Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / You Don't Have to Attend Every Argument

Transcript

You Don't Have to Attend Every Argument · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Happy Families podcast. The kids just
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: they love to invite us into their stuff, their big arguments,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: their challenges, all the awkward, annoying difficulties, and all too
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: often most of the time, we are more than happy
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to step into their mess because we want to fix things,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we want to get things right, we want to correct them,
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  Speaker 1: we want to make it all better. But I don't
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  Speaker 1: think we should. In fact, I think we should often
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: do the opposite. I'm a big believer, a really big
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  Speaker 1: believer in doing precisely and exactly the opposite to what
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  Speaker 1: we often want to do as parents, because we get
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: better outcomes. How does that work? Why would I say it?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: After the break, we talk about how we don't have
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  Speaker 1: to accept every invitation our children give us. Stay with us.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Solutions every single day. It's Australia's most downloaded parenting podcasts.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: We are and Kylie calls the parents of six children
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: who have invited us. Kylie into more arguments than I
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  Speaker 1: can count, and we keep taking the bait again and
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  Speaker 1: again and again. I wrote something recently I want to
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  Speaker 1: share it with you. Interrupt me and discuss as needed,
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  Speaker 1: but I think that this is a really nice setup
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  Speaker 1: for the conversation today. A few nights ago, I wrote
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: one of my children, what of our children invited me
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  Speaker 1: to an argument? It wasn't a formal invitation with a
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  Speaker 1: calligraphy written card in an envelope, far more informal. She
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  Speaker 1: started it with a sharp tongue, a rude comment. She
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  Speaker 1: was ready and raring to go, and I almost accepted
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  Speaker 1: the invitation. Let's go with the two words on the
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  Speaker 1: tip of my tongue. Kids are experts at inviting us
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  Speaker 1: into conflict.
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  Speaker 2: And the challenge is doesn't it just feel good to
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  Speaker 2: let go sometimes? Do not have to be in control
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  Speaker 2: of every moment?
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  Speaker 1: Do you mean like to let go? Just yell? And
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: yes it does. You've just reminded me of a really
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  Speaker 1: great quote that I use in one of my parenting presentations.
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  Speaker 1: I've got a presentation that's called the Screaming Spiral, and
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  Speaker 1: in there there's I have a big discussion about anger
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  Speaker 1: and how anger works, and like anger is actually deliciously
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  Speaker 1: what's the word tasty? Would that be the right word?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? It was literally having a conversation with a handful
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  Speaker 2: of parents the other night, and one of them said
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  Speaker 2: to me, She said, but doesn't it just feel good
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  Speaker 2: to get angry? Yeah, every now and again, it's just
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  Speaker 2: so nice to let it go and just have a
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  Speaker 2: good screen.
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  Speaker 1: This is the quote from Frederick Buchner. He said, of
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  Speaker 1: the seven Deadly sins, anger is possibly the most fun.
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  Speaker 1: To lick your wounds, to smack your lips over grievances
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  Speaker 1: long past, to roll over your tongue, the prospect of
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  Speaker 1: bitter confrontations still to come, to savor to the last
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  Speaker 1: tooths some morsel, both the pain and you are given
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  Speaker 1: and the pain you are giving back. In many ways,
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  Speaker 1: it is a feast fit for a king. A great quote.
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  Speaker 1: I should use that in an article sometime. That's a
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  Speaker 1: really good one. And so you're right. The problem is
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  Speaker 1: we say this on the pot all the time, and
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  Speaker 1: we need this reminder constantly. High emotions, it was low intelligence.
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  Speaker 1: I've in an interview recently about the Boys Book, and
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  Speaker 1: I said to somebody, you can't lecture your child. You
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: can't lecture your son into being a better man. You
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: can only love him into being a better man.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and as we're talking, I'm thinking, I don't think
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  Speaker 2: i've ever said anything in anger and come away and
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  Speaker 2: given myself a pat on the back.
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  Speaker 1: I nailed it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It feels really good in the moment, and afterwards there's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: just all of that self loathing and berating that I
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: wish I could have just kept my mouth shut. I
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: wish I could have just said things differently.
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  Speaker 1: But the thing is, they roll their eyes at you,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: or they slammed the door, or they stop their feet,
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  Speaker 1: or they just say you're the most unfair parent ever,
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  Speaker 1: I hate you. They say that sort of stuff to you,
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  Speaker 1: and our instinct, especially since we're tired and we're overstretched
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  Speaker 1: and we're just kind of done with it, which is
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  Speaker 1: like most of the time, is to just accept the
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  Speaker 1: invitation into the argument, to say, let's go, that's what
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  Speaker 1: you really think. Let me say all the stuff that
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  Speaker 1: I've been waiting to say to you as well. I
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  Speaker 1: remember one time I lost it at my mom as
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  Speaker 1: a teenager, and she asked me to do something, hang
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  Speaker 1: out the washing, I think, and I'm like, I'm always
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: hanging out the washing for you always asked me to do.
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  Speaker 1: This is not fair, And I went off and Mum
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  Speaker 1: just turned herself inside out as she told me about
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  Speaker 1: all the things that she does for me, like who's
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  Speaker 1: the giver? Who's the taker? Here? And it always stuck
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  Speaker 1: with me. But I can't imagine that she walked away
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  Speaker 1: from it going I got that right, I've really taught
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  Speaker 1: him a lesson, Like that was so right?
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  Speaker 2: So what did you say? Next?
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  Speaker 1: Well, after break, let's talk about the solution. How do
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  Speaker 1: we politely refuse the invitation to the argument? How do
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  Speaker 1: we let our children know that we do not have
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: to attend every argument that we're invited to.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: That's next.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: We're back. This is The Happy Family's podcast. Thanks so
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: much for listening. If you're finding the podcast helpful, please
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: share it with a friend and neighbor, maybe your sister
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: in law who's having a hard time with her kids.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it's about sisters in law, but
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  Speaker 1: they could always do with this podcast. So kids invite
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  Speaker 1: you to an argument, you can actually RSV I like it.
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  Speaker 1: You can just take a rain check.
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  Speaker 2: But as you're saying that, I'm also thinking, yeah, but
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  Speaker 2: how do I do that?
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  Speaker 1: That's called self regulation?
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  Speaker 2: How do I do that?
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  Speaker 1: So this is what I did, and it felt amazing,
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  Speaker 1: And I wrote about this in the same article that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I was writing. What I basically did was I looked
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  Speaker 1: at our daughter with soft eyes. That is absolutely necessary,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: soft eyes. And then I very quietly said.
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  Speaker 2: Do you practice soft eyes? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: I do, Yeah, often when I'm looking at you. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And I just said, we'll chat about this later. And
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  Speaker 1: I said it really kindly, really softly, really clearly, affirmatively,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: there's no arguments here. We'll chat about this later. And
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  Speaker 1: as I turn and walked away, she was seething. She
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: was ready for the argument she wanted to fight. There
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: was no self righteousness about it. It wasn't like a
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  Speaker 1: smug response. I just looked at her and quietly said,
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  Speaker 1: I love you, kiddo, just a quiet reassurance. Things aren't great,
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  Speaker 1: but we've got this.
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  Speaker 2: It's amazing how quickly you can diffuse a situation when
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: you don't add fuel to the fire.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's it. A fight fire with fire, whole
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  Speaker 1: earth get scorched. So don't add fire to the fire.
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  Speaker 1: Let's put the fire out instead. And the thing about problems,
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  Speaker 1: I've said this on the podcast before. If they're serious,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: they're still going to be here tomorrow. You can come
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  Speaker 1: back to the problem when the temperature has dropped and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: both of you are in a better place to talk.
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  Speaker 1: And if it's not that big of a problem, you
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: say I love you, You walk away. You let your
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: child know we'll talk about this later, but you might
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: get to later and realize.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't even talk about it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't need to address this. It was a small,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in the moment thing, which again highlights just how unnecessary
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: it is to attend every argument we're invited to, because
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  Speaker 1: so many of them really don't matter. The invitation is
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  Speaker 1: not compulsory. You don't have to RSVP.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yes. So I've had a handful of friends come to
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  Speaker 2: me and say that when they've been in that situation
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  Speaker 2: and they've done exactly what you've said. The child in
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  Speaker 2: question just wants a fight.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, we've been there.
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  Speaker 2: They just want to get this off their chest. And
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  Speaker 2: no matter what they do, the child follows them and
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  Speaker 2: screams and yells and says all kinds of things. How
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  Speaker 2: do you get to a point where you've diffused it
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  Speaker 2: enough that you can both kind of, you know, go
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  Speaker 2: back to your corners.
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  Speaker 1: I guess whenever I hear a question like this, I'm
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  Speaker 1: reminded of the model Stephen Covey came up with in
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  Speaker 1: his book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I
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  Speaker 1: know that he's leveraged this from other places and really
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  Speaker 1: kind of turn it into something bigger than it originally was.
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  Speaker 1: He's basically arguing that there's a stimulus and there's a response,
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  Speaker 1: and in between the stimulus and the response, there is
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  Speaker 1: the freedom to choose. And we have these four unique
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  Speaker 1: human endowments or gifts that allow us to creatively find
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  Speaker 1: ways to choose our response without having to simply react
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  Speaker 1: and snap back. Like if you tease a dog, its
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  Speaker 1: instant reaction is to maybe snap at you. But as humans,
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  Speaker 1: we have these four capacities that dogs don't have. The
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  Speaker 1: first one is self awareness. We can be aware that
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  Speaker 1: we're starting to get a bit hot onto the colar,
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  Speaker 1: that it's started to get us a bit steamed up.
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  Speaker 1: The second one is imagination. We can start to think
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  Speaker 1: of all the different ways that we could respond to
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  Speaker 1: this pesky invitation that doesn't seem to want to go,
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  Speaker 1: Like this child is now nagging at us, They're pulling
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  Speaker 1: on our legs, they're not letting us get away, so
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  Speaker 1: that we can get the space that we need and
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  Speaker 1: our imagination can take us everywhere from the flying karate
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  Speaker 1: kick to the sternum, which of course I would never
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  Speaker 1: encourage because we don't encourage violence in any way, shape
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  Speaker 1: or form, but our imagination might still take us there
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  Speaker 1: through to the different ways that we can engage with
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  Speaker 1: them or get away from them in order to achieve
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  Speaker 1: a better outcome. The third unique human capacity is that
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  Speaker 1: we have conscience. We have the ability to work out
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  Speaker 1: what right is and what wrong is, which is why
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  Speaker 1: if our imagination, if our self awareness makes us go,
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  Speaker 1: oh yeah, I'm starting to get really steamed up and
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  Speaker 1: this is annoying me, and our imagination says flying karate kick,
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  Speaker 1: our conscience steps in and says that's not going to work.
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  Speaker 1: That's not the right thing to do. And our fourth
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  Speaker 1: thing is independent will or agency. That is, we have
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  Speaker 1: the capacity to make up our mind how we will
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  Speaker 1: res bond, and by making the space between the stimulus
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  Speaker 1: and the response larger, we make better decisions. I've spoken
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  Speaker 1: to so many parents who say, I just imagine justin
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that you're in the room watching me, and I'm always
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  Speaker 1: a better parent as a result, which makes me feel
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  Speaker 1: really bad, like maybe I'm some harsh person and frowning
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: at people in the corner. But the idea basically is,
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  Speaker 1: when you've got anoy.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: It, I don't think it matters who's in the room now.
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  Speaker 1: It could be anyone.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just when somebody else is there, you kind
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  Speaker 2: of are on your best behavior. You're trying the hardest
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: to put your best foot forward.
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  Speaker 1: More than that, though, you slow it down, you think differently.
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  Speaker 1: And so the simple response that I would have to
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  Speaker 1: a parent who's saying that, and I know exactly who
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  Speaker 1: you're talking about. We've experienced some of those conversations is
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  Speaker 1: I just slow it down. And literally, I've done this
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: with our kids. I look at my child with all
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the kindness and softness in the world and say, you're
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: really upset about this, and you really want to have
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: this conversation now, don't you? And they say yes, And
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I'll say, high emotions, low intelligence. Right now, you're steamed up.
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  Speaker 1: We're not going to get a good outcome here. So
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  Speaker 1: let's just go to our corners. Let's take a breather,
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  Speaker 1: let's do what we need to do, and we can
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  Speaker 1: chat about it in ten minutes, or we can chat
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: about it tonight, or we can chat about it tomorrow
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: over a milkshake. Let's give it some space and then
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: you breathe again. Will that work with every child every time? No?
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: But I reckon it'll work with ninety five to ninety
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  Speaker 1: nine percent of kids in most cases.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So I might be the only one, but I'm eager
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: to know how this confrontation that you managed to curb ended.
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  Speaker 1: She let me walk away and went to her.
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  Speaker 2: Room in a she mumble under her breath.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was her next invitation back in because she
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: likes to have the last word. That was her saying,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: if you're really serious, come on, let's do it. And
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I just let it go. So she entered her room
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and she sorted herself out whatever way. We never talked
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: about it again because it was just one of those silly,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: little minor irritations and she got over it and that
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  Speaker 1: was that. And if we had needed to talk about
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: it again, I probably would have said something like, hey,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: you know that thing that happened last night? We can't
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: just check in? Are we okay? Is there anything we
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: need to talk about? She'd probably say no, we're fine
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  Speaker 1: and it's okay. Next time it happens, how can we
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: do it better? That would have been it. People keep
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: on saying, well, kids need discipline. Discipline means teaching and guiding, instructing,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: and I think that that's the best way to help
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: them is to give them time to calm down, let
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: them know that we love them, and then solved for
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: solutions when everyone's calm. So you don't need to attend
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: every argument you're invited to. It's a non compulsory invitation.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: They happy family, Just say no, Just say no. The
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Have Your Family podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mimahammont's provides our additional admin support. For more
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: info to make your family happy, I find it at
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot a