Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / STEP-BRO CHARGED? CRUISE TEEN ANNA KEPNER DEAD AFTER SUSPECT SKIPS DAILY DRUG COCKTAIL

Transcript

STEP-BRO CHARGED? CRUISE TEEN ANNA KEPNER DEAD AFTER SUSPECT SKIPS DAILY DRUG COCKTAIL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: The stepbrother charged, according to reports, after Cruz Girl, a
0:12
Speaker 2: beautiful teen cheerleader Anna Kepner, found dead, her body stuffed
0:20
Speaker 2: under a twin bed covered in life vests on a
0:23
Speaker 2: cruise with her grandparents. She's found dead in her own
0:29
Speaker 2: room after the suspect, the stepbrother, skips his daily drug cocktail.
0:37
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
0:39
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. A beautiful young teen
0:43
Speaker 2: cheerleader found dead on a cruise ship, her body there
0:47
Speaker 2: for hours and hours before anyone even notices she's missing.
0:51
Speaker 1: Where were the parents for Pete's sake?
0:57
Speaker 2: Still so many questions. By tonight, we are learning that
1:02
Speaker 2: the stepbrother has been taken to federal court and according
1:06
Speaker 2: to the dad, Anna Kettner's bio dad, he was charged
1:12
Speaker 2: under federal law. Now this is what Anna Kettner's biological
1:17
Speaker 2: mom says.
1:19
Speaker 3: I got some news today on my daughter's case. They
1:23
Speaker 3: are going to charge her sixteen year old step brother
1:29
Speaker 3: or first degree murder, and there's gonna be some other
1:32
Speaker 3: charges brought, but I'm not sure what they are yet.
1:35
Speaker 3: Until they tell me, I don't know. So that is
1:40
Speaker 3: one of the charges and as soon as I know more,
1:42
Speaker 3: I will let you guys know. Thanks for support.
1:46
Speaker 2: Now, according to her, that is Anna Kuttner's biological mother,
1:51
Speaker 2: and according to Anna Kittner's biological father, who is the
1:57
Speaker 2: stepbrother's stepdad, is very confused.
2:02
Speaker 1: Charges have been lodged. Now what are the charges?
2:08
Speaker 2: Straight out to Greg Moose, joining US veteran criminal defense attorney,
2:12
Speaker 2: joining us out of the Palm Beach, Florida area. He
2:16
Speaker 2: is the author of the Untested on Amazon and he
2:20
Speaker 2: founded Morse Legal at morselegal dot com. Greg Morse I
2:27
Speaker 2: imagined that the confusion that is.
2:29
Speaker 1: Surrounding the charges.
2:34
Speaker 2: Generates from the fact that he is a juvenile and
2:38
Speaker 2: the media cannot get their myths on any of those
2:42
Speaker 2: charges or anything that went down in juvenile court, even federal.
2:47
Speaker 4: Well, that's correct.
2:49
Speaker 5: When someone is charged as a juvenile in federal court
2:51
Speaker 5: or state court, it's confidential. The public does not have
2:55
Speaker 5: access to it through the court system. With regard to this,
3:00
Speaker 5: and I would suggest that we don't even know if
3:03
Speaker 5: there's a grand jury indictment here yet. And I would
3:06
Speaker 5: also suggest if there are charges, it's probably not murder
3:09
Speaker 5: at this point because the Fed government generally charges people
3:14
Speaker 5: fifteen and over as adults for serious violent felonies. So, yes,
3:19
Speaker 5: this stuff is confidential when someone's a juvenile. Once they're
3:22
Speaker 5: charged as an adult, it does not stay confidential and
3:26
Speaker 5: it can be available in the system.
3:28
Speaker 4: What could have happened is the US.
3:30
Speaker 5: Attorney's office talk to family and indicated they might be
3:35
Speaker 5: filing a quote criminal complaint, which precedes an indictment.
3:39
Speaker 4: But the federal government still has to go to a.
3:41
Speaker 5: Grand jury, and even if you're an adult, those proceedings
3:44
Speaker 5: will be sealed until you make your initial appearance in
3:48
Speaker 5: court and then it gets opened up. But if he's
3:50
Speaker 5: charged with something like tampering with evidence or they're going
3:54
Speaker 5: to do that, or something that's not violent but related
3:58
Speaker 5: to the death of this young lady, then it would
4:01
Speaker 5: stay confidential throughout the case except for the lawyers involved.
4:04
Speaker 2: In the Greg Morse, that please, Greg Morse, you just
4:08
Speaker 2: said that the step brother, now almost seventeen, can be
4:13
Speaker 2: tried as an adult, could be charged with tampering with evidence.
4:18
Speaker 1: That's a yes, No Morse, did you just say.
4:20
Speaker 5: That, not as an adult for tampering or what evidence,
4:24
Speaker 5: he would still likely be charged as a juvenile for
4:27
Speaker 5: that if he were charged with murder, there's a good
4:30
Speaker 5: chance he would be charged as an adult, like the
4:32
Speaker 5: FEDS do in most states do when you're over fifteen,
4:35
Speaker 5: or in Florida over thirteen.
4:37
Speaker 2: To Joe Scott Morgan, joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
4:41
Speaker 2: He is the author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon.
4:45
Speaker 2: He is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags
4:48
Speaker 2: with Joseph Scott Morgan, but for our purposes tonight. He
4:51
Speaker 2: is a death investigator who has investigated over believe it
4:54
Speaker 2: or not, ten thousand death scenes of all sorts, be
4:59
Speaker 2: the ex iidental natural causes, suicide unexplained, or in this case, homicide.
5:07
Speaker 2: Did you just hear Greg Morse describe a potential charge
5:12
Speaker 2: against a step brother is.
5:14
Speaker 1: Tampering with evidence? That's a yes?
5:16
Speaker 2: No?
5:16
Speaker 1: Did you hear that?
5:18
Speaker 2: Yes? Okay, Jo Scott? What would that evidence be? That
5:25
Speaker 2: evidence is Anna Kettner's dead body. I don't want to
5:30
Speaker 2: talk about her body as quote evidence.
5:35
Speaker 6: You got that right, And let me explain something because
5:37
Speaker 6: people take offense many times to that. But you have
5:41
Speaker 6: to as a death investigator, you have to think of
5:44
Speaker 6: the decedent as the little hub of the wheel with
5:47
Speaker 6: all the spokes coming off of it, all the other evidence.
5:51
Speaker 6: The body is the central focus of this case. By
5:55
Speaker 6: the fact that she was taken, stuffed under this bed,
6:00
Speaker 6: covered with blankets, and then these life jackets are put
6:05
Speaker 6: on top of her, you're trying to hide evidence at
6:08
Speaker 6: that point in time. That's why they're classifying it like this.
6:11
Speaker 6: We're not talking about scrubbing a scene or removing a
6:14
Speaker 6: weapon or anything like that. We're talking about taking this
6:18
Speaker 6: young girl's body after she has been murdered and stuffed
6:23
Speaker 6: under the bed and hidden from anyone to find her,
6:27
Speaker 6: and all kinds of things happen relative to that. You
6:29
Speaker 6: can compromise evidence. You know, there's a delay in being
6:32
Speaker 6: able to get to the body, bodies decomposed, all these
6:35
Speaker 6: sorts of things, so that in and of itself constitutes
6:38
Speaker 6: tampering it.
6:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just you know, Morse, I know that when
6:44
Speaker 1: all of.
6:44
Speaker 2: Us lawyers start speaking lawyer talk, tampering with evidence is
6:51
Speaker 2: vellanty charge. But the evidence we're talking about here is
6:57
Speaker 2: Anna Katner's body.
6:59
Speaker 1: That's a little based on based.
7:03
Speaker 5: No, what I mean by that is based on the
7:05
Speaker 5: information so far is these people shared a room and
7:08
Speaker 5: then the leap is he must have killed this young girl,
7:13
Speaker 5: his stepsister. That there's a far stretch from just because
7:17
Speaker 5: you were in a room with someone on.
7:18
Speaker 4: A cruise ship where the half brother shared the room too.
7:21
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people on the cruise ship.
7:23
Speaker 5: Doesn't mean because he shared a room with her that
7:26
Speaker 5: he committed the murder of her at all. There's no
7:29
Speaker 5: evidence that it actually was a murder at this point yet,
7:32
Speaker 5: could it be a suicide. There's a host of answered
7:35
Speaker 5: questions with regard to how this girl died, and to
7:39
Speaker 5: just link it to the stepbrother is a stretch at
7:43
Speaker 5: this point. And he could have come in the room
7:46
Speaker 5: and saw his stepsister freaked out.
7:49
Speaker 4: He's a sixteen year old teenager.
7:53
Speaker 5: Didn't know what to do, had nothing to do with
7:55
Speaker 5: her death, and hit the body, or he came in
7:57
Speaker 5: the room and the body was hidden under the bed
8:00
Speaker 5: he noticed it and freaked out, because again he's a teenager,
8:03
Speaker 5: So there's not enough say he committed the murder here. Also,
8:10
Speaker 5: you know, he could have made a statement, and now
8:12
Speaker 5: the Feds are trying to charge him with obstruction just
8:15
Speaker 5: so they can get leverage to keep him on the
8:17
Speaker 5: hook to continue to.
8:19
Speaker 4: Talk and try to find out more information.
8:22
Speaker 5: So there's a host of different things, but there's no
8:25
Speaker 5: evidence to say that he actually killed this girl or
8:28
Speaker 5: nothing that's come out yet that would point to that,
8:30
Speaker 5: other than he happened to be in.
8:31
Speaker 4: The room with her at some point.
8:34
Speaker 2: That's it happened to be in the room with her
8:37
Speaker 2: before I disprove everything you just said, why do you
8:40
Speaker 2: say these words like there they're poison, like they're dirt
8:44
Speaker 2: in your mouth. The Feds didn't just to get leveraged
8:47
Speaker 2: to get him on the hook. Well, so he would,
8:50
Speaker 2: it's what they did. I mean the way he said that,
8:52
Speaker 2: it sounds like a nasty word.
8:55
Speaker 4: Of it. Nothing that's the Fed life.
8:58
Speaker 5: But that it's the federal government's choice on how they
9:01
Speaker 5: want to investigate the job.
9:04
Speaker 1: Do you think, don't you want murder solved?
9:06
Speaker 4: It's their choice.
9:08
Speaker 5: Well, sure people want murder solved, and they generally do
9:11
Speaker 5: get solved.
9:12
Speaker 4: And you know you're on a cruise ship.
9:14
Speaker 5: There's a lot of data points to tell this story,
9:17
Speaker 5: whether it be cameras, whether it be room keys, things
9:20
Speaker 5: that are record data.
9:22
Speaker 4: And movement, so you know the story will be told.
9:25
Speaker 5: But to say the step brother did it simply because
9:29
Speaker 5: he shared a room with the girl is a stretch
9:32
Speaker 5: at this point, and you know, the Feds then probably
9:35
Speaker 5: don't have much to link them to the murder, so
9:38
Speaker 5: they want to, you know, see what they can come
9:39
Speaker 5: up with. So you know, that's what they do. There's
9:42
Speaker 5: nothing wrong with that. That's their prerogative to do it.
9:45
Speaker 5: They try to solve crimes, and it's one of the
9:47
Speaker 5: ways they do it. They hold on to someone they
9:49
Speaker 5: think has more information than they're letting on and if
9:51
Speaker 5: they can put any charge against them.
9:53
Speaker 4: They will.
9:54
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, could you take mister Morse to school and
10:00
Speaker 2: give him a lesson on why Anna Kepner, the teen
10:05
Speaker 2: girl cheerleader, the one scrubbed in sunshine, the one that
10:09
Speaker 2: goes to the Christian Academy, the one that still was
10:13
Speaker 2: wearing braces for Pete's sake, the one that was caught
10:16
Speaker 2: dancing at the celebration party with her grandparents, her last dance.
10:25
Speaker 1: There she is.
10:27
Speaker 2: Look at her, just sweet of sunshine out there with
10:30
Speaker 2: Granny kicking up her little feet. Yeah, she's dead. That's
10:34
Speaker 2: from our friend Nick Cappo. Six nine on TikTok. Could
10:38
Speaker 2: you explain to Mores why it is impossible that this
10:43
Speaker 2: little girl committed suicide based on the autopsy.
10:49
Speaker 6: Well, I can tell you what the board certified forensic
10:52
Speaker 6: pathologist said at the Dade County Miami Dade County Medical
10:55
Speaker 6: Examiner's office. They classified her death as aation, and she
11:01
Speaker 6: sustained blunt force trauma Nancy. And here's the thing they
11:04
Speaker 6: talked about. They talked about relative to her, that her
11:09
Speaker 6: body had sustained what is referred to as trauma related
11:14
Speaker 6: to an arm bar. Take a look. Okay, so the
11:17
Speaker 6: leading edge of the arm right here. What they're saying
11:21
Speaker 6: is that the arm was placed over her throat and
11:27
Speaker 6: pressed down. Okay, there's a reason why cops can't use
11:31
Speaker 6: arm bars and restraint. You know what it is. It
11:33
Speaker 6: asphyxiates people. It can also crush the layernics. So whatever
11:37
Speaker 6: has happened, we don't have a lot more detail. This
11:40
Speaker 6: transfer of energy from someone's body pressing down. Everybody at home,
11:45
Speaker 6: just think about having this area of your throat pressed
11:49
Speaker 6: down on and how hard it would be to breathe.
11:51
Speaker 6: You sustain that pressure over and over and over again,
11:55
Speaker 6: sooner or later, you're going to run out of air.
11:58
Speaker 6: Now they're saying blunt force trauma as well. Many times
12:01
Speaker 6: with these cases, what you see with blunt force trauma,
12:04
Speaker 6: you're seeing somebody attempting to subdue somebody else, literally beating
12:09
Speaker 6: them into submission. Not granted, I don't know who did it,
12:12
Speaker 6: but I know that the people at the EMESE office
12:15
Speaker 6: this is the conclusion they arrived at. And Nancy, if
12:18
Speaker 6: you like that one, I got another one for you.
12:21
Speaker 6: Dig this. If there is this level of contact on
12:25
Speaker 6: the surface of her neck, and you probably know where
12:28
Speaker 6: I'm going here, you're going to have transfer from here
12:32
Speaker 6: to there. I'm just hoping that they have swapped her
12:36
Speaker 6: neck that collected everything in this space, because you can
12:40
Speaker 6: have genetic connectivity here. And what I mean by that
12:43
Speaker 6: at a molecular level. We're talking molecular evidence because this
12:47
Speaker 6: is very very intimate, Nancy, and people will say, well,
12:51
Speaker 6: he occupied the same space, you know, and maybe she
12:54
Speaker 6: just happened to wind up with a deposition of his
12:58
Speaker 6: DNA on the on the anterior aspect of her throat.
13:02
Speaker 6: That's going to be hard for any jury to swallow in.
13:07
Speaker 2: We are also learning, are we not, Joseph Scott Morgan
13:10
Speaker 2: that there was no indication that there were drugs or
13:14
Speaker 2: alcohol and antikitinar system.
13:18
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, you're right.
13:20
Speaker 1: And how was that determined?
13:22
Speaker 6: Well, they would have drawn. We draw toxicology at every
13:25
Speaker 6: single autopsy and we refer to it as a standard panel.
13:29
Speaker 6: And you think about the standard drugs of abuse, and
13:32
Speaker 6: then there are scripts that are out there, you know,
13:34
Speaker 6: things like anti anxiety, depression, anti depression medication, everything, even
13:40
Speaker 6: for hypertension, the other thing that we screened for. And
13:43
Speaker 6: this is what you're always thinking about relative to young
13:46
Speaker 6: people on cruise ships. We do a ba A blood
13:49
Speaker 6: alcohol level level at ethanol level, and it's coming back negative.
13:53
Speaker 6: You know, one of our big concerns. And we've talked
13:55
Speaker 6: about this. You and I have talked about this specifically.
13:58
Speaker 6: With trips like this, you think about, well, was her
14:01
Speaker 6: drink spike? Does she have a huge amount of alcohol
14:05
Speaker 6: in her system that would have at least knocked her
14:08
Speaker 6: down to a position where she was completely vulnerable. They're
14:11
Speaker 6: not seeing that here, Nancy. They're not seeing this at all,
14:14
Speaker 6: So that leads us down a different path. This is
14:17
Speaker 6: not like something that she was poisoned struck her throat,
14:20
Speaker 6: or she was aneebrated struck her throat, anything like that
14:23
Speaker 6: that's not the indication that we're getting.
14:26
Speaker 2: Greg Morris, if the reports are true that the step
14:31
Speaker 2: brother has been charged and that is coming from his stepfather,
14:39
Speaker 2: what you've already told us about.
14:41
Speaker 1: Tampering with evidence, But why are you prone.
14:44
Speaker 2: To believe it's not a murder or some sort of
14:48
Speaker 2: a homicide charge.
14:50
Speaker 5: Well, the reason why is nothing's come out that he's
14:53
Speaker 5: charged as an adult. I don't think the federal government
14:56
Speaker 5: would charge her murder for a sixteen year old and
15:00
Speaker 5: keep them in juvenile court. I've had these situations before,
15:05
Speaker 5: and generally the person that stays in juvenile court is
15:08
Speaker 5: getting a non homicide charge, and because that person, they
15:12
Speaker 5: want information to link to the people that committed the homicide.
15:15
Speaker 4: So that's the only reason why I say that.
15:17
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, Morris, I got a question
15:19
Speaker 2: for you based on something you just said. If in fact,
15:23
Speaker 2: this is true, and the reason we're questioning it right
15:27
Speaker 2: now is because it's been kept under wraps.
15:30
Speaker 1: The reason I believe it's been kept under wraps is
15:33
Speaker 1: because he.
15:33
Speaker 2: Is a juvenile and those records are kept secret. It's
15:38
Speaker 2: really hard, even with a subpoena for even a prosecutor
15:43
Speaker 2: to get juvenile records. I recall Greg Morris, I don't
15:47
Speaker 2: know if this has ever happened to you. I was
15:49
Speaker 2: trying an adult for homicide. I found out through word
15:55
Speaker 2: of mouth. You know, a witness, one of my witnesses
15:58
Speaker 2: told me, oh, yeah, he's had a shooting before a
16:01
Speaker 2: couple of years ago when he was still a juvenile.
16:03
Speaker 1: I'm like, what similar transaction I want that.
16:07
Speaker 2: I tried and tried and tried to get it throughout
16:11
Speaker 2: the trial.
16:12
Speaker 1: When the case went to the jury, In other words, I.
16:16
Speaker 2: Had rested my case, the defense had rested its case,
16:19
Speaker 2: the jury instructions had been given, the.
16:21
Speaker 1: Jury was deliberating.
16:24
Speaker 2: Guess what into court comes a rep from juvenile court.
16:29
Speaker 2: And he had three prior shooting incidents, which I could
16:34
Speaker 2: have used a trial if I had had them.
16:37
Speaker 1: But I tried.
16:38
Speaker 2: I fought tooth and nail. I went through Helen high
16:41
Speaker 2: Water to get those juvenile records with a subpoena, and
16:45
Speaker 2: I got them a day late and a dollar short.
16:48
Speaker 2: The jury never knew that he had a history of
16:51
Speaker 2: shooting people and shooting at people. They convict them anyway.
16:55
Speaker 2: But that said, that's how hard it is to get
16:57
Speaker 2: a juvenile record. Now here's my question. You're saying you
17:01
Speaker 2: don't think it is a homicide charge. I'm not saying murder.
17:05
Speaker 2: Homicide could be murder, it could be manslaughter, it could
17:10
Speaker 2: be involuntary manslaughter, any of those choices. You're saying you
17:15
Speaker 2: don't think that it's one of those because if it were,
17:19
Speaker 2: he would have been bound over to adult court and
17:24
Speaker 2: that hasn't happened. So therefore you're thinking it's not a homicide.
17:28
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to understand your thinking.
17:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think so at this stage that it
17:34
Speaker 5: is a homicide charge because again, he's still in juvenile court.
17:38
Speaker 5: It appears or a juvenile designation in federal court, so
17:43
Speaker 5: right away, when someone's charge as an adult, it becomes public.
17:46
Speaker 5: And also they could be working up to go to
17:50
Speaker 5: a grand jury. The grand jury they don't go to
17:52
Speaker 5: every day. They can convene them on an emergency basis.
17:55
Speaker 5: They do go regularly to grand juries, and you have
17:57
Speaker 5: to get a grand jury has to issue charge. So
18:01
Speaker 5: they could just have issued a criminal complaint alerted. That's
18:05
Speaker 5: just what's going to happen, and then they'll go to
18:07
Speaker 5: a grand jury later, although.
18:09
Speaker 4: That is a little unusual. With the relief. That is
18:12
Speaker 4: a little unusual with.
18:16
Speaker 5: A juvenile if they're not being charged with a homicide
18:19
Speaker 5: based offense. But again, this is still confidential. Nothing's in
18:23
Speaker 5: the system public. I checked right before I came on
18:26
Speaker 5: your show today to see if there was anything in
18:28
Speaker 5: the federal system and there still is not access by
18:31
Speaker 5: open to the public.
18:32
Speaker 2: Anna Ketner's body was found and it was dead, stuffed
18:36
Speaker 2: under a bunk under one of the beds in the room.
18:40
Speaker 1: Do we have proof that her stepbrother did this?
18:43
Speaker 6: To this date, we don't have any answers at this point.
18:49
Speaker 2: A lot has been made of the fact that the
18:52
Speaker 2: stepbrother's family seems more intent upon optics about what gets
18:58
Speaker 2: out to the media. Is it a surprise that they
19:03
Speaker 2: want to keep alleged charges on the down low? Straight
19:07
Speaker 2: out to Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Sidney,
19:12
Speaker 2: isn't it true that the step brother was viewed going
19:17
Speaker 2: to federal court?
19:20
Speaker 1: And this video here is from Fox thirty five Orlando.
19:24
Speaker 7: Yes, we watched him walk into court. He was flanked
19:27
Speaker 7: by a public defender and his father, Thomas Hudson. He's
19:31
Speaker 7: wearing that camouflage jacket and even.
19:34
Speaker 8: A hat underneath that though all media photos blur his space,
19:39
Speaker 8: they did not any want anyone seeing his face as
19:42
Speaker 8: he walked into this court room.
19:45
Speaker 2: So the teen step brother of Anna Kapner was seen
19:49
Speaker 2: leaving juvenile court entering federal adult court in Miami.
19:55
Speaker 1: Just a few days ago.
19:56
Speaker 2: And this is I made an investigation into Anna's death
20:01
Speaker 2: on the Carnival cruise ship. Now the documents are sealed,
20:07
Speaker 2: official charges not released as of right now.
20:12
Speaker 1: Doctor Jerlyn Utter is joining us.
20:16
Speaker 2: She is the clinical psychologist specializing in psychological evaluations and
20:20
Speaker 2: risk assessments for individuals. Author of mainlining Philly Survival Hope
20:26
Speaker 2: Resisting Drug Addiction. She's the author of Aftershock, How Past
20:30
Speaker 2: Events Shake Up Your Life Today, producer of Utter Nonsense.
20:36
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us, Doctor Cheron Utter. The
20:39
Speaker 2: question to you regarding claims that the family is more
20:44
Speaker 2: intent on protecting the reputation of the step brother, I
20:50
Speaker 2: find that loyalty highly displaced.
20:56
Speaker 9: I don't necessarily find it highly displaced. It on Nancy,
20:59
Speaker 9: because you know, to Greg Morris's point, you know, we
21:01
Speaker 9: don't actually know what happened in that room, and this
21:04
Speaker 9: sounds like a pretty you know, from the outside and
21:07
Speaker 9: from what we know, this was a blended family, a
21:10
Speaker 9: stepbrother and a step you know sister that for all
21:13
Speaker 9: intent purposes, as far as we can see, got along
21:16
Speaker 9: with each other. So because we don't know what happened,
21:19
Speaker 9: you know, the family is trying to protect the child
21:21
Speaker 9: that they have left. They can't you know, I couldn't
21:25
Speaker 9: imagine the grief that they're going through having lost the daughter.
21:28
Speaker 9: And essentially what's happening now is they're in the process
21:31
Speaker 9: of losing a son. So as far as optics go,
21:35
Speaker 9: I think they're just trying to protect their family, and
21:38
Speaker 9: because we don't know what happened, I think it makes sense.
21:40
Speaker 9: Another thing is, you know, he was reported you know,
21:43
Speaker 9: behavioral observations. He was reported as being you know, an
21:46
Speaker 9: emotional mess, extremely trimized. He was hospitalized psychiatrically after leaving. Now,
21:54
Speaker 9: that doesn't that's not an implication of guilt of any
21:57
Speaker 9: sort that we see when it's very traumatic event. Somebody
22:01
Speaker 9: was exposed to a very traumatic event. Him being hospitalized
22:05
Speaker 9: to just indicative of how much that impacted him. So,
22:09
Speaker 9: you know, I kind of I get where the family's
22:11
Speaker 9: coming from, and I empathize with them. They've lost a daughter,
22:14
Speaker 9: and now they're in the process potentially of losing a
22:17
Speaker 9: son if he doesn't get in trouble or convicted legally.
22:20
Speaker 9: You know, this has been another trauma on the family
22:23
Speaker 9: and it's it's heartbreaking.
22:28
Speaker 1: Why do you keep saying, we don't know what happened
22:30
Speaker 1: in that room. I'm curious.
22:33
Speaker 9: Because we don't know. I mean, we know that something happened,
22:36
Speaker 9: but we really don't actually know what happened in that room.
22:40
Speaker 9: He looks like, you know, somebody that was involved in something,
22:43
Speaker 9: but we don't know exactly what it was. So, you know,
22:47
Speaker 9: to the family's point, they probably know more than anyone
22:50
Speaker 9: does at this point because that's their son and trying
22:54
Speaker 9: to protect him is an obvious knee jerk reaction to
22:57
Speaker 9: somebody who loves him, especially his parents.
23:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
23:12
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, could you please refresh doctor Utter's recollection
23:22
Speaker 2: of the facts about.
23:24
Speaker 1: What we do know.
23:25
Speaker 2: Who went into the room, the little brother, the little
23:29
Speaker 2: one comes out of the room, leaving behind Anna Keptner
23:35
Speaker 2: alone with a stepbrother who had physically jumped on her
23:42
Speaker 2: before climbed on top of her and she fought him off.
23:48
Speaker 2: The little brother leaves hears fighting and throwing furniture in
23:53
Speaker 2: the room. He hears the stepbrother screaming at Anna.
23:59
Speaker 1: He goes wandering around all on his own.
24:03
Speaker 2: He's a little boy on a cruise ship till late
24:06
Speaker 2: at night. I don't know what the parents were thinking.
24:12
Speaker 2: There's video of Anna going into the cabin and never
24:17
Speaker 2: coming out.
24:20
Speaker 1: The step brother.
24:21
Speaker 2: Was in the cabin with her, and now she's dead,
24:27
Speaker 2: not by suicide. Just give me your factual analysis of
24:32
Speaker 2: what we know. As doctor gerald Utter says, we don't
24:36
Speaker 2: know what happened in that room. You know what, I
24:39
Speaker 2: don't need to count on my fingers to figure out
24:42
Speaker 2: two plus two is one, two, three four.
24:45
Speaker 1: I can figure that out. Help me out, Joe Scott.
24:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, one plus one still equals two, and so yeah,
24:52
Speaker 6: we were not a fly on the wall inside of
24:55
Speaker 6: the room. But from an investigative's perspective, Nancy, I have
24:59
Speaker 6: to de do that. I have one suspect that I'm
25:02
Speaker 6: looking at at this point in time, particularly if we've
25:05
Speaker 6: got secondary witnesses here that are reporting that they're hearing fighting.
25:09
Speaker 6: As a matter of fact, you've got an eyewitness that
25:11
Speaker 6: sees things occurring makes them so uncomfortable that they exit
25:14
Speaker 6: from this room. Now, I guess that people say this
25:16
Speaker 6: as young kid, but still he's got fear kicking in.
25:19
Speaker 6: He doesn't want to be around this environment. At this
25:21
Speaker 6: point in time, You've already got a witnessed attack that
25:25
Speaker 6: has taken place, and then you hear the screaming, the throwing,
25:28
Speaker 6: the furniture and these sorts of things when her body
25:31
Speaker 6: is found. When her body is found, I think the
25:34
Speaker 6: big question would be, does a level of violence and
25:38
Speaker 6: there is violence here that is displayed on her mortal remains, Nancy,
25:42
Speaker 6: does it marry up with what we're hearing from inside
25:45
Speaker 6: of the room. I think that at the end of
25:48
Speaker 6: the day, the science is going to tell the tale
25:51
Speaker 6: here relative to what happened to her. We still don't
25:54
Speaker 6: know all of the details relative to her trauma, but
25:57
Speaker 6: it is going to be extensive. The sounds, I got
25:59
Speaker 6: to tell you, Nancy, it sounds very savage to me
26:02
Speaker 6: when you're talking about a combination of not just asphyxiation,
26:07
Speaker 6: but also, as I'd mentioned previously, I think that these
26:10
Speaker 6: blunt force injuries that she is sustaining are an attempt
26:13
Speaker 6: to subdue her. And one more little fact PoID here
26:18
Speaker 6: in order to facilitate an armbar like this. You could
26:22
Speaker 6: do it from the rear, where you have an individual
26:24
Speaker 6: that is behind the subject and you're pressing against the
26:28
Speaker 6: neck around their neck, Okay, where you're actually pressing in
26:33
Speaker 6: toward them. However, in my opinion, I think that this
26:37
Speaker 6: is where she is face up on the floor. The
26:40
Speaker 6: assailant would be on top of her and literally pressing
26:44
Speaker 6: his forearm down onto her neck, after having subdued her
26:48
Speaker 6: with punches, perhaps maybe kicks. She may have been stomped.
26:52
Speaker 4: I don't know.
26:52
Speaker 6: We'll find out more.
26:53
Speaker 8: Though.
26:54
Speaker 10: He was the only one seen coming and going, so
26:58
Speaker 10: I can't I can't accuse him because I don't know
27:00
Speaker 10: what happened in that room, but the summation would beat
27:03
Speaker 10: it that he did something.
27:06
Speaker 11: Anna excuses herself from dinner early, not feeling well. Surveillance
27:10
Speaker 11: footage shows Anna walking back to and entering the room
27:13
Speaker 11: she shares with her brothers after eating. The teen boys
27:16
Speaker 11: come back to the room before the youngest sibling ventures
27:19
Speaker 11: out again to explore, leaving Anna and their stepbrother alone.
27:23
Speaker 2: So to doctor jerrellen Utter, you continue to state we
27:28
Speaker 2: don't know what happened in that room video and witnesses
27:34
Speaker 2: show Anna Keepner and the step brother entering the room.
27:40
Speaker 1: They're in there alone.
27:43
Speaker 2: The step brother comes out and she is found stuffed
27:47
Speaker 2: under a bed, wrapped in a sheet, strangled, asphyxiated.
27:52
Speaker 1: By a bar hold.
27:55
Speaker 2: So explain to me how you think they're the only
27:58
Speaker 2: two people in the room. How do you think she
28:02
Speaker 2: ended up under the bed, stuffed under the bed, wrapped
28:04
Speaker 2: in a sheet dead.
28:07
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't I don't want to kind of
28:09
Speaker 9: go back and forth on on all of the intricacies
28:12
Speaker 9: and you know, you know, did he do it, did
28:15
Speaker 9: he not do it? I mean, I think from a
28:16
Speaker 9: psychological standpoint, to your earlier point, this family is in
28:21
Speaker 9: survival mode and they're trying to protect the child that
28:27
Speaker 9: they have left, and they're just you know, an aggrieving process.
28:31
Speaker 9: They're to kind of process all this, figure out what's
28:34
Speaker 9: going on. Another thing is, you know, from from an
28:37
Speaker 9: evaluative perspective, if the court hasn't done this already, I
28:40
Speaker 9: would hope that they would order a full psychological evaluation,
28:44
Speaker 9: whether it's done on the juvenile side or the adult side,
28:47
Speaker 9: for the step brother, because we want to learn more
28:50
Speaker 9: about you know, his current mental capacity, his his you know,
28:54
Speaker 9: competency where he's at, if he's even appropriate to participate
28:58
Speaker 9: in court proceeding. And I think I think all of
29:00
Speaker 9: that data, you know, will reveal things. When we do evaluation,
29:04
Speaker 9: we reveal things about somebody's metal stability and their overall
29:08
Speaker 9: mental health. Not to be confused, and I'm not trying
29:11
Speaker 9: to say, hey, because you know he may or may
29:13
Speaker 9: not have a severe mental illness or psychiatric issue that
29:17
Speaker 9: that you know, kind of is an excuse for him
29:20
Speaker 9: to do what he's done. But I think, you know,
29:21
Speaker 9: really taking a look at him and evaluating him psychologically
29:25
Speaker 9: is really going to also help put the pieces of
29:28
Speaker 9: this case together.
29:29
Speaker 11: Anna Kaepner's death on board a carnival cruise ship now
29:32
Speaker 11: ruled a homicide, her autopsy stating she was mechanically asphyxiated
29:37
Speaker 11: by another person or person's The medical examiner finds two
29:41
Speaker 11: bruises on the side of Anna's neck. She may have
29:43
Speaker 11: been held in a bar hold, meaning her attacker held
29:46
Speaker 11: an arm across her neck.
29:48
Speaker 2: Still no arrest, now over seventy five days later.
29:53
Speaker 1: Nothing.
29:53
Speaker 12: The problem is you don't know who the people are
29:56
Speaker 12: that you're cruising with, so you could be cruising with murderers,
30:01
Speaker 12: child predators, and all sorts of criminals.
30:05
Speaker 2: When I say murder, I mean murder because there is
30:08
Speaker 2: no way she killed herself or had an accident and
30:11
Speaker 2: ended up stupped under a block.
30:14
Speaker 3: I got some news today on my daughter's case. They
30:19
Speaker 3: are going to charge her sixteen year old step brother
30:25
Speaker 3: or first degree murder, and there's gonna be some other
30:28
Speaker 3: charges brought, but I'm not sure what they are yet
30:31
Speaker 3: until they tell me. Uh, I don't know, so that
30:36
Speaker 3: is one of the charges, and as soon as I
30:37
Speaker 3: know more, I will let you guys know. Thanks for
30:39
Speaker 3: and support.
30:40
Speaker 2: That is Anna Kettner's biological mother, Heather, right, But then
30:45
Speaker 2: she posts this, so I guess I was wrong.
30:49
Speaker 13: With my update the other day.
30:51
Speaker 14: Apparently charged with anything when you went to federal report
30:57
Speaker 14: and so I'm not sure what that's all about.
31:00
Speaker 13: I also heard that you've been croudish June. Now not
31:03
Speaker 13: an ass adult, but just you get that boy, you
31:06
Speaker 13: would you just do it when he did?
31:08
Speaker 14: No if and the bus got it? That mean, so
31:13
Speaker 14: everybody fight for me, right for my daughters.
31:17
Speaker 13: Ke y'all, block bump the foot y'all.
31:19
Speaker 2: Okay, that is Anna's by a mom again and I
31:23
Speaker 2: just want to hear exactly what she says one more time.
31:26
Speaker 1: Let's listen carefully.
31:27
Speaker 13: So I guess I was wrong with my update the
31:30
Speaker 13: other day. Apparently they charged with anything.
31:35
Speaker 14: Why any might you, et cetera more and so I'm
31:38
Speaker 14: not sure, but that's all about I also heard.
31:41
Speaker 13: That you've been croudish June now not an.
31:43
Speaker 14: As adult, which is get that boy you would he
31:46
Speaker 14: was doing when he did? No, it's and the bus
31:50
Speaker 14: got it?
31:51
Speaker 2: That mean?
31:52
Speaker 13: So everybody fight for me? Right, my daughters, make y'all
31:57
Speaker 13: block up the foot y'all.
31:59
Speaker 2: That again was Anna Kipner's mother, Heather right, posting very
32:05
Speaker 2: very upset. She can't quite seem to get to the
32:07
Speaker 2: bottom of what the charges are straight out to Sidney Sumner,
32:11
Speaker 2: joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Sidney, I think the
32:15
Speaker 2: confusion stems from the fact that it's all under wraps.
32:19
Speaker 2: It's sealed because it's juvenile records. But according to the
32:23
Speaker 2: step father, which is Anna's Anna Kipner's bio dad, and
32:29
Speaker 2: according to ABC and other outlets, charges have been filed
32:35
Speaker 2: against the step brother.
32:37
Speaker 1: What do we know?
32:39
Speaker 2: What do we really know other than we saw him
32:42
Speaker 2: going from juvenile court. Let's see the video from juvenile
32:46
Speaker 2: court to federal court where he would be charged. If
32:50
Speaker 2: he's being charged as a FED. This is where our
32:53
Speaker 2: friends at Fox thirty five Orlando, by the way, that
32:55
Speaker 2: appears to be his public defender with him. So he's
32:59
Speaker 2: got his law while you're with him, and he's going
33:02
Speaker 2: to federal court where the whole thing started. This could
33:06
Speaker 2: be a matter of it's being handed over to state
33:09
Speaker 2: authorities to lodge charges. But what do we actually know,
33:15
Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner.
33:18
Speaker 7: Well, right, like you said, we know that Chris Kepner
33:21
Speaker 7: has commented that this team step brother has been charged.
33:26
Speaker 1: We do not know what.
33:27
Speaker 7: With Kepner did not go that far. He mentioned charges
33:31
Speaker 7: but did not get into the specifics of what those
33:34
Speaker 7: charges are. And we know that his relationship with Heather
33:39
Speaker 7: Wright and his mom is fraught with tension. They aren't
33:42
Speaker 7: on good terms. So the information that she's getting is
33:46
Speaker 7: not only second hands but also coming from the father.
33:50
Speaker 7: So whatever Chris Kutner is deciding to tell Heather right
33:54
Speaker 7: is what she's going off of. So, yes, keeping all
33:57
Speaker 7: of these records under seal is lee being a lot
34:01
Speaker 7: to question.
34:01
Speaker 1: Right now, crime stories with Nancy grace.
34:15
Speaker 15: He heard him yelling at her, like in a harmful
34:18
Speaker 15: way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that,
34:21
Speaker 15: Like something was like banging around and stuff, and like
34:25
Speaker 15: the chairs were getting thrown around in the room.
34:27
Speaker 16: And his brother had heard a heated argument between them
34:30
Speaker 16: in their cabin the night before Anna was found dead.
34:33
Speaker 16: He heard the stepbrother yelling at Anna. The sounds of
34:35
Speaker 16: furniture overturning and screams from inside their room.
34:40
Speaker 2: That was from our friends at Inside Edition. Greg Morse
34:43
Speaker 2: joining me veteran trial lawyers, a criminal defense attorney founded
34:47
Speaker 2: Morse Legal.
34:49
Speaker 1: I'm concerned.
34:50
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I'm concerned about right now is
34:52
Speaker 2: tampering with witnesses. No one's been charged with it. But
34:56
Speaker 2: the little brother, the jeevenile. Hey was a little brother Sydney,
35:01
Speaker 2: like twelve or thirteen years.
35:02
Speaker 7: Old, thirteen thirteen, the little.
35:07
Speaker 1: Brother, and he looks younger than that is seen on video.
35:12
Speaker 2: I mean, you might as well be in a casino
35:14
Speaker 2: in Vegas because every square inch of this cruise ship
35:17
Speaker 2: is covered with video. He's just wandering around the cruise
35:21
Speaker 2: ship all night by himself into the late hours that
35:27
Speaker 2: I think that's him, the little one that said, just
35:31
Speaker 2: wandering around. Now, his testimony, Greg is that he heard
35:38
Speaker 2: the step brother, the sixteen year old stepbrother, yelling at
35:42
Speaker 2: Anna in a quote harmful way, yelling things like shut
35:46
Speaker 2: the hell up. Something was banging around. It sounded like
35:49
Speaker 2: cheers getting thrown around the room. Then Anna ends up
35:55
Speaker 2: stuffed under the bed, wrapped in a sheet and covered
35:59
Speaker 2: in life.
35:59
Speaker 1: This a very infantile way.
36:02
Speaker 2: That's just got Morgan's term of covering up her body,
36:07
Speaker 2: and I agree with him. This is my fear. The
36:10
Speaker 2: family is so concerned about protecting the teen step brother.
36:16
Speaker 2: Could they coerce the little boy or encourage him to.
36:22
Speaker 1: Change his testimony?
36:23
Speaker 5: Is that possible, Well, that's always possible with any witness, right,
36:29
Speaker 5: people can be pressured all the time. You know, his
36:32
Speaker 5: testimony is your typical circumstantial evidence. That's very important to
36:38
Speaker 5: an investigation because people weren't in the room and witnessed
36:41
Speaker 5: the crime if that's where it happened. But when statements
36:46
Speaker 5: change later on, you know, as lawyers, you go and
36:51
Speaker 5: you hold credibility in the closest in time to the event,
36:53
Speaker 5: because our memories are better closer in time to the event.
36:56
Speaker 4: So it would just create an inconsistent statement.
36:59
Speaker 5: Now if they tried to pressure the younger child to
37:05
Speaker 5: change his testimony or say he was thinking of a
37:08
Speaker 5: different room, so that would lose credibility on some level
37:11
Speaker 5: because of the original statement. And Nancy, I want to
37:15
Speaker 5: point something out that the stepbrother could have been in
37:18
Speaker 5: court for another reason. The federal government, oddly enough, is
37:22
Speaker 5: very good at telling you you're the target of an investigation.
37:26
Speaker 5: They normally do that in my white collar cases, well
37:28
Speaker 5: before a charge, well before anything. And what they tell
37:31
Speaker 5: you is you're now a target of an investigation.
37:34
Speaker 4: You may want to seek counsel.
37:36
Speaker 5: When Sydney indicated he walked in with the public defender,
37:39
Speaker 5: he may have simply been in court because the federal
37:42
Speaker 5: government identified him as a target and the court now
37:45
Speaker 5: has to appoint counsel for him because he can't afford one.
37:48
Speaker 4: They can do that hearing, and do that before charges
37:52
Speaker 4: are ever filed, and charges.
37:53
Speaker 5: May never be filed. But that could also be a
37:55
Speaker 5: reason why he was in court and left. And we
37:58
Speaker 5: don't see anything in the system outside to the juvenile side.
38:01
Speaker 5: But there's always back to your original question, there's always,
38:05
Speaker 5: you know, witness tampering, people talking to witnesses did you
38:09
Speaker 5: you know? Change her testimony later on, but that would
38:13
Speaker 5: severely undercut the later change testimony because of the original statement.
38:17
Speaker 1: The child is dead.
38:20
Speaker 2: Anna Kittner is dead, either clothed or partially clothed, stuffed
38:24
Speaker 2: under a bed. The step brother is the main suspect.
38:29
Speaker 9: We do not know what condition her body was found,
38:31
Speaker 9: if she was wearing clothes or not.
38:33
Speaker 15: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to
38:36
Speaker 15: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do
38:39
Speaker 15: something sooner.
38:40
Speaker 11: Joshua too says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was
38:44
Speaker 11: one sided. The sixteen year old is obsessed with Anna
38:48
Speaker 11: and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances. He once even
38:52
Speaker 11: caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the
38:54
Speaker 11: two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep.
38:58
Speaker 9: She said that I tried to tell the parents that
39:01
Speaker 9: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me.
39:04
Speaker 1: He's like infatuated, attracted to her, like crazy. He's always
39:07
Speaker 1: one of the dator.
39:08
Speaker 3: Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole thing is
39:12
Speaker 3: his fault. If he would have taken the warnings that
39:19
Speaker 3: Anna's ex boyfriend gave him, then she would still be here.
39:24
Speaker 3: So keep that in mind, Christopher, I blame you.
39:29
Speaker 2: From our friends at Inside Edition and Just Mom nineteen
39:32
Speaker 2: eighty four on TikTok. It's often said, when you don't
39:35
Speaker 2: know a horse, look at his track record, Sidney Sumner,
39:38
Speaker 2: Crime Stories.
39:40
Speaker 1: What is being said? What are we hearing?
39:44
Speaker 7: Well, we know very little about this team. Step brother
39:48
Speaker 7: family member say he and Anna were best friends. We
39:53
Speaker 7: do know they mentioned some kind of demons in this
39:57
Speaker 7: child's past. Not sure what those are, what that could mean?
40:02
Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner, did you not just hear what Anna Kettner's
40:06
Speaker 2: little boyfriend said that he was on a FaceTime with
40:10
Speaker 2: her and saw the teen's stepbrother climb on top of
40:15
Speaker 2: her with sexual intent. That she said she was afraid
40:20
Speaker 2: of the stepbrother because of unwanted sex advances, and that
40:25
Speaker 2: he the boyfriend, tried to warn the family this was happening, but.
40:30
Speaker 1: Nobody wanted to hear it.
40:31
Speaker 2: We just heard that, and now the stepbrother is put
40:36
Speaker 2: alone in a cabin. He's in the cabin alone, the
40:39
Speaker 2: little brother leaves, and she's dead well, right.
40:43
Speaker 7: So obviously there's this big disparity between what the family
40:48
Speaker 7: thought the siblings relationship was like and what her friend
40:52
Speaker 7: knew about what was going on. You're right that teenage
40:56
Speaker 7: ex boyfriend tried to warn Anna's parents something was amiss
41:01
Speaker 7: in this relationship and that this stepbrother was dangerous to Anna,
41:06
Speaker 7: but apparently no one listened.
41:09
Speaker 1: You know, just got Morgan.
41:11
Speaker 2: When you put all of the evidence together, it's very,
41:16
Speaker 2: very disheartening, I imagine, especially for you as a death investigator,
41:21
Speaker 2: in reading that autopsy report.
41:23
Speaker 1: This girl was killed.
41:25
Speaker 2: She did not die accidentally, She did not die of
41:28
Speaker 2: natural causes, She did not die of suicide.
41:32
Speaker 1: This is homicide, very clear. Nobody's in jail.
41:38
Speaker 2: The sixteen year old step brother, now almost seventeen, has
41:41
Speaker 2: walked free. He has been released after that federal court appearance.
41:46
Speaker 4: Why hard to know?
41:48
Speaker 6: I can tell you this the pure definition of homicide,
41:51
Speaker 6: as we stated you know here, like when I teach
41:54
Speaker 6: my students at Jack State is and it's not judgmental, Okay,
41:58
Speaker 6: You're merely saying death at the hand of another. And
42:01
Speaker 6: in this particular case, this is not something where she
42:04
Speaker 6: slipped and fell on the end of the bed or
42:06
Speaker 6: on a coffee table or something like this. Is there
42:09
Speaker 6: a possibility that could have happened. I guess so in
42:14
Speaker 6: some other universe, perhaps this is what.
42:18
Speaker 2: So wait, are you saying there is a it's possible,
42:21
Speaker 2: It's possible, not even probable, but possible she slipped and
42:27
Speaker 2: died of asphyxiation in a bar hold.
42:30
Speaker 6: What No, what I'm saying is that in some other
42:34
Speaker 6: universe that that could be potential. I've never seen a
42:37
Speaker 6: case like this where you have direct pressure applied to
42:41
Speaker 6: the neck and it has to be applied for a
42:46
Speaker 6: long period of time in order to impact the air flow.
42:50
Speaker 4: Nancy.
42:51
Speaker 6: This is something that would have would have required constant
42:55
Speaker 6: pressure across her neck or a protracted period of time
42:58
Speaker 6: until every ounce of life was out of her body.
43:01
Speaker 6: I think one of the big question is one of
43:03
Speaker 6: the big questions is is that whoever perpetrated this. I
43:07
Speaker 6: would really like to know what was going on with
43:10
Speaker 6: them inside of their head relative to commit such an
43:15
Speaker 6: animalistic act on this young girl, Nancy.
43:19
Speaker 1: You want to know what's sin, who's head.
43:21
Speaker 6: Whoever pulled this off? Because there is a perpetrator, This
43:25
Speaker 6: is not an accidental Yeah huh.
43:28
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, you are a premier death investigator.
43:33
Speaker 1: But let me remind you.
43:35
Speaker 2: Joe Scott that the state never has to prove motive.
43:41
Speaker 2: It is not the state's duty to crawl into the
43:44
Speaker 2: head of a killer and think, Wow, wonder what happened,
43:47
Speaker 2: Wonder what he was thinking. Don't care what he was thinking.
43:50
Speaker 6: Okay, let me hang on now, hang on one second. Now,
43:54
Speaker 6: let me tell you something here. My concern in addition
43:58
Speaker 6: to this, is there somebody out there, they're roaming free
44:01
Speaker 6: at this moment in time, that has the capability to
44:05
Speaker 6: commit this kind of savage act on other people. And
44:09
Speaker 6: I think that that is a genuine concern here from
44:11
Speaker 6: an investigative standpoint, I don't want them on the street,
44:14
Speaker 6: whoever in the hell did this. I don't want them
44:17
Speaker 6: around other teenagers. I don't want them around.
44:19
Speaker 1: Well, you're preaching to the choir, Joe Scott. You're preaching
44:22
Speaker 1: to the choir.
44:23
Speaker 2: And I don't have to know what was crawling around
44:25
Speaker 2: in his head at the time he allegedly murdered Anna
44:29
Speaker 2: Keptner to know. I don't want him out around other
44:33
Speaker 2: innocent victims.
44:35
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know.
44:37
Speaker 2: Anything about this case, please dial seven five four seven
44:43
Speaker 2: zero three two thousand, seven five four seven zero three
44:47
Speaker 2: two thousand. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,