Latest / Auto Collabs / Why the Next Big Auto Story Won’t Start on Social Media with Jamie Butters

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Why the Next Big Auto Story Won’t Start on Social Media with Jamie Butters · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  You know, one of the things that I don't think we give enough credit to [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs... as an industry, and I'll say more than cars, but also as an industry,
• 0:15
  is that you need actual journalists and actual people with actual relationships to generate the news that we all talk about, right? We, we kind of have the easy job. Mm-hmm.
• 0:26
  I mean, we generate some of it from the start, but there's a whole f- there's a whole team. I want- team is too small a word, right?
• 0:34
  There is a cadre, there is a battalion of automotive industry journalists that are constantly out there talking to manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, um, tech companies to actually bring the news to the surface.
• 0:48
  And, and to his- Well, and wh- Yes, Jamie Butters has had- Yeah... had a big hand in that, and will continue now that he's moving on to Wall Street Journal. Yeah.
• 0:56
  I'm, I'm excited that, one, that he's moving on to Wall Street Journal. I think that that's gonna be a key play for, like, retail automotive to get a, a different perspective into a broader publication.
• 1:06
  Um, but I, I love what you're saying there, and, and I, I hope, uh, uh, I hope you can get into this conversation with him.
• 1:13
  But it's, it, it's really interesting to me that in this world of AI, like, AI still needs source material, right? Like, we still need to provide source material to everything else that we're talking about.
• 1:27
  And, and there still will have to be people that are on the ground thinking about the source material of any industry, any human connection, any conversation.
• 1:35
  And, uh, I think Jamie Butters is great at divven- digging up source material. He is. Wh- why don't we dig in.
• 1:41
  I, I, and I gotta say, I, I have to imagine the journalists are surrounded by corkboard and, like, lines of yarn, 'cause they're like- Cigarettes... [laughs] and, and, like, tweed jackets with elbow patches.
• 1:54
  Anyways, off on a tangent. Hey, guys. I hope you, uh, enjoy this episode with Jamie "Thaddeus Bartholomew" Butters- [laughs]... on Auto Collabs. That's not his real name.
• 2:08
  [upbeat music] Jamie Butters, my friend, it is good to have you. I believe the first time you've ever been on this show. Welcome. Hey, Paul. Uh, well, we've recorded some, uh, we... We were at, um, at NAMAD- Yep...
• 2:20
  uh, I joined you. So, uh, uh, unless this is a separate show- It's, uh, I mean-... but the same team... I'm not even sure which show it is. [laughs] It's the same team. We have, we have some shows.
• 2:28
  But either way, um, big transition going on and, uh, from you moving from Automotive News and the Wall Street Journal, and, like, you have this interesting perspective on the industry.
• 2:39
  And I think you also have a very unique place in the industry as the editor for Auto News for so long. I think people just associate you with this center point of what's going on in the industry.
• 2:50
  And so I think, like, because there's a change being made, um, I think, like, it's different than, it's different than anybody else, you know? So, um, I'm excited about it.
• 3:00
  I'm a, a longtime Wall Street Journal reader, so I always joke with when we go into the airport and stuff, and there's, like- Right [laughs]... a Wall Street Journal store.
• 3:06
  I always tell everyone I'm gonna walk in and show everyone that I'm a subscriber. Right. Um, [laughs] Show your card.
• 3:11
  [laughs] And, and so, uh, tell us a little bit about your journey in automotive, though, because, like, your time with Automotive News wasn't it.
• 3:16
  You were covering automotive a long time, uh, for, for a long time, and you bring a lot of that experience forward, and you kinda have some vision for the next stage of your career.
• 3:24
  So I'd love to just unpack that a little bit. Uh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I've... You're right. I've been doing this a long time. [laughs] So- It wasn't an old joke, I promise. Uh, yeah.
• 3:32
  [laughs] But no, you know, it's been, uh, really interesting, because I started covering autos in the late '90s, you know, uh, when I was, when, um, my wife and I both worked at the Lexington Herald Leader down in central Kentucky.
• 3:45
  Uh, Toyota had a plant nearby, and I, I covered a job one, you know, for the, the Sienna minivan rolling off the line there.
• 3:53
  And, uh, Toyota ended up, long story short, I ended up going, my first auto show ended up being Tokyo in 1997. Trying to learn all about- First one was Tokyo?
• 4:02
  [laughs] Yeah, before I ever went to an auto show in Detroit- Talk about going deep in right out of the gate... or anywhere else. [laughs] You know, learning the industry from Toyota was a really different perspective.
• 4:12
  And which, uh, especially drove home when I moved to Detroit [laughs] and people- Yes... had a little different point of view growing up, you know, around a really unionized auto industry. Mm-hmm.
• 4:22
  Um, but I learned about the industry, you know, really from Toyota and its manufacturing processes, and also that Tokyo n- '97 show was when Toyota and Honda first came out with hybrids. And this was, you know- Wow...
• 4:34
  the beginning of electrification. '97? Yeah. Uh, the, the Prius and the Honda Insight. That's right.
• 4:41
  And so, and even at the time, and when I came back and, and my main, you know, project that I wrote about from the trip was, you know, that this was a new kind of vehicle, a new kind of powertrain, and Toyota saw it, you know, this gas and electric combination with the little animation on the screen to show you where your power's coming from [laughs] and- Yes...
• 5:00
  how regeneration, you know, recharges the batteries. You know, that this was a stepping stone to electric vehicles, which, you know, we'd hardly had any. I mean, you know, the EV1.
• 5:11
  Um, and then they saw that as a stepping stone to hydrogen fuel cell. And here I am, you know, almost 30 years later. Yeah. You know, Toyota is more than 50% hybrids, at least in, in the US.
• 5:22
  Uh, the US market is around 8% electric, you know, one out of 12. That's not as much as some people were talking about it just a few years ago, but- Not even close...
• 5:32
  it's a big difference, uh, from, you know, 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Yeah.
• 5:36
  So, you know, it's more than a million vehicles a year, and that's an, an interesting growth curve, but, uh, these changes take a long time, [laughs] is one- Yeah... of the things I've learned. Apparently.
• 5:48
  Uh- You can't, and apparently you can't legislate your way, uh, as fast as you would like. No, not if you're gonna let the companies survive as, as independent, you know, capitalist entities. Uh- Right...
• 5:59
  because it's just too hard to make moneyOn those, uh, vehicles, you know, without a lot of, a lot of support at this point Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Um, but yeah, so I was at the Herald-Leader until 2000.
• 6:10
  Uh, the day after the Bush-Gore election, uh, we moved to Detroit. I was at the Detroit Free Press for eight years. Um, basically the whole George W. Bush years.
• 6:20
  I did take a little time off to go to University of, uh, Michigan on a Knight-Wallace fellowship, which was fun. I got to go to Argentina and Istanbul. Uh, you know, really places I'd never been before.
• 6:33
  I'd been a little to Asia and a little to Europe. I'd never been to South America, never been to the Middle East. So that was- Mm... really fascinating. Uh, you know, that's when I started editing.
• 6:42
  You know, I came in as a reporter, and then I, after, after the fellowship, you know, we got...
• 6:46
  Right before I went on the fellowship, the newspaper got sold to Gannett, and, uh, I came back and basically everybody from my direct boss through the chairman of the board was different. [laughs] Oh, wow.
• 6:57
  But, uh, [laughs] so, um, I had to find my way at a, at a new place that I had been working for five years, six years. And, um, became the auto editor and then autos and business editor.
• 7:08
  And, uh, then, uh, right around when the economy started falling apart, I went to, uh, Bloomberg and ran the auto team there through the, the bankruptcies of, uh, GM and Chrysler and, uh, being, you know, covering [laughs] that for a, a financial
• 7:25
  focused, uh, news organization, you know, was really intense. Uh- Yeah... you know, it had seemed, it's hard to even remember at this point, but, you know, it had seemed unthinkable that General Motors could go bankrupt.
• 7:37
  Even though- Oh, without a doubt... their finances were so bad, it was just like they were too big. It would be too chaotic.
• 7:42
  And then they started talking about, "Well, there's maybe this little cl- un- little-used clause in the bankruptcy, [laughs] and we can just sort of pull out the assets and put them into a new co."
• 7:53
  And, uh, and, uh, so the Section 363 became the gospel and, and the government, you know, managed those bankruptcies and kept the auto industry moving. Uh- Mm-hmm... you know, really fascinating times.
• 8:06
  Uh, then, you know, the competitive difference between GM and Ford because Ford didn't go through, uh, the bankruptcy- Right... and get their balance sheet cleaned up like that was, uh, was really fascinating.
• 8:16
  And then in 2018, I went to Automotive News and really got to learn more about the, the retail end of the business. Um, obviously Automotive News doesn't just cover dealers. It covers, you know, the whole industry.
• 8:27
  Uh, but it was something that I didn't have as much exposure to, you know, working for general interest newspapers or the financial newswires. So, um, that was really educational for me.
• 8:39
  And, uh, now next month I'll go to The Wall Street Journal, and it was a place that really inspired my desire to get into business journalism. It was, uh, really the gold standard, I think.
• 8:50
  It's gotten more competitive- Really, tell, tell me about that... for business journalism. Tell me about that. You know, back in- Like the, the inspiration.
• 8:56
  Back, like, when did you, you know, hold that e- that edition up in your hands and the, with the, the way the print feels and you say, "One day, Wall Street Journal"? [laughs] You know, I actually, I, I never,
• 9:08
  didn't know I really ever thought I would make it there. But when I was, uh, when I was in college, you know, you, they had, uh, they'd have discounted subscriptions to the newspapers.
• 9:16
  You'd see them littered all up and down the [laughs] college neighborhoods. Yeah, everywhere. Everyone would subscribe, and then they don't always get up early in the morning to go bring them in.
• 9:24
  But, you know, yeah, talk about, I mean, back in the print era, and I grew up in the era of newspapers before the w- the interwebs. And it was so great because they had the two news summary columns.
• 9:36
  They had the two, you know, main heav- heavy stories, the, the leaders, and then the A-head, the feature story at the, you know, that started around the middle of page one. Mm-hmm. Always was a super entertaining read.
• 9:48
  I loved the, you know, the predictability of the format and the quality, you know, of what was in there. It's just like nobody could do what they did.
• 9:57
  Well, then a short time later, you know, a couple, a few people from, uh, uh, The Wall Street Journal broke off and, uh, created Bloomberg News.
• 10:04
  And with the backing of the richest man in New York, built a- That'll help... quite an estimable news army [laughs] That'll help... around the world. Always helps. Yep. Yeah.
• 10:12
  So, you know, the, The Journal, Reuters, and Bloomberg are sort of probably the biggest, you know, global, uh, business news, uh, entities.
• 10:21
  And, um, and yeah, the, The Wall Street Journal has just always been, it's, it's such an iconic place. I mean, we talk about, you know, you look at the biggest measure of the market- Mm...
• 10:32
  or, you know, a lot of people even use it as a measure of the economy. But the Dow Jones Industrial Average, I mean, that was created by Dow and Jones. And, you know, Dow Jones is the name of the, of the company [laughs]
• 10:43
  that owns- That owns The Wall Street Journal... The Wall Street Journal- Yes... and that is owned- Right... by News Corp. So it's, it's complicated, but, uh, but yeah- But it wasn't back in the day...
• 10:50
  no, just a great rich history. Right. Yeah, it wasn't back in the [laughs] day. It wasn't back in the day. And, you know, it's more complicated. So I think, so a lot of our audience is definitely the dealer side.
• 10:58
  And, and, you know, Automotive News is a staple.
• 11:00
  I, you know, I, I've just been in and out of hundreds and hundreds of dealerships in, in my career and always see a copy of Automotive News laying on the table in the GM's office or the owner's office.
• 11:12
  But I do also see a lot of Wall Street Journal. And, and I had one very specific, and probably the first time I became a Wall Street Journal reader is because I was with, uh, I was in Greg Ciocca Sr.'s, uh, office.
• 11:25
  Mm-hmm. And, uh, the Ciocca Auto Group, he's, he's, you know, he's broken through the top 50 now and he's on a streak. And this was, I mean, this had to be over 10 years ago.
• 11:33
  And he gave me his copy of Wall Street Journal and he said, he said, "Paul, I read this every single morning, and it is one of the ways that I've been able to be as successful as I am."
• 11:45
  He goes, "Because it's important that you know what's going on, not just here, but around you in the rest of the ecosystem." And he gave me a copy. He said, "You absolutely have to subscribe." From that day,
• 11:54
  I went home and I subscribed, digital edition, and I've been, I've paid attention ever since.
• 12:00
  And, and honestly, I have to say-That the, the type of journalism that Wall Street Journal is, will, like, has given to me over the last years, especially through all the tumultuous years of the pandemic and all of the social unrest and political unrest and all the things that have been going on, there, there is, there is a bit of solace in the Wall Street Journal that I felt like I could, I could read and not walk away, like, riled up, I guess I should say.
• 12:28
  Um, and so, so I mean, it's, it's always been an interesting thing and, like, dealers I have known, like Mr. Ciocca, who rely on it, you know, for not just the retail auto news.
• 12:38
  Because without a doubt, like, they don't talk that much about dealers. Um- Yeah...
• 12:44
  and, and when I do see a dealer in there, it's, uh, like my friend Earl Stewart from Earl Stewart Toyota, what used to be frequently quoted in The Wall Street Journal because he's got such unique per- perspective on the industry.
• 12:54
  Um, you have, like, I've learned so much from you and from Dan Shine over the years, understanding the different components that it takes to cover the industry.
• 13:04
  I think a lot of our aud- audience thinks of it retailers first, but then they understand the OEM's obviously an important part, suppliers a very important part.
• 13:12
  The political climate or the, the geopolitical climate and what's happening on vehicles I think has just come to the forefront more than it ever has in the last three years because of Chinese EVs and what has been going on, you know, in those pandemic years.
• 13:26
  I feel like, you know, we, we kind of got caught sleeping a little bit, tried to play catch up. But obviously that's a major component to what is going to be happening on the front lines of the dealership.
• 13:36
  So when you go there and the type... Like, tell us about the type of reporting you're gonna be doing and, and why retail auto dealers should be paying attention to the coverage. Yeah, I mean, Mr.
• 13:46
  Ciocca's right, and it's, uh, good of you to take his advice, right? I mean, Automotive News is absolutely essential. I think anybody at any stage in an automotive career needs to be reading Automotive News.
• 13:57
  And whether you're a, a beginning engineer or accountant at a supplier or an automaker or you're a, you know...
• 14:04
  Honestly, even a, you know, I think a service tech, you know, any salesperson should know more about what's going on in the industry than what their boss is telling them they need to do for their job immediately.
• 14:13
  Yeah, I would say anybody, anybody that want, has an aspiration to continue to grow in the industry. We'll put it that way. Right.
• 14:20
  And then, but beyond that, you know, it's not just enough to know everything happening in your industry. [laughs] You need more of that outside context.
• 14:28
  You know, there's only so much about the global economy or financial markets or even, you know, the Federal Reserve that Automotive News can get into. But- Mm-hmm...
• 14:37
  you know, somebody like, uh, The Wall Street Journal with, uh, teams around the globe, you know, really, you know, top experts covering, you know, finance and economics, uh, and other...
• 14:47
  And you see parallels in other industries. Some things that are similar- Mm-hmm...
• 14:51
  some things that are different, and it's great to read, you know, 1,000-word, 3,000-word story that takes you deep into a company in an industry you wouldn't necessarily read about normally. Mm-hmm.
• 15:02
  But you can read that and say, "Oh yeah, that's like what we went through with a cyberattack. That's what we went through with, uh, our generational employees, [laughs] trying to communicate to Millennials and Gen Z."
• 15:14
  Hey, y'all. You know, and, um, and, and there are lessons to be learned and, and that perspective that comes from other, you know, high-level news outlets,
• 15:23
  um, you know, and the, and The Journal I think is, is one of the highest. Uh, did I answer your question or did I leave something hanging on the table? You did. No, you, no, you, you, you- I felt like I missed something.
• 15:32
  Um- But, uh, but that was, that was where we started- Why... No, I think, I think you answered- That's, I feel really strongly about it. It's, it's so important. You know, no one...
• 15:38
  And you shouldn't just read The Wall Street Journal, right? You should get- Mm-hmm...
• 15:41
  a variety inputs and information from a variety of sources so you can, you know, weigh, weigh a point of view against another, you know, um, hold each other accountable. You know, sometimes everybody gets it wrong.
• 15:54
  Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, what we try to have in the Fourth Estate, you know, sort of a self-correcting mechanism, you know?
• 16:00
  If, uh, [laughs] if The Wall Street Journal writes something and then The New York Times writes something that conflicts with it, you know, we're gonna prosec- we're gonna dig in and try to see, you know, who's right or how much of it's right.
• 16:10
  Is there more nuance? Yeah. And, uh, and hopefully, you know, that competition draws everybody to the same, you know, conclusions. Uh, but along the way, it's always good to, to get multiple perspectives.
• 16:21
  You know, we're in, in this seismic shift right now of technology and writing in general because of the emergence of, you know, AI and generative AI and, and now, um, you know, AI who is doing, that is doing research, um, deep research, agents that are browsing the web.
• 16:38
  It's obviously upending just about every industry, but I feel like, uh, the news industry is toward the front of the pack as far as the one that is, is being forced to have to, like, evolve and change in figuring out how is, how, how are the humans going to remain important moving forward in this world where everyone's trying to, like, just deploy...
• 17:01
  I don't know. Let's just be honest. Like, people try to deploy fast technology to get a mediocre response, right? Because they deploy the technology fast and the, the...
• 17:12
  And, like, how do we, how do we move forward as a news industry in this world where this is, people are, are able to get these fast answers that they maybe don't vet fully? Yeah.
• 17:22
  It's a complex question to answer in, like, the four minutes we have left, but- [laughs] Yeah, no, I mean- We could do a whole hour on this... yeah.
• 17:28
  I mean, it's challenging for news consumers, uh, whatever, you know, they're trying to learn about.
• 17:34
  But I think, you know, there is, there's definitely value in, um, in the trust that, that readers can have in a brand like The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Automotive News, et cetera. Um, and
• 17:49
  but also it's, there's no substitute for the actual reporting. I mean, AI- Mm-hmm... can give you an answer.
• 17:55
  Uh, you can spit anything into Google or Siri and they'll give you an answer and, and they're doing the best they can, but all they can use isThe information that's already been published by somebody.
• 18:05
  And that has to start with, uh, reporters on the ground, you know- Mm-hmm... editors and reporters, journalists making connections, uh, between, you know, one policy and another or one trend and another.
• 18:18
  You know, that's where the vo- you know, you have to go out and talk to the dealers, talk to the executives- Mm-hmm... talk to the analysts.
• 18:24
  You know, so it isn't just analyst reports and press releases that are being digested by an AI bot. Um- Mm-hmm... you know, the humans have to...
• 18:33
  You know, maybe they use those AI tools sometimes, but they have to be the ones, uh, you know, deciding kind of, you know, what's news and why is it news. You know, what... Pe- people can get the news.
• 18:44
  They can get the information. What did GM report in its earnings last week?
• 18:48
  But it's, you know, why, why were their earnings down, and how did the tariffs affect the earnings, and what does the company have to say about how they're moving forward? What do other people have to say about it?
• 19:00
  How confident are the dealers? And it's the journalists- Mm-hmm...
• 19:02
  who have to go out and ask those questions, get the good answers from trusted, you know, reliable sources, you know, data sources and the dealers themsel- dealer, you know, r- reliable people on the ground who will tell you what's going on.
• 19:15
  Um, you know, that's what, what we can provide. And I, I feel like that's our best defense against AI is to have- Yeah...
• 19:22
  the, the human intelligence, the human relations, uh, and relay those in a, you know, hopefully in a compelling, you know, storytelling way. I also feel like sentiment control is something that, uh, uh...
• 19:36
  And, and I'll say control, but, like, I mean keeping it on the rails, right?
• 19:39
  'Cause a lot of times you have this, um, like, ambitious, I'll call it ambitious sentiment that comes across from some people in the news industry.
• 19:46
  And, like, not getting political, but whatever you believe and whatever your beliefs are, right, there is a, there's no shortage of passionate sentiment that comes alongside the facts.
• 19:56
  And so I think that measured down the line humans who are saying, "We're reporting the facts. We're asking the question.
• 20:03
  We're building the connections," really, these are, like, harbingers of trust that we need and I think we'll continue to need as people start to believe less and less of what they see- With AI... with AI.
• 20:13
  With AI, in that front, too, you're right. I mean, the, the f- uh, it's, it's amazing the things you see already on social media, um- Yeah... and that look so real- Mm-hmm... or so nearly real. Uh- Mm-hmm...
• 20:27
  you know, you can believe them if you want to. You can kinda believe them if you want to. Maybe it's just a special- Yeah... effect, you know, on a real person.
• 20:34
  [laughs] Uh, but it's not gonna be long before they, they will just look so real, and you're gonna- Mm-hmm...
• 20:39
  have to have some provenance, you know, whether you say, "I can trust this video because it literally is coming from whitehouse.gov," right? Right. "That's how I believe it's the president." Right.
• 20:49
  Or, "It's coming from, you know, Fox News. It's coming from, uh, CBS. It's co- You know, it's some- somebody that we know is telling us they vetted it and that it's real."
• 21:00
  But all the other stuff you just see shared around on, you know, Twitter and Instagram is going to have a higher and higher propensity to be fake. Yeah. So, uh, last question 'cause we only have about a minute left.
• 21:12
  Um, where can we see and read and, and pay attention to your work moving forward? What exactly are you gonna be doing, and, and where can we, uh, see your work? Yeah.
• 21:21
  Well, um, you know, wsj.com, uh, is our, is our main, uh, platform. If you go... Autos is not the biggest part of The Wall Street Journal anymore. [laughs] I've noticed.
• 21:34
  Uh, it sorta was maybe 30 years ago, was a very big part. Uh, it's a little less now. But if you, if you look in the, across the top, there'll be tabs, uh, you know, politics and, uh, world. And one is business.
• 21:47
  And you drop down, and there's an auto button under that. Oh, I was in transportation. Yep, I see. And, uh, so- I read it every morning...
• 21:51
  you can always see, uh, you know, there's always a, a handful of stories, a story or three. And, um, you know, that's where we'll be feeding the beast.
• 21:58
  Uh, I'll have six reporters, uh, starting out, uh, two in Detroit, two in New York, and two in Chicago covering manufacturing. So I'll be over autos and manufacturing. Uh, look forward to, uh, you know, really,
• 22:13
  uh, having this great big stage to tell auto stories. Uh, but especially after, you know, my six and a half years at, at AN, uh, sharing some of the insights,
• 22:26
  uh, that I've gleaned about the retail business, you know, with the, the broader, uh, Wall Street Journal audience. I think, uh, they're gonna find this industry, that part of the industry as fascinating as I do. Yeah.
• 22:38
  Well, I, I hope so. Jamie, uh, it's been a pleasure to spend some time with you today. Thanks for giving us some time.
• 22:42
  And best of luck on, uh, your first, your first foray into The Wall Street Journal, which sounds like it was kind of a, a childhood dream. Thanks so much, Paul.
• 22:49
  You've, uh, you guys have been such great support for me all these years. I think that has to be his real name, the one that y- Michael said before, before you talked to him. I think that has to be his real name.
• 23:01
  Jamie Thaddeus Bartholomew Butters. [laughs] It has to be. Now that he's with The Wall Street Journal, he has to be official like that. You know what I mean? He's a forename, he's a forename person.
• 23:09
  Look, Jamie, the first time I ever met him, um, I all of a sudden was like, "I really like this guy's vibes." And you don't know, right? Yeah. Like, he's just a name in the, in the auto news that... You know what I mean?
• 23:19
  Yep. And I, I think he's, honestly, I think he's got Bill Pullman vibes. You know Bill Pullman? Yeah. He was the president in Independence Day. Uh-huh. That's Jamie Butters.
• 23:27
  But the fact that he's getting to go to kind of like a, you know, a, I won't say a childhood dream, but, like, when he started into journalism in college, the fact that Wall Street Journal was always, like, that aspirational, you know, trying to get there, it is, it's great to see him get there.
• 23:42
  But also- Yeah...
• 23:43
  like you, you kinda said this when we, before we started the interview, Kyle, that there's an opportunity now for a deeper understanding of the retail dealer to become br- more broadly known in, in Wall Street Journal because he didn't even know much about it when he started at Automotive News, and then he just built a lot of relationships there.
• 23:59
  So I'm looking forward to that part of it. I mean, he's, he's the guy you want on your team, period. But I hope he fact checks us. I mean, this is such a big part.
• 24:06
  He, you, you guys talked a little bit about an AI-driven world. I'd like to think it's gonna be, like, an AI-augmented or enhanced world.
• 24:13
  But journalism, to your point, where we started, is gonna be so critical for authenticating, I think. It's gonna, it's like a weird reversal. It's like human authentication- Mm...
• 24:24
  will be really important in a AI-authenticated world. Mm-hmm. So. So wild. Well, hey, look, Jamie, on behalf of the team here at ASOTU More Than Cars and our entire industry, kudos to you.
• 24:37
  Automotive News will miss you, but, uh, The Wall Street Journal crew I'm sure will get the best of what we know is possible in retail auto.
• 24:46
  If you haven't gone to Jamie's LinkedIn, congratulate him on the new role, and, uh, follow him for all the stuff that he's gonna be sharing, uh, with much more culture, uh, at The Wall Street Journal.
• 24:57
  On behalf of Paul Jay Daly, Michael Cirillo, and myself, Kyle Moss here, we'll see you next time here on Auto Collapse.
• 25:04
  Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U dot com.
• 25:16
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 25:24
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Welcome to Auto Collapse. [laughs] Why are we recording? [laughs] Are we rolling yet?
• 25:42
  Not yet.