Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #34: Interview with Shannon Greene, Toronto District School Board

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #34: Interview with Shannon Greene, Toronto District School Board · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA,
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invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
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Remarkable World Commentary here.
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Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights,
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perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who
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sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
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author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments.
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In November of 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian
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government to make its websites accessible to every we Canadian not just as sighted ones.
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And in July of 2019. I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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And most recently on June the 3rd, 2022.
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I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless
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commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or pottery studio,
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you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where
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policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into today's into today's conversation,
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let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest or changemaker,
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whose work is at every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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I'd like to welcome Shannon Greene to our podcast today.
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Welcome, Shannon.
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Shannon Greene: Thank you. It's my pleasure.
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That was an amazing introduction to all of your incredible journey and
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feats and successes. I love hearing that, Donna.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Thank you very much. And you have been part of our journey.
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So let's go into the question of the day or the first question.
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Shannon Greene: All right.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Let's rewind to 2010. And your grade schoolers penned those unforgettable
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letters urging Prime Minister Harper to drop Ottawa's appeal against my charter
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challenge win. What did that campaign teach your students and you about the
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real world power of kids?
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Civic voices.
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Shannon Greene: Tell him. Well it was a a very
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organic process of of finding you.
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And it all started with I was new to the school that I teach at,
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and I was team teaching with an incredible educator named Velvet Lacoste.
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And we saw an article in the Toronto Star.
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And you were in that article.
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It was about your your your challenge, your lawsuit.
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And it inspired us because we were team teaching health and science at the time,
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and the curriculum, wanted us to cover.
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Curriculum is the Ontario you know, sort of our code that we have to follow.
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And it was all focused on the needs of living things.
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And also the five senses and inquiry was a new concept.
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It was a child directed approach and asking questions to guide your learning,
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to guide our learning, because we were all sort of in it together.
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And the students, I brought the article and read it to the students,
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and we talked about the senses and how how you know,
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we some of us have strengths and, and, and we also have struggles and some of
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us don't have what we need as far as living things.
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Who When our needs are met.
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What? What? What can we do to to navigate the world?
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And so your article became our the point of our inquiry where students,
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these are six year old students asking, well,
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how does how does she navigate the world?
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Like, how would how would this whole journey of of advocacy and activism for Donna
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Johnson? How where did it start?
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Who is she? She's. We need to we need to ask more questions.
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So I reached out to I think your lawyer was mentioned in the article,
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so I sent. Was it David Baker and an email or even maybe I even called on the phone.
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And right away you you responded.
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I think you phoned me back.
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And so that was the beginning of our journey.
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The students asking well, what can we do?
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What can we do to help move this lawsuit along?
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Because this seems like a pretty manageable challenge.
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And I think something like 3 million Canadians would have benefited from this.
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I think they. Helen Henderson called it a an easily easy thing to
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put into place. But to quote you, the government spent a lot of money fighting
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you on it instead of working with you on it to to enhance 3 million people.
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3 million Canadians lives.
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And thus all of our lives.
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To be able to navigate their, their website and their,
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their the federal job applications.
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And so that's where our journey started.
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And how do you start the learning with grade ones.
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Well, you ask them questions, you know, do you think this is fair and what
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what can we do? Can we do anything?
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Well, we have a voice.
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And so we started really exploring issues of accessibility and strengths and struggles
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and it was it was an amazing journey, especially with you being involved in finally
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coming to meet them and giving them that chance to talk to you and meet you and and
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get to know you. And and I think that was the most powerful part.
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We prepared and we had lots of questions and we had some songs ready for you and some a
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touch art gallery. So that together with getting to know you and meeting you in person
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helped. I think the students understand your journey and the task that you had before you,
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which was enormous. But together, I think we both learned a little bit about
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that process. Does that answer your question?
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Donna J. Jodhan: It does. But I'm curious.
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Do you remember exactly what they said to the Prime Minister?
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Or somewhat. Do you remember somewhat what they said to him.
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Shannon Greene: I I only have the work that some of the questions that they had.
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I have, yeah. I don't have any letters, but they certainly
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I think what, what our focus in those letters was,
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was about equity and inclusion and empowerment and the need for them to believe
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in a government, an elected government, and that they have hope in their future that
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they'll see progressive change in Canada and that our government supports Courts,
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all of Canadians. No matter.
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No matter what our struggles are.
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Because we all have strengths.
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And yeah, I think that was I think that was sort of the core.
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Remember that their literacy is just emerging at that point.
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So they're just learning how to read and write.
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And I in this particular case, we did a little challenge.
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It was it was basically an accessibility audit in our own school community and our
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playground. And each, each group of three students had a navigator,
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a guide and a, a blindfolded student on a scooter board.
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So that's a little flat.
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It's a little bit like a skateboard, but it's it's square and they can sit,
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sit on it and be be guided and pushed.
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And so through that process, they began to empathize with.
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Well, not only with people with accessibility issues,
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but also just people with strollers or.
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People who are coming into the school who might have a mobile ability issue.
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And, you know, when we finished that challenge,
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they had a lot of very.
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Some very interesting feedback.
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And we brought that to our administration and the school board.
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And, Donna, to be honest.
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Ten years later, we're still fighting for for accessibility at our school.
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Proper ramps Proper accessible entrances doors that will automatically open.
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We're still fighting for that.
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Donna J. Jodhan: You know I don't think I will ever ever forget that October morning.
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I think it was a Monday morning and it was a typical fall day.
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And I thought what am I going to come up against with these little six year olds.
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What are they going to ask me.
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What are they going to tell me?
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What's in their little minds?
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You know, and I remember it.
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Before leaving home, my mom filled me with a huge breakfast.
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She said, you need this because that I was very nervous about the whole thing,
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right? But, you know, when I entered the school,
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you greeted me, and velvet was there.
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And I think there were other teachers as well.
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Yeah, the kids were waiting for me, and I could sense the suspense in their
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little hearts, you know, like.
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And I thought, oh my God.
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Well, why am I here? You know, but it's soon evaporated.
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And, you know, when I visited the Grove Community School last October,
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the students scintillating questions just simply blew me away.
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So which of their questions or reactions still echo in your mind,
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and how have they influenced the way you nurture the inquiries today?
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Shannon Greene: Well thanks to velvet she keeps amazing records and she wrote an article about you
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for her. She was taking a a course with our provincial union,
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But she had a she had a list of their questions.
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So, Matt, Maddie asked where you were born?
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Right. And Nora asked.
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Why is your cane white with red on the bottom?
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Rhona asked. How do we know that Stephen Harper will read our letter?
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Donna J. Jodhan: That was the most difficult access for me to give.
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Shannon Greene: And yeah, I.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Remember that one. Yeah.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah, that's a good, good question.
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Matt, Matthew said how do you like to read?
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Do you read in braille or do you read on a computer?
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Donna J. Jodhan: Good question. Yeah.
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Shannon Greene: Emma asked. How do you find things in your house?
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And your answer? I remember your answers.
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The kids were captivated by your organization how you label your
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clothes. To know which which color is which.
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It was Yeah. Unexpected.
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I think some of some of their questions, but also some of your answers.
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Emma. How did another student, Charlie, asked.
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How did you write when you were in grade one?
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Because we were encouraging them to think about,
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well, you know, what would it be like?
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Grade one for a sight impaired?
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A student or someone who is blind.
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And so they started thinking deeper.
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They also started thinking about, well, how did you read your field trip forms
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or your report card, or any of those communications that you would get from
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school? Because you probably only got the printed copy.
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And then I think you talked to us a little bit about Braille.
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Right. The students actually got a chance to do a little bit of Braille.
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We learned about it, and at the time, Laura shine.
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Velvet's mother in law.
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At the time she came in, she had a Braille machine.
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So the students got a chance to see the process of that and to get to understand how
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sensitive being able to feel that differentiation in the embossed.
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Letters. And so I think you explained to them a little bit about Brill.
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The other questions were about a guide dog.
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They really were curious why you didn't have a guide dog.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. Yeah, I remember that.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah. And what the most difficult thing for you to do?
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And do you, do you get frustrated when you can't do something that might be easy for
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someone else to do? So those were questions to get us all
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interested.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Did you ever hear back from the Prime Minister.
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Shannon Greene: Did we get a letter back.
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Yeah. I don't think we did.
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Donna J. Jodhan: No.
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Podcast Commentator: Oh.
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Shannon Greene: I think we would have had the I think we would have kept the letter in in the file.
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I it might have been a form letter.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. Probably. So we.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah that's pretty common.
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We do, we do quite a bit of letter writing advocacy.
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We've, we've been the last few years.
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You won't be surprised to know this, but it's harder and harder for us to
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get approval to bring in guests or to to go on field trips that are
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perceived as that have some geopolitical angle.
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Right. There is a paranoia right now that children will be exposed to
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something political, if you can imagine.
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So I feel like that that moment in time was a very special
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it was it was it was a our school was very young.
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It was in its first, first full year of being created,
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even though it's publicly funded.
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Our school board gave nine specifically themed alternative schools in our board.
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They, they opened that year, 20, 2009, actually.
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So I came along the second year of my school,
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and we took a lot of risks, just like you were saying,
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coming to our school, thinking to yourself, what am I going to
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expect here? What am I doing?
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Why am I feeling so nervous?
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Yeah, these are little.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Guys. Why am I nervous?
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Podcast Commentator: Yeah.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah, we were nervous too.
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And I'm nervous today actually for this podcast because I do I feel like,
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what if I don't remember all.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Are you doing good so far?
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I mean, like, in 2009, you helped to form the Growth Community.
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Shannon Greene: Growth Community School.
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Donna J. Jodhan: 2009, and you were embedding equity, environmental justice and
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community community outreach.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. So what's going back?
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What's happening now? I mean, look, you know,
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like looking past 15 years from then to now, which founding principal has proven the most
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hardest and most rewarding to keep alive.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the key founding principle of social justice is
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Well it's, it's, it's still as important that students have.
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A voice in advocacy where they feel there is injustice,
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whether it's political, racial, environmental.
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I think we are very lucky at the school that I teach because Parents are very keen to
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collaborate, and I don't know if you remember at the time we had key parents collaborating
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with us and yeah, Theresa Zurich was one key parent who came and helped
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support this event presentation when you arrived.
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Because. When we step out of the box, we don't stop teaching,
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and we we don't stop there regularly scheduled supervision and trying to keep the
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kids busy and transition from where they're supposed to go and make sure everybody,
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you know, has the right shoes on and has their snack and goes to the washroom and
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then, okay, in this block now we're going to sit and we're going to tap into our prior
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knowledge and our conversations about the science and integrated health curriculum.
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So this this was just a wacky idea that velvet and I had.
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And we had a really great group of students to work with and collaborate with in this in
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this sense. But I think social justice is the core value that I am.
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Struggling with in this 2025 climate of.
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Yeah, fear, economic uncertainty.
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We have an American president who doesn't seem to have the same concerns for all
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humans. We we struggle right now to really get
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into deeply into the issues that students want to get into.
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Yet post-pandemic, we're also recovering from a very
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an uncertain recovery.
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I mean, we have we we battle screen addiction,
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video addiction. A lack of movement, exercise.
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Physical engagement. So my you hear a lot about mental health,
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and now mental health is a strand in the health curriculum.
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So I. I am now a veteran teacher, and I mentor younger teachers coming in.
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And I thought about you.
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I've talked to you about this this year.
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I, I committed to continuing my commitment to accessibility,
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education and strengths and struggles.
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And for the first time since that year that you were with us,
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we did another accessibility audit.
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And there are grade 4 or 5 class or grade 4 or 5 teacher committed to doing it.
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And I've been part of a committee of myself and parents who are striving to work
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toward pushing our school board and lobbying our school board again,
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just like you have committed your entire life to.
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Recognizing these crucial tools that we need in our schools,
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our schools, our school communities.
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And it is it is like hitting a brick wall sometimes.
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But we now have included neurodiversity into the accessibility committee goals providing
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for neurodiverse students, giving them some spaces that that they can
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decompress, that they can regulate their bodies.
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So Is it? It is. Now, you know, we're in in in my school,
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we are going on 15, 16 years that my school has been operating.
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And in some ways we've taken leaps forward.
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But in some ways we've fallen back.
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And I have to keep reminding myself that every year a new group of children come,
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and every year that's a whole new year.
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And in some cases.
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Podcast Commentator: It's.
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Shannon Greene: Most a year is most of their life like 10%, 20% of their whole life.
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So it's really important to revisit this work often.
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Yearly would be great, but realistically, I think every couple of
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years. And the most powerful way to engage children is through their peers.
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So the oldest students in our school, the grade five sixes and the 4 or 5.
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They do presentations on these inquiries, like strengths and struggles.
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Accessibility, education.
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And and then it it the, the younger students,
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I don't want to say buy into it, but they, they buy into it.
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They believe and they respect that the, the process and the goals that the older kids
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have set out. So this year, the older students had a they had kind of a
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science fair, where they built accessible space.
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Their dream. Dream. Accessible space.
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Yeah, right. Right. So the kindergartens and the ones and twos and threes toured through
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the the presentations, and they explained what made their space so
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beneficial and how they used simple machines to enhance their,
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their, their space, their sculptural accessible spaces.
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And then they couldn't, you know, they're their kids.
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They love to they love to create.
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They love to think outside the box. So they made elevators and they made you know with
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pulleys and gears, they created these different levels of spaces and spaces that
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didn't need stairs that, you know, and that animals were welcome.
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And it was. It was a really beautiful thing.
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Excuse me.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I do remember you know, when we were on our journey together that
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parents did get involved.
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You know, and I do remember something about them taking,
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you know, our cause to a union meeting and that that union endorsed what we were doing.
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Sorry.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah.
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Donna J. Jodhan: I remember that.
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Shannon Greene: That's right. Yeah. So, one of the students Nora,
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her father. Bill. Yeah.
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I wish that I had that email.
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He brought He brought the, I think, the story
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of what the grade one students were advocating for.
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And he presented at one of the meetings.
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I think Bill was part of I want to I want to say ops two,
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but he was one of the executives on that particular
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board, and I, I don't remember all the details.
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Donna. Sorry about that, but that was an email that he sent to us and
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said, you know, we are in support and they may they may have sent an email mill
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supporting your. Your appeal to the government.
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That was Bill Fitzpatrick, I believe.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. I wonder what you know.
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These youngsters have grown up now.
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They're now young men and women.
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I wonder, would they remember any of these days that we were talking about?
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I remember when we celebrated the 10th anniversary of our victory.
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You had invited some of them to come on to a zoom call.
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Shannon Greene: Yeah, yeah I do. So they, most of them are
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22 years old now. And so that would have been five years ago.
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And that was during. We zoomed with you and the class that I
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was teaching at the time.
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Right. Were I believe that they were watching and listening.
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And everybody had masks on at that point.
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Donna J. Jodhan: Right.
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Shannon Greene: Right. Right. And yeah, I think they were they,
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some of them remembered a lot and some of them remembered a little.
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Yeah. And I think they were happy to see each other because some of them hadn't seen each
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other since they had graduated in grade six.
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So that would have been.
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Yeah, they would have been in high school, just starting maybe high school.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's it's funny, I mean to think about what,
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what do you remember from grade one?
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You know, I think that Stories help keep keep memories alive.
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And it probably did jog some of their memories.
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Right. And I mean, we did some extraordinary projects in that that first couple of years.
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And we had parents who were filmmakers.
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So some of these projects were documented and filmed.
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I think you were set to bring a camera crew, but I can't remember if you brought a camera
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crew. Did you bring a camera crew with you to we.
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Donna J. Jodhan: We tried, but for some reason they were not allowed into the school.
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Okay. I don't remember the whole reason why, but we did try to bring a camera crew,
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but it didn't quite work out, which was kind of disappointing because,
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you know, I really wanted to give these kids a voice.
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I mean, I don't think I, you know, sitting here thinking about it,
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I never expected these little guys to be so conscious of what was going on.
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And the questions that they, they asked is, is something I'll never
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forget. You know, even so many years later, I yeah,
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I wonder what is going on.
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And, you know, like, as I've told you many times,
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I am more than willing to return to your school if you think it would help in any way.
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I am more than willing to come in and talk to them about anything,
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you know? I know the landscape has changed a lot,
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but the fundamental reasons for accessibility have not changed.
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And if there's anything that I personally can do to help you in any way,
37:09
like don't hesitate, you know, to reach out.
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Shannon Greene: Well. Thank you. Yeah, I will I'll send you some dates and we'll
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make we'll make that work.
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We'll make that happen.
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I there are lots of ways around the vetting process,
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but it is. Education is so different right now,
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and it's it's disappointing.
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Because when I started teaching over 20 years ago,
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I was very proud of, the equity statement that my board created in
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probably in 2000, it were around 2000, maybe a little earlier than that.
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Boards all over North America used it as a model.
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And Toronto had the like.
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We were we were forward thinking.
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And unfortunately, there has been it's I don't feel
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that way, I, I but I, but I feel personally like I have a
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commitment. I have made a commitment to social justice and equity and anti homophobia
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education, anti transphobia, anti-racism education and it's it's sometimes
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I, I feel even though.
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I might not have the support of administration.
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Children holistically, are kind, and they have a social justice
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intuition. And I feel like hate.
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And the isms are taught.
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They have to be taught.
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They don't. Kids don't genuinely show up.
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No hate hating. They genuinely are empathetic and they want to do good.
39:39
And I think those early years like it from the moment that children can Communicate.
39:48
The early years are so important in helping to cultivate that foundation.
39:56
And because. We have advocates who are incredible educators like yourself.
40:07
It's during that that whole year we had people around us that were also ideas,
40:15
people and thought outside the box.
40:19
And so Jennifer came in.
40:21
Jennifer was a actually, she's in my choir.
40:26
I joined the choir that Jennifer was in.
40:28
She came in and talked to the students, and she brought her guide dog.
40:32
And we had lots of opportunities for students to really go deep into
40:42
learning about accessibility and a woman, a young woman named Tali on the Go bus,
40:51
met one of my colleagues.
40:53
And Tali was an incredible force of of, you know,
41:01
human being. Just powerful well-spoken, smart,
41:06
friendly. But she she happened to be disabled.
41:11
She I don't exactly know she was, you know, very visibly different from the
41:18
children. She was a very small person.
41:21
She had I mean, she I don't know exactly what The
41:35
terminology to describe it, but she she was born very different,
41:38
differently abled. But when she came in and talked to our students her story was just so
41:46
inspiring. Amazing. She was adopted by a family that had 20,
41:53
20 children. So she had so many siblings.
41:58
And these were just. I guess her parents were like just believed in,
42:05
you know, they that was their goal in life to to give these kids a chance.
42:13
And so now Talley is an inspirational speaker and and just on the go train,
42:19
she she met my colleague, and my colleague came in.
42:24
Jackie came in and said, hey, I met somebody on the train today that
42:28
might be interested in coming in and speaking.
42:30
And she came and Talley came in and spoke to over 400 students and just about her journey
42:37
and her story, and, and I think those are those moments that,.
42:42
As a teacher. I, I feel like we we need to know people.
42:47
We need to know eye to eye or or, you know, in person and hear their stories.
42:55
And you were one of those people, Donna, that your story was it was a story of
43:02
struggle, but a story of perseverance, strength hope.
43:11
And And you're just a friend.
43:14
We're our friend. And and I I value that you want to reconnect because life gets
43:24
busy. I know that, and I know that you're busy.
43:27
And since. Since, you know, 2010 or.
43:32
Sorry, 2010. I can't believe how much you've accomplished.
43:38
And I'm super proud of you, and I hope that I could in my life,
43:47
achieve some of the amazing things that you have.
43:52
Donna J. Jodhan: You know, I want to thank you for your compliments.
43:55
I am very humbled. But, you know, I've always had great people around
44:00
me like yourself who want to work, want to make this a better world for our
44:06
kids. And to me, that's the main thing of that drives me every day when I wake up,
44:12
it's for the kids. But I know we're starting to run out of time.
44:16
But I wanted to ask you tell us a bit about the Gender Splendor week.
44:24
What? What is.
44:25
Shannon Greene: This? Yeah. So Yeah. So the year I came on board
44:38
That was That same year.
44:44
I, I was, I think, in my fourth year of teaching.
44:50
And I was really excited to be in an alternative school that we're committed to.
44:56
These you know, powerful social justice values.
45:03
And and I, in my teaching, knew that I could not comfortably be out of
45:12
the closet as a queer person.
45:14
And so in conversation at a planning meeting,
45:19
there were about 25 of us.
45:22
So a few teachers and and lots of parents ready to collaborate.
45:28
And I pitched I said I'd love to do something in In in a
45:37
community capacity where we celebrate gender and we together just focus
45:47
on gender equity, gender education, anti homophobia trans rights.
45:59
And the parents were all on board.
46:04
The teachers, some of the teachers were feeling confident.
46:08
We've we always as a school, you you have new teachers coming on board,
46:15
and and you never know.
46:16
You never know how how much enthusiasm they all have for certain things.
46:24
Plus, because it's the public system.
46:28
The hiring process is not like we we don't have a choice in the hiring process.
46:34
Just our administration do that.
46:37
So we I had a few exciting, excited people, and I had some willing
46:46
participants to collaborate.
46:48
So we sat down and we looked at a few resources.
46:52
And Velvet Lucas and Theresa Zorich were on board.
46:57
Theresa was a prof at OAC at the time and had lots of ideas and good
47:06
solid resources. But we also together, we wrote some curriculum around gender.
47:14
We gathered lots of materials, picture books,
47:18
songs. We use Cyndi Lauper's True Colors as our anthem.
47:23
And then, you know, subsequently, as the years went on,
47:27
we, we added to our collection of resources.
47:33
It was just basically trying to figure out how to teach anti homophobia in a
47:42
fun, celebratory, age appropriate way.
47:46
And nobody, nobody in the board was doing it.
47:49
I I was lucky enough to meet the, the equity instructional leader in our board
47:58
at the time. His name was Steve.
47:59
Steve Solomon. And he said, sure, I'll come.
48:03
I'd love to come. So he supported it.
48:05
He came and modeled a few activities.
48:10
Inclusive families. Love makes a family.
48:15
Velvet and I put together some art activities.
48:20
And, you know, it was amazing because the year after year,
48:24
it changed a little bit, but it it it is amazing over the last 15
48:30
years. How many more authors are writing about gender?
48:34
And how many more trans kids are writing about their experience?
48:41
And you know, as, as as the pendulum swings back in different areas of,
48:50
of Canada and the United States, I wholeheartedly,
48:54
100% believe in this this curriculum.
48:58
So every April we spend a week celebrating gender diversity.
49:05
And this year the grade five sixes, they they did some
49:15
drama around a picture book and they presented the
49:24
mini, the mini plays for the primaries Mary's and then gave the primaries a chance to do
49:32
the plays. Just, you know, like very short scenes from the picture
49:37
books. So that was a lot of fun.
49:40
And I'm really proud of the little school I teach on how much multi age grouping work we
49:48
do. Because the younger kids love the older kids and they're,
49:53
they're they're very good with them.
49:57
They're very patient. And they enjoy being mentors.
50:02
So that's that's what gender splendor is.
50:05
It changes. Sometimes it's you know, sometimes we do separate activities,
50:13
as, you know, in separate classes.
50:18
I like to teach a dance that when velvet was at the school,
50:24
she she brought us this The song Stereotype Dance.
50:30
By A singer called Sam.
50:35
Sam. Saya. Sam. Yeah, yeah.
50:37
And it's just it's just a fun, upbeat song about smashing stereotypes.
50:44
I'm not down with the stereotype.
50:46
And kids learn through art, music, dance, visual art.
50:55
Are they? That is that is the way that you're going to bring everybody on board.
51:04
It's it's so fun. It's so much fun.
51:08
And we have families, lots of families that are that all look
51:15
different, different ways.
51:17
You know, we have families with one parent.
51:19
We have families with two dads, we have families with three moms.
51:24
And you know, families that parents are separated and they're remarried.
51:31
And so I think inclusion looks so different.
51:37
But being open to being open and accepting and celebrate everyone's family
51:48
is. I think it is one of the, the keys to giving.
51:54
You know, giving kids being able to see their lives reflected in their experience and their
52:02
school their curriculum, their learning.
52:06
And I think kids who don't see themselves reflected in their curriculum and in their
52:12
school experience, they're not going to feel valued.
52:17
So yeah. So that's a bit about gender splendor.
52:22
Yeah.
52:22
Donna J. Jodhan: Well, we have precious few minutes left, and I always like to ask my guest at the end
52:28
of it all. What are you dreaming of?
52:32
What is your dream for the next few years?
52:34
If you could tell me in a few minutes.
52:37
What is it you really would like to see happen?
52:45
Shannon Greene: Well, that is that is the the question of the the day and the summer
52:56
and the year, I think I'm really I'm hoping that I can.
53:07
I can really bring joy to my teaching or continue to bring joy to inspire
53:17
students to just dive in and take every opportunity that they have.
53:25
I promised myself mostly, mostly this year.
53:32
I promised myself less committees and more experiences.
53:39
Where to give the students active fitness fun.
53:46
Games. Teach. Teach them as many games.
53:50
Any fitness related activities?
53:52
Lots of music. I want to just as I tried to, with gender splendor and with accessibility
54:02
curriculum. There are families in our community that are indigenous and that have
54:08
brought us so much so much learning through just their,
54:19
Their. Understandings of their indigeneity and sharing their learning around
54:28
indigeneity. And I, I really want I don't want the indigenous students in our community
54:37
to graduate without opening up space for them,
54:43
for their voices, for their their music, their ability to drum.
54:51
So that's that's something I'm dreaming of for next year.
54:56
I want to continue just integrating all of the arts into education and
55:06
Yeah. And I think, I think just right now I'm just reading unearthing Joy by Goldie
55:15
Muhammad, and it is It is so important to.
55:22
To to acknowledge and celebrate identity and give students of ways to really
55:32
celebrate their identity.
55:34
And as a white educator, I think I and a settler,
55:42
I mean, my role is not necessarily.
55:49
It's it's changing. Teaching is changing, and I,
55:54
I sometimes act as a bridge or a catalyst.
55:58
And sometimes I act as a referee.
56:04
Yeah. I've learned a lot over the last 20 years and more.
56:08
Part of my hopes and my dreams are from my own children.
56:12
My daughter is 16 this year, so that's a huge.
56:17
Milestone. Right. And my son is 20.
56:21
So you know, they're becoming young adults.
56:26
Adults in their own right.
56:27
And yeah, I think my hope is to try to stay positive.
56:35
Have opportunity to use my platform to ignite the voices of marginalized
56:46
students and families.
56:49
And we can work together to make that change that that we constantly need to push for.
56:55
It's never ending. Because, like I said, the pendulum swings.
57:00
And So that's what I'm dreaming about.
57:04
I'm. I'm digging in, and I'm ready to put in some serious advocacy.
57:12
And now that I'm a veteran or a mentor teacher.
57:18
I, I need to model that within my school community.
57:24
Staff, parents, students.
57:28
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah, we're almost out of time, but I really have enjoyed this,
57:33
this interview with you.
57:34
I've learned so much from Donna.
57:38
Shannon Greene: I learned from you every time I went to you.
57:42
Donna J. Jodhan: You know, not just going back to what?
57:45
What we did so many years ago, but your your insight and your commitment.
57:49
I could I could hear it in your voice.
57:52
And like I said, I would love to work with you.
57:58
Shannon Greene: Moving forward. Let's make that happen.
58:00
We'll make that happen.
58:02
Donna J. Jodhan: We will make it happen.
58:03
But I want to thank you, Shannon.
58:05
And please say hi to velvet for me.
58:09
Shannon Greene: I will, she says hi.
58:10
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay.
58:11
Shannon Greene: And I'm sure she would love to be on your podcast.
58:14
So.
58:15
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay. Okay.
58:17
Shannon Greene: Let's make that happen too.
58:18
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. So let's reach out.
58:21
I know the summer is almost well.
58:24
We have a month left, but you tell me, you know,
58:28
when you feel like talking again, and we'll make it happen.
58:33
Shannon Greene: That sounds great.
58:34
Donna J. Jodhan: Okay, well, thank you so much, my dear, and I appreciate it.
58:40
Shannon Greene: Thank you. Donna.
58:41
Donna J. Jodhan: Great work. Keep up the great I will.
58:43
Shannon Greene: You too. All right. Yeah.
58:45
We'll be in touch again.
58:47
Donna J. Jodhan: Yeah. Thanks, Shannon.
58:48
Thank you very.
58:49
Shannon Greene: Much. All right.
58:50
Donna J. Jodhan: Thanks.
58:50
Shannon Greene: Take care. Thanks, Donna.
58:52
Donna J. Jodhan: Bye. Bye now. Bye bye.
58:57
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna.
59:01
Hand at gmail.com. Until next time.