Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 5-8) (8/8/26)

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Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 5-8) (8/8/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where we
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: left off with the Bill Barr deposition given before Congress.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Question do you recall what kind of indications were brought
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to you that this was just a mistake to not
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: assign him a roommate? Answer by Bar. I can't remember
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the details of it though, who struck John? But there
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: were a lot of people involved who you know I
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: told him this, No, he didn't tell me this. You know,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: whether this watch officer knew something or whether they didn't
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: know something, And it was sort of it was intricate,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: that's all I can remember. Question. Yeah, answer, But at
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the end of the day it appeared to be screw
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: ups question and I think that's as you said. That
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: was the IG's conclusion too, that it was a lot
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of word of mouth of this guy is getting transferred
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: and confusion regarding if it was just going to trial
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: or permanent transfer. Answer right, question, that kind of stuff. Answer.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: There were things like that, and then there's you know,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: different correctional officers, shifts and things and weather, things that
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: are important are communicated and all that kind of thing.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Question in the course of the investigation, did you ever
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: go to the MCC answer by bar no question. Did
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: you ever speak to any of the inmates that were
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: around mister Epstein at the time? Answer no. Question. Did
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: you speak to any of his roommates? Answer no, but
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I believe they were interviewed and he was told the results. Question.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I have nine minutes left, so I'm going to do
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the unmonitored phone call and then we'll go off the
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: record for this round. You had mentioned earlier and said
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: that the IG in its review that mister Epstein made
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: an unmonitored phone call the evening prior to being brought
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: back to his cell before he was before his death
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: on the tenth. Do you recall being made aware of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: that after the fact? Answer? After his suicide question Uh
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: huh bar yes, question and were briefed regarding what happened
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: with the call, bar along the way. My recollection is
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the bureau spent time trying to figure out who was
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the recipient and trying to track that person down. Question
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: and is it answer? And you know, eventually the only
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: thing I remember it was someone in Belarushia. I think
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: that's my best recollection question, But with a New York
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: city area code. Answer, I don't remember the details. Question Okay,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: where are or two the best of your knowledge, what
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: are the policies for inmates making phone calls to non attorneys? Answer?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I did ask the FBI what the call
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: was about, what did people, what did she say? And
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. So my understanding was that
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the calls like that had to be monitored, and you
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: couldn't make an unmonitored call unless there was a reason,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: like my lawyer is going to I'm talking to my lawyer,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Question and in addition to being monitored by
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: a corrections officer, these calls are usually recorded. Answer yes,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: question is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question was this call recorded?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Answer no, not that I'm aware of. Question. The IG
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: did review, and I believe the Southern District of New
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: York eventually did as well. Where individual won the recipient
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: of the call or her attorney gave a proffer to
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the Southern District of New York. Are you aware of that? Answer?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I remember asking, I think it was
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: boditch what we had discovered about the call? Question. The
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: profet described the call of mister Epstein, saying like there
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: is going to be tough times. I love you, I'm sorry,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that kind of those kinds of language. Do you recall
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: hearing that kind of read out of the call? Answer?
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I don't recall specifics, but I thought the call was
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: consistent with saying goodbye to someone, but not telling them
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: you're about to commit suicide. Question did they ever discover
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the identity of the recipient? Answer? I'm not sure, and
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I couldn't say. By the way, at that point we
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: had already made up his mind as to exactly when
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: he was going to do it. But to me, it
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: was consistent with it. I'm sorry. What was your question? Question?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Did they ever discover the identity of the recipient of
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the phone call? Answer? I believe they did. That's my
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: best recollection. Question. Do you recall who it was? Answer?
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: No question. I'll ask just about one person. Do you
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: recall if it was Glenn Maxwell? Answer it was not.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: It was not her. Question it was not. Answer no, redacted.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: That's a good spot. We can go off the record.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Then they go to recess. Now they're back on the record. Oh, callahan,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: we're on the record. We're on the record. O'Callahan, which
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: is Barr's lawyer, so just before we start with your questions,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Attorney General, Barr just wanted to clarify two points from
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the prior testimony. It makes sense to do it now
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: and obviously won't count against your time, if that's okay, redacted? Yeah, absolutely,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: oh Callahan. Okay, Bar. So, despite your best efforts to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: orient me to this floorplan, oh Callahan, he's referring to
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the schematic Exhibit three. Bar, I was completely turned around
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: on it and for some reason was discussing it as
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: if the camera was to the lower left instead of
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: where it is was, which was to the upper right.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And as I said, the main entrance would be the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: lower right of the camera scene. And so the door
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: that Council showed me at the far end of this
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: of the common area is a principal entrance, the primary
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: entrance to the shoe, oh callahan. So just the witness
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: is indicating the black rectangular box next to the red
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: portion of mister epstein Sell on the schematic. Barr. The
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: other thing is that I don't have specific recollection of
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the exact time I found out about being taken off
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a suicide watch, but to the best of my recollection,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: it was after his suicide. O'Callahan. Those are the two points. Redacted.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Examination begins again by redacted. Question mister Barr,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Good morning. I'm going to proceed chronologically, and then doing so,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I'm going to cover some of the topics that my
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: majority colleagues did in a previous round. Not to make
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you repeat yourself, but just to follow up on some
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: issues and ensure we have a clear record. And I'll
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: start with the Florida investigation, that is the investigation into
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein by the US Attorney's Office for the Southern
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: District of Florida. When did you become aware of that investigation? Answer?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: With everyone else according to the papers while it was
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: going on. Question at the time it was the questions
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: interrupted by Barr. Answer when there was when there was
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: a big outburst about a special deal and all that
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Question so roughly in the two thousand
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and seven time frame. Answer whenever it became public that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: there was a plea agreement. Question and do your recall
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: how you became aware of it? Bar the newspaper question newspapers,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Just a question about the resolution of that investigation, as
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're aware, mister Epstein entered into a non
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: prosecution agreement with the US Attorney's Office in September of
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. Among other things, the agreement bound
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the United States not to quote institute any criminal charges
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: against any potential co conspirators of Epstein unquote. Are you
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: familiar with that agreement, mister O'Callahan, So, hold on, excuse me.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Attorney General Barr was under subpoena, and the scope of
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: the cover letter was about the investigation by the Department
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of Justice into Epstein and Maxwell while he was Attorney General.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: You're asking about information that he was not Attorney general,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and so I think it's beyond the scope of what
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the subpoena called for redacted. I don't think I would
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: agree with that scope, and I think that the proceeding
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: here today are focused on the DJ's investigation concerning mister
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Epstein generally, and the question I'm asking now goes to
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: mister Barr's perspective based on his experience as Attorney General
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: O'Callahan which time redacted, which time well, experience as Attorney
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: general both times. Question, just based on your professional perspective, sir,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: have you seen a provision in a plea agreement that
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: found the United States not to pursue co conspirators that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: were unknown at the time the agreement was entered into. Answer,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I don't recall having any inside information or information that
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't publicly available about those events about the investigation in Florida,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and it's ultimate, the ultimate plea agreement. To the best
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of my recollection, I knew what I saw in the papers.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I remember at the time having a reaction because there
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: was a hubbub about it. I remember looking or thinking
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: about it and delving a little bit into it. But
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: what happened before I was Attorney general the second time?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Question the second time, during either of your tenures as
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: attorney general, have you ever seen a comparable provision that
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: had the same effect? Again? Answer during the time I
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: was Attorney General, I don't recall seeing a comparable provision.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I think the thing that I didn't like about it
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: was that it took the victim's elocution rights, and I
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: thought that was pretty aggressive, and I thought it was vulnerable.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: So that's just my own thinking when I saw it. Question,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Just to ask you, Miss Crockett, can
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I jump in really quickly redacted? Yeah, Miss Crockett. I'm sorry,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I just got to go back to what was just
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: brought up. And during your tenure, during either time you
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: were Attorney General, do you recall there ever being a
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: scenario that you authorized that was similar that disallowed the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: prosecution of co conspirators in this type of plead deal.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Bar You know, I can't specifically remember things that were
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: that I approved, but I'm not sure that provision sticks
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: out to me as odd Crockett. Okay, but you can't
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: recall ever approving anything like that before, right the witness,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Right Crockett, Thank you. Back to redacted question. There was
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: discussion during the previous round of chain of communication with
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: de and between Maine Justice and US Attorney's Office. I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: like to ask you about communication between DOJ and the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: White House, And again this is focused on both of
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: your tenures as Attorney General. How common was it, generally speaking,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: for you to communicate directly with the President about investigations
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that the DOJ was handling. Barr Well, it depends what
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the investigation was about. On Epstein, I only remember two
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: conversations I had with the president. Question, so could you
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: tell us about those two conversations? Answer? One was when
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I heard about the suicide. I called him up and said,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you better brace for this, and I told them the
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: words to the effect, and I told them about it,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and I told them we were going to be investigating
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: it very vigorously. And the second one, I can't say
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: for sure whether it happened before his suicide during meaning
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: around the time of his arrest, or whether it happened
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: after his suicide during the continued developments there. But the
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: topic of Epstein came up in our conversation. Multiple people
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: were there and sort of the news it was commented
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: on being the news of the day, and the President
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: said something to the effect that he had broken off
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: with Epstein long ago and that he had actually pushed
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: him out of mar A Lago. Question. Okay, and just
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: to clarify, those were both conversations with President Trump. Answer,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: both involved President Trump. Yeah, those are the only two
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: conversations I can remember where Epstein came up with the
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: president question and when you say that you told the
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: president who the news of the suicide would affect. What
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: did you mean by that answer? Who would affect? Did
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I say that question? I'm sorry, unless I'm misunderstanding your characterization. Answer,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean to say that question, Okay, Answer I said,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I told him that he committed suicide and that he
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: suspected it was apparently suicide. And he had the same
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: reaction I did, which was, how the hell did that happen?
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: He's in federal custody and the last everyone knew, he
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: was being carefully watched, precisely for that reason. And I
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: think I conveyed to him that it was appalling and
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that we were going to investigate it vigorously, and he
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: had the same reaction I did, which is going to
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: certainly generate a lot of conspiracy theories. These are not
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: his exact words, but that's what I remember about the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: conversation being effectively maybe words to that effect. Yeah. Question,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: did President Trump say anything about the conversation? Answer by Barr.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's all I can recall. Question, So, just to tie
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: this all together, would I be correct in understanding that
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: prior to mister Epstein's suicide you did not communicate directly
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: with President Trump in connection with the Epstein investigation. Answer?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I said that one conversation I recall could have happened
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: before his suicide, around the time of his arrest. But
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: my best recollection is it happened later? But those are
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the only two conversations I can remember having with the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: President directly about Epstein. Mister O'Callahan about Epstein generally, not
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: the Epstein investigation. Barr, Right, yeah, all right, folks, We're
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: going to wrap up right here, and in the next episode,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off with
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Bill Barr and his deposition given to Congress question shifting
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: back to Florida's investigation, it's my understanding that you accused
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: yourself during your second tenure as Attorney General from DJ's
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: review of that prosecution and plea agreement. Is that correct answer? No,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't recuse myself. I think in my confirmation hearing
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I put that I didn't want to cross that bridge
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: because I needed to console people about the issue, and
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I wasn't sure of the timing of things, and so
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you know, when things occurred and so forth. So later on,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: when it became an issue, I had it reviewed and
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: got the advice of the ethics people in the DJ,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and I did not recuse myself. Question did not accuse yourself?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Answer yes, question and this is the Florida investigation. Answer No,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: it was the to that he's cut off the Southern
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: District of New York investigation. Answer. That's the only thing
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that I was aware of going on when I was there.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Question Okay, So to clarify, did you have any involvement
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: at all in the DJ's review of the Florida investigation
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that took place during your second tenure. Answer? I don't
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: recall playing a role in that review in terms of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: whether it was proper. I didn't play a role in
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that review. I think there was discussion when New York
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: was moving forward with the prosecution, people wanted to be
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: careful that they didn't run a foul of any of
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the provisions in that agreement. Question and I can be
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: more specific. So it's my understanding that the DOJ's Office
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of Professional Responsibility undertook an investigation in twenty nineteen into
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding the Florida plea deal. Answer right, I
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't hovering over that or in that I learned about
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: their conclusions, you know, from when they concluded, when they
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: reached them question after they issued the report. Answer I
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: can't remember exactly when. At some point I learned that
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: OPR was saying that it was improper. Question have you
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: ever discussed the Epstein investigation generally with mister Acosta? Answer?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I don't recall discussions of the investigation. I may have
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: around that there was a lot of publicity around the
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: fact that he might be pushed out of the administration.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I may have expressed commiseration with them that he was
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: facing that kind of public challenge, but I didn't discuss
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the investigation. Question What was your understanding of the reason
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: that he was pushed out of the administration? Answer? I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: don't know. I think he resigned. I think he resigned,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: So my understanding was he resigned so this didn't continue,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: this issue didn't continue to haund the administration. That was
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: my recollection of what happened. Question And to your understanding,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: did he resign on his own initiative or was he
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: under pressure from the White House? Answer? I don't know.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I think it was explained as him stepping down to
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: avoid continued problems, But I don't know what happened behind
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the scenes. With respect to the report that OPR issued,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: you mentioned that you took issue with, as I understood it,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: mister Acosta's failure to involve the victims in the process. Answer, well,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: my recollection and I haven't looked at this, but my
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: recollection is that part of it ended up not allowing
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the victims to have their say, which is under federal
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: statute they have the right to do. That's my recollection
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: of the issue, and so I thought that I think
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it's wrong not to let the victims have their say.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And here I also thought it was legal vulnerability, but
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that was just me, as a private citizen saying, well, gee, wow, question,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I'll represent to you. The report also concluded that mister
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Acosta's decision to resolve the federal investigation through the NPA
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: constituted poor judgment and opr's words, among other things, by
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: resolving the federal investigation before significant investigative steps were completed.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Is that consistent with your understanding? Answer right now, I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: don't have a recollection of that question. Mister Acosta reportedly
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: is stated that he was told that Jeffrey Epstein quote
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: belongs to intelligence and to leave it alone. Unquote. Are
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you aware of mister Acosta saying that? Answer no, other
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: than what's been reported in articles over the years. Question
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: do you have any knowledge of mister Epstein having any
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: ties to any intelligence agency? Answer no, question or of
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: mister Acosta being told Answer I don't know about any ties.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe he was working for
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the CIA or any intelligence agency, and I'm dubious about
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: claims like that. Now, many American businessmen who have foreign
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: contacts sometimes will talk to intelligence agencies to provide information
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: to them, and the CIA has a unit that goes
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: around and talks to people who are well connected and
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: ask some questions. So my supposition when I saw things
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: about him being connected to US intelligence, maybe like other businessmen,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: he talks to them, but this is not in my opinion,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: based on what I saw, I didn't think it was
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: an intelligence operation and I never received any information that
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: led me to believe that. Question do you have any
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: idea why mister Acosta would suggest that it was? Answer?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know he did. Whether he did, wasn't that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: something attributed something to him? Question that's his reported statement? Answer? Okay.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Question I'll shift gears now and move on to the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Southern District of New York's investigation, and for the sake
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of brevity, if it's okay with you, I'll refer to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Southern District of New York as SDNY. Answer. Sure, that's
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: how I would have referred to it. Question. I understand
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier that you a determination was made that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: you would not recuse yourself from the SDNY investigation, And
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: just to make sure my understanding is clear, that was
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: based on input from the Ethics Office at DOJ. Answer
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that's my recollection. Yeah. Question okay. And do you recall
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the rationale for concluding that your continued involvement was consistent
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: with ethics regulations? Answer? Because I didn't really have a connection.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I wasn't involved in the first investigation. Question there has
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: been mentioned in the press about your father's role as
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the head master of Dalton School in New York. Was
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: that a consideration in the Ethics Office analysis? Answer? Actually,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I don't even think. I don't know whether I was
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: aware of that at the time. Obviously not, it's not
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: pertinent at all. Question. You spoke generally during the previous
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: round about the nature and extent of your involvement in
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the SDNY investigation. I'd like to just delve into that
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: in a bit more detail if I could. To begin with,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: could you describe the allocation of responsibility between yourself and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: US Attorney Berman? Answer? Well, the US Attorney all US
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: attorneys are responsible for pursuing investigations and making prosecutorial judgments. Yeah.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Just to clarify, I don't mean generally operationally within DJ
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: I'm speaking specifically with respect to the Epstein investigation. Barr Well,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: this was a case that was within his purview. He
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: had obviously approved or was involved in, either its launching
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: or continued under him, and so he was responsible for
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: conducting the investigation and making the initial prosecutorial judgments. Also,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: under the department rules that if he believes there is
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: a basis for investigating someone who is a prominent person
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: or a senior political official or whatever, he is supposed
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to send an urgent report to my attention. Question, what
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: was the extent during the sdnwise investigation of your interaction
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: with FBI agents? Answer during the investigation of it? Question yes,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Epstein investigation. Answer. I would say agents up in New York,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: but people at headquarters after the suicide, I told the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: headquarters to make sure that they flooded the zone. That is,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: they provided the investigative office, which was the New York
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: FBI office, all the resources necessary and made sure that
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the federal investigation was being done. And Bodich oversaw he's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a deputy in Washington. The actual investigation was carried out
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: by New York agents, most of it, I think by
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: New York agents. I didn't have contact with people up
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: in New York the agents up in New York. Question
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and part bar cuts are off. It's possible that when
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I was being briefed at some point they would put
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: someone like that on the line to explain something to me.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: But I didn't seek out contacts with people and the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: people the FBI made available to me. Question within the
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: FBI headquarters apart for mister Bowdich, was there anyone else
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you communicated with directly about the investigation? Answer? FBI question. Yes, answer,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember who was at the head of
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Criminal Division. I don't recall anyone other than Bowdich. I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: think I may have had conversations with Chris Ray about it,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: of what a mess this thing was. Question and within
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the SDNY did you ever communicate directly with any of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the line prosecutors. Answer no, not that I recall. Question
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and you spoke in the previous round, as I understood
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: about being briefed by the DAG at the regular meetings
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: that were held at Main Justice, you were briefed by
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: US Attorney Berman as well. Answer you know, I think
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I probably had conversations with Berman, a general conversation, but
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I think to the extent that communicated or his people communicated,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: it would have been more to the Deputy's office, and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: then I would have been told about it. Question when
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: did your conversation with mister Berman take place? Barr? You know,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I can't say for sure when that was. All I
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: know is that I became aware of the investigation. I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: became aware that there were people that were looking at
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: the issue of whether or not it would be permitted
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: under to what extent there are limitations and polled by
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Florida Plea agreement, things like that, And I remember my
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: best recollection is I had conversations with them after the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: suicide where he strongly assured me and made it clear
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: that this was a priority of the office and that
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: they would continue pushing ahead. Question and did you ever
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: discuss with mister Berman, any of the conversations you had
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: with President Trump. Answer no, not that I can recall.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Question and again, in terms of the investigative process, were
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: you involved at all in the decision surrounding what charges
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to bring before the grand jury against mister Epstein? Answer no.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Question did you review the indictment? Answer I can't recall
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: reviewing the indictment. I might have been shown it. Question
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: were you to that he cuts her off? But I
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: don't recall it. Question were you briefed regarding the specific
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: charges that SDNY intended to bring? Answer? I think I
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: was told what they were. I don't recall how deep
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the conversation was. Question was there ever any disagreement between
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: you and SDNY over who to charge or what charges
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to bring? Answer? I don't remember one. Answer You mean
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the first time around the initial indictment against Epstein in
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: July O'Callahan. Maybe a timeframe would help the witness July Okallahan,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Are we talking twenty nineteen? Redacted? Yes, witness okay.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Question to your knowledge, did anyone else that main justice
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: disagree with the charges that sdn Y intended to bring? Answer?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: I don't recall any disagreement. Question in the two conversations
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you have with President Trump, did the President express any
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: views on the investigation? Answer not that I can recall.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: No question. Did he ever give you any instruction with
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: respect to it? Answer no question, or express any preference?
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Answer no question with respect to the investigation? Answer no question.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: To your knowledge, did anyone else at the doj th'cus
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the SDNY investigation with anyone in the White House? Answer
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: not to my knowledge. Question the FBI's investigation Did that
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: continue post indictment? Answer the FBI's investigation of the suicide.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Question the FBI's investigation into mister Epstein's crimes. Barr. My
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: understanding is that the investigation was going forward because they
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: were at the stage looking for people who are complicit
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: in the trafficking, either by facilitating it or by essentially
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: exploiting the victims. Question and do you know how long
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the FBI's investigation continued? Answer? I think it continued throughout
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: my tenure. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: right here, and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: picking right back up where we left off with the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Bill Bard deposition transcript. Question and do you know how
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: long the FBI's investigation continued? Answer? I think it continued
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: throughout my tenure. Question. I'd like to shift the focus
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: on the evidence that the FBI obtained during the course
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: of the investigation, and I'm going to that she's cut
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: off by bar. I think it was an investigation directed
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: by the Southern District, so it involved their prosecutorial team.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the FBI in the initial stages of the investigation,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: but they were essentially cut off. Yes, answered by Bar
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: again working with the prosecutors. Question understood. I'm going to
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: ask the court reporter to mark Exhibit A as an
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: ABC News article titled what the Government Evidence List tells
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: us about the unreleased Epstein Files, dated July seventeenth, twenty
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: twenty five, as Exhibit B, a three page catalog of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: evidence that was reportedly prepared by the FBI. Barr, should
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I read the whole thing or redacted? No, I can
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: point to you. You're certainly welcome to. I can also
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: point you to the portions that I plan to ask
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you about Barr. Well, why don't we try that? Redacted? Sure? Question.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So the article describes Attorney General Bondi making available, quote
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: unquote the first phase of the classified Epstein files. Mister Barr,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: were you previously aware of Miss Bondi making these materials public? Answer?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Just what I read in the press. Question do you
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: have any understanding as to why Attorney General Bondi did so?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Answer I've never discussed the matter with or I don't know.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Question And do you have an understanding of what the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Epstein files contained? As the phrase is used in this piece. O'Callahan,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the lawyer for Barr answers as you mean in the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: ABC piece witness where it was used redacted. I'm looking
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: at the first sentence of the article that refers to
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Attorney General Bondi releasing the first phase of the classified
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Epstein files. It's the very first sentence of the article. Answer, yeah,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: I see that. Yeah. Question do you have an understanding
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: as to what those files are comprised of? Answer? No question.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And then Exhibit B is a catalog, which, according to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the ABC piece, is the only document in the first
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: phase of the declassified files that hadn't previously been made public.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Answer by Barr. This is what you've given to me. Question,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: So it's what the ABC piece describes as the only
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: documents in the first phase of the declassified materials that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Attorney General paum Bondi released that have not previously been
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: made public. Answer, okay. Question, and my question is have
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you seen this catalog before? Answer? I don't recall seeing
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: it before. Question Are you familiar with any of the
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: items that it describes? Answer you want me to go
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: through each item. I'm not generally I'll just say this,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not generally familiar or even specifically familiar with the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: evidence amassed by the Southern District to prosecute either Reps
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: before he committed suicide, obviously, and then what they may
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: have collected that affected other potential defendants. In other words,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I wasn't monitoring the case that closely to know what
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the evidence was. Question you mentioned that, Bar. I think
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: while I was there they reached the conclusion that they
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: had a case against Maxwell, and I don't have specific
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: recollections of it, but I'm sure I was briefed on
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: what the charges were and what the evidence supported it. Question. Okay, answer,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: but I have no way of liking or linking any
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of this. This is gibberish to me because I have
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: no way of linking the content to the case. Question. Okay,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: O Callahan redacted. Are you sure Exhibit B is what
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the article refers to, because the article refers to a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: three page index, and this is much longer than three
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: pages redacted? Yep, so ed. That is an enhanced version
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: of the catalog, which, if you printed out from the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: publicly available source, contains typeface that is far smaller. So
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: we blew it up so that your client would be
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: able to read it at the witness table. Mister Callahan, okay,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the witness bar Okay, thank you, mister O Callahan, Me too, Barr.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't know this stuff. I mean, I may have
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: been aware of some of it, but it has to
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: be better identified for me, you know. But as I say,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: generally speaking, the way I understood what was going on
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: in the Southern District, other than looking at the issue
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: of suicide, which I carefully monitored, was doing what a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: US attorney office normally does. And my understanding is that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: at that point after the suicide, they were looking to
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: make to see if there was evidence to charge someone
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: for participating in the trafficking, and I didn't monitor their investigation,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: as I wouldn't generally monitor an investigation unless there was
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: a particular reason to do so. Redacted. Question you mentioned earlier,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: as I understood that your knowledge the FBI's investigation continued
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: throughout your tenure as Attorney General. Answer yes, question to
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: your understanding, did it continue after you left? EJ Answer,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I don't recall. I think I don't recall, but my
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: impression is that this was a very motivated group of prosecutors,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and this was a high priority for the office and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: for the Department, and they were moving forward. My belief
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and understanding was if they came across evidence that would
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: establish either that someone helped them in recruiting these young
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: girls or was involved in sexual activity with them, that
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: they would have proceeded on that case. That was my view,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and I didn't think that this group of prosecutors would
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: stop until they were satisfied that they had gone through
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the evidence. So from my standpoint, both for reasons of
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Justice Department protocol which required them to alert me if
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: they actually started going down that trail, as to any
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: prominent person, and also just from the practicality that I
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: think that kind of information, if someone is trying to
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: sit on it would have bled out eventually. I was
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: not aware of that evidence that they had that they
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: would do that. I was never given reason to believe
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that they had evidence to make a case. Jasmin Crockett,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: can I jump in really quickly on this point, just
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: to follow up, It's been widely reported that the President
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: was informed by the current Attorney General of Pound Bondi
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: that he appears in the Department of Justice files on
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. I'm curious to know in those conversations that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you recall with President, do you recall ever informing them
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: that he was in the Epstein files Number one, I'll
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: ask that, so I don't have a compound question the witness. Yeah, well,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what Epstein files referred to these days,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: but no, I didn't have that kind of conversation with them.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I think at some point logs were made available or
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: republic that he was on Epstein's plane making commutes from
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: or flying between Miami and New York, or Miami and
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: New Jersey or stuff like that. And I think that
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: that got out publicly. I don't recall discussing that with them,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: miss Crockett, okay, bar And I can't even remember when
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: it came out, Crockett, okay. So to be clear, you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: had no direct knowledge of the president himself being named
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: in the Epstein investigation, is what you're telling us, Barr. No,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that in the year many years up to
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the case, there had been news coverage reporting on essentially
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: two kinds of people, people who were either in business
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: or social networks and had connections with them, which to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: me doesn't mean that is a crime. And there are
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: many names thrown around, like then, there were names that
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: were specific credible evidence or a specific serious evidence by,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: for example, a victim, a specific victim that were exploited
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: by a particular person. So there were those sort of people,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: and my understanding was that the New York Office was
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: trying to see if there was in fact any evidence
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to support that any of these people actually violated the law.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Jasmin Crockett, and you have no direct knowledge of any
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: of the now young women or women that claimed that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: they had encounters with the president through Epstein. Correct, Barr.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I was never told by the Southern District that they
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: had evidence to support any claim like that. Crockett, thank you, witness.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: As to who as to Trump? Crockett, Yes, Witness, Yeah, Crockett, Sorry,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: President Trump. Witness. I was never told that there was
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: evidence to support that claim, Jasmin Crockett, I'm done. Sorry.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Question just shifting back to the evidence that the FBI gathered.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: There have been reports of hidden cameras and recording systems
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: at Jeffrey Epstein's New York residence. Are you aware of
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the existence of any such cameras and a recording system? Answer?
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I think when the search I was aware. I can't
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: even remember if it was after I left or while
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I was there, but I remember that there were cameras
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: uncovered during the searches that were made of the Manhattan Building,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and I think also the island maybe even wasn't there
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: a place in New Mexico as well. I heard that
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: there were things being uncovered like that bullshit. Nobody ever
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: rated Zoro Ranch, Bill Barr. This guy knows a lot
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: more than he's telling us. Count on it. Question, did
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you ever see the footage? Answer? No? Question from the system?
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Answer no question? And is that footage, to your knowledge
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: still within the possession of the DOJ. Answer, whatever information
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: was collected, I have no reason to think it's not
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: in their possession. I never went and looked at the
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: evidence that they were collecting. Question do you have an
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: understanding as to why that material hasn't been publicly released? Answer?
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I have no knowledge as to why, but I think
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I understand the potential reasons for it. Question which in
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: your viewer what answer? Well, I mean, in terms of
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: conducting an investigation, you would have some stuff that's grand
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: jury material that was collected pursuant to the grand jury
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: process and through the grand jury process, and that would
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: normally not be made public. And I think there are
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: strong reasons for not making grand jury public, including requiring
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the approval of a court's approval. As to other evidence,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I think there are strong policy reasons not to make
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: it available, which an attorney general at the time has
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: to make judgments as to what are the reasons to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: make a public and one of the reasons against making
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: it public and among the reasons for not making it
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: public generally just here all is is because there are frequently,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: there's frequently tidbits of evidence that can be cast publicly
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: as incriminating when in fact, against all of the evidence,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: it isn't, and the judgments about credibility are made. I
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: think we've all seen examples where three zero two's don't
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: necessarily could be wrong on something they say. A witness
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: could later say I didn't say that, and so forth.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: So you have to be careful about what you say
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: about people. And so the general principle is that if
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: you have enough evidence to charge someone, you put that
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: evidence out through the process. But you don't just open
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: your files. So I can understand why there is reluctance
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: to it. And as I say, an attorney general has
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: to make balance question. As we saw a few minutes
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: ago when we looked at the ABC article exhibit A Attorney
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: General Pam BONDI did release a significant volume of material
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: earlier this year. Do you disagree with their decision to
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: do that? Answer? No, I don't agree or disagree. I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: haven't kept up with what's in there. And as I say,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: it's sort of an individual judgment based on balancing. And
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I don't have transparency into all the factors that are
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: at play here. I mean a lot of the information
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: is out there because of civil cases. You know, that's
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: another important part of the context here. A lot to
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the extent there are victims, I mean, which obviously there
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: are victims, but a lot of those victims have neither
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: been encouraged to bring civil suits or have brought civil suits.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: And in that context, a lot of the evidence has
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: been released through those cases. Question and just so we're
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: clear on the parameters, Am I correct that it was
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: within the Attorney general's authority to release materials like this
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: at his or her discretion. Answer, well, there's no law
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: against it. I guess the way I look at it,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: there's no law against it except for grand jury secrecy.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: That's my understanding of the situation. Question okay, answer, but
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: there are consequences for releasing everything out there, because that
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: will make it harder to conduct investigations in the future
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: on anything if people say, whatever they say is going
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: to be out in public, even though it's not evidence
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: of a crime. Question, are there, in your view certain
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: categories of cases that rise to a level of public
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: interest such that the release of this kind of information
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: is appropriate despite the considerations that you just articulated. Answer, Well,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: part of my direct experience was obviously the Muller Report.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Now it's not exactly the same kind of situation, but
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: there I did agree to put out the reports, even
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: though it canvassed a lot of the evidence, but we
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: sanitized it for the grand jury material ever, classified material,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and also material that was unfair to third parties who
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: we were not charging. If we weren't charging someone with
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: a crime or accusing someone of a committing a crime,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: that was one of the other considerations that we used.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: But we did at the end of the day, I
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: felt the public interest demanded putting out what we put out. Question,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: do you think that a case for a public release
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: in the instance of the Mueller report was stronger or
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: weaker than the case with respect to the Epstein material. Answer?
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: You know, it had to do with the head of
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: state and whether he was a Russian spy. I don't
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: think you can get more important than that. All right, folks,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: next episode, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off with
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Bill Barr and his deposition before Congress. Question shifting back
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: to the evidence. As you're probably aware, there's been significant
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: focus on the possible existence of what's been described as
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: an Epstein client list. Is that a term that you've
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: heard before? Answer by Barr. I've heard the term, but
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I've always been confused as to what it actually referred to.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: I think it needs to be clarified. Question do you
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: have an understanding as to what the terms refer to? Answer? Well,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I guess my view as Epstein sort of had three lives.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: He was a socialite and he had a lot of
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: social activity that was legal, and he was meeting prominent
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: people all over the place socially. Second, he was a
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: business guy and had business relationships all over the place.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: And third he had a perverted practice or recruiting young
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: girls for his own satisfaction, and there were some allegations
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: that he made those girls available the contacts of his
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: And so when I hear a client list, are we
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: talking about his financial clients? I doubt it. Are we
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: talking about his social phone book? I doubt it? Are
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: we talking about are we sort of equating this to
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: acting like a madman out of bordello, and that he
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: sort of has a list of his clients that used
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: the bordello. That's what I think people are referring to.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Question so answer, So that's how I take the term question. So,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: with that understanding, are you aware of a list that
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: fits the category that you just DisCrit answer like a
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: bordello madam? Question? Yes? Answer No, I was never told
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that there was such a list. I don't have a
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: reason to think that there is such a list. But
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: by that, we're talking about a list that's put together
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: by him. Okay, he's compiled something. That's not to say
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: that by going through the evidence, interviews, statements of the victims,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: and so forth, you couldn't figure out who some of
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: those people were. Question. But again, just tying all this
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: together to your understanding, does there exist a single document
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: that contains the names of individuals who had participated in
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: or were complicit in the crimes that Jeffrey Epstein was
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: charged with? Answer? I have no reason. I was never
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: told that that was the case by the SDNY or
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: the FBI. Question. In public statements, Attorney General Pam Bondi
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: had initially seemed to acknowledge that such a document existed
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: and was asked specifically about quote unquote the client list,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: but then backtracked, as reflected in the July twenty twenty
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: five memorandum for the FBI that explicitly disclaims the existence
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of any such list. Do you have any understanding as
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to why Attorney General Bondi initially made that representation. Answer no,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I have no knowledge. I could see that her explanation.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I heard her explanation of it, and I think it's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: potentially a good explanation. I don't discount it. Question did
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: it strike you as unusual that she changed your position publicly? Answer? Well,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know if she changed your position. My understanding
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: is that, and I did watch the interview that she
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: you know, she started answering. She was basically geared up
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: to answer the question about how she was going to
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: get the material out, and the question or at the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: end put in the phrase client list, and she blew
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: through that and just gave the answer she was going
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: to give, like it's on my desk. And her explanation
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I think is that she was referring to the file
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: that she intended to put out. I don't discount that,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: but I have no knowledge. Question Okay, are you aware
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: of the doctor document that Jeffrey Epstein kept that he
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: referred to in the press as quote unquote the black book? Answer?
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Do I have knowledge of what question? A document that
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the press is described as maintained by mister Epstein and
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: referred to as a black book. Answer. I think I've
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: heard I've seen that expression in the media, But as
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: I say, no one has ever And I sort of
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: took that as the client list since versus as a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: phone book with his everybody in it that he socializes
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: or does business with. And as I've said, no one
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: has ever indicated to me that there is something one
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: place that compiles the people that he essentially exploited these
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: girls by providing them to these individuals. Question. So you
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: haven't seen a phone directory that mister Epstein compiled. Answer
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: not that I can recall. You mean a phone directory
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: of what question containing names of people that were associated
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: with mister Epstein. Answer just generally associated. I don't recall that,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be what It wouldn't surprise me. I
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: wouldn't think that by itself it had evidentiary value other
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: than that he knew a person. You mentioned earlier that
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the FBI continued to investigate the existence of possible co
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: conspirators of mister Epstein. Could you just generally walk us
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: through the investigative steps that DOJ took to pursue those
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: co conspirators? Answer? I mean that was done by the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Southern District. I mean the person in charge of the
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: investigation was US attorney Jeff Berman, and he had an
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: experienced team, and they would have he would have to
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the extent that there was any direction or judgments being
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: made that required supervision, he would have made them, not me. Question,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: did you have any visibility into subpoena that SDNY issued?
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Answer visibility in the sense of reproving them ahead of time.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I don't recall approving subpoenas in that case. I don't
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: recall issues coming up to me. It's possible, I mean
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: a lot was coming in question. And what about knowledge
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: after the fact that they had been issued? Answer well,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I think to the extent I read things that may
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: have involved like that. I assume they got search warrants
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to collect stuff from the house and things like that. Question,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: but you didn't get any direct information from SDNY regarding
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: the issuance of subpoenas answer, not that I can recall.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Question and what about witness interviews? Answer? I think there
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: was a dispute over Prince Andrew. Question okay, and how
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: did you he interrupts her? Not between me and the office,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: but between Prince Andrew and the Southern District. And I
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: was aware of the dispute because I forgot how I
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: became aware, whether it was public or what? Question? And
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: what do you recall of the dispute? Answer? I think
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: they wanted to talk to him and he wouldn't really
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: submit to an interview. That's my recollection of what the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: dispute was over. Question and did you discuss that with
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the askedn why answer? No? I think after the fact,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I think Berman went out and gave a pretty strong statement.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I think he may have been standing in front of
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: the house, as I recall, something to that effect. And
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: it was about Andrew basically trying to say publicly that
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: he was cooperating and in real fact he was not cooperating.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: And I think I talked to him about that question
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: talk to answer after it was his question, mister Berman
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: bar yeah. Question. A number of prominent individuals have been
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: alleged to be connected to mister Epstein as his clients
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: or otherwise as associates. What I'd like to do is
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: read to you a list of names, and for each
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I ask you to state whether, to your knowledge, that
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: individual was within the scope of DJ's investigation. If anything,
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: DOJ determined with respect to the individual? Does that make sense? Answer? Yeah,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: But I mean I don't know what within the scope
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: of investigation means, whether they were subjects or targets. Question.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: How about witnesses, subjects or targets O'Callahan. In an Epstein
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: investigation that lasted for multiple decades, You're going to ask
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: him if any of these individuals were ever somehow part
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: of that investigation redacted? Yeah, O'Callahan, that's too broad. I
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: don't think it actually comports with what was stated. The
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: scope of this is redacted. Okay, I can come at
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: it in a different way. I'll just read the first name,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz. Did mister Dershowitz, to your knowledge, ever become
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: relevant to the Epstein investigation in any respect? The witness
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Okallahan. And this is all Barr I assumed.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I did not go and ask them who you're talking to? Now,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that in itself sort of suggests they're targeting someone or
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: even think someone is a subject versus a witness and
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: so forth. But I didn't get into that. I didn't
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: go up to them and say, gee, are you looking
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: into Dershowitz? Are you looking into Governor Richardson? Are you
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: looking into George Mitchell? Are you looking at Donald Trump?
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Are you looking at Branson? Or whatever? I didn't do that. Well,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: maybe you should have. How about that, Darth barr I
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: saw names appearing in the media hyping all these so
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: called connections. I did not ask them whether, but I
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: assume that some of these people were examined redacted. So
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: you didn't discuss Alan Dershowitz with anyone else within DJ
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the witness no I obviously may have mentioned, may have
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: discussed Dershowitz sifting around my office saying wow, O'Callahan. That's
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: part of the problem is that there's so much media
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: reporting witness, right, O'Callahan, media reporting on individuals that in
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: common workplace conversation, stuff like that happens. He just happens
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to be the Attorney General of the United States. Barr
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I did not delve into the investigation of Epstein redacted,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: so Barr, I let the investigators let the chips fall
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: where they may redacted understood. So again, just for the
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: sake of clarity, Apart from information that came to you
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: through the media, what was publicly reported was, to your knowledge,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Alan Dershowitz relevant to the investigation in any way. Barr,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean these questions are a little
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: bit too broad for my taste, O'Callahan. It's a very
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: difficult thing you're asking him to do. Barr. Of course
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: he's relevant to the investigation. You would think redacted. Were
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: there discussions within the DOJ about Alan Dershowitz to your
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: recollect Barr, as I say, sitting around my office, people
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: could say, ge Professor Dershowitz is in hot water. But
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I did not. I was not in communication with the
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: SDNY about the handling of the investigation. Oh callahan, I
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: mean that might be an approach if SDNY ever briefed them.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: You know, these people are being targets of the investigation
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: because SDNY, as he testified to over and over again,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: was in charge of the investigation, so they were going
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: to report they would have reported an urgent matter to them. Barr.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: I don't recall any discussion with SDNY where we discussed
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the nature and weight of evidence that they had against
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: the individuals that, in my mind had been identified publicly
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: as people who could be involved and in proper activities.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: I was told that the office had evidence in its
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: possession that established that somebody was involved in those activities.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I don't remember sitting down discussing, you know, g here's
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: the weight of the evidence, or here's something that gives
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: us leads we can pursue. I wasn't focused on, you know, myself,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: looking at or hovering over the handling of that case.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Question Okay, So for the rest of the names, I
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: will couch the question as follows. Did you ever become
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: aware of each of these individuals either being a witness
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: or subject or a target in the SDN why investigation? Answer?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Become aware of you had things published all the time?
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Question right bar in the press. Question about their formal
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: status in the dj investigation. I don't think that would
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: be publicly reported. Answer? Okay, the formal status that was
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: provided to me by the SDN. Y question yup, that's
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: all I'm asking answer Okay. Question so the next name
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: is David Copperfield. Answer I don't recall that being so question,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. I don't recall that being so question Prince
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Andrew Barr. And when I say I don't recall, I
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: mean my best recollection. I did not get that information question. Okay,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: answer go ahead. I'm I just read down the list,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Oh Callahan, I think the question about Prince Andrew is pending. Barr.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: That's right, I was aware of Prince Andrew's issue. You know,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: go through the list. I'll tell you, Oh, Callahan, So
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: just to clarify, you're aware of Prince Andrew being sought
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: as a witness by the Southern District Barr, Yes, and
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: then he disputed over him cooperating. I was aware of
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: that question. Bill Clinton Barr, same answer question, Bill Richardson answer,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: same answer question. George Mitchell, same answer question. Glenn Dubin,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: same answer, Bill Gates, same answer question, Leon Black, same
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: answer question. Okay, Now, Jasmin Crockett interrupts. Just to clarify,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: when you're saying, same answer, is that the same answer
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: as Prince Andrew or is that the same answer as
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: the prior because the witness the ones other than that, Crockett,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: they were different witness other than Prince Andrew Crockett. Okay,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: just to be clear for the record, and really really quickly,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in just before we after wrap,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: because we're talking about the investigations. Maxwell was investigated during
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: your tenure, not necessarily taken to trial while you were
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: still at the DOJ. She is someone that was involved
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: in the SDNY situation. You were aware that she was
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: not born in this country, correct bar. Yes, Crockett. Okay.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: You were also aware that a jury of her peers
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: found her guilty of five out of six counts that
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: were brought against her by the SDNY, including child sex
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: trafficking conspiracy, correct bar. Yes, Crockett. In addition to that,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: you have been made aware through public reports. Well, let
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: me clarify this child sex trafficking is not considered to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: be a low level offense in the federal government, correct bar.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what low level means, but it's a
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: serious offense, Crockett. It's definitely a felony, correct bar. Oh, yes, Crockett,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: and a person can face up to life imprisonment for it,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: correct Barr. I haven't looked at the statute, but that
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me. Crockett. Okay. And typically when someone is
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: classified by the time that they enter into the Bureau
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: of Prisons, their classification is usually based upon a multitude
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: of things, one of them being how serious of an
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: offensive person has been found guilty of, correct witness. That's
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: one of the factors, Crockett, Okay, in addition to their
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: criminal history and other things. But long story short, they're
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: looking at whether or not the person is potentially a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: danger to the community, correct Barr. That's another factor, Crockett.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: When you were reading your public things, I'm assuming you've
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: heard that there has been a transfer approved from MS
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Maxwell to a minimum security prison camp. Are you aware
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: of that? Oh, Callahan, you're referring to press reports, Congresswoman Crockett, Yes,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: because that bar I've seen, Crockett, that would be the
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: only way, Barr says, I've seen those reports, Crockett during
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: your tenure as Attorney General, during either time. I'm curious
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: to know, are you ever is it ever within your
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: recollection that there was someone who had been convicted, finally convicted. Well,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I guess it's not final. She's still on appeal, convicted
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of five counts of child sex trafficking, and they somehow
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: ended up transferred to a minimum security prison camp. Barr.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, off the top of my head, I can't
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: remember a situation like that, Jasmin Crockett. In fact, you'd
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: agree with me that in order for someone to be
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: transferred under those types of circumstances, it would actually take
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: a higher level of approval. That is not something that
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: just any low level BOP person would be able to do.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Correct Barr, I wish that were correct. You never know, Crockett,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: because mistakes happen. Bar. Yeah, sometimes you wake up and
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: you find that something's happened, like taking someone off suicide watch, Crockett.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: But you would agree with me that the policy in
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: general is not to put someone who's been convicted of
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: those types of crimes into a minimum security camp. Bar. Actually,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: I think the way the system works is the political
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: level usually allows the Bureau of Prisons broad leeway in
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: determining how people are handled under their structure and using
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: their criteria, and if they disagree, they might intervene. Crockett understood, Bar,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: That's how I think the system generally operates. Crockett understood.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: To the best of your knowledge, whether it's during your
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: tenure or during reports, she has never been in the
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: type of facility in the last four years of her
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: incarceration until now. Correct, bar I gather that's the case, Crockett. Okay, thanks,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna wrap up right here, and we're
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: gonna pick up where we left off in the next episode.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.