Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Sunil Rao's Purpose-Driven VC Approach: Investing in Technologies That Empower Humans

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Sunil Rao's Purpose-Driven VC Approach: Investing in Technologies That Empower Humans · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:16
today's guest is Sunil Rao, COO and CFO of Plum Alley Ventures,
0:22
A venture capital firm investing in founders creating innovative
0:26
technologies in medical breakthroughs, vertical AI
0:29
applications, AI enabled hardware and defense.
0:34
The firm supports innovations that positively impact human
0:37
progress and operates both a membership based SPV platform
0:42
and a traditional fund. Plum Alley invest from late seed
0:47
to Series C and is currently raising a $100 million fund
0:51
focused on technologies that enhance human health,
0:54
productivity and safety. At the firm, Sunil leads
0:58
strategic initiatives, financial operations, and investor
1:02
relations. With over 2 decades of
1:04
experience at Barclays and Citigroup, he brings deep
1:07
expertise in corporate finance, client management, and global
1:10
business leadership. Sunil holds an MBA in Finance
1:14
and ABA in economics. Now before we get into all that
1:20
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AD back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:02
today, Partners COOCFO of Plum Alley Ventures.
2:06
Sunil Rao, thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:09
No, it's a pleasure, Anthony. Thank you so much for having me.
2:12
So I want to go back even before your work experience at KPMG,
2:18
Citigroup, Barclays. What was it like for you growing
2:22
up and how was it that you ended up coming to America?
2:28
You know, I'd, I'd love to be able to say it was, it was by
2:32
design. But you know, the, so I, when I
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grew up in India and I was like most Indian families, Anthony,
2:38
there was a lot of focus on hard work, education and success.
2:42
And, you know, I had the privilege of at least, you know,
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my parents gave me the privilege of being surrounded by people
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that are achieved. I was an environment of, you
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know, students and peers that had done, you know, bigger and
2:57
better things that, that I, I was doing at that point in time.
3:00
So I grew up very hungry and ambitious and for the right or
3:03
wrong reasons. You know, for me, I just wanted
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to be the, the youngest and the best at everything that I, that
3:09
I, that I did, I wanted to do. So my choices were very default.
3:13
And I wish in hindsight had done things differently, but it's,
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it's held me in good stead. So, you know, when I went to,
3:20
you know, college, you know, the best company that was there is
3:23
the one that I went for that I went for the, I chose to go to
3:26
the best in a Business School. Then I went to the best company.
3:29
So I think, you know, it started off like that.
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And I think finance and when, when city happened, where you're
3:35
in KPMG happened, they were the best recruiters on the campus.
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But when I came into the organization, what I realized
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was the power to make a change given a big platform was what,
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you know, I was, I was really enthusiastic about.
3:50
So the power of finance to make a difference was what really
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kept me going within the field of finance.
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So that's why there is ambition and blind ambition that got me
4:00
there. It very quickly turned into the
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ability to be able to make a difference.
4:06
Did you do your university studies in India or was that in
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the states? I, I, I did, so I did my
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bachelor's in, in India and that it's an interesting story,
4:15
Anthony. You know, it's so again, I
4:18
worked hard in school. I got a good college and I, when
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I went there, I had this big chip on my shoulder.
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So I've done very well in school.
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And then you suddenly realize that that college, you know,
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gets the best students from across the country.
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That was a very humbling experience and that taught me
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that, you know, that's when I learned the difference between a
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fix and a growth mindset because the first three months of
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college and it was, was very difficult for me because, you
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know, suddenly gone from being one of the best to not being in
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the top 10 or top 15. And you went there saying this
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is what my capacity is all about.
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So that's when I learned what a growth mindset is, where your
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success is built on how much you learn and how fast you learn.
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And I think that was both, I think one very impactful for me
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at the same time as being a sobering experience.
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Who introduced you to the idea of a growth mindset?
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You know, I always believe that when you put stuff out there.
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So I'm a learner. I keep reading a lot of books.
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So I, I read books by Napoleon Hill when I was very, very
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young. I think when I was in my teens,
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I read his book and he speaks about, you know, the philosophy
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of success. He talks about, you know, the
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growth mindset and the fixed mindset.
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And but, and I spoke to a lot of people, they were not able to
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qualify the term growth mindset, which I now can in hindsight.
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A lot of people say failure doesn't define you.
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It defines the action that you've taken.
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As long as you're trying, there's nothing called failure.
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So there's a lot of stuff that got, you know, building to me,
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you know, by my parents, by my peers, by my mentors at that
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stage, which I now realize is called the growth mindset.
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And I think what you touch on there is really important.
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And I've noticed this in myself that it, I probably grew up in
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a, more of a fixed mindset. Well, I'm good at this.
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I'm smart at this. Until I wasn't right, kind of
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like you, you, you know, went to a, a premier university and now
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all of a sudden you're not in the top 10 or 15 and you're
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like, wait a minute, I thought I was smart.
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Now I'm not. Who am I?
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Like, where do I fit in? Like this sort of identity
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crisis. And then slowly over time, I
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realized, man, I can get better at things by applying myself, by
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really practicing. But it wasn't until probably my
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30s that somebody introduced me to that term growth mindset, and
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somehow just having the language around it help me understand and
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wrap my head around it a little bit more.
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You know, also examples, Anthony, right?
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So for example, if there are some of the examples around and
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people take these examples of, you know, McEnroe just
6:48
phenomenal talent, but had a very fixed mindset and he speaks
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about it now. So there's so many examples of
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people in sports and politics that had the talent but didn't
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have a growth mindset that didn't make it.
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And you know, I, I generally believe some of the choices that
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I've made because I learned about the growth mindset early
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on. What I'm of the fundamental
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opinion that you, you can't be boxed and what you've done in
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the past doesn't define what you can do well and what you can do
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in the future. That's how I've built my career.
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I've always done stuff I've not done before.
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That's how hire people. As long as, you know, I find
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somebody that's willing to go at a problem, what they've done
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before has less impact on my hiring, you know, selection.
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So it's it's really played into so much of, you know, the way
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that I make decisions, the choices that have made it
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personally and professionally. Let's skip ahead then for a
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minute here. You're talking about, you know,
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how you assess people in terms of hiring.
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How do you assess people in terms of, you know, what you're
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looking for in a founder? I think that's a great question,
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right? And I wish there there was one
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answer for I think 1 is, you know, we've found most, most
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founders and they have, they have a audacious purpose, right?
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They've got, they think in terms of decades.
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But the best founders we've seen Anthony, they execute
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scientifically. So which means they execute on
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90 day milestones and that's very difficult to play.
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We're thinking in terms and dreaming in terms of decades,
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but you have the ability to execute in, in terms of 90 day
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miles. So that is 1 is very important.
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I think the second is, you know, a very short learning loop.
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And I've seen how they, they, I trade the process and I've seen,
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you know, how they able to go from experimental feedback.
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And again, I, I don't see ego and feedback.
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So that's been very important. Emotional resilience.
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They're very sympathetic to stakeholder expectations.
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And then their talent magnets, some of the best founders have
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seen are able to attract phenomenal talent along with
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them. And that that happens when your
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purpose, you know, the why is very, very strong.
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So I've seen those as pretty similar characteristics around
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some of the successful founders. When you see people who are a
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talent magnet, is it? Are they typically very outgoing
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people, like big personalities that people are naturally drawn
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to? Or do you do you see introverts
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have this capability as well? Just because, like you said,
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that the idea sort of the why behind their project is, is so
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compelling to people that even if the founder doesn't have sort
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of this big magnetic personality, in a natural way,
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they still draw people to them. And I've, I've seen both and
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again, goes back to the mindset, Anthony, and sometimes a lot of
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the extroverted people get lost in the, the validation that they
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get from people around them. I've seen a lot of extroverted
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people when they don't get positive feedback, you know
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this, they, they go back into their shell and they're not able
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to engage well. On the other hand, the
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introverted people, they, they, they don't lean so much in
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validation, which means they're able to deal with stresses,
10:06
failures a lot better than what extroverted people are.
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Again, it's not so much of an extrovert introvert, but I think
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it's where you thrive. If you thrive in, you know, in
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thinking and sitting and working on products and that's what you
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should be doing. But then you just have somebody
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else on the team, maybe in the sales side that's out there
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speaking to clients, that's out there raising money with you.
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I don't think a founder has everything, but just by this
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being a talent magnet, understanding who you are, what
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your shortcomings and strengths are, and then trying to
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complement a supplement that with other people, I think is
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extremely important. That's something that we do.
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We work with the founders, you know, very closely and we make
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sure they've got the right talent at different inflection
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points. You know, the other place where
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you spend a lot of time with founders is on, you know, the,
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the psychological strength, you know the because it's going an
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up and down journey. We want to be there to make sure
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that they've got the flexibility and the muscle memory to be able
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to push through it. But yeah, we've seen a range of
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personalities. OK, let's back up a little bit.
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Before we get into how the idea to start Plumali Kim about, I
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want to hear just a little bit about some of your background
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'cause you worked for some of the, you know, the most
11:20
prestigious companies out there. We briefly mentioned KPMG, there
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was a a four year stop at Citigroup, then Barclays.
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If you had to pick from one of these stops to nil, which one of
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them was the most formidable for you and why?
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And I've, I've thought about that.
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It's about, or you know, what's the best part that I enjoyed
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about my career? I, the choices are made.
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And Anthony, again, you know, I, when it comes to people, when it
11:49
comes to profession, I think I try and I believe I take the
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best parts of what I've learned. It's a learning journey.
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So I'll give an example. City, when I joined them, had a
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phenomenal culture, right? They're the ones that taught me
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that if you're good at something, you have the
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capability to get some at something else or everything
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else. They put you in charge and give
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you a very, you know, responsibly very early on.
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And it's with them that I started the journey of being an
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internal founder, right? So across from banking carrier,
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I've built businesses and I've built 4 businesses across
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different countries. It's, it's been phenomenal.
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And it started because the culture at City taught me that
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the good at, you know, something generally can be good at
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everything. So I think, I think that from
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City, I think that is extremely important for me.
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The other one is, you know, when I joined Barclays, I think I was
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27 or 28. And then my then, you know, boss
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and supervisor said, you know, so we go ahead and build a
12:45
business and this, this, this is a bank that's 300 years old,
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right, to give a 20 year old and then the keys, you know, the
12:52
Kingdom and say go build a business across 10 countries.
12:56
And I trust you to do that was a phenomenal opportunity for me
13:00
and learning experience. So what I learned from that is
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good people. And then over a period of time,
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you know, there, there were times in my career like
13:08
everybody else has, you don't enjoy what you're doing right.
13:11
And then came the third aspect of my career choice, which is
13:14
good work. So from Siri, I learned in a
13:17
good culture from Barclays, I learned good people.
13:22
And then I also, when I was on enjoying myself, I learned about
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good work. So these three aspects of the
13:28
one that defined what I want to do now going forward.
13:31
And sorry, it was Barclays who said go start a company.
13:36
And it was my boss in Barclays, they wanted to build a business
13:39
called the Fig business financial institutions Group.
13:42
So I was based in the Middle East and across they said, I
13:45
want we want to build this business across 10 different
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countries in Middle East and North Africa believe from
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scratch, right. And I spent quite a bit of time
13:53
doing that. You know, we grew the business
13:54
to be one of the largest, what we call sterling clearer.
13:57
So I mean, I build it down, you know, quite substantially to be
14:01
half, you know, the the value of the corporate banking business
14:04
for Barclays in the Middle East. And I, I think I could do that
14:07
because I had, you know, a boss and a team that had the faith in
14:12
my being able to do it. So the idea of working with good
14:16
people is something that I picked up from this first five
14:18
or six years in in Barclays. And tell us a little bit about
14:22
what this new business line was doing.
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So it'll be, it's called the financial institutions group and
14:28
they most of the clients are, are are the banks are the non
14:31
bank financial institutions and you give them transaction back
14:35
in products. You know, you do cash payments,
14:37
you do trade to make sure that they have the ability to offer
14:40
their customers the ability to be able to send payments in
14:43
different currencies. You manage the, you know, cash
14:48
in, you know, places like the UK in Europe.
14:51
At that time we didn't have the US And the other one is trade
14:54
finance, the ability to be able to, you know, vouch for your
14:57
clients and then you know, work the supply chain to make sure
15:02
that you know the the buyers and the sellers are connected to the
15:05
entire trade process. I say, OK, so how did the
15:09
opportunity to start Plum Ali come about?
15:13
Where was the idea from? So I, I joined Plum Ali the, the
15:17
two managing partners, Deborah Jackson and Avantika, they
15:21
started this in 2017 and is a very purpose driven
15:26
organization. Anthony, right.
15:27
So when, when Plum and Deborah saw Plum Ali, she wanted to make
15:32
sure that there was capital available to, to, to female
15:36
founders because at that point in time, nobody's talking about
15:39
getting money across to female founders.
15:41
And what she also want to do is get more people into the venture
15:45
capital ecosystem so that the benefit of an upside could be,
15:50
you know, the people who are not institutionalized and etcetera.
15:53
So we, it is always the purpose of an organization and also
15:57
feeds in from her background, right?
15:59
So she, you know, 30 years in walls, she's a legend in Wall
16:03
Street, 30 years, she's with Goldman Sachs healthcare.
16:07
So she's, she's done at the hardware, right?
16:10
And she's seen how difficult it is for a woman to walk up there.
16:14
And that's what Plum Alley came from, right?
16:15
So it is, it's a play on world on Wall Street.
16:18
So and it's about giving them in the opportunity to be able to
16:21
have plum seats or Plum Alley and not as, and it's a Wall
16:25
Street, it's Plum Alley. But so we always started as a
16:27
purpose driven organization and in 2023 and I've been investing
16:34
in, you know, startups for about 7 years.
16:37
So I was always drawn towards the idea of helping founders
16:40
and, and taking my skills and experience and helping founders
16:44
grow from, you know, zero to 1, one to 100 because I knew that's
16:47
what my skill set like. So in 2023, I started my own
16:50
consulting firm because I wanted to be an operating partner for
16:53
this. And as fate or luck would have
16:57
it, I came across the other managing partner at an event and
17:00
we were advising the same, same company.
17:03
And as we got talking, we, you know, they spoke about what the
17:07
vision for the organization is. They wanted to build, you know,
17:11
a fund that was able to help about 400 founders.
17:15
So they wanted to go from incremental to exponential,
17:18
which also meant building an organization or building an
17:21
institution that could manage about a billion, billion and 1/2
17:25
in in capital commitments and deploy.
17:27
And that's what I'm building towards.
17:29
Over the last, you know, one, I've been working on building an
17:32
AI enabled tech stack, which I hope will be a differentiator
17:35
for us in the industry and the way we source the way we manage
17:38
the portfolio. So it's I think it is a meeting
17:42
of minds and again it I think Plum Ali ticked all three boxes.
17:47
Great work, great culture and I have the option to work with
17:51
some phenomenal individuals so. And So what kinds of companies
17:55
do you look to invest in? What's your criteria?
17:58
So, you know, because you've always been purpose driven,
18:01
Anthony, we've always said that we want to invest in technology
18:05
that empowers, protects and extends human capability.
18:10
That's always that's always been the case.
18:12
And we always invest in the latest technology.
18:14
So we were investing in machine learning and data science way
18:17
before it became stuff that came on the front page of Bloomberg.
18:21
And now the latest technology is AI.
18:24
And when you talk about, you know, human capability, health
18:27
care or medical breakthrough is a large part of it.
18:30
So what we invest in is quite a lot of medical breakthrough
18:34
companies, one that are coming out with, you know, unique ways
18:38
to be able to get new medicine, existing medicine are cheaper
18:42
and faster to the audience, new drug discovery.
18:45
We also have, you know, frontier technology like we invest in a
18:49
company called Diligent Robotics that makes robotics available,
18:52
hospitals to be able to help the nurses.
18:54
We've invested in companies, you know, that look at water quality
18:59
and air quality. We will invest in cybersecurity
19:03
because for us protecting, you know, the human capability
19:06
involves protecting data defects, etcetera.
19:10
So it's education. You know, we want to make sure
19:13
that we've got, yeah, I enabled hardware that makes work, you
19:18
know, the work environment, the physical work environment a lot
19:21
safer. How do we make sure that we
19:23
increase the human capacity for thought, for learning, for
19:28
action in, you know, in the industries, anything that
19:30
extends human capability. And I'd and I'd like to believe
19:34
the way we differentiate ourselves, Anthony is the first
19:37
question we ask is, you know, to the founder is how are you going
19:42
to impact a billion lives positively, right?
19:46
So we are we're very the rest of the industry says, listen, how
19:50
are you going to make a billion dollars right now?
19:53
We we flip that question. It is important for us, right.
19:55
So for example, we say, if you're able to answer the
19:58
question, how are you able to positively impact a billion
20:00
lives? To be able to do that, you need
20:03
to grow, you need to be profitable and you need to be in
20:06
a market that has got a sizable tab, right.
20:09
So that becomes a second, it becomes a need rather than
20:13
driving force behind the investment.
20:14
So we have flipped the script. They were saying you need to be
20:17
purpose driven, but you need to be.
20:19
You need to grow fast enough and be big enough so that you can
20:22
impact a billion lives. I mean, that's a, that's a tall
20:25
yardstick. A billion lives, yeah.
20:28
They reach for the stars, right. So you mentioned a, a few
20:30
projects there that I I'd like to hear just a little bit more
20:33
about robotics to help nurses. What does that look like?
20:36
So I mean, you've got and a few companies that, you know, we're
20:40
very proud of in terms of investing and there's another
20:43
one that I could bring to the table.
20:44
But Dozen Robotics has, you know, they put, I mean, their
20:49
technology can be used in different use cases, but the one
20:52
they've gone for is hospitals where, you know, they've been
20:56
able to build a robot that can autonomously go from the
21:00
patient, patient side, helping nurses, you know, get the
21:04
equipment that they need at that point in time.
21:06
It can go across hallways, it can go up, you know, to the to
21:11
the break room to be able to get the equipment across it.
21:14
It's very autonomous as long as pre programmed terms of work can
21:17
get. So what we try and do is reduce
21:19
the workload on the nurses. So it goes and fetches things
21:24
like we need a a blanket or a medication or a syringe and it
21:28
goes and gets. It and they extended the
21:29
capacity, right. So for the time being, it is
21:31
about an automated movement across and we love automation,
21:36
right. So if, if I can, there's another
21:38
one that and the company very proud of.
21:40
It's called iron dried and what it what it rate does is it has
21:45
autonomous electrical logistics trucks for logistics.
21:50
And and we know there's going to be a shortage of truck drivers.
21:52
We know for a fact that, you know, a lot of the pollution of
21:55
the road is because of long distance vehicles running on
21:58
diesel, etcetera. So it I mean that company one
22:02
from a supply chain perspective, it is phenomenal.
22:05
Cuts down time you're using, you know, electricity to be able to
22:10
charge you running on batteries, so significant reduction in
22:13
pollution. So it just, you know, hits so
22:16
many of the well, positive and thesis that we have and, you
22:20
know, touch what they're doing well, they've got a great set
22:22
of, you know, leadership team. What about the one that you
22:26
mentioned working on air and water quality?
22:28
What does that do? So we've got a company called
22:32
Ketos and they help both from an industrial perspective and
22:37
agricultural perspective, measure what the various
22:41
components of water are. And that can be used, you know,
22:44
by the government, that can be used by the industry, by the
22:47
municipalities, And that happens in a real time basis.
22:50
In fact, the, the founder of the company is a lady called Meena
22:54
Sankaran. She's so inspiring.
22:57
I mean, she's seen ups and downs and she's just, she's, I mean,
23:02
she embodies everything that a founder should be, right?
23:05
There's passion, there is the capacity to be able to be
23:09
emotionally resilient, to take the good but the bad.
23:12
And she really is, you know what a, what are called a role model
23:15
for and, and if she had a lot more time, I'd have asked her
23:19
again, advisor and a mentor to a lot of the other founders.
23:21
But she embodies what a good founder would be like.
23:24
The other companies called Akima, which does what keto's
23:28
does for water is what they do for for air.
23:32
They work very closely with the with the government.
23:35
They've got a contract with a government of California.
23:39
So again, it goes back into how you extend in a human capacity.
23:43
So it's about physical. That's also for the environment
23:46
that, you know, we as human beings operate in.
23:49
How about the last one? I'll ask you about the AI
23:51
enabled hardware that makes the workplace safer.
23:55
We're just talking about like more robotics.
23:57
So it's picking up heavy things? Or is this something else?
24:00
And that's what we're looking at at at now.
24:02
So you know, one of the thesis we have is, you know, earlier
24:05
the soph Anthony was built for built for the existing hardware,
24:10
right? And there was severe limitations
24:12
in terms of what the hardware can do.
24:14
But now with AI, the ability of software to be able to direct
24:19
hardware to do different stuff has increased many fold, but the
24:23
hardware hasn't kept up. So what we like are those
24:26
companies that are building hardware to suit and to be able
24:31
to leverage on the phenomenal AI software that they have, right?
24:34
So we call it and you know, it's a term used by the industry as
24:38
well, either software for hardware, hardware for software.
24:41
So those are the companies we're looking at now because, you
24:44
know, I believe the the ability to be able to build in a
24:48
hardware to the software is very recent.
24:50
I would say it's about the last 9 or 12 months.
24:52
So it's something we're looking at right now.
24:54
But I mean, let's take companies like Apptronics or Agility.
24:59
You know that I'm making difficult work in in the
25:02
logistic centers done by robots rather than that people, right?
25:07
I mean lifting heavy boxes so and so forth.
25:09
And there are companies that are looking at I'll give an example
25:15
when ships come in into the port until date, you had a lot of
25:20
people that used to you know, where the the gear they used to
25:23
go submersed just to clean the the bottom of the hull because
25:27
they have so much of, you know, guck on it.
25:31
It, you know, keeps it lower. It takes a lot of fuel, but yet
25:33
people doing that and it is dangerous because that would be
25:36
there for a lot longer periods of time.
25:38
Now you have people building submersibles that do the same
25:41
job, right? So and you could think about
25:45
window cleaning and and skyscraper.
25:47
I mean, those are dangerous jobs.
25:48
If you can have, you know, tools or robots that can take off the
25:54
difficult and I would say dangerous work, then we'd like
25:57
to look at that. And so when we're talking about
26:00
robotics, a lot of these sound like they're probably not in a
26:03
humanoid form. It's more, I don't know, like in
26:07
some cases it's like an arm that picks up something heavy or
26:10
maybe like a couple of arms or plier looking things.
26:14
Is that right? So I, I think humanoids is the,
26:18
the most logical evolution and you've got some phenomenal
26:22
companies that are doing some amazing stuff out there.
26:24
We recently saw a company that is, that's building tactile
26:28
feeling, right. So for example, you've got arms,
26:31
but it doesn't feel, doesn't feel pressure, it doesn't feel
26:34
objects and it can see and they're building that they that
26:37
they can attach to robotic arms. So you can feel the pressure, be
26:41
it in, you know, so for example, if you are in grocery stores and
26:44
you're picking from the warehouse into retail stores,
26:47
just to be able to feel the pressure of how hard they should
26:50
catch a tomato versus a pineapple, right?
26:53
So and or maybe even for home care, a robotic hand with
26:58
tactile feel can know how much pressure to put on on patients
27:03
or for the age. So it's getting there.
27:05
You know, the the current form of humanoid robots are still
27:09
slow, right? If you see some of the videos,
27:12
it's getting there. I think the hardware is there a
27:15
lot faster than where the multimodal software has come.
27:18
So it's an evolution. So we will get there.
27:20
Now whether it'll be in every home, we don't know.
27:22
It'll get there. But yes, still such time.
27:25
I believe it'll be individual pieces of the human anatomy that
27:29
will will find the use case, you know, like prosthetics I think
27:34
will be something that we'll see very, very quickly that runs on
27:37
AI and tactile, you know, again, evolution through human rights.
27:41
So doing what you do, Sunil, you get to have a view into just all
27:47
kinds of cool things that are happening, all kinds of amazing
27:50
innovations. As you think about all that,
27:53
whether there it's in your portfolio currently, something
27:56
you're looking at or etcetera, what's the most mind blowing
28:00
thing that's within call it a year or two of being available
28:05
that would be fun to talk about? I mean, and there's so many,
28:10
every time you meet a founder, you know, you, they, they do
28:13
something and say something to the building that just
28:15
completely blows your mind. You know, we are diligencing a
28:19
company that can can predict cancer five years before it
28:28
does, right. And, and you know, I think all
28:32
of us have somebody in our family that's got an uncle that,
28:35
you know, unfortunately, you know, lost his life to cancer.
28:39
Most of us know somebody that lost life to cancer.
28:41
And you know, it's, it just seems that we were not moving
28:43
fast enough to be able to get there.
28:45
So the fact that they can do that and they have they've
28:49
proved it across in a 250 case case study.
28:51
So it's it is, it is very, very real.
28:54
So the impact that can have even from a cost perspective is
28:57
massive, right? So that really, really excited
29:00
about that. Then there's, you know, there's
29:03
one entrepreneur that we had spoken to that, you know, has
29:08
created this AI avatar that you can get on your phone because,
29:13
you know, loneliness when you grow older is a real thing,
29:15
leads to depression, at least a shorter lifespan.
29:18
And because that avatar has the ability to be able to see,
29:22
speak, store data, speak to, and it responds in real time based
29:26
on what it's seeing and hearing. That's are you feeling OK?
29:30
Would you like to go out? Can I book something for you?
29:32
Right. So that has a real impact.
29:35
And the other field of AI they'll be really looking at is
29:37
something called causal AI, which has the ability to be able
29:40
to take in huge loads of data, synthesize it and predict what
29:46
will happen and help you make those decisions, right.
29:48
So we're now at a stage where AI agents can help you do the work.
29:52
But we're getting to a stage where you can have, yeah, agents
29:55
that tell you what you should be doing and if you don't do this,
29:59
what the impact is. And they can have Intel and
30:03
that'll refine itself. But the ability to be able to
30:06
make good decisions or, you know, aid the human endeavor to
30:09
be able to make more effective decisions is is phenomenal.
30:13
I mean, it can have such a significant change if you apply
30:16
in the field of architecture, the way we build buildings, the
30:20
field of medicine, you know, out there in, in, in the field for,
30:24
I mean, there's the applications for decision based AI is massive
30:30
decision based AI. When, when are we going to see
30:33
that and people already building?
30:35
It people and I think the biggest problem we have right
30:39
now, Anthony, is you've got so much of data, but it's not
30:43
necessarily structured for AI to accurately read and learn on
30:48
right. So there's a massive investment
30:50
that each one of us needs to make as an organization, you
30:53
know, you know, ask people to be able to clean up the data and
30:56
structure the data so that when you run AI on it or any
31:01
technology has the ability to synthesize the data in the in in
31:04
the right ability. There's a garbage in garbage
31:06
out. One of the issues with AI right
31:08
now is the fact that if there any biases in the data, it
31:13
assumes that biases to be fact based reality and that that's
31:17
what you want. And so we need to try and make
31:19
sure that when when we define clean up, it's only about
31:22
putting data in the right columns, making sure they're no
31:24
empty columns, but the fact that their data reflects who you are
31:28
and what you want as an organization, and then you let
31:32
AI on it. So I think that's the biggest
31:34
challenge B face. The technology is there.
31:37
It's all about inferences, A to BB to C throw the data.
31:42
So I want to hear more about the cancer.
31:43
Detection is this specific types of cancer that it works on, is
31:48
it across a broad range and when will that tech actually be
31:53
available for doctors to use? And so right now they're.
31:57
Focusing on breast and lung cancer, but you know, it depends
32:02
upon how well you train your model, right?
32:04
So you, you literally need to put in significant amount of
32:07
work to see what scans said earlier in existing patients and
32:12
why they were not diagnosed till date.
32:15
And so you, you have to see that all A5 year period.
32:18
So I think a significant amount of work goes in terms of
32:21
extending that use skills, because what they're essentially
32:23
doing is then taking the list of, you know, patients that have
32:27
been afflicted with that specific type of cancer, going
32:31
back through the entire medical history and saying, so why was
32:34
it not picked up five years back?
32:37
What do the scans look like? Let's go to the scans.
32:39
And then you teach your AI saying this is, you know, how it
32:43
was missed. And then you need to start doing
32:45
it across gender, race, ethnicity, age, as if you want
32:49
this to be a tool that doctors can rely on, you need to be able
32:53
to get the entire source. And again, we know that health
32:57
data is very difficult to get through, right?
32:58
It is. There were a few players that
33:00
have the data. People don't save the data from,
33:02
you know, their own health data, you know, for the previous five
33:05
years. So again, it comes back to data.
33:07
The technology to learn and implement is available and so
33:11
the way that it would. Ultimately work is by being able
33:14
to identify signs of cancer earlier in some sort of scan, an
33:19
MRI for example, Correct. So for example, if you see.
33:22
You know, a lump that might be missed or maybe there's a
33:25
there's a deviation and deformation somewhere that might
33:28
not be picked up or might be ignored as just something as a
33:30
part of it. And the other one, Anthony, is,
33:34
you know, because of we have, we have a litigious societies for
33:37
some, a lot of us, you know, doctors prefer to send a lot of
33:42
people for CD scan even when they don't need it, right.
33:45
And you know, going through ACD scan has an impact on the body.
33:49
So one of the other use cases is the people who don't need it
33:53
should not be going through ACD scan, right?
33:56
Or should not be going through that that process, invasive or
33:59
otherwise. So then you're also one is
34:02
detect early, but also make sure you're not sending the wrong
34:04
people. So it, it reduces the pressure
34:06
on insurance and reduces the pressure on, you know, our, our
34:10
medical establishment because there's just so many people
34:12
through the pipeline. So just got several use cases.
34:16
So let's shift gears. A little bit and I want to talk
34:19
about the membership model that you have at Plum alley tell me
34:23
how that works so we. We've got about more than 200
34:28
members and these are paying members, you know, they again,
34:31
the payment is not as much for the, not for the opportunity,
34:37
but but as a show of commitment, right.
34:39
Otherwise, you know, we do a lot for our members.
34:41
So we've got about 200 plus being members and what we show
34:44
them is about 8012 investments per year and then they can
34:48
choose to invest and not to invest in those specific
34:51
opportunities. But one of the reasons we do
34:53
membership it, it started with us wanted to get people into the
34:58
venture capital ecosystem. So large part of the focus is on
35:01
thought leadership and in terms of sharing knowledge.
35:04
So even when we show a company, what we do is we get the founder
35:07
on call to talk about the market, talk about the
35:09
technology. We get experts for, you know,
35:13
thought leadership sessions and knowledge transfer.
35:16
It started off as getting people interested in venture and making
35:20
sure that they have the access to the latest technological
35:25
development. But you know, and this is the
35:28
beauty of of karma, right? You do you do right things,
35:30
right things happen by you. What's that?
35:32
What that's evolving to Anthony is a set of people that believe
35:36
in the journey that we're on and that want to support the
35:39
journey. So now, you know, they've
35:41
invested in our in our traditional funds.
35:44
They some of the best companies that we've got have come as as a
35:47
reference from existing members. And because all these members
35:51
have been successful entrepreneurs, obey senior
35:53
individuals in very large organizations, they become a
35:56
ready pool of advisors for our founders and for us when we're
36:00
diligence and company. That's why it's, it's morphed
36:03
into, you know, this, this family that's always there for
36:07
each other, but we've not lost our purpose.
36:09
The idea is to share as much information as possible and make
36:12
sure that they've got access to the latest information on
36:15
technology in terms of recent events, what the risks are, what
36:19
the upside are. So that's, that's what the model
36:21
looks like right now. So your.
36:24
Members, they're paying some sort of a monthly or annual fee
36:27
to have access to the network and the information that you're
36:30
sharing. And then they make their own
36:32
individual decisions about which companies that they want to
36:34
invest in. And if I understand correctly,
36:37
at the same time you have your own fund that you've raised and
36:40
Plum Alley is making their own decisions as well on how to
36:44
deploy that capital. Yeah.
36:45
So in in the membership. Model we diligence the
36:48
opportunity, right, so they and we they invest in those so we
36:51
never show something that we've not got conviction.
36:53
And so we do the investment memory diligence it and we offer
36:56
it. We do about those what 8 or 12
36:59
every year. And then we showed all our
37:01
members and you know, they have the option then of investing
37:05
those companies should they choose or, you know, there's
37:07
there's no obligation to invest, but in a sizeable portion of the
37:12
individual invest. And also in the we've also
37:14
lowered the check size so that those opportunities are
37:17
available for a broader set of people.
37:19
And, and everything grows by word of mouth, you know, so we
37:23
don't really pitch membership. It's one member speaking to
37:25
somebody else, you know, they're friends and then they want to
37:28
sign up. So we've seen a significant
37:29
growth in membership. We can you see new sign ups and
37:32
as an only show company that that, you know, our members lie
37:37
on each call that we have, you get 10 new members joining us as
37:40
well. So it's, it's, it's, you know,
37:43
it's pretty steep growth. Can we talk about numbers?
37:46
At all in terms of like what's the membership fee or what's the
37:49
minimum check size sure so we. The membership fee is only about
37:53
2500 per year for what we call the base membership and that
37:57
really goes to everybody because it has a, has a cap of $100,000
38:02
in terms of total investment. Your minimum check size, you
38:05
know, can be you know, $20,000 and up.
38:07
So it's a poor company. The next membership level is in
38:11
a 5000 where again it allows two people to come together or
38:16
individually can invest up to in 1/4 of $1,000,000.
38:20
And the third is what we call entity level membership, right,
38:23
where you can invest up to 1,000,000 in each X size and you
38:27
can be a family office that invests in it.
38:28
So we've got quite a few people that have energy level
38:30
memberships where these are family offices or you know, are
38:34
very high under the individual that invest over a period of a
38:37
year, you know, pretty much, you know, close to a million or more
38:40
than a million or a course of the year.
38:42
So we've got three membership levels.
38:44
The access that they have, the thought leadership is exactly
38:47
the same. It's only the kind of, you know,
38:51
the entity that they come from and the amount that they want to
38:54
invest per year that changes. That's it.
38:57
Now you've been investing yourself.
38:58
For eight years or so now, how is your investment strategy or
39:03
thesis evolved over the years so I will.
39:08
So I, I learned by the school of Hard Knocks, Anthony Rae.
39:11
So I, I got quite a few wrong, But you know, I, I think I, I
39:15
started with, I'd like to believe I'm a good judge of
39:18
character. And I started being enthralled
39:21
by, you know, the stories that, you know, founders said.
39:24
And the irony is I come from a very fundamental investment
39:29
background, right? That's what my career has been
39:30
about. You see the fundamental, you see
39:32
the, the financials, you talk about them.
39:35
And I think some of my early investments, I just want to go
39:39
out there and I wanted to help that found out because I was
39:42
just so sold into his dream that nothing else mattered.
39:46
So I think personally, you know, the, the, there's been a certain
39:52
level of maturity in terms of what you know, I personally look
39:55
at. So right now and I look at my
39:57
diligence sheet and I think it's a lot of the stuff I I try and
40:02
think through internally, but I've got about.
40:04
You know, 137 questions that I asked myself internally.
40:07
Have you checked this? Do they have a Co founder
40:10
agreement? You know what does if it looks
40:12
like target market, what does the persona look like?
40:15
Is ARR really ARR? Will the same person come and
40:18
pay next year as well? What size the contract?
40:20
So I think I've become or we've become a lot more mature in
40:24
terms of you know what we want to check the founders who
40:27
remains the base. The purpose is still important,
40:31
but I mean the firm as such has made about 70 investments
40:36
including follow on and about 38 companies.
40:38
So you, you learn some stuff through that, you know, and.
40:42
I get to lean on. You know the the other two
40:45
partners, we've got a phenomenal people in the investment
40:47
company. So it I think it takes a village
40:50
to make a good decision and I think they've got a village
40:52
around us. So tell us about the village.
40:55
Who are the folks that you work with?
40:56
So we've got 2. Managing partners, You know,
40:59
Deborah and Amatekarge in the camber a very long experience.
41:03
You know, I mean, Avantika has, you know, been businesses taken
41:07
few companies up to IPO and she's an entrepreneur by heart,
41:10
both of folks fifty O 50. Then you've got, you know, a
41:15
young gentleman who's in the investment company but has been
41:17
working in the in the venture capital space.
41:20
We have a lot of advisors, both technical advisors that are able
41:25
to diligence the technology and the core to check whether it
41:28
does what it does. And then we've also got people
41:31
in the industry that can assess like we do stuff in
41:34
cybersecurity. So we've got people in the
41:36
industry that can assess, but there's an actual market for it
41:38
who the key decision makers are. And I come from an operation and
41:43
financial dividends perspective. I say, does does this
41:47
organization have the bones, the structure to be able to be an
41:51
organization that is that can sustain over a period of time,
41:55
right? Are they asking themselves the
41:56
right question? What is the make up of the
41:59
founding team? The leadership team would have
42:01
the right people for this point in time.
42:03
So I come into the diligence process to make sure that the
42:06
investing in a company that is building something that will
42:09
endure. Let's shift gears again here.
42:14
Sunil, because we've talked a lot about, you know, certainly
42:17
you've mentioned ups and downs and some struggles, but mostly
42:21
the picture that I get is a lot of up and to the right for Sunil
42:24
Rao. I'd like to hear about one of
42:27
the harder times, a big challenge that you've had to
42:29
overcome in your life, and how you got through that and what
42:32
you learned going through the process.
42:39
I'm not sure if I'm, if I block it out or whether you know, but
42:42
I, I think, I think the, so my dad was a bureaucrat, but you
42:46
know, as as part of his role, our job is to move every three
42:49
years or three to five years. And you know, India is a, it's a
42:53
massive country and the minute you move states, it's different
42:57
people, different languages, different food, different
42:59
school. So for me, the entire journey
43:01
was so I didn't feel like I had roots.
43:06
And I think what I had, the way that I think you cope as a young
43:11
kid is either you become a new person wherever you go, or you
43:18
have a new identity just to be able to cope with, you know, the
43:22
surroundings, environment and to be able to make new friends.
43:25
I think the upside is I know how to make friends easily.
43:29
I can get into the room, work the room.
43:30
It's helped me, but I didn't later on in the life, what I had
43:34
to ask myself is who am I really?
43:37
Because with every move you're trying to fit and you're trying
43:41
to pretend, and then you build this persona and that you have.
43:45
So for me, I think some of the formative viewers had
43:48
significant upside, but stuff that I had to correct for late
43:51
on my life is to get a good foundation of who am I, what do
43:55
I like and that and that came on pretty, pretty late in life.
44:00
I would say that that did not hit me till the time I was in my
44:03
early 30s. But I mean that I would say is
44:07
because it sits so deep subconsciously, I think it has
44:11
taken a lot of work to be able to build what I call
44:14
authenticity and everything. I'd like to believe everything I
44:17
do right now comes from a place of attended city because I know
44:20
who I am, what I want, what I like.
44:21
But I think that journey has taken a very, very long time.
44:26
You know, again, I was very close to my uncle Lupas from,
44:30
you know, from cancer. So I've dealing with, you know,
44:34
personal losses of people that are very close to.
44:37
I think it takes takes some time to get over.
44:40
And I think professionally, I think one of the hardest things
44:45
was in, I think very early on, I had the option to be able to be
44:54
a trader on the FX desk and I applied for it.
44:58
And I think I, I, I was the last three and everything and I
45:01
didn't get it. And I was again, because, you
45:04
know, this fixed mindset, Oh my God, I'm really not good.
45:08
My, I'm not talented. I can never make it in banking
45:10
and stuff. And in hindsight it was a good
45:14
thing, but took me a very long time.
45:15
I thought that was a massive failure on my part and not
45:18
getting that role because I thought it was, it was a perfect
45:20
role for me. There's obviously a massive
45:22
monetary upside to that. But in hindsight, you know, I
45:27
realize and it comes back to authenticity.
45:30
I'm not the kind of person that monitors sit behind a computer
45:33
and not engage with clients, with people.
45:36
And I'd have been very unhappy if I'd taken that role.
45:40
So I'm glad I did not. But again, you know, I mean,
45:42
hindsight is 20, but I have no regrets for everything that's
45:45
happened or the decision that I've taken.
45:48
So what do you? Think happened in your early
45:50
30s, Sunil, that triggered that kind of existential questioning
45:54
that you were just talking about.
45:57
Yeah, I don't, I don't think there was one specific trigger,
46:05
Anthony, But I realized that, you know, for a very long time I
46:09
was getting, I was, I, you know, I'm a very calm person by
46:16
nature, but I could see myself having road rage.
46:22
I could see myself biting and I mean, going at people being
46:26
aggressive, you know, I could see myself being very harsh and
46:30
people that were close to me that are trying to support me.
46:33
So I knew something was wrong. I, I woke up angry and I slept
46:36
angry, you know what I mean? And then by and so things were
46:40
not working And you know, I was, I think there were few decisions
46:43
that I made personally that came from a place of need rather than
46:48
want. So I've made some wrong
46:51
decisions personally in life as well.
46:52
So I think all of that, but I think the switch came is when I
46:55
read this book called the power of now by a cartel.
47:00
It talks about the ego. It talks about mindfulness or
47:04
that's you didn't call it mindfulness then, but that it is
47:06
it is mindfulness. I think that book is I remember
47:10
reading that book. It was my God, early what, 2010
47:17
eleven, something like that. And I think that was a switch.
47:20
I said this is not right, something is not working.
47:24
And I think the arts after that that I started thinking about
47:26
meditation, etcetera. But I would say that that book
47:29
that I read was the one that helped me think that something
47:32
needs to change. So you were asking.
47:35
Yourself the question who am IA lot at that time?
47:39
How would you answer that question now?
47:41
Who are you? Sunil Rao So.
47:45
I'm, I'm a person that, you know, believes that each each
47:49
one is on a personal journey. And my personal journey is to
47:53
try and find out everything that I'm capable of doing and all the
47:58
gifts that I've been given. But my journey, it is, it is not
48:02
validated by what people say. It's not benchmarked against
48:05
what people do. And as I go on, on that journey,
48:08
I want to be able to make sure that, you know, I spread love,
48:12
I'm able to give back and I'm able to take care of the people
48:17
that, that have always been there for me.
48:20
So it's, it's a very personal journey.
48:22
And that's why I'm, I think on a daily basis, I ask myself the
48:25
same and every question, right? You know, I take the subway
48:28
every morning, love people watching, but you always have
48:31
instances subway where maybe somebody is rude, maybe said
48:34
somebody said something and you look back and say, does it
48:38
define me? Is this me as a person?
48:40
So I think I'm a I'm a person that's on a journey of self
48:44
discovery and always will be that values good people, that
48:49
values training, values good people.
48:51
I think it's very difficult to be a good person in this day and
48:53
age that values good people and wants to contribute back do to
48:59
everything that I've gained. So I feel very privileged and I
49:02
want to find a way to be able to get back.
49:04
What's your superpower, Sunil emotion resilience.
49:12
You can throw anything at me. I'll keep going back.
49:14
You know, I think that's one and I self growth.
49:18
I'm reading all the time, you know, and I think humility.
49:24
You know, I have a firm belief that almost everybody that I
49:27
come across has something that they can teach me.
49:32
Then I always try and carry myself with, you know, grace and
49:37
I and I always treat people with respect.
49:39
But I think humility and this keenness learn I think would be
49:43
my superpower. Say more about that.
49:45
Keenness to learn that self growth aspect.
49:48
How do you approach that on a daily basis so.
49:52
You know, I meditate so, you know, I'm a huge believer in the
49:54
fact that, you know, the rituals that you have redefine, you
50:01
know, your, your journey and your part.
50:02
So you're who you, you're going to be in 10 years.
50:05
Time will be defined by the rituals you have today, right?
50:08
What do you do on a daily basis? What are your habits?
50:11
So I, I meditate everyday. So that really helps me center
50:15
myself. And that's a very important part
50:17
of, you know, my journey. I, I do some form of exercise
50:22
everyday. You know, I, I've just picked up
50:24
cycling. I enjoyed that for 15 years, I
50:27
did martial arts, enjoyed that tool for that now.
50:30
But as you go to the gym, so you know, taking care of my health
50:33
is very important. You know, surrounding myself
50:37
with people that I care about is important part of my journey and
50:41
I'm learning all the time. So if I'm looking for
50:44
challenges, difficult challenge to solve because when I do that,
50:49
you know, I believe who you are really comes out.
50:52
It's not when you do something easy or something that you're
50:54
good at, they realize who you are or what are capable of.
50:57
My daily goal is to find something that I find
51:01
challenging. Do irrespective, you know,
51:02
there's no life example. When I left banking for this,
51:06
you know, you had an executive assistant, you had somebody
51:08
doing this and now, you know, I'm picking up the paper and
51:12
I'm, I mean, it's crazy. It's stuff that I used to do in,
51:15
in my early teens. My first three years of banking
51:17
is what I'm doing now. And that's OK.
51:19
But you know, because it gives me the option to do stuff that
51:22
pushes me towards my skill limit.
51:24
So I take an opportunity every day to learn from people and
51:28
from stuff that I'm allowed to do.
51:31
What is the future of Plum? Alley look like what's coming
51:34
around the corner that you're really excited about so I I.
51:38
I generally believe, you know, I think that AI is a
51:42
transformative technology, but AI is a tool.
51:47
And if again, if you know you've, you've not read this and
51:50
you know your listeners haven't, there is this video cast and
51:54
podcast by a gentleman called Mogadat is the chief business
51:58
officer for Google. This video cast is it's called
52:01
Diary of Aceo and he talks about how AI can be can lead to a
52:06
utopian society or dystopian society, right.
52:09
So which is, and it's like with any tool but AI, such a powerful
52:12
tool, it just becomes that much more real.
52:16
So our purpose of investing in technologies that support the
52:21
human endeavour, I think it's very, very important.
52:24
And I think we need more people, more venture capitalists, more
52:26
allocators that invest in technology with purpose.
52:29
So what's coming up is we need to raise 100 million so we have
52:35
the capacity to be able to invest in founders and solutions
52:39
that are human centric. I think it's very important.
52:42
I think everybody that's raising for a purpose driven, you know,
52:46
technology hopefully gets funded very quickly.
52:49
We want to find phenomenal founders.
52:51
You know, we want to find phenomenal technology and us
52:55
being able to do that, I think would see success for us.
52:57
And I'm sure all of us grow in that process, right.
53:00
So for me, success of, of Plum Ali Ventures would be both a
53:05
professional success and a person success because I know
53:07
I'll, I'll go through it right. So we we'll now be meeting with
53:11
a different set of investors and capital allocators and the
53:13
ability to be able to share the conviction that we have maybe
53:17
we'll need made a change or will will need I need a different
53:21
skill set. So I know and grow through the
53:22
process. So if you can succeed
53:26
professionally, then I know that I've I've grown personally as
53:29
well. Who do you?
53:31
Most admire Sunil No apart from family.
53:38
Anthony and family, the wife. And, you know, I admire traits
53:46
in people. I'll give you an example.
53:48
Like, for example, you know, when you look at sports, admire
53:52
Djokovic. I don't think he's got as much
53:55
talent as all the other number ones have had.
53:58
But his mental fortitude and his love for the game, in my view,
54:02
is unparalleled. And I take that from that.
54:05
Then when you look at the Obamas, you know, the grace with
54:09
which they carry themselves. There's nothing to do with
54:10
politics, but just the grace that they carry themselves.
54:13
There's something that I'd like to imbibe.
54:16
And what I really admire is people who push themselves
54:21
beyond what they think the capacity is.
54:24
Every time I go to the gym, when I, when I see athletes, you
54:27
know, they're running to the last, you know, in a, when you
54:29
have the New York Marathon and the last few miles that they're
54:32
running, they're pushing themselves.
54:33
I admire that. I admire people who are trying
54:36
to do good because I know how difficult it is one to be a good
54:42
person and want to believe that you can be successful being a
54:46
good person. So if I had as of tomorrow, I
54:48
hit the jackpot. What I really want to do is
54:51
build an ecosystem around good people and and make them believe
54:55
that listen, you can be successful being a good person
54:57
because I believe that's possible.
54:58
So I admire people that push their own personal boundaries,
55:02
emotion, physical and then my people, you know, who are value
55:07
based and want to do good and be good.
55:09
I think I admire those people. How much of?
55:12
Who you are today, Sunil, do you think is a result of your
55:18
upbringing with by your parents versus who you've become sort of
55:24
since you left the nest? I think all of us, so I, I
55:32
credit a lot to my upbringing, but I'm also fighting a lot of
55:36
my upbringing. You know what I mean?
55:37
Like I think all of us do that right.
55:39
There's a lot of, I think stuff that we need to work through.
55:42
There's all the stuff that's helped us grows up.
55:45
What I've learned is I was, you know, I was, I was brought up by
55:51
a lot of love. So, you know, I've, I've learned
55:53
to love people quite easily. So that's, that's a good thing
55:56
because when you love people, I've learned that from
55:58
upbringing. I've also learned the value of
56:00
hard work and being organized. So I would say I was at 50% of
56:07
who I am as credit to my upbringing and the other 50% is
56:12
just blood sweat and tears and self work.
56:18
Just got one more question. For you today, Sunil.
56:20
But before I ask it, I want to do just a couple of things.
56:23
First of all, Sunil's given us permission to give out his
56:26
personal e-mail address. If you want to reach out.
56:29
First of all, their website is Plum Alley and that's ALLEY, so
56:34
plumalley.co. And then you can reach out to
56:38
Sunil directly at Sunil, the spelling of his first name,
56:42
Sunil at plumalley.co. And we'll have that for you
56:46
folks in the show notes also. As a reminder.
56:50
If you want to get more employees access to benefits
56:52
that won't hurt them financially and carries a financial upside
56:55
for your company, reach out to Add back benefits.com.
56:58
And finally, if you'll take just a moment to leave us a comment
57:01
or review on your favorite podcast app, we will be forever
57:04
grateful to you. So last question for you, Sunil.
57:08
A year from now, you and I reconnect.
57:10
You're celebrating. Something big.
57:12
What's that big thing you hope to be celebrating one year from
57:16
today? The the 100 million raise for
57:20
the new fund and me having learned Spanish, which I've been
57:24
at for quite some time now. So why Spanish?
57:27
In particular, so I I. Regret I was when I was in the
57:31
Middle East, I regret not learning Arabic.
57:34
And I realize if you want, you know, I, I like connecting with
57:37
people and if you connect with people in their own language,
57:40
then you get a lot more out of them, right?
57:42
So, for example, you get to know them at a deeper level.
57:44
And given the fact that I think Spanish is as widely spoken
57:49
language is English in, in this country, I, I want to be able to
57:52
connect with people that have Spanish as a first language,
57:55
right? So I, I made that mistake.
57:57
I wish I'd learned Arabic if I was in China, I would have made
58:00
an effort to learn in a Mandarin if I was somewhere else.
58:04
So I I want to connect. Learning the language in which
58:07
people think, I think is the best way to connect with them.
58:11
Sunil Rao from Plum Alley. Ventures, I want to be the first
58:14
to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us
58:16
today. I really appreciate it.
58:18
It's been a pleasure, Anthony. Thank you so much.
58:19
For having me folks, that's a wrap on another.
58:22
Episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
58:24
Thanks for learning with us today.