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A Closer Look At Impact Investing · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
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  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to bring
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  Speaker 1: in Mayo Engelstein right now, CEO of Open Road Alliance.
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  Speaker 1: It's a philanthropic organization in an area that we've been
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: covering a little bit more lately, and I just find
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  Speaker 1: absolutely fastening impact investing. Maya, thanks so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 1: UM talk to us first about the difference between impact
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  Speaker 1: investing and e s G investing, Right, UM, so E
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  Speaker 1: s G Environmental Social Governance criteria is really it's a
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  Speaker 1: set of standards, right, It's a criteria impact investing. I
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  Speaker 1: think of it is really more about an investment thesis
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  Speaker 1: for investment strategy, and a good way to think about
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  Speaker 1: it is to kind of bring it into the conceptual
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  Speaker 1: and just realize that every investment that ever has been
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  Speaker 1: made in the history of investing has actually had an
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  Speaker 1: impact on the world that could be environmental, could be social,
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  Speaker 1: and that impact could be negative, positive, or neutral. Until recently, though,
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  Speaker 1: we just never bothered to notice or take into account
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  Speaker 1: in our investment decision making whether that impact was positive, negative,
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  Speaker 1: for neutral, and what we as an investor wanted to
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  Speaker 1: get out of it. So E s G. I think
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  Speaker 1: of it if you think about it on that continuum
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  Speaker 1: of negative to positive impact. E s G is really
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  Speaker 1: a set of criteria that helps us avoid doing harm,
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  Speaker 1: that make sure that the impacts of our investment are
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  Speaker 1: not on the negative side. Impact investing, however, is really
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  Speaker 1: a strategy that says, I don't just want to avoid harm,
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  Speaker 1: I really want to pursue an investment strategy that is
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  Speaker 1: proactively and intentionally prioritizing being on the path to end
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  Speaker 1: of that spectrum. My, can you give us an example
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  Speaker 1: of maybe a type or an actual investment that you
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  Speaker 1: guys made that has been successful for you. Yes, UM,
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  Speaker 1: So Open Road Alliance. The primary area of impact investing
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  Speaker 1: that we're engaged in is in debt. So we want
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  Speaker 1: a force short term bridge lung fund primarily supporting businesses
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  Speaker 1: in the emerging in emerging markets. UM, that's really designed
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  Speaker 1: to help businesses that are at an inflection point of
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  Speaker 1: growth and scale and for us that we support a
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  Speaker 1: variety of impact areas UM, so everything from climate change
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  Speaker 1: to healthcare UM to gender, gender equity and human rights UM.
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  Speaker 1: And an example of somebody that we help with our
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  Speaker 1: investment thesis around this UM would be in the renewable
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  Speaker 1: energy space, where the renewable energy, particularly in emergency markets
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  Speaker 1: is of course growing and growing and growing, but they're
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  Speaker 1: still subject to the same market inefficiencies UM as the
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  Speaker 1: rest of the market. So, for example, we supported Hubco
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  Speaker 1: Power UM when they were entering their series raise and
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  Speaker 1: it was a m at the time, the largest series
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  Speaker 1: raised for a renewable energy company in East Africa as
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  Speaker 1: twenty million dollar raise UM, but they needed five hundred
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in order to get to close UM and
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  Speaker 1: we provided that five thousand dollar loan. They got to close,
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  Speaker 1: they were able to see the massive expansion UM and
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  Speaker 1: of course the impact in a company like that is
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  Speaker 1: baked in UM just given the nature of what they're doing.
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  Speaker 1: And so how do you actually define success for you?
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  Speaker 1: Is it returns or is it uh, you know, change,
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  Speaker 1: It's both, it's both. So we actually think about certainly
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  Speaker 1: the financial terms. We're a lender, and we are, you know,
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  Speaker 1: a lender that wants to have the same financial baseline
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  Speaker 1: as other lenders. We want to need to break even,
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  Speaker 1: we need to meet it. Are in I r R
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  Speaker 1: are open MOAD Impact Fund. We do service third party assets,
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  Speaker 1: we have assets of her management, So we certainly have
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  Speaker 1: to meet all of those fiduciary responsibilities. But what's different
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  Speaker 1: about our investors is, of course they want to go
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  Speaker 1: above and beyond that. They're not looking for maximum profits,
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  Speaker 1: they are looking for maximum impact in the areas that
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  Speaker 1: where they're investing. So that really is where we're gonna
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  Speaker 1: where we go to to look for in terms of
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  Speaker 1: you know, what is what is happening because of this investment.
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  Speaker 1: How many kilowatts of clean energy are coming online? How
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  Speaker 1: many more customers who didn't have access to electricity previously
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  Speaker 1: now have access to electricity because of this investment. So
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  Speaker 1: my kind of going forward give us a sense of
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  Speaker 1: where you think the opportunities are going to be for
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  Speaker 1: impact investing. Where what areas are you guys are going
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  Speaker 1: to be looking at. We're gonna be looking in a
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  Speaker 1: lot of areas. I do think, you know a game
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  Speaker 1: climate is just a really obvious one and a really
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  Speaker 1: big one. Um And but I have to say, you know,
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  Speaker 1: my sense is really the future. When people asked about
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  Speaker 1: the future of impact investing, my first sense is the
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  Speaker 1: future of impact investing isn't impact investing, It's just investing.
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  Speaker 1: Because we have learned over the years, and especially in
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  Speaker 1: these past couple of years between COVID and inequity and
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  Speaker 1: everything that has been happening in our country and around
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  Speaker 1: the world, that you know, this traditional system of making
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  Speaker 1: investments without being aware of the impact that they're having
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  Speaker 1: hasn't really worked out for us. And you know, you
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  Speaker 1: only have to look to of course Business round Table
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  Speaker 1: and Black Rock and you know, other actors in the
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  Speaker 1: main field. The convergence of impact and investing it's on
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  Speaker 1: a collision course. And I don't think that in ten
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  Speaker 1: years time there's actually going to be any distinction between
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  Speaker 1: what today we're calling impact investing and what is called investing.
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  Speaker 1: It's just all gonna be the same thing. Well, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I was talking with a Leam Ramtula from Developing World
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  Speaker 1: Market recently and I was thinking the distinction I would
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  Speaker 1: make isn't between impact investing in E s G. But
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  Speaker 1: really between impact investing and charity, I would rather do
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  Speaker 1: impact investing. If I can make a difference in someone's
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  Speaker 1: live LIFs and UM, then just donate money. It makes
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  Speaker 1: more sense absolutely, And if you're looking at it from
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  Speaker 1: the charity and of the perspective, there is a very
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  Speaker 1: clear economic argument to be made. Write a grand charity.
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  Speaker 1: It's a guaranteed loss, guaranteed zero percent return. Impact investing
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  Speaker 1: from an impact traditional charity perspective has huge leverage building
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  Speaker 1: because you automatically have that opportunity to capital for more impact. Hey, Maya,
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Maya Winkelstein, CEO
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  Speaker 1: of Open Road Alliance, will have more coming up. This
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  Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. Now let's bring in Jason Pride. He is
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  Speaker 1: chief investment officer of Private Wealth over Glen me They
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  Speaker 1: have forty billion dollars a little more than four any
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars of assets under management out of Philadelphia. Jason,
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  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Well to be on
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  Speaker 1: with you guys. Let's talk about UM, the peak growth narrative,
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  Speaker 1: and it's one that it seems like market participants are
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  Speaker 1: convinced about and nonetheless UM they continue for the most
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  Speaker 1: part to bid up stocks. Okay, right now we're down
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: a little bit, but we um continue to bump up
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: against new record highs. What's your view, So we might
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: have a little bit of an opinion here. We think
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  Speaker 1: that the peak growth narrative is Look, it's it's in
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  Speaker 1: one way it's a fact, and the other way it
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  Speaker 1: actually doesn't matter that much to investors. And here's the
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  Speaker 1: reason why. Peak growth comes about from from a realization
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  Speaker 1: or a reality that when you're growing up of a
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  Speaker 1: low base that that occurred during the previous recession, your
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  Speaker 1: growth rate is going to hit levels that you just
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  Speaker 1: don't see during the regular portion of the cycle. You
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  Speaker 1: hit those peak growth levels, and then one you annualize
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  Speaker 1: past that low base, you actually back off from those levels.
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  Speaker 1: This happens every single time we are coming out of
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  Speaker 1: a recession. It is a very regular occurring thing and
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  Speaker 1: something that actually historically doesn't matter to markets once you
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  Speaker 1: get past. And the reason for that is once you
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  Speaker 1: settle back down from these these high growth rates coming
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  Speaker 1: off the low base, you settle into a sustainable growth
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  Speaker 1: rate that ends up being acceptable for investors. All of
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  Speaker 1: the past recovery cycles we've been through have seen peak growth.
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  Speaker 1: We've seen the market through move right past peak growth
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  Speaker 1: and realize that behind peak growth is an underlying base
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  Speaker 1: of growth that ends up being acceptable to them because
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  Speaker 1: it ends up being in the middle of an ongoing
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  Speaker 1: economic expansion. We don't expect this period to be any
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  Speaker 1: different than that, all right, given that background, Jason, where
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  Speaker 1: are you, folks at Glenn Meat, Are you positioning your
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: equity portfolio is more for kind of a reopening cyclical
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  Speaker 1: trade or are you, like a lot of folks sticking
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  Speaker 1: with those big top line stories, whether it's an Apple
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  Speaker 1: or an Amazon or something along those lines. Look, I
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  Speaker 1: see it's actually a mix of those those two things.
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  Speaker 1: One thing is is we are not in the full
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  Speaker 1: force recovery at this point in time. We are when
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  Speaker 1: year past it, we are entering into the kind of
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  Speaker 1: like the ongoing expansion period. Having said that, there's a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more gas in the tank on on the
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  Speaker 1: recovery um. There are portions of their market that are
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  Speaker 1: not fully back to previous lowest, portions of the economy
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  Speaker 1: that are not fully back to the previous levels. We
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  Speaker 1: continue to face the COVID pandemical a little bit, and
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  Speaker 1: that's holding back certain parts of the economy. So we
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  Speaker 1: think there's actually a little bit left in the reopening trade.
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  Speaker 1: So I would say on the whole we're pretty balanced
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  Speaker 1: between the two aspects. Would maybe a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: a tilt, a very marginal tilt towards the reopening trade
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: because there's a little bit more left in the in
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  Speaker 1: the tank there for us as we go through the
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  Speaker 1: next I would say six to twelve months aread. I
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  Speaker 1: think I would also underline that that what seems to
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  Speaker 1: be coming out of Washington right now with the the
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  Speaker 1: upcoming um UH Infrastructure and Reconciliation Bill, is likely going
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  Speaker 1: to be helpful for those more reopen oriented traded industrial cyclicals,
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  Speaker 1: domestically oriented companies than the large global multinationals. It seems
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  Speaker 1: to be a little bit more punitive to the large
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  Speaker 1: global multinationals. On the tech side. How much help do
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: you expect the industrials, How much fiscal help do you expect? Well,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a pretty big bill. I think we're
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: looking at mainly from the tech side. Um they peered
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: back some of their expectations on how they're going to
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: be applying the global intangeable income taxes and lifted the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: expectation for base statutory corporate tax rates, but still the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: bigger multinational tech players are gonna get harder, hit harder
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  Speaker 1: than the more domestically oriented industrial play. And look, it's
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: an infrastructure spend. At least a good portion of it,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: seven billion dollars in infrastructure oriented spending is going to
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  Speaker 1: be going through and that should benefit UM cyclical industrials
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  Speaker 1: more than it does the big tech place. How do
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you guys think about valuation here in this market, Jason?
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  Speaker 1: A lot of folks are saying, you know, even with
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  Speaker 1: the ten yield tent tenure yielding in at one point
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: three roughly, boy, this is an expensive market. How concerned
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: are you about that? And we we tend to agree
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: with that. Even when you adjust for interst rate short
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: term and long term interest rates, equities on a global
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: basis are sitting in like in the eightieth percentile range
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of valuation. So on the high side, domestic stocks are
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: actually sitting above the nine percentile, with the growth oriented
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: place UM sitting actually closer like seven PERCENTIUL so kind
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: of nosably territoryile and above tends the result in red
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: used for returns over the next one three and five years.
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  Speaker 1: Eightieth percentile does it though, which is pretty interesting. The
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: note and what that what that conveys is actually there's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: not really everything in the market is overvalued. It's actually
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: more most concentrated those large growth names. When you look
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: at large value, it's more reasonable. When you get down
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: the small it's more reasonable when you look abroad, International, APTA.
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  Speaker 1: It was some of the better areas that we think
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: set out there actually set on in Asia where look
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: they've they've been hit for reasons, but they are the
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: most attractive areas out there in the global marketplace. All right, Jason,
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for your perspective in your comments.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Jason pride ce io of Private Wealth for Glenn Mead.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: They are based in the town of Brotherly Love. That's Philadelphia, Pa. Well,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: we always love to talk M and A deals, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: there's a big one in the text base and it
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: involves a company that has got a product called mail
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Chimp into it. It's going to acquire email market and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: mail Chimp for twelve billion dollars. I don't know where
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: to go with this, but let's start with our leader
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: in all things tech that's on a rag running. He's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: a Senior Software and I T services animals for Bloomberg
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Intelligence on I know into it. Okay, application software company
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: buying some more software. What is a mail Chimp and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: why is it worth twelve billion dollars? It's a good one, Paul,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: if you look at it. Everybody in the software space
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: wants to be like Salesforce. They want to go by,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: go out and buy other software assets so that they
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: can sell in then got installed base. And that's exactly
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: what in chet is doing. Mail Chimp is an email
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: marketing software company. So you know, if you want to um,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, send me spam every day about you know,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: some kind of product that you have. You know, you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: use one of these software products. I wonder what the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: name comes from, is it uh? Is there a history
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: of monkeys delivering mail? Or I have no idea, but
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: but hands down, if you think about it right now,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: how are people reaching out you. Nobody's mailing you pamphlets
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and trying to get you to buy some stuff. If
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: you have a large installed base of customers that already
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: use your product, this is the best way for you
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to you know, sell into another thing that they will
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: buy from you and keep on increasing your recurring revenue
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: from that customer piece, and everybody wants to target the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: SNB market right now. So, Matt, I don't know if
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you know this, but whenever I see an M and
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: A trade go across the Bloomberg terminal, the first thing
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I do is hit M A go Well, then I
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: go to look at the advisors, what investment banks are
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: working on this deal and for the seller here for
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: mail Chimp, Frank Quatrone and Catalyst still doing big, big
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: deals in tech. Just one of the all time grades
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in technology investment banking on a rug. So what's really
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: you know, talk to us about into it? Here, here's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the company. I got a hundred and fifty billion dollar
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: market cap. Most people, including me, don't really know much
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: about it. Talk us about this company and kind of
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: where they're growing. Uh, what's behind this company? Since you
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: look at it, I mean, they are the the you
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: know everything tax, turbo tax and then they that's really
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: their bread and potter. But just like it is for
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: any other even large installed based software company. You know,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: whether that's a derby, whether that's salesforce, whether that's into it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Right now you have to figure out how can I
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: sell another product? To my customer base. And that really
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: is the game here. You know, a value investor would
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: have said, why don't you just go out and buy
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: your stock every you know, every every year and use
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the free cast for that. But Salesforce has shown that
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: buying a lot more products it does help in the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: long run. It helps in customer retention, your turn rate
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: goes down, and then you can, you know, increase prices
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: when you bundle these things, and that's what the CEO
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: is doing. They bought a company called credit Karma a
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: little while ago for seven billion dollars and this is
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: you know, in the same string of acquisitions. This is
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a can pick one alright, So what's what's next? Then?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I guess is there are they looking for pretty much
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: anything that they can fit into And is finance just
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: super easy right now? I think finance is super easy
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: right now. And for all of these software companies, what
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: they're looking at is what is their niche and market
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: And for introit it is the SMB market. So whenever
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you see an economy, uh, you know, rebound, you see
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the number of small businesses go up, and this is
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: where the sweet spot is for Inteuit. They want to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: be able to not just do the tax software for
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: these companies. They want to sell additional products. And now
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: whether this is you know, let's say right now they're
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: using email marketing software. You know, potentially they could think
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: about something in advertising, something in the front office customer service,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: something in the back office such as finance. So they
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: can they can figure out many areas where a small
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and medium business would need more software products. You know, Matt,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I just pump put up the camp chart, which is
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: something you like to do for these names. Look at
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the last five years, boy into it's had a compoundent
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and your return about forty a year versus the SMP
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of eight. So it's up another fifty percent this year.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So another great software story. That's all I has. All
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the companies he follows all are up like fifty percent
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a year every year. Well, it's uh, just a fascinating
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: time for these companies. And um, it kind of reminds
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: me a little bit of those days when Frank Quatrone
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: was the prince of Silicon Valance. You know, I mean
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: for a lot of our a lot of bankers today
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: probably are too young to remember Frank Quatrone. Um he
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: got embroiled in some real issues just as he was
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: all vindicated. Well yeah, yeah everything, uh huh okay. So
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: definitely a fascinating, a fascinating story of Frank and of
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: into It and Male Champa Rona. Thanks so much for
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: joining us from Bloomberg Intelligence. Apples holding a product event
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: today one pm. Lost ree time, maybe iPhone thirteen upgrade,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: maybe a watch upgrade. So my question is do I
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: need to run over to the Apple store on Fifth
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Avenue and upgrade all my Apple stuff? Joining us is
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: on on Shriny Boston, Senior Semiconductor on Hardware Analysts. He
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: covers Apple for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us here in the
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. So Anna, what's is there a
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: big deal today or is this just kind of, you know,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: some upgrades on the edges. Look, it's going to be evolutionary, right,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So we've said this. There are a billion iPhone users
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: in the install base and the fact that we upgrade
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: about twenty of them every single year is phenomenal. So
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: what you want to do is produce a product that
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: is revolutionary, that drives that refresher great up what we
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: saw with the revolution last with the iPhone twelve was
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the five G move, and we expect the momentum to continue.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: We think we're not We're nowhere near done yet with
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the super Psyche. So this is a this is an
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: evolutionary story. So the answer to your question is, it
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: would be nice if you went out and upgraded everything
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: as quickly as possible. But we're expecting, you know, fifty
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: one million units in counter quarter three and about eighty
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: nine millions to be sold in counter quarter four. But
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, this is an evolutionary upgrade,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: more five G, more momentum, continuation of teams. But the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Watch is going to be revolutionary, isn't it? Or at
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: least the shape is going to be different. It's bigger, um,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: it should be capable of more? Does it tell time? Look?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: You know you you bring up a good point, Matt Miller.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Is that you brought up the connectivity portion, the halo effect.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You know, iPhone drives, Watch, iPhone, drives, Macmac drives, iPhone, everything,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: drive services. Right, So the connectivity um or the connectivity
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: between all of these products within the closed the walled garden,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: if you may, is the wholly grade for Apple to
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the extent that I can get you upgraded on the watch,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: which hasn't seen that much of an upgrade UM in
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: recent times. Is a is a great advancement. The fact
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that services, despite the epic drama, we can make that stickier.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: It's a high margin business. We can expand that. That's
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: if I can do that consistently, If I'm Apple every
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: single time, a single product every year or every other
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: year in some cases, and increase the attached rate, that's
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: what drives iPhone tripments and services grow. You made a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: second point which was interesting, which not many people are
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: talking about, is the gating factor is supply constraints right UM,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and the chip shortage is here to stay, unfortunately, and
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: the visibility of that through be maybe through first half
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: twenty two. So depending on how strong demand is and
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: where demand comes from and what other products are have
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: high demand, there could be a re percussions even two
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: companies like Apple UM which saw some spill over into
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: iPhone and three Q. Alright, so I'm trying to get
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Tom Kane to upgrade the five G. I'm trying to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: ma can download his movies and his music much faster.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Is five G really a super cycle driver? I'm just
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: not feeling it. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because one
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: of the things that unlike remember the two G two
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: three G conversion was voice to data. Right, three G
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: two four G was huge upgrades from a speed perspective
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: from in the four G in the in the data landscape,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: four G two five G is yes, about more speed,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: but also about a variety of more connections. It's just
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: not about the handset anymore. It's about handset, it's about autos,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: it's about industrial IoT, but the services associated with all
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: of those new expansive products and product categories. We're not
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there yet, okay, So this is going to be a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: long journey, and it's come first to the consumer. And
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: at the margin we're going to be able to see
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: faster speech. We are not there with the true millimeter
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: wave implementation of five G either, so all of this
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: is going to take time. Um, we're not seeing any
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: dramatic art poo increases. So you're going to download your
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: movies faster. You're going to be able to stream when
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you're on the train in New Jersey transit. That's the answer. Paul.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: By the way, I remember hearing all this about three
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: G as well. And and now when I see three
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: G on my phone, It's like a nightmare scenario. It
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't work anymore. We're we're spoiled, Punch. I can
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: tell you that, you know, the even four G might
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: seem slow compared to a year from now with five.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So bottom line on on, I want to go out
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and get myself a new iPhone. Have been waiting and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: waiting and waiting. I want to go and get the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: new watch the seven series seven Watch? Am I going
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to be able to do that next week? UM, particularly
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: on the high end? I think you will be able to. UM.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: One of the things that we've been consistently saying in
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the last year is that the shipments of Apple, particularly
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the iPhone, are gonna skew towards the higher end. All
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: of the camera advancements and the UM lens and enhancements
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and the screen enhancements are going to drive UM the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: performance needs and the storage needs of the iPhone UM
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: much much higher. And as a result, you know that
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: seven dollar iPhone is not going to cut it free, Matt,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: particularly with the pretty pictures of cars that you take.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna you're gonna move towards a high end
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna shell out. Well, I actually pay a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: massive monthly fee in order to get a free the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: free phone of my choice every year. There you go.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So you're already on a good upgrade cadence. Yes, exactly,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and I should have upgraded in April. But I knew
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: if I just wait a little bit longer, just a
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: couple more months, I keep telling myself, a couple more months,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I can get the thirteen on. Thanks so much for
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: joining us on Trinative aust On there from Bloomberg and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: telling thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Matt Miller y three and on Fall Sweeney
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio