Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Episode 9_ How to live as a Christian in a post-Christian era - Pt.

Transcript

Episode 9_ How to live as a Christian in a post-Christian era - Pt. · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome one and all, three and four. Welcome
• 0:16
  back to another podcast, Aspire Podcast. Today we are joined
• 0:22
  by you the listener, and it is me Fulton, me
• 0:27
  Nick and me and Michael and us three. Today our
• 0:30
  subject of discussion, the thing that we're placing on the
• 0:33
  chest in the middle of the room is this question,
• 0:41
  how do we be Christian in an anti Christian age?
• 0:46
  Before we go any further, Okay, calm now, we're gonna
• 0:48
  each define what we mean by an anti Christian age,
• 0:52
  and what we define is what we mean by Christian.
• 0:55
  So to start off the conversation, Nick.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You wanted to keep us well. So it's actually really
• 1:06
  interesting because I just started reading a book it's like
• 1:11
  Pastoral Strategies for an Apostolic Age, and it was this
• 1:16
  finding of the term Christendom and said that we are
• 1:18
  no longer in the Christendom. And the definition it used
• 1:21
  for Christendom was a culture who's like intuitive understanding of
• 1:28
  what things are, the sort of things that people don't
• 1:30
  question is derived from the Christian tradition.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So the mid.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: It before Christianity became legal in Rome under Constantinople, that
• 1:44
  was an Apostolic age where the culture was in a
• 1:49
  sense contrary, maybe not necessarily strictly contrary, but not derived
• 1:53
  from the Christian ideals. But then when it became legal
• 1:59
  and it just kind of you surved all other cultures
• 2:03
  in terms of the ideals of the world. And then
• 2:05
  we lived in a christendom where, not like an ideal
• 2:10
  age of everything is Christian and perfect, because there's still
• 2:13
  flaws and all that, but in an age where the
• 2:17
  things that people just take for granted are Christian truths.
• 2:22
  And then this book was saying that more recently we've
• 2:25
  devolved from that, so we're no longer in a christendom
• 2:30
  where the ideals of the culture are derived from Christian truth,
• 2:35
  but we are in an apostolic age where it's non
• 2:38
  Christian culture and we need to reach out and convert
• 2:45
  minds and hearts, and it has a lot more work
• 2:47
  to convert a mind and hearts that starts from a
• 2:49
  different foundation than a Christian one. So that I'm going
• 2:53
  to use that definition.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I like that definition.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, So I want to say something because I
• 2:59
  think my definition would be pretty similar, but I want
• 3:03
  to go in a little bit of a different direction
• 3:04
  with it, because even before Christianity became legal in the
• 3:09
  Roman Empire. For the majority of human history, society has
• 3:14
  been overwhelmingly religious. So even if it wasn't a Christian
• 3:21
  or a Jewish culture, you had various different pagan cultures
• 3:26
  and stuff that were still religious in the sense where you're.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Worshiping a God.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: And as time has gone on, at least the way
• 3:37
  I see it, we've moved as a culture away from
• 3:40
  worshiping a God and living our lives to worship a
• 3:43
  God and more to worship the self. And so the
• 3:48
  culture that we live in today, for all the same
• 3:51
  reasons that Nick just said, is no longer really a
• 3:54
  Christian culture. I would say even farther than that, it's not.
• 4:03
  It's a culture that almost doesn't even recognize Again, like
• 4:07
  the percentage of people in the United States who are
• 4:09
  atheists now is higher than it's ever been. So it's
• 4:12
  a culture that no longer even recognizes the existence of
• 4:15
  God to an extent. And instead of prioritizing religious things,
• 4:21
  we prioritize like what we want and where we need,
• 4:25
  where we want to go, what we want to consume,
• 4:27
  what we.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Want to say.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: So I really like your definition. I'm trying to just
• 4:34
  like add something new to it. But I think definitely,
• 4:39
  especially kind of what we want to talk about today,
• 4:40
  it's more about what you want than what God wants.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Yep, I see it that same way. There was a
• 4:51
  reading about.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: It kind of does maybe I'm just sorry continue.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: There was a reading the other day and in it Moses.
• 5:06
  It was from Deuteronomy. And so the way that I'm
• 5:11
  sort of realizing it is now the more I never
• 5:14
  really paid attention growing up to how the Bible worked.
• 5:17
  But what I'm realizing is like, Okay, so the Old
• 5:19
  Testament was all Jewish stuff, and then so that had
• 5:24
  like history really far back, and their whole tradition of
• 5:27
  Israel was basically like this kind of anointed group of
• 5:34
  people that have been carrying on this tradition all this time.
• 5:39
  And so from what I've learned through some Orthodox priests
• 5:44
  that I listened to the way that a lot of
• 5:46
  the ancient cultures worked, like obviously had all of these
• 5:51
  gods that they had, and it wasn't in the sense
• 5:54
  of they just chose a god, but they were experiencing
• 5:57
  life and then the things that they would sacrifice themselves
• 6:03
  to with their attention and energy and time, or things
• 6:06
  that had power over them, they would idolize. And so
• 6:10
  that's what an idol would be, is you're just sort
• 6:12
  of giving an icon representation to like some supernatural power.
• 6:18
  And so those powers originally in God's plan were supposed
• 6:21
  to be. This is what I'm sort of feeling. I
• 6:24
  don't know if this is totally accurate, but that the
• 6:27
  angels were all placed with a sort of responsibility to
• 6:32
  uphold the laws of nature, and so like they're kind
• 6:36
  of like the different stars of the sky or the
• 6:39
  ones that like there has to be some being like
• 6:44
  if God makes the sun, I could see him putting
• 6:47
  an angel almost in charge of the sun in a sense,
• 6:50
  to be like a agent, or like the connecting neurons.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I think those have existed. It's like in the hierarchy
• 6:59
  of angels, you know, you've got the seraphim and char
• 7:01
  of them, which are basically just like in God's throne
• 7:04
  room praising him. The seraphim like praising like right at
• 7:08
  his throne, the cheruban bit for the back being like
• 7:10
  the large choir thing. But then like thrones, powers, dominions,
• 7:15
  all those and then these are like the powers of
• 7:18
  the world. So you would think of that as like
• 7:20
  in charge of you know, the sun, or in charge
• 7:23
  of gravity or something like that, right, And it might
• 7:26
  not actually be the case, but like it's it's definitely
• 7:30
  a thing that has been possulated about the angels.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: So that's sort of how I would formulate it. And
• 7:35
  then I think part of when the fall happened and
• 7:39
  nature sort of was no longer perfected but fallen. I
• 7:42
  almost looked that in the way of certain angels that
• 7:44
  were put in charge of these different areas of life
• 7:48
  fell and so there the nature the original fault, not
• 7:52
  the fall of Yes, the original fault. So their nature
• 7:55
  the thing there, nature was then distorted, right. That really interesting,
• 8:00
  So that's kind of how I frame it. And then
• 8:03
  I think those demons now were able to influence and
• 8:07
  affect people to want to worship them. Now it does.
• 8:11
  It's not a perfect correlation because there are sun gods
• 8:14
  and it's like I don't think it's the suns necessarily bad,
• 8:16
  but the son does burn you. I don't know, I
• 8:18
  don't know. But so these principalities are these powers, the angels,
• 8:28
  these different gods that have a source of pull or
• 8:32
  on the earth. The demons will get people to sort
• 8:36
  of will get people to give their attention, their time,
• 8:39
  and their energy. So there'd be all of these rituals
• 8:42
  based around these different powers to give for the people
• 8:46
  to get something in return. And so it's basically, your
• 8:48
  God is whatever you give your attention to in a sense,
• 8:51
  whatever you worship. So the thing that you give the
• 8:54
  most attention to maps out reality for you. And so
• 8:58
  for like all of human hit, the common around the
• 9:02
  world was it was a pagan culture because people would
• 9:05
  find their gods in whatever there was, but it was
• 9:09
  never the true God. And so even in the Bible
• 9:12
  when they say God is the one True God, the
• 9:14
  most high God, they're basically saying, as a way of
• 9:17
  communicating with all of the other pagans, out of all
• 9:20
  of the gods, he is the highest. So there were
• 9:23
  technically there are other gods, because there are other beings
• 9:28
  that you can worship, but there's only one true God. Yeah,
• 9:31
  because all of the other ones are liars. There are
• 9:33
  just demonic.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Idols in the Bible that specifically shows like little g
• 9:38
  God as opposed to the big Genius.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Right, But what was interesting to me was that the
• 9:42
  Bible actually still references that and like points to that
• 9:45
  and says this is the one true God out of
• 9:48
  worship no other gods. It doesn't say, you know, it's
• 9:51
  like still refers to them as gods. So I think
• 9:55
  that that still goes on today. But Israel was supposed
• 9:59
  to be the one that carries this new message that
• 10:00
  there's one true God and that he's got a plan,
• 10:03
  and that the whole world is fallen, and that there
• 10:07
  are demons that are trying to get you to worship
• 10:09
  them and in turn death, destruction, selfishness, all of the vices.
• 10:13
  And so Israel is sort of carrying this little package
• 10:16
  of like the law that God gave us, and so
• 10:19
  that's like the Jewish tradition. And then when Jesus came,
• 10:23
  he said, okay, I'm the fulfillment of the law. And
• 10:26
  so now here is a new way of seeing the world.
• 10:30
  So like if you are a pagan back then the
• 10:33
  thing that you worship lays out your value structure for you.
• 10:38
  So it's like the highest value is appeasing the God.
• 10:40
  So then human life doesn't have any place, virtue doesn't
• 10:43
  have any place unless it appeases the God, and you
• 10:45
  get what you want. And it's sort of like this
• 10:47
  weird it's like a demonic transaction, and so that's what
• 10:54
  I think everybody kind of falls for in general. Okay,
• 10:57
  So then so then when Jesus come, he says, here
• 11:01
  is the new law. And so it's a new way
• 11:04
  of actually seeing the world and what the world really is.
• 11:08
  And it's got things like hope and love and mercy
• 11:12
  and kindness. But those virtues were never things that the
• 11:17
  paganistic world, really like the outside world valued because the
• 11:23
  gods that they worship didn't value them because they weren't
• 11:27
  they were not of them the demonic And so when
• 11:30
  he started sharing all this, it obviously is going to
• 11:34
  start spreading because it's a it's an answer to the
• 11:37
  question of the human heart. So then that's what spreads,
• 11:42
  and then everyone sort of starts to realize that, and
• 11:45
  then we kind of get in power and we help
• 11:46
  spread this message and everybody gets used to this idea
• 11:52
  like the Christian principles of hope and love, but it's
• 11:55
  like it's hope in a creator, you know, it's hope
• 11:59
  been a life after day, and it's mercy on sinners
• 12:02
  those who have done you wrong, but there's divine justice,
• 12:05
  and it's like all of these things that are so
• 12:08
  new to the culture, to like the pagan culture, because
• 12:11
  everything they're surrounded with is completely opposite of that, because
• 12:16
  the source from which they get their map of the
• 12:19
  world is a fallen one. And so as the Christian
• 12:24
  Age spreads, really what it is is a way of
• 12:29
  viewing and perceiving the world. It's like a new way,
• 12:32
  it's like a lens of truth. And so the word
• 12:35
  repent really means to renew your mind, to have a
• 12:39
  new pattern of mind, to turn your face back to God,
• 12:42
  to turn back. So it's not to just say I suck,
• 12:46
  I'm an idiot, d d d da da da da,
• 12:48
  but it's to repent, which means out here in the
• 12:51
  wilderness is nothing. So I turned back to the truth.
• 12:54
  And in that relationship with real reality, you don't need
• 12:59
  the stuff that tears away your soul. And so, like
• 13:02
  when everybody says repent, it really just means turned back
• 13:05
  to the God that's been here throughout history trying to
• 13:09
  restore this broken world. And so the Christian Age, i
• 13:14
  think is when the majority of at least the modern world.
• 13:21
  Obviously there's exceptions throughout throughout the world, but the majority
• 13:24
  of the modern world believes that as a priority. So
• 13:30
  it's like this is the answer, and then everything flows
• 13:33
  from there. It's like the fundamental underlying structure of your values,
• 13:38
  and so that's what we all believe believed in. So
• 13:41
  then when you say that's unjust, we know that that
• 13:44
  fits into the bigger picture of divine justice. But now
• 13:49
  what I think the anti Christian age is the cutting
• 13:52
  out from underneath that fundamental structure. And so now we
• 13:55
  have like the ghosts of those virtues that people still
• 13:58
  hold on to. Hope. But when you really would ask them, okay,
• 14:03
  let's say you don't believe in Jesus, but you know
• 14:05
  there's something about hope, it's like, well, what do you
• 14:07
  really hope for? Like what gives you hope? Because everything
• 14:11
  is going to die? Like I saw a billboard today
• 14:14
  and it said it was like ninety five point five
• 14:18
  Hope with a Beat, And I was like what it
• 14:23
  was like an advertising for a radio channel, but it
• 14:25
  said hope with a beat, as if like music will
• 14:28
  give you hope, right or whatever it is. But I
• 14:31
  was thinking, Okay, I'm kind of going on for a
• 14:35
  little while there.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I switch to think about what is this.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: It's they we've cut out the underlying structure. We have
• 14:44
  the ghosts of the virtues and the Christian values, but
• 14:48
  they don't have any meat if you really push on them,
• 14:51
  and as soon as something big comes, those are all
• 14:54
  going to come tumbling down and we're gonna have nothing,
• 14:57
  because what are people going to hope for if they're
• 15:00
  only placing their hope in things that aren't gonna last.
• 15:03
  So to me, the anti Christian age is a perception
• 15:07
  of the world that doesn't have any stock in truth
• 15:12
  and that ultimately, how do I bring this home? Ultimately
• 15:19
  will leave you empty.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So you say this as like an anti Christian age,
• 15:24
  but from what you were describing it didn't seem like
• 15:27
  an anti Christian but just like a non Christian because
• 15:31
  anti makes me think of something that's like opposed, like
• 15:34
  an anti Christian age would be. You know, it's not
• 15:38
  cultural to be Christian. It's almost like a derogatory thing
• 15:43
  to be in the culture. So do you think that
• 15:48
  we live in an anti Christian age or just like
• 15:50
  a non Christian age? Then Michael can answer this too.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: I think maybe we live in an anti Christian age
• 15:59
  that has.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Sprung up out of a non Christian age. Potentially I
• 16:06
  don't think we live in an anti Christian age yet.
• 16:11
  I think we're maybe like almost there.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: I think we're pretty damn close, especially if Christianity as
• 16:20
  having as being the foundation for actual truth. Like if
• 16:26
  you say that Hope doesn't make any sense about Christianity.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean I would say, basically the justice, the justice
• 16:34
  system is based on every person is a unique individual
• 16:39
  with inalienable rights. So as long as we've got the
• 16:42
  Constitution there, we still are living in a It's we're
• 16:46
  kind of in a post Christian age. It's how I've
• 16:49
  heard it say.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: That's a good way of putting it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So it's like those things are going away, which is
• 16:53
  why people like Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Ben Shapiro, whoever
• 16:57
  it is that are are re are looking back at
• 17:00
  these values and saying, why as this stuff disappears, the
• 17:05
  whole culture is going away. If religion is just an inconsequential,
• 17:09
  just a belief system like Santa Claus, why is it
• 17:13
  going Why is the whole culture destabilizing? And I think
• 17:17
  it's like post Christian would be we no longer put
• 17:22
  stock in our identities as being something fundamental to our being.
• 17:26
  It's more of whatever we want, you know what I'm saying,
• 17:29
  And it's it started with don't tell me how to
• 17:33
  live morally, don't tell me what my identity is. I'm
• 17:35
  not a child of God, don't tell me that. I
• 17:37
  don't want that. And to now it's I don't want biology.
• 17:41
  Don't tell me what it is. And so it's kind
• 17:43
  of like we're slowly now deteriorating back into the paganistic world,
• 17:50
  which I would look at as like a wasteland, because as.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Far as pagans like putting as idols the things of
• 17:57
  this world and alluding them as the greatest wrinning like
• 18:00
  a very specific thing, and your time and effort in that.
• 18:03
  So that's how you say we're in a sense devolving
• 18:06
  back into a paganistic world, right, because a lot of
• 18:09
  people are like, I'm not pagan, I don't believe in
• 18:11
  any sort of God. But then you're like, are you sure,
• 18:15
  because like, if you define this a religion in the
• 18:17
  sense of just like what you hold through faith, a
• 18:21
  lot of people, would, you know, subscribe to the religion
• 18:25
  of science, not the religion of scientology. I don't really
• 18:28
  know what that is, but like the religion of science
• 18:30
  is what so many people do because you know, you
• 18:34
  hear people say it's like, oh, this works because physics
• 18:37
  or this because that do they actually understand what they're
• 18:38
  talking about. No, they're taking on faith what someone else
• 18:42
  has told them, and it makes sense because no one
• 18:46
  else has like said, there's it doesn't work, and there's
• 18:49
  way that we are describing it. It is fairly self cohesive,
• 18:52
  but like we're still take they're still taking it on
• 18:54
  faith because if you don't understand what it is, you know,
• 18:57
  it's like, oh, yeah, we've got general relativity. Yeah, and
• 19:00
  then that explains a lot of things. But it's like
• 19:03
  I don't know this tension of relativity and I've been
• 19:04
  trying to learn it, you know.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what do you think of this? It's almost like.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: It's almost like if you said that you loved words
• 19:16
  and you loved writing, and writing was awesome and it's
• 19:20
  the best thing ever. But we don't need the alphabet
• 19:24
  because the words are great, but they don't make any
• 19:26
  sense without the alphabet. You can't actually have words without
• 19:30
  the letters that built them.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So the idea you're constructing here is that like
• 19:35
  morality or in a sense, the Western culture is derived
• 19:40
  from a foundation of in the ascent with the alphabet.
• 19:45
  With this alphabet would be the truth to the Christian faith.
• 19:49
  And if you look at it, historically, Western culture is
• 19:53
  derived from the Christian faith. And so I would say,
• 19:57
  with what you're saying about like devolving into a pagan society,
• 19:59
  I'm saying I would say, like we've been living in
• 20:03
  a Western culture, but that Western culture has been changing.
• 20:11
  So it's like the culture itself when we think of
• 20:13
  you know, Western culture, Eastern culture, the culture of the
• 20:17
  West is changing in quite a significant way, such that
• 20:22
  in fifty years what we might consider the culture of
• 20:25
  this day is as dissimilar to Western culture as Eastern
• 20:29
  culture is to Western culture. So it's like creating a
• 20:32
  whole new range of what types of culture can derive from.
• 20:39
  But I think we're getting away from the point of
• 20:41
  this audicule. So we've talked a lot about the you know,
• 20:46
  the non Christian age or the anti Christian age, or
• 20:49
  the whatever it is. But now let's get into the
• 20:52
  more hopeful aspect of it, like how to I guess
• 20:56
  there's two main things we want to talk about. The
• 20:58
  first is going to be like what does it mean
• 21:00
  to be a Christian in a non Christian age or
• 21:02
  an anti Christian age, or however you want to define it.
• 21:04
  And then the other one is practical tips and effects.
• 21:08
  So first, what do you think it means to be
• 21:11
  a Christian in this age? Like how would you define
• 21:17
  a Christian? Like how would you be able to look
• 21:18
  at someone and be like, this person is a Christian
• 21:21
  in this non Christian age?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: For a second? Do you have an answer?
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Because I just need to I need to think about
• 21:35
  it for a second, but I don't want to just
• 21:36
  like pause this completely.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Well, listeners can take a second to think about it,
• 21:40
  Well we think about.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: It or do the door of the explore thing. It's like,
• 21:43
  what do you think the answer is leave a comment
• 21:46
  down below.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: See I don't know what.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So I think pretty my gut response is a Christian
• 21:58
  in a post Christian age or in this age is
• 22:02
  one who believes in the truths of the Christian faith,
• 22:06
  but completely So one of the points, one of the
• 22:13
  most interesting things I've heard Jordan Peterson talk about is
• 22:15
  he was with an atheist and she's like, I don't
• 22:18
  believe that there's a God, and he's like, his belief
• 22:23
  is basically he won't define what he thinks God is.
• 22:26
  But his point is to do anything in life, you
• 22:31
  have to have a value structure that you're motivated to
• 22:34
  go towards. So even if you are getting out of bed,
• 22:37
  you are more motivated driven. You value more getting out
• 22:41
  of bed than just staying in bed. And the same
• 22:44
  thing applies to the direction you take to get to
• 22:46
  the store, if you brush your teeth or not, the
• 22:48
  type of food that you're eating. So you're devoting your
• 22:51
  time and energy to in all of these pursuits, and
• 22:56
  they're ranked in a value system. And so everyone has
• 22:59
  that because if you don't, you just don't you want,
• 23:01
  you would not exist, you wouldn't be doing anything. And
• 23:05
  so if you take those to their natural conclusion, you
• 23:10
  are worshiping something at higher and higher levels. And so
• 23:14
  he uses like it's like if you're writing a word,
• 23:19
  you want to see how that word fits into the sentence,
• 23:21
  and then how the sentence fits into the page, and
• 23:23
  then how it fits in the book and the book
• 23:25
  and the library, and then why you're writing the.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Overarching picture that the grand scheme and every smaller piece
• 23:32
  is contributing to the larger hole, right, and so, and
• 23:36
  then he's like, if you are a person writing the book,
• 23:39
  why are you writing it?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: To be intellectual? To be a good citizen, and then
• 23:43
  you want to be a good family member or family member,
• 23:45
  then citizen then and it goes all the way up
• 23:48
  until you're kind of a part of this great nation
• 23:49
  in this nation's part of the world, and it goes
• 23:51
  all the way out. And so the smallest actions you
• 23:54
  do reverberate out, which is why they're so important. And
• 23:57
  so then I've heard like when Bishop Baron talks or something,
• 24:03
  it's like certain people will in a homily that he
• 24:06
  gave will cut their wrists at the altar of Heroin,
• 24:14
  or at the altar of sex, or at the altar
• 24:18
  of what name name the thing that you devote your
• 24:21
  time and energy to. So so I think in your actions,
• 24:30
  that's what you worship. So a Christian in the world
• 24:37
  is somebody that acts in accordance with what they claim,
• 24:41
  which would be in line with the Christian values. And
• 24:45
  so there are a lot of baptized Catholics and baptized
• 24:48
  Christians that aren't Christian and aren't Catholic, you know what
• 24:53
  I mean.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this idea of like I mean Catholic, you have
• 24:58
  a term called practicing Catholic, which is, you know, basically
• 25:00
  doing the bare minimum. To be considered a practicing Catholic
• 25:03
  is very easy, but there's a lot of people that aren't.
• 25:07
  But you're you're going a little strict. And it's just like,
• 25:09
  in order to be a Christian in this Christian aid,
• 25:12
  in this non Christian age, you have to be acting
• 25:17
  in a way that's acting and like believing and your
• 25:21
  intent of acting in a way that correlates with the
• 25:25
  Christian truth. Right, So would you be would you say
• 25:28
  that there's non Christians in the normal definition of the word,
• 25:33
  you know, someone who believes that Christ is the son
• 25:36
  of God. Would you say that there are non Christians
• 25:39
  who are Christians in this non Christian age.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I think Jordan Peterson is a really good example because
• 25:45
  I think he's not he's not a Christian because I
• 25:48
  think that to be Christian is to fully submit yourself
• 25:56
  to the Christians of Christianity and to Christ himself. Jordan
• 26:01
  Peterson is like, he's really interesting with this question, Like
• 26:04
  if people ask him, like does God exist, he says,
• 26:06
  I don't know, Like what do you mean by God?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Whatever?
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: But then his answer to the question is essentially I
• 26:15
  don't know if God exists, but I try my best
• 26:19
  to act like he does. And there's a lot of
• 26:22
  people who say that they believe that God exists, but
• 26:26
  they don't act like he does. And so I mean,
• 26:30
  I think that to be a Christian, like the essence
• 26:33
  of being a Christian is to submit yourself to Christ.
• 26:39
  And so I mean, I don't think you can have
• 26:41
  non Christian Christians, if that's what you're saying, Like, I
• 26:44
  it's just kind of a contradictory thing. But I think
• 26:47
  that there are potentially a lot of non Christians who
• 26:52
  are closer to being true Christians than some people who
• 26:56
  were baptized into the Church, who are closer in terms
• 27:00
  of their moral state, in terms of their motivation, in
• 27:03
  terms of the way that they carry themselves and their priorities.
• 27:07
  They're closer to the truth than people who claim to
• 27:13
  already believe the truth.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Makes sense, because what you're seeming to build up is like,
• 27:18
  in a sense, a hierarchy of what it means to
• 27:20
  be a Christians. Like what you're saying with this hierarchy
• 27:23
  of values, maybe you could think of this as, you know,
• 27:26
  the hierarchy of being a Christian. So, like the very
• 27:28
  basic level is at baptism, you are born into the
• 27:33
  Christian faith, and so in that way you are a Christian.
• 27:36
  If you have been baptized, you are a Christian. But
• 27:42
  in that's in nature. You are a Christian through the
• 27:46
  indelible mark of baptism. But there's also the aspects of
• 27:49
  your choice. And so the next step up would be
• 27:53
  you believe to some extent, like you say, you purport
• 27:58
  that you believe that Christ is the son of God,
• 28:03
  that Christ was born, he died, and rose from the
• 28:07
  dead to save us. So that that is the you know,
• 28:11
  the intellectual understanding of what a Christian is. So you
• 28:14
  have the the the natural understanding of what a Christian
• 28:17
  is that through nature, through a baptism, then you have
• 28:20
  the intellectual understanding of what a Christian is through you know,
• 28:23
  this belief and that. But then you have the like
• 28:26
  I would say, like the truest level of being a
• 28:28
  Christian what we all strive for, and that is to
• 28:32
  live your life fully as you were saying, fully in
• 28:36
  line with Christ, to push and strive towards the Christian
• 28:41
  ideal that what Christ is wanting us to live as
• 28:45
  and so this hierarchy kind of makes sense. And so
• 28:49
  when we're talking about like being a Christian in a
• 28:50
  non Christian age, I don't think we should really discuss
• 28:53
  the like baptism aspect because we're talking about how you
• 28:57
  interact with people, and baptism it's a huge important part.
• 28:59
  It brings a great a lot of sacramental grace to you.
• 29:03
  But in terms of like you're intellectually choosing to approach things,
• 29:08
  then I think it's these these next two levels that
• 29:10
  are what we can really discuss. And so like if
• 29:13
  we talk about a Christian no non Christian age, like
• 29:15
  we can go beyond the the idea of just you know,
• 29:19
  a baptized Christian.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I think I'm trying, Yeah, I'm trying to make a
• 29:23
  distinction between the title of somebody who's a Christian and
• 29:27
  somebody who is following Christ.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: So there's there's an analogy here with Judaism because Judaism
• 29:35
  is a nationality. So like people are born into the
• 29:41
  Jewish faith or born into the Jewish ideas because the
• 29:46
  culture because as a chosen people, that's the idea of
• 29:49
  the Jews is the chosen people, and Judaism is basically
• 29:53
  saying oh, Christ didn't fulfill that, so it's still the
• 29:55
  Chosen people. And so if you're born into that, you're
• 29:57
  part of the Chosen People. But then there's the Jewish faith,
• 30:00
  which is like religious Jews. So there's like secular Jews
• 30:04
  who are not religious, who don't believe in God, but
• 30:07
  there's still Jews and they still claim to be like
• 30:09
  part of the Jewish family. And so it's like, I
• 30:12
  think a very similar idea here where it's like you
• 30:15
  can claim to be part of the Jewish family but
• 30:17
  not be really yes religion.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Now, so there was something that I think sane or
• 30:26
  I'd have forget who it was. I think it was sane,
• 30:27
  and Gustin had this idea though he said an honest
• 30:31
  atheist will have a better well probably like I don't
• 30:35
  know what he said exactly, but it's better to be
• 30:37
  an honest atheist than a dishonest Christian. And so it's
• 30:40
  basically you can have the title and you can do
• 30:43
  the bare minimum. But the reality is is that there's
• 30:47
  not a distinction between your real life, your every day
• 30:50
  the way you exist in your religion. Those are the
• 30:53
  same thing. But it's become so separated and the problem
• 30:57
  is because people don't have the lens that they're supposed
• 31:00
  to have. So then things don't make sense anymore, because
• 31:03
  like when you read the Bible, it doesn't seem to
• 31:05
  apply unless you realize that religion is a formalized is
• 31:13
  just formalized. It's ritualized behavior, but in a formalized way.
• 31:20
  But you already have ritualized behavior, so you already perform
• 31:23
  rituals in service to some something that's not seeable. So
• 31:30
  you get up and you brush your teeth every morning,
• 31:33
  so you're serving a ritual of get up, do this.
• 31:36
  You all have to. We have to drive cars the
• 31:38
  same way. This is what Jonathan Pagio talks about a lot,
• 31:41
  is there's a ritual to the way that we do everything,
• 31:44
  and so it's just embedded on a smaller version, and
• 31:46
  as you go, the sort of collective wisdom is imbued
• 31:52
  into a religion, and then that's what makes it pointed
• 31:55
  towards the right things and sort of keeps you on
• 31:58
  the right direction with all your lower level activities. And
• 32:02
  so my main point that I'm trying to get to
• 32:09
  is that we can't simply stop at I am a
• 32:13
  Christian and we're in a post Christian age because I
• 32:16
  believe in Jesus. The way that I think about it
• 32:19
  is when I hear the word believe, I think like,
• 32:21
  do you be living? Like? Do you believe in this?
• 32:25
  Do you do you be live in it? Do you
• 32:27
  believe in it? Be living?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So that belief of.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Right because you're the way. And this is what I've
• 32:36
  been realizing recently, is like you can say the words,
• 32:39
  but do you really like, are you living the words?
• 32:43
  Because the claims of him. It's like, I don't think
• 32:47
  that our generation really sees the profound situation that we're in,
• 32:54
  where it's like we've had it cushioned, we've had it nice,
• 32:57
  we haven't had to worry about these things. But if
• 33:00
  we would hit a war, and it's like, okay, what
• 33:03
  is stopping my neighbor from eating me or killing me
• 33:06
  or ransacking my house? Just the cops, just the fact
• 33:11
  that there's going to be a consequence for them. But
• 33:13
  the way that the world works is might makes right.
• 33:16
  That's how it actually works. The world is dominated by
• 33:20
  evil spirits, and so when someone comes and says I
• 33:24
  am the actual answer to that, I am the salvation,
• 33:27
  you don't have to be scared of death. That is
• 33:30
  like great news for the people that were in Rwanda
• 33:32
  during the genocide, you know what I'm saying. And so
• 33:37
  I think what was so hard for me to wrap
• 33:38
  my mind around is I can grow up as a
• 33:40
  Catholic or a Christian and I can be learning and
• 33:42
  studying it and I can have it all in my
• 33:44
  head and stuff. But it's like, this is either real
• 33:48
  or this is not real, and so how can I
• 33:52
  experience this as being real? How do I actually follow
• 33:55
  Christ who said, here's ten truth that you McDonald's is
• 34:01
  serving a mcdouble, and there's you know, you can go
• 34:06
  to the corner store and watch a movie, or you
• 34:08
  can here's scientology, here's all of this stuff. These are
• 34:12
  all truths. Everything here is truth. But he says I
• 34:15
  am the truth, and so he is the highest one.
• 34:19
  He's the highest truth. And that's where I think I
• 34:22
  didn't really understand it. Is like, okay, I could just adopt,
• 34:25
  like add this to the other truths. Is he's trying
• 34:27
  to tell us this small truth that there's a mcdouble
• 34:30
  at the McDonald's is answering a question for you. It's
• 34:33
  like I'm hungry, I need something, Okay, McDonald's is giving
• 34:37
  you this, Okay, I can go and give them my money.
• 34:39
  I worked hard for that. I had to drink a
• 34:41
  bunch of water, eat food, get the money to go
• 34:43
  to And so it's all of this sacrificing towards things
• 34:48
  and he's trying to tell us I am the way
• 34:51
  the life, like I am the life that you're looking
• 34:54
  for because everything else is desolate. But we're so covered
• 34:59
  up with how we see things with what we're presented with.
• 35:03
  And that is literally true. I cannot it's been the
• 35:08
  weirdest thing. I mean, it's hearing it is probably not
• 35:11
  the same. But if it's that's really an experience of life,
• 35:15
  that just it's a perception that changes the way that
• 35:17
  the world literally lays itself out.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: No, that makes sense because like you have all of
• 35:23
  these different truths that you can just line up, and
• 35:25
  if you think of Jesus and the Christian faith as
• 35:29
  just another one of those truths as you line up,
• 35:31
  then it's on that same level. And what you're saying is,
• 35:33
  you know, oh, but Jesus is saying he's the highest truth.
• 35:36
  But in that way, you're still like grouping it together
• 35:38
  with all the truths so like when he says I
• 35:41
  am the truth, he's not saying I am like I
• 35:43
  am a truth greater than all the rest. He's saying,
• 35:45
  I am Like the concept of truthness, it is through
• 35:49
  Christ that the truth of these other things come into being. Yes,
• 35:54
  underlying and effusing all of these things that are true
• 35:58
  with their truthness.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: You know what is the alphabet that you used. I
• 36:04
  think that that is actually why you can't get away
• 36:08
  with with like why won't really become a Christian Like
• 36:12
  I'm gonna do this and I'll do this and I'm
• 36:15
  a good person. I'm doing this. And I always was like, okay,
• 36:17
  look if the person is doing the thing and they're
• 36:19
  just trying their best and like they don't really feel comfortable,
• 36:22
  it's like, okay, great, But if you really think about it,
• 36:25
  imagine you are the truth that through all other truths
• 36:28
  that came to be it's because of you, and they
• 36:31
  will not take you. It's like you're not picking God here.
• 36:37
  And that's like reality because there's got to be something
• 36:39
  that everything is connected to and there's only one person
• 36:42
  that is claiming that. And so that's when he says
• 36:46
  things like if you are lukewarm, I will spew you
• 36:48
  out of my mouth. It's like, that's just that's wild.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: But it's God's if if you think about it, and
• 36:58
  you think about the claim the Christianity makes in that sense,
• 37:05
  if you're not like, if you really believe it, you
• 37:09
  will be.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Like you'll be ready to go die for it.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: You're not just gonna be like you know, oh, it's
• 37:17
  like it's these are some good ideas, and it's like
• 37:20
  I think that we should all, you know, love each
• 37:22
  other and whatever. But like if you're if you're not
• 37:24
  willing to actually go the extra mile and actually live
• 37:28
  it out, which I think we should probably talk about practically,
• 37:33
  like what does it even look like to live it out?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: But if you're if you really believe it, you will
• 37:37
  live it out.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: I have one last thing to say before we move
• 37:40
  on to the more practical aspects is I think you
• 37:42
  brought this up before, but like Neil de Gras dice
• 37:44
  and has said stuff about the Christian uh faith and
• 37:49
  all that, and he basically says that I think it
• 37:52
  was asking was it Neil, Okay, maybe I don't.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Want to say it. I might remember him.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: It was some someone was basically saying that if this
• 38:00
  is truly what you believe, then why are you not
• 38:05
  like screaming at the top of your lungs proclaiming this
• 38:08
  truth Because the foundations, like this truth that you are
• 38:11
  claiming to be a truth is so foundational, so revolutionary,
• 38:16
  so important and just huge that everything else pales in comparison,
• 38:21
  and like you should put all of your effort forth
• 38:24
  into that, right, And so that is the Christian faith
• 38:27
  to put all of your effort forth because it is
• 38:29
  that truly foundational and perfect thing.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: That is Okay, So that is exactly where I'm trying
• 38:37
  to get because I'm thinking, as far as practical goes,
• 38:42
  why I don't like this is a new thing, at
• 38:47
  least for me where I literally believe it, and I
• 38:51
  did I didn't realize, but I did not believe it
• 38:53
  for the longest time. But I literally am believing it.
• 38:57
  And it is the weird thing to be experiencing an
• 39:03
  actual It's like it's it's either completely real or it
• 39:08
  is not real.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: It's either real or just like insane. And just like
• 39:12
  you should have nothing to do. You should either be
• 39:14
  all in or have nothing to do.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: With it, right, And so then you ask yourself, because
• 39:17
  there's things in scripture where it's like, Okay, go out
• 39:20
  and signs of those who believe in me. These good
• 39:23
  works will accompany them, healing the sick, speaking in tongues,
• 39:26
  they name a bunch of other wild stuff. Okay, we
• 39:31
  I mean it makes me more, I mean boldly. There
• 39:34
  are like there's not that many people that really believe them, right,
• 39:39
  because if you really believed, and of course I think
• 39:42
  that there's varying degrees of belief and you're kind of
• 39:45
  on a journey, you know, and everyone gives is given
• 39:48
  different graces and different gifts. But I'm like, man, at
• 39:53
  some point, what if in our generation this stuff with
• 39:56
  the world actually goes down and they go you believe it? Yeah?
• 40:02
  I mean, am I gonna say it? It's like when
• 40:04
  it comes down to it, I will cave if I
• 40:07
  don't really want to go pray, you know. But it's
• 40:09
  like because I don't believe it, but if I did,
• 40:12
  it would be so I mean, it's kind of getting there.
• 40:16
  It's like it's so big, right, it's no question. That's
• 40:19
  really what a transformation of your mind is, like the
• 40:21
  renewal of your mind that Saint Paul talks about, Like
• 40:24
  you have your minds renewed repent. He's not saying, guys,
• 40:27
  come join our religion. You guys are being bad. He's like, look,
• 40:31
  there's one ticket out of here. This world is fallen
• 40:35
  and run by demons. That's how it works. They've got
• 40:38
  power and dominion, which means they've got a lot of control.
• 40:42
  And you can see it. There are murders down the
• 40:44
  street all the time, and we just are kind of
• 40:47
  like ads, not in my world, but it's gonna be.
• 40:50
  And people that are experiencing really horrific things, this is
• 40:54
  what they cling to. And it's like, why they're clinging
• 40:56
  to this for a reason, because it's not just intellectualized
• 40:59
  for them. It's not just nice values to have. It's
• 41:03
  not just like, oh he got raised with the right morals,
• 41:06
  go get him Champ. It's like, this is a huge
• 41:09
  deal and I don't I don't know what you're supposed
• 41:12
  to Like, you're asking me, like, what's practical. It's like, dude,
• 41:15
  I don't know. I've just been begging for it to
• 41:17
  be real or for a clear sign, and it's not
• 41:20
  because I would rather know what's real and just face
• 41:24
  it than live in a fake life where I'm kind
• 41:26
  of oh yeah, I'm kind of Christian or I'm like
• 41:28
  I'm a atheist man, and man, it's like I don't know,
• 41:30
  pick I don't know, show me, yeah, show me.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: So like on the practical sides of it, let's not
• 41:35
  think towards like practically how to believe through that, because
• 41:38
  that's something that comes through Jesus. Like that's not something
• 41:41
  we can like choose for like we choose it, but
• 41:44
  like that true belief in faith is not something that
• 41:46
  we can conjure up inside of ourselves. It needs to
• 41:48
  have Christ conju up within us.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Then how do we open ourselves to that?
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, I would say this, I would say do the
• 41:55
  hard thing because if you're in a situation if you're
• 41:59
  both is like hey, let's go to the strip club,
• 42:02
  and like are you gonna say yes or no?
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Like you should just.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Say no, Just say no, because like what you were
• 42:08
  talking about a second ago is making me think a lot,
• 42:11
  because if it comes down to it and somebody is
• 42:14
  like holding a gun to your head and they're like
• 42:16
  do you believe it?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Like what are you gonna say?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: And if you can't say no the little things, there's
• 42:20
  no shot you're gonna say that you believe it.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's let's go back to this example of the
• 42:26
  strip club. Okay, you have a buddy and he's like, hey,
• 42:29
  let's go to strip club together. It's fun, time, will
• 42:31
  enjoy it is like, is pretty pretty people?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: This is like massively common.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: What do you do? Huge do you just say? It's
• 42:40
  like there's different ways you can just find It's like, oh,
• 42:42
  I'm good, I'm good. Not tonight. That's the like dismissive
• 42:45
  way of like, I know I shouldn't be doing that,
• 42:47
  and I won't. So I'm like, no, I'm good, not tonight.
• 42:50
  But through that, you're saying, but I might be open
• 42:52
  to it some other time. Through that, you're you're not
• 42:54
  expressing to this other person your belief in the morality
• 42:58
  and the dignity of the human body. If you say no,
• 43:02
  then it's it's a little more abruptly, it's not like
• 43:04
  necessarily leaving an opening. But it's still like you're just
• 43:08
  saying no. You're not like proclaiming the truth. But if
• 43:12
  you say no, I do not want to degrade my
• 43:16
  perception of women. I do not want to abuse the
• 43:19
  dignity of another I am not want I do not
• 43:23
  want to do that and I will never want to
• 43:26
  do that, and like it might sound harsh to your friend,
• 43:29
  but then you're you're proclaiming your truth there, and in
• 43:32
  that way, you're giving an example of your belief. Okay,
• 43:36
  So like a way to be practical is like don't
• 43:38
  just not do stuff because it's the Christian way. It
• 43:43
  show that you're living the Christian life, you know.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you take it even a step farther further,
• 43:49
  whatever the world is, Like, if you're in that situation,
• 43:51
  don't don't even just say no, take your friend with you.
• 43:54
  Don't let him go, Like I don't remember who it was.
• 43:58
  It's like how much do you have to hate somebody
• 44:01
  to not want them to live the Christian life with you?
• 44:05
  Like if you think hell is real, how much do
• 44:08
  you have to hate somebody to let them go? Like
• 44:12
  if there's somebody in that situation and he's like, hey,
• 44:15
  let's go to strip club and you're like, no, I'm
• 44:17
  a Christian. I think we should degrade women, Like I'm
• 44:20
  not going to do that, and you don't try and
• 44:22
  stop him.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Like get on you for not going.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: But if you're truly trying to live out the Christian,
• 44:30
  you should be like, that's why God put us all
• 44:32
  here together.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: The entire reason, like.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: Practically speaking, in say this scenario is like do you
• 44:39
  just say no and then grab them and it's like
• 44:41
  you can't go? Or like, how do you practically help
• 44:45
  someone who is like I'm going to go to the
• 44:48
  strip club? How do you practically steer them away from
• 44:51
  that without pushing them away from you, without like making
• 44:57
  them hate you. It's like how do you still connect
• 44:59
  connect them but steer them away from something like that?
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the only thing that I think is important
• 45:10
  to hit on would be if you what if though
• 45:17
  in your heart you don't really believe that the strip
• 45:21
  club is bad, but you like, I know it's bad, right,
• 45:25
  But that's the only reason we think like that is
• 45:28
  because we've been raised not to be like that's bad.
• 45:31
  You don't do that, you don't go there. But the
• 45:33
  reason that those are that's popular, The reason pornography is
• 45:36
  everywhere now is because people were only raised with don't
• 45:39
  do that. But no one knows why there's a better
• 45:43
  option and why you don't want to see that, why
• 45:46
  you shouldn't want to, But if you do want to,
• 45:49
  which is what temptation is all about yeah, there's a
• 45:54
  deeper thing going on. So I think like for me,
• 45:57
  the practicals never really worked because it was like, Okay, well,
• 46:02
  you know what the right move is in this situation,
• 46:04
  the right thing to do, and then it's black and
• 46:05
  white and you just follow the rules. But I never
• 46:08
  had a transformation of my heart, so I would just
• 46:10
  still be stuck in the same crap all the time,
• 46:13
  even though I knew what was right.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: What was it that would have helped you? Because we
• 46:18
  say practically like, oh, but saying this wasn't good. Yeah,
• 46:20
  well that in practically speaking, that's not the best way
• 46:23
  to approach someone, to just say you know, this is true,
• 46:26
  that's you shouldn't do that. That's not, practically speaking, not
• 46:29
  the best way. So, like, what would have helped you?
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Number one, it's a renewal of your mind. That's what
• 46:36
  has to come. So that's the thing to aim for.
• 46:40
  So it's it's to open your heart and have your
• 46:44
  broken and distorted desires and aims passions learn to be
• 46:49
  redirected and opened up in the right. Yeah, health, But
• 46:52
  how do you help someone else into them?
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Because you can't rip open their heart and do that
• 46:59
  for them, like how can you bring someone else into that?
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: You can? You can't do it for yourself either, but
• 47:04
  you can open up and pray that your heart is pierced.
• 47:10
  And I'm the reason I'm not going like how do
• 47:12
  you get them to do it? Is because it's not
• 47:13
  about you getting them to do it. It's about you
• 47:16
  doing it so much that what they see in you
• 47:19
  is such a better option that they can't help but
• 47:23
  follow Christ where he's shining through you.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: So the idea of being an example that people want
• 47:28
  to look towards, right, and even if in this case,
• 47:31
  your friend does go to the ship club, they will
• 47:33
  see your example and then see that like you're happy
• 47:37
  through it. It's not like you're.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: No guys, no I can't, I can't, I can't.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: But like you're happy through it, and they're they're jealous
• 47:45
  because there's something that like you want to bring out
• 47:48
  the jealousy and people not like the sinful type of jealousy,
• 47:53
  but the idea of to see something beautiful and to
• 47:56
  want that beauty that is not the.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Curiosity is what they can ask. And you want people
• 48:00
  to be like, why is he always so happy? Right?
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: He doesn't literally of these things that we do. He
• 48:05
  doesn't like go out and party at clubs and like
• 48:08
  watch these things and do these things. He doesn't do
• 48:10
  any of the stuff that we think is going to
• 48:12
  make us happy. But he's so much happier than all.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: The example I like to use for my own personal
• 48:17
  life is, you know, in high school, I worked at
• 48:21
  could Ris over the summer and just one of the
• 48:24
  work is there just ask me, you know, after I
• 48:27
  came in from running out to a car to give
• 48:28
  some of this stuff, just like why are you smiling
• 48:31
  all the time? And just just something simple like that,
• 48:33
  Like because like you're you're working, you do the same
• 48:37
  thing four or five days a week for many hours.
• 48:40
  You know, I wasn't working like full full time. But
• 48:42
  so it's like it gets drudgery, it's repetitious, so like
• 48:46
  there's nothing new through that that's like invigorating, right, So
• 48:49
  like how do you smile through that and not just
• 48:51
  like try to get through it, try to push through it.
• 48:54
  And it's just like what else am I gonna do?
• 48:57
  Am I just gonna like be depressed about this? Like
• 49:00
  I'm working for a reason. I'm working so that I
• 49:02
  can get money, so that I can do x y Z,
• 49:04
  so that I can prepare for the future or whatnot,
• 49:06
  and like that hope for the future gives me joy
• 49:09
  and so like this work can give me some joy
• 49:12
  and also just nice to feel happy.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what that that ties back into exactly what you're
• 49:19
  talking about earlier with Jordan Peterson thing. It's like, because
• 49:22
  you just said you're working to do this, so you
• 49:26
  can do this, so you can do it, Like it's
• 49:28
  all about like why you're doing it, because then again
• 49:31
  what you said, like why do you not do this thing?
• 49:35
  It's because you were raised and you were told that's bad,
• 49:37
  don't do it? Like why are you doing these things
• 49:40
  or not doing other things? And it all has to
• 49:42
  do with your priorities and like where it's all pointed.
• 49:45
  Because if you are just not doing things because they're
• 49:51
  bad or because people told you they were bad, the
• 49:54
  not doing them is like almost like a selfish thing.
• 49:58
  But if we go, like if we use again the example, yeah,
• 50:02
  it's like if you don't go and you're like they
• 50:04
  just told me not to do this, it's bad, It's
• 50:06
  like it's still good that you don't go, right, Like
• 50:09
  we don't want to objectively, Yeah, objectively it is better
• 50:12
  to not go to a strip club than to go
• 50:14
  to a script strip club, but like they're even better
• 50:19
  than that, is to not go to a script strict club,
• 50:23
  not because you were just told it is bad, but
• 50:25
  because you don't want to objectify people and because you
• 50:28
  have the higher purpose. And it's like, if you're working,
• 50:31
  you should You're working so that you can support this
• 50:36
  higher cause. And so it's all about like what it's
• 50:38
  leading towards. And if you are going down that road
• 50:41
  and you are going to the strip club, you're going
• 50:43
  wherever you're doing all these things, you're probably not doing
• 50:48
  that for higher cause. You're probably doing that for some
• 50:51
  kind of selfish reason. But I do think it all
• 50:54
  ties back into what we were talking about earlier about
• 50:56
  like what are you doing this for? And don't just
• 50:58
  go one step up, go all the way up and
• 51:00
  see what's actually at the top of the chain.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have a question about the practical side, like
• 51:07
  another example, but not quite as specific. So we've been
• 51:11
  talking a lot about you want to be an example
• 51:14
  so that people look up to you in some way
• 51:16
  and want to be more like you because you are
• 51:18
  like Christ in some way. Like that's what it means
• 51:21
  to be a Christian to be like Christ in this world?
• 51:25
  But what is it that you see in people that
• 51:29
  makes you want to be like them? So, like, practically speaking,
• 51:32
  if there was something that I could add to my
• 51:35
  way of living that would then make an effect on
• 51:39
  how people would see me to be more like Christ
• 51:42
  in this world, what would that be?
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: I would say again, what I said earlier is just
• 51:49
  like when I see people who if you're in a
• 51:56
  situation there's an option to do something that you shouldn't do,
• 52:01
  and you don't do it.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Like I can just speak from experience, if.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: We're in that kind of situation and somebody says no, Like,
• 52:09
  that kind of thing truly moves me so much, even
• 52:13
  if I like wasn't considering doing it in the first place.
• 52:15
  Like I could be an outsider looking in and if
• 52:18
  you see somebody choose the good in any situation like
• 52:23
  that is such an incredible thing for me to see.
• 52:28
  So like again I would just say, well I said earlier,
• 52:31
  just do the hard things. If it's it doesn't matter
• 52:36
  how small it's like it can be the smallest thing
• 52:38
  that you think doesn't matter at all, but the little
• 52:41
  things can build up and if you can't do the
• 52:44
  little things, or you can be able to do the
• 52:46
  big things. If you can't say no to the little things,
• 52:49
  or you can be able to say no to the
• 52:50
  big things.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: You have something, you have something for us, let's see.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: But yeah, practical, just just say no sometimes, like just
• 53:05
  and like I don't always want to say, like, do
• 53:07
  hard things because they're hard, but you know sometimes.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: But the reason why you do a hard thing is
• 53:14
  an explanation for your faith. You don't not you don't
• 53:19
  do a hard thing just because it's hard. The reason
• 53:23
  that you're doing it will make people understand why you're
• 53:25
  doing it.
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and people if somebody sees you say no to
• 53:29
  something that's bad for you, that's gonna they're gonna be
• 53:34
  moved by that a lot more than if you say
• 53:36
  yes and you're just like oh sure, and.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: So maybe you're not able to stop them from and
• 53:40
  then we're not even talking just about like big.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: And more lax.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: It's like some it could be the smallest, some little thing,
• 53:45
  some small little thing like oh, we're gonna go, uh
• 53:48
  do was it the thing? Someone? It's like it's practically speaking,
• 53:53
  is there any real but like.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: It's not that bad. But even the small things if
• 53:58
  you can just say no because.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Or the idea of like with gossiping. You know, if
• 54:03
  you if you notice someone's talking speaking badly about someone,
• 54:05
  it's like it's like, no, I don't want to there's
• 54:08
  no like productive. Sometimes you got to talk about other
• 54:10
  people to heal or understand better. But other times a
• 54:13
  lot of people do it for pleasure to talk smack
• 54:16
  about someone. And if it gets to that point, it's
• 54:18
  like just say like, no, I don't really want to
• 54:20
  talk about this person like that. That's not healthy ful
• 54:23
  time that something wants.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: To say, well on that. So so I still one
• 54:36
  of the biggest things for me is still this. You
• 54:40
  have to really the goal of the Christian life is
• 54:45
  to get to a point where you want only God.
• 54:49
  And so the reality is is you want all kinds
• 54:51
  of other stuff right now. It's just how it is.
• 54:54
  But when you die, the question is that he asks
• 54:59
  is do you want me? That's the question. It's not
• 55:04
  like all right, let's look at your demo reel. Yeah,
• 55:06
  let's see your highlights. It's do you want me? Can
• 55:09
  you let go of everything else for me? Because this
• 55:13
  is remember what we talked about with the Att Walsh thing.
• 55:15
  That's kind of what I'm thinking.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: So yes, ultimately speaking, that is the foundation. It's just
• 55:20
  like this this faith, but we do have this idea
• 55:23
  of faith and works. And so I would use an
• 55:25
  example like if you are a couch potato and you
• 55:29
  just don't like exercising in any way, but you know
• 55:34
  you want, like you kind of want to. It's like
• 55:35
  it's a cool things, like I wish I was able
• 55:37
  to do that, but like it's hard, it's not enjoyable.
• 55:41
  You don't want to go out and run, you don't
• 55:42
  want to go work out, but you make yourself do it.
• 55:46
  You do that good work, and then months down the
• 55:49
  line you start wanting to work out, wanting to go run.
• 55:54
  And through those works, you alter how you think, you
• 55:57
  alter how you see, you alter how you believe, and
• 56:01
  through those works you instill in your heart the greater
• 56:05
  faith in this case of the faith of you know,
• 56:09
  bodily health. But so I would say, like in the
• 56:13
  Christian faith is like, yeah, it's at the end of
• 56:15
  the day, it's not a demo reel of all the
• 56:17
  good you've done versus all the evil you've done, and
• 56:19
  you've crossed the zero you're positive good. It's not that,
• 56:24
  but all of the good works that you do create
• 56:27
  in your heart to greater capacity for love. And it
• 56:30
  is this greater capacity for love that you bring forth
• 56:34
  to God.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree with you. We agree, I think because
• 56:42
  I would look at it the same way of if
• 56:44
  you something being Let me think here, because it's tough
• 56:50
  because you can use the word want in a couple
• 56:52
  of different ways. But when I say God asks do
• 56:55
  you want me? I think he's really going to say,
• 56:58
  have you been trying to get to me instead of
• 57:01
  just staying with everything else? And so the couch potato
• 57:04
  who's on the couch? He's like, right now, he wants
• 57:07
  those potato chips, right, but he also wants to work out,
• 57:11
  And so who's at the end of potato chips in
• 57:15
  this hypothetical situation, that's what he wants, right, So you
• 57:20
  whatever you're doing, like, it's kind of what Saint Paul said,
• 57:26
  why do I do what I don't want to do?
• 57:27
  And what I want to do I don't do. It's
• 57:30
  along those same lines. It's a little bit confusing because
• 57:32
  I'm not sure how to perfectly define them want. It's
• 57:34
  more of like, what do you ultimately desire, and what
• 57:37
  if you chosen kind of thing? Right, So like we
• 57:40
  all ultimately desire God, but what are we choosing in
• 57:45
  our day to day? And then the works will add
• 57:47
  up to that ultimate choice at the end, which is
• 57:49
  do you want me or do you want that? And
• 57:53
  the choices throughout your life all have reflections of that
• 57:56
  ultimate choice. Now it's okay if you don't choose the
• 57:59
  stuff that's always of God because we're falling creatures. So
• 58:02
  like the truth that you will have to make a
• 58:04
  choice between God and something else, and your life will
• 58:06
  have told you what you choose. That's the truth. But
• 58:10
  then the fullness of the truth includes grace and mercy,
• 58:13
  and so that is grace tied in with works. And
• 58:15
  so maybe you do a workout and then you eat
• 58:17
  two bags of potato chips. It's like, don't worry, don't stress,
• 58:22
  don't be anxious, just keep your eyes focused on what
• 58:25
  you ultimately desire, and keep trying to put in those
• 58:28
  good works and knock up those habits and use those
• 58:31
  tools around you and pray for the graces and asked
• 58:34
  to be open. And it's like a it's a continual
• 58:37
  journey of self reflection, openness, self, just being honest and
• 58:41
  kind of sucking and then try and again if I
• 58:45
  can keep going. Sorry, yeah, the answer to what place
• 58:48
  I also just seen? It's fine, right, The answer to
• 58:53
  what does it practically look like to to emanate Christ
• 58:57
  from you? I ask myself that question a lot of
• 59:01
  times where it was like, okay, well, I have to
• 59:04
  tell people when I think that they're wrong, Like I
• 59:06
  have to tell them if I think it's a sin,
• 59:07
  I better not ever sin. I better not do this.
• 59:09
  I better not do that, you know. And it's like
• 59:11
  why I want to do good works. I want to
• 59:13
  speak well, I want to blah blah blah blah blah.
• 59:15
  But real quick. Yeah, so this one we've we've heard
• 59:22
  this all the time. But the thing I feel like
• 59:25
  I've read it before. But the thing too that sticks
• 59:28
  out to me is the beginning and end. So it's
• 59:32
  Corinthians thirteen.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thirteen thirteen.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one thirteen, I guess first Corinthians. Well, yeah,
• 59:42
  one Corinthians thirteen. If I speak in the tongues of
• 59:45
  men and of angels but have not love, I am
• 59:48
  a noisy gong or cleaning symbol. And if I have
• 59:52
  prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge. And
• 59:57
  if I have all the faith so as I'm gonna,
• 1:00:01
  I'm gonna kind of I'm gonna ad lib I what
• 1:00:03
  it kind of means to me. So if I have
• 1:00:05
  so much faith in God so as to remove mountains
• 1:00:09
  that I just believe I can remove mountains, I will
• 1:00:11
  be able to. But if I don't have love, I
• 1:00:15
  am nothing. If I give away everything I have, even
• 1:00:18
  to the point where my body is burned, but have
• 1:00:21
  not love, I've gained nothing. And then this is what
• 1:00:24
  I think. If you're trying to it gets over read, right,
• 1:00:29
  But the person that does this is being christ because
• 1:00:37
  you're embodying love. Love is patient and kind. Love is
• 1:00:44
  not jealous or boastful. It is not arrogant or rude.
• 1:00:48
  Love does not insist on its own way. It is
• 1:00:51
  not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice it wrong,
• 1:00:56
  but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, it
• 1:01:00
  believes all things, It hopes all things, and endures all things.
• 1:01:06
  And then it says love never ends. Prophecies, knowledge, tongues, skills, abilities, thoughts, ideas,
• 1:01:16
  power will all end. It's all going to go away,
• 1:01:21
  but faith, hope, and love abide. But the greatest of
• 1:01:25
  these is love. So what that's basically telling me here
• 1:01:31
  is that the number one thing that we should be
• 1:01:34
  focusing on is opening up to the love of Jesus
• 1:01:38
  so that we can be love. Because the Christian who
• 1:01:41
  doesn't live out the Christian faith doesn't have and doesn't
• 1:01:46
  have God's love. And there's many reasons. If you've got
• 1:01:50
  walls up, if you've been wounded in the past, if
• 1:01:52
  you've got misinformation, if you've never fought for the truth,
• 1:01:58
  if you never fought to find something true or try
• 1:02:01
  to pray openly or engage with some sort of scripture
• 1:02:05
  or whatever it is. There's so many reasons. But if
• 1:02:09
  you don't train yourself, not train yourself, if you don't
• 1:02:12
  open yourself to learn how you can possibly want to
• 1:02:17
  not go to a strip club as opposed to just
• 1:02:19
  not go because it's bad, then you're missing the whole point,
• 1:02:22
  which is to become love and to be united with love.
• 1:02:27
  And so my practical advice is learn to open up
• 1:02:35
  to love, just whatever that means and what that might
• 1:02:39
  look like, would be praying for it, asking for it,
• 1:02:43
  because like you said, it's a gift. You have to ask.
• 1:02:46
  You have to ask the one who said I am love.
• 1:02:49
  If you can have some, you have to ask. But
• 1:02:53
  he wants you to ask. If you seek and knock
• 1:02:55
  and ask, you're gonna find. That is the number one
• 1:02:59
  biggest promise that we've been given. And millions of people
• 1:03:02
  stick to that, And there are millions of people who
• 1:03:05
  don't ask and don't seek and don't knock. And you
• 1:03:07
  can look at it. Just go on the internet, just
• 1:03:10
  go on YouTube. You can see what it is. And
• 1:03:13
  we're going to see a way worse situation when when
• 1:03:16
  real life hits us and there's death around the corner.
• 1:03:20
  And so it's not a very practical answer. I get that, couldn't.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Could I try to phrase kind of what you're saying
• 1:03:29
  in something that you can physically do. So when you're
• 1:03:32
  reading first Quincian's thirteen, keep that in mind. Look at
• 1:03:36
  your Bible, read through it, because it's actually really practical.
• 1:03:38
  Like this is a very practical section. Love is patient. Yeah,
• 1:03:45
  if you notice yourself patient, then you don't have love. No, No, okay,
• 1:03:50
  that's what I would say about you. But that's harsh.
• 1:03:53
  What like, sure, you don't have love, but like, how
• 1:03:56
  do you gain love in this? Okay? I guess yeah,
• 1:03:58
  Like you are not patience yea, but how do you
• 1:04:01
  be patient?
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: The bad news is that you don't have love?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is the good news.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Is that Jesus came and Jesus is love and Jesus
• 1:04:10
  wants a relationship with you, and you can ask for
• 1:04:12
  love and you can get it.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So love is patient. If you find yourself being
• 1:04:16
  impatient with someone, try to be patient with them. Ask
• 1:04:20
  ask for Jesus's help to be patient. Love is kind.
• 1:04:24
  If you find yourself being mean to someone, speaking bad
• 1:04:28
  about someone behind their back, try not to do that.
• 1:04:31
  Ask Jesus to love them more and help you love
• 1:04:35
  them more so that you can speak kindly about them.
• 1:04:37
  So it's natural to speak kindly. And then go through
• 1:04:39
  First Christians thirteen and read all those things and patience,
• 1:04:42
  kind all the other things that it says love is
• 1:04:46
  And when you find yourself not doing that, ask Jesus
• 1:04:49
  to help you, as you were saying, because he is
• 1:04:51
  all willing to help you. And try, you know, just
• 1:04:56
  try and ask Jesus for help and he will He'll
• 1:05:00
  bring you.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, trying, and then when he gives you an opportunity
• 1:05:05
  to grow in love, be open to it, and just
• 1:05:10
  don't say I think I've said this before. Don't say,
• 1:05:14
  you know, Jesus help me to be more patient, and
• 1:05:17
  then lose your patience the second somebody walks in the
• 1:05:19
  room doing something that you don't like. It's like if
• 1:05:22
  your younger sibling comes in and they're like screaming and
• 1:05:25
  dancing and like crawling all over you, don't be like
• 1:05:29
  in that moment, God give me more patience, God help
• 1:05:32
  me to be more patient.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Whatever like that.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: Right there is your opportunity to be more patient, and
• 1:05:37
  that is God giving you an.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Opportunity to be more patient.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: So if you are praying for that and you think
• 1:05:42
  you're not patient enough, and it could be anything, it doesn't.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Just have to be patience.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Be open to those opportunities when God gives them to you,
• 1:05:51
  and realize when He is giving you an opportunity to grow,
• 1:05:54
  take that opportunity and actually grow and actually learn from it.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: My practical advice as I was trying to formulate yours,
• 1:06:03
  is do not be ashamed of your faith. Do not
• 1:06:09
  be ashamed of what you do.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Can we do a whole other episode.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Non shame that's a point. But what I'm talking about
• 1:06:15
  practically is if someone asks, like, oh, how's your day been?
• 1:06:18
  Like what you do today? You could say I went
• 1:06:21
  to Mass this morning, and I spent a bit of
• 1:06:24
  time in prayer, and then I went off to class,
• 1:06:28
  and then I went and had a meeting with someone,
• 1:06:30
  and then I ate lunch, had more class, and then
• 1:06:34
  I went on a podcast with friends, and just something
• 1:06:36
  like simple as that, like how's your day been? What
• 1:06:38
  have you done? Like I went to Mass to day,
• 1:06:40
  I prayed today, Like you don't need to be ashamed
• 1:06:42
  of doing that. You know, if someone asks, like, oh, hey,
• 1:06:46
  do you want to do something all day Sunday? Like
• 1:06:48
  we can go out on a float trip all day Sundays,
• 1:06:50
  like we can leave mornings Like no, I can't do
• 1:06:53
  that because I'm going to Mass Sunday morning, or I'm
• 1:06:55
  going to Mass Sunday and I want to do that,
• 1:06:58
  and not just say oh no, I can't. Like, do
• 1:07:00
  not be ashamed of your faith, Like you don't have
• 1:07:03
  to go up to a round of people and say
• 1:07:05
  I went to Mass this morning, but like, do not
• 1:07:08
  hide it in your conversations, because if it's part of
• 1:07:10
  who you are, it just comes up naturally. You don't
• 1:07:12
  need to force it. But where it is natural to
• 1:07:15
  put it, leave it there, like you don't need to
• 1:07:18
  take it off height It is like, oh, this person
• 1:07:20
  is is atheists, so I'm not going to talk about
• 1:07:23
  church to them. It's like, no, no, you're Christian. They're atheists,
• 1:07:29
  but you're Christian. Like show that you live it right, Yeah,
• 1:07:36
  any other lessons I.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Really want to do a whole thing on that. I
• 1:07:42
  feel like we barely.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: Scratch the surface, Like because we talked about a lot
• 1:07:46
  of stuff, but as far as like actual things in
• 1:07:50
  the world go, especially that, like we could do three
• 1:07:55
  hour episode on that.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: We're not going.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: We'll put that on our list of things to do.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: And yeah, thoughts, No, I mean I really have.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: There's so much about But no, you you're explaining so
• 1:08:12
  much good stuff. It's like you talked a lot.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: I hope it was clear. I mean I think I
• 1:08:16
  think I just got worked out. I don't know, it's.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: It's just crazy like you're sharing like what is big
• 1:08:24
  to you, which is something that's inspiring to me because
• 1:08:27
  like I find that different. I'm just like, oh, I've
• 1:08:30
  learned stuff throughout my life. It's like I can share
• 1:08:32
  that and it almost makes me prideful, just like, oh
• 1:08:34
  I heard this thing once and now I know it
• 1:08:36
  and I can say it. But like you're just like
• 1:08:39
  I'm trying to figure this out and like and in
• 1:08:42
  a way that like you have such a personal relationship
• 1:08:45
  with your faith in a way that I'm like almost
• 1:08:48
  jealous of to just be like so excited to pursue
• 1:08:52
  something like that. That that's that's inspiring.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: It is literally not because of me, I'm telling you.
• 1:08:58
  You just keep asking and like you just find people
• 1:09:02
  and then God just works. It's real. It's crazy. It's crazy,
• 1:09:07
  but it literally is going on. Especially nowadays, we're at
• 1:09:11
  such an important time where it's like this is gonna matter,
• 1:09:15
  and it's like we're gonna know that God's real. Like
• 1:09:20
  we're gonna know that God's real. If we don't.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Already there you go, that's at least I hope if
• 1:09:28
  if we don't already know that God is real, we
• 1:09:31
  will at some point. Let's make it worthwhile, all.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Right, So I guess what what would be Let's just
• 1:09:41
  see each have what's what would be your if you
• 1:09:44
  had a tagline for how do you be a Christian
• 1:09:47
  in a post Christian age. I feel like that's a
• 1:09:49
  better way of talking about post Christians in a post
• 1:09:53
  Christian age. What would be what would be small definition
• 1:09:59
  of post Christian age? Small definition of being a Christian
• 1:10:05
  in that age.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: Small definition of post Christian age for me would be
• 1:10:09
  does not believe it's not normal to talk about your
• 1:10:18
  Christian faith. And so the small definition of to be
• 1:10:21
  an you Christian faith is to share, to like share
• 1:10:24
  what you do to be a Christian. So that's what
• 1:10:28
  I would say.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: I would say, I'm gonna kind of like tweak my
• 1:10:34
  evangelization definition a little bit, but I'm gonna say, live
• 1:10:37
  your life in a way that reminds people, that reminds
• 1:10:41
  the world of the truth that they've forgotten. Because I
• 1:10:44
  think that we live in the world there's completely forgotten God,
• 1:10:48
  and the way that you live your life should remind
• 1:10:52
  them that He's there and he's real, because it is real.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: I really like that, because it is real. It is real.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Is that why Israel is named Israel?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: Israel? And you you haven't had any puns yet? We
• 1:11:07
  needed that good points, all right, you'll give you or
• 1:11:14
  even doing on this fire podcast, we didn't even say that.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, what's your small definitions?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: My small definition of a post Christian age? I like yours,
• 1:11:36
  A generation generations that have forgotten God. That really is it?
• 1:11:46
  And then how can you be a Christian in a
• 1:11:49
  post Christian age? Remember God, Remember God's love to the
• 1:11:59
  people that you're with.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: I like that. So now to close us out in
• 1:12:03
  prayer as we finish with the whole point of this
• 1:12:06
  all spire and name the Father Son, Holy Spirits. Amen, Jesus,
• 1:12:13
  help me, help us. I pray that we may want
• 1:12:19
  you and for the grace to want you more so
• 1:12:23
  that we may live as you want us to, as
• 1:12:26
  we want to be with us, and live in us,
• 1:12:31
  for through you we can do all things. Name of
• 1:12:35
  the Father Son, Holy Spirits. Amen.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: All right, thank you for listening. If you've listened this far,
• 1:12:43
  we actually had. I told you this person who actually
• 1:12:47
  d md us look at your shirt sometimes we said
• 1:12:54
  three though, so there's still two more shirts to be given.
• 1:12:58
  Comment it does work. We're actually giving away. All you
• 1:13:04
  have to do is d m us on Instagram. Leave
• 1:13:06
  a comment that says.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: What I was going to say, couch potato.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: I'm in on that next time it's going to be pomegranate.
• 1:13:14
  That that's fine.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: Next time it's pomegranate this time comment or d m
• 1:13:19
  us couch potato.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first two.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: People, we'll give you a free shirt. There will definitely
• 1:13:26
  be a fallow up to this because there's a billion
• 1:13:29
  other things.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I've got thoughts.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: Now we're going to try to put it into our
• 1:13:32
  list of topics we want to talk about.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: On that note, if you do have stuff that you
• 1:13:37
  think we should talk about, please please let us know.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Please comment d m us again.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like today was was derived from Seth, a friend
• 1:13:48
  of mine who just like suggested some things, and that's
• 1:13:50
  what we're talking about now. I mean we tweaked it
• 1:13:52
  a little bit.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: So we're going to cover it all. Not all today, yes,
• 1:13:57
  but all right, all right, that's it. Thank you guys
• 1:14:01
  for watching. This has been the spire.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Let it go on.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: Peace out, Peace