Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Golf Companion: Singapore Sling, Toronto Swing.

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Golf Companion: Singapore Sling, Toronto Swing. · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jen, this week we're teeing off on a job ad so niche it makes the
• 0:16
  episode we recorded a few weeks back for the dog walker and
• 0:18
  household coordinator
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: look like entry level work.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: This family office wants to meet their new golf
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: companion.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a full-time gig where the main
• 0:30
  responsibility is hitting the links with a wealthy family
• 0:33
  because apparently
• 0:36
  things,
• 0:36
  they need doing,
• 0:36
  and those things involve grip tips and small talk.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a catch though.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Half the year you're in Toronto, the other half you're
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: in Singapore.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because nothing says work life balance like jet lag with a side
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: helping of cross-cultural fire-walking in the mix.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Reading this job ad ahead of
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: time, it left me with just one question.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a job or an audition for a
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: reality show about the 1% of jet setters?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to roast?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am ready to roast this.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what grip tips are, but I like the sound
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: of that, so I'm ready.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: you might not be qualified for this
• 1:15
  of that, so I'm ready. you might not be qualified for this
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: job then.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not, considering I've
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've mini golfed and that's about it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that there's a job out
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: there like this is pretty exciting.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to this
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: one.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I the first thing I
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: thought when I read this job ad was... oh, this is really neat.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that
• 1:36
  this kind of reminds me a little bit of that family from Crazy
• 1:39
  Rich Asians.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think this might be like one of those.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, let's like let's get into it.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: This
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: is a cool one.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you first how where did you
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: find this job posting?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: How did you find this?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: This was on Indeed.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like the just like the one
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: that you found for the dog walker.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: it was posted on a platform and it was like
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: written out as an actual job ad with a bunch of stuff.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of neat.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: anyway, very cool.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, it's called Golf
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Companion.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Golf Companion.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: so we'll start off
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: with the Roasty Profile per the usual.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: For the folks at home, Jen has not seen
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: this ahead of time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: so we're kind of throwing it at her and she is reacting
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: in real time to it.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go through the job ad, then we will get into guessing
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: the salary because that's also a thing we like to do.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: We'll take a short break.
• 2:29
  Jen can read through the job ad and we'll come back at the end
• 2:32
  to score the
• 2:34
  ad and give people who are looking for a job like this or
• 2:36
  people who are writing
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: a job ad like this some tips and some advice based on how we read it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: All
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: right, so job title is golf companion.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: The report to title is unknown.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: The
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: company size is also unknown.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: The industry is family offices.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: What do they
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: do?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this family office, they do things.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Things presumably
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: things and also things.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: The details, yeah, they're murky.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't know.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Head office location, it's in Toronto here in Canada.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Job location, Toronto,
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: here in Canada and Singapore.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: We will get into that for sure.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Geographical
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: operating area is unknown.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: We just we don't know.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Job type, permanent,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: full-time, and it's an on-site job.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this job description or this job ad,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: unlike many that we roast, this one is very short.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, I'm going to break our
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: rule.
• 3:37
  Instead of just cherrypicking bits and pieces out of each
• 3:39
  section for us to
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: talk about, I'm going to go through the whole thing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: The way that it was
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: written, it kind of self-reinforces and the points that it makes, they
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: really tie together.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not super long, so we'll break our rule and go
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: through the whole thing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: The job ad itself, it's structured with
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: a few different sections.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: We've got the position overview, that's one section.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Candidate profile, primary responsibilities,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: applicant qualities, experience.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, those are the job
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: sections.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to read this out verbatim.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, folks at home, if I kind
• 4:14
  of trip over things and stumble a little bit,
• 4:16
  I'm just reading it how they
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: wrote it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's half the fun when we do these.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Beginning with the position overview, we're seeking an experienced golf
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: companion for a family located in Toronto.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: The successful applicant will
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: be responsible for supporting the principles with regular golf practice
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: between May and September.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: During the off season, the candidate will travel to
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Singapore to continue working with the family.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: This position is full-time live
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: out, work days and hours will align with the family's schedule.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Next section is the candidate profile.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're an experienced and knowledgeable
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: golfing professional ready to be both a coach and a practice partner.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: understand how to communicate clearly with your principles and enjoy
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: practicing English with them.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're knowledgeable about North American
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: culture and lifestyle.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're a discreet and polished professional with a
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: university degree.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm going to pause there.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: was there anything that
• 5:24
  stuck out in those first two sections,
• 5:24
  the reading of it for you that you want
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: to talk about?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what stuck out to me is the fact
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: that this is a job that somebody... That's wild.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, there are a few
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: things actually.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: so off season on during during the golfing season, I
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: imagine they're in Toronto golfing with the family.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Off season, they're in Singapore
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: with the family.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder what they're doing there.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Are they also
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: spending time golfing coaching, golfing with this family?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: about who is paying for this travel and accommodation.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like if part of the job
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: is asking you to also live in a different country, are they helping with
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: like visa requirements?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are they paying your rent?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are they paying your rent
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: back home in Toronto so that you don't lose your space or your mortgage?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever your situation is.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be What did you say about...
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: North American culture?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: They needed to be
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So they what they say, this is verbatim how it's written out in the job
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: ad.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: you're knowledgeable about North American culture and lifestyle.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're a discreet and polished professional with a university degree.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I guess those are the things that stand out to me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is to me it's
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: a family office job.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: it sounds like they are newcomers to North America and
• 6:52
  they would like someone to teach them how to golf and also
• 6:56
  teach them some of
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: the cultural norms of a country that they're unfamiliar with.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: so to me,
• 7:03
  this isn't just a golf companion,
• 7:04
  but I'm really curious to hear more about
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more to what this role requires.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so the wheels are turning
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: about what kind of the pay might look like for this.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Again, living
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: arrangement, all of that stuff.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: really interesting.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Good find.
• 7:19
  Yeah,
• 7:19
  certainly this...
• 7:21
  certainly this this comes off a little bit as kind of a
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: kind of a cultural tutor.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: or cultural sherpa sort of thing
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: alongside the the golfing stuff.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way that at first glance, the way
• 7:38
  this kind of reads and what we've talked about so far is like,
• 7:41
  okay,
• 7:41
  so you're
• 7:42
  you're basically looking for someone who has been a golf pro at
• 7:46
  a course or
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: a club, right, to to kind of go private and work only for this family.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: But then
• 7:52
  there's this other stuff that kind of creeps in there a little
• 7:55
  bit,
• 7:55
  too,
• 7:55
  which
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: makes it make a bit more sense that this is an actual job, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the
• 8:00
  first thing that pops into my mind with this is,
• 8:03
  okay,
• 8:04
  why are you hiring a
• 8:07
  golf companion to teach you how to play golf on a permanent
• 8:11
  full-time basis with
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: a salary attached to it?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that already exists.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can get a membership
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: at any country club anywhere and you can learn how to play golf
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: there.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the golf pros are fantastic.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: The coaches are fantastic.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: They already
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: kind of do that.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, why make this a thing?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I go back to them
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: likely, this family being newcomers to the country.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't quite feel
• 8:35
  comfortable yet going to a golf club or a private country club
• 8:37
  or whatever.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to learn those norms first before they set foot in those
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: areas because I mean, let's be honest, they're not going to be the most
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: inclusive.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they want to speak a little bit
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: more of the language.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: maybe they want to yeah, understand just like I said,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: some of the cultural norms.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's why.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned somebody
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: who works at a golf club.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also thinking about maybe this is someone who
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: is a student or a recent grad.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they're, you know, sports,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: scholarships, things like that.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: There are a couple options of what
• 9:11
  it is they could be looking for someone who might be really
• 9:14
  well suited to to
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: this role.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's a good point.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: a really good point.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to carry on with the and I think I'm
• 9:21
  probably just going to read out the last three sections because
• 9:24
  again this is
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: this is quite a short job ad compared to a lot of the ones that we roast.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 9:31
  we'll get through the entire thing and then we'll kind of
• 9:33
  circle back with more
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: holistic comments on it.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the next section is primary responsibilities.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: and as usual all bullet points like we like to say that this show is
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: about teasing out the story behind the bullet points.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: First bullet point daily
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: golfing with the family.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then there's coach family on proper golfing
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: techniques.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Then there is speak English with the family to help them improve.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: The next section after that is applicant qualities.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent English
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: communication skills and professional personal presentation.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent golf proficiency.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Prior coaching experience an asset.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: university degree as asset [sic].
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: that's how it's written
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: especially in finance or kinesiology.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Next bullet point is must maintain privacy and confidentiality always
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: exercising diplomacy discretion and respecting appropriate boundaries.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Must
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: be legally entitled to work in Canada.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: A valid driver's license is required.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: the last section is experience.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Golf coaching: 5 years preferred.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: License
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: or certification driver's license and vehicle required.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Willingness to travel 75%.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Preferred.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Work location in person and job type full-time.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the job ad in its entirety.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the back half of that you might
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: say the last nine holes remaining in this in this job ad.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Don't say that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was a terrible joke.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the back half of this job ad
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: kind of rounds out some of the stuff, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were talking early
• 11:23
  on about how,
• 11:24
  you know,
• 11:24
  the ideal person is going to be knowledgeable about North
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: American culture and lifestyle, discreet and polished, etc., etc., etc.
• 11:32
  Then they get into they're talking about like,
• 11:35
  okay,
• 11:35
  you know,
• 11:35
  you've got a
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: university degree in kinesiology or finance.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of made me stop and
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: think like what's up with that?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what did you think?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like what
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: were your impressions of that first?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like daily go daily golfing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: lot of golfing.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: A lotta golf.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: but it's a lot of golf and it just like it it that's a full-time job.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: interesting to me.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they say speak English with family, help them to
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: improve.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So again, this to me is reading like these are newcomers to the country.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a family.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I Imagine that there are children involved.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: They speak a
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: couple of times to having a driver's license.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, I wonder if this golfing
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: coach is also going to be somewhat of a chauffeur.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: maybe they're doing
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: golfing with the parents and then running to the school to pick up the
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: kids, bringing them to the golf course.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's very golf centric.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this
• 12:29
  is another kind of indicator to me that maybe this is a family
• 12:32
  who is not you
• 12:35
  know hasn't been living in the country for very long because
• 12:38
  like the focus is
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: on golf.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there are other activities but it's so stereotypical
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: that golf would be the thing.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: If they have the money to hire someone to do
• 12:49
  this as a full-time job then they have a lot of money and so
• 12:52
  their perception of
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: what it means to have a lot of money is golf.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: so that's really interesting
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: to me.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Degree in finance kinesiology.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: kinesiology makes sense.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they
• 13:06
  will help the family kind of stretch before,
• 13:09
  during,
• 13:09
  and after or help with
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: any like golf related injuries.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the finance degree that I find to be really
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: interesting.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that when we say that there's a story behind the
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: bullet points, this is exactly what we're talking about.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like what would you
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: guess then that this family does for a living?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Based on...
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I this this this smells like international finance to me.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: this this really seems like the... the family is, as you say, they're
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: they're kind of relocating to Canada probably as a part of their
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: career.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a professional move.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm imagining that they're a part
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: of a hedge fund or something that operates out of Asia.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: normally based in Singapore.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: that's kind of where they're from.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're coming to
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: North America to, I don't know, build a beach head for their firm.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: kind of what they're doing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: The finance thing in that kind of context,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: it made sense to me.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: The finance thing did make sense to me, because
• 14:07
  if they want this person to be a bit of a confidante and a bit
• 14:12
  of a person that
• 14:13
  they can talk stuff through with on the links,
• 14:16
  that starts to make a lot of
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: sense.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: like the undiscussed... or undisclosed...
• 14:26
  role creep that we're kind of seeing come together through the
• 14:29
  bullet points
• 14:30
  is starting to paint a picture of like why this is an actual
• 14:33
  job versus they're
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: just going to like the golf and country club to hang out and learn how to
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: play golf.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: like this this more and more kind of seems to me like a job where you
• 14:42
  know you you went to university perhaps on a golf scholarship
• 14:44
  like you were
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: saying you are finished that now you've got your... you've got your
• 14:51
  your BA finance or your BM finance or whatever it is like,
• 14:53
  whatever degree it
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: is B.Comm.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: doesn't matter you've got that in the bag now and you're trying to
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: start your career.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why not this?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Combine those two things right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: The
• 15:04
  kinesiology thing that made no sense to me I would imagine
• 15:08
  someone bringing
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: on or saying like, you know, you have a degree in sports medicine.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: That would
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: make a ton of sense.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sports medicine.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe this family
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: is thinking that their kids will go to the pros or something or go to
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: university on their own golf scholarships one day.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: so you want
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: them kind of, you know, to be able to keep in peak condition.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: kinesiology
• 15:29
  didn't quite line up with that,
• 15:30
  but you know,
• 15:31
  kind of in the same like area,
• 15:31
  I
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: suppose.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it could speak to as well if
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: they're not from this country.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: maybe maybe a degree in kinesiology means
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: something a bit different where they're from, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe there's there's
• 15:45
  a communication clash,
• 15:46
  which brings me to the question of kind of who wrote
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: this job posting.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: because you would think a family office looking for a role
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: like this would go through a recruitment firm or their own family
• 15:57
  office,
• 15:58
  their house manager or whatever they have,
• 15:59
  but I don't know that they
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: have that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: like I think they're really starting from zero in in this country
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: and yeah they're looking for someone like you said who can talk business
• 16:11
  finance on the links which will help when we go back to their
• 16:14
  desire to have
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: someone who can teach them a bit more English
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: specifically about the like practicing speaking English when it comes to
• 16:24
  speaking about the finance world right so so it's really
• 16:26
  interesting to me that
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: a role like this would be posted on Indeed because it's quite specific
• 16:32
  and I think that they could find what they're looking for if
• 16:34
  they targeted
• 16:36
  schools,
• 16:36
  alumni networks,
• 16:37
  and places like that or even going to golf shops.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, it's interesting to me that you would find a job posting like
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: this on Indeed.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a little bit like, wait a minute, Spidey senses are
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: tingling.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is this real?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is this... it feels like... it feels like it's not a
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: daily like a golf companion full-time a full-time golf companion.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: The other
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: question is 75% travel.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like does the does the job posting speak at all to how
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: they support the person.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: They say that they must have they must be able to
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: like live legally and work legally in Canada.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: What about Singapore?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Does it
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: mention anything about that?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, doesn't doesn't say anything.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: that that
• 17:25
  was...
• 17:25
  that was definitely a red flag for me as I was reading through
• 17:28
  this.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: There... the details were very very sparse.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like earlier on you said, "Okay, what
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: does what does it look like when you're in Singapore?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like are you arranging and
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: paying for your own housing?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you living with them while you're traveling
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: through Singapore?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are they arranging housing?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: What about the visa side of
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: it?"
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: don't know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And none of those details are really clear.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I
• 17:52
  I would be if I was looking at this job and thinking I well I
• 17:54
  want to apply for
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: this.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all gaps that would make me think
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this isn't actually a real job because we know that we know that
• 18:02
  employment fraud is on the rise and we know that there are lots
• 18:06
  of scams out
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: there, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this is just light enough on details that some people
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: would pick up on it and be like I think they're trying to kidnap me.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: won't do this.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: like they're gonna they're gonna
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: torture me and ask me all about golf.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: does it talk about was that the job
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: posting?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like does it talk about That was the entirety of the job
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: posting.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was very short.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you apply through Indeed.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You apply through Indeed.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: interesting.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, things situations like this when the job
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: postings seem too good to be true.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that this is a scam, but like
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: it seems too good to be true.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a full-time job traveling and teaching a
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: family how to play golf.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sounds pretty cool.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: If I were into golf, I
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: would be like, and I didn't have a family and I wasn't pushing 50, I'd be
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: like, this sounds pretty cool.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's the rub.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's the rub.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: 75% travel, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, it's saying you're going to spend six months of the year in another
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: country.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a specific person.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: One who does not have roots and
• 19:12
  is not tied down to their community and does not have a family
• 19:15
  unless you're
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: willing to separate from your family and some people are but not ideal.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: 75% travel is a lot of travel.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where we go back to
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: new grad and I feel like perhaps they're posting this in the wrong place.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 19:28
  we talk about this a lot on the show about...
• 19:30
  you need to understand who's
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: your ideal candidate profile.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: What is the ideal candidate profile?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Design that
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: first.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So figure out all the things and they have it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have it in there.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: They know who it is that they're looking for.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then design the job posting for
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: that person.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You will find each other, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's somebody is looking for
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: something just like this and then you've got an ideal candidate.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You will find
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: each other at some point, but you have to go through the right channels.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: and
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: you have to speak to that person.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, this is a very vague job posting.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: and you're not necessarily gonna find that person through Indeed.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, who,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if anyone has posted jobs on Indeed.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: You get applicants with I mean
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: wildly unrelated to the job that you've posted.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: yeah absolutely.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there are better ways to design the job and then and then
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: focus in on okay we need someone who maybe isn't tied down with a family.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: We
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: need someone who maybe is a little bit younger.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things figure that
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: out.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Design for that for that individual.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine it's one person.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine it's your soulmate, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do like a vision board for this job.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: and
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: that's how you should begin like point zero with design a job ad.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting you you bring up how Indeed is kind of the
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: wild west and you get candidates that are just wildly mismatched for what
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: you're looking for.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not too long ago, I actually learned a little bit more about
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: the innards of Indeed's business model.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, Indeed makes money by
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: employers running campaigns, basically ad campaigns, that are kind
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: of in the pay-per-click model.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, they monetize, they say, "Alright, you
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: know, company who's going to post an ad, post an ad.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: that's great.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're
• 21:24
  going to put it in front of our audience targeted and segmented
• 21:26
  and all this and
• 21:29
  you will pay per interaction or bucket of interactions for
• 21:32
  people who actually
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: engage with that ad.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they're basically saying like for every hundred
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: clicks on the ad you're going to pay us x dollars.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they make money.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not incentivized, structurally, to have high quality fit
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: matches between the job ad and the people coming in.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're incentivized
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: to create engagement.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same kind of ensh*ttification that you see in
• 21:54
  advertising on Instagram and Meta and all these social media
• 21:57
  platforms that
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: are now like really, really ad-dominated and ad-driven.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: The incentive mismatch is
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: kind of there.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think partly explains why you see such wild stuff on
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed when you're an employer.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and here's the thing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of
• 22:11
  people post administrative type like lower barrier to entry
• 22:15
  jobs on places
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: platforms like Indeed.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're saying and those are the jobs that you
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: get a lot of applicants for.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying is they're going to be
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: paying by per click for that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting a lot of applicants for
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: administrative coordinator type roles.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is not financially worth it for you
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: as an organization to post administrative level jobs on Indeed.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's it's such a waste of your money.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So again, you have to think more
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: strategically.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Who is your ideal candidate?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where are they?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: how you try to find your candidates.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you build your talent pool.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: it's not just by thinking Indeed is the easiest way.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it depends.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: If
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: you have money to burn and you want to do it that way, absolutely.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you're
• 23:02
  going to get unqualified candidates and you're going to pay a
• 23:04
  lot of money for
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, there are better ways to do that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: and it's not indeed.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: so think about which platform you're using and for what.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we got way off
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: track.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about a full-time job at a family office as a golf
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: companion.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: We So, we went on a little tangent
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: down like a side road there.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you saying that that happened to us?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Never.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: That never happens when we're taping an episode.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Man,
• 23:31
  no.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a... that's actually a pretty
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: good segue getting us back on track.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the last thing we talked about being
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: like money.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: that's a great segue into what I maintain is my favourite part
• 23:44
  of the show where you get to guess the salary and I get to look
• 23:48
  at the number
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: and say, "Are you right?"
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I hate this part of the show.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I find
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: it to be mortifying.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm typically I'm really off.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very generous with
• 24:01
  the salaries because I think I can't help but,
• 24:05
  you know,
• 24:05
  guess what I think
• 24:07
  it should be paid not what the reality of the situation is and
• 24:10
  so I tend to
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: go over significantly.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: however I think that this is a wealthy family.
• 24:22
  I think that this is a very important position that they're
• 24:25
  hiring for and
• 24:26
  they might see it,
• 24:27
  I read it as them seeing it as almost like someone that
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: they're bringing into their family.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: and therefore they might be willing to
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: pay a whole heck of a lot for that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I would guess and again like Singapore ties, we're talking about finance.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: they want someone who has a university education.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, those are things that are
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: going to bring the the salary up in my opinion.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Toronto.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: so I'm going to
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: guess that this the annual salary in Canadian dollars for this role is
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: like CAD $125,000 a year.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's my guess.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: hope it is for a full-time private golf companion.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're pretty close.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're pretty close.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the the range that they put
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: down was CAD $100,000 a year to CAD $120,000 per year.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when you read... when you take
• 25:26
  that number and you contextualize it with just like you're
• 25:29
  hiring a full-time
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: golf buddy for 120k a year, it sounds crazy.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that sounds whackadoodle.
• 25:36
  But the story that kind of teased out as we were going through
• 25:38
  this and talking
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: about this job ad was that this is a lot much more like a
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Consiglieri type thing than it is like a like a golf pro type thing.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: this person... they'll be kind of a trusted advisor on
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: cultural issues and on other stuff.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if the person that comes in does have
• 25:58
  a finance degree probably be talking about business on the golf
• 26:00
  course too.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: like that becomes much more of a strategic partner than it does
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: a golf coach.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So like that higher salary?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of makes sense.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of makes sense through that lens.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that if this is not a scam, if this is a legitimate
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: opportunity, it's a phenomenal one.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you are into golf,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: for a new grad, for a new grad, it's a phenomenal
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: opportunity.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I would caution, like we said, we don't know if this was
• 26:28
  legitimate or not,
• 26:29
  but I would caution anyone who...
• 26:31
  whatever the interview
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: process ends up being, maybe do a Zoom first.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even then though, like I have a friend
• 26:40
  who is a full-time recruiter and she was saying that they did a
• 26:43
  Zoom interview
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: with someone who was using full-on AI.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: they weren't themselves
• 26:48
  and when they couldn't answer specific questions,
• 26:50
  they just ended the call
• 26:51
  themselves they were like we're just gonna stop this right now
• 26:54
  and ended the
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: call.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: so even then I would be cautious but the first step would
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: definitely be something on video.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: and if you need to meet someone in person do
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: it in a public place.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: because... Go to the course.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Go to the course
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: and play nine, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: that's a really good point.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even
• 27:11
  if you go to a driving range,
• 27:13
  do the interview at the like suggest that they
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: might really like that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: It shows how like into the golf you are.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: but just
• 27:21
  be cautious because this...
• 27:22
  when it's a private family office and it's not run
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: through like a management company.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: this could be anyone.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, be be
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: overly cautious.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe have a friend go with you sitting at a different table or
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: something like that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: but don't go it alone.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: if it's real, phenomenal.
• 27:43
  this is a fantastic opportunity and I'm proud that I was really
• 27:46
  close to the
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: salary for the first time ever.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the closest you've ever
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: been.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Good for you.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is too.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that that takes us into our intermission.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: we will be back in a
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: little bit, folks.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: so Jen's going to turn off her camera.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to read
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: through the job ad.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: We will come back in a couple of minutes and we'll do the
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: final scoring and wrap up for the show.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned, y'all.
• 28:24
  Hey everybody,
• 28:24
  we are back from our intermission and break there where Jen
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: took a little bit of time to read through the job posting.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's got kind
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: of more of the first person context on it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to go into scoring this
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: job ad as we do every single week.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are two things that we score on.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of
• 28:42
  course,
• 28:42
  we score the job ad itself,
• 28:44
  how it was written,
• 28:45
  does it make sense,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: etc., etc.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then we score the role design.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Does the role make sense?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Is
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: this sustainable?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a job that you can actually do long term without things
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: going all belly up?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that in mind, beginning the scoring, Jen, what
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: did you think about the job ad itself?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: How would you score that out of 10 and
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: why?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, I really like the job ad.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: think it's a really cool, interesting job.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think they give a lot of
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: important information.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when it's a family office, it's a little
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: bit more of a challenge.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times we talk about how if it's an
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: organization, they're not giving enough about their culture.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're not giving
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: us that kind of like employee value proposition.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why would someone want to
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: work here?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's harder to do that when it's a family office job.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: okay.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, there they listed the salary.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm giving them points for
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: they don't talk about really what the interview process looks like.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: and they don't talk about yeah benefits or anything else like do you
• 29:49
  have health coverage you're traveling a lot is that included
• 29:52
  like there you
• 29:53
  really need a bit more information to attract the candidates
• 29:57
  and so that's
• 29:58
  lacking but it's not the worst job ad I've ever seen I mean if
• 30:01
  you've watched
• 30:02
  this show or listened to this show at all,
• 30:03
  you know that there are far worse so job
• 30:08
  ad itself I gave this one a seven out of 10 when we talk about
• 30:11
  job design like
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: you said, is this sustainable?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Does it make sense?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I gave it a
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: little bit of a lower rating out of 10.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is, even though, you might not
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: think it, this is designed for someone who's like fresh out of school.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you
• 30:30
  have a family,
• 30:30
  if you have a mortgage,
• 30:31
  if you have pets,
• 30:32
  you can't do this job.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can't travel to Singapore, you know, for half the year, and be a
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: full-time golfing companion with a full family.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: They are going to want a
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: lot more of you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: and they're paying accordingly.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, that's fantastic.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: but sustainability, no, I can't see someone lasting in this role for more
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: than like two years.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's an expiration date on this
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: role.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I also for job design need to know how they're going to support this
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: person and like their rent back home or mortgage.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: and it just needs more
• 31:09
  information in terms of job design in order for it to be a
• 31:11
  sustainable role.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: visas, all of that kind of thing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: They talk about driver's license and
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: vehicle a lot.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's some stuff missing in
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: the job design.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: If it's if it's golf companion and confidante or business
• 31:29
  advisor,
• 31:29
  strategic advisor,
• 31:30
  whatever,
• 31:31
  then just say that that's what it is.
• 31:33
  so I think that they're...
• 31:34
  job design wise,
• 31:35
  there it's a little bit secretive.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit vague.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit ambiguous and that's... that sets
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: off like spidey senses for me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I gave the job design itself a five out of 10.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was kind of in the same ballpark as you for
• 31:54
  this...
• 31:54
  the job ad itself even even though it was it was kind of
• 31:58
  simple...
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: it was two pages.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I liked that.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: It did, very succinctly, paint that
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: picture of what they were looking for.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: For sure it did that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: But it was
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: lacking a few things for me.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: it was lacking and this isn't as common with
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: family offices as it is brands and corporations that are
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: hiring.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was lacking some of the vision, what you're trying to accomplish
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: as an organization.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I would kind of argue that for a family office, you
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: could still make a... you could still take a crack at that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: You could still try and
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: do that.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: You could say, you know, the family office is engaged in this thing.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to accomplish this.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: We want our time here to really result in that
• 32:43
  happening and we're excited for you to play kind of an integral
• 32:46
  part of that
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: and family values too, right?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: What are Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if there is kind of scope
• 32:54
  creep for the role looking into...
• 32:56
  kind of,
• 32:56
  family care or tutoring or you know
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: kind of the cultural advisory type stuff that they've
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: hinted they're looking for.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: you could kind of weave that in, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You could
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: say, you know, the time that we are in Canada, we want to really
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: accomplish this and this is why.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you could spend a little bit more time
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: getting into the details of that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that was missing from this for
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: sure.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that would also help build trust.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: there is an endemic trust
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: issue with this job ad.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're going to be wondering is this real?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: am I safe?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: etc., etc., etc.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because there isn't a lot of credibility that
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: comes along with a black box, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: and what's behind this ad is very much a
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: black box.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, I gave this a six.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, I was I was kind of favourable to
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: it, but there were things that were missing.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: another thing actually that
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: was missing that I think is pretty important is that discussion of what
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: happens with housing when you're in Singapore, you know, is that being
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: funded by your employer or by you?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because that also makes quite a bit of
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: difference for salary, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're going to have to keep on funding
• 34:06
  your home in Toronto through rent or mortgage,
• 34:08
  if you're a new grad,
• 34:08
  probably
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: rent.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe you're living with your parents, so it's no big deal.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But
• 34:14
  if you have to carry rent in Toronto and then rent yourself a
• 34:17
  place in Singapore
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: as well, that's going to really cut into your earnings in a big, big way.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: that CAD $100,000 to CAD $120,000?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not as enticing as it seemed at first
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: glance.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I would have liked more clarity on is the
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: driving thing.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: it says need a license, need to be able to drive in
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Ontario.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Totally fine.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whose car?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Your car?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Their car?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: There are
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: insurance implications for that, liability implications, right?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Whether
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: it's your own personal car or your employer's car.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, that
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: kind of stuff got to be sorted out.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: They did say vehicle, because I wrote
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: that down in my notes.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: driver's license plus vehicle.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, it sounds like it
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: would be your own car, but are you driving the family around in your car?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's That's kind of it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're... to your
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: point, yeah, they did say vehicle.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I interpreted that, and, ambiguity
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: again, like, we run into ambiguity a lot with these...
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I interpreted that as
• 35:20
  you must have your own vehicle to get to to the club to do like
• 35:25
  the golfing
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: practice or coaching or whatever with them.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be able to get
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: yourself there.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: which makes a heck of a lot of sense because in the GTA,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Greater Toronto Area, some of the nicer clubs that you would go to as a
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: wealthy person, not in areas well serviced by public transit.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you're
• 35:43
  you're taking an Uber there or you're taking a cab there or
• 35:45
  you're driving
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: there and these people are obviously saying like you got drive yourself
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: there.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's how Interpreted it.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe it is like, you must have your own
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: car to also chauffeur them around.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: If that's the case, sort out the insurance.
• 36:00
  And it's a good point too though uh before you get to your
• 36:03
  other score about
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: room for multiple interpretations.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't be that way, right?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: like
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: be crystal clear when you're writing a job ad
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: what it is that you're getting at and not leave room for different like
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: obviously people have different perspectives and stuff, but at the end of
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: the day we're talking about facts here so give the information as much as
• 36:25
  possible so that you're not leaving it open to interpretation
• 36:27
  because this
• 36:28
  has happened to us many times when we've read job postings on
• 36:31
  the show where we
• 36:32
  both interpreted something completely opposite of each other
• 36:35
  and we don't know
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: which one is true and that's because it's poorly written It's vague.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: vague.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Valid point.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Valid point.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ambiguity not a good thing in job ads.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah, how the job ad was written,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: six out of 10 for me.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: the role design, like you, a little bit less.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: this is definitely a role that has a clock on it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I also don't see this
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: lasting more than a couple of years.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there there are some influences on that,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you do get a new grad in this role, they're going to have probably
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: their own kind of ambitions both professionally and personally.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: they're maybe going to want to start a family.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're maybe going to want to
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: like buy a house.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're maybe going to want to start their career in what
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: they studied for.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: They can't do those things if they are in Toronto six months
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: of the year, in Singapore six months of the year, and they're kind of an
• 37:36
  extension of the family office's family,
• 37:38
  which is what it sounds like a little
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: bit.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, there's a clock on this.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's okay, though.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the family
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: office has actually planned for that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't actually see having a
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: full-time golf companion at CAD $120,000 for more than a couple years.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe its a contract position, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're coming from Singapore to Toronto
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: for like a two, three year contract.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: That would make sense, too.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Could be.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Could be.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's the case, like put that in the job ad.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because being able to say that
• 38:09
  with a role like this where you're going to be traveling six
• 38:13
  months of the year
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: to the literally the other side of the planet, like 12 hours time
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: difference between Toronto and that part of Asia... being able to say
• 38:25
  this is a two-year engagement,
• 38:27
  two-year fixed-term contract,
• 38:28
  you're actually
• 38:29
  going to encourage more people who are the good fit that you
• 38:32
  want to apply for
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: it.
• 38:34
  You're going to take those like 22,
• 38:36
  23 year old kids who have just graduated
• 38:38
  university on a golf scholarship who might bite at this and be
• 38:40
  like,
• 38:40
  "Ah,
• 38:40
  you
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: know what?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's only two years.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: CAD $240,000?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: That'll pay down most of my
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: student loan.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, let's go.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just start after that.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Dope, right?"
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't say that in the job ad.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So would have been stronger if they had if
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: that's the case.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, so this isn't going to be super sustainable from a
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: role design perspective.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: the travel thing is going to be tough.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: it also
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: doesn't talk... and you called this out....
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't talk about arranging travel
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: visas and work permits and whatnot.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: How is that going to work?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now Singapore
• 39:13
  does have a lot less regulation in this space than we do,
• 39:16
  but there is still
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: some and it's got to be sorted out.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: who's on that doesn't really say.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And another question to kind of ask is like are you even eligible to get
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: that permission to work in Singapore as the person who's in this
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: job?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: So like there are some there are definitely some tangles in how
• 39:38
  this role has been designed that are a little bit,
• 39:40
  like...
• 39:40
  a little bit question
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: marks.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, this role design, it's a 5 out of 10.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's more about
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: uncertainty than it is the actual structure of the role itself.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like the
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: structure of the role, it's pretty...
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say it's pretty good for a new grad who
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: kind of checks all the boxes, but 5 out of 10.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what you just made me think about too?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is what happens.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: supposed to be the end.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is what happens to
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: say you made me think about something when we talked about you know
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: identifying designing your ideal candidate profile and then building from
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: there when you're designing job ads.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there... if this is what we
• 40:20
  think it is,
• 40:20
  which,
• 40:20
  is it's a family from Singapore coming to Toronto for work in
• 40:25
  the finance industry and they want someone to help get them,
• 40:28
  you know,
• 40:28
  up to
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: speed with North American culture and golf and all of that stuff.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: their ideal candidate is back in Singapore if I'm being honest.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: know.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that they're looking I don't think looking in Toronto
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: is the right thing.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's someone who maybe went to school in Singapore,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: someone by Right.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And who did their finance degree in Singapore or whatever
• 40:51
  and is there...
• 40:52
  that they can bring with them to Toronto who has experience.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: they want experience with North American culture.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you won't find
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: that at a university in Singapore.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you have tons of people with that
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: experience, right?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: People who maybe have gone back and forth their entire lives.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, it makes me feel as though potentially they're barking up the wrong
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: tree and they should be looking at finding their client or their
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: candidate in Singapore and just bringing them.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the challenges of like
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: visa and stuff might actually be less.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, I'm not sure, but that was just a
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: thought that occurred to me about that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: You would probably be able to
• 41:31
  find people in Singapore or if not in Singapore,
• 41:34
  in other...
• 41:35
  kind of,
• 41:35
  countries in
• 41:36
  the Southeast Asian Rim that are in there,
• 41:37
  that are kind of the same thing.
• 41:38
  Like you could probably get somebody in Hong Kong who's
• 41:43
  familiar with North
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: American culture, you probably find a Canadian in Hong Kong and be like,
• 41:47
  "Hey,
• 41:47
  you know,
• 41:47
  do you want to come with us to Toronto for six months of the
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: year?"
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is exactly what I mean.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: like a
• 41:53
  Canadian who who lives abroad and then maybe wants that
• 41:55
  opportunity to travel
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: back and forth on someone else's dime.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like great opportunity.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely
• 42:00
  recommend that they hit up universities and alumni networks and
• 42:03
  things like
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, on both sides of the planet for this
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: job.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Worst case scenario, just you
• 42:10
  know,
• 42:10
  pay your assistant to go hang out at like the pro shop and try
• 42:12
  and poach
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: some people.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I think
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: that means we can consider this post roasted.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you all next week.