Latest / The You Project / #1545 Psychopaths In Romance - Tracy-lea Connor

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#1545 Psychopaths In Romance - Tracy-lea Connor · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a groovers welcome to another installing the shots
0:03
Speaker 1: so you project of course, Tracy Lee Connor from the
0:08
Speaker 1: other side. Well, it depends where you're at, doesn't it.
0:10
Speaker 1: From where I am the other side of the country,
0:13
Speaker 1: on the western side. I'm on the eastern side of Australia. Hi, Trace,
0:20
Speaker 1: how are you? Hey?
0:21
Speaker 2: You going, Craig. I'm awesome.
0:23
Speaker 1: Oh, you are always good. You know, you're one of
0:27
Speaker 1: those people. I mean, we've met quite a few times
0:30
Speaker 1: and you are you are among other things, like you're
0:34
Speaker 1: a superstar in your own right. But you've been a
0:37
Speaker 1: follower and a listener and an attendee to my stuff
0:41
Speaker 1: for how long, like a long time, right, I'd.
0:44
Speaker 2: Say four or five years, And it just what I'd
0:49
Speaker 2: do is just gather my toolbox. I've got a toolbox.
0:52
Speaker 2: Between you and my psychologist, I have, you know, check
0:56
Speaker 2: everything in the toolbox. And that's where it is.
1:00
Speaker 1: Why I know it's definitely more than four or five years,
1:02
Speaker 1: because COVID was four four and a half years ago,
1:06
Speaker 1: and it was way before that.
1:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must have been seventeen or eighteen then, or
1:13
Speaker 2: maybe eighteen.
1:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a good six anyway. Anyway, among other things.
1:19
Speaker 1: You've written a book called Chemo Brain, which we're not
1:21
Speaker 1: going to revisit today other than just to mention it
1:24
Speaker 1: because that we've chatted quite a bit about this. But give,
1:30
Speaker 1: just give people before we talk about psychopaths in romantic relationships,
1:35
Speaker 1: which is what we're covering off today, just give people
1:38
Speaker 1: a quick the one minute overview because a lot of
1:42
Speaker 1: people listening to this won't have met you in inverted commas,
1:45
Speaker 1: so give them the snapshot of the one minute synthesis,
1:51
Speaker 1: the one minute snapshot synopsis of your your Chemo Brain
1:57
Speaker 1: book and journey.
2:00
Speaker 2: So twenty eleven, I had breast cancer and so I
2:05
Speaker 2: was given massive doses of chemotherapy and all of a sudden,
2:10
Speaker 2: I thought I could just go back to work, And
2:12
Speaker 2: all of a sudden went back to work and nothing
2:14
Speaker 2: made sense. So long story short. Over time, I thought
2:19
Speaker 2: it would get better, as everybody told me I would,
2:21
Speaker 2: but I actually got worse. And through my beautiful community online,
2:27
Speaker 2: I found some amazing people that helped me determine that
2:31
Speaker 2: I had long term chemo brain. So I couldn't go
2:35
Speaker 2: back to work. I had to try and find a
2:37
Speaker 2: way to live, had to get some insurance, so I
2:40
Speaker 2: did the David and glything and was quite successful, and
2:44
Speaker 2: then I wrote a book about it. But mainly when
2:48
Speaker 2: I started writing books that seemed to be about chemo bran,
2:51
Speaker 2: it was actually more about my personal story because people
2:55
Speaker 2: like Ian Gawler agreed with me that there was something
2:59
Speaker 2: more to do cancer than just you know, random bad luck.
3:04
Speaker 2: It was a lot of it was trauma induced, and
3:07
Speaker 2: it kind of segues into what we're talking about today
3:10
Speaker 2: because I had been in a narcissistic relationship and the
3:13
Speaker 2: trauma of that I believe most definitely brought on my
3:17
Speaker 2: breast cancer.
3:18
Speaker 1: Wow, so you wow, Okay, okay, just quickly before we
3:23
Speaker 1: move on, when did you first hear the term? Not
3:28
Speaker 1: that I trust your judgment now with dates, because you've
3:30
Speaker 1: already proven in two minutes your shit with recall and
3:33
Speaker 1: shit with dates. When did you first hear the term
3:37
Speaker 1: chemo brain? When did you hear that? What year? For
3:40
Speaker 1: the first time?
3:44
Speaker 2: Two thousand and thirteen.
3:47
Speaker 1: Right, so that's eleven years ago. And back then it
3:51
Speaker 1: wasn't really I mean, it was more like just a
3:54
Speaker 1: colloquial term than anything that was held in any kind
3:58
Speaker 1: of medical regard, right exactly.
4:02
Speaker 2: It was like baby brain, and that would get it
4:04
Speaker 2: would get discarded and laughed off in the same sense,
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Speaker 2: Oh you've got baby brow here, You'll get over it.
4:10
Speaker 2: That's all the doctors said. But now they caught that.
4:13
Speaker 2: My doctor rash Asher from the Cedar Sinai Hospital, the
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Speaker 2: medical director for cancer Survivorship, says that we need to
4:22
Speaker 2: call it cancer related cognitive impairment because it's not always
4:26
Speaker 2: from the chemo. It can often be from the cancer.
4:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow, And so I'm writing that cancer related
4:35
Speaker 1: cognitive impairment CRCI. Yeah. I probably shouldn't write that down
4:41
Speaker 1: in the middle of an interview, but fuck it, I
4:43
Speaker 1: want to remember that term, so I wrote it down.
4:46
Speaker 3: So do you you think that because you you've been
4:52
Speaker 3: like I know you were in one significant toxic, destructive
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Speaker 3: relationship with.
5:00
Speaker 1: Psychopath? Is that just have you had multiple relationships like that? Like,
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Speaker 1: do you think you've been you've had relationships more than
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Speaker 1: one psychopath? One is enough, by the way.
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Speaker 2: One is enough. But the reason I'm talking to you
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Speaker 2: today one was I didn't even know what a narcissist was.
5:21
Speaker 2: I had never heard the term. I didn't understand what
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Speaker 2: it was. I was in this crazy toxic destructive relationship.
5:28
Speaker 2: But knowing me being the researcher that I am, I
5:30
Speaker 2: had to find an answer. I just went, what is
5:33
Speaker 2: going on with this? One of us is crazy? And
5:37
Speaker 2: so I you know, when I finally got out of
5:40
Speaker 2: that relationship, of which I'm kind of grateful I had it,
5:44
Speaker 2: because it was the first thing that really determined how
5:47
Speaker 2: much I did not love myself, because I allowed people
5:51
Speaker 2: to really fuck with my head in a way that
5:54
Speaker 2: nearly a nearly killed me with cancer, and be what
5:58
Speaker 2: that didn't happen on early committed side of it. So
6:02
Speaker 2: it was really, you know, like how must you not
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Speaker 2: love yourself? And so then started a fifteen year journey
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Speaker 2: with my wonderful counselor to then get to the point
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Speaker 2: where I'm madly in love with myself and I don't
6:19
Speaker 2: care about anybody else. I'm so happy.
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Speaker 1: That's not true. You care about other people, just my family.
6:26
Speaker 2: I do, but I don't yearn for that. I don't
6:29
Speaker 2: have that yearning for a significant other to talk to
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Speaker 2: validate me and make me feel like anything. You know,
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Speaker 2: It's like, unfortunately, it's when women feel that way that
6:43
Speaker 2: they just feel, Oh, if I only met the right person,
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Speaker 2: that could see me as I am, and then they're
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Speaker 2: so open to be manipulated when they meet these people
6:52
Speaker 2: because they're quite under the radar. So the first the
6:56
Speaker 2: relationship I had was with a narcissist that we its
7:00
Speaker 2: just not really all that calculating. I probably didn't even
7:04
Speaker 2: realize it was a narcissist. But the ones that I
7:07
Speaker 2: had after that, I had one very short one that
7:10
Speaker 2: I recognized it for what it was very quickly because
7:13
Speaker 2: of my experience, and that was the covert narcissist, which
7:17
Speaker 2: we're going to cover today. And since then, I've also
7:22
Speaker 2: mainly people around me, people I care about, people I've
7:25
Speaker 2: been significantly in their lives, are being caught up with
7:31
Speaker 2: the covert narcissist. And for the fact that I speak
7:34
Speaker 2: fluent narcissist, I don't stay long in their lives when
7:38
Speaker 2: they meet one of these guys, because they take one
7:42
Speaker 2: look at me opening my mouth for five minutes and go,
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Speaker 2: oh my god, she's going to out me and I
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Speaker 2: need to get rid of her out of this person's life,
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Speaker 2: which they do very quickly.
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Speaker 1: Wow Wow, all right, So what I mean, I don't
7:55
Speaker 1: know how this is going to work because, as with
7:57
Speaker 1: every podcast, I just make shit up as I go.
8:00
Speaker 1: So what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm
8:04
Speaker 1: going to read some of what you sent me today.
8:07
Speaker 1: And we don't normally like I get lots and lots
8:10
Speaker 1: of emails, I get emails and messages, and you, by
8:14
Speaker 1: the way, we know who you are, and you're credible
8:16
Speaker 1: and you're not just some weirdo saying I want to
8:19
Speaker 1: be on the show. But I got your message today
8:20
Speaker 1: and I went, that is actually really worth chatting about.
8:25
Speaker 1: And so it's been a very quick turnaround because I
8:28
Speaker 1: got your email this morning and you said, at some
8:30
Speaker 1: stage can I chat about this? I read it and
8:32
Speaker 1: I went, yeah, that's actually I think it's really helpful
8:36
Speaker 1: potentially for a lot of people. For me, I'm reasonably
8:40
Speaker 1: familiar with sociopaths and psychopaths narcissist because of my own
8:46
Speaker 1: experiences and my research and my work and all of that.
8:48
Speaker 1: But I think I think a lot of people think
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Speaker 1: that a psychopath is an axe wielding murderer, yes, when
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Speaker 1: sometimes they're actually socially skilled, charming, good looking, high iq smooth,
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Speaker 1: outwardly kind fucking warm, caring. But we kind of find
9:12
Speaker 1: out that although the last three things anyway, are basically
9:17
Speaker 1: a show. So I'm going to read some of this
9:21
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to hit the pause button then
9:22
Speaker 1: get you to unpack various bits. So Psychopaths in Romantic
9:27
Speaker 1: Relationships was the heading with a state of domestic violence.
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Speaker 1: I don't think there are enough conversations highlighting this type
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Speaker 1: of relationship and the playbook and red flags that are there.
9:40
Speaker 1: All right, let's start with that. What's a red flag
9:44
Speaker 1: if somebody, I'm sure our audience is a little bit
9:48
Speaker 1: educated because of David Gillespie, of whom you're a fan,
9:51
Speaker 1: I understand, oh, total fan.
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Speaker 2: And the other thing you know, and like he talks
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Speaker 2: about do not do not engage with the junkyard dog,
10:03
Speaker 2: and he's right, do not engage. But the covert narcissist
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Speaker 2: that I'm talking about isn't the junkyard dog, and isn't
10:11
Speaker 2: even the good looking junkyard dog. He's a wolf. He's
10:14
Speaker 2: a wolf in sheep's clothing. He lives his life in
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Speaker 2: a way that other people and he's usually got a
10:22
Speaker 2: hard lock, sad story. Something dreadful happened to him in
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Speaker 2: one of the covert narcissists that I had in my
10:29
Speaker 2: life this was true. It was devastating that he did
10:33
Speaker 2: lose his daughter in a car accident. It was a
10:35
Speaker 2: very sad thing. But he played that really well so
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Speaker 2: that when you feel so deeply sorry for somebody, you
10:42
Speaker 2: do ignore some of the flags that do come up
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Speaker 2: because oh, God has been through so much. So and
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Speaker 2: there's a playbook, So there's usually a sad story there is.
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Speaker 2: Then there becomes something to hook you in, which is
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Speaker 2: usually the sad story. Or they're very humble, They sit
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Speaker 2: back and they don't say much, and they look like
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Speaker 2: they're the quiet person. They really don't say, but they
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Speaker 2: don't say. But the reasons they don't say too much
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Speaker 2: is they do want to hide who they are, and
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Speaker 2: the less they say, the more people can just assume
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Speaker 2: that they're great people because they don't want to give up.
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Speaker 2: You know, they're not really. I think COVIDT narcissists aren't
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Speaker 2: as genuinely really really smart as the normal high level,
11:27
Speaker 2: grandiose type of narcissist. So then what they do is
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Speaker 2: that they come across say what I call a target.
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Speaker 2: It would be a person and it's usually a woman
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Speaker 2: who's nearly always in any narcissistic relationship, there has to
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Speaker 2: be an EmPATH because the covert narcissist is in pain
11:48
Speaker 2: because of whatever sad thing happened to him. The EmPATH
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Speaker 2: will just tune into that and go, oh, I can
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Speaker 2: fix you, I can make you happy, and then some
12:00
Speaker 2: like that begins. And then what happens is it's always
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Speaker 2: these long drawn out conversations over hours, days, weeks, and
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Speaker 2: you go and the first thing that the person says
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Speaker 2: when they meet these guys, oh my god, he listened
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Speaker 2: to me. We talked for hours and days and weeks.
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Speaker 2: But what they don't realize is that covert nasis is
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Speaker 2: just garnishing information data, what makes you tick, what makes you,
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Speaker 2: where your buttons to suppress are, what your insecurities are,
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Speaker 2: and he gathers all this while you're thinking he's madly
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Speaker 2: in love with you. It will generally move very fast,
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Speaker 2: this type of relationship, and it'll generally involve the words
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Speaker 2: like soul mate, never met anybody like you before, wish
12:50
Speaker 2: I'd met you forty years ago, I had.
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Speaker 1: This level of never had this level of connection.
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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then where you where it comes into
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Speaker 2: your field, Craig, is that we all know that when
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Speaker 2: people fall in love, things change literally physiologically change in
13:10
Speaker 2: your brain, so you know, your decision making process and
13:15
Speaker 2: all sorts of things, even in a healthy in love relationship,
13:18
Speaker 2: are impaired to some degree. And then sometimes when all
13:22
Speaker 2: that settles down, the relationship, you know, sometimes doesn't work,
13:25
Speaker 2: and you know that's just a healthy in love relationship.
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Speaker 2: But with a covert narcissist, he love bombs very fast,
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Speaker 2: very quick. He does things like, you know, pulls the
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Speaker 2: car up, puts the air conditioner on ten minutes before
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Speaker 2: we're going to get in the car, and he does
13:44
Speaker 2: things that no one has ever done for you. And
13:46
Speaker 2: then your brain then you know, you still take a
13:51
Speaker 2: bit of time, but then all of a sudden you
13:53
Speaker 2: let yourself go. You fall madly, deeply in love with
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Speaker 2: this person, and he keeps going until it's like a
14:00
Speaker 2: big fat fish on a hook and you it's.
14:05
Speaker 1: Kind of it's kind of like grooming righting. It's like
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Speaker 1: to me, I'm thinking, as you were saying all this,
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Speaker 1: if we were going to put it in a military context,
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Speaker 1: it's like doing intel on the target. It's like it's
14:21
Speaker 1: like getting intel on the enemy, so you know their weaknesses,
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Speaker 1: you know how you can exploit them, you know, how
14:28
Speaker 1: you can take control and win. I mean, it's it's
14:32
Speaker 1: very do you think do you think that they are
14:39
Speaker 1: like this is just how and I'm sure it's different.
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Speaker 1: And by the way, everyone, this is not two experts
14:45
Speaker 1: talking about this. This is just a conversation me having
14:49
Speaker 1: a conversation with somebody who had a pretty bad relationship
14:53
Speaker 1: with psychopath. But do you your experience and insight, and
14:57
Speaker 1: you've chatted with lots of women who have been in
14:59
Speaker 1: similar relationships, do you think they set out to be
15:03
Speaker 1: that strategic from day one or that's just how they are.
15:08
Speaker 1: They are just their default setting is manipulation, controls, self serving,
15:14
Speaker 1: you know, like psychopathic, narcissistic.
15:18
Speaker 2: But that's a really good question. This is what I think.
15:21
Speaker 2: And like you said, we're no two experts. But the
15:24
Speaker 2: way a narcissist is formed is usually something pretty drastic
15:28
Speaker 2: happened to them between the ones I know, the ones
15:31
Speaker 2: I've met, and the ones I've been involved with. Something
15:34
Speaker 2: you know, usually my mom died at two, or you know,
15:37
Speaker 2: even my mom died at nine, or something really dramatic
15:41
Speaker 2: happened to these people in early childhood, which makes it
15:47
Speaker 2: so painful that their personality splits. And that's what a
15:51
Speaker 2: narcissist is. It's a person their personality split. And then
15:56
Speaker 2: the one that's the one that they roll on with
15:59
Speaker 2: is the one that doesn't feel anything, has no empathy,
16:01
Speaker 2: feels no pain. But like we all know that the
16:06
Speaker 2: will of survival is one of all of our strongest
16:11
Speaker 2: desires that we have to protect, the will to survive.
16:14
Speaker 2: So then you, for a narcissist, his survival is is
16:21
Speaker 2: garnering that narcissistic energy. You know, he has to maintain
16:26
Speaker 2: that energy. He hates himself, he's he's he's in pain,
16:32
Speaker 2: and the only thing that makes him feel better is
16:35
Speaker 2: when he's being adored, until the point once he's not
16:39
Speaker 2: being adored. It's even if he's hated, as long as
16:43
Speaker 2: he's getting something's energy, some sort of energy off the target.
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Speaker 2: And I guess what I don't know and understand is
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Speaker 2: the playbook is identical. I know ten different narcissists and
16:58
Speaker 2: the playbook was the same, And I don't know why.
17:01
Speaker 2: And you know what it is is that yes, first
17:04
Speaker 2: of all, they love Bob, and then they put you
17:07
Speaker 2: up on a pedestal and then they resent you being
17:11
Speaker 2: on the pedestal because they start looking at things while
17:14
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be up on that pedestal, and they then
17:17
Speaker 2: start pulling you apart. And what happens that I knew
17:21
Speaker 2: with the narcissist is that there was a normal person
17:25
Speaker 2: understands win, win, and I think the win. We go
17:27
Speaker 2: into a scenario. We always want to come out win, win,
17:30
Speaker 2: whereas a narcissist will never see that. He will see
17:33
Speaker 2: if you're winning, he's losing. So if everyone's paying you
17:37
Speaker 2: attention because it's your birthday, then he will be very
17:41
Speaker 2: angry at you because it means that he's losing. Your winning,
17:45
Speaker 2: he's losing. If it's Christmas time and everyone's having a
17:49
Speaker 2: great day, you're winning. He's losing. He will ruin Christmas Day,
17:56
Speaker 2: which they never know.
17:57
Speaker 1: Do you know, off the top of your head? What
18:00
Speaker 1: of psychopaths? This is terrible, but fuck it, this is
18:05
Speaker 1: how we roll. What percentage of psychopaths are women. I'm
18:09
Speaker 1: just checking this out. I'm seeing what chat GP.
18:12
Speaker 2: It's interesting that they're there, but not as much.
18:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're bogged. Yeah, because I've googled. Yeah, I think
18:23
Speaker 1: that I think we need to be of course, I
18:26
Speaker 1: think the majority of psychopaths are men, and but I
18:30
Speaker 1: think we also need to point out that the women
18:36
Speaker 1: won't open any doors. But I've had some interesting experience
18:39
Speaker 1: over the years, and I can tell you it ain't
18:42
Speaker 1: all dudes, oh dudes. And yes, I agree, most men
18:49
Speaker 1: are not most men. Most psychopaths the greater percentage. I
18:53
Speaker 1: think it's something like seventy thirty. I think it's something
18:58
Speaker 1: like that.
18:58
Speaker 2: But the women may be there. We don't know that.
19:04
Speaker 1: So when you say covert cycle, is that an actual
19:06
Speaker 1: term or did you make that up?
19:08
Speaker 2: There's an actual term. If you research it, they will
19:11
Speaker 2: turn around and they'll give you. You know, if you
19:13
Speaker 2: put in covert narcissist, they'll tell you that's a different
19:16
Speaker 2: kettle of fish. It's a different it's a different narcissist.
19:20
Speaker 2: And they act differently. And the reason they act differently
19:24
Speaker 2: is they they're they're in this, they're in the community.
19:26
Speaker 2: They're quite The ones I've known are in small towns.
19:29
Speaker 2: They're doing something for the you know, the Return Services
19:32
Speaker 2: League or some you know, some organization where everyone in
19:36
Speaker 2: town says they're such a great guy and they do
19:40
Speaker 2: so much for everybody. And and oh, I've known him
19:42
Speaker 2: all my life, and it's like, yeah, but he's been
19:45
Speaker 2: married three times and he's got and he's estranged from
19:48
Speaker 2: all different relationships. How do you explain that none of
19:52
Speaker 2: his kids speak to him? How do you how do
19:53
Speaker 2: you know? How do you explain that? So with them,
19:57
Speaker 2: going back to the playbook, it's the love bombing. Then
20:03
Speaker 2: once you're hooked, then they start these and it's honestly,
20:08
Speaker 2: when you hear gaslighting. A lot of people have heard
20:10
Speaker 2: the term, but I don't think they really understand. I
20:13
Speaker 2: got gas lit, not by a person I was in
20:17
Speaker 2: a relationship, but this is how I got tossed out
20:19
Speaker 2: of that person's life without actually having any sort of
20:23
Speaker 2: argument with the person that I was close to or
20:27
Speaker 2: the person that her new boyfriend. It was actually something
20:31
Speaker 2: to do. I had a little bit of a few
20:32
Speaker 2: words with his mate over a wine debate, and all
20:38
Speaker 2: of a sudden, out of nowhere, the boyfriend kept going upstairs.
20:44
Speaker 2: You know, seven point thirty never said another word to
20:47
Speaker 2: me after that sort of chiff I had with his mate,
20:51
Speaker 2: And I haven't heard from this person since February that
20:54
Speaker 2: would call me three times a week. So what would
20:58
Speaker 2: have happened there is that I'd said a few things.
21:01
Speaker 2: I accidentally didn't realize who, you know, the whole situation,
21:05
Speaker 2: and I sort of might have outed him a little bit,
21:08
Speaker 2: so I had to had to be gotten rid of.
21:11
Speaker 2: But it's just that, you know, they they've got to survive.
21:16
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden he knew that, all of
21:17
Speaker 2: a sudden it was dangerous to have me involved, so
21:20
Speaker 2: he found a way. And he would have turned around
21:23
Speaker 2: to this person who was madly in love with him
21:25
Speaker 2: and said, well, look, you know, I'm not ever going
21:28
Speaker 2: to speak to this person again. I think that they're
21:30
Speaker 2: a heap of shit or something like that. But it's
21:32
Speaker 2: fine me that you know, you can be friends with them,
21:34
Speaker 2: but it's either them or me. And you know, when
21:37
Speaker 2: somebody is that crazily in love with you, of course,
21:40
Speaker 2: and when the people that I've talked to, I mean,
21:42
Speaker 2: this has happened, if their sisters, their brothers, their fathers
21:45
Speaker 2: and mothers. You know, once you're in a relationship with
21:49
Speaker 2: a narcissist, he can't afford to have anybody that's going
21:51
Speaker 2: to support her and take her side against him. But
21:55
Speaker 2: what he will choose, he'll find somebody in a trying
21:59
Speaker 2: what they call it triangulation. He'll he'll find somebody that's
22:05
Speaker 2: not an enemy or whatever, it's somebody that they both know.
22:09
Speaker 2: But then he'll go, look, I think you're going crazy,
22:12
Speaker 2: and I talked to Joe Blow and he agrees with me.
22:15
Speaker 2: You know, they use a third person to substantiate their
22:19
Speaker 2: bullshit and it's probably not even true. I mean, he
22:23
Speaker 2: probably Joe Blo probably said a word, but he'll utilize that.
22:26
Speaker 2: Or or they'll turn around and get somebody close to you,
22:30
Speaker 2: you know, your mum, your dad. They'll charm them and
22:33
Speaker 2: they'll go, look, I have to talk to your dad,
22:35
Speaker 2: and you know he's thinking the same as me, you're
22:37
Speaker 2: not really quite right in the head. And the reason
22:39
Speaker 2: why that happens is because all this craziness and an
22:44
Speaker 2: argument with a narcissist is traumatic, because he'll say, for instance,
22:51
Speaker 2: he got late home, being laid home for a week
22:54
Speaker 2: smells a perfume, And then you start an argument with
22:58
Speaker 2: him and he'll turn around go, I know you're playing
23:01
Speaker 2: up on me, you know, I know, why are you
23:03
Speaker 2: trying to sabotage this relationship? And it'll turn into a
23:07
Speaker 2: big argument where you're the only person that's doing anything
23:09
Speaker 2: wrong and I mean, if you just that ramps up,
23:14
Speaker 2: and it ramps up over years. And like I said
23:16
Speaker 2: in my letter, I read and I agree that sometimes
23:20
Speaker 2: it takes seven times to leave that relationship because they
23:23
Speaker 2: tear you apart to the point where you cannot make
23:27
Speaker 2: a decision that you trust and you just don't know
23:30
Speaker 2: which ways up. If you don't know anything about narcissist,
23:33
Speaker 2: if this is a normal person in a normal relationship,
23:36
Speaker 2: you honestly think that you are going crazy. And one
23:41
Speaker 2: of my sister in law rang me one day and
23:42
Speaker 2: she said, look, I think I need to go and
23:44
Speaker 2: get tested because I'm going crazy. You know, at work,
23:48
Speaker 2: I put the stapler down and I turn around and go, well,
23:51
Speaker 2: where's the statement that it's absolutely gone? And things like that.
23:54
Speaker 2: But it turns out the partner that was exiting the
23:57
Speaker 2: relationship was doing all this so that she would think
24:01
Speaker 2: that she was crazy, so when they got to the
24:03
Speaker 2: divorce courts, he could wrong foot her. And turns out,
24:09
Speaker 2: you know, her daughter and her son in law were
24:12
Speaker 2: top flight lawyers in Sydney. Wrong person to try and
24:15
Speaker 2: scrow over and it didn't work, but that's what they do.
24:19
Speaker 2: They will and with me, I didn't even know what
24:24
Speaker 2: was happening to me. But I was in this high
24:27
Speaker 2: stay of trauma. And you've talked about it too, you know, cortisol,
24:32
Speaker 2: adrenaline just going through your system. And you know the
24:38
Speaker 2: last time I had a big you know, it was
24:40
Speaker 2: an argument over he was mean to my child. He
24:43
Speaker 2: got my sick child out of bed and was abusive
24:45
Speaker 2: to him, and we ended up in such a fight
24:47
Speaker 2: that he took a swing at me and hit me
24:50
Speaker 2: in the chest, pushed me in the chest, and we
24:54
Speaker 2: were going to Bali the next day. See, they tend
24:56
Speaker 2: to do these things around times when they can get
24:59
Speaker 2: away with them. But as it turned out, that push
25:01
Speaker 2: in the chest could have been a savior because I
25:05
Speaker 2: ended up having a lump of fluid that turned out
25:06
Speaker 2: to me my breast cancer. But had that not happened,
25:11
Speaker 2: who knows? Did he cause it? Did he? Did he
25:14
Speaker 2: locate it? I don't know?
25:15
Speaker 1: Okay. So what I want to know is how how
25:20
Speaker 1: long were you in this relationship with with I was
25:26
Speaker 1: going to say your psychopath. I'm just going to go
25:28
Speaker 1: with that, with your psychopath.
25:31
Speaker 2: Four and a half years, okay.
25:33
Speaker 1: And when did you going in did you have any
25:37
Speaker 1: understanding of sociopthy psychopathy. Did you did you have any
25:43
Speaker 1: idea and when did you first think and when did
25:46
Speaker 1: you first start to get some insight and understanding.
25:51
Speaker 2: Not until after I left the relationship.
25:53
Speaker 1: Oh really, wow? And so what was happening? So tell
26:00
Speaker 1: us as much as you can that you know that
26:02
Speaker 1: you're comfortable to share with us about those four and
26:05
Speaker 1: a half years.
26:08
Speaker 2: Well, I think I was that person that I said,
26:11
Speaker 2: you know, like I was a single mum. I had,
26:14
Speaker 2: you know, not much of an opportunity to I've been
26:17
Speaker 2: single for eight years, my kids were getting older. I
26:22
Speaker 2: really loved the idea of being in a relationship. I
26:24
Speaker 2: was really lonely, and I you know, like I clapped
26:33
Speaker 2: eyes on this guy and he was very good looking,
26:35
Speaker 2: and and I think I pushed that relationship. I mean
26:40
Speaker 2: if I had, if I had been a different person,
26:42
Speaker 2: with a bit more you know, self awareness, I don't
26:45
Speaker 2: think I would have gone there. But I you know,
26:49
Speaker 2: I was desperate, I was needy, and he was you know,
26:54
Speaker 2: he just played that, you know a little bit. And
27:00
Speaker 2: and then I made decisions that I should never you know,
27:04
Speaker 2: about my kids, and you know, like he just manipulated
27:08
Speaker 2: situations and you just become a I think it's the
27:12
Speaker 2: same thing as a drug addiction. I really do think that.
27:15
Speaker 2: I think if you looked at the physiology.
27:18
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, we know that people people get addicted
27:23
Speaker 1: to people like yeah, because you know, you think about this.
27:27
Speaker 1: If you're around somebody and all of a sudden, you're
27:29
Speaker 1: around that person and because you're near them, you're producing
27:32
Speaker 1: dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin and all that shit, Well,
27:36
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's biochemical reaction, right, that's that's your
27:41
Speaker 1: brain lighting up like a Christmas tree. And when you're
27:43
Speaker 1: not with that person it doesn't happen. Then when you're
27:46
Speaker 1: with them it happens. Yeah, one hundred percent. You're right.
27:49
Speaker 1: It's it can be a physical addiction.
27:54
Speaker 2: It was and and like I left him and and
28:00
Speaker 2: you know, my kids were just begging me to leave,
28:02
Speaker 2: and I did leave him, and I couldn't function. I
28:07
Speaker 2: was really ill. It was like I had withdrawals. I
28:11
Speaker 2: couldn't stop thinking about anything to you know, I had anxiety,
28:16
Speaker 2: I had all the things that you would expect of
28:20
Speaker 2: withdrawing from a drug.
28:22
Speaker 1: Wow, that is amazing. And so did you go back?
28:26
Speaker 2: I did? I did go back, and my kids. I
28:32
Speaker 2: lost my kids over it. One kid went in one direction,
28:35
Speaker 2: one and the other and I just yeah, I just thought.
28:45
Speaker 2: And when I went back, it was like probably a
28:47
Speaker 2: junkie jumping into a whole pile of heroin. I was
28:53
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, I've got it back, you know.
28:57
Speaker 2: And I mean this guy had me down on the
29:00
Speaker 2: ground with his hands around my throat at one stage,
29:04
Speaker 2: and there was just no way up. I didn't know
29:11
Speaker 2: which way I was up. I was desperately addicted in
29:14
Speaker 2: a drug, a drugged fuelled scenario. Just to add on
29:20
Speaker 2: to that, I drive past that guy's house. He lives
29:24
Speaker 2: about three doors down from my daughter. I see him
29:27
Speaker 2: three or four times a week. He sometimes stops and
29:29
Speaker 2: chats to me. There is no addiction going on. There
29:34
Speaker 2: not a feeling, not an ounce of feeling or desire to.
29:40
Speaker 2: There's not even any intense feeling of dislike it's just
29:45
Speaker 2: a black line.
29:47
Speaker 1: It's such an interesting analogy because it is like, you know,
29:50
Speaker 1: some people who use or who are addicted to, whether
29:55
Speaker 1: it's gambling, or whether it's drugs, or whether it's booze
29:58
Speaker 1: or whether it's you know, there's a bunch things, but
30:01
Speaker 1: eventually they get to the point where their life is
30:04
Speaker 1: good without that, which is, you know, thankfully. How long
30:10
Speaker 1: do you think it, like, did you leave him, go
30:13
Speaker 1: back to him, and then leave him and go back
30:15
Speaker 1: again or was it just the once.
30:18
Speaker 2: I left and went back and then and then after
30:23
Speaker 2: you know, when I when he took a big swing
30:26
Speaker 2: at me, if I hadn't have moved my face back,
30:29
Speaker 2: I moved sort of stepped back, and it was in
30:31
Speaker 2: front of my two kids, and his knuckles grazed my
30:34
Speaker 2: face and I think he would have probably killed me
30:37
Speaker 2: had I not avoided that, because he's a big, bricky
30:40
Speaker 2: and bricklayer, that's four and he you know, if he
30:46
Speaker 2: had connected, I would have been seriously injured.
30:50
Speaker 1: So you never went to the police. She never did anything.
30:53
Speaker 2: Yes, saying yeah. I then went to the violence court
30:58
Speaker 2: and I was about to take out violence restraining order
31:05
Speaker 2: and also having charged with assault. They appointed me a
31:12
Speaker 2: counselor in the violence court and then local Women's Health.
31:17
Speaker 2: He talked me out of putting charges on him, but
31:25
Speaker 2: I commenced with my counselor, who I have today fifteen
31:29
Speaker 2: years We started and it was such We started at
31:34
Speaker 2: a point where I was completely physically, morally, everything bankrupt.
31:41
Speaker 2: And then I went to see her the other day
31:43
Speaker 2: and she cried because oh wow, it's just the contrast
31:49
Speaker 2: of building a human being to the ultimate, you know,
31:54
Speaker 2: your best version of yourself. And so with all the
31:57
Speaker 2: work you talk about that you talk about, you've got
31:59
Speaker 2: to do the work.
32:02
Speaker 1: I did the work, do you I don't. Firstly, everything
32:06
Speaker 1: that happened to you was terrible. Shouldn't have happened. Nobody
32:09
Speaker 1: should do that to you. No, do you do you
32:14
Speaker 1: ever think I'm a No, I'm trying to question. I'm
32:20
Speaker 1: trying to ask frame this carefully because I don't want
32:22
Speaker 1: people to misinterpret what I'm saying. But do you ever
32:25
Speaker 1: think what part did I play?
32:28
Speaker 2: Why?
32:29
Speaker 1: And No, you didn't deserve it, and of course you
32:31
Speaker 1: shouldn't have done it, and it's not your fault. That's
32:33
Speaker 1: not what I'm saying, But I would I would think, fuck,
32:37
Speaker 1: how did I not see this? How did I you know?
32:41
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about that? And what advice would
32:44
Speaker 1: you give yourself if you could go back?
32:49
Speaker 2: I think about that all the time. I've actually put
32:51
Speaker 2: it in my book Craig that it was one of
32:54
Speaker 2: the most important things that ever happened to me. Because
32:58
Speaker 2: it did. It highlighted that I do not have a
33:03
Speaker 2: caring and loving relationship with myself. That I put another
33:10
Speaker 2: human being in front of me and my children, and
33:14
Speaker 2: there's something very wrong. There was something I knew that
33:17
Speaker 2: there was stuff wrong. I mean, I had a dodger childhood.
33:21
Speaker 2: There was all sorts of things involved in that, and
33:23
Speaker 2: there were reasons why I was a bit needy. But
33:27
Speaker 2: what was great is not great. But what was the
33:31
Speaker 2: most important thing to come out of that is it
33:35
Speaker 2: was a realization and self awareness of all the things
33:38
Speaker 2: I played to put myself in that position. Every decision
33:42
Speaker 2: I made with that position I had to own and
33:45
Speaker 2: I had to you know, I had to be aware
33:48
Speaker 2: of it. I had to teach my children that I
33:52
Speaker 2: did this and apologize to them. And you know, go
33:58
Speaker 2: on to the premise that when you know better, you
34:00
Speaker 2: do better. So I've spent fifteen years learning how to
34:05
Speaker 2: be better and do better, and I am better.
34:09
Speaker 1: Wow. A couple of quick questions. So you and your
34:14
Speaker 1: kids are good now, I hope.
34:15
Speaker 2: Oh that's what I went to see Jill about. And
34:18
Speaker 2: I just said, Sarah called me mama the other day.
34:23
Speaker 2: You know, I was doing. She's got a new little
34:24
Speaker 2: baby and she only lives close to me, and she said,
34:28
Speaker 2: oh thanks mama, and just that little thing. You know,
34:31
Speaker 2: it's just taken a lot of years for that to happen.
34:33
Speaker 2: And and Mitch, you know, you know the dude with
34:36
Speaker 2: the West Coast Eagles top. He used to always tell them.
34:38
Speaker 1: I've met MITCHI came to a camp. Yep.
34:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Mitchell's in an amazing place. He's in a
34:44
Speaker 2: growth period and he's gone through a bit, but he's
34:47
Speaker 2: like comes in and has those deep, meaningful conversations. And
34:52
Speaker 2: both my ca and I've like both my kids really
34:56
Speaker 2: disrespected me a little bit, think that I was just hopeless.
34:59
Speaker 2: But I've just taken all my super and built like
35:02
Speaker 2: what I call Hotel TLC on my property here. It's
35:06
Speaker 2: seven hundred and twenty eight square met is. So I've
35:08
Speaker 2: built in a granny flat. I've got a studio apartment,
35:10
Speaker 2: and I got an Airbnb and it's called Hotel TLC.
35:14
Speaker 2: And my ratings on booking dot com are like I've
35:17
Speaker 2: got an award, a travel award, because they're nine point
35:20
Speaker 2: one out of ten, and my Airbnb is getting four
35:24
Speaker 2: point nine out of five and I got a one
35:26
Speaker 2: hundred dollars in SuperHost award and I'm loving. I mean,
35:30
Speaker 2: this is what I'm meant to do. And you know,
35:31
Speaker 2: the people that come through here, a lot of them
35:34
Speaker 2: are drawn to me, just like this little spot opened
35:38
Speaker 2: up today. Yeah, the people who come to stay with
35:41
Speaker 2: me quite often leave with something important and something grounding.
35:49
Speaker 1: Well, you have beautiful energy and you have really beautiful intentions,
35:53
Speaker 1: so that matters, and that makes a difference. So I
35:56
Speaker 1: want to know, she said earlier, old fuck this up,
36:00
Speaker 1: so correct me if I get it wrong. But something like,
36:03
Speaker 1: it's good that I'm in a place now where I
36:05
Speaker 1: love me and I'm happy to be just me. I'm
36:08
Speaker 1: happy to be not alone, but happy to be single
36:11
Speaker 1: because you're not alone because you've got friends and family
36:13
Speaker 1: and kids and grandkid. Now, congrats. Is the door open
36:21
Speaker 1: for a I know you're not looking, but is the
36:23
Speaker 1: door open for a relationship or is like not fuck
36:27
Speaker 1: that I don't trust them or I don't trust myself.
36:30
Speaker 2: No, I really do trust myself. I have no qualms
36:34
Speaker 2: about that. But my growth and on purpose, like I
36:39
Speaker 2: listen to you, I do a lot of other things,
36:42
Speaker 2: and I pick a topic each year and grow into that.
36:46
Speaker 2: This year it's you know, last year it was la boundaries,
36:51
Speaker 2: you know, and even me just learning to turn around
36:55
Speaker 2: and saying no, I'm sorry, that's not happening, or no
36:58
Speaker 2: I can't or no you won't, and especially running an airbnb,
37:03
Speaker 2: you know, like I have to be tough on people.
37:06
Speaker 2: And so each year I'm I'm giving myself a challenge.
37:11
Speaker 2: And because I'm growing, I kind of feel that even
37:15
Speaker 2: if I met somebody at the beginning of the year,
37:17
Speaker 2: by the end of the year, id outgrowth and look,
37:22
Speaker 2: if the right person came along and we could have
37:27
Speaker 2: interesting conversations. I did quiz, so I've got a great
37:31
Speaker 2: quiz tribe, so you know, I'm really interested in facts
37:35
Speaker 2: and figures and crazy stuff. And if I had a
37:37
Speaker 2: person that came along that was a kindred spirit, then
37:42
Speaker 2: of course, and I don't feel mistrusting. I feel so
37:46
Speaker 2: much confidence in myself and also with my boundaries that
37:50
Speaker 2: if I turned around and met somebody today and their
37:54
Speaker 2: behavior wasn't appropriate, I would just turn around and say,
38:01
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, that's not good enough, goodbye. Whereas way back
38:04
Speaker 2: when then when I attracted a narcissist, it was like Oh, okay,
38:08
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. You know, like people pleaser, and that's
38:14
Speaker 2: what all says in a book. You know, the amount
38:16
Speaker 2: of people who cancer are people pleases are amazing.
38:20
Speaker 1: And I think that you made a really good point
38:23
Speaker 1: before and you said something like, you feel like the
38:27
Speaker 1: trauma from the trauma that you'd been through caused you cancer.
38:32
Speaker 1: And you know, the thing is that like stress and
38:37
Speaker 1: anxiety and overthinking and depression, while we kind of put
38:42
Speaker 1: those in the psychological and emotional baskets, there's a very
38:46
Speaker 1: real physiological consequence to all of those things. And we
38:51
Speaker 1: know now like that things like isolation and loneliness, which
38:57
Speaker 1: is a form of trauma. It's not the traditional trauma
39:00
Speaker 1: we think about, but isolation, loneliness, disconnection like these have
39:06
Speaker 1: an impact on our immune system. These have an impact
39:08
Speaker 1: on our physical health. These have an impact on our
39:13
Speaker 1: lifespan and health span. And in the old days, I
39:17
Speaker 1: would only talk about you know, exercise and sleep and food,
39:22
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe every now and then about anxiety.
39:26
Speaker 1: But these days I'm talking a lot about the power
39:30
Speaker 1: of love, kindness, social connection, intimacy, you know, be that
39:39
Speaker 1: romantic or not, or just being very close feeling like
39:42
Speaker 1: you belong, feeling valued, feeling seen, feeling loved, being loved,
39:47
Speaker 1: feeling safe, like all of these things that you wouldn't
39:50
Speaker 1: compare to vegetables and bloody jogging, but in many ways
39:54
Speaker 1: they're more important for our physical health then whether or
39:58
Speaker 1: not we've been to the gym in the life. And
40:00
Speaker 1: this is coming from a bloke who goes to the
40:02
Speaker 1: gym every day.
40:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. And I remember this is something that you
40:08
Speaker 2: always say. I mean, when we started off this work
40:10
Speaker 2: with Jill, she said, well, you need to develop self
40:13
Speaker 2: love and self worth. And I remember saying, can you
40:15
Speaker 2: tell me which shop I can buy that apply? Because
40:18
Speaker 2: I don't know where to get that. But what you've
40:20
Speaker 2: talked about along, and this is definitely where how I
40:24
Speaker 2: got it, is that when you live in alignment with
40:27
Speaker 2: your beliefs, when that's how your self esteem grows. Every
40:32
Speaker 2: time you make a decision that is for yourself or
40:37
Speaker 2: the right decision, you know, it's quite easy. You know,
40:39
Speaker 2: you talk about a lot, do the right thing, do
40:42
Speaker 2: the wrong thing. You know, if you talk about doing
40:45
Speaker 2: the right thing and then you do the right thing,
40:49
Speaker 2: and it's taken a long time, It's taken a good
40:52
Speaker 2: ten years. But because I now live in alignment with
40:56
Speaker 2: my beliefs, which are family orientated, which are being myself.
41:03
Speaker 2: You know, I don't apologize for you know, not you know,
41:06
Speaker 2: being somebody not seeing myself. So it's like really quite funny.
41:11
Speaker 2: Like back in those days, in the middle of that relationship,
41:15
Speaker 2: I was absolutely wired. It would be a good way
41:19
Speaker 2: to put it, totally wired, like high alert and like
41:24
Speaker 2: they talk about walking on eggshells, and that's exactly what
41:29
Speaker 2: anybody a toxic narcissistic relationship is. And I was wired
41:35
Speaker 2: twenty four seven. Now I am so calm and chill
41:40
Speaker 2: that even if I have a bad thought, I have
41:42
Speaker 2: to sit down and have a good talk to myself
41:44
Speaker 2: and my mantra. Like when we did all the renovations,
41:48
Speaker 2: which most people find very stressful, had I man, I'd
41:52
Speaker 2: project managed it, and the mantra on the job was
41:55
Speaker 2: nobody died unless somebody dies, I'm not going to worry
42:00
Speaker 2: because we're a week late. No one's going to die
42:03
Speaker 2: if I don't get this done.
42:06
Speaker 1: Do you think that for it's harder for women in
42:14
Speaker 1: that women and I'm generalizing here more empathetic, I think, naturally,
42:20
Speaker 1: more like most people that listen to my show Women.
42:23
Speaker 1: Most people that come to my events of women, And
42:26
Speaker 1: you know this is not an idea or this is
42:29
Speaker 1: not a stab in the dark. I mean, I've got
42:32
Speaker 1: lots of data and lots of evidence to say that. Well,
42:35
Speaker 1: in my experience, my anecdotal experience, is that a lot
42:39
Speaker 1: of women think way more about their feelings and expressing
42:43
Speaker 1: their feelings and their mental and emotional health, and they're
42:46
Speaker 1: more up talking about it and whether or not they
42:49
Speaker 1: are inherently kinder or they just act that as in,
42:53
Speaker 1: they just express it more than men do. I feel
42:57
Speaker 1: like women can be because of all of those things,
43:01
Speaker 1: they can be more likely to be a people pleaser. Yeah,
43:06
Speaker 1: and so what's And I know this is just you
43:08
Speaker 1: and me having a chat and you're not a clinician,
43:10
Speaker 1: and neither am I really, but what's your advice for
43:15
Speaker 1: people who are fucking lifelong people pleases, chronic people pleasers,
43:21
Speaker 1: which you probably were? And I reckon Even in my life,
43:24
Speaker 1: I've been not a chronic people pleaser. But I always
43:27
Speaker 1: wanted everyone to like me, and so I compromised a bit,
43:31
Speaker 1: you know, and I did dumb shit because I wanted to.
43:34
Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone to not like me because I
43:37
Speaker 1: was insecure. What's your advice?
43:40
Speaker 2: Well, when you are in that state, you are shat
43:44
Speaker 2: and you are empty. And where I was a people
43:48
Speaker 2: pleaser and one of my girlfriends did the best thing
43:51
Speaker 2: ever one day she said to me, when I spend
43:55
Speaker 2: an hour with you, I've got to go and have
43:56
Speaker 2: a cup of teina, lie down. You know I was
43:58
Speaker 2: dragging her energy out of her because I was so empty. Yes,
44:04
Speaker 2: and it's because you're empty that you're people pleasing to
44:09
Speaker 2: try and feel yourself up. But when you do the
44:12
Speaker 2: work and you become full, you feel and this is
44:16
Speaker 2: like I know you are as well. You must feel
44:18
Speaker 2: this as well. But when you are fulfilled, not what
44:21
Speaker 2: we call happy, but when you are fulfilled and joyous,
44:25
Speaker 2: you don't need to drag that out of anybody. You
44:27
Speaker 2: can quite happily give it to somebody, and you don't
44:30
Speaker 2: need to please anybody. You can just you know, when
44:33
Speaker 2: you've got it filled up, then it's the time to
44:36
Speaker 2: be a giver. And then that then adds to your
44:39
Speaker 2: self esteem because you know, you know, not everyone's going
44:42
Speaker 2: to like you, and you may give to a whole
44:45
Speaker 2: pot of people.
44:46
Speaker 1: That don't even like you.
44:47
Speaker 2: But that's okay, because they might they might give it
44:50
Speaker 2: to somebody else, and that's you know, it's like playing
44:52
Speaker 2: it forward, and that's what that's what fills you up,
44:56
Speaker 2: and that's what makes you feel whole. And you'll never
45:01
Speaker 2: ever ever get anything that you need from another person.
45:07
Speaker 2: I really, I know that sounds weird, but you just won't.
45:11
Speaker 2: And really, I kind of think you've got no business
45:15
Speaker 2: being in a relationship until you have filled yourself up,
45:18
Speaker 2: because I don't think it's a fair relationship. I think
45:22
Speaker 2: that if two people were just needing off each other,
45:26
Speaker 2: I don't think that's healthy. I think that two people
45:29
Speaker 2: who are fully present in themselves and love themselves got
45:34
Speaker 2: the best bet of making a go at things well.
45:36
Speaker 1: I think also, yeah, I think also some people, Oh god,
45:43
Speaker 1: I'm so careful that I know you can tell I
45:46
Speaker 1: get a few emails. Okay, this is what I think.
45:49
Speaker 1: Fucking I think some people, men and women see things
45:54
Speaker 1: like marriage as a solution to a problem. Right now,
45:58
Speaker 1: I'm not saying marriage is bad or being in a relation.
46:01
Speaker 1: You know, my last fucked, I'm fucked. All I need
46:04
Speaker 1: is to be in a relationship. No, for God's sake,
46:07
Speaker 1: that's the last thing you need to figure you the
46:10
Speaker 1: fuck out before you take all that emotional psychological bullshit
46:15
Speaker 1: into someone else's energy. Feel it's like no, no, like
46:21
Speaker 1: that person is not going to fix you, solve you,
46:24
Speaker 1: or save you. And this is the And I think also,
46:29
Speaker 1: I think because some people panic about not having someone
46:35
Speaker 1: and so then they lower their standards and then it's like, wow,
46:40
Speaker 1: well he she whatever, they you know, they tick enough boxes,
46:46
Speaker 1: and it's like if they meet certain criteria or you know,
46:50
Speaker 1: they're kind of in the ballpark, whereas there's no you know,
46:54
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that's the majority, but that definitely happens.
46:58
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh my god, God, absolutely and besotted
47:02
Speaker 1: head over heels, I love this person. No, they're single.
47:05
Speaker 1: I'm single and I'm thirty seven, so fucking let's roll
47:09
Speaker 1: the dice, ticken yeah, well yeah, or even just I
47:14
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. But having said that, the
47:17
Speaker 1: fuck do I know? I'm sixty and single, I'm a
47:20
Speaker 1: fucking idiot. And also, there's a few relationships that I've
47:24
Speaker 1: seen get together and I thought not a chance, and
47:27
Speaker 1: I was wrong. So don't listen to me. Did you
47:31
Speaker 1: say you're writing another book.
47:34
Speaker 2: No I didn't. I didn't say I was, but I
47:36
Speaker 2: really do feel I should. I think that's on the cards.
47:41
Speaker 2: I think my big goal this year was with all
47:44
Speaker 2: my vision board, was a trip to the UK to
47:48
Speaker 2: track down my heritage in tallow and County Carlo and Ireland.
47:53
Speaker 2: So I just loved all that in I'm leaving on
47:55
Speaker 2: the first of August and in doing England, Ireland, Scotland
48:00
Speaker 2: over title of August with half with my girlfriend and
48:04
Speaker 2: half are my aim. Wow, and I just because I'm
48:08
Speaker 2: just cool to do it. I feel that it's going
48:11
Speaker 2: to grow, you know, it's going to be some personal
48:14
Speaker 2: growth involved in that.
48:16
Speaker 1: I had. I have a mildly not amusing, funny but
48:19
Speaker 1: interesting story and that is I got contacted by a
48:25
Speaker 1: lady who lives in I think over your side, I
48:30
Speaker 1: think in Perth. I've got a feeling she was working
48:35
Speaker 1: in the minds anyway. She was Irish, is Irish and
48:41
Speaker 1: it was a while ago now, it's like maybe six
48:43
Speaker 1: years ago, maybe just a little bit before COVID and
48:48
Speaker 1: I didn't know. But I had this whole group of
48:50
Speaker 1: people in Ireland that followed my stuff and were quiet,
48:54
Speaker 1: and they had a Facebook page and they were this
48:57
Speaker 1: whole group and it was big. It was like one
48:59
Speaker 1: hundred of people and they would talk about my my
49:03
Speaker 1: all my shit, right which was lovely, which was lovely.
49:06
Speaker 1: And anyway, that Irish lady from Wa reached out and said,
49:09
Speaker 1: what would it take, like how much would we have
49:12
Speaker 1: to pay to get you to one? Are you're interested
49:15
Speaker 1: and to how much would we have to pay to
49:17
Speaker 1: get you to come to Ireland and talk to our
49:21
Speaker 1: essentially our Craig Arp group, Right, And I'm like, one,
49:25
Speaker 1: that's completely gorgeous. I so much love that. And two
49:29
Speaker 1: my mum's mum her name was Molly Malone, right, and
49:34
Speaker 1: so I have this, Yeah, so I have this. I'm
49:37
Speaker 1: like one eighth Irish And anyway, I said, just pay
49:42
Speaker 1: for my expenses and I'll obviously you know that's still
49:46
Speaker 1: going to cost them, but I said, just pay all
49:49
Speaker 1: my bill, like pay the airfare, pay their com whatever,
49:52
Speaker 1: and I'll do the talk for free. So you know,
49:55
Speaker 1: so I'll fly over, I'll make zero dollars, but I'll
49:58
Speaker 1: get to see where my roots are from. Anyway, I
50:03
Speaker 1: went to this little place called Tullamore shout out to
50:06
Speaker 1: the people in Tullamore. Oh my god. You know, like
50:09
Speaker 1: I've been I've been to a lot of places, like
50:11
Speaker 1: a lot of countries, a lot, and I've spoken in
50:15
Speaker 1: a lot of places. And there was something energetically weird
50:20
Speaker 1: Tracy Lee Connor about I genuinely felt and I didn't
50:26
Speaker 1: expect this, so there was no like psychosomitic. I felt
50:30
Speaker 1: like I'd been there before. And I felt like even
50:34
Speaker 1: though I didn't know the people, I felt like I
50:37
Speaker 1: knew them and they were the warmest people I've ever
50:39
Speaker 1: met anywhere in the world, and so much so right,
50:44
Speaker 1: Like it's a small town, Tullamore. I think it's like
50:47
Speaker 1: ten thousand people. I think it's like an hour and
50:49
Speaker 1: a half out of Dublin, but people like I had
50:53
Speaker 1: at least a dozen different people offer for me to
50:59
Speaker 1: stay with them. Like I was like, and that asked
51:03
Speaker 1: me where I'm staying, and I said, Oh, I'm staying
51:05
Speaker 1: at you know, the whatever hotel And they're like, oh,
51:07
Speaker 1: you want to be doing that, You'll be staying with us. Oh,
51:10
Speaker 1: you'd be coming, you'd be staying with us. You won't
51:12
Speaker 1: be standing there, No, can't be doing that. And I'm like,
51:17
Speaker 1: like they were so nice. I'm like, I'm definitely not
51:19
Speaker 1: coming and staying in your house, but it would freak
51:22
Speaker 1: me out to Oh but fuck, it was a fun
51:25
Speaker 1: trip and the nice. Oh yeah, through that way, you'll
51:30
Speaker 1: love it. You'll you'll dig it all right, going.
51:33
Speaker 2: Right through that way, So you'll have you done your
51:37
Speaker 2: ancestry DNA.
51:39
Speaker 1: No, I should do it.
51:41
Speaker 2: I should do it. I thought I was only a
51:43
Speaker 2: little bit about twenty five percent Irish. Turns out I'm
51:45
Speaker 2: fifty four percent.
51:47
Speaker 1: Wow, that's you and I could be bloody related. Who
51:50
Speaker 1: knows tell people how to find you, follow you by
51:54
Speaker 1: your book all that stuff.
51:56
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know something I've COVID got me.
51:59
Speaker 2: I've done nothing in the book under the bed. I've
52:01
Speaker 2: just turned around and turned into a hermit and I've
52:04
Speaker 2: got to change that. But you know, tl t LC
52:07
Speaker 2: one six zero two at live dot com dot au
52:11
Speaker 2: about the only way to get in touch with me
52:13
Speaker 2: or I'm on Facebook.
52:15
Speaker 1: All right, And if you really want to get in
52:17
Speaker 1: touch with Tracy, email me via the site info at
52:21
Speaker 1: Craigharper dot net and we'll make sure that she gets
52:25
Speaker 1: forward that email to her. Hey, thanks for sending me
52:28
Speaker 1: an email today, and thanks for that. I feel like
52:32
Speaker 1: you and I were all over the place in that chat.
52:34
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's okay.
52:37
Speaker 2: I think that that's just that's who we are.
52:40
Speaker 1: It's like two dogs with three dicks, just all over
52:43
Speaker 1: the shop. Very excited, very excited me.
52:46
Speaker 2: I get there in the end. I've got to lean
52:48
Speaker 2: into my strengths.
52:49
Speaker 1: All right, stay there. We'll say you by affair, but thanks, Trace,
52:52
Speaker 1: appreciate you no ways.
52:54
Speaker 2: Thanks great