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Ted Carty | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #78 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  But are you subscribed? If not make sure to like, share
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  and subscribe, spread the word about the Christian Reef podcast
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  and enjoy this episode. Hello and welcome to another
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  episode of the Christian Reef podcast.
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  Today's guest is a professional musician, hailing all the way
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  from Ottawa Canada. His name is Ted, carty welcome
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  to the show, Ted, how you did I'm doing very well.
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  Thank you very much for having me.
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  Oh no, thank you. Thank you for agreeing to do it.
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  It's a bit of background. I found Ted on Reddit and
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  sometimes you know as you guys know you listeners you listeners
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  my listeners. That's a bit more polite as a
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  lot of my listeners. We'll know that I often find my
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  guests through, read it through various subreddit such as
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  podcast, guest exchange and stuff like that.
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  So if you are a new podcaster, definitely go check those places
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  out. But anyway, I came across Ted in
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  just one of these random music groups and I'm a musician
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  myself, sometimes I post and some of these groups and every
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  now and again, you know, I see a lot of musicians in these groups
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  and stuff and, you know, a lot of them are pretty good but like
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  every now and again, you come across what I would term as Like
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  a little mini gold mine and that was how it was for me.
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  When I found your music sighs, I'll go check this guy out and
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  then I was like, are you on Spotify?
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  And you were, and yeah, I was just blown away by the music.
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  So let's let's dive straight into that.
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  So it's a three people is yes. A three-piece acoustic.
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  Band called cold City, Kings. Tell us how this band came to be
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  and describe your band sound. Well, it's to the first part of
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  it how it came to be. I'm I'm you know, coming up on a
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  cool Century of half-century of Life at some point here in the
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  near future years and I've been through bands and I was in a
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  band for a long time and I sort of I left that and I left that
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  world mostly primarily because I had a family and that the bands
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  would have continued on without me and I was happy to see it.
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  Go. I wasn't really big into the
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  whole, you know, playing the two in the morning to some in some
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  Town, some Far Away with some guy with weird hat, you know,
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  like it was fun for a while, but it gets pretty old Canada.
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  I don't know if you've ever been you ever been here before you
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  ever play here? No, I would love to.
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  It's really big. So that's one thing you got to
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  remember like their cities but there's a fair amount of
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  distance between them. So you're if you want to do five
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  gigs in five cities, you're going to travel about about
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  fifteen hundred to maybe 2,500 kilometers to do that.
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  I feel like it was kind of the same know when you start out as
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  a musician because you write then you laid out right there
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  like yeah sometimes you know it's us just playing to a couple
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  of people one person. Like I had that many times.
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  I think in my first major band I was in for the longest time for
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  about three years. A lot of the shows we were often
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  just plain to the other bands that were on the show and it
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  sometimes is hilarious like looking back that my final show,
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  with that particular band, we literally played to just, it
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  was, it was rough, man, because we knew we were about to break
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  up. This was our final gig.
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  We'd have like a mini argument before you were going on stage.
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  We went and played, and literally there was my
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  ex-girlfriend and the sound engineer and that was it.
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  Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I've been there.
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  He did. You do to me like every musician
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  has been there, and it's kind of nuts when you think about it,
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  because you can't let that dishearten.
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  You, you know, I've told this story before, but I remember
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  seeing a video online of I think it was Rage Against the Machine
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  their first show together as a band and they were playing some
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  college somewhere. They're playing like it's
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  something, you know, Arena Style music and people who there are
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  people watching, but mostly it's people going by and just passing
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  by, and I'm like, this is not Nuts.
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  But that's how it is. But you know what?
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  I'm and I was in a band that wasn't.
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  I mean, who definitely wasn't Rage Against the Machine, but
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  the band I was in before was definitely a band that was, it
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  was sort of like, you know, the vibe of the music was intended
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  to be really like, short and up. Sorry, I'm getting.
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  I'm being interrupted by Jean paree, by Justin Trudeau.
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  Here are with me. That's Justin Trudeau.
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  I don't need to hear your garbage right now.
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  I love you buddy but it's all tell me what much the Prime
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  Minister just interrupts you and your do.
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  It just says sorry, I apologize that.
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  Okay teacher will get back to you in a sec so yeah and then
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  and then, you know, you try to figure out the Dynamics of
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  trying to build a crowd and then trying to maintain a crowd and a
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  writing for that. And I was in a band that was a
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  lot like that and you have to perform as a unit.
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  You have to think as a unit It's like a marriage and but it's
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  multiple people and it's really people that kind of really only
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  have your best times with playing music.
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  So there's a lot of other stuff like if you were going to try
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  to, you know, share bank accounts at these people are get
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  into debt with them or try to make sure you work on something
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  all the time. Like it's really hard to keep
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  Pace with that. My I was in, I was lucky was in
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  a good band, but I just also, you know, into life and that
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  type of thing. So I pulled back on it and then
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  I spent the next couple of years, sort of going back and
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  Just into a into sort of the musical styles that I've
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  personally might my sort of genre that I've always loved and
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  I guess the best way you would describe it.
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  And if you were going to sort of describe the cold City Kings
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  things, I mean the broader term would be Americana, I think
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  would be the broader term because I mean, some of the,
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  some of the influences for me as a songwriter have been, you
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  know, Hank Liam's, you know, the, the Simplicity of something
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  that could be played very elegantly and and just sort of
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  leave, leave your mark. John Prine is, is probably, you
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  know, is and will always be for me like might greatest, you
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  know, songwriter but at the same time, like I've always been just
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  completely obsessed with the Beatles and the history and the
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  post beetles and the the the variations of it and The
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  uniqueness of where they ended up after where they started, you
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  know, it's quite a saga. It's almost like a Tolkien
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  story, right? It just never sort of plays out,
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  but the songwriting in that I've always sort of try to figure out
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  like, How to not figure out the code, but just how to learn from
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  it. Like, this is synchronous of it
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  or the subject matter and how a subject matter is told or the,
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  the, the, the the relationships between tension and release and
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  space and sound and the sound of words, you know, like that for
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  me just became an obsession and I was more or less alone in it.
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  And I I was I was asked one night to come in.
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  Host, an open mic. That was a friend of mine who
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  had the time who was in the band I was in before but also sort of
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  left it and he had kids as well to he was doing this open mic
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  and I went in and sort of subbed for him hosting it and this guy
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  came in and he looked like I remember when he walked in.
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  I remembers I can't look like Ryan Gosling sort of like could
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  you little shorter? But I don't know how tall Ryan
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  Gosling is because I've never stood to him.
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  But just like, yeah, this sort of stature and he pulls out this
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  forget what he was. Playing.
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  I think it was a great tour, something and a loop pedal.
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  And I introduce some and he gets up and he starts playing this,
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  this version of Ain't necessarily.
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  So do you know the song by? So this is this is it.
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  This is a classic song. It's been covered by Louis
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  Armstrong, I'm pretty sure. Ella Fitzgerald did a version of
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  it. It goes back to that sort of,
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  we'll call it the sort of Tin Pan Alley era of songwriting
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  where it's, you know, You know, in the, you know, in this sort
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  of songs that became popular amongst musicians and became
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  standards is, this really is this kind of like 1930s 1940s
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  music because it is, it is it kind of carries all the way in
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  through the 50s and it sort of it influences, everybody in the
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  60s, everybody in the CFCs. That's, that's bringing it back
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  and neither country, you know, you see it in the Eagles, you
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  see it in the, if you look at the sort of alt-country the
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  grandpa, Parsons of the world, but then you see it again.
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  You see it in Zeppelin like Zeppelin's repurpose of all of
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  Muddy Waters stuff. All of the Robert Johnson stuff.
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  So there's a that's where that Basin sort of generates itself
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  and it has the sort of troubadour story of traveling
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  musicians. But it also has the music that
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  these performers were like they were, they were forced by their
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  environment of survival to be as unique and as powerful as
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  possible. Like the story of how they came
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  about these musicians, to be able to make a record and play a
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  song like they were literally the real deal.
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  So these songs for me, like when I heard it and I was just a fan
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  that he liked it like nobody, I knew like this type of music and
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  we got together. His name is Connor, by the way,
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  Connor Fleming and then he brought in a friend and the
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  three of us just got together and we started writing and we
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  wrote a ton of music together and I never been in a situation
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  like that, where I would write a song, Connor would write.
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  The song kneeled write a song and they would all come from
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  different perspectives with different sort of musical.
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  Tastes and Connor, by my measure is one of the most brilliant
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  guitarists. And musicians that I've come
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  across, he writes some really great music but the three of us
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  came together and I think we tween the three of us.
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  We probably wrote about 50 songs so a couple of is so questions
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  to us. You just on that alone.
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  Firstly. I think I have an idea of what
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  it is but I'd rather just ask Directly what exactly is a
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  troubadour? Well, I think it's a French
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  term, but it was definitely say, I think it's a term primarily of
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  somebody who, who would be making their living playing
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  music. About the places they were
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  trying to make a living at. They were minstrels in some
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  capacity but they were storytellers.
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  So they would they would they would have a song that would
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  carry a song. A troubadour as a as a general
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  term, is somebody who is kind of a Jenna Maybe A bit of a bit of
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  somebody whose vision of the world expressed through music
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  isn't just in the mind of the person, their passenger on the
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  music, they, right? Because that makes sense, you
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  know, like if you look at like Dylan, you know, you look at Bob
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  Dylan, you know what? I don't know.
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  Bob Dylan but I definitely, you know, read and obsessed with the
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  man for long as I can remember. But you when you sort of came on
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  the scene like he was coming, In into Greenwich Village, kind of
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  the with this idea, or at least being or presenting that he was
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  kind of wanted to be what he got three, right?
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  That he wanted to be this traveling person who would read
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  the race. You know, you know, picked up
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  these songs from from train cars and and you know, there was a
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  story about that of about that music.
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  This is kind of more like a traveling Storyteller who uses
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  music as a medium as opposed to just the standard musician.
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  Yeah, and I think that it's a marriage of both the the this
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  type of song writing and then also the type of sort of concept
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  that it's meant to evoke, you know, to some degree because I
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  think, you know, Troubadours aren't DJ's.
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  They're not there to there. They may try to make you dance
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  but it'll in between it'll be in-between moments of sitting in
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  possibly weeping, right? It's and and it's something that
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  generally speaking. You kind of you.
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  It's A bit like it's a bit like an authorship.
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  I guess. Mmm, story from a musical
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  perspective, least that's what it is for me.
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  And the ones that I've always sort of been obsessed with, you
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  know, the you know, they kind of they either they either
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  presented their Cannon of music. As you know, they would they
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  would have Troubadour music in their their repertoire like
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  Johnny Cash For example. Hmm.
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  Johnny Cash was the Johnny Cash is a musician.
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  Any idea and I love Johnny Cash's well too but Johnny Cash
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  is also a story of a musician who sort of had a sound and a
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  way about him and went through so many different Evolutions in
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  his music career, all the Sun Records history and all of that,
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  you know, much about the history of Sun Records and the and the
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  little, I mean, I've seen obviously walk the line of kind
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  of, I am pretty obsessed with like just 40s, 50s 60s, music,
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  in general, you know, all your everything from Hank, Williams
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  to Elvis Johnny Cash like Motown.
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  You name it. I love all of that stuff.
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  So I have like a various understanding from what I
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  understand. Wasn't sun, rise, records.
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  All of those musicians. So like when they say, oh yeah,
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  it was just sort of one of those stories.
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  When you read about it, you're like, wow, what a, what a crazy
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  situation that was. So.
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  So, I mean the architecture of radio back, then really was sort
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  of, you know, you had a tower and and and and and you would
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  broadcast on that Tower. But if you own that Tower, you
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  were typically recording music in and around that studio Tower
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  as well too. So, You know, that's that, that,
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  that sort of what spread radio around.
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  So, it wasn't that hard, I mean, that was easy but you had these
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  different places and one of them in Memphis Tennessee, sun, rise
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  records has the history of literally, the like three people
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  off the top of my head. I know walked through the door,
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  was Elvis Presley Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison.
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  So, think about a place that just sort of accidentally brings
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  in these three people in one form or another in this.
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  Is Street in Memphis Tennessee. So there's something about that
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  but I guess to my point not to get too far deep in it but with
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  Johnny Cash I always thought because he became a recording
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  star and he Trent he had to transcend through different
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  records and he had very good. He had a very genuine way of
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  sort of expressing the music. He loved and making it his own
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  that he himself. As a writer has a certain way of
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  writing and I think he became a better writer as he got older
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  and his life. But for the first few years, the
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  songs that he would be playing. You know whether he'd be playing
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  A country ballad or you playing gospel Ballot or something.
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  He would, he would have the Troubadour songbook, they are,
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  but he himself probably really wasn't.
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  It's know, it's interesting. And I am going to just State the
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  obvious here. But like, you know, when I saw
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  when I started songwriting, who probably a very young age,
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  eleven twelve years, I mean, I think everyone when they become
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  a musician for the first time, they just naturally, start
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  writing their own songs. Obviously, they won't
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  necessarily be any good. Good.
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  But, you know, and like I probably started actually
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  properly writing songs in my first bands, when I was like,
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  17, 18 and I stop and buy some of the stuff I think it's okay,
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  but I think that it wasn't until I took a big break from music.
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  You know, I went and got a degree I went and did a bunch of
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  stuff in my life move to another country.
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  And then I went through some very hard times and you know,
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  music never stopped being a part of my life but I kind of Put
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  creative to the side as I guess that's just not for me and it's
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  funny how life works. It brings you back to the things
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  you love and so now I'm writing again and I started writing
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  again suppose in 2019 and I mean I tried to be objective about my
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  own work but I feel like it's the best stuff I've ever
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  written. And the reason for that is that
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  I actually have stuff to right about now you know hmm
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  relationship. Is people your friends dying
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  hard times like and I feel like bringing it back to what we were
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  just talking about with those musicians, like Johnny Cash and
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  stuff, like that's arguably. What was so great about him?
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  Was that, you know, the music was real, you could relate to
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  it, you could you could feel the pain and anguish the sorrow, The
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  Joy. Yeah, in that music.
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  And that's what I aspire to do with my music as well.
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  Like, I feel like, you know, especially in these In this day
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  and age as well. You know, there's so much music
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  out there and you don't have to be the world's best songwriter
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  group. Write a good tune.
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  I mean, a lot of time music you know as long as it's catchy
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  people will like it. But the songs that always get
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  remembered, I thought of those ones that go that step further
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  and try to capture like a feeling a human feeling in
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  ammonia and just yeah you know crying and I think that, you
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  know, if you're at a place right now where you're feeling like
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  Hey, I'm writing the best stuff. There's probably you're writing
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  a lot of stuff for writing more often or your mind is on writing
• 17:32
  more often. And one of the things that, you
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  know, when I said, when I started off, you know, how you
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  said earlier? You said, you know, I think
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  musicians all get into writing their own songs.
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  I didn't, I mean, I was really afraid to do it because I didn't
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  like because, you know what, I couldn't the only thing that
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  kept echoing in my mind is that back line.
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  You can't write if you can't relate and, and And and you
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  know, I found myself trying and I was good in my old band, I was
• 18:00
  good for a line or I was good for a hook and I was pretty good
• 18:04
  at a verse or maybe a chorus, but I couldn't bring a good song
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  across the Finish Line. At least one, I would be happy
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  with and I avoided it. Like it's, it was sort of, like,
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  kind of avoiding exercise for so long and then, you know, once
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  you start it back up but I'd always pursued.
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  Add the interest in it. And I had, I had some insight
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  one year in my old band, and there's a thing in Canada that
• 18:35
  they put a house, they still do it.
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  It was called Canadian Music Week and and, you know, I mean,
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  there's a lot of, you know, celebration of Indian music when
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  it means somebody's making something off of that hundred
• 18:47
  dollar pass or whatever it is right.
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  But I would side somebody needing a crowd very few people
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  give a shit. About it, other than the people
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  who love it and make it that far.
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  But you know what I mean, like festivals and all these types of
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  things, and I love them as well too, and don't get me wrong.
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  Like I played a few of them that I think are, like run by the
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  Swedish people, and they've got these great things.
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  But at some point, anyways, long story short, I got into a circle
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  of, I got into a workshop and the workshop, had some insight
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  from from two, very prolific songwriters, one of them, you
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  may know one of them, you may May not, it depends, you know,
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  if you're Canadian or not. So one of them you probably know
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  Gordon Lightfoot and have you ever heard of Gordon Lightfoot?
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  Not that there are some Canadian musicians, I know, but most
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  mostly, it's just a matter of what he's got for it for me at
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  this point. I found some musicians, I really
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  like from Canada, but mostly I don't go in life.
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  It became quite famous internationally.
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  I mean, if you Google and what you'll probably do is you'll
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  you'll probably find there's a number of songs.
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  You like, oh, Course, I know this guy.
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  It's just it's again, he's he's Gordon Lightfoot in Canada.
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  I mean he is, he is a, he's a very prolific songwriter, he's
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  made him. An incredible music and he's
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  influenced the time. He's a big, he's influenced.
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  He sort of came up in the 60s and 70s and the other.
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  The other songwriter to is it was the songwriter verb and who
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  really influenced the country and we all grew up on them.
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  The band called tragically hip and the lead, the frontman of
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  that band was A gentleman named gourd Downey, so you can imagine
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  like two Canadian guys named Court of course, right?
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  Like so and so they were having this conversation about
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  songwriting and they're both like The Tragically Hip by my
• 20:37
  from my account. If you're if you're a fan of
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  them, you you're a fan of them entirely not just because of
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  their sound. But then in the in the genius of
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  so many of their songs, I would put gourd Downey up, there is
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  probably one of the greatest lyricists that's ever written a
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  song because he can Write a song with with some words that you
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  will not understand the meaning of that song, even though you'll
• 20:59
  love it. You'll sing it in your head and
• 21:01
  sing in the shower, you will not understand the meaning of that
• 21:03
  song Until at some point in your life and you'll realize that
• 21:06
  this was set up for you, and it's a weird sequence and is he
• 21:10
  anyways, I won't go into it. But one of the things they said,
• 21:13
  was they said, you know, music is all about the right balance
• 21:21
  of contrast and tension, and release and space.
• 21:28
  That's what music is when we consider it.
• 21:30
  Theoretically, that's why certain that's why certain chord
• 21:34
  progressions. Work in a certain way because
• 21:38
  they have the right relationship of either call and answer or
• 21:44
  minor and major. There's a relay.
• 21:46
  There's a it's a It's like a ship that that's that balances
• 21:51
  itself on a certain perfect back and forth, right?
• 21:54
  We've got timing. And you know, they said, When we
• 22:00
  want to evoke sentimentality we don't write sentimentally.
• 22:09
  If the music evokes sentimentality, there's more
• 22:14
  space to write sentimental and what is writing sentimental
• 22:18
  writing, sentimentally in their definition in my, and my
• 22:22
  interpretation of what they said really means that you are trying
• 22:25
  to explain the emotion. You want felt as opposed to
• 22:32
  letting the listener Feel It by setting up.
• 22:37
  A circumstance that may that may evoke sentimentality.
• 22:41
  So storytelling does this very, very well we can set up a phrase
• 22:46
  in a story that implies something but doesn't say it and
• 22:51
  The Listener feels it. It's like you've thrown it to
• 22:55
  the listener and they've caught it when the listener fills that
• 22:58
  space with their own emotional interpretation, then what they
• 23:03
  do typically is they will They will start in a path of
• 23:08
  anticipating the next frame of music.
• 23:12
  And if at the end of that frame of Music, they have found an
• 23:15
  emotional relationship to the space.
• 23:19
  You've created. They will like that song and
• 23:23
  that song will have meaning to them.
• 23:25
  And so it's the implication. So so what's words in songs and
• 23:29
  that's what I took from it is that words and songs are kind of
• 23:33
  like road signs of where you want the person.
• 23:36
  To go as opposed to a map. All right.
• 23:40
  And there's a sickness in your ability to place.
• 23:44
  These road signs at the beginning, middle, or end of a
• 23:47
  song, or in a verse. So that the, The Listener or the
• 23:51
  person listening to your song, Becomes invested in the next
• 23:56
  part, they get satisfied and thus invested again.
• 24:00
  And and if at the end of that song and if they make it to the
• 24:03
  end of that song because some people will listen to a song
• 24:06
  because they like you they think you're nice.
• 24:09
  Some people will just listen to you because whatever they think
• 24:12
  you're curious but I think the people that listen to a song and
• 24:15
  be like, wow, that song meant something to me and happens to
• 24:18
  me all the time, right? I got lost in it, sort of.
• 24:21
  And so what does that mean? It's sort of like, I My
• 24:24
  imagination into this, it triggered something.
• 24:26
  And I was gone for three and a half minutes and you had me.
• 24:29
  And I want my pics again. I'm going to go back in here
• 24:31
  that again, or I'm going to be like what was that line or a
• 24:34
  little now live rent-free in my head is that is where I'm trying
• 24:38
  to figure out as a writer. How best to not architect, my
• 24:43
  songs to do that but consider that when I'm trying to write a
• 24:46
  song and see what happens, but I'm always in a process of
• 24:49
  trying to get better. I think I know where you go.
• 24:52
  You're coming from. Um, I mean, if I've understood
• 24:55
  correctly, it sounds kind of like my approach to songwriting
• 24:58
  as well because mod, my current form of songwriting right now,
• 25:03
  comes from how I write poetry. So, like years ago, I started
• 25:07
  writing poetry, it will work again when I was a teenager, but
• 25:11
  it kind of happened by accident. Like I'd, right?
• 25:14
  See ya. And I'd be like, well, this
• 25:16
  isn't really a song. I guess this is a poem.
• 25:19
  And then I kind of delve into that world a bit, no expert by
• 25:23
  any means. I just put stuff out there and
• 25:25
  for me I don't think too much about like it needs to be like
• 25:30
  this and used to be like that. I just kind of write how I feel
• 25:32
  and try and to your point like put forward an idea a story, you
• 25:40
  know, I try and leave it open to interpretation on my first
• 25:43
  poetry book was called open to interpretation.
• 25:45
  And yeah, maybe it's a bit cringed and silly.
• 25:47
  But the idea was that like, I want all of my work to be like
• 25:51
  that, and then I started applying that logic to solve.
• 25:53
  Song writing and thinking, you know what?
• 25:56
  Okay, it's fine if sometimes it's really obvious.
• 25:58
  But what if? Like sometimes it's not what if
• 26:01
  you know, you can get several things from this.
• 26:03
  Like yeah, one of the themes that I have a lot of the time in
• 26:06
  my songs, because I have a tendency to write sad songs.
• 26:10
  I don't plan it, I love writing sad songs.
• 26:12
  It's my favorite type of yeah, me too me too.
• 26:14
  And the irony is that I've actually started writing happier
• 26:17
  songs recently. But when I write sad songs, I
• 26:21
  always try to do the same thing of like, You pose a sadness, a
• 26:26
  sorrowful situation, or question, or something like
• 26:31
  that. And then I try to kind of build
• 26:33
  through the song as though it's a person trying to overcome this
• 26:38
  thing and get to like. Yeah.
• 26:40
  Yeah you know Point Hope a point of, you know reference, I don't
• 26:46
  know. I think I think there is like,
• 26:49
  I'm a fan of a lot of songs like that that sort of try to take
• 26:52
  you. They know they're taking you On
• 26:53
  a journey, right? You're going to go somewhere and
• 26:56
  we're going to start with this with this, this form and this
• 27:01
  this musical phrase or whatever. We're going to put forward that
• 27:04
  kind of gives you this idea. All right, and then there are
• 27:08
  some songs that are sort of like let's turn that on its head.
• 27:11
  You know? I I'm not like I'm very creative
• 27:15
  and I'm very like I try that the best songs I've ever written
• 27:18
  come from a really, really deep emotional place, right?
• 27:21
  And and, and when I play songs for people, This is.
• 27:24
  Wow. Okay.
• 27:24
  That sounds pretty good. But the one you play that song
• 27:27
  was really good and I'm like, well, I know, you know, with one
• 27:30
  song you kind of like, while I spend a lot of time on that.
• 27:33
  Well, that one just came from the right place.
• 27:35
  Like I had a really deep moment where the songwriting was really
• 27:38
  cathartic at some level. But, you know, I am always
• 27:42
  trying to catalogue the different archetypes and forms
• 27:47
  of songwriting. And if I get your side of it,
• 27:51
  right? Like your Yes, here is to sort
• 27:55
  of, we have a premise, we have an idea of something, and we're
• 27:59
  going to articulate that premise.
• 28:00
  But we're you want that? Do you want that same premise
• 28:04
  reiterated by the end of that song?
• 28:06
  Or do you want that person to have more of a catharsis at the
• 28:10
  end of that song where they feel a little bit more?
• 28:13
  Like, you know, you've taken them on a journey and some songs
• 28:17
  do that and some songs don't write some songs.
• 28:20
  Just surprise you and the surprise Is enough for you to be
• 28:24
  like, hey, I like that some song shock, you and some songs just
• 28:29
  sort of like, have a beat or a Melody that you just cannot deny
• 28:34
  and you could literally write almost anything on top of that
• 28:38
  and it's still going to connect with people and and that's what
• 28:42
  always amazes me about it. Like, I'm always trying
• 28:45
  different techniques of songwriting but I'm also trying
• 28:49
  to as I absorb more and more songs and I listen to me, And
• 28:53
  more stuff. I write more and more music.
• 28:55
  I'm finding myself. Just always on this sort of,
• 28:58
  kind of this trajectory to try to be as succinct as I can with
• 29:04
  and try to be as less. Less sort of worried about
• 29:12
  whether or not the idea I have for that song is a good idea or
• 29:16
  a bad idea and Mork more concerned about is the idea I
• 29:20
  have for this song connecting so it's almost like you can have
• 29:24
  it. If you can have a bat, not a bad
• 29:26
  idea of you going to kind of like, hey, I have this idea for
• 29:28
  the song and it's sort of like the way you feel when somebody
• 29:30
  leaves you and that type of stuff, and that's great.
• 29:32
  I mean, that that's that feed. So many songs in the world
• 29:36
  heartbreak is like the number One reason for most songwriting
• 29:39
  attempts in the first place, right?
• 29:40
  But at some point you're kind of like okay how I formulate that
• 29:46
  idea in a song is that is the challenge if you will.
• 29:50
  And you know you'll never really know because you got to taste it
• 29:54
  yourself, but it doesn't taste the same to everybody else.
• 29:57
  That's the tricky part about songwriting.
• 30:00
  It was might taste good to you. Doesn't take someone else.
• 30:03
  Yeah, I know. I agree.
• 30:04
  I agree. And that's part of the reason
• 30:06
  why I want mine to be as open. As possible because I want the
• 30:09
  listener to kind of take their own sort of thing from it, but
• 30:13
  this kind of reminds me of Metallica's.
• 30:16
  Drummer Lars Ulrich like one time.
• 30:18
  I remember someone asked him about his drummer, his drumming.
• 30:21
  Sorry. And there's a lot of you know,
• 30:24
  is mixed feelings about some people feel like he's two basic
• 30:27
  or you know, he's crap Jam or whatever I think that's
• 30:29
  nonsense. But one thing that he did say
• 30:31
  that stood out to me, was he said that he always plays to the
• 30:37
  song Long as in like his mindset is not okay.
• 30:41
  I need to put like loads of drum solos here.
• 30:44
  Drum, you know, feels Bubba but it's like what works for the
• 30:48
  song? And I feel like lately.
• 30:49
  Yeah, that's the always, the most important thing, it's like,
• 30:52
  does this feel right? Like, sometimes, like these days
• 30:55
  when I write a song? Yeah, a lot of the time.
• 30:58
  And this is different from years ago, years ago, I would sit
• 31:00
  there for ages trying to write stuff and I get depressed
• 31:03
  because I feel like we could do it.
• 31:04
  This is rubbish and like genuinely I felt that way and
• 31:07
  These days, I'll just pick up the guitar and start jamming.
• 31:10
  And if I feel it, I'll write something.
• 31:13
  If I don't feel that sometimes all I could think of times some
• 31:16
  days even recently where I'll write a song and I'll be
• 31:21
  recording it and doing stuff and then I'm like, now I just know
• 31:24
  and then I'll come back to it. The next day we've completely
• 31:27
  different riff completely different vibe than like this,
• 31:29
  is it? Yeah, it smells funny.
• 31:31
  I when I, when live music was the thing, I was also pretty I
• 31:38
  brought a lot of like, what called City Kings was getting
• 31:40
  together and we were rehearsing and playing.
• 31:43
  We played a number of gigs, but we didn't really, like, we
• 31:45
  weren't getting into the big, let's promote ourselves, like,
• 31:48
  you can't get out there as a band and be ready to Gig a lot.
• 31:51
  Unless you're ready to promote yourself and doesn't mean you
• 31:54
  shouldn't be making music, it just means that, you know, maybe
• 31:57
  you're gonna, you're gonna limit where you going to play, but I
• 31:59
  was out there quite a bit and I would take this path where I
• 32:01
  could like write this song and I'd bring it to the, to the, to
• 32:05
  the group and we Collectively say okay, that's a cold City
• 32:09
  King song or a song that's like definitely will record it as a
• 32:12
  group or people like okay, that's a bit more of like we'll
• 32:16
  call it. Like the Troubadour e type of
• 32:18
  stuff, not that we weren't not that we're not going to do that
• 32:21
  type of stuff. But we are it was just we kind
• 32:24
  of had a Vibe going at the time and it produced a lot of really
• 32:27
  good songs. The album that you heard is
• 32:30
  essentially the what I would say our final versions of
• 32:36
  essentially, the The first the best of the first say?
• 32:42
  Twelve songs that we've written at the beginning.
• 32:45
  Yes. So this is your first releases
• 32:47
  of bands and a trans our band. Yeah.
• 32:49
  Yeah. A track album called a letter
• 32:51
  from home. So I correct letter from home?
• 32:54
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:56
  And the single on that or what? You know, the the when we, when
• 33:01
  we finally put all these songs together and we produce this
• 33:04
  ourselves and I'll give Connor Fleming just such an incredible
• 33:08
  credit because he led the production he built this.
• 33:11
  Rudimentary studio in his apartment and such a fun cycle
• 33:18
  to because when we started working on this together and
• 33:21
  writing these songs, we thought about okay, well let's go out
• 33:26
  and go get these done in a studio somewhere.
• 33:28
  And you know, Connor was just so meticulously visioned on how he
• 33:33
  wanted these songs to sound and he was like I can do it and you
• 33:37
  know he's an educated musician. He's studied jazz guitar.
• 33:41
  Jazz guitar theory for a long time and playing with him has
• 33:44
  been the best musical education I've had.
• 33:47
  And for me, you know, for me in the writing process to, I had to
• 33:52
  also find my recording voice properly over the last couple of
• 33:56
  years, which is a really interesting process sometimes,
• 33:59
  because when you cut yourself live and you're playing live all
• 34:01
  the time, sometimes you don't always know really what, where
• 34:05
  you're recording sound. Should be neither weird
• 34:09
  experience. Yeah, I just did.
• 34:11
  Current. Yeah.
• 34:12
  And so it took me a while to find mine and then we finally
• 34:15
  got it ready and we got it out the door and so holiday is the
• 34:19
  number one track on that. And that's the one that I think
• 34:21
  resonates the most with people it's a great little song that
• 34:23
  was written by Connor. It's a brilliant song.
• 34:28
  It took me a while to sing it properly.
• 34:30
  I also do the backing vocals on everything as well to while I'm
• 34:34
  layering it. So I get a lot of Melody
• 34:37
  interpretation from the guys too but You know, you know some of
• 34:43
  the other songs on there like little town is one of the ones I
• 34:46
  wrote which is a bit more Bala tea and a bit more.
• 34:50
  You know again with the attempt of evoking sentimentality as
• 34:55
  opposed to writing sentimental but that was also another sort
• 34:58
  of very sort of you know emotionally generated song.
• 35:03
  We old our basis, wrote Arrow true which is on the album as
• 35:08
  well to which is a great song and he's a great writer as well.
• 35:11
  R2 and we've got a number of stones or hit of his that he's
• 35:13
  written that are in the cannon, ready to go.
• 35:16
  But he writes songs that are very They're very poetic but
• 35:22
  they're also very could be very jarring.
• 35:24
  Like they can have a very jarring message.
• 35:26
  I would almost sort of like you know you know before I go on
• 35:31
  like who are your favorites like who will kind of songwriters who
• 35:33
  are you like obsessed with haha. Wow.
• 35:38
  So many, I mean, just of okay, like I listen to like all types
• 35:43
  of music. So yeah it's difficult for me to
• 35:45
  judge but just off the top of my head you know, like Bowie.
• 35:49
  Mac DeMarco. Yeah, Dallas Green.
• 35:55
  Do you like Dallas? Say your big pile of it?
• 35:57
  Laughs talisker. I think he's an amazing
• 35:59
  songwriter. I think when I get a great guy
• 36:01
  too. Yeah, I mean I just before he's
• 36:04
  cool. Yeah, it's funny, you know?
• 36:14
  Because like I thought they were a good band and I love them and
• 36:17
  everything but like when he started doing his acoustic, It's
• 36:19
  tough. I just felt like, yeah, this is
• 36:21
  what you should be doing this. This is like totally.
• 36:24
  I need ya and it's nothing against Alexisonfire, because I
• 36:27
  felt like his kind of his contribution to that band, just
• 36:35
  made them very distinctive. I can't think of many bands that
• 36:37
  we're doing that kind of vibe and that kind of contrast, you
• 36:42
  know, having like a really clean vocalist and then, and it, don't
• 36:45
  get me wrong. I know there's loads of good
• 36:47
  before I get destroyed. I know there's loads of metal.
• 36:49
  As metalcore bands that do. Yeah.
• 36:51
  But it's a different ball. Gets a totally different.
• 36:53
  It is, you know what I think. I loved another one that's or
• 37:21
  even if you like, even if you're a fan of like Billy Talent.
• 37:26
  Yeah, anytime. Yeah.
• 37:28
  So these are all, they all came out of the same scene, right
• 37:31
  more or less, right? So they had this sort of like
• 37:34
  driving guitar, Victor the kids in those shows were all in a
• 37:38
  pit. It was for that aggressive type
• 37:40
  of things and and they had this sort of like you had to have a
• 37:44
  hook, you got to have a bridge and then you had to be like in
• 37:49
  your face. Ice for two verses and that was
• 37:51
  like this this sort of way and they were they did it better
• 37:54
  than most most bands at the time.
• 37:55
  But I agree when he came on as a solo artist.
• 37:59
  I think he was one record in and he became part of like the Great
• 38:04
  Canadian Cannon like when your song that you release, all of a
• 38:08
  sudden is played by every Joe Henry, in a bar within six
• 38:12
  months like that, that thing in Canada, that doesn't happen that
• 38:17
  often. Yeah.
• 38:18
  You know, it's rare, you get Something in he like I you can't
• 38:21
  walked in a non covid-19, can't walk down the street.
• 38:24
  Sometimes in Canada without hearing somebody doing.
• 38:26
  I'm not a very good version because he's a hard guy to
• 38:30
  coffee because he's got such a voice, right?
• 38:32
  He sings it, such a weird register, right?
• 38:35
  If you don't sing, if you sing his songs and you don't put the
• 38:39
  same sort of Power Balance that he has into that, the songs
• 38:43
  don't come off as across. Like, he's a really, I've done
• 38:45
  some interesting stuff of his and I know it's you, I mean it's
• 38:50
  that you got to get the balance between that kind of soft and
• 38:55
  Unlike ballad. He's I don't know how to put it,
• 38:58
  like, I know what you mean. You got to push yourself at the
• 38:59
  right point and dial it back at other point.
• 39:02
  Yeah. Because he gets some great line.
• 39:04
  He's a good songwriter and he's got some, he's got some great
• 39:06
  stuff and I always listen to everything he puts out and that
• 39:08
  type of thing, and but he's a good dude and he's I know he's
• 39:11
  a, you know, I know, he's a hard working musician as well to, I
• 39:14
  don't know what where they're all going to be like the working
• 39:17
  musicians are going to be post covid, but you also said Bowie,
• 39:21
  I, I'm nuts for Bowie. I've always been there.
• 39:24
  Especially now I don't know what it is.
• 39:26
  I think, you know, there was something about Just my twenties
• 39:31
  engine. I'm 27 at the moment but turned
• 39:33
  28 and do your young lad. Yeah, a lot of these years.
• 39:37
  My twenties has been very transformative and kind of, I
• 39:42
  feel like I've learned more now than ever ever learn.
• 39:45
  And I find myself kind of How can I put this?
• 39:55
  I find myself kind of questioning everything.
• 39:58
  A lot more these days, and sometimes I'll just sit there
• 40:03
  and I'll just listen to like recently.
• 40:06
  I've just been watching a lot of Bowie interviews, and just
• 40:09
  hearing him talk and hearing his philosophy on life.
• 40:12
  And, yeah, it just fascinates me.
• 40:15
  I think it's because there's certain musicians that like are
• 40:20
  ahead of At time. Like Jim Morrison is a good
• 40:22
  example, like you, listen to his work and it's like even his
• 40:26
  poetry. It I mean, he's so ahead of his
• 40:29
  time and and these musicians come like, once in a lifetime
• 40:33
  and yeah, I think that's what sets them apart.
• 40:36
  You know what I mean? Because there's a difference
• 40:38
  between a good musician, a star and then an icon and I know
• 40:43
  that's that's really going for, but I would consider Bowie to be
• 40:47
  that level, you know, he's absolutely and you know, Bowie I
• 40:51
  think one of the things about Bowie that resonates with people
• 40:55
  and I think this is what he's always put out there whether
• 40:58
  it's been in his music or whether it's in his personality
• 41:03
  or his Persona or his, you know, when you see him on interviews
• 41:08
  but we presents like it's an almost insufferable boldness. in
• 41:15
  front of every Questionable circumstances most people would
• 41:21
  not feel bold in, so I think that's why he speaks.
• 41:26
  So, highly to people who don't feel bold enough to be, who they
• 41:30
  are because he is Non-Stop about.
• 41:34
  He's never been apologetic. He's been nothing.
• 41:36
  But kind, you'll never hear of Bowie doing anything cruel.
• 41:41
  Hmm. He was never a womanizer from
• 41:44
  what I understand. He was never a homophobe.
• 41:46
  He was a, he was Never an isolationist.
• 41:49
  He was never a nationalist, he was never a bigot.
• 41:54
  He was always a champion of just being unstoppably who he is.
• 41:59
  And you know, what do you think about you?
• 42:01
  Look back on them. But we was a weird looking cat
• 42:05
  man. When you could just take a
• 42:07
  picture and growing up in post-war England and be in that
• 42:13
  kind of dude, and just trying to figure out your way, you know,
• 42:17
  it's sort of like the story of Little Richard and being like
• 42:19
  this gay black, you know, you know, I believe son of a
• 42:26
  sharecropper and the son of a slave who really just needs to
• 42:30
  find his expression and becomes the One of the biggest
• 42:33
  influential musicians Of All Times writing a song called
• 42:37
  tutti frutti. Oh, Rudy like, think about that
• 42:40
  level of just audacity. And I love that.
• 42:43
  Like I think that when you use that, when that's who you are
• 42:47
  and the music that's going to come out of you, that's where I
• 42:50
  think you see people wear their iconic like that, you know.
• 42:53
  I think Elton John's a lot like that.
• 42:55
  I think Lady Gaga's a lot like that.
• 42:57
  I think you saw that for many, many years come out of The Pride
• 43:03
  - and that's another thing. You see it in hip-hop as well to
• 43:06
  the pride - and the boldness of being whomever.
• 43:10
  You are, you know? Like it's just I feel like it's
• 43:15
  that bad foundation. And, but we always did that, and
• 43:18
  even his songs, if you look at all of the songs, they're all
• 43:21
  about this. They all even the longer more
• 43:26
  narrative sons and you break it down like Bowie songs in my mind
• 43:29
  when I listen to the bear like 10 songs.
• 43:31
  In each verse like each verse could be its own song and
• 43:35
  there's stories that he that he writes that a really epic and
• 43:39
  some of them he writes in reverse.
• 43:41
  And some of the he creates a theme and then he shatters the
• 43:47
  theme and and then he creates a brand new theme in the song and
• 43:50
  you don't notice it and you're you're singing a Along to this
• 43:54
  thing, you know, and you see him, he's also got songs.
• 43:57
  Like, think about a guy like that.
• 43:59
  Who has that many songs? That are that long?
• 44:02
  Okay. But we did not write short
• 44:04
  songs, he wrote songs and he pushed him like always songs
• 44:08
  like for they, you know, they say oh you got two, three and a
• 44:10
  half minute song If you're going to be a hit or whatever.
• 44:12
  It's like, no, here's, you know, life on Mars.
• 44:15
  I think it's almost think that the radio Cuts like five minutes
• 44:20
  and 25 seconds, Or any of that stuff, I think about, like, how
• 44:24
  we arrange stuff. I always sit there whenever I'm
• 44:26
  losing to a Bowie song and I sit back on it.
• 44:29
  And I'm like just think about the guy trying to cut this in
• 44:31
  the studio. And he's like, okay this is
• 44:32
  where the orchestra is going to kick in and we're going to have
• 44:35
  the orchestra go here. And then this is where the, the
• 44:38
  soul voices are going to kick in and this is where we're going to
• 44:42
  break, and this is where I like it just like it's Madness.
• 44:46
  And then you listen to it and you're like, that's epic, you
• 44:48
  know, you know what's interesting as well like,
• 44:51
  because since we're talking about I remember listening to
• 44:55
  his late 60s stuff when he was still figuring himself out.
• 44:59
  Like, you know, he went for a bunch of name, changes and stuff
• 45:02
  and yeah, eventually settled on Bowie and he put out Space
• 45:07
  Oddity, very early believe. 1969 was the first version of it.
• 45:12
  And if you listen to that little brown, right?
• 45:14
  David Brown, or what was his name before?
• 45:17
  Really? So what it was.
• 45:18
  But yeah, some it with basically, it was A name that
• 45:22
  was already taken by someone and then he went for Tom Jones,
• 45:26
  Jones and then what happened is he was like that for a while and
• 45:32
  then Tom Jones obviously became big and then he was like rawr
• 45:35
  and then he became David Bowie. And here's the thing, here's the
• 45:38
  thing about bowed, inspires me so much and particularly with my
• 45:41
  own songwriting as well. Is that like, if you listen to
• 45:44
  that first cup Space Oddity? It's okay, you know, it fits
• 45:48
  that kind of weird, kooky kind of like Vibe the 60s had
• 45:54
  particularly with, you know, everything that kind of out of
• 45:57
  this world space like atmospheric.
• 45:59
  Yeah, it does sort of start with that 60s reimagining because at
• 46:05
  that big, all the big space wars.
• 46:07
  That's the thing on like that. The first card is like it's not
• 46:12
  quite there yet. The song doesn't feel done and
• 46:17
  Bo. He's a genius.
• 46:19
  Yeah I can't sing his Praises enough because he redid this
• 46:22
  Song, early 70s, you know, Ziggy Stardust era and then the song
• 46:30
  was done, then it was complete because he and I imagine this I
• 46:34
  mean I don't know if he's ever confirmed yeah, like he
• 46:37
  reimagined it, he added the orchestra and everything else
• 46:41
  and it all kind of comes together and it's like, that's
• 46:46
  that was probably his vision for it in the beginning.
• 46:49
  But he hadn't. I don't think he'd really kind
• 46:51
  of Come into his own yet. He hadn't become Bowie yet.
• 46:55
  But when he put that out, Bowie was born.
• 47:00
  Yeah, definitely and I think I think sonically he did capture
• 47:03
  something because you like when you hear a lot of his early
• 47:08
  stuff like he's what I think what he's trying to do is is
• 47:14
  write a hit in his early stuff that doesn't make it to its,
• 47:19
  okay, its kind. He's trying to write a hook and
• 47:21
  he's also got a lot of like, he's got a, he's got this
• 47:25
  influence in the early stuff that I've heard of his like, I
• 47:27
  don't go. Full cannon on because I like I
• 47:30
  like most people, I start with the the spiders from Mars
• 47:35
  experience and build from there, but I also like like Bowie for
• 47:39
  me to like in the 80s as well to.
• 47:43
  I had a I grew up so I'm 46. I'm a lot older than you and
• 47:49
  Bowie kind of like, when I was a kid, he was like that dude in
• 47:55
  Labyrinth, right? I was trying to figure that guy.
• 47:58
  Yeah, but that's what I started to like them because I remember
• 48:01
  there was a song that he does in that movie and I watched it
• 48:04
  recently. And he, I think he writes all
• 48:06
  the music in that movie. Yeah.
• 48:08
  If you have ever, if you have ever do it.
• 48:09
  But but yeah and then I like but I think he was trying like most
• 48:13
  of them to like you even here in the Beatles as well to write.
• 48:17
  There's a there's an attempt to be something that you think you
• 48:20
  want to be right, like and then, and then they go right into
• 48:22
  their own and then the world just sort of like Defines them
• 48:27
  afterwards. Stop.
• 48:28
  You don't do that. You made about he was trying to
• 48:32
  write a hit. It's very interesting.
• 48:34
  You say that because before we started this podcast today, I
• 48:38
  was I was on Tick-Tock. I was just looking at things.
• 48:40
  And this clip of David Bowie came up and he was this probably
• 48:44
  would have been the 90s or something is just a standard
• 48:47
  interview. You did a lot of interviews in
• 48:48
  the 90s as yeah. I'm Pro everyone to go check out
• 48:51
  online on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, his interviews are
• 48:54
  fascinating. Not because of just learning
• 48:57
  about him but learning about what it means to be an artist
• 49:00
  and what successful now bring it back to what you said.
• 49:04
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:05
  And the beginning, I believe you.
• 49:06
  I think in those in the late 60s, early 70s, just before Segi
• 49:10
  starters, I feel like he just wasn't getting it quite yet.
• 49:13
  He just didn't figure it out. And then basically what he said
• 49:18
  in this interview, was that like, as an artist, you can't
• 49:22
  put stuff out to try and Is everyone to try and because it's
• 49:27
  you'll never win that war. It's you it's a thankless thick.
• 49:32
  So you've got it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 49:33
  Yeah, that's the thing. You got to put out your art your
• 49:36
  vision and I think once he just realized that's what I need to
• 49:40
  do whether it's people love it or hate it, I have to put out my
• 49:44
  vision and when he put that out it connected with people and it
• 49:49
  clicked and it was the right time and he just rolled with
• 49:52
  that ever since you know, one of my Favorite lines, i-i'm pretty
• 49:58
  sure it's Bob Dylan. So people will say, that's not
• 50:00
  Bob, Dylan somebody else. But the what was the line I read
• 50:02
  once or a while back that said, the only way to write great
• 50:08
  songs is to write the bad ones first.
• 50:12
  And and, and I really do think you start a process right
• 50:18
  yourself? You start a process yourself and
• 50:20
  I think I remember, I remember when I wrote my very first song
• 50:26
  that I was happy with enough to say, okay, I'm finished the song
• 50:30
  and I think it's good and I played for something and it
• 50:33
  wasn't a great song, it was too long and it had Huh?
• 50:40
  I didn't go to many places. It was kind of in a minor key
• 50:43
  and it was, you know, I kind of the idea I thought was a really
• 50:47
  good idea for the song. Just didn't click with people,
• 50:50
  but I was happy with it and I finished it.
• 50:54
  And then I say, I wrote a bunch of lights and this is when I
• 50:57
  started really writing my own stuff like and I've been doing
• 51:00
  this since I was a kid. Okay, so I've been doing this,
• 51:02
  is about 14, playing guitar, singing forming, do all that
• 51:05
  stuff. The stuff I didn't really finish
• 51:07
  the first song that I was happy with.
• 51:09
  Iowa's about thirty. Three.
• 51:17
  Maybe 34 years old and the reason was I had found anything
• 51:24
  in my life that I had. That I felt really just could
• 51:30
  could help pull a song out of me.
• 51:32
  Yeah. So so I so you kind of often
• 51:35
  sometimes I feel like some songs come out of your faster because,
• 51:39
  you know, as your brain is now, thinking about songs in your
• 51:42
  thinking about M and you're thinking the word The sound of
• 51:45
  words and you kind of got a melody in your head, your brain
• 51:49
  is open to more stuff, right? And then somebody walking down
• 51:52
  the street says something cool and you're like, there it is.
• 51:55
  So you're like ready to catch that thing that maybe you were
• 51:58
  waiting for or the thing that starts you.
• 52:01
  So you're it's like you're it's almost like you're likely to
• 52:03
  catch more rain in your pockets. If you're if you're walking out
• 52:09
  there with your hands up in the air, do you know what I mean?
• 52:11
  So you kind of have a bit more, you know.
• 52:15
  No. And that would be a good line
• 52:16
  for song, right? You know, if your hands are down
• 52:19
  by your side, your pockets lives are down, you're not going to
• 52:21
  catch any drops, right? So, that type of thing, you have
• 52:24
  to be present for it. But, but it doesn't come with
• 52:29
  the sensibility. You may want it to.
• 52:31
  I think it comes. I think if you stay practiced
• 52:34
  and ready and you just keep trying, then then you get out of
• 52:37
  it. I think, for a lot of people,
• 52:39
  you also have a really good voice.
• 52:41
  You sing. Well, you carry tone, well,
• 52:44
  like, you can also And you have an ear for your own voice and
• 52:49
  that itself is an instrument that you're going to tune in
• 52:53
  different ways. Over the years is you find more
• 52:55
  things meaningful to say and the more you you marry that
• 52:59
  relationship between something meaningful to say and something
• 53:02
  meaningful sounded out of you. You're going to find more.
• 53:06
  People are going to not only be like, hey that's a good song.
• 53:08
  People being like, hey that's that's a hell of a song.
• 53:13
  Like wow, it sounds Yes, it's a process and I remember when I
• 53:17
  was in my first metal band, the band broke up.
• 53:21
  I was about, let's just shy of 21 because 20, I went in a
• 53:29
  couple of other joined a couple of other metal bands.
• 53:31
  I was pretty lost to be honest, I didn't really know what to do
• 53:33
  because I wanted to keep what kind of metal.
• 53:34
  Sorry, kind of metal music where you play in like oh she's just
• 53:37
  give me a sense. They're metal to, I got nothing
• 53:40
  against metal. I've been at, I'm all in for it,
• 53:44
  man. Basically.
• 53:54
  Like I would always write the lyrics and a lot of the main
• 53:58
  Rhythm guitars but it was always like a jamming pretty like it
• 54:02
  was, you know, we would finish the songs as a band, you know,
• 54:05
  it was yeah. Like a band thing.
• 54:07
  So then when I started going solo in that year because I was
• 54:11
  kind of forced to, I couldn't really find any musicians to
• 54:13
  work with and I figured, I might as well give it a go.
• 54:16
  I was, you know, supposed to kind of do a cue stick.
• 54:19
  I was lost, you know, I put out an EP at that time.
• 54:22
  It was Not good for the intervening years.
• 54:27
  I worked with various people and now my own.
• 54:30
  And again, it's like what you said before, I just felt like it
• 54:33
  was bad bad, bad, bad. And every time I would pick up a
• 54:35
  Guitar, I would get like really disheartened.
• 54:38
  I'd listen to it and be like, this is rubbish.
• 54:40
  This is not good. I don't understand how, how was
• 54:43
  it? Excuse me, that I was able to
• 54:44
  write good songs before but not now and it goes back to what I
• 54:48
  said earlier about, you know, and what you said as well.
• 54:50
  Like you have to kind of go through stuff in life.
• 54:53
  Life and realize, certain things.
• 54:55
  And, and like you said, learn about your voice, learn about
• 54:59
  instrumentation, learn about all these different things.
• 55:02
  And I think the biggest the biggest thing for me that
• 55:04
  changed, And it was sound a bit out there and weird, but I'm
• 55:09
  kind of like that as a person I stopped thinking about it.
• 55:13
  I stop thinking I need to write a song.
• 55:16
  I need to like, try really hard and think about it.
• 55:19
  I just basically thought if an idea comes not just with music,
• 55:24
  anything for a poem for a sketch and acting piece you video for
• 55:29
  YouTube, whatever. Like if an idea comes, I'll work
• 55:33
  on it. Yeah, see where it goes and
• 55:35
  that's how Fill every time I pick up that guitar now
• 55:38
  sometimes it's just jam and something comes.
• 55:42
  Sometimes I have an idea a lyric a thought.
• 55:45
  Yeah. Something and you and you kind
• 55:47
  of just see where it goes and I feel like that every musician is
• 55:50
  different. Everyone has a different process
• 55:52
  but that for me is the process like yeah I don't really
• 55:55
  understand that idea that people get writer's block.
• 55:58
  Like I feel like that can only happen if nothing is going on in
• 56:02
  your life which means if that's the case you need to know, Like,
• 56:06
  go do something like any, you know, Goji.
• 56:10
  I think that's definitely absolutely.
• 56:12
  Like, you have to be present for when a moment comes.
• 56:16
  I remember watching an interview with, you know, another Great
• 56:20
  Canadian musician. Who I know you've heard of Neil
• 56:22
  Young, who is, who is, you know, written, you know, again, some
• 56:28
  of the best music that's ever been written and he takes people
• 56:31
  on Journeys that you may not like it.
• 56:34
  Like, you know, one of the things about a Neil Young Songs.
• 56:36
  Like some people like me or younger.
• 56:38
  Just like I love this song but I hate this song and I listen to
• 56:41
  it from the beginning to end and Neil Young knows that and when
• 56:44
  he writes that song and then there are some songs reaches
• 56:46
  like that Neil Young rights and you're like I can't breathe in
• 56:50
  the middle of the song. It's just too beautiful.
• 56:53
  It's weird. They get overplayed.
• 56:54
  That's the only reason. Well, you know, like yeah but I
• 56:58
  mean like, you know, when I look at things like when I look at
• 57:02
  his Cannon work but one thing he said to and I saw this pickle
• 57:05
  use like And so many of those songs have mind that are like
• 57:08
  the ones that everybody loves he goes, I can't tell you.
• 57:11
  I own that experience. I was part of it but I didn't
• 57:15
  own the experience and you never really do you have to be ready
• 57:18
  for the experience and the experience will deliver a song
• 57:23
  through you. But it's not something like it's
• 57:27
  not like Michael Jackson's Moonwalker that he can do,
• 57:30
  anytime he wants, it's something that you have to almost like I
• 57:34
  think you go through these things.
• 57:36
  Like okay, I'm going to write this song.
• 57:37
  I have this idea and it's in your working on it and you're
• 57:41
  getting there and it's probably going to be a good song, it
• 57:43
  might be a great song and then you're you're going to finish
• 57:47
  that and then maybe you'll put the music away or something.
• 57:51
  And then maybe you'll pick up your guitar.
• 57:52
  The next time to go and play that song that you are working
• 57:56
  on and you'll just start strumming around on something
• 58:00
  and a really good idea for her. Son's going to come right to you
• 58:03
  and it's not going to finish itself, but you're going to be
• 58:05
  like, ah, I'm actually going to work on this new idea instead of
• 58:08
  that old song. And and that process is like
• 58:11
  you, you didn't command the better song to come to you.
• 58:15
  You were there and you at least were disciplined enough to say,
• 58:17
  okay. I'm going to follow through and
• 58:19
  get it done, or I'm going to get it down or I'm going to try and
• 58:21
  take the idea to The Next Step. But I think that for me the most
• 58:26
  satisfying moments and when I do have one that's written and it
• 58:29
  does come out fairly quickly one thing.
• 58:31
  I also love about my band, it's my band is also really good.
• 58:36
  It giving me. Advice and thoughts on a song
• 58:41
  that will also resonate with me. And that's one of the things
• 58:45
  about music. I think sometimes people worry
• 58:47
  especially songwriters are like will everybody like this?
• 58:50
  Nobody will like that song everything that there's no song
• 58:52
  in the world that everybody likes.
• 58:54
  Yeah. You know, I mean, there are some
• 58:56
  songs that most people like, but but songs are not things.
• 58:59
  I think that that everybody likes songs have meaning.
• 59:04
  And, to everybody, it has a different meaning.
• 59:07
  And to some people, it has meaning because you loved it.
• 59:12
  When you were a kid, sometimes it has meaning to you because
• 59:14
  you really related to the lyrics of the song, Sometimes it has
• 59:18
  meaning to you because you just the song makes you feel happy,
• 59:22
  but it you have meeting with it. But the meaning is that
• 59:25
  ubiquitous it's not the same meaning for everybody and that
• 59:28
  you don't have any control only any songwriters control over
• 59:30
  that. That's just, that's a, you know.
• 59:33
  That's that's a bingo draw at best, right?
• 59:36
  So we'll see, but for me that's all I'm trying to do myself is
• 59:41
  to just try to get In my mind as good of a songwriter as I can be
• 59:47
  and keep Pace doing it. And you know try to have the
• 59:52
  right relationship with my creative life that's going to
• 59:56
  give me the best chance of not only writing a great song but
• 1:00:01
  also being part of that process where like it you don't own the
• 1:00:05
  experience. The song comes out of you.
• 1:00:08
  You own the song, It's Your Song.
• 1:00:10
  But you'll know for a fact you're like man I wish I could
• 1:00:12
  do that. A dozen times has been a father
• 1:00:17
  in a family, man. Like drastically changed.
• 1:00:23
  The way you write music how you know because obviously it
• 1:00:25
  changes your perspective in life and everything like that.
• 1:00:28
  And I just wonder sometimes if that has a profound effect on
• 1:00:31
  your music, you know, perhaps I don't really know.
• 1:00:35
  I mean having children has a proud of profound effect on you
• 1:00:41
  all levels. I think, I mean I can't speak
• 1:00:44
  for everybody but it has for me. But you know what, it's not
• 1:00:48
  like. It's not like there's a knock on
• 1:00:51
  the door, you open it up and there's a no profound effect and
• 1:00:53
  it hits you. Right.
• 1:00:54
  You don't realize it until you're like sort of like, well
• 1:00:57
  I've you know I've changed is that as a parent I think.
• 1:01:03
  I think I've wanted to create more of a legacy of good songs
• 1:01:09
  for my family and for my children.
• 1:01:11
  So when I think about writing a song and I think about recording
• 1:01:16
  a science, doesn't sound weird, but I think about my daughter's
• 1:01:19
  children or children's children listening to this song because
• 1:01:24
  you're creating something that lives in perpetuity, that's the
• 1:01:26
  fun thing about music and songwriting because it doesn't
• 1:01:29
  exist. It's weird thing.
• 1:01:30
  When you think about it, you can write it down.
• 1:01:31
  Those are the words and I have a recording which is a copy of
• 1:01:36
  somehow. It was played, where you have an
• 1:01:38
  instrument that plays the song or you can even say have a song
• 1:01:42
  sung, but it doesn't exist. It's not a tangible thing, you
• 1:01:46
  can hold. And and if you sing a song, it's
• 1:01:49
  like philosophy. You sing a song to a dog.
• 1:01:51
  It's the same vibrations. It's meaningless to the dog.
• 1:01:55
  It's only meaningful to our other human beings.
• 1:01:59
  Music doesn't have a relationship with the universe
• 1:02:01
  other than us, You know, we're the only ones who hear it.
• 1:02:05
  We're the only ones who build it.
• 1:02:06
  We're the only ones who know about it.
• 1:02:08
  I'm sure there's other I don't know if they're scientists are
• 1:02:10
  out there and saying, you know, there's a sense of Rhythm and
• 1:02:12
  Cadence and all of these different animals and types of
• 1:02:14
  things. But I get what you mean, we give
• 1:02:17
  it because music is Noise. Music is vibrations.
• 1:02:22
  It's a collection of things but it's just like lotions.
• 1:02:24
  Yeah. And we don't even know, like we
• 1:02:25
  see some mathematical relationship with those
• 1:02:27
  vibrations. Like, we can see that we can add
• 1:02:30
  it and subtracted and multiply it, we can harm.
• 1:02:33
  Eyes. And we can, we can harmonize as
• 1:02:36
  the opposite of Melody in our, in our musical phrasing so that
• 1:02:40
  we can create that relationship with it.
• 1:02:43
  And we have a mathematical situat, but but it's almost like
• 1:02:47
  it's I guess it's the same way you look at numbers, right?
• 1:02:50
  It doesn't make any sense to anything else out there other
• 1:02:52
  than us, right. That's just how we use it.
• 1:02:54
  But music is, I think is even more weird because at least
• 1:02:57
  using math, you can get a building.
• 1:02:59
  Everybody can see we we create music.
• 1:03:02
  We just get sound. And and sometimes we can layer
• 1:03:04
  that sound on TV or in a movie and you know, you can you can
• 1:03:08
  take your song and go to like, America's Got Talent, but that's
• 1:03:12
  not a music product. That's a television product
• 1:03:14
  music, plays a little role in it, but it's not music product.
• 1:03:19
  And when you hear Bowie, you know, it's interesting thing
• 1:03:21
  about this, when you hear Bowie or you hear Queen, You hear
• 1:03:25
  these artists whose whose Ark in their creative period.
• 1:03:30
  Also coincides with a really interesting technology Arc about
• 1:03:33
  how music gets play and it starts like it starts in the
• 1:03:38
  wall of sound Motown era where you're only hearing jukeboxes
• 1:03:45
  45's and AM radio. So the sound of the song has got
• 1:03:50
  to be really big that's where that's those specters.
• 1:03:54
  Wall of sound technique. But when you get into records
• 1:03:57
  and help ease and High Fidelity and and big stereo systems and
• 1:04:02
  then disco and clubs that are investing tons and sound systems
• 1:04:08
  because they were creating big sound out there and bow is going
• 1:04:12
  to fill that big sound queen or fill that big sound rush, you
• 1:04:16
  know, Zeppelin filled that big sound to you know and split
• 1:04:19
  their timings workout because the music that they're creating
• 1:04:23
  resonates on. Medium that they're either
• 1:04:26
  creating for they just happened to be that the time, right?
• 1:04:29
  And so now when you look at it and you consider how is music
• 1:04:33
  being consumed, well we can still consume it with our ears.
• 1:04:38
  We don't have a, we don't have a collective relationship with it
• 1:04:42
  anymore. We have a very individual
• 1:04:43
  relationship with it. It's my playlist.
• 1:04:47
  When I'm listening to on my headphones, it's what I'm
• 1:04:49
  thinking about in the car. It's what I'm using in my
• 1:04:52
  things, I'm not Gathering people together.
• 1:04:55
  It's not emanating from a jukebox.
• 1:04:57
  It's not trying to get me to dance unless it's music.
• 1:04:59
  I'm trying to use to work out or whatever it is, but I'm now
• 1:05:02
  having this one to one relationship and people like
• 1:05:04
  yourself who are like okay, I'm a creative but I'm also a
• 1:05:08
  creative and I have these media. Forms that I'm working with
• 1:05:14
  which is which isn't just creating something in pushing,
• 1:05:16
  its interacting with people, it's changing your art and
• 1:05:19
  changing your vision as you go and trying to change others,
• 1:05:22
  right? You become very you have a
• 1:05:27
  choice to become very symbiotic with a lot of the media that you
• 1:05:30
  are using to create from good and bad reasons, right?
• 1:05:34
  And that has an effect on on how that music then gets created and
• 1:05:39
  you know one thing I The other day.
• 1:05:42
  I don't know if it's true because everything you read is
• 1:05:45
  just data and you can figure out if it's truth ask.
• 1:05:48
  But you know, but you know is this idea that bans is a form of
• 1:05:52
  an art form is sort of falling off because well things like
• 1:05:55
  covid but production and songwriting and the whole cycle
• 1:05:59
  of getting a song from your head to the world is, can be done so
• 1:06:04
  much individually now or done so digitally that it almost doesn't
• 1:06:07
  warrant. And I don't necessarily agree
• 1:06:09
  with that because I think that I think music, I think music
• 1:06:13
  created in a silo. Is fine.
• 1:06:17
  But I think I think it's rare that that adding more people to
• 1:06:22
  the creation in the right dose. Doesn't make it better.
• 1:06:25
  Yeah. Like I could kind of say writing
• 1:06:30
  music on your own and writing with the band are two different
• 1:06:32
  experiences and I know, I know there's plenty of musicians out
• 1:06:36
  there in various different forms, some people do it
• 1:06:39
  somewhere in Partnerships song, Some do it as a whole band.
• 1:06:42
  You know, like I think that whole concept of abound is dead.
• 1:06:45
  I That's just nonsensical. I mean, you can say that the
• 1:06:49
  majority of musicians out there artists right now tend to be
• 1:06:54
  like, you know, solo acts. But look a lot of their music.
• 1:06:57
  If they're not writing at themselves is written, as you
• 1:07:00
  say, by a team of people, lots of different people, people come
• 1:07:02
  together, write the music and I got to say, like, when I was in
• 1:07:06
  bands, You can't compare the feeling of like working on a
• 1:07:14
  tune together as a band and they're feeling the rush you get
• 1:07:18
  when, you know, it's working because you Jammer Point.
• 1:07:21
  Yeah. And, and a lot of it just, it
• 1:07:24
  doesn't go anywhere. But then every now and again you
• 1:07:26
  just you feel it. Like, I remember the times in
• 1:07:29
  the first band I was in where we would just be jamming and it
• 1:07:34
  would be a transcending experience above the music.
• 1:07:38
  Because I, the drummer would know exactly what I want him to
• 1:07:41
  do. Yeah, it's really nice person
• 1:07:44
  and it's like, yeah, you run that higher level and I feel you
• 1:07:46
  can't really capture that in a Solo capacity is different, you
• 1:07:51
  know, I completely agree. It's a totally different
• 1:07:54
  process. And you know what?
• 1:07:55
  It's not as rewarding by any means because I think, I think,
• 1:08:00
  I think you nailed it there, where you're talking about this,
• 1:08:02
  it's the communication. And it's weird the communication
• 1:08:09
  when you're in the pocket with your band or whichever way you
• 1:08:11
  want to describe it. Whether it's live or rehearsal.
• 1:08:13
  When you're in that space, it's almost like the communication is
• 1:08:17
  not communication. It's, it's the music.
• 1:08:22
  The music is telling the other musicians, is there listening to
• 1:08:26
  you, but they're also playing properly.
• 1:08:29
  And right now, they're not thinking they're listening to
• 1:08:33
  you, and they're playing through themselves.
• 1:08:36
  And if if you ask them to start thinking right now one of those
• 1:08:41
  two things are going to suffer real quick and you know maybe
• 1:08:44
  the audience is not going to notice that the other musicians
• 1:08:46
  will. So it's almost like this sort of
• 1:08:49
  you know it's like a trust fall that happens that you do while
• 1:08:54
  you're playing and you know, when everybody's together and
• 1:08:57
  it. But but equally when someone is
• 1:09:00
  not part of it, it's very easy to see.
• 1:09:02
  It's like when you've got that chemistry together, like
• 1:09:05
  particularly playing live. Can think of times when we would
• 1:09:08
  be playing and, you know, you make a mistake and you can cover
• 1:09:12
  up or whatever, but like he's a really good example.
• 1:09:14
  Sometimes, you know, you're waiting on the drummer to end
• 1:09:17
  the song, right? And you're let's say you're
• 1:09:19
  playing the guitar and you're getting to that for Dan dude,
• 1:09:23
  and he keeps going and you're like well, we're waiting at and
• 1:09:27
  then it's okay. You just roll with it.
• 1:09:29
  You don't panic. Yeah, because you trust over and
• 1:09:32
  like you said, you got that connection, you're you're not
• 1:09:34
  sitting there. I mean, you might be Going a
• 1:09:36
  little bit like damn man. I hope he ends it soon but like
• 1:09:38
  you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it just like a
• 1:09:41
  roll with it. Maybe this will lead somewhere
• 1:09:43
  and often it does and it's, it's trust its chemistry and it's
• 1:09:47
  very satisfying when you take a band and you play a whole series
• 1:09:50
  of kids give your daughter the road, and you get to that place.
• 1:09:53
  Yes. Because you can play your parts
• 1:09:54
  properly, you can do all your parts and do a great first
• 1:09:57
  second, third rehearsal, but when you're so many shows in and
• 1:10:01
  you're going from place to place, and you're running on no
• 1:10:04
  sleep and everything, You know, you know, and the drummer's in
• 1:10:08
  charge in the right way. I love it.
• 1:10:10
  When a drummer takes charge, it's one of my favorite things
• 1:10:13
  of all times. It's like, it's like, you know,
• 1:10:16
  so much is easier as a musician when, when the drummer is in
• 1:10:21
  charge of what's Happening as far as we just, did it so much
• 1:10:26
  better together. Yeah, you're everyone else is
• 1:10:32
  along for the ride like that's just yeah, it is.
• 1:10:36
  Almost. Look at it, it's like a
• 1:10:37
  limousine, right? And there's the ceiling and you
• 1:10:39
  get to pop out and wave your hands every now and then, but
• 1:10:42
  the basis is at the back Drive, the drummer's up at the front
• 1:10:47
  and they're going to take you to where you got to go.
• 1:10:48
  You get the thing as well. When you see a band, that's not
• 1:10:52
  ready to play Live. Or like there's, there's not
• 1:10:55
  proper Synergy in the band and it's the drum or the basis
• 1:10:58
  level. Everything falls apart like big
• 1:11:02
  time because like if the drums and the bass solid.
• 1:11:05
  Yeah. I don't know, there's a mistake
• 1:11:06
  in the guitars of the vocalist messes up like the rest of the
• 1:11:09
  bank and recover it. But it's normally the absolutely
• 1:11:13
  I would take like in the in the, in the world of like what could
• 1:11:17
  go wrong. Forgetting a lying singing
• 1:11:21
  off-key playing the wrong note or falling off time.
• 1:11:26
  Timing is everything. Almost everything is almost
• 1:11:30
  forgivable forgivable ones if timing is maintained.
• 1:11:34
  Yes. So you know, and that's just the
• 1:11:36
  best and that's a live music principle but that's that's it.
• 1:11:39
  That's what's going to keep this music.
• 1:11:41
  That's what you know, we said we talk about the song that some of
• 1:11:43
  these going to invest in nobody invests in anything that's out
• 1:11:47
  of time. It's just too annoying.
• 1:11:49
  And if it's not even like it's just your because there's no
• 1:11:52
  hiding it you're either in time or you're not so so having that
• 1:11:57
  that that integral. But that's also funny.
• 1:11:59
  We have a saying in Canada the drummers are like the goalies of
• 1:12:03
  Music which is a joke about how challenging it is to get a
• 1:12:08
  goalie together when you want to play.
• 1:12:09
  Hockey is goalies, have a lot of gear, they have a lot of pads,
• 1:12:13
  you know, for every team, think about for every five, like, you
• 1:12:17
  know, for every for every person plan on the ice, it's there's
• 1:12:19
  only two goalies, right? So, so having the right drummer
• 1:12:23
  and and having the drummer with the right capability to play
• 1:12:26
  with you and do that, you hold them pretty sacred, right?
• 1:12:30
  Sure. But I, we didn't in our band, we
• 1:12:32
  have no drummer. It's Connor, it's Connor, being
• 1:12:35
  and Connors actually quite a very good drummer, but he
• 1:12:39
  doesn't use a drum kit. He's literally pounding out,
• 1:12:43
  percussion with different authentic percussion devices,
• 1:12:46
  you know, from shakers, and maracas and Corrado.
• 1:12:49
  We've got a, we do have a snare. We do have a kid on it, but the
• 1:12:53
  music, every you listen to, the quote City Kings album, you're
• 1:12:57
  going to hear a lot of really interesting percussion on and
• 1:12:59
  that's all Connor. And that that's him learning to
• 1:13:04
  do it. That's not him as a see.
• 1:13:06
  That's, that's him. That's, and so I was really
• 1:13:08
  impressed, because we, that was one of our big issues and
• 1:13:11
  songwriters come together. It's like, we can write all
• 1:13:12
  these great songs, but we can't make a good piece of music.
• 1:13:16
  Unless we have that that Civ Rhythm layer and Neal are
• 1:13:21
  bassist is an incredible bassist.
• 1:13:23
  And, you know, you know, we call them the new estate agent.
• 1:13:26
  You know, he's a great guy and he keeps time but he's he's so
• 1:13:30
  much better with a be keeping him to give him opportunity to
• 1:13:34
  shine because he's also a really elegant bassist as well too, and
• 1:13:37
  he speaks. He speaks a lot of really
• 1:13:39
  interesting musical phrases that have most basis probably
• 1:13:42
  wouldn't so. So that's a lot of that that
• 1:13:45
  came into that but you're right like putting together the right
• 1:13:47
  people. Making a right song as a solo.
• 1:13:51
  I mean you got to be pretty good.
• 1:13:53
  You got to have it all figured out, and you got to be pretty
• 1:13:55
  lucky, but I think together collectively is usually the best
• 1:13:57
  way to go. I once heard somebody say for
• 1:13:59
  every hour you are for every for every say, four hours, you play
• 1:14:04
  music or practice music or perform using by yourself, is
• 1:14:08
  worth about two hours of playing with someone else and it's worth
• 1:14:13
  about 1 hour of Performing. So if you want to think about
• 1:14:18
  the value of that, that exercise to your own musical abilities
• 1:14:22
  experiences repertoire. So, so for an hour of
• 1:14:26
  performance, you and you're doing it right, you're going to
• 1:14:28
  you're going to take away as much as you get like four hours
• 1:14:32
  of playing by yourself and then again so you can do it by
• 1:14:35
  yourself all the time but you're never really going to be getting
• 1:14:38
  the best experience I think unless you have somebody there
• 1:14:41
  to work with you. So let's move it forward.
• 1:14:44
  You'll partnered with a live music streaming.
• 1:14:49
  Platform known as home play. So tell us more about the
• 1:14:53
  company and the nature of your partnership.
• 1:14:56
  So I mean it's an informal partnership.
• 1:14:58
  It's nothing written down. We're not in cahoots in any form
• 1:15:01
  but the the The the business that has built this platform is
• 1:15:09
  one of the is managed and this platform was developed, you
• 1:15:15
  know, mostly by himself and a few other people at the company,
• 1:15:19
  he's one of my former band mates and he's been in the business
• 1:15:23
  of, we'll call it live webcasting.
• 1:15:26
  There's a lot to moving packets across the internet when sound
• 1:15:29
  quality is a big concern. And so what they've done is
• 1:15:34
  they've The platform that that allows for really high quality
• 1:15:40
  caliber of sound and video, not just from a compression
• 1:15:46
  perspective because they actually take it out of
• 1:15:48
  compression. And then re compress it, if you
• 1:15:52
  will, to put it out in a very large pipe, that allows for that
• 1:15:59
  allows for, for you to great and to get a much better sound
• 1:16:02
  experience than you're going to get out of any.
• 1:16:04
  Live platform, you'll get that's connected to social media.
• 1:16:07
  But what they really want to do is give it as a tool that makes
• 1:16:10
  it relatively easy for you or me or anybody else to go online, do
• 1:16:14
  a performance, sell some tickets.
• 1:16:16
  They take a few of the tickets. I think they take about 15
• 1:16:19
  percent or whatever it might be reminds me of like a door and at
• 1:16:22
  a bar, or something like that. And the rest is pretty easy to
• 1:16:25
  have a good team there. So, when this happens anymore,
• 1:16:31
  you know, the band couldn't get together, go to the Kings can
• 1:16:33
  get together because we're You know, we're locked down just
• 1:16:36
  like you guys. So and so I was just, I had all
• 1:16:39
  these songs that I've been working on you, that's what he
• 1:16:41
  would hurt on read at their songs that I've been working on
• 1:16:44
  that. I just, I started around covid
• 1:16:47
  and I just finished. And so they were just songs that
• 1:16:50
  I've been, you know, I now have the time to figure out, but we
• 1:16:53
  release the album and we couldn't really, you know, we
• 1:16:55
  are going to be, we are going to be releasing some videos to
• 1:16:57
  collectively as a band will be like produced like I do a piece
• 1:17:00
  and Connor does his piece and we've got holiday which is going
• 1:17:03
  to come out, which is going to be really nice.
• 1:17:04
  But but I also was like, look, you know, I want to keep the
• 1:17:08
  kind of buzz going or keep traction with some content and I
• 1:17:13
  had some time and they hooked me up with some gear and so I did a
• 1:17:17
  few streams for them and it was great.
• 1:17:19
  And I also did a bunch of reporting of my own and I'm
• 1:17:22
  still figuring that out myself. Because, you know, recording
• 1:17:25
  yourself is just I I find that's another thing producing music on
• 1:17:30
  your own is. Is not anywhere near as joyful
• 1:17:36
  as it is when you're doing it with somebody else.
• 1:17:37
  Yes. It's can be, it can be extremely
• 1:17:40
  frustrating to be to hold the musicians hat and then the
• 1:17:44
  producers hat in the same moment at the same time, when you're
• 1:17:48
  trying to do something that, you know, you know, you could get
• 1:17:51
  done a lot easier if there was two of you write or three.
• 1:17:54
  So, so for me, that's where that sort of stuff came from.
• 1:17:57
  And then what's really good, is a guy, literally, good response
• 1:17:59
  from it and I've got some gear here.
• 1:18:02
  So we're actually going to produce light.
• 1:18:03
  We're going to produce a few more of those songs properly,
• 1:18:06
  will release them on Spotify as the next push out for cold City
• 1:18:10
  Kings, but we keep it, you know, we've got enough done and
• 1:18:15
  written and ready to go. Then we're going to, we're going
• 1:18:17
  to have content ready to go every couple of months for quite
• 1:18:20
  some time. So, you know, it's a drag that
• 1:18:23
  we can't play live and hopefully, we'll be able to get
• 1:18:24
  back to that maybe by Fall. I believe, if that, if that, if
• 1:18:28
  I'm not thinking too far in the future, but creatively it's been
• 1:18:33
  One of the best experiences I've ever had.
• 1:18:35
  And you know, professionally, I'm also a, I'm also in the
• 1:18:40
  technology World professionally as well too.
• 1:18:42
  So I have a, I don't, I don't just pay the bills as a
• 1:18:46
  middle-aged folk singer. Believe It or Not, don't think
• 1:18:50
  as big of a money maker that type of stuff is you must decide
• 1:18:54
  Tech Executives. All right, I do, I work in, I
• 1:18:59
  mean, I've been in Tech my whole life and so I You know, I've
• 1:19:05
  been intact for as long as I've been in music.
• 1:19:07
  I think the two are very harmonious can be harmoniously
• 1:19:10
  linked, you know, the right technology but but I'm you know
• 1:19:15
  what, I'm not a big fan of. I live a very analog life.
• 1:19:21
  Because I have a log, a lot of history and experience in
• 1:19:23
  technology. It's like, you know, and and
• 1:19:28
  I'm, you know, I've been, I've been blessed, I've had a good
• 1:19:31
  career and I'm still going. But I've actually, I've become
• 1:19:38
  significantly better at my career as I become a better
• 1:19:41
  musician and a more dedicated musician and a more active
• 1:19:46
  musician. I like I'm in sales and I'll
• 1:19:49
  tell, you know, what's hard, this is what's hard.
• 1:19:52
  It's hard to get some. Guy or some dude, at some bar on
• 1:19:59
  the other end of the province, to call you back to get you
• 1:20:02
  booked in for an opening set and try to secure a hotel rate
• 1:20:09
  through him and get you guys fed and maybe he could we could get
• 1:20:14
  two or three hundred bucks for the gig that's hard.
• 1:20:17
  It's really not anywhere. Near as hard as as saying look,
• 1:20:21
  you know, your environment is just riddled with technology
• 1:20:24
  problems and here, the Solutions.
• 1:20:26
  Would you like to pay for that? And they would say yes, so that
• 1:20:29
  those two experiences, the the harder you get on one of the
• 1:20:32
  easier that you start to see the other.
• 1:20:35
  And I'm not a, I'm not somebody, I'm not a materialistic person.
• 1:20:40
  I don't my man. I enjoy working hard and I like,
• 1:20:45
  I like accomplishing goals but I'm not, you know.
• 1:20:49
  You know, I like guitars. It's about his vein as I get in
• 1:20:52
  my life, everything else? You know.
• 1:20:55
  I like to make sure everything just works sees the, the only
• 1:20:59
  reason I have it, right? So, that's good.
• 1:21:01
  Yeah. Like I find myself only really
• 1:21:04
  caring about sentimental things like objects, like things that
• 1:21:08
  remind me of Good Times, memories people like, of course,
• 1:21:12
  I would love to own, you know, these guitars and this thing and
• 1:21:16
  that thing but it's like I don't Rather than necessarily makes
• 1:21:20
  you happy. I mean, if things like bring you
• 1:21:23
  closer towards achieving your goals, then grate the actual
• 1:21:26
  acquisition of just stuff. I don't think ever really makes.
• 1:21:31
  Yeah. You know, I'm just one of those
• 1:21:33
  people to that just Like I don't like being sold to, I don't like
• 1:21:40
  being so to and then I sell to and so I try to keep that in
• 1:21:45
  mind when I sell. So I'm not going to waste
• 1:21:46
  anybody's time but I don't like being sold to and I always hate
• 1:21:49
  being sold to when I'm not looking for something.
• 1:21:54
  So in other words like I'm not a big fan, I hate advertising and
• 1:21:57
  nothing is people in marketing. I love people in marketing but
• 1:22:01
  well idea of just influencing people through gimmicks and
• 1:22:06
  Right now there I just it drives me crazy and I don't like to be
• 1:22:09
  part of that, but sometimes you can't avoid it.
• 1:22:12
  I mean, it's part of our industry to, you know, I was
• 1:22:14
  reading something interesting. So here's something else that
• 1:22:18
  the Arc of The Beatles, from Elvis to The Beatles, to present
• 1:22:24
  day music and fication. If you will follows a very
• 1:22:29
  similar Arc, to the creation and exploitation of the teenage
• 1:22:33
  market. And it was Until?
• 1:22:38
  Businesses would actually visited before Elvis and The
• 1:22:41
  Beatles businesses. Very rarely think that teenagers
• 1:22:44
  would have any money to spend on it.
• 1:22:45
  They don't work. It would cater to the market
• 1:22:48
  wasn't anything for them, right? You know, especially in Europe,
• 1:22:52
  right? Because you're coming out of
• 1:22:53
  post-war, right? He's nothing there for
• 1:22:55
  teenagers, right? Like, you know, half of those
• 1:22:58
  rock and rollers will tell you, I grew up in miserable damn
• 1:23:00
  house because I do with this bait dealt with this post-war
• 1:23:04
  life, right? He's somebody come back from the
• 1:23:05
  war they lived in poverty. Like Paul McCartney talks about
• 1:23:08
  it. John Lennon talks about it.
• 1:23:10
  Robert Plant talked about a Jimmy Page talks about it.
• 1:23:12
  They're like, yeah, our fathers and grandfathers were from from
• 1:23:16
  a generation that suffered pretty hard for a long time.
• 1:23:20
  So there was a whole lot of fun stuff that's going on but it
• 1:23:22
  when the Beatles show up and the all merchandising marketing and
• 1:23:27
  stuff that eventually I think is one of the things that cause
• 1:23:30
  they're managing kill himself. Was that he they had lost that
• 1:23:34
  as Revenue but he created this this exploitation is look how
• 1:23:39
  many teenagers look at the size of this market.
• 1:23:41
  Look at them show up at the Ed Sullivan Show.
• 1:23:43
  You know, when when when a television show in Los Angeles,
• 1:23:47
  famous for being the number one television show, all of a sudden
• 1:23:51
  quadruples its viewership in one day because it has four kids
• 1:23:55
  from Liverpool and the whole world goes crazy.
• 1:23:58
  And this is, this is part of an industry that's always followed.
• 1:24:02
  Music, and it's not a good part of it.
• 1:24:04
  It's the it's the part of it in and says, hey kids are turned on
• 1:24:07
  by something. Now let's sell them.
• 1:24:09
  A bunch of shit. They don't need right?
• 1:24:11
  Like and, and it's just part of it, right?
• 1:24:14
  And you know and you have artists that are like yeah I
• 1:24:16
  gotta eat this. I signed a record deal.
• 1:24:19
  So I got it. I don't have a choice.
• 1:24:21
  I got to make my record. Everybody owns this process from
• 1:24:24
  putting vinyl from a machine into your cabinet.
• 1:24:29
  Is it is a machine. I got to eat and I feel For
• 1:24:32
  them. And you, you, they do their life
• 1:24:34
  and that's probably why they get really good as artists.
• 1:24:36
  They're like, the only thing I can do because I'm owned by
• 1:24:39
  these types of things. And so that's that's part of it.
• 1:24:42
  And so you see it now and as an artist now and I just want to
• 1:24:46
  make good songs and we're ready to consume music when people
• 1:24:48
  like it. But I also I also feel like
• 1:24:52
  there's gotta be and I've also as a technologist, I've also
• 1:24:55
  tried this many Hamptons, I'm always been invested where the
• 1:24:58
  technology can best serve the interest of the listener.
• 1:25:02
  And the artist and collapse The Experience that's necessary that
• 1:25:07
  would have been there back in the final days from that entire
• 1:25:10
  world. That really pushed that artist,
• 1:25:12
  it would be comfortable place that doesn't have to happen.
• 1:25:14
  Now we don't have any of those business costs involved in
• 1:25:19
  creating labels with guys with cigars.
• 1:25:21
  That used to screw musicians anymore, right?
• 1:25:23
  Like you can produce a song, I can produce a song.
• 1:25:26
  We can put it out on a platform. What bugs me?
• 1:25:30
  Is that those platforms? Tell us that it's about Clays
• 1:25:34
  numbers but their business is about monetizing a data metric
• 1:25:40
  that they will get exponential value from, from one single one
• 1:25:45
  of our listeners. Like, that's the stats, this
• 1:25:47
  that's the part about, I don't most musicians don't understand
• 1:25:51
  like Spotify YouTube, the rest of it.
• 1:25:54
  Like I use the example of - it's not where the money is, but
• 1:26:00
  think about it this way, right? So what Spotify is ultimately,
• 1:26:03
  what all algorithm based systems are all they're trying to do is
• 1:26:06
  create more successful. Predictive predictive
• 1:26:10
  advertising? Not just like, here's the data,
• 1:26:14
  let's advertise to them. It's like we have enough data to
• 1:26:16
  tell you what they're going to do.
• 1:26:18
  Let's advertise. And let's predict what they're
• 1:26:20
  going to do an advertised. That that's the that's why.
• 1:26:24
  Say, we make money in advertising Facebook, makes
• 1:26:26
  money enough to say, go Google it, make money on Predictive
• 1:26:29
  Analytics, so that's a little bit different than saying.
• 1:26:33
  Okay. Yeah, you can put a billboard in
• 1:26:35
  my way but now, you know where I'm homes, you gonna wait till I
• 1:26:38
  get home before you put the billboard in my living room.
• 1:26:40
  That's a bit different in the relationship.
• 1:26:43
  And when we use music, we can figure out so much about
• 1:26:45
  somebody like Peter Frampton, are you fan?
• 1:26:49
  Frampton Comes Alive. One of the greatest live albums
• 1:26:51
  ever made. Ooh Baby.
• 1:26:52
  I Love Your Way. Oh Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:26:55
  yeah, yeah. Peter Frampton great guitarist.
• 1:26:59
  Great Englishmen so Frampton Comes Alive.
• 1:27:02
  Ooh Baby I Love Your Way had something like I don't know
• 1:27:07
  eight million streams or whatever it is.
• 1:27:09
  I'm really high number on Spotify.
• 1:27:11
  And at the end of the day, Frampton gets he gets like 11
• 1:27:16
  grand for that experience. Okay.
• 1:27:20
  But what Spotify gets out of it is it knows every dad. 46 who's
• 1:27:25
  driving past the Home? Depot listening to, I baby.
• 1:27:29
  Whoo, Baby. I Love Your Way and even though
• 1:27:31
  they're saying look artist, this is a steep.
• 1:27:34
  Have so many plays. It's like, yeah, metrics half of
• 1:27:39
  those plays made you twice as much money as those plays would
• 1:27:42
  make me, if not more and every time somebody else isn't you?
• 1:27:45
  And I go back in there and push more music and we participate in
• 1:27:49
  more Spotify stuff. We get more and more
• 1:27:51
  identifiable, the the bag of gate.
• 1:27:54
  That they get to mind for our are for their benefit not ours,
• 1:27:59
  their benefit and our benefit. They say our benefit is that
• 1:28:02
  will recommend music you like it's like exposure.
• 1:28:06
  Remember when somebody says something like the play for
• 1:28:07
  exposure? It's like you.
• 1:28:09
  I will have, I will have the all own.
• 1:28:11
  All the data, the value of every data metric of your piece of
• 1:28:14
  content, but I will, I will, I will allow you to participate.
• 1:28:19
  A lot of YouTube, like play with your song, under my supervision,
• 1:28:23
  under my rules, And that's the that's the problem with that,
• 1:28:26
  like that there is no real clear way of articulating that two
• 1:28:32
  other than say that. And that's not what Spotify I
• 1:28:34
  want to do. I'm interesting in more of the
• 1:28:38
  non fungible tokens. I'm a big block chain believer,
• 1:28:41
  at least it's the only, that's the only sort of path up from a
• 1:28:44
  technology perspective. We've got to get to if we're
• 1:28:47
  going to get to trusted networks, we've got to get to
• 1:28:49
  trusted architecture first. And yes, I'm not saying
• 1:28:52
  blockchain is like You know, the Divine math of Perfect Harmony
• 1:28:59
  but it's definitely better than then then hub-and-spoke data
• 1:29:05
  center architecture that has no no I can't even secure networks
• 1:29:11
  or even antivirus on let alone can be make sure that this
• 1:29:14
  number is actually this number. So I like that.
• 1:29:17
  I like the idea of it, I like the idea of an artist, having a
• 1:29:21
  token relationship, and a fan having an exponential on Charity
• 1:29:24
  with that token. That's cool to me because that's
• 1:29:27
  sort of like it's almost the entire idea of saying, like like
• 1:29:30
  why do you buy like why is there a collectible Market behind
• 1:29:33
  music, there's a huge, collectible Market behind music,
• 1:29:38
  records memorabilia tickets, posters people consume a huge
• 1:29:44
  amount of memorabilia with music and that memorabilia Market is
• 1:29:48
  based on exponential growth. So for example, if I had a
• 1:29:51
  poster that was in good condition from like, My 19 was
• 1:29:56
  at 64 and Hamburg Germany. That was like Das Betos playing
• 1:30:00
  tonight's and it was signed by, you know, Ingrid there from
• 1:30:05
  their German friend, like that piece of paper would be worth
• 1:30:08
  hundreds of thousands of dollars right now.
• 1:30:11
  So, why would a token exponentially grow when you now
• 1:30:16
  invest in a piece of art because you love it?
• 1:30:20
  But you also think other people are going to love it.
• 1:30:22
  So how that drives the scarcity of your token ship makes sense
• 1:30:27
  to me doesn't seem exploited. Right.
• 1:30:30
  And so that's why I think art as the as the key part of a of what
• 1:30:35
  a token is supposed to represent.
• 1:30:37
  Does actually kind of make sense.
• 1:30:38
  I might be missing something but so long as it can't be exploited
• 1:30:42
  and hacked and and made, you know, so it's a ledger based and
• 1:30:46
  everybody is visibility to everything.
• 1:30:48
  I see this problem. Early the next thing future for
• 1:30:52
  music right now, that and 5G networks getting really getting
• 1:30:56
  the need for compression to disappear as we move music
• 1:30:59
  Across networks. So that'll be cool.
• 1:31:04
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:31:11
  You are. I think the greatest thing a
• 1:31:20
  person can have in life is a true sense of himself.
• 1:31:26
  And I think most problems in life come from people who do not
• 1:31:32
  have a true understanding, who they are.
• 1:31:35
  And part of that is to accept that, you don't know the answer
• 1:31:38
  to that and you have to let your relationship with other people
• 1:31:43
  in the universe. Help you figure that out.
• 1:31:46
  But you know whether you think it was the things you do in ego
• 1:31:51
  or the things you do in anger and the things you do that.
• 1:31:53
  You regretted life. I think it's because you do
• 1:31:56
  those things because I either at the time you're really certain
• 1:32:01
  who you are and you're wrong. You know and you probably don't
• 1:32:07
  figure it out until later so that's it.
• 1:32:09
  Like for me that's sort of what I just try to live on is that
• 1:32:12
  you know, Your? You're also the sum total of all
• 1:32:20
  the decisions you make and so you know you can take that for
• 1:32:24
  whatever you want either trust yourself and don't trust
• 1:32:26
  yourself but you know you choose to go left you choose to go
• 1:32:29
  right? Wake up.
• 1:32:30
  Some people should go left one day and they died some people go
• 1:32:34
  right one day. And they find a lottery tickets
• 1:32:36
  a weird universe that way. But, but yeah, that's it.
• 1:32:40
  Just know yourself and just be happy to be around to
• 1:32:45
  participate in this madness. That's it, I think that the rest
• 1:32:49
  of it sort of figures itself out and I don't know, don't don't
• 1:32:55
  piss on an electric fence. There we go, another good stuff,
• 1:33:00
  from personal experience, being on a farm.
• 1:33:03
  You know, it's nice, usable advice.
• 1:33:07
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:33:10
  Thank you for sharing. I'm probably as we draw things
• 1:33:13
  to a close for today. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:33:15
  projects or maybe some final thoughts that you'd like to
• 1:33:17
  leave on? Business with.
• 1:33:19
  Well, you know, I think what you're doing is cool.
• 1:33:22
  I really enjoyed. This has been a lot of fun.
• 1:33:24
  It's been a nice break for, for this, you know, everybody's
• 1:33:28
  life. I just hope everybody's doing
• 1:33:30
  well, it keep tabs on cold City Kings if you like our music
• 1:33:34
  play, it's Let It Snow share. It will be making more.
• 1:33:38
  And, you know, you can find us on the intertubes of cold City
• 1:33:41
  kings.com, and but you can just I think you can just shout our
• 1:33:46
  name out into a Any listening device at some point, it might
• 1:33:49
  produce a sound, so we'll see. But again, I really appreciate
• 1:33:54
  it. And I also wanted to say I'm I
• 1:33:58
  think you've got something pretty special too.
• 1:34:00
  I think you've got a real Charisma and I think you've got
• 1:34:03
  a real Earnest T about what you're doing in your life right
• 1:34:07
  now. And I know sometimes especially
• 1:34:09
  at that age it in your 20s, it's a weird time in your life
• 1:34:13
  because you're starting to reconcile what I say these the
• 1:34:17
  First book of falsehoods which is most of everything you're
• 1:34:20
  told when you're a kid to what's actually going on and then and
• 1:34:25
  then you you the rest of your life is going to be a another
• 1:34:28
  version of you sort of reconciling a lot more
• 1:34:30
  falsehoods. Just keeps, you know, a little
• 1:34:34
  phrase I heard once. And I love phrases like store
• 1:34:37
  them in my mind, all the time is that when I was in my I was in
• 1:34:40
  my 20s, I was really concerned about, you know, what the world.
• 1:34:47
  The thought of me. Hmm.
• 1:34:49
  And then in my 30s and 40s, I became strong enough to not care
• 1:34:55
  what the world thought of me, and then in my 50s it I realized
• 1:34:59
  the world wasn't thinking about me at all, you know, in the end
• 1:35:07
  and to some degree that's sort of where I think you get to, you
• 1:35:11
  get to some point where you're like, wow, you know, you know, a
• 1:35:14
  lot of this rhetoric about success.
• 1:35:17
  Invest in E and dreams and happiness and whether it be in
• 1:35:20
  relationships, or financial or the rest of this.
• 1:35:23
  And there's a lot of noise out there and you sometimes, don't
• 1:35:28
  get even to hear above that noise.
• 1:35:30
  Level, like people live in Niagara Falls.
• 1:35:32
  They don't hear the Falls anymore.
• 1:35:33
  They just like, talk really loud, everybody all the time.
• 1:35:35
  They don't even realize it. So you get to that point and
• 1:35:38
  then at some point, you're going to find.
• 1:35:40
  But I think I think you've got something pretty special, and I
• 1:35:43
  think you're any time you spend You know, and I will tell
• 1:35:48
  people, I think you're creative Endeavors are sincere, but your
• 1:35:52
  skills may require more sharpening.
• 1:35:55
  I think you've got some great creative skills.
• 1:35:59
  I think can take you in a really, really, really good
• 1:36:01
  direction. And, you know, when that
• 1:36:04
  happens, you can I can be like, hey, I remember being on this
• 1:36:07
  guy's podcast, pretty cool. Keep it up man.
• 1:36:13
  Thank you very much, thank you. I will say.
• 1:36:17
  For me, I think my attitude has changed a lot especially just
• 1:36:22
  doing this podcast doing YouTube doing music like yeah I'm caring
• 1:36:27
  less and less what people think for a couple of reasons like
• 1:36:32
  one. People hate you like whatever
• 1:36:35
  you do in life you can be Mother Teresa and people still hate
• 1:36:39
  you. So you got to follow you.
• 1:36:41
  I disagree. I don't people thinking I don't
• 1:36:43
  think people hate anybody. I think people hate themselves
• 1:36:46
  and they have a real bad relationship with people who
• 1:36:49
  don't. And they can say all kinds of
• 1:36:51
  things you do. Because, you know what, you can
• 1:36:53
  set the most hateful people out there, the things that we'll do
• 1:36:57
  the actual hateful shit to you are Psychopathic, people that
• 1:37:01
  are sitting beside you at some point.
• 1:37:02
  You think our But that people, that try to hate on you from a
• 1:37:06
  distance. And I've taught my kids this as
• 1:37:08
  well to like, not to get to think that this is really their
• 1:37:11
  problem. They're yelling at you because
• 1:37:14
  of the voice in their head that hates them.
• 1:37:16
  And that's why they do it if they don't and they have not
• 1:37:19
  because and nothing you do will ever change that and they will
• 1:37:22
  yell at every person they can. And that's whether you're angry
• 1:37:26
  at a politician all day, and you can't stand the way the world
• 1:37:28
  runs and you spend your time hating online or if you're
• 1:37:31
  barking at people in the street or if your Bullying people, you
• 1:37:35
  know, you don't want to, it doesn't bring you Joy, if it
• 1:37:38
  brings you Joy or the chemical problem in your mind, you can
• 1:37:41
  psychologist classify that you're a sadist, or you're a
• 1:37:45
  psychopath, but that's not most people.
• 1:37:47
  Hi. That's my fundamental belief.
• 1:37:49
  And it's hard because I think people, that's where you don't
• 1:37:51
  have a sense of yourself, you're projecting your false sense of
• 1:37:54
  yourself on the me, trying to use his hateful language or as
• 1:37:57
  hateful rhetoric. And if you want to come at me
• 1:37:59
  and physically hurt me and break the law and do this type of
• 1:38:02
  stuff. That's a different conversation.
• 1:38:03
  Altogether. But this type of garbage that we
• 1:38:05
  get, I think we all need to rise above it and call it out for
• 1:38:08
  what it is that this is your insecurities talking.
• 1:38:12
  It's not mine because this is this says, way more about you
• 1:38:17
  than it does about anything. I would do.
• 1:38:19
  That's my final message. Regardless, if you're worried
• 1:38:21
  about anybody hating on, you lonely.
• 1:38:24
  Lonely. Attention, hoarding, empty.
• 1:38:27
  Souls are people that hate, but that's my thoughts.
• 1:38:33
  Thank you very much for being a great guest for forgiving us.
• 1:38:37
  Some great advice. I think all of us, listening, I
• 1:38:40
  know I've learned a lot from this, and I appreciate that.
• 1:38:44
  Thanks for letting me, we'd go on like an idiot.
• 1:38:46
  And it's been a pleasure, you know, honestly, I always liked
• 1:38:49
  all the talking to fellow musicians anyway, and you know,
• 1:38:53
  it's one of the reasons I like doing this podcast is every time
• 1:38:57
  I have someone on, it's a completely different person, a
• 1:38:59
  different mindset, background, everything, and You know, I
• 1:39:05
  think that we're all here to learn at the end of the day,
• 1:39:09
  whether we want to sort of accept that or not and I'd like
• 1:39:14
  to think I have a pretty open mind these days and you know,
• 1:39:18
  it's always it's always a pleasure to just learn every
• 1:39:21
  every time from someone completely new from a different
• 1:39:24
  part of the world and everything and I know it's pretty cool.
• 1:39:28
  It's 10 days. 10 billion assholes are like opinions.
• 1:39:32
  Everyone's got one Okay, well I appreciate it.
• 1:39:41
  I've got a sign off. I really enjoyed it.
• 1:39:43
  And yeah, let's keep tabs on each other.
• 1:39:46
  And again Christians are really pleasure in meeting you and
• 1:39:51
  attention to how to be connected to you.
• 1:39:52
  Thank you very much. And I want to say a big thank
• 1:39:55
  you to everyone listening to the Christian read podcast.
• 1:39:57
  Make sure you go and check it out.
• 1:39:59
  Check out cold City Kings and yeah, thank you very much for
• 1:40:03
  listening. Saying until next time.
• 1:40:04
  Peace out. One love.
• 1:40:05
  I see you in the next one.