Latest / Everyday Ancestral with James Barry / How to Retrain Your Brain for Anxiety, Burnout & Nervous System Recovery | Ashok Gupta

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How to Retrain Your Brain for Anxiety, Burnout & Nervous System Recovery | Ashok Gupta · Everyday Ancestral with James Barry

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We started comparing ourselves to suddenly the richest, the highest status, the most beautiful people around the world.
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The core propensity is to feel dissatisfied and want more.
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You ask someone who's got $10 million in the bank, they'll feel even more insecure than someone who's got $1 million in the bank.
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People are living on the edge of burnout.
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We're not giving time for the system to recover.
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And that's where brain week training comes in.
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A lot of people today, they feel tired, wired, anxious, or stuck in their own head.
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even when they're eating well and doing, you know, all the right things.
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So why do you think so many people feel like their body just won't calm down anymore?
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Well, James, it's the modern epidemic, isn't it?
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Like everyone you meet, what do they say?
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I'm feeling just tired.
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I'm feeling overwhelmed.
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I'm feeling a little burnt out.
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I don't feel quite myself.
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And when we meet people exactly as described, many people, they may not have a chronic illness,
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but they certainly don't feel they're thriving in the modern world.
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In our kind of model of what's going on here,
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it's because we aren't living according to our genetic inheritance.
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So this brain, this body, this nervous system, this immune system
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has evolved over millions of years to get us to where we are.
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And I say millions because it doesn't just contain the DNA of
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human beings or gorillas and apes.
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It actually contains the DNA of all the plant life,
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all the animal life, all the different animals that have come before us, those adaptations are
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within us.
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So for most of human evolution, we were living in small tribes, outdoors, eating non-toxic
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food, non-toxic air, non-toxic water, and thriving, although we didn't have healthcare.
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Fast forward
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to the last 50 years, what are we doing?
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Putting people inside boxes, so they're not outdoors,
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taking them away from nature, making them sit in front of a screen, sedentary lifestyle,
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staring at a small screen, working on various things, but also comparing themselves to everybody
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else on social media, hunched forward, eating toxic food, breathing toxic air, and not necessarily
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having clean drinking water, stressed out, comparing themselves to everyone in terms of
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beauty, in terms of status, in terms of power, in terms of money.
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That is a recipe for causing
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anxiety, depression, and some of the precursors of that fatigue, exhaustion, tiredness, lack of sleep.
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What I do love about what you're saying is because a lot of people do think that when they're not working well with their day-to-day or this modern society, that they feel like it's a weakness or that they're broken.
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And in a sense, you're saying it's not that at all.
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Is our survival system almost doing its job too well?
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Yes, exactly right.
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And we aren't a victim of it.
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It simply means we have to put certain things into place.
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And let's take a simple analogy.
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If you drive your car in a suburban area in the US or wherever, the car's not going to get that dirty.
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Right.
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But if you suddenly take your car off road for that weekend and it's something that you don't normally do and the car gets dirty, full of dirt all over it, you just have to clean it more regularly.
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right so in a similar way although we may not be living according to our genetic inheritance
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there are things that we can do to offset the effects of modern life which is essentially
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indulging in more of the self-care for mind body and spirit and in that way we can benefit from
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all the the great things that the modern world offers us but offset the downsides of that it
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seems like we're finally starting to talk about recovery within the last few years before that
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it was just go, go, go, right?
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Multitasking, things like that.
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And I think we've come to
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realize that that stuff actually doesn't help.
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It hinders.
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When we're talking about
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supporting people's health, are we talking about their minds?
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Are we talking about their body?
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Or are we talking about both?
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This is where the classic Cartesian separation comes in,
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where modern medicine has made us think of the body and the mind and even, let's say,
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the spirit as separate aspects of human experience or human existence.
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And in fact, all of these
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things are one thing and our brains and our bodies don't differentiate between these things.
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So therefore, what we're really saying is self-care is different tools and techniques,
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different ways of living that support our overall nervous system and immune system.
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Because if we're wired for survival, so we can pass on our genes to the next generation,
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the two core systems that facilitate that are the nervous and immune system the nervous system being
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the brain the spinal cord the electrical system that sends the signals around the body telling
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it what to do and then the immune system is the immune system the chemicals that make sure we
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defend against viruses toxins and bacteria and those two systems are very delicate and if they
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aren't finely tuned they will get out of whack they will cause dysbiosis in the gut they'll
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with all the symptoms that we experience of fatigue, tiredness, feeling drained, etc.
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So the key thing is the tools and techniques that actually work on the mind and body together at
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the same time.
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For instance, sleep.
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Sleep is incredibly important for the mind, for regeneration,
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for neuronal health, but also very important for the body as well.
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So they're working on both
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aspects.
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And you've mentioned in the past, we thought that actually push, push, push,
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productivity, multitask.
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What happened was we have the kind of inverted U-shaped curve of efficiency.
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So we were pushing ourselves, pushing ourselves, which meant that we became more efficient.
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We were
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working harder, working harder, but we've got to the top of that efficiency curve now where because
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of social media and screens, when we do have off time away from work, we aren't relaxing the mind.
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Instead, we're staring at more screens, more engagement of the nervous system, and then we've
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gone down the efficiency curve.
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And therefore, we want to bring ourselves back up the efficiency
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curve.
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So we're operating at our peak performance without draining our system, which is where
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people are living on the edge of burnout.
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That's what we see time and time again.
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So it's those mind-body techniques.
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And we categorize them in four levels,
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the four key aspects of health, which we put under the acronym MEND.
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M-E-N-D. M is for mind.
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So something every day, what are we doing specifically for the mind?
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For us, that would be some kind of nervous system regulation, whether it's breathing, meditation, yoga, something Tai Chi, something that deliberately and directly calms our nervous system.
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E is for exercise.
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We all know exercise is good for us.
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N is for nutrition.
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But of course, that's often the priority that people give that if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling under-efficient, then therefore my diet needs to change.
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But the fourth one is deep sleep.
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So mind, exercise, nutrition, deep sleep.
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Those four categories we need to tend to far more than previous generations have had to because of the way that we're living in the modern world.
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That's an interesting way to put it.
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So it's like really as we advance into next generations, what has to increase is not necessarily productivity, but is recovery.
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Exactly right.
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It's the fact that we're burning out a system too much.
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We're not giving time for rest.
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So as an example, in the 90s, if you were at work and then you went out for lunch, you know, for your lunch hour,
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probably in those days you probably had a lunch hour people don't have take their lunch hours
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these days but when you went out for that lunch hour you didn't have necessarily a phone or a
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screen you went out you reflected on your day you reflected on your emotions how you're feeling
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you went and got a sandwich you maybe sat somewhere chatted to people so there was a
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calming of the nervous system there was a co-regulation with your fellow workers there
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was probably getting out of the office in some shape or form i mean not not for everybody but
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for most people.
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And those were ways in which your nervous system actually got opportunity to recover.
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Whereas now we're not doing that.
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That's the key issue.
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And therefore the system is far more prone
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to be burnt out and our productivity is going down.
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Because as you say, we're not giving time
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for the system to recover.
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What's interesting to me though, is it in a sense, I feel like you're
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talking about the space in between.
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So it's the things that we're doing while we're eating.
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It's
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the things we're doing right before sleep or even in sleep because it's too light, you know, in the
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room or something like that, that there's, there's a quality that happens within the recovery that
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if that's not being met, then your system probably feels like it's still on or, or being attacked,
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right?
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Yes.
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And I would split this into two things, behavioral changes and internal state
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changes.
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So we can be very clear as to what these two things are that can improve our health.
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So behavioral changes, very simple.
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We want to make sure that we're going into the deep relaxation state every day.
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So that genuinely for most people will be 10 to 20 minutes of an active activity,
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like breath work, like meditation, subtle yoga,
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something that is taking them into the relaxation state.
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Behaviorally with nutrition, making sure we're cutting out sugar, the alcohol,
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the kind of things that we know are going to stimulate our nervous system.
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We could spend ages talking about that.
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Sleep, having deeper sleep.
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and of course exercise engaging in more physical exercise but as you say someone might be doing a
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lot of those things really great but they still find that they're fatigued exhausted overwhelmed
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and that comes down to a second thing that we're seeing in society which is our internal emotional
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state and let me share some ideas as to why that's getting worse i believe in the last 10 to 15 years
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when we got social media onto our screens something shifted in the collective consciousness
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of humanity, which was one of the key aspects, and they see this in animal studies, one of the
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key aspects of our stress levels is how much we compare to other people in the tribe.
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So they've
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seen this in monkey studies, for instance, that the stress levels of people in the tribe relate to
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their status in the pecking order.
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Because if you're at low status in society, in those animal
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societies, you're more prone to threats, or you're more prone to be abandoned by the tribe.
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So in a
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similar way, what changed in the early 2010s was that suddenly social media became available on
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our phones and there was a siege mentality where suddenly we weren't off.
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We weren't in the off
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position anymore because 24 hours a day, our profiles on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, whatever,
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were now under the gaze and the spotlight of judgment from others.
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How many likes am I going
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to get?
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Do people like the content that I've produced?
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What do people think of that last
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photo that I posted.
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Oh gosh, Mary had an amazing weekend away with her husband.
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My life doesn't
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look as good as that.
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So suddenly we went from comparing ourselves to people that we knew around
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us in our tribe to suddenly the richest, the highest status, the most beautiful people around
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the world.
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And we started comparing our internal reel, our worst hits reel of how we feel inside
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compared to everyone else's best hits.
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And that gap determines the level of stress
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of our nervous system.
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It's the gap between the standards
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that we create for ourselves
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or the comparison to others
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versus the ability to meet those standards.
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And the gap between those two things
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increases our levels of stress.
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So what change in the human psyche was in,
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it happened about 2012, 2013, 2014,
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we suddenly went to a stage of constantly being on,
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constantly comparing ourselves to others unconsciously without realizing it and never
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being off and when we look at the charts we notice that anxiety and depression from about 2012 onward
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2013 suddenly started going up on average across the whole population and especially amongst
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younger people at that time who were spending longer on screens so the internal state shift
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that needs to change here is we are all wired for aspiration for the glass being half empty
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for us feeling like there's more that we could be doing in life.
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That's a kind of hardwired into us.
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And that is where technology meets psychology.
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That's where the issue is happening and they're butting up against each other.
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And the way to offset that is, how can we internally as human beings
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begin to let go of that comparison?
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How can we begin to feel more contented with who we are?
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how can we begin to live more from a place of gratitude what makes you say that people at least
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how i heard you say that people are wired towards aspiration what supports that thought because
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that's something that's the first time i've ever heard that that as humans we are hardwired towards
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aspiration so it's what made those first cavemen get out of the cave and explore new territories
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What made them build boats and move to different shores, to move to different countries?
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Ultimately, hardwired within the human experience is this idea that the glass is half empty.
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And that comes from the way the brain is wired, but also the amygdala, this kind of fear center of the brain.
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What the brain says is, in order to ensure survival, we always need to look at the downsides of the experience.
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right so i'll give an example if someone gives you 99 compliments james but one person
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criticizes you what does your brain go to immediately oh the criticism yeah the criticism
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now why is that because the brain is hardwired to say if we're going to survive we need to not
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be so concerned about how great things are we need to keep aspiring to things that ensure survival
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so we need to make sure there's more food that's available to us we need to make sure more there's
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more territory available to us and that is why it doesn't matter how rich someone gets they can
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still feel discontented like what you know where is the point at which we become contented is it
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a million dollars is it five million dollars is it ten million dollars you are someone who's got
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ten million dollars in the bank they'll feel even more secure than insecure than someone who's got
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a million dollars in the bank right because now they're worried am i optimizing my investments
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What happens if I lose my money?
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So the brain is hardwired for survival, which means looking at the downside of situations
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and making sure they can be offset, offset the dangers, increase the chance of survival.
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And therefore, when that psychology meets technology, technology now helps us look at
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the downsides every moment.
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And what is that downside?
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We aren't performing as well as the other people in the tribe.
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So before, when we lived in these small tribal communities, maybe a few hundred people, a hundred people, our pecking order was based upon how well we were doing against someone else in the tribe.
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How many animals do we have?
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And that would determine how likely we were to survive because we brought to the tribe our abilities and our wealth.
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Suddenly magnify that to the entirety of human existence, 8 billion people on this planet that we now compare ourselves to.
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It's a recipe for anxiety, depression, dissatisfaction, discontent, and therefore feeling constantly overwhelmed because we're never feeling good enough.
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What about the kind of mindset we put on top of the hardwired?
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So the story we tell, right, that we're not good enough or imposter syndrome is even the mindset hardwired or is that more societal kind of like you learn through the society or generation you're a part of?
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So when I say hardwired, that can sound nihilistic, like, oh, there's nothing we can do.
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What I really mean is that the core propensity is to feel dissatisfied and want more.
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But that doesn't mean we can't offset that propensity, that hardwired propensity.
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just like we may have you know the ancient caveman times when someone had an argument we would
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probably felt like hitting them or killing them or whatever whereas now we're in a developed society
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a civilized society we wouldn't go out and just act on those core impulses so what we're saying
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the core impulse is i'm dissatisfied there's more i should be doing but that doesn't mean that we
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act on it we can offset it through the prefrontal cortex the rational thinking mind we can calm down
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And that's where brain retraining comes in, this idea that when we have an unconscious pattern, which is repetitive and keeps coming up, keep bombarding the prefrontal cortex and the conscious rational mind, we're able to observe it, not get carried away with it and send an opposite signal down to the emotional systems, down to the limbic part of the brain.
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and those types of signals and we work with this with our clients as well in many different
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settings the most powerful is reminding ourselves of what we do have the glass half full rather than
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half empty which is the idea of gratitude we always say to every client every day with your
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partner or your children or your friend three things that you're grateful for genuinely feeling
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that sense of gratitude and then breakfast lunch and dinner are three opportunities for us to
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practice gratitude.
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So normally when we think of a food prayer, we think, thank you for the food
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that we have.
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But in addition to that, just feeling a sense of gratitude for your life and what you do
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have.
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And when we practice that three times a day, that already is pre-training the brain to get out
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of discontent and more towards a sense of gratitude.
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So that's one key principle is regularly
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practicing daily gratitude.
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And studies have shown that that's probably the quickest and easiest
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way to feel happier and calm your nervous systems, that internal state shift.
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Then the second state shift is to recognize those unconscious patterns of,
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I'm not good enough.
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I need to achieve more.
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People don't think I'm that amazing or brilliant.
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I need to do more.
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Recognizing those patterns, taking a deep breath in,
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and then saying what positive self-talk can help me feel better.
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And some examples of that would be
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I'm good enough just the way I am.
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There's nothing I need to prove to myself or anybody else.
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I am contented with who I am.
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And your brain won't believe it the first time, the second time,
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the third time, the fourth time, because it's, as we say, wired for that propensity to be
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dissatisfied.
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But through regular practice, this becomes our new state of being.
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A cheerful
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gratitude for what we have in life.
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And that is a buffer against stress because when we live from
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that space, then the ups and downs of life, you didn't get what you wanted, someone else is doing
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better.
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They fall off you because they are no longer pressing your buttons because you've decided
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to let go of those buttons within you.
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And I'm not saying that's an overnight process,
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but that is regular practice of gratitude,
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contentment, and feeling good about who you are.
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I have also come independently to that conclusion
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of how crucial those three points are.
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I'd love you to share though,
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because you didn't just come to this through academics.
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You have had a personal journey with your own health
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that led you on this path
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towards really dedicating your life
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to supporting people through chronic illness and achieving their potential.
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Do you mind sharing
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your personal story with your health?
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Yes.
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So my journey started in the mid to late 90s.
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So I was
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studying as an undergrad at Cambridge, burning the candle at both ends, so partying, but also
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working academically.
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And once again, the principles we've talked about, comparison.
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I had a lot of insecurity back then.
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So I was comparing myself against my peers in terms of
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academics, but also social skills, believe it or not, not feeling good enough.
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Once again,
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feeling overwhelmed with life.
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And I got a virus.
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I didn't think much of the virus, but
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I got worse and worse and worse health-wise to the point to which I couldn't read the words on a page.
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I felt exhausted and tired all the time.
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I sometimes couldn't even get out of bed.
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Yeah.
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And I describe it like your worst day of flu times five, literally zero, zero, zero energy.
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I made a contract with the universe.
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I said, if I can just get myself 30% well, 50% well,
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I will dedicate the rest of my life to helping others with these conditions,
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these chronic health conditions.
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Because in those days, they were a mystery.
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Finally, I got diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, sometimes known as ME.
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And the doctors
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told me, we don't know what you have.
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We don't know how to treat it.
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We have no explanation for
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it.
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You might have it for the rest of your life.
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Goodbye.
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And you can imagine for a young man,
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that's like a death sentence almost.
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In my worst moments, I was almost suicidal thinking,
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what's the point of living when I literally can't do anything?
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And there's one poignant moment,
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James, when I was in a bookstore in Cambridge.
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In those days, we had to use books to research
21:19
things.
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And there was the neurology section and there was one book jutting off the shelf.
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and it was called The Emotional Life of the Brain by Professor Joseph Ledoux.
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And I just happened, it just called to me.
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I can't explain it.
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And I read that book and I was like, wow,
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this actually could explain why I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling.
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And in an ad hoc way, I retrained my brain using the principles of neuroplasticity,
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just guessing what I needed to do.
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I got 100% well within six months.
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I then opened a clinic to treat others.
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And then we became the GUPTA program,
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the first kind of neuroplasticity program in this area.
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And since then, we've now got an app,
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and we've published seven clinical trials on our treatment for various chronic conditions.
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So it's
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been a 30-year journey to get to this moment right now.
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Where does faith and where does
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kind of believing in something bigger than yourself play into this,
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particularly someone who's coming out from as much of a scientific basis as they can?
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it's an important though not absolute necessary part of healing now when they've done studies in
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the u.s and various countries there may be people who are atheist agnostics but 90 percent of people
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believe in something beyond the scientific realm in a higher being a higher power whatever they
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want to refer to it so this is something which is inherent in our human nature and if you go back
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centuries every tribe every civilization has always had this belief in something bigger and
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higher now we believe that it is important part of healing and the reason it's important is because
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if we feel like we are this lonely soul this lonely human being on this rock traveling in
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the infinite emptiness of space, existentially, that can feel quite threatening.
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That can feel
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very lonely or isolating or not a sense of purpose or expansion in life.
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And what we talk about is
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this idea of actually a representation of love.
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Because as human beings, the one collective thing
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we can agree on is there's something very magical and powerful about the principle of love.
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When
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people have had backgrounds of trauma, which we could say trauma with a small T, trauma with a big
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T, everyone has had something that's happened, whether it's abuse or trauma, or it's been
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bullying, or it's been other things.
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That trauma can then stay in our nervous system and make us
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feel anxious, depressed, vulnerable, and weak.
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And having a belief in something beyond ourselves
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means that there's a sense of there is something that connects us all as human beings.
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There is
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this idea of love, I'm part of that field of existence, that field of love, and I can surrender
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to that.
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The example being, how does a child feel when his or her mother is around or father is
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around?
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Even though something bad may happen, they have that feeling, ah, I can surrender and let go
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because my mother or father is here to take care of me and make sure that I'm okay.
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And when we're
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adults, that same feeling is incredibly useful to help us cope with the ups and downs of life,
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the anxiety and depression, which is why we know people who have a spiritual or religious faith
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seem to do better emotionally than people who don't.
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But that doesn't mean we create
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something artificial.
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It means that we simply experience this idea of this collective
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consciousness, the idea of love moves the world, as many poets and singers have all told us,
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that actually there is something very powerful about this aspect of humanity.
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And when we
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surrender to that, when we let go and say, I'm being taken care of by love, I am loved.
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It's like saying, the sun is always shining.
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Do I choose to open the curtains and experience it,
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or do I choose to shut myself off?
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And that's why we can have two people in exactly the situation,
25:29
And they see this in twin studies.
25:31
You have two twins who have the same exact genetic makeup.
25:35
So you can't even say there's any nature that's different, but they may go off in different lives and they can have very different experiences.
25:43
One can go off into depression and anxiety and whatever, and the other person doesn't.
25:49
there it's all about the frame, the frame of reference, the way that we are approaching life.
25:54
And it's of course the challenges that we face, but it's also how we respond to those challenges
25:59
and having this resilience in our nervous system.
26:02
Part of that comes from the surrender to a higher
26:04
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26:05
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26:56
Do you think that love for oneself has to come before one can feel loved?
27:03
Or is it just get love wherever you can, whether it's from someone else or just from yourself?
27:09
I would go a step further.
27:10
I'd say all love is self-love.
27:13
Now, that's a controversial thing to potentially say.
27:16
But let's say you are in a relationship and you don't feel a sense of love for yourself.
27:23
What do we then do?
27:24
We have a need.
27:25
It's a core human need to feel love, to feel loved.
27:29
So therefore, we look for it outside of ourselves.
27:33
And initially, the saviour comes, a new partner comes and they say, wow, I love you.
27:38
You're amazing.
27:39
You're brilliant.
27:40
Right.
27:41
And suddenly we're on cloud nine.
27:43
We're feeling loved.
27:45
But did that person inject you with love?
27:48
Did they inject you with oxytocin?
27:50
Did they suddenly change your chemical makeup externally?
27:54
No.
27:54
they said that they loved you which gave you permission to love yourself
28:03
they gave you permission to love yourself that's what actually happened they made you they gave
28:08
you permission to feel that you are a good person let going of your shame and your guilt and feeling
28:15
you're a bad person they gave you permission to say i'm a good person i'm worthy of love and
28:20
attention because this person is showing it to me.
28:23
And therefore we're filled full of self-love
28:25
in that moment.
28:26
But it becomes temporary because the moment that we then question the other person's
28:31
love, I think, do they really love me?
28:33
I don't know.
28:33
The way they acted last week, that didn't
28:35
make me feel loved.
28:36
Suddenly our love is dependent on the other person.
28:39
And when it is withdrawn,
28:41
the pain is all the harder because we hadn't done the work of actually becoming self-reliant
28:47
on love, love for ourselves, appreciation for ourselves so that we don't expect it.
28:53
And I love this quote from Anthony Robbins.
28:56
I have all the love for myself inside.
28:59
Anything else is a bonus.
29:02
So now we let go of the reliance on the outside world to make us feel
29:06
approved of through our achievements or love through relationships, which is the main two
29:09
ways we try to get love.
29:11
We have it all inside.
29:14
And because we choose to love ourselves, and that
29:16
is brain retraining in action because if we don't feel loved that is the work that is the self
29:22
coaching that is the reminders to tell us that we are loved and continues to remind ourselves of
29:27
that and we often work with in a child work or parts work where the adult you that has all these
29:34
resources to give love heals the childlike parts within us like james don't we find it amazing
29:41
when someone comes into our life who's got challenges we can be such an incredible coach
29:46
to them, such an incredible force towards them.
29:49
And we think, wow, where does amazing wisdom come
29:51
from?
29:52
And we have it all within us because we are biologically wired to give that love and care to
29:57
our children.
29:58
But the moment it comes to ourselves, we're the harshest critic.
30:01
We put ourselves down.
30:02
We don't think we're worthy because these are just patterns from our childhood and our teenage
30:06
years and our past.
30:07
They're just old remnant patterns that are no longer relevant and no
30:11
longer serve us.
30:12
And therefore, the practice of getting into what we call the wise loving self,
30:17
and then healing these little parts of us, the overachiever who wants love through achievement,
30:22
the approval seeker that's looking for love from outside.
30:25
We say, there, there,
30:27
you are loved just the way you are.
30:28
And that practice over time is one of the most powerful
30:32
practices that we can have to keep tuning into these unresolved parts within us and telling
30:37
them that they are loved and cared for.
30:39
And that is the deepest healing.
30:42
How does someone know
30:45
what to work on?
30:46
Because a lot of times we are hindered by our own awareness.
30:52
This to me is the core and key principle of all personal development.
30:57
All personal development
30:58
starts at this point, which is your ability to step out of your patterns and go into the
31:04
witness position.
31:05
So the analogy we use is, imagine a bucket of water.
31:09
Now in that bucket
31:09
of water is a stick, which is the you, the I.
31:14
And that bucket of water is swirling, swirling,
31:16
swirling, swirling.
31:18
Now, if you're the stick in that bucket of water, you can't have a reference
31:23
point of what is normal or what you need to work on because you're already swirling in that bucket
31:28
of water.
31:29
The only way is the stick needs to come out of the bucket of water and observe the swirling
31:34
water from the observer witness position and all spiritual traditions religious traditions personal
31:39
development comes down to that core principle don't be involved in your patterns take a step back
31:46
and observe those patterns and say ah i observe my mind is doing this ah there is anger not i am
31:55
angry i'm a bad person there is anger there is insecurity and the ability to step out not repress
32:03
or disassociate, but disidentify.
32:07
This keyword, disidentify from these core patterns.
32:10
And of
32:11
course, the next question is, how do we do that?
32:12
What's the practical way of doing that?
32:14
We intuitively know the healing that we need.
32:18
The problem is the mind is too busy to realize
32:21
what it is.
32:22
That's where breath work and meditation allow the mind and the nervous system
32:29
to calm down enough that we can see the wood from the trees.
32:34
So as an example, in meditation,
32:38
and people haven't meditated before, this is only something you can experience.
32:42
In meditation, we first of all start our meditation and we're involved in all the
32:46
craziness.
32:47
We can hear all our thoughts and it's busy, busy, busy.
32:50
But step by step,
32:51
we are becoming the witness position in meditation, regularly stepping out and just
32:55
observing what is going on in our minds without getting carried away with it.
32:59
We just observe,
33:00
observe, observe.
33:01
And maybe it takes one or two days of regular meditation, or it takes a week,
33:06
or it takes a month, or it takes in a day.
33:08
We become more the witness.
33:10
And as we calm down
33:11
the nervous system, guess what?
33:13
We open ourselves up to intuition.
33:16
Intuition.
33:16
You know, people say,
33:17
oh, I want to follow my feelings.
33:20
What feelings?
33:21
You're bombarded with fear and anxiety and shame.
33:24
those aren't feelings to navigate your life from.
33:27
What they're really saying is, I feel that there's
33:29
something intuitive within me that gives me that intuitive hit and helps me navigate my life.
33:35
That intuition is accessed through stillness, not through busyness.
33:39
So when we breathe and when we
33:41
meditate, gradually as the mind calms down, at the end of our meditation or whatever relaxation
33:47
works for you, if sitting in a jacuzzi or a sauna is what helps you calm your nervous system,
33:51
let that be your meditation so i'm not saying everyone has to meditate otherwise it's not going
33:55
to work you find the thing that works for you for some people it's a run you know or physical
34:00
exercise they do cardio and they suddenly notice the parasympathetic nervous system kicking in and
34:04
they feel that stillness in that moment just close your eyes and observe and ask yourself
34:11
a very simple question what's really bothering me right now very powerful question what's
34:21
really bothering me?
34:22
Because the stuff that's up here that's swilling around often isn't actually
34:26
what's really bothering me.
34:28
So as an example, we can be at work and we're feeling that the boss
34:31
isn't appreciating the work that we've been doing, or we feel that we're not achieving the things
34:38
that we thought we could achieve in our workplace.
34:40
And that's what's bothering us.
34:41
We're just not
34:41
feeling like we're performing, but you take a step back and underneath you say, what's really
34:45
bothering me.
34:47
What's really bothering me might be, I've never felt that I've achieved enough.
34:51
So
34:52
regardless of how much I achieve in this role, I'm never going to feel enough.
34:56
So what I need
34:56
to work on is my sense of I'm not good enough versus this job.
35:01
Or it could be, this isn't the
35:03
authentic job that I want.
35:05
I'm dissatisfied, not because I'm not performing, but because
35:08
this isn't me.
35:09
This is not my authentic life.
35:11
I need to look at another career option.
35:14
And so
35:15
the intuition within us helps has got all the answers we're just not tuning into it because
35:21
we don't know how to still the mind yeah i it is fascinating because you really have to break
35:25
patterns to still the mind or to just be kind of in more empty space you know or that kind of white
35:34
noise that we talk about like i will have my lunch time and it's usually my one moment to kind of not
35:41
be working, right?
35:43
Or fathering or husbanding, like where I'm just in my own space for a moment.
35:48
And what I'll then do is I'll put on like a, you know, a TV show.
35:53
And so I'm still filling myself
35:55
because I've learned, oh, well, that's how I decompress.
35:58
That's the excuse I used to give.
35:59
But what I've tried to do for the last six months is actually not do anything.
36:06
Just eat.
36:07
Just be in silence.
36:08
I'll extend this to even when I go to the gym, instead of listening to
36:11
music in my ears, I don't use any device.
36:15
I'm just with my thoughts.
36:17
You've hit on a really
36:18
crucial point, which adds to why anxiety and depression is going up since 2012, 2013,
36:24
which is that when we have emotions, emotions, when they come up, which are our emotional
36:30
reaction to people in situations, fear, anxiety, anger, when they come up, they're supposed to be
36:36
processed and resolved.
36:38
But what are we normally doing now?
36:40
I have an uncomfortable emotion,
36:42
reach for a screen, reach for Netflix, reach for our phones, reach for Instagram,
36:46
because that can give me my short dopamine hit, which can help me relieve and offset the difficult
36:50
emotion.
36:51
But what you are describing there, James, is actually, I recognize that there is this
36:55
noise, that these are these emotions.
36:57
So let me build in white space into my day for me to observe
37:02
of what's going on internally in terms of my thoughts and my emotions and is that and in
37:08
previous generations that would be normal and natural we would talk to people about it we would
37:12
express these things but now we are repressing these emotions that's the first step is building
37:19
white space to reflect on them and i would encourage us to go a second step one of the most
37:24
underutilized therapeutic interventions that we can all do for free every day is journaling
37:32
journaling is so important because as you described there james the first perspective is
37:38
let me build white space to observe and at least become aware of what's going on what patterns are
37:43
there but the next step which is to retrain the brain is to process those emotions when we're the
37:50
stick in the busy bucket of water it's difficult to process but when we write them down and we
37:56
might use a paper journal or now in the modern world we can use notes so in our phones we have
38:02
notes right so you can create a new notepad in your phone you can lock it so that nobody else
38:08
accesses it and let it out what's bothering you express it and there's something so powerful
38:16
about the expression expression is half the processing you want to express it in there
38:21
You know, I'm feeling really rubbish today because, you know, I had an argument with my partner and she made me feel like this.
38:28
But I understand why that happened and what I need to do to overcome that.
38:31
And just write it down, get it out, get it out.
38:34
And that process will enable you to, once again, become the witness.
38:39
Because in your mind, it's all swilling around.
38:40
But writing it down, you can see it and go, ah, that's what's bothering me.
38:44
And as you do this idea of expression without editing it, without any caveats, it's like a cathartic process of letting out what you have experienced today.
38:57
And you'll be amazed at how then your intuition magically gives you the answers.
39:02
We can't have our internally generated solutions if we haven't identified what the problem is.
39:08
The problems are all running around.
39:09
They're running around.
39:10
And there's several steps to this process, because if we do it too fast, we'll also repress our emotions.
39:14
The first is awareness, right?
39:16
So we have to have awareness of what is the emotion.
39:19
What am I experiencing right now?
39:20
I'm experiencing fear right now.
39:22
Where am I experiencing it
39:23
physically?
39:24
I'm experiencing it in my chest.
39:25
Okay.
39:26
We've identified what the emotion is.
39:28
Then number two, it's validation.
39:30
If we say to ourselves, gosh, I'm so weak for experiencing
39:33
fear.
39:34
What's wrong with me?
39:35
You know, I've been meditating for 10 years and I still have fear.
39:38
That is in a criticism.
39:39
So we want to validate ourselves to say, it's okay to have an emotion.
39:44
So awareness of it, where is it physically in our body, observe it and validate.
39:48
It's okay
39:49
to have that emotion.
39:50
I'm still a good person despite me thinking there's something wrong
39:53
with these emotions.
39:54
Emotions are very normal, very good.
39:56
Third step, what is the pattern?
40:00
I'm upset because X, Y, Z happened.
40:02
There is anger because of such and such, right?
40:06
So we are
40:06
identifying what the challenge is or what we've experienced.
40:09
And now that is a process of
40:11
processing the emotion?
40:12
Why am I experiencing this?
40:14
What is the message that this emotion has?
40:16
Every emotion is a message to us about the world around us.
40:21
And it's telling us about our thoughts,
40:22
our beliefs, our values.
40:24
The next step is, then how do I shift perspective on this?
40:29
What's my new perspective?
40:30
Or how can I process this?
40:32
That's an example.
40:33
We've had a horrible
40:33
argument with someone and someone's been very insulting to us.
40:37
Step one, awareness of the
40:39
emotion.
40:39
I'm feeling real anger at this person, but also fear, feeling like I'm not good enough.
40:44
Validate.
40:45
It's okay to experience this.
40:47
You're human.
40:48
I love you.
40:49
It's okay.
40:49
I love you for
40:50
having these emotions.
40:51
It's okay.
40:52
Step three, then we are looking at the reasons.
40:56
Why did that
40:56
happen?
40:57
Well, actually, they really push one of my buttons there because I can be sensitive to
41:01
criticism and they really made me feel low about myself.
41:04
And the anger is coming out because I'm
41:06
angry at them for making me feel like that and making me feel low about myself.
41:11
Okay, fourth step,
41:12
new perspective.
41:13
What's my new perspective on the situation?
41:16
Okay, my new perspective here,
41:18
and we can have different perspectives.
41:19
It might be, look, they're just having a bad day.
41:22
Yeah,
41:22
they've got their own stresses and strains and they let it out on you.
41:26
Or it could be,
41:27
that's their personality.
41:29
And I just simply need to accept that that's the way they are.
41:32
or it could be actually this situation is making me more aware of my inner sensitivity to criticism
41:39
i think the evolutionary inheritance so going back to where you started with we have inherited
41:45
all this knowledge all this ancestral knowledge and then in many ways what we've been discussing
41:50
is clearing the noise so that you can access it where i'm going in my head is okay if you start
41:59
to feel and experience a stimulus over and over.
42:04
So let's say you're doing, you're following what
42:07
your suggestions, you're doing the work to identify, to release, but you keep putting yourself in a
42:14
situation where it continually gets triggered.
42:17
Is that potentially really a sign?
42:20
And let's just
42:20
even focus on something simple like social media.
42:23
If you notice you continually have to do this work
42:27
every time you access social media.
42:29
Is that a sign to just say, no more social media?
42:32
Like,
42:33
do you believe that at one point we just have to be honest with ourselves and acknowledge,
42:39
hey, this isn't working, let's cut it out.
42:41
So every good habit that we need involves two key
42:44
steps is the internal state and the behavior, as we talked about earlier.
42:50
So to make good habits,
42:52
as we know from the work of James Clear and Atomic Habits and all these great people,
42:58
it's not only about your internal state shift, because then you're relying on the internal
43:01
motivation.
43:02
It's the practical steps that you put in place to make it easier to engage in good
43:06
habits.
43:07
The person who wants to lose weight or stop snacking, they want to make sure that when
43:11
they go shopping, they're not buying those snacks.
43:12
So they're not in the home so that when they've
43:14
got a weak moment, they're not going for the snack drawer and eating unhealthily.
43:18
So in a similar
43:19
way, we focus on these internal state shifts, but nobody is saying that we need to suffer
43:25
endlessly and put ourselves in situations which are damaging or lowering our self-esteem.
43:31
Nobody
43:32
is saying that we need to do that, right?
43:35
So therefore, there are situations where we just
43:37
need to cut back on it or cut it out.
43:40
So you've given the example of a phone.
43:42
Phones are the most
43:43
addictive substance right now on the planet.
43:44
It's the biggest addiction on the planet.
43:46
So yes, there
43:47
will be times where we just need to say, right, you know what I'm going to do?
43:49
I'm going to switch
43:50
off my phone for the next few hours, or I'm going to spend some time with the family.
43:54
I'm just going
43:55
to switch it off so I can't be interrupted at all.
43:58
I'm going to put it in a different room.
43:59
It is about the internal state shifts combined with good habits.
44:04
If we are in the presence of
44:05
someone that regularly makes us feel low and bad about ourselves, no one is saying that we need to
44:10
suffer that every day.
44:11
We then remove ourselves from those energy systems that are impacting us.
44:16
Of course, absolutely.
44:18
And James, I want to pick up on something you mentioned earlier about this idea of ancestral knowledge that is being passed on.
44:24
Traditionally, we thought of DNA as passing on these adaptations at a physiological level.
44:29
But as you say, there is this ancestral knowledge that is being passed on.
44:33
We know monkeys who use tools in a particular area, that knowledge then gets passed on to other tribes without us even knowing it.
44:40
We see this.
44:42
so what it's saying is that actually there is this field of knowledge so there's a hypothesis
44:47
that there is a field of knowledge and we can even see this from a quantum mechanics perspective that
44:52
everything that has ever happened that is ever going to happen all the knowledge all the creation
44:57
already exists we are simply tuning in and tapping into that field yeah and actually
45:04
einstein talked about this when he came up with this incredible theories that
45:09
someone sitting at home, you know, there were no computers in those days, you know,
45:13
comes up with this incredible, powerful knowledge.
45:15
He said, I don't know why I know what I know,
45:17
but I know it.
45:18
He was tapping into this field of intuition, this field of knowledge.
45:22
And that field is accessed when we calm the mind and we still the mind.
45:27
And great people who've
45:28
been creative in writing and music, they've always said, if I've got anxiety about something I need
45:33
to achieve.
45:34
I get writer's block or I can't sing or I can't perform.
45:38
And in a similar way, it's when
45:39
we are calm and centered, we can access that field of knowledge for creativity and expansion.
45:45
It's so important.
45:46
I mean, the amount of people I'm talking to these days who speak about fatigue
45:52
and just overwhelm and just feeling flattened, whether it's people who have shared they have
45:59
long COVID or people that have just been going, going, going so hard.
46:05
That either way, it's the toll that this modern life is taking on our very precious
46:11
human bodies that people are responding to.
46:13
So I think this has been a really great reminder of not only our own strengths and powers within,
46:18
you know, you mentioned this early on, that we have the power to change.
46:24
We aren't just a leaf, you know, flying in the wind that we can remove ourselves from the swirling water and observe our current state and then make choices accordingly, I think is very empowering.
46:37
I have a final question that I always ask people.
46:41
If you could wave a magic wand, bring back one ancestral practice, what would it be and why?
46:48
This is such a beautiful question and it's going to be all-encompassing, so I'm cheating a little in terms of this one thing.
46:54
But what did all tribes do before the modern era?
46:59
When the sun went down, they would eat together and then they would light a campfire and they would sing, dance and tell stories around the campfire.
47:12
It was a core part of ourselves as human beings, a human existence.
47:16
and what is the modern campfire of our civilization is now the television so now what we do as human
47:21
beings in the evenings the lights go down we have dinner sometimes watching television and then we
47:26
gather around looking at all this violence and negativity that's now fed to us to try and
47:32
stimulate our nervous system more and more and more and that's become the campfire and we wonder
47:36
why everyone's overwhelmed and anxious because even those things that consumption of media it's
47:41
not just what we put in our mouth it's what we put in our brain is re-stimulating our nervous system
47:46
So if there's one practice I would love to bring back, it's this idea, and I wonder how we can do it.
47:51
But when the evening comes, if we as human beings can just spend one hour singing, dancing, telling stories, sharing, even if it's playing games together, those things help us relax our nervous system, create a sense of community with the people in our household,
48:13
and take us away from the negativity and the violence that is fed to us on a continual basis.
48:20
So the campfire, the campfire experience is, I think, one ancestral habit that I'd love to bring back.
48:27
I love the comparison to the television of how that's become, in a sense, a modern campfire,
48:34
but it's not at all giving the same stimulus or decompression that the true campfire or the true hearth used to provide.
48:42
Ashok, you have a free program to offer everyone who's been listening.
48:46
Could you share that?
48:47
Yeah, so we have two main projects that we'd love to share with everyone.
48:51
The first is the Gupta Programme, and that's an app and a programme for people with chronic illnesses, so chronic fatigue syndrome, long COVID, fibromyalgia, mould illness, these mysterious inflammatory illnesses that doctors find it hard to treat.
49:04
So that's one program.
49:06
And people can join our free trial there and experience lots of videos and audios.
49:10
And that website is guptaprogram.com.
49:13
So guptaprogram.com.
49:16
And we'd encourage people if they've got a chronic condition, you know, burnout, severe anxiety, that's the place to go.
49:22
And we have a second program, which is maybe you don't have a chronic condition, but you're experiencing exactly what you've described, James,
49:29
which is some fatigue, continue feeling overwhelmed, not feeling satisfied in life,
49:36
some levels of burnout certain days.
49:38
Then we have another project, which is called Just 10.
49:42
And this is the birth of the micro wellness industry, which is that we're so busy these days.
49:48
You know, if someone says, right, go to the gym for an hour, go for a yoga class for half an hour,
49:51
we often don't have the time, the energy.
49:53
We come back from work, we're exhausted,
49:56
We barely managed to make a meal.
49:58
And the idea of wellness just isn't on the radar.
50:01
But imagine if there's a place that you could come where everything is split into 10 minute
50:07
micro wellness experiences live on Zoom, 24 hours a day.
50:13
So in just 10, you come on and on the hour, every hour is 10 minutes of exercise that
50:18
you do on Zoom with others.
50:20
And it's different every day.
50:21
One day will be yoga.
50:22
One day will be cardio.
50:23
One day will be HIIT.
50:24
but it's happening every hour and then 10 past the hour is 10 minutes of breath work so if you
50:29
feel like you need some breathing just to calm down the mind breathing is the quickest and easiest
50:33
way to regulate your nervous system so there's 10 minutes of breath work fresh every day followed
50:37
by 10 minutes of meditation and you can meditate for longer if you want and then we also do 10
50:43
minutes of journaling and what we encourage people to do is pick one thing just do one thing a day
50:49
for that self-care, that self-love on the app.
50:52
And it's completely free.
50:53
All those live events
50:54
are free.
50:55
And as you do one event and as you experience it, then there might be other things
50:58
that you want to experience.
51:00
But for me, daily exercise or a few times a day, a few times a week
51:05
exercise, breath work, meditation, journaling.
51:09
These are quick, easy, simple ways for 10 minutes
51:12
that we can regulate our nervous system and we're going to feel happier.
51:15
We're going to feel
51:16
healthier.
51:17
And these are such crucial things in the modern world to experience.
51:21
And many people
51:21
say, well, I don't have the time for that, right?
51:24
You know, they did a study in 2015.
51:27
This was done
51:27
by Harvard, which should have been front page news across the world.
51:31
It was the best study I've ever
51:32
seen in the 21st century.
51:34
They took three and a half thousand people and monitored their healthcare
51:38
usage over the space of a year.
51:41
So how often do they see a doctor?
51:42
How often do they visit a
51:43
hospital.
51:44
They then taught them some basic resilience skills, but the core thing they did
51:48
was encourage them to do 20 minutes of what they call the relaxation response every day,
51:53
which is essentially deep breath work and meditation, really getting into that relaxation
51:57
response.
51:58
And they then monitored them for another year in terms of how often they saw a doctor or a
52:02
hospital.
52:03
James, believe it or not, in that study, and they had a control group of 20,000 people,
52:07
It was a massive study.
52:09
There was a 43% reduction in usage of healthcare facilities.
52:14
43%.
52:17
And now imagine if that was a drug, that would be the miracle drug of the 21st century.
52:22
There
52:22
would be billions being chucked at it.
52:23
Every single person on the planet would be taking that drug.
52:26
And yet in that study, they saw a 43% drop in healthcare utilization.
52:30
It's a study that
52:31
everyone can read online.
52:32
It's absolutely one of the best studies out there.
52:34
And yet it hardly
52:36
made the news.
52:37
So this shows us that daily breathwork, daily meditation, daily deep relaxation
52:41
of the nervous system can not only help us in productivity and focus, it can reduce stress and
52:47
anxiety, but it can actually make us healthier.
52:51
So that 20 minutes of investment in time every day
52:54
is going to pay itself back fivefold, tenfold in terms of efficiency savings and just feeling
53:00
better.
53:01
That is the magic pill that we all need living.
53:05
Our ancestral selves need in this modern
53:07
world is just that 20 minutes.
53:09
And I love that you shared that and that it's available to everyone.
53:13
There's, there's no cost to it.
53:15
And that's why we made it free because we wanted to give back.
53:18
We know that as soon as you put a paywall, you lose 97% of people.
53:21
So we wanted something that
53:23
everyone on this planet can access 24 hours a day.
53:26
And they don't feel like they're on their own.
53:28
they're doing it in community because ancestrally and this is where it ties in with the great work
53:32
you're doing ancestrally we never sat by ourselves in our bedroom meditating this was all a group
53:38
activity we meditated in group because there's a collective field of intention and people find
53:44
when they meditate in a group the depth of their meditation is much more powerful so in just 10
53:49
and people can download the the app or just 10 on app store or play store you've got a community
53:54
of people who are going to meditate with you every hour, who are there.
53:57
There's people on there right
53:59
now.
53:59
It's a living, breathing community, 24 hours a day.
54:02
So what I'd encourage people to do is just
54:03
download the app, find something that you want to go to and just experience it and know that this
54:08
tool is with you 24 hours a day.
54:10
Thank you so much for your time today.
54:12
And thank you for all
54:14
your gifts.
54:15
And thank you all for participating as well.
54:17
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54:19
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54:22
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54:25
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54:27
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54:31
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54:38
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54:41
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54:43
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54:46
Remember, stay curious and we're all in it together.
54:50
Take care.
54:51
Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral.
54:56
If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one.
55:00
You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com.
55:05
That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K dot com.
55:11
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55:16
Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.