dude great pickoff like that was you know, Like that's nothing better than that, right? Sam: Yeah, right, the support for sure. Mark Riley: There's nothing worse than when you see something and you're shaking your head saying, I got nothing and the whistle blows and you're like, what the fuck? dude, that was a clean hit. Sam: Yes. It's hard. ⁓ And I'm sure I've done that to people too where they're like, nope. And I'm like, you and they're like, why are you like this? Yeah, that's. ⁓ Mark Riley: You Yeah. Now, brings up a question too that we've talked about. ⁓ Picking up the flag. Like, what's your thoughts on that as far as like if we know we fucked up and, you know, call the penalty or something that wasn't a penalty, like say a toe pick. What's your thoughts on that? Should we be able to go, ⁓ sorry, our bad, we're picking it up. Sam: Mm-hmm. It's a slippery slope, right? Cause then coaches are going to start jumping on us about, you know, well, what if he did toe pick and then you get guys getting convinced into not calling penalties because they're like, how did I see that? Right. And now if you have this, the one we picked up the flag, technically, ⁓ in a PW game a couple of weeks ago, where it was like the lines called too many men or sorry, too many women. And, ⁓ you know, I was. Geno Binda: Yep. Too many players just pluralized everything to pluralize everything you won't get in trouble. ⁓ my God, ridiculous. Well, because listen, we're all from the same generation. That's what we called it forever and ever. Now they want to change how we call. I just say lines. just say, you know, it drives me nuts. don't Mark Riley: I never know what to say about that. I never know what to say about that. Sam: Too many players. Too many players. I keep doing this. I had such a hard time. I know. I know. I have a hard time with it and I try so hard and I just, know, whatever anyway. the, yeah, we, yeah, we had the, we had the too many players on the ice and, she called it, but we were all, we all kind of came together and I was like, Ooh, like that girl was at the bench, you know? And like we, had five players out here. The sixth one was like at the bench. was a weird change, but like nobody, Geno Binda: We'll pick that up on the other podcast. Mark Riley: Yeah. Sam: it didn't really do anything because she was right up there and they didn't really play the puck or have an opportunity. So I was like, hey, I don't know about this. And then the other girl was like, yeah, I don't know about this either. And so we kind of came together as a group and said, you know what, I think we're good here. And we picked it up and the coaches didn't like it, but it was the right thing for the game at that time. Like we knew that it wasn't too many players. I think she just had a hard time with who got off here and who was coming on here. So ⁓ we explain that, we're like, hey, like we normally don't do this. But as far as penalty, like not a bench minor penalty, but like a penalty on a play, I feel like that's really a hard thing to start doing. Because now you're gonna start getting questioned ⁓ about every minor penalty. Like, are you sure that was, you know, Geno Binda: No, like you can't get in the you can't get into the days of reviewing minor penalties, right? You can't even entertain that because it's just a like you said a slippery slope It's ridiculous and they even like so like I just got back from Florida with the you know coaches convention and the rules rules meetings ⁓ And one of the things with the head contact right there's no major standalone for a head contact penalty there is a check from behind because you know, there's still violent penalty guys still turns and Mark Riley: Yeah, I agree. Sam: Right. ⁓ my god, no. Geno Binda: you know, extends, but does deserve to get thrown out. But a head contact like explain to me the criteria for a major. Right. Like I step up, I pop you, I contact to the head, but it was a clean check. And, you know, otherwise, like your head changed. I'm going to call that a minor penalty now. Right. And if I there's no extension, no elevation, all that kind of stuff. But the head was contacted without, you know, being avoided. You know, it's a minor penalty. ⁓ Sam: Mm-hmm. Geno Binda: You know, you really can't come up with just a standalone major with either five in game, you know, five and DQ. But the thing was a lot of the challenges this year, I feel like you call it talk, you were for head contacts that are ended up being minor penalties. Right. So they should have been a minor, but now it's just the miss miss minor because, know, we didn't call it and they challenged it and you're coming out with, that probably should have been a minor. So they entertained just Sam: Mm-hmm. Right. Geno Binda: having that penalty be reviewed for a minor situation when a referee doesn't have their arm up, right? Just the head contact, nothing else. And I was like, that still is a slippery slope because every time I step up, I'm grabbing a piece of the head. So everybody checked to me. It should be challenged. Every every single check should be done right. So it's very it's very sticky. In my opinion. Sam: Mm-hmm. could be indirect, yeah. ⁓ Yeah. And that's why, like, I do like the ability to call a major and drop down. Like, I like the ability to call a major, drop down to a two or a nothing, you know? And if I don't have a penalty on the play, but somebody on that ice does, then we go to review and we figure out, okay, is this worthy of some? But if it's not, then you just drop to nothing and it's not a big deal. Like, so those, those very like violent, you know, aggressive penalties, those ones, I have no qualms about being able to drop down for those. ⁓ but yeah, I, yeah. Geno Binda: Especially the head contact is like you might throw your arm up and go wow Pop blown up and you look right through the chest head wasn't wasn't touched clean body check. We're moving on pick the flag up. Let's go Sam: Mm-hmm. It just happened to me on, uh, what's today? think it happened to me this past weekend. Um, you guys might've seen that hit. Um, it happened in the Minnesota and Montreal game where one of the players got ejected. And yeah, for me, I was the back referee and I had the backside of the players. So I didn't, the angle I had was like to her back basically. So when she laid. Geno Binda: happens. ⁓ ⁓ okay. Yep, I did see that. Right, so you can't see where the head contact is. You're blind. Sam: Yeah. So when she laid that hit, like my arm went up because it was still to me interference is what I had in my head was like, it wasn't a play on the puck. ⁓ you know, and it could have been like an illegal body check or whatever, but, ⁓ I had something, but all I had was a minor. ⁓ and I was like, ⁓ yeah, just minor penalty, you know? And then all of sudden my partner's like, I got a major. I was like, wait, what? I was like, what? And that's because of that. And that angular difference, right? Is that he saw. Geno Binda: Yeah, right. sight lines are all everything. Sam: exactly how that happened and he's like, yeah, that was like in the head for sure. So that was, it's just one of those things that like, okay, well, like I thought it was a minor. ⁓ What if I didn't think it was anything at all? Like what if the puck had been there and you know, I didn't see it. My partner for some reason was blocked out and now we have nothing on the play and we're not able to, you know, it doesn't get challenged or whatever. Like it's just, it's hard. We got to find a line somewhere, but I think aggressive penalties that are high likelihood of injury, think that's something to protect, like, do the right thing about. Yeah, exactly. Get it right. Geno Binda: Big time and get it right. Yeah. Get it right. Mark Riley: So Olympics this year, what's up for the rest of the season for you? And what are you looking to accomplish? Sam: I'm still in PWHL playoffs, so very fortunate to be doing that right now. ⁓ No comment. So just kind of riding that wave right now and enjoying the hockey that comes with that and see what happens for the rest of playoffs, but ⁓ approaching the off season here and then. Geno Binda: Go Fleet! Let's go Fleet! Mark Riley: More comments. Geno Binda: My daughter's a huge fan! Aaron Frankel, let's go! Sam: just grinding away in the off season. So I owe a lot of swaps. My department's wondering if I still work there. I gotta show up at some point. Yeah. Mark Riley: You You Geno Binda: It's not like when you're when you're taking the swaps the days off. It's not like you just take you're going on vacation. You're you're grinding Sam: Right. Yeah. It's a, this, the hockey season's hard because I think my coworkers too, they have a hard time wrapping their, cause they, they just hear, you know, like, ⁓ I went to Boston or I went to Montreal or whatever. And they're just thinking in their heads, wow, that must be so cool. And I, and I was like, the thing that they don't understand is actually how much work it is. Like how draining it is to get on these flights to travel. exactly. Traveling alone is like, is a lot. Geno Binda: Yeah. Traveling alone, right? Sam: and traveling with all your stuff. I bring a lot of luggage. I'm not, yeah, I'm like, know, they're like, you're going for a day and a half. I'm like, let me bring my ref bag, my suitcase and my purse and this. And I'm very good at traveling light. So traveling in itself is a process for me. Yeah. ⁓ Mark Riley: ⁓ An admission right there. Geno Binda: like packing, unpacking the chore, like all of it, yeah. Mark Riley: I am like that too. will admit I'm like that too. All right. Yep. Sam: You gotta have options, okay? I can't get there and want one outfit and then it's raining and I don't have another option. Exactly, all the products. I was gonna say, Mark, you're glowing. I don't know what you're doing over there, Mark Riley: Absolutely, and you gotta travel with your products. you gotta have your skincare. You gotta have your skincare, you know? Geno Binda: I just flipped my shirt and... Mark Riley: You I do have an extensive skin care routine. I admit that. am man enough to admit I have many products I use both on my hair and on my face. So, I'm Sam: Amazing. ⁓ Geno Binda: I just flipped my t-shirt inside out and I'm good. Sam: That's respectable. He's like I brought one pair of underwear for this trip Inside out and backwards doesn't make it a third pair I Know I love honestly, it's my favorite city like I out of all the cities I've been to and trout like I just went there two weeks ago or whatever went to Fenway for the first time like I Mark Riley: Two ties in one suit. Geno Binda: Flip it inside out. Flip that inside out too. You're good. That's what my uncle calls a southie flip. Mark Riley: ⁓ We gotta get you to Boston somehow like Sam: I'm obsessed. I just everything about it. Quincy Market, like all the people. It's amazing. I love it out there. Geno Binda: The Griff hook you up and get you on the top of the green monster? Mark Riley: Yeah. Sam: No, I didn't even know what that was until I got there and I was like, what is this? But yeah, apparently it's very historic. So learn the thing. Yeah. Mark Riley: A little bit. A little bit. Well, you got to come and do it like a midget set, you know? We'll work a midget set together. A little people set. We can't say that word. ⁓ And ⁓ now this has been awesome. We really appreciate you coming on. It's always an honor to have someone who worked the Olympics. It's pretty damn cool. Sam: Yeah, we could do that. That'd be awesome. Yeah, well, I'll fit right in then. Geno Binda: Yeah, perfect. Mark Riley: You know? Sam: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was awesome being invited. So I'm happy to be on here with you guys and thanks for taking the time. Geno Binda: That's awesome. Mark Riley: No, definitely. we, you know, continued success for sure. And hopefully you will see in the PWH final and maybe in Boston, maybe in Boston. Geno Binda: Holy. Sam: Thank you. Geno Binda: They'll see at the garden. Yeah, hopefully the hopefully the fleet make it they'll be playing at the garden big house Go get tickets Sam: That'd be awesome. ⁓ my gosh, that'd be amazing. That'd be really cool. Mark Riley: Yeah, that would be cool. Geno Binda: I'm gonna call you for tickets. heard I was at the Puzo said when they played he did the garden game. He goes don't even bother like Texan. guess they they sold out and they you guys got what two tickets and they were spoken for like three seconds. Yeah. Sam: Wow, yeah, that would have been quite a game. I've never actually been to Garden either, ⁓ yeah, I gotta get out there for a game or something. Even like a Bruins game would be awesome. So that'd be sweet. I know, ⁓ that's tough. Yeah. ⁓ Geno Binda: Mm. Mm-hmm. Have to wait till next year now. Geez. Blew it. Mark Riley: Yeah, you had to bring up the words, Geno Binda: Now I got a roof of Buffalo that play in Montreal like you got a root for Buffalo like Mark Riley: I don't know. I- I'm- Sam: Or you guys could just get on the abs train. I don't know. Yeah. All right. All right. Geno Binda: I'm with you on the apps. I'll go with the apps. Mark Riley: Yeah, I adopted Vegas last year, just because of Bruce Cassidy and Eichel. But this year I want Minnesota, but I know they have no shot against the Avalanche. So I'm going Avs and Canes in the final and Avs winning it. But it's my prediction. Not bad, right? I mean, it's not I'm not going out in a limb, you know, I'm not picking a horse that's 23 to one that. Sam: Nice. Yeah. That's a good one. Geno Binda: That's a good prediction. Mark Riley: ran around 17 other horses to win the Kentucky Derby. That was fricking insane, right? Sam: ⁓ my gosh. That's crazy. That was awesome for that lady though. I don't, I don't remember her name right now, but like really cool. And I feel like it was underrated. Like we didn't hear a ton about it, you know, for what it was. I was like, come on, come on Derby world. Yeah. Geno Binda: Hit the turbo boost. Yes. What a moment. Mark Riley: Yeah Geno Binda: Mm. They'll be all over the today show and everything else. Yeah, that was awesome. I mean, the first what female trainer ever to win it like that's incredible. Like, you're right. Should get more publicity. Mark Riley: No, that was a serious comeback. Sam: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. all right, guys. Well, very cool. Thank you so much for having me. Geno Binda: Very good All right. Well, we got to let a we Before you go don't don't just jump. We got to make sure this is recorded and saved ⁓ Josh got to do his magic. But yeah, thank you very much for jumping on Mark Riley: Thanks, Sam. We appreciate you coming on with Ebers. Sam: Okay. Mark Riley: Yeah. Only. Yeah. Sam: Awesome.