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Most Employers Won't Be Covid Testing Returning Workers · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Well. As US employers continue
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to reopen their businesses and the economy overall, one of
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  Speaker 1: the key questions being asked is to what degree are
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  Speaker 1: employers responsible for maintaining a healthy, uh and safe work environment.
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  Speaker 1: To get some answers, we welcome Ema Court. She's a
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  Speaker 1: healthcare reporter for Bloomberg News, and thanks so much for
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  Speaker 1: joining us here. Give us a sense of maybe the
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  Speaker 1: you know, the whole paradigm of what we're seeing as
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  Speaker 1: businesses open up, what are they doing to ensure the
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  Speaker 1: health and safety of their employees coming back? You know,
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  Speaker 1: work play safety has become you know, a really kind
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  Speaker 1: of new and different paradigm today. Right as employers, you know,
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  Speaker 1: some of them have been you know, operating throughout the pandemic.
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  Speaker 1: Some of them are starting to push to return to work,
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  Speaker 1: you know, for the first time pushing, you know, maybe
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  Speaker 1: smaller coherts of employees at the beginning. And as part
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  Speaker 1: of that, you know, we're seeing a lot of different
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  Speaker 1: measures being deployed. We're you know, we've been talking about
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  Speaker 1: temperature screenings for a long time. UM, symptom checkers, which means,
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  Speaker 1: you know, maybe your employer sends you a list of
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  Speaker 1: four questions you have to answer before you come into
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  Speaker 1: the office. You know, do have symptoms? Things like that,
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  Speaker 1: have you been in high risk situations like a big
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  Speaker 1: group of people or or an event indoors? Things like that, UM,
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  Speaker 1: you know, masks that work, you know, even physical barriers
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  Speaker 1: like plexiglass for instance, hand sanitizer everywhere. UM. But interestingly,
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  Speaker 1: testing which has become such a first line mechanism of
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  Speaker 1: ensuring public health in the community. It's it's sort of
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  Speaker 1: our only option absence of vaccine in terms of ensuring
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  Speaker 1: this virus doesn't you know, spread really rapidly from person
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  Speaker 1: to person. That has actually been a really small element
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  Speaker 1: of employers back to back to work pushes. And there
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  Speaker 1: are a variety of reasons for that, but a big
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  Speaker 1: one is caused and and the sort of crucial limitations
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  Speaker 1: of how these tests can be deployed. You can't really
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  Speaker 1: test someone and say, okay, you know, you're all clear
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  Speaker 1: and we don't have to worry about you anymore getting sick.
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  Speaker 1: You know, That's that's not how these tests work. They're
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  Speaker 1: the diagnostic tests that we have right now. Say at
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  Speaker 1: this moment in time, when you were tested, you do
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  Speaker 1: not have COVID N team. You know, there's also an
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  Speaker 1: issue of false negative, but mainly there's an issue of
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  Speaker 1: what if you leave the testing site and you go
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  Speaker 1: into the parking lot and you get sick. You know that,
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  Speaker 1: how helpful is the test then? Um, So these are
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  Speaker 1: things employers are really kind of wrestling with as they
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  Speaker 1: think about whether to have employees at work and what
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  Speaker 1: kinds of mechanisms to have in placed there, what our
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  Speaker 1: employer is responsible for and who is regulating that is
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  Speaker 1: that the unions? Is there anything in federal government suggestions? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: there's there's been a variety of recommendations in terms of
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  Speaker 1: how to return to work, and it sort of depends
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  Speaker 1: on where you look. Everyone has sort of a booklet
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  Speaker 1: of recommendations or requirements. In some cases, you know, local governments,
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  Speaker 1: state governments. The CDC has recommendations. Um, you know, E e
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  Speaker 1: e o C has put out recommendations even specifically on
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  Speaker 1: testing thing you can use diagnostic prestoom, but there are
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  Speaker 1: other kinds of testing. You can't make a requirement to
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  Speaker 1: go back to work, So it depends on your the
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  Speaker 1: industry and where you are and and things like that,
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  Speaker 1: um and it. But it does present the sort of
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  Speaker 1: patchwork of requirements and recommendations depending on where you are.
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  Speaker 1: And of course local conditions factor into this a lot too.
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  Speaker 1: Rite you know, I'm here in New York where you know,
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  Speaker 1: obviously it was a very big hot spot you know,
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  Speaker 1: earlier in the pandemic, and now you know, perhaps more
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  Speaker 1: people are returning to work, whereas other parts of the
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  Speaker 1: country the situation in terms of COVID nineteen is very different.
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  Speaker 1: So I am a to what extent do we know
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  Speaker 1: kind of a liability businesses may have from employees saying
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  Speaker 1: you're assuming them because you brought me back into a
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  Speaker 1: unsafe work environment. Yeah, you know, it's a really interesting
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  Speaker 1: and important question and one that's sort of still being
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  Speaker 1: figured out right now. I mean, you know, with regards
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  Speaker 1: to testing specifically, we've seen, you know, a union that
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  Speaker 1: represents employees and casinos in Vegas to certain casinos saying
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  Speaker 1: you need to make you know, testing a part of
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  Speaker 1: the return to work strategy like this has to be
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  Speaker 1: a mandatory part of this, of this, of this push.
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  Speaker 1: But we've also seen you know, a lot of lawsuits
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  Speaker 1: being filed over and this is something that's probably going
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  Speaker 1: to be litigated for a long time. Um and it's unclear.
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  Speaker 1: You know, A big question that comes up around that
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  Speaker 1: is can you prove that you've got coronavirus, you've got
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  Speaker 1: COVID nineteen out work? And it's not it's clear how
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  Speaker 1: well anyone would be able to prove that. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it depends on what the bar is, you know, how
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  Speaker 1: how the bar is set by court, well will be
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  Speaker 1: the test case. Is there a test case out there
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  Speaker 1: yet or do we have to wait and see for
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  Speaker 1: a few more months. I think this is gonna take
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  Speaker 1: a while to settle. You know, many employers, especially large
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  Speaker 1: employers that operate in many jurisdictions, are still wrestling with
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  Speaker 1: these issues. And I think we are also going to
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  Speaker 1: see standards evolved and change, um as testing technology gets better,
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  Speaker 1: for instance, um as people set standards for different industries.
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  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of employers that operate in places
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  Speaker 1: around the country have tried to, you know, because they're
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  Speaker 1: facing the sort of patchwork of different requirements UM and
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  Speaker 1: Guidance have tried to make, you know, meet sort of
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  Speaker 1: the highest standards, right because it's easier if you're operating
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  Speaker 1: in multiple jurisdictions UM. But you know, the bar maybe
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  Speaker 1: lower for you know, small businesses or other kinds of players.
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  Speaker 1: So it's going to be really interesting to see how
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  Speaker 1: these things chake out and to see if employers become
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  Speaker 1: you know, go out there and say we are setting
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  Speaker 1: the highest possible standards for our workplace here and maybe
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  Speaker 1: become a big incentive for employees to want to work
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  Speaker 1: there exactly. It's going to be fascinating. I mean, will
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  Speaker 1: countries even be suing other countries if travelers brought it
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  Speaker 1: in our thanks to m Court healthcare reporter from Bloomberg. Now,
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  Speaker 1: let's move to the oil market, because we're seeing Saudi
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  Speaker 1: Arabia raise prices, We're seeing equities rally, and that's all
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  Speaker 1: helping oil to stay above forty arrow. Somebody watching this
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  Speaker 1: and the natural gas markets very closely is Stephen Short,
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  Speaker 1: president of the Short Group always thrilled to have Stephen
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  Speaker 1: on Stephen Saudi is raising prices? Is that a little
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  Speaker 1: bit dangerous in terms of the balance when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to OPEC? Absolutely, I think so, Vanni. Look, it is
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  Speaker 1: the first week of July, which only means we have
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  Speaker 1: about seven more weeks demand or peak demand left in
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  Speaker 1: the season. And in fact, when we look at this market,
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  Speaker 1: historically demand will peak by the end of this month
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  Speaker 1: beginning of August. So so once we get into August UH,
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  Speaker 1: this season's peak demand is going to pull off into
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  Speaker 1: the exit ramp, and then as of course we transition
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  Speaker 1: into the fall, demand will continue to fall. Now, keep
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  Speaker 1: in mind this is not obviously a normal year, and
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  Speaker 1: demand is already supremely lagging relative to normal. For instance,
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  Speaker 1: here in the United States, we should be boiling upwards
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  Speaker 1: of well over seventeen million barrels a day UH, and
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  Speaker 1: last week's e I report we just breached the fourteen
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  Speaker 1: million barrel a day, So we're accumulating relative to historical norms,
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  Speaker 1: a significant glut in the market with regard to crude oil,
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  Speaker 1: the same situation in gasoline. So with the current situation,
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  Speaker 1: given where we are at this point of the calendar,
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  Speaker 1: we're certainly playing with a with a dangerous market at
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  Speaker 1: this point. So, Stephen, the news we woke to this
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  Speaker 1: morning is that Warren Buffett is buying some assets from
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  Speaker 1: Dominion Resources the pipeline business. Is that any way and
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  Speaker 1: should that in any way be interpreted as a call
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  Speaker 1: that warrants calling the bottom in natural gas prices. Well,
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  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I'm certainly relieved that that
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  Speaker 1: Mr Buffett is making this purchase. Of course, with what
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  Speaker 1: we saw last week with Chesapeake and some of the
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  Speaker 1: other major bankruptcies we've seen since the market collapsed back
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  Speaker 1: in April, UH, certainly the signs were there that we
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  Speaker 1: were going to see consolidation in this industry. I don't
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  Speaker 1: think Mr. Buffett's purchase is going to be the the
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  Speaker 1: the last UH transaction that we've seen in this market.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to see a marketplace that is much smaller
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  Speaker 1: as UH companies with with good acreage, prime assets that
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  Speaker 1: are having difficulty UH we'll look to bail on this market.
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  Speaker 1: So so clearly what we're looking at here is is
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  Speaker 1: a market that you know, primarily natural gas as as
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  Speaker 1: that fuel of the future, UH, certainly giving its stance
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  Speaker 1: in the marketplace. That is the thinking man's uh choice
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  Speaker 1: to be had as we look forward. My only caveat
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  Speaker 1: here is are my concern I should say, is kind
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  Speaker 1: of the the the lurch that we're seeing with certain
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  Speaker 1: aspects in the government UH going away or discouraging investment
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  Speaker 1: in and in hydrocarbons, especially natural gas. But Mr Buffett's
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  Speaker 1: entry into this market at this juncture, it makes sense
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  Speaker 1: these assets are being had on the cheap. Obviously, he's
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  Speaker 1: Warren Buffett, he knows what he's doing, uh, And I'm
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  Speaker 1: taking it as a relief because my concerns regarding government
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  Speaker 1: uh interference in this market side. I don't think he'd
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  Speaker 1: be making this assumption if that was really something to
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  Speaker 1: be concerned about. You know, it goes again tuition, Stephen,
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  Speaker 1: not that we should really ever use tuition on anything,
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  Speaker 1: particularly on the markets. But natural gas producers for the
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  Speaker 1: thirty six consecutive months have boosted production at these prices.
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  Speaker 1: How does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely it is. It
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  Speaker 1: is a bit of a head scratcher. A lot of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that production Vanni over, as you said, of the past
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  Speaker 1: three years has been what's called associated gas production, so
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  Speaker 1: that that is gas making its way to the market
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  Speaker 1: that that's not being drilled for. That is to say,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: this was crude al UH that's being drilled for, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: gas deposits associated with the those barrels being pulled out
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of the ground. That gas is coming up as well,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and that is certainly adding to the pool. So I
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  Speaker 1: do think we're at that point. UH. For instance, here
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, which is now the epicenter of basically the
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  Speaker 1: global natural gas market, we've seen a significant decline in
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: drilling permits since February so and in fact, apple h
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: in natural gas production Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia specifically UH,
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  Speaker 1: that production has been falling month over month now for
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  Speaker 1: about the last seven or eight months. So it's been
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  Speaker 1: a slow catch up. I think, Fannie that the issue
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  Speaker 1: here is that the gas market is there's a limit
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  Speaker 1: engineering wise to the amount of gas you can actually
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  Speaker 1: pull off. But now it's a demand side. Hey, Stephen,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: thanks so much as always for that update on all
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: things energy. It was appreciate getting your view, Stephen Short,
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  Speaker 1: president of the Short Group in Pennsylvania, talking about UH
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: crude oil globally, natural gas, particularly here in the US. Again,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Warren Buffett buying the pipeline or certain pipeline assets from
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  Speaker 1: Dominion Energy. Well, for many investors in this market, given
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the voluntility, they are simply trying to preserve wealth as
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: best they can. Uh. And that includes some of the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: ultra wealthy as well. Michael Sane felt he's a chairman
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  Speaker 1: of founder of Tiger twenty one, and Tiger twenty one
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  Speaker 1: is really a unique organization. It's a peer a member
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: ship organization for high net worth uh, wealth creators and preservers.
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  Speaker 1: So Michael gets a really interesting viewpoint there from his members, uh,
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  Speaker 1: and he joins us now. Michael SnO felt, thanks so
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: much for joining us once again again. I guess since
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  Speaker 1: the last time we talked to you, we've had just
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  Speaker 1: this tremendous pandemic sweep the world, creating a tremendous amount
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  Speaker 1: of economic uh, you know, uncertainty. How are your members
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  Speaker 1: viewing the world today and how are they positioning their portfolios? Great?
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Paul. You know, our members have
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: been weathering the storm, and and that's how they think
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: about it. Are members are primarily not exclusively first generation
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: wealth creators and mostly entrepreneurs, investors, and executives. So these
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: are these are the people who've had to create wealth
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: over an entire generation, and they've been through different storms.
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  Speaker 1: This is certainly unique, but they've been doing two things,
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  Speaker 1: always looking for opportunities, very select of lee. It's not
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: business as usual. The way we say it is our
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: window for business is open. Individuals say this, our window
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: for business is open, but the bar is much higher.
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  Speaker 1: But also we've been raising cash because right now everything
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: seems very rosy. It's not just today's ebulent market. The
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, the market has been coming back,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but members aren't convinced that it's a one way street.
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  Speaker 1: You could have some rough times coming up later this
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: year when p p P runs out. Uh And obviously
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the pandemic has hit different businesses quite differently. If you're
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: a retailer, you're thinking very differently than if you're a
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: tech company that's doing extremely well. Yeah, the PPP you
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: reopened today. The new deadline to apply is August eight,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: so a few more weeks for people to apply. Michael
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  Speaker 1: any idea how much wealth was destroyed by the pandemic. Well, um,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: most of our members, because they have a low exposure
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: to the public market. It's only about are in the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: around breaking even. You know, if you were a high
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: tech investor, the Nasdaq is ahead for the year quite amazingly.
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  Speaker 1: So we have members who, if they have well diversified portfolios,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: have losses in the single digits. But just like the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: average of a man and a horse's three legs, some
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of our members have done extremely well and others are
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: learning from them how they were positioned to do so
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: well and thinking about how to be protective on the downside.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So it's it's across the board, but generally it's probably
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a break even to just down one or two or
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: three points at this point. So, Michael's interesting the on
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the M and A front. Just over the last twenty
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: four hours, we saw famed at value investor Warren Buffett
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: make a ten billion dollar acquisition of some uh liquid fieda,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: some natural gas assets, some pipelines, suggesting to a lot
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: of investors that maybe he sees the bottom in that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: particular subset of the market. Art your members are they saying, Hey,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take advantage of this market uh, you
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: know meltdown that we've seen, even despite the partial comeback
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: we've had, that's maybe an opportunity to really bottom fish
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in certain sectors. Oh for sure. You know. I think
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: what's made our members a unique cohord is the fact
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: that they can roll up their shirt sleeves and uh
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: chuck and jive if you will, to opportunities. And so
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: they've they've kind of had a twist in their portfolio.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: On the one hand, they've bolstered their cash. We uh,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: we recognize over the last ten years um through our
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: asset allocation how members are diversifying their portfolio and cash
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: has been around twelve percent. Well, in the last three months,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: cash has grown to It's a dramatic change, call it
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: a flight to safety. But what that really means is
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: members are building resources to pounce on opportunities. I know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: in one when the real estate market was down, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: bought a portfolio for twenty cents on the dollar that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: tripled in value over the next few years. And these
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: kind of opportunities only occur uh in times like this.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So you have to both have the security to know
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: that you can weather the storm, but that allows you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to be on the lookout for unique opportunities. And I
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: would say that balance that twist, if you will, more
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: security and working really hard to find opportunities characterize as
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a good number of our members. Very briefly, Michael, what's
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the relationship to real estate? How has it changed? Well,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: real estate is our biggest allocation, about twenty percent of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: our assets, and today we have about eighty billion dollars
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: and we don't manage money. It's our members individual managing
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: over seven ninety members. Um. Real state is the story
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of the pandemic. If you're in the retail area or
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the hotel area, it's uh, you know, been a heap
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of trouble, but industrial real estate has done amazingly well. Uh,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: and adjust as you were asking me, pouncing on opportunities. Obviously,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: if you were diversified, well, even if you were in
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the real estate in retail, you hopefully have other assets
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: now and now there are opportunities to look at. So
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: we have members looking at shopping malls and hotel chains
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to see where the opportunities are because there's going to
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: be great opportunities there. Michael, we will check back in
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: with you on that, Michael Sonofeld, chairman and founder of
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Tiger twenty one. Well, we are broadcasting live from the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Homburg Interactive Broger Studio and it is time for Bloomberg Opinion.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: At ten forty nine on Wall Streets, It's time to
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: check in with Bloomberg Opinion columnist, author of a biography
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of Henry Kissinger, the author of Civilization, The West and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the Rest, and of course senior fellow at the Hoover
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Institution at Stanford. Neil Ferguson is very welcome to the program. Neil,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: you're the man who coined the word chi America, and
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: you say in one of your latest columns that you
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: agree with Henry Kissinger that we've seen the opening gambit
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: in a cold war to this between the US and China.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: How did relations between Beijing and Washington, Sara is so
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: badly Well, it's a it's a great question. I was
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: one of the people who came up with shi America
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: back in two thousand seven, along with Mark Shilrik, but
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: we always said it wouldn't last. The word shi America
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: was a pun on the word chimera. The only question
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: was when things would unravel. I thought it would be
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: around the financial crisis, but that didn't happen. I think
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the real turning point has been J and pings increasingly
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: assertive foreign policy, and I see the presidency of Donald
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Trump is in some motion just a reaction to that,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: because it kind of the penny dropped with ordinary Americans
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that China was getting most of the benefits of chi America.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: And finally someone came long from outside the political class
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and articulated that concern, and that somebody was Donald Trump. Alright, So, Neil,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: from your perspective, what do you think China strategy is here? Well,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I think there's obviously a priority on readying writing the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: economic ship, and I think one has to recognize that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the principal concern for Juan Ping is actually making sure
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that the Chinese economy, whether it's the storm of COVID nineteen.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: But meanwhile, I think the subplot is asserting China's power
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: not only regionally but globally in a whole range of
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: different ways, ranging from the One Belt, One Road initiative,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: which is very much Sejan Ping's brainchild, two more conventional
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: assertions of power in the South China Sea and with
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: perspect to Taiwan, and then fighting the tech war, which
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: which I think is really he here. Sometimes people forget
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: that that that the tech war over the future of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Hawei and its role in global five D network is
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: more important than the trade war that Donald Trump launched
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: in early tween, and I think from a Chinese bantage point,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: it's a very major concern that right now there's a
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Damocles sword over Huawei. In September, the Commerce Department is
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: intending to cut Huawei off from imported semi conductors from
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: companies like Taiwan TSMC. So there's a whole range of
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: different ways in which this told war is being waged.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: But I think the key thing is is not assume
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that somehow Donald Trump started it. I think it's much
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: more accurate to say that China started in and Trump
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: was in some ways a reaction to that. And in fact, Neil,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: what you're saying brings up the question of whether she
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Jin Ping is actually committed to market reform to the
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: extent that predecessors, or is he willing to give up
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: some free market you know, developments, if you like, in
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: order to return his community to sort of a more
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: communist community. Well, well, I think it's crucial to realize
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that she j and Ping has quite consciously shifted away
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: from policies of economic liberalization, and that one of the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: signatures of his time as General Secretary of the Communist Party,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: has been an increase in the power of the state
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: owned enterprises, and also, I think, perhaps just as importantly,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a real tightening ideologically, which is very obvious in Chinese universities.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I'm a visiting professor at SIWA, but I've seen the
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: atmosphere change from one of relative openness to one in
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: which people are losing their jobs or or indeed being
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: subjected to arrest for essentially lecturing on the realities of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Chinese history and expressing criticism of the of this new
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: ideological tightening. I do think there's one qualification, though. One
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: way that the Chinese are trying to counter Trump is
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: by appealing to Wall Street and saying, yeah, we may,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: we may become in as, but come on in to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: our financial markets and we will make it easier for
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you to come in, not to get out, of course,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: because China still has capital controls. But I think one
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: of the interesting subplots here is the way in which
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Beijing is pitching to Wall Street, and that's a pitch
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that getting quite a warm reception from companies ranging from
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: JP Morgan to the big credit card companies. That that's
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: an exception that the basic trend. It's a reimposition of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the party's control and a shift away from the more
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: the more liberal era when we used to talk about
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: ultimately the remnumb being a conversible currency. I think that's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: all forgotten that. Neil, thank you so much for joining us.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Appreciate your thoughts on this important and evolving topic. Neil Ferguson,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: He's a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: is also a Bloomberg Opinion columns. Thanks for listening to
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts or whatever a podcast platform you prefer.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on Twitter at Bonnie Quinn, and
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.