Latest / Head Shrink Inc. / How to get kids to contribute around the house

Transcript

How to get kids to contribute around the house · Head Shrink Inc.

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey y'all, this is Doc David, and I am joined today with my therabro, as I like to call him, my buddy uh Daniel Bates.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: He has a podcast called the Counselor Dan Podcast.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um a little bit of history on Dan.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I guess you can give your own history, but I'm gonna give my history of you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of me?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: In front of you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm talking about you to people, but it's and then I'll give my I'll give your history.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: People already know about me.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to know your revisionist history.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Dan is a guy that I've known for a long time, and he has um a couple degrees.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's a fellow counselor, and he's someone that um makes me laugh, and I like to talk to him, and we like to mock life together.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're both dads, we're both husbands.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I was thinking as I was thinking about the intro for you, like I can say, I love this guy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think he's a great guy.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get to see him as much as I'd like, but we've done podcasting together since probably 2013, and then we've taken a hiatus because lives just our lives get busy and we have kids, and so at least from my perspective, I want to try to do this more.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So this is our first attempt.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now you can go introduce yourself.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, love is a strong word.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: You said you said you loved me.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, I love you.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I I'm I'm secure in my uh masculinity.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to explore that more, you know.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe how how much you love me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we can do that on the let's just talk about that another show, another episode, please.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love you too, David.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I love you.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did I miss?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about yourself so my listeners can know who you are.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm doing private practice in Camus, Washington.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, the practice is called Lacamas Counseling.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's going pretty pretty good.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Selling counseling like hot cakes.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I just came out with a new book, The Family Crisis Guidebook.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I like to write books.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: David and I co-authored a pretty amazing book called When Parenting Backfires.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all should check that out.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I too enjoy potting, and I don't see David nearly as much.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: So when he threw me this bone, I'd I bit into it and I'm not gonna let it go.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is it juicy?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Does it taste good?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's it there's a lot of cartilage, uh, some calcium in here, some marrow.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cartilage is good.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So so you uh what's what's your family life like these days?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we have three kids under five with a three-month-old.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, uh excuse me if I yawn during the podcast because I'm very tired.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you're and your wife is a nurse, so there's a lot of uh daddy kid time that you partake in.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some people will get offended on the internet if you or I call it daddy duty.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: They'll just say, oh, that's just parenting.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I mean, I guess I use the term because my wife works full-time and I work full-time.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: So when she's with the kids, I I don't I mean, she's on mommy duty.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not, you know, we're just just you know, designating, delineating that she's got the kids and I'm at work.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get you.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, I guess.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I get.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's all.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Calm down, dude.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Calm down.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, oh, settle down.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: You get a little hype there.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Calm down, okay.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so uh one of the things we wanted to talk about today was I mean, so I people, I mean, I don't give intros about myself, but I have um I have lots of kids too.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have seven kids, and so uh mine are older, my youngest is seven, and my oldest is twenty.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have been in that place where Dan's been.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's definitely uh I don't want to say I don't want to treat it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a dark place.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a dark time for me.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean that I think that should be a whole nother episode of our joke of uh child or parenting and how horrible parenting is and how offended people get when you say that uh child rearing is no fun.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well people say, Oh, you you should have shouldn't have done it, you shouldn't have had kids.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well they say you can't complain because you had kids, you made your choice.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do it again, say it, say it again, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's anyways, let's that's we you and I we just kind of go off on tangents.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I have us written down on what we would need to talk about, or we could just kind of go off on tangents all day.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um we can save that for a future pod.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so one of the things that when uh having lots of kids is like the more kids you have, the potentially the more things in your house um that will break.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just so you know, I'm sure you've had things that have been broken already by your kids.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then um how messy your house can get with with the more kids you have.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that we decided, let's hey, let's talk about how can you make your kids contribute to household tasks, chores, uh right now.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it went away.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Are you there?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm there.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Was that you?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So what are so what are your thoughts when you're thinking about how can your kids contribute to the house?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um as you yawn again.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah, I've heard a lot of parents complain to me in counseling that their kids don't take initiative or they don't really feel a sense of ownership over the day-to-day of the house, of running the house.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a lot of work, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: To run a house, to pick up after yourself and put things away.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so these parents are frustrated because they're working and providing, and then they're also coming home and doing a majority of the domestic labor, if you will.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's I think it's a fair point that they're frustrated that their kids aren't doing enough, their kids are just sleeping in or lounging, or the the workload is disproportionate on the parent side.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and there's something about that that isn't right, there's something about that that doesn't jive, which is it should be more equal.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the kids should be contributing.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: So then a lot of parents will so I'll say, okay, you you want your kid to be a contributor to the house, right?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's a team effort, you're all in this together, and they're uh benefiting from what you do, and so they need to contribute to the to the house.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so then I I was thinking about that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, yeah, because you know, I want that for my kids.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I want I don't want that to be a struggle that oh, you got to do the chore or oh you gotta pick up after yourself.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: I want them to want to do that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've just noticed my my well, I've noticed with my four-year-old, because my kids are four, two, and you know, eight months um or twelve months, whatever he is.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: But with my four-year-old, he was just born.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: He was just born.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: He's just like he's just baby, just a baby.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's not cleaning up around the house, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I've noticed with my four-year-old, she wants to help.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: She wants to help out.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: She wants to make dinner with me, she wants to put the dishes away, she wants to help rake up the leaves and pick up the dog poop and walk behind me as I mow the lawn.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: And part of that's really irritating because she's like, you know, slowing me down.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I mean, what I do is I kind of quash that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: I like say, leave me alone, go away, go find something else to do.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a little nicer than that, but essentially that's the message I'm sending her.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: That desire you have to contribute, I'm gonna kill that and send you away.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So then when do they learn?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay, mom and dad do all the work.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: When I try to help, I just mess things up or I get in the way.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll just go do what I want.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you know, amplify that a thousand times over, which is making years.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll do what I want, which is usually making more of a mess that has to be picked up by the parent, which then causes frustration, et cetera.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: So then it, I mean, I can see the genesis of this problem, um, of of what parents have told me who have teens, I can see it in the making at age four, with my oldest, you know.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I've read a couple articles where uh one was from NPR, and it was a journalist, I think was in the Yucatan, and she was visiting a family, and she just noticed all the kids were helping out without any prompting from the adults whatsoever.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: They're putting their dishes away, they were making meals, they were folding laundry, they were doing all the work without being told whatsoever.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And there was an expectation.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's this uh journalist was saying there's a cultural difference there.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas in the Yucatan, um, there's an expectation from early on that kids will contribute and they need to, you know, be a team.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: They need to um, you know, belly up to the table and put some work in to the house because they're benefiting from the house.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, whereas in the United States, um we just kind of delegate, delegate kids to play and you know, quash their desire to contribute.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So then we have these these problems that you and I have heard from parents uh exasperated, tired, exhausted, frustrated, that their kids are just kind of entitled and dependent on them and not contributing.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, I think it's a pretty important topic.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's a frustration I've heard from a number of parents.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there are ways that you can encourage your kid to be a contributor to the house and feel a sense of responsibility.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but there are there are a number of issues that come up with that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's not just so easy as like, oh, okay, I'll make them a contributor.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because they do.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would I would say I think it um it starts like if you have a teenager, if you're listening to this and you think, well, I have a teenager and I'm just gonna get my teenager to start contributing.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: If if you haven't been doing it, it's gonna be much I think it's gonna be much more difficult to get your teenager to contribute than it is gonna be to get your you know four-year-old to contribute.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it has to start at four year old, it has to start at age four or age five.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can't start this at age 15.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: You just you know, I I think that's it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: You you could start at age 15.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you're gonna have uh it's gonna be definitely a challenge.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be a heck of a time.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: A real heck of a time doing it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but yeah, I mean, like I I think you have to up your tolerance for imperfection.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because my daughter wants to pick up the dog poop, let's say.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so she's like picking up one individual log at a time.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Which with bare hands.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like with a plastic bag, right?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: Which is which is great.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's awesome.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: A kid who wants to pick up dog poop, like that's pretty amazing, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, she's excited for it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but she's just doing it so slow.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like this task that would take me two minutes, she's turning into like an afternoon.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm it's like, I got other stuff to do, and I don't enjoy picking up dog logs that much, you know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if we could like for me, it's like I got video games to play.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, kid.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Hurry this process up, uh or or like filling up the dog bowl with water.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, probably 30% of the water that's originally poured into the bowl makes it to its destination because it's so it's spilled everywhere.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that's frustrating, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I have to not react negatively when she does the chore and then focus on the positive that she wanted to contribute.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: I gave her a task and she did it imperfectly, and then it's just like you know, then it's just the my own personal observation when I'm trying to train my kids to do something, it it's just repetition, repetition a thousand times over, and then on the thousand and one time, you see them doing it somewhat successfully, and then it just builds, but it seems like there's a tipping point.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I would I would say that like number one, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh man, how do I get this started?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think um it there's a shift that has to go into your thinking as a parent.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um like with what you're talking about, the the idea that um I just want to I this task needs to hurry up and get done, versus here's an opportunity to teach my kid to contribute.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I would also add to connect with me.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, because because over and over, like teenagers, there's always that that theme of my teenager just stays up in their room and they never want to connect with me and do anything with me.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're connecting with them, you know, starting at you know, two, three, four, and it's also while you're doing some, you know, a chore or whatever, an activity around the house, that sets you up for success, you know, 10 years down the road when you're when normally a lot of people are frustrated with their teenager.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm glad you made that point because, you know, like her, my my daughter and I picking up just like little pieces of garbage that accumulate on the floor.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, stickers and ripped up pages and all the little junk.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, I don't want that.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: I want to honor her desire to contribute, but I also want to make it fun and connecting, like you said.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll I'll make a game of it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'll pretend she's the soldier and I'm the drill sergeant, and we'll just have a ball, pretending having her march from each thing to each thing, and saluting each other and saying, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, and just making it goofy and fun.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, that it's odd to say, but doing it sure becomes this relationally connecting activity.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I've just introduced this idea that you're you want to contribute, and that's that is a good desire.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um when you when you do contribute, you're rewarded with relationship.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and in fact, the chore is not monotonous, it can actually be fun and pleasurable.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: So those are three really powerful ideas that I'm communicating to a four-year-old.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then if I am consistent enough in sowing the seed, I'm gonna reap the reward uh of that in a what a year and two years, three years, where she's more competent to do the the chores, but has all these positive associations with contributing.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're like a regular uh male Mary Poppins.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, basically, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm like Murray Murray Poppins.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does music start when you I I'm often singing when I do the chores.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that's quite the site, I'm sure.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: I enjoy doing song parodies, so um right.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so so I agree with you, yet I think then you get up into like the tweens and the teen junior high, high school age.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And how's that?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have that age around you, and I do I do have that age around me uh right now.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I mean I work with that age.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the saluting and the you know, breaking into song isn't going to be as um uh easily uh accepted at at those ages.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you recognize that, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that's that's why you've gotta you gotta sow the you know the seeds early and start at four.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then basically, I mean I do think there's kind of a window of opportunity, and if you miss it, you kind of miss it, which is if your kid has the desire to contribute, it doesn't matter if they're gonna take forever, it doesn't matter if they're gonna do it imperfectly, you have to uh honor that desire, reinforce it, reward it, praise it as much as possible.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: So then, you know, when you when you reward and praise, that's reinforcing, which just means that behavior is gonna show up again and again and again, sure.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Which is what you want.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's the behavior you want as a parent, versus the entitled dependent behavior, which is irritating and what you don't want.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I think also yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I would add is that um if you want, if you're trying this with your kid, I mean, uh you're not gonna be perfect.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not perfect in getting my kids to do chores and everything.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I think that you might be might be worth considering is letting your kid be in charge of something at that young of an age.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it could be something like super innocuous.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, moving the garbage from the upstairs bathroom to the downstairs garbage bin or something that gives them purpose that they feel like some autonomy over, um, I think would be a good self-esteem booster, and it'd also allow you guys, you as the parent to interact with your kid in a different way, also.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because that that seems to become a battleground, which is control, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I think if your kid wants to have control over a household duty, let them have it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, unless there's a danger, you know, there it's gonna cause some kind of physical danger.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: But if they're gonna do it in a way that you don't like, um, but they still want to do it, then you've got to question, you know, your reasons for trying to rip it out of their hands and not letting them have control.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because it it just it just becomes a battleground that's unnecessary and it kind of qua again quashes this uh wonderful desire on a kid's part to contribute and to play uh a benefiting role in the household versus you know just take, take, take.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So let me let me ask you this.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what do you think about a lot of a lot of times parents come in and they talk we start talking about chores and stuff, and uh what do you think about paying money for chores?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um I mean I think there's good evidence to support that as a motivator for like and I've seen it mostly with academics.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: So like freakonomics, you've heard of freakonomics, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think they did a study where a school paid students to up their grades and all the students like it worked.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I mean there are some problems with that, like you know, ideally you would find intrinsic motivators uh versus extrinsic motivators.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Extrinsic motivators is you're motivated by a reward um that's external to you, like money or praise versus an intrinsic reward, which is feeling being motivated to achieve something for the sake of achieving it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like you achieve a sense of self satisfaction from having done that activity.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's that's what I'm trying that leads to the greatest level of motivation.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: That leads to behaviors.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sticking around for a really long time versus the extrinsic motivators, they don't that behavior doesn't really last.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to keep giving them the money.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's it it the motivation goes away when the money goes away.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I gen and I and I generally don't encourage it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know I I haven't read any studies from Free Conomics.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the school setting is a maybe a little bit different than family setting, but I usually don't encourage it because if then chores become this commodity.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you as the parent really want this chore to get done and you're trying to teach your kid something, your kid says, uh, what are you gonna pay me?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or uh, I don't feel like getting ten dollars today, or I don't it's not worth their time, then it it creates this frustration in the relationship.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you can start at an early age, say chores are just what you do when you live in this family.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and if there's extra chores like you know, picking up dog poop, or uh so an extra uh some extra chore, and that's bas that's dependent based on family, then I think you can pay for those, but like basic chores of keeping your room clean, yeah, making your I don't I don't make my kids have some people do make them like like there are you know I think basic chores that shouldn't be rewarded monetarily because they're just expectations that you're part of this family, and with being part of this family, you contribute.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um but that isn't to say you can't reward nothing without money because you also want to teach your kid uh that that work has a monetary value and that if they work hard enough, they can make more money, and then they need to be responsible with that money.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's also a good thing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I I I think I agree with you, which is there's a base level of expectation, clean up after yourself, put your food away, make your bed, put your clothes away, that kind of stuff.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: But then there's like extra above and beyond kind of chores that are monetarily rewarded, and then they can earn money from that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember growing up, uh our heat was a wood stove.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's what heated our house.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the mountains of Appalachia or something.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, we I grew up in Tumwater.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know but uh but we heated our house with a wood stove.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so my dad would buy a quart of wood, which is just a massive amount of wood, and then my brother and I would have to stack it, and then you know, we would cut Kinlin and all sorts of stuff.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you know do you know what a cord is?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's I don't know like the number.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's four, I think it's four by four by eight of like quantity, yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Just volume of wood.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a my dad would get like two quarts.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean it was a massive amount of wood, like it was like a week-long project for me and my brother to stack it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and my dad, you know, he took us to Toys R Us, and I remember very much remember this of getting an N64 for stacking two quarts of wood with my brother, and that was our reward.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that was that was a tidy sum of money back in the day.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was like three, four hundred bucks for a gaming system, which is a lot back then, and you know, now gaming systems are like 800 bucks or 900 bucks, but um, I mean that wasn't every time I did a chore, I didn't get a N64.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that was just for stacking the wood, which was a big project.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Your parents were jerks.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: I know, right?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Not giving you one not giving me a gaming system every time I picked up after myself.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully you don't abuse your kids like that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh all right, so let's let's wrap this up.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So the um kind of the points that I think were are important to take away are that as a parent wanting to get your kids to participate more, there's a mind like you have to be very purposeful in your thinking.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I called it a mind shift earlier, but I think I change it, you have to be really purposeful and mindful of what's going on with your younger child when they're trying to contribute.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I think contribution when they're that young, um, contribution and connectedness potentially go hand in hand.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so there's these opportunities to connect with your kid.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I even tell like adults now that have teenagers or parents that have teenagers that when they're when they're teenagers doing a chore, it's it's a time that you have their undivided attention, and so doing it alongside them is a way to connect now as teens as well.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes parents have a hard time with that because they just don't feel comfortable connecting.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: The second is let let your kid be in charge of something.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would be some takeaways you have?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean it's like uh I I'm sure there's a term for this, uh, it's escaping me at the moment, but it it's one of those things where there's a high uh there's a steep level of effort in the beginning, but then once you hit kind of a tipping point, you don't have to expend as much effort to get as much reward.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you've got to really foster this sense of wanting to contribute in your kids, which does take a lot of time and effort because they do the chores imperfectly, they take time, uh, they mess it up.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so you have to be able to tolerate that and not react to it negatively, but be positive and reinforce the things you want.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're consistent in doing that, you'll reach a tipping point where then your child will internalize those things and contribute without any prompting from you, without as much effort from you.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're kind of off to the races because that's a very easy thing to keep going.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: It takes very minimal effort to praise your child when they do the thing you want them to do.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: It takes very little effort to reward your child when they're already doing the thing you want.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's much harder to try to um get them to start doing a behavior with rewards.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you do this, I'll give you this, versus you have already done this, I'm so pleased and happy with that.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Here is this.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: That is so much easier.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's so much positive more positive.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a totally different dynamic in parenting.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so if you can pay the cost, if you will, up front early on, you're gonna reap the the reward, the benefit for years to come.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so, you know, to me, it's I feel kind of a like I'm in my own little window of opportunity right now, and I really want to seize it because of my kids are four and two and it's eight months.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I don't want to let it go.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to be dealing with what I've heard from so many parents with their teenagers, and I'm I'm sure it will happen, you know.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but if I can invest in my well-being as a parent in the future, my future well-being now, um, I'll pay the cost now, gladly.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Carpe diem.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Seize the day, sees the day, quid quid pro quo.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a three-month-old.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why you keep going to like he's eight months.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Did I say months?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I meant weeks.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I meant weeks.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, and I have an eight-month-old, I'm making it wait.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's a totally different baby.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: A two-month-old versus an eight-month-old.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a different I just know your wife who will never listen to this podcast.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um would want to correct you.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And my wife will never listen to this podcast either.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I keep forgetting my I keep forgetting my kids' birthdays, so she's not happy with that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I someone someone gets me on the phone and says, Oh, what's your kid's date of birth?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I have this moment of panic, like, oh man, they're gonna think I'm not their parent, and I'm trying to get like some protected information because I can't remember my kids' birthdays.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was uh picking my my oldest up from Sunday school, and they must have learned some kind of Bible story.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: But when I showed up and it wasn't it was a new church to us, so it's like my first time you know meeting these people.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: My daughter looks up at me and says, You're a thief, you're a thief.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, they're gonna think I'm stealing this child.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm not her dad.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I just have a pleasant face, and I'm a thief because I'm stealing this kid from Sunday school.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Kids say the greatest things.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was a great introduction.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Kids are wonderful, they're just wonderful all around.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, how can people track you down?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'll be on, I'll have you on again, but uh just oh that would be so great.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah, what a privilege for me.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a privilege privilege for you.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean, you know, you could go to my website, counselordan.com, but I mean, I'm most active on Facebook.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you just go to put in Counselor Dan on Facebook, that's where I'm posting the most things, and that that's where I'm my most active.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: So, and that's where I people engage with me the most.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I would say go to Facebook and go to Counselor Dan and like my page and follow my page.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I put questions up there and all my content basically on that, and that's where you can find me.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fairly sedentary on Facebook.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: But you're not you're not active.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more active on Instagram, but I'm not as sedentary.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's I mean, I I'm on Instagram, but I I really don't no one engages.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: I get very little engagement on Instagram, but Facebook, that's where I get a lot of engagement.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's all about, right?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, you're right.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're not wrong.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're great looking.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're great looking.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I know I know.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're a guy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's good.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks, Dan.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you coming on.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we will be um, we will definitely, or I will definitely have you on more episodes in the future.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Say hi to all your kids and your nine month old son that was born three months ago.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Say hello to him.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, hey, if you like what you heard, uh give us a like, follow Headshrink Inc or email headshrinkinc at gmail.com, or you can follow me on Facebook at docdavid.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Talk soon.